I suspect Expanse fans in particular might enjoy our original science fiction Audio Drama; The Sojourn. Check it out here! www.thesojournaudiodrama.com/
I loved how they showed off just how well built the Donnager is, every deck was comprimised, every compartment had likely been holed and she'd lost one of her main guns. Even despite all that she kept firing all her remaining weapons right up until the whole ship was torn apart. A beautiful display of what those ships are capable of.
given the MCRN ship's abilities to swing WAY above their weight class(at least on things they can see) I wouldn't be surprised if they were thinking "there is only 15? of them, if those UNN ships can take at least 1 or 2 each we still got this" right up till she got stabbed(torpedoed) in the back
"Held together by sheer middle finger energy." Truly the best description for the Donnager Class! I only hope we get to see this ship again fight in future seasons!
Also, when the Dewalt fires its torpedo salvo, the torpedoes just eject radially off of the ship without dropping back. The Dewalt’s drive was out and it was just drifting, so the torps just fly off the side and maintain the same speed as the ship. All the other torps eject and drop back behind the ship before the drives kick in, because at the time of firing, all the other ships are still under thrust and accelerating away from the torps after they're dropped.
Wasn't the Dewalt Ashford's ship? The one Drummer said during salvage that they'd compensate the lack of cannons with a boatload of torpedoes? If so, that's some good continuity right there.
@@sergioaccioly5219 The Tynan was Ashford's ship from Season 4. DeWalt and Mowteng were Drummer's original ships. But yes all the Tynan has left are its missiles since it's implied that Marco stripped it of its Martian PDCs. Also in the vein of "Good continuity," in season 4, you get to see the Tynan fire its PDCs. When they are fired, they make the Martian PDC sound like the PDCs on the Roci, Serrio Mal and other MCRN ships. If you listen carefully, UNN PCDs make a different sound.
I love the consistency in martian ship designs, the heavy frigate was exactly what I had envisioned a ship of it's size might look like with a decent amount of creativity.
That heavily relies on the technological assumptions of the setting(s) in question. For example, for a future-history setting that I'm working on, most ships are either made up of hexagons, octagons, triangles, and cylinders as a general rule for shapes. To give an example, one of the main factions (the successor to the UN called SolGov whose armed forces are called SolForce) uses hexagons as its main spaceship shape with most of its turrets being some variation of trapezoidal prisms. Armaments are a fun assortment of automatics ranging from missiles (usually armed with some sort of plasma, APHE, or nuclear warhead with PD missiles being fitted with AHEAD warheads, and most of these missiles are housing multiple missiles each) to electromotive (i.e. railguns and coilguns) to conventional directed energy (i.e. lasers, particle beams, and, oddly enough, Spheromark-based 'pulse' weapons) to UNconventional directed energy (i.e. fusion cannons and anti-shield weapons with the odd matter disruptor and meson weapon). Yeah, it gets fun. Oh, and in terms of detection, the rule of thumb is 'hide in mass shadows while making sure you destroy every sensor node' because of things like cross-spectrum LIDAR and Quantum Radar (i.e. stealth doesn't work, but I still model it due to the local setting's armor properties) make stealth as we know it obsolete alongside things like sensor fusion making sensor density go to the 'yes' category. So that stealth meteorite rain maneuver is useless...
The ships of 'The Expanse' are still 'ships (i.e. current ocean going appearance) in space'; effectively, a huge stack of shipping containers stacked on end vertically with a rocket at the bottom of the stack. Every deck is a tiny space and an endless stairwell. Surely real spaceships, assuming the non-existence of artificial gravity - which seems pretty reasonable to me, will be short fat cylinders with the main drive on the end of the cylinder. This will allow larger floor spaces, a limited number of floors (levels), and a spin induced artificial gravity when not under power.
@@paulcompton7861 Warships are built around their propulsion and weapon systems. Everything else is an afterthought. Spacious floor plans and crew amenities are not a priority.
2 more things to note that i absolutely love: When any of the PDC turrets fire, you can actually see either a little RCS thruster or directed exhaust of the projectile shooting out the rear of the PDC to compensate for the projectiles inertia. Because of course without this, every PDC would be like a tiny thruster pushing the ship around. Second thing, the helmets in the expanse have lights on the inside. A tradition that for the longest time has infuriated realism nerds like SpaceDock and me. But in the Expanse, the lights are oriented so they don’t shine in the eyes of the people wearing the suit. This way there’s little to no reflection created on the inside vizor by the helmet lights!! Never thought I’d find a show I love more then Star Trek, but the Expanse has done it! Rest in peace, Alex.
Not a lore expert, but if Giorgio is right - and I suspect they are - the IRL term for that kind of "cannon" is a "recoilless rifle". They were very popular for a short time during and after WW2 as light anti-tank weapons, but today they're almost exclusively used as infantry anti-tank/fortification weapons. I've always thought they would be a good choice for amphibious armored vehicles and space warships due to the minimal recoil.
@Giorgio Alamia In the books it's explained (although I can't remember where exactly) the PDCs use small thrusters to compensate for recoil. You're correct in that hand weapons use self propelled munitions, but this is because the recoil fro, firing a bullet has allot more effect on a human then on a spaceship. And it wouldn't exactly be practical to use tiny thrusters on hand weapons. PDCs shoot so many rounds it'd be uneconomical to use high-tech rounds in them.
PDCs literally look like they're just recoilless. Pretty mature technology even today. Just put portion of gases through a nozzle at the back to compensate for recoil.
After watching Season 5 the first time, I immediately rewatched it. Those stealth coated micrometeoroids are shown in an earlier episode (I can’t remember which). One of the short “Marco Inaros on the bridge looking at holographic displays before a major scene” shows an arcing trajectory, about 90° to the ecliptic, that ends at the Ring. He’s preparing his forces to time their arrival with the meteoroids.
When I initially saw that I thought he was projecting a rendezvous course for the torpedo with the sample. (Assuming the sample got off the Zemeya somehow) Stealth coated micro meteors caught me completely off guard. Marco and those belters have been busy
@@rockomax2732 Yep. Filip destroyed the science ship to keep anyone from knowing about the broken up asteroid or it's destination. These are clearly those same ones.
"sheer middle finger energy" But think about it, the Roci is a ridiculously tough little ship, and it was designed by the same people, at the same time, and as part of the same project of integrated complementary ship designs as the Donnager class.
@@Marinealver its a sad thing that the Donnager class has a 100% death ratio for on screen appearances. but i guess if they werent destroyed in situations where they are massively out numbered the story wouldnt have progressed this far.
Gotta appreciate Drummer’s ability to take a look at the state of battle graphic and immediately recognize the best use for the torpedoes- swarm the PDCs to allow the Roci to sneak in for the kill.
@@elvisibra Well zemo, if i can cite the video makers here with "tightly timed events", otherwise i see and agree with your point. Sometimes (many times), the plot is stronger than gravity.
Can someone explain to me *why* that was the best use of the torpedoes instead of just killing the Koto outright? Because that was probably enough torpedoes to do it.
@@autumngottlieb3071 Because both ships had PDC defense grids that can take out torpedos until the PDC ammo runs out, but there is no defense against a railgun shot once it gets in range. The torpedos were to buy time for the Roci to get in range while Marco's ships are busy handling the torpedos. Maybe if they'd shot the torpedos from more angles they'd have gotten lucky and one would have gotten through, but that wasn't very likely.
reminds me the legend of HMS Hood.. when she was destroyed by the Bismark .. aparentlty as the front half was going down vertically one of the turrets fired before going underwater.. some say it could been an accidental explosion or triggering.. others their last middle finger at the german fleet
My favorite detail from the Ring battle - you can see when the Montenegro gets hit by micrometeorites, there's a brief moment when the capacitor is ruptured and you see electrical current arcing through the debris being flung away from the railgun. You can see it at 7:00 in this video.
Amazing spot, thanks for pointing that out. The VFX team working on that probably had to create a little system for that to work in a repeatable way, knowing that few people would see it but doing it anyway.
Sagarmatha translates to the head of the sky, sagar meaning sky, and matha meaning head. Although it could very well be the ocean's head. Because saagar translates to ocean, and the a could have been lost while writing a hindi word in the roman script.
Wow! What a great breakdown of the battles. You really picked out every detail we put in there...like every detail! Love that the fans enjoy those things and appreciate the support and enthusiasm. It's what drives us to keep trying to making these sequences better. Love these videos.
When I first started The Expanse, I wasn't sure about the hard science element, but it only took a few episodes for me to understand, appreciate and then ultimately fall in love with it. Combat is far more guttural and responsive than in other universes and makes it just that little more compelling.
It gained my admiration when they first geared up for battle into vac suits and depressurized the crew space. I got so much used to the sight of crew flying out of decompressing rooms in other sci-fi that it blew my mind... Like hell, you're supposed to do this forever!
The writers are sticklers for accuracy. A lot of stuff in Expanse that I have basically never seen in scifi before, but which should be in all scifi. Orbitals, retro-burns to slow down, no need for an ecliptic in space etc. Most movies and shows make space battles feel as if they are taking place on the surface of the sea or something.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 Ye the only show that bothered with any of that, at least partially was Galactica - the only other show that can somehow match Expanse's space battles despite being decades old. They also pioneered this awesome style of camera work which makes it look really fucking good even today, as it hides the imperfections well.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 What about artificial gravity? I mean, sure this appears to be the closest thing to Children of the Dead Earth: The Movie, but it doesn't seem to have a lot of Zero-G sequences and what's with the flashy explosions? Aren't they supposed to be nukes or something? CoaDE did nukes in space pretty nicely, even though it's much harder to convey the effect by the visual means than just "painting" a "mushroom cloud". I kind of tried quickly watching S1E01 here and there, but it appears to be full of agendas and "actors 2.0", so I decided to postpone it. This space battle breakdown here certainly instills more enthusiasm, but I wonder if I'll be able to make it all the way to S5... Not to mention, I really don't like seeing people *walk* and stand around inside a military vessel that is supposed to be realistic and relatively "near future".
@@getsideways7257 It has plenty of zero-g scenes all over the place. How they make artificial gravity in Expanse is either centrifugal for the stations or through acceleration in the smaller ships so the passengers are pulled towards the engine at 1g. When ships stop they always engage mag boots so they can stick to the floor.
Admiral Mehmet Harman had always considered himself a student of history. He’d never expected to be living in it. In the days since the apocalyptic strike on Earth, the scenes of whole cities ripped apart like paper, of tsunamis that filled half the sky, choking ash clouds and fields strewn with body bags, he’d felt as if he’d been living in a waking dream. ‘How had it come to this?’ he’d wondered aloud in the officer’s mess of the MCRN *Sagarmatha*. The other officers had stared at him as if he’d asked a stupid question, and then they’d all gone back to silently eating. Marco Inaros was the reason, and no-one wanted to look any further. But Mehmet couldn’t stop himself from asking *why*. At least he wasn’t on the *Tripoli* or *Montenegro*, the two Truman-class battleships escorting them. Mehmet happened to know that the *Montenegro’s* captain had grown up in Senegal. He’d tried to imagine what the UNN officer must have felt watching Dakar and the rest of the west African shared interest zone be reduced to dust, knowing that millennia of history and his entire family was gone forever. ‘Did we do wrong?’ It was a question that had come to Mehmet’s mind in the few hours of bunk time he managed to snatch between endless drills and tactical simulations. Their escort fleet had been withdrawn to protect the inner planets, leaving the *Donnager*\-class and the two *Truman*\-class escorts alone to guard the Ringspace. ‘Where did we go wrong?’ Mehmet knew his history. He understood that the system Earth and Mars built was not perfect. Humanity’s first forays into space had been driven by hope and desperation in equal measure - the climate shifts of the early twenty-first century, the economic stagnation that had gripped the UN, the yet more devastating crisis of fusion waste heat which crippled Earth’s already battered ecosystem - all had left the human race in a precarious position. Then had come Solomon Epstein and his drive, and with it Martian independence. No, it hadn’t been perfect. But the horrors of the past had faded - the crippling hunger and poverty that billions of Earthers lived under for centuries had all but disappeared, war between nations became a distant memory and Mars prospered. For most people, by the numbers, the System had become a safe and just place to live. It could have been so much worse. Mehmet had always believed in the dream of Mars, even as he understood that there would be losers and winners from its progress. In his heart he’d been glad that the OPA had achieved its independence. Their time had come, and the sooner humanity could put old hatreds aside, the better. He’d found himself replaying Marco Inaros’s broadcast, trying to imagine what had driven the man but in the end, he knew what his answer was. Inaros had to die, and anyone who stood with him deserved death as well. Mehmet had joined in the jubilation that spread among the UNN ships after news of the attack on Pallas station. He’d watched the videos of the Belters aboard that rock celebrating Marco’s crimes, celebrating the worst act of mass murder in history. Those on Pallas had made their choice. A deeper part of him felt discomfort at that thought, doubt that the attack on Pallas was just, but he’d quashed it. This was war. The Earthers hadn’t even tried to hide their glee. Mehmet had always believed in the dream of Mars, but every day that felt increasingly hollow. What did Mars stand for if there were a thousand new worlds and more to settle? He knew the corruption ran deeper than anyone in the Navy would admit and did his best to ignore the fact that he knew, to pretend that Mars still meant something, that they were unified and that the world they’d built was worth fighting for. It was - he had to believe it was. ***** The battle for the ring began without warning. Mehmet was seated on the bridge of the *Sagarmatha,* watching the vector lines of the approaching Free Navy fleet, the further-out cluster of MCRN reinforcements, when the collision radar screamed out a violent alert. There was no time to react before the impact came. Shudders ran the length of the massive Donnager-class battleship, and internal camera views showed streaks of hyperaccelerated dust penetrating their armoured skin, piercing corridors and equipment and the bodies of the crew. In the CIC, Mehmet and his officers were mercifully saved, their air seal remaining intact and insulating them from the damage to the rest of the ship. Gravity vanished in a moment, and Mehmet felt the sensation of freefall rise in his chest, a sensation uncomfortably like anxiety. “Drive offline, torpedo tubes are jammed,” the first officer reported. Mehmet shook his head, trying to clear his vision, and glanced at the terminal display. “Stealth coated,” he concluded. “We didn’t see the rocks till the last second." The first officer nodded. The comm system rebooted, showing the *Tripoli* and *Montenegro* \- sturdily built UNN vessels, still intact, drives also crippled. The Free Navy had launched a massive wave of torpedoes. “Launch torpedoes, PDCs to automatic,” he ordered, but the weapons officers had already taken the initiative. Even with stolen Martian technology, even with their drive crippled, the Free Navy should not have chosen to tangle with a *Donnager*\-class battleship. The *Sagarmatha* bared its teeth and struck back. The hull rang and shuddered as torpedoes left their tubes, the heavy boom of their two foehammer railguns distinguishable from the subsonic thrum of PDCs. They were flinging everything at the Free Navy, aiming to finish the battle quickly. The *Pella*, Inaros’s ship, was at the centre of the attacking cluster. That was their target. “Splash one,” the weapons officer announced, as a Free Navy ship - a light destroyer of MCRN design, blew apart under a high-yield nuclear detonation. Beside them, the UNN ships opened up with torpedoes. Mehmet suppressed a smile. A damaged Donnager-class, engine-less, would be the one to end the life of the greatest mass murderer in human history. He could be glad of that. Enemy torpedoes streaked inwards from all directions, and their PDCs fired, arcs shifting to compensate for damaged sections. They couldn’t manoeuvre, but they could still react with blinding speed. Railgun one overheated, and Mehmet diverted power to their second gun, placing slug after slug in the direction of the *Pella*, even knowing they were beyond close-quarters range. Keep them occupied, overwhelm them any way you can. “Incoming - ringspace,” the first officer announced. Mehmet glanced at the display, and sure enough the Belters on Medina had decided to join the fight. The weapons breached the bizarre non-space behind the ring and fanned out behind the defending fleet, accelerating at the physical limit of their drives. “Will they accept guidance commands?” Mehmet wondered. “Perhaps we can coordinate them to attack the ships-” Alerts shrieked as the *Sagarmatha’s* tactical computer switched the torpedoes IFF from allied to hostile. They weren’t accelerating past them to attack the Free Navy fleet. They were aligned on the *Sagarmatha*. A pit opened in Mehmet’s stomach as he saw his end approach, but professionalism took over. Duty came first, even if the battle was lost, even if it was all hopeless. “Defensive fire only for the guns,” he ordered. Get all our torps out before we’re gone.” Mehmet wondered at the calm of his own voice, but the officers obeyed, hands barely shaking. They had seconds now, maybe only one or two. PDCs swivelled about, destroying one, then two, then five of the Medina station torpedoes as they approached from behind. The blue markers drew closer, and when the end came, Mehmet’s last thought was of the future that his world had been denied. ***** The stealthed projectiles had ripped right through the CIC of the UNN *Tripoli*, shredding the bodies of Captain Vats’s second officer and comms officer. They’d reverted to redundant command pathways and were still fighting, but rail gun power was out, and they were down to PDCs only. Vats watched in mounting horror as the torpedo swarm from Medina obliterated the *Sagarmatha*. He'd never trusted the skinnies, and in the end they had sided with Inaros - freely made the choice to align themselves with the greatest crime in all of history. “Keep firing,” Vats shouted, through the chaos of the *Tripoli*’s bridge. The ship groaned alarmingly, structural warnings appearing on his terminal display. Officers barked out panicked orders, but still the PDCs fired. They wouldn't go down without a fight. He knew they wouldn’t survive, not without the Donnager-class to defend them in close quarters, but if they could whittle down the Free Navy fleet enough, maybe they would give the Martian reinforcements less to worry about. The *Tripoli*’s rail guns were stilled, lacking the reserve power the Martians could bring to bear, but her torpedoes continued to fly at the approaching fleet. If anything more came from Medina they were done for. The Martian reinforcements had launched, weapons streaming inward to add their strength to the battle. Not in time to save *Tripoli*, of course, but perhaps enough to make a difference, maybe enough to kill Inaros. Vats watched the torpedo swarm draw closer, vectors aligning on the *Tripoli*. They’d been betrayed twice over. *No, this is too much.* He simply stared, dumbstruck, as the swarm arrowed towards his ship, overwhelming their PDCs with ease. He felt the *Tripoli* shudder beneath him as a massive impact struck them and screamed as he died.
That is incredibly well written. Holy fuck all I want now is another capital ship battle in the Expanse, They are supremely satisfying. That is the one thing that does often suck in the Expanse is that our main characters are rarely involved in capital ship engagements. All I want is a long battle where a Donnager slugs it out with another battleship, is that too much to ask?
Too bad they cut out alot of the Mars plotine which would have included more ship battle scenes. Money isn't an excuse as Jeff Bezos is so rich and is a big fan of the series.
@@user-uy1rg8td1v Money IS an excuse because the show operates on a modest budget and does not have a pipeline directly from Bezos' bank account. It's a minor miracle that it looks as good as it does. (The minor miracle is partially powered by Jeremy Benning, Bret Culp, and several others who work damn hard to make every dollar count.)
Kinda like how a certain someone "forgot" about the most powerful naval force in the world, leading to the loss of one of her strategic airborne ground attack reptiles?
Agreed, The story is complex, but well written! The TV-show has also put a tremendous amount of work in the details, and the Space Battles are spectaculairly stunning! Even the mássive Star-Wars franchise aint got NOTHING on the Expanse! Ok, time, and technology are to the Expanse' advantage, still, if you compare this TV-show with the 'final trilogy' of SW, you'd almost ask the crude question; what the sandwich-f*ck was Disney doing or thinking?? THIS is what a Sci-fi space story needs to look like!
I did something similar. I had one scene where hero ship detonates its own torpedo with beam cannon. Beam guns are very rare, so nobody expects that. Ship got EMPed temporarily, so heroes use that time to disable its engines. Basically razorback rescue scene
this show and some great youtubers inspired me to create a realistic (no FTL or Clark-tech) Sci Fi world for a pen and paper rpg. its amazing how close we are to achieving a world similar to this. space is on the grasp of being ours.
It had a lot of good stuff but because I avoid spoilers I wasn't aware of the Cas Anvar drama and killing off Alex in post production looked as bad as it sounds to someone with no expectation and frankly ruined the episode for me.
Fun Fact: "Sagarmatha" is the nepalese word for Mount Everest, meaning "Goddess of the Sky". You may even notice at the beginning of the shot she's featured in shows her perpendicular to the "surface" -- outer edge -- of the Ring Gate below her. Could be coincidence. Could be good framing for the shot. Could be "hidden" attention to detail :)
Shows full of references like that, Marco Ineros sees himself as a great leader and his ship is named after the city that Alexander the Great was born in. Pella.
@@L8ugh1ngm8n1Symbolism is everywhere in the expanse. The booktitles always refer to the story eventhough they sound like gibberish at first first book 'leviathian wakes' uses the old biblical sea creature to refer to the protomolecule second book 'calibans war' refers to the hybrids. (Caliban is the slave of a evil wizard in Shakespears play 'the Tempest') third book 'Abbadons gate' is a rather obvious reference to the ring gate. The authors choose again to use a biblical creature. Abbadon is the gatekeeper to the underworld(sheol). The name itself can be translated from ancient hebrew as downfall or abyss. the fourth book 'cibola burn' might sound like spicy mexican food but is actually a reference to a legendary civilisation of seven golden cities in northern mexico. This is a reference to the ruins on Illus. The war between Inaros and the MCR-UN Alliance is described in book 6 titled 'Babylons ashes'. Obviously framing good ol' earth as a modern version of the decadent persian empire. Spoiler In the 7th book the title 'persepolis rising' refers to the old persian seat of power (Babylon= earth) getting replaced by a new capital/dynasty called Laconia. Book 8 is called 'Tiamats wrath'. Tiamat the babylonian godess of saltwater is probably refering to the weird space-entities that wiped out the ringbuilder civilisation.
I like how this show doesn't just name ships off of greek or roman cultures only. It truly shows diversity by incorporating names from different cultures. Like nepal. Or thailand. Really makes it much more immersive
There were so much details in the battle sequence I just kept re-watching it. It even made me understand the decisions made by Holden. First, Holden knew they could not win, so just wanted to buy time for Alex to save Naomi and escape. The moment Holden saw Tynan disable Dewalt, situation changed from 1 vs 5 to 2 vs 3. By realising there was a chance to win, he ordered Bull to turn around and fight. The question now, which ship should Holden target first? Out of the remaing 3, which were friends or foes? Then he saw Tynan target Koto, which immediate confirm his target as Koto. After taking out Koto, as Mowteng was not targeting him and Dewalt was disabled, this left with Serrio Mal as the obvious target. The decisions made by Holden was so on point, very impressive. Imagine if he chooses to run away, or target Mowteng first, the outcome of the battle will be very different.
I had to watch that Roci vs Free Navy space battle a couple times to understand what I was watching. Which ship was which and what ship they were firing on. I did end up getting it but I was definitely a bit confused about what was going on when i first watched it. Even before I understood it I thought it looked cool as hell and once I rewatched it I appreciated it even more.
Yes it took me awhile to figure out that the Roci was strafing the Serio Mal since all you saw was the nose of the ship as it let loose with the rail gun
Same here. The battle is awesome, but it's not perfect. There are a few scenes they could have added that would have made the engagement easier to follow on a first viewing. For example, they should've added a single up-close scene of the Roci firing its railgun to signal to the viewer that they're going to fire it repeatedly. It wasn't until the second viewing that I realized the Roci was constantly firing its railgun.
Same - I thoroughly enjoyed the battle as the characters' faces gave me the ups and downs of it, but I honestly didn't realise the Roci even engaged anyone, I thought they just sailed through firing cannons on defence to survive while Drummer's ships made the actual kills.
PLease tell me I'm going mad -> did Amazon re-edit this sequence? When I first watched it, I saw the Heavy Frigate fire its PDCs at the belta missiles until the final one got through and took it out. Then I rewatched the sequence a couple of times, and I managed to spot a rail gun hit disable the Frigate the second before the final missile hit. It was really hard to see, because the eye was drawn to the PDC action - but it was there if you knew where to look. What I did not see was the Rosci raking a rail gun shot right through the ship and blow it up. A few days later I watched Spacedock's analysis, and saw several clips which were unfamiliar - closeups of the Rosci firing its rail gun, and that strike down the middle of the Frigate. I went back to Amazon and had another watch, and its now as summarised by Spacedock. Either I have had a complete out of mind experience.... or there has been a sneaky re-edit. If its the latter, then its much better now as I had originally felt that sequence did a poor job of showing what was going on.
I can honestly say that no other show has been able to keep me on the edge of my seat with every episode like the Expanse has. You can tell that the cast and crew really have a love for this and it shows.
The moment right before the battle starts is really great - excellent character building: They had a plan: push right through the middle to buy as much time as possible. Holden talked to Bull about it just moments before. How they don't fight to win. Then, from one second to the next, the plan changed. Holden recognizes the opportunity and tells Bull to turn around and engage. Any lesser pilot would have asked questions or complained. But Bull just did as he was told, without a comment. Not even a second of screen time, but that's all we need to understand what an outstanding soldier Bull is!
@@freakybaby1012 yea I'd really kind of like a story that doesn't feel the need for anything super natural, just hard physics human politics etc. But I'm enjoying expanse all the same
@@freakybaby1012 I've really liked Apple's for all mankind for a real science driven science fiction series. Gets a little weighed down with personal drama, but it does it well enough IMO
It's very difficult to get the relativistic speeds and distances involved in realistic space combat right in a tv show, but this one really makes a damn good effort. I really like how they handle long range visual contact as tiny specs of light from drive plumes. Which is exactly what you'd expect to see.
@@ConorDoesItAll I have to say the battle to destroy the resurrection ship is probably my favourite along with the battle of Thoth station in the expanse.
5:32 not only did they bother to animate the Roci's engines firing to account for the rail gun kickback in the close up shot of the Roci, they also show the exhaust trailing from the Roci in burst as it strafes around the enemy ship when the camera is positions close to the enemy ship.
Honestly, seeing the Sagarmatha still putting up a fight even after getting absolutely mauled by stealth meteors was a bit surprising and just goes to show how insanely tough the Donnagers are.
What i like about the expanse is how they treat space, its not just a setting and is sidelined for character development or drama, its dead center of the story, how it affects characters and how it stir the story.
It was an amazing sequence, but I think the Thoth Station battle is still my favorite. That shot of the cabin filling with red bullet/debris streaks is just so iconic.
I like the consistency of how effective the Martian PDCs are. The Roci has been shown to have really effective PDC coverage and we see here both the Koto and Serrio Mal take out all of the torpedos thrown at them, it’s the railgun that they can’t deal with.
..."All us Space Nerds to lose our minds over"... Boy you got that right! I have watched this episode multiple times now on Amazon, and stopped and backed up and freeze-framed and marveled at the sheer awesomeness of this space battle sequence!! I just can't express how awesome this is.. OMG.. It just doesn't get much better than this!!
I remember finding this show during it's second season, and watching it with all of my fingers crossed - toes included - hoping it won't get cancelled due to lack of viewers, as I only met one guy that's a fan, and I'm pretty sure he started watching at my recommendation. But it's people like you here that kept it going, with your endless (well deserved) praises. Well done, much love.
This show is so effing fantastic. In my opinion, it has the best space battles ever put to screen. Another moment I absolutely loved was when Holden used the Roci's torpedos to defend the razorback essentially acting as shields for it. That was absolutely genius. This show has continued to impress.
I only just discovered this channel, and I am absolutely blown away. Why can't there be more amazing quality content like this on the internet? I will 100% be buying access to The Sojourn, if its anywhere near as high quality as the channel I will not be disappointed.
These two battles were fucking AMAZING and incredible to watch when they dropped. The mutineer fight had so much going on it was almost hard to track. Brutal, efficient, short. The gate fight... made me so sad, but it was such a great, short battle.
My first answer is budget. Hahaha. But my second is less facetious. Honestly, even with budget I don't think it'll make sense to make it go on too much longer. From a film-making/script standpoint you have to be careful to not get bogged down in exposition. Each second with film must be telling a story, more concisely it must be developing the plot, a character, or both. Take season 1 with the Donnie. The entire battle was much longer, but that worked because Holden was trying to convince Capt. Mao of their innocence, bargain for the others lives whilst also contemplating Naomi's background. Furthermore, Teresa Mao was also going through her own short arc coming to realise that she underestimated the incoming ships and lost the initiative and advantage, leading to them being out matched which for all intents and purposes was not supposed to be possible. Martian arrogance was put on display and their established technological supremacy had been usurped. She was a motif reflecting the greater Martian society among the superpowers of humanity amidst a huge powershift. With all of that taking place at once, the pacing felt fast yet even. From a realism standpoint..... Movies have a tendency to make fights last longer then what they do for real, especially sword fights and aerial battles. A sword fight is over after 3 or 5 moves in the real world. Most "dogfights" are over before they start, and those that aren't usually end within a minute, and if they don't end in that time resolve into two planes turning in circles stuck in a stalemate. A full naval engagement (and beyond visual aerial engagement) can be lengthy, but only with respect to the overall amount of time from when the first shot is fired to one vessel sinking. The "interesting" bits are only seconds in length with a lot of down time in between. This is less true with aerial warfare due to the manuevering involved but still. The only exception to this ironically is submarine warfare where the zig-zagging for the knuckels, noise makers and decoys launched to spoof slow moving homing torpedoes is a series of events that CAN take place in a very busy 5 or 10 minutes. This is however very very very unlikely. For all intents and purposes most sub engagements will end with an unsuspecting vessel spontaneously combusting without having a clue as to why. I do have my moments where I wish to see more eye candy and cool shit. However I have to remind myself that what we're seeing is part of a greater narrative, not an analysis. Furthermore, it being longer will take away from one of the defining reasons why we love it, that being its gritty realism.
The thing is fights usually dont last long, swordfights or spacefights, you want the fight to end as quick as possible to avoid exhaustion. In Roci vs Free navy it would be quick because its 5v1 anyway, but with drummers betrayal its over quick because it effectively splits the into 3v3 and Drummer is flanking the other three and gets a free shot into Dewala. Its an ambush esssentially. And so is battle for the ring. UN established that it has little presence around the ring because they pulled their ships back home or around belter strongpoints. They are rellying on the fact that Marco wont have enough ships to beat three capital ships in a straight fight, and he doesnt. He first severely wounds them with meteor storm and then medina station and Laconian fleet. Once again, one side is being ambushed now it's from three sides. Its a spectacle, but the shortness of the fight serves to show how a well-executed betrayal is supposed to work.
I think the fact that we keep wantng more space battles shows less is more. Space battles are a big deal and hundreds die in an encounter of of any significance. They should be rare as they would be in real life.
The biggest change this season is how they've finally figured out how to shoot space battles. Seasons 1-3 they were constantly moving the camera and ships, which meant the viewer had no frame of reference in the infinite black of space so it looked like everything was moving. This season, and a bit of last, they have stopped moving the camera so much, and are instead keeping the frame of reference viable, so it's much easier to understand the relative motion of everything.
Man I’m so sad I haven’t discovered your channel until now. As an enormous sci-fi and in particular The Expanse fan, lamenting the end of what I consider to be the best sci-fi show ever put to screen, I am here devouring more Expanse-related content so I don’t have to admit that it’s gone. Thanks for these breakdowns. It’s wonderful to see someone take the time to point out the details the casual observer may miss.
I had a tough time in Dec, and time on my hands, so with nothing better to do I started the Expanse (as show I saw only 1 episode of from my NBC days). Not only did it put me in a better mood, but I think it single handed saved SciFi TV for me. So happy this is getting the credit is deserves.
As a 5 decade hard core Science Fiction addict I can definitely say the Expanse is absolutely the top SciFi television series ever. The accuracy to detail including the physics that 99 percent of shows get wrong is astounding. Several book authors have refused to allow follow on books in series to be made because producers screwed the pooch with their adaptations. Tho one the author an rest assured justice was done by everyone on the development and production teams right down to cast choices and costume designs. Bobbi has to be the hotest Marine ever.
Completely agree. This season was pretty fucking great. Also, the music in that final space battle was minimal at first, slowly building and frankly masterful. Definitely added to it.
I jumped up in my seat, yelled "Yeah!", and fist-pumped! I'm a pretty reserved guy, but the sequence was just so readable and immersive. Honestly can't think of any other time I've been so thrillled watching this level of CGI action.
Reading the Expanse books and The Hunt for Red October has spawned a somehwhat unusual sci-fi story Ive been working on: Space Combat that retains some of the high-speed, long-distance methodical elements of the combat in the Expanse, but is stylized like submarine combat. The battles revolve around detection and stealth, but happen within the rules of space combat. Thanks SpaceDock for getting me into this show, and for for your video essay "How to Write a Space Battle" that really got this idea going for me!
in amazon prime, there's a feature called "X-Ray" which shows concept art, behind-the-scenes, and even bonus videos (steven strait discusses the eps with a few cast members and naren shankar).
I did too. I know everyone really gushes over the Donnager, and all the MCRN ships are just beautiful to be sure, so the love is well deserved. Nonetheless, I'm sure there are also other folks that have a sweet spot for the veteran UNN Dreadnoughts. The Montenegro and the Tripoli also kept fighting on to the bitter end and were also only taken out by torpedoes coming from turncoats.
If You are a fans of Expanse you need to listen to Ty and that guy podcast. Amos and Ty Frank are hosting it talking in details about each episode of the show
We need separate vids for Drummers fleet, the Pella, and the Serrio Mal... This season was a shiplovers dream!!! I was aslo trying to find a size comparison between the donnager class and the truman class
The only criticism i have of the expanse spacecraft is the lack of reaction mass (fuel tanks) that even SUPER EFFICIENT plasma drives would need as a proportion of the vehicle mass...especially in vehicles that are capable of continuous acceleration to simulate grAVITY
Holy crap! When I watched this battle on my own, I didn't think much of it. Wasn't bad by any means, but it didn't elicit the "whoa!" that I got watching the original Donnager battle or the Roci vs. Stealth ship. Watching this analysis revealed a ton of awesome detail that I missed. It makes the whole thing just way more impressive. Thank you very much for an awesome analysis!
Thank you for making this video. I didn’t realize I could enjoy watching it frame by frame so much. You guys are brilliant and I knew you were bound to do a commentary for this season. Best wishes from California.
The way this battle sequence is done is almost like watching Japanese mech animes like Gundam or Macross. They too like to squeeze in details that people often not pick out at first glance, but each time you revisit you find new details and realize how much love the team puts into it.
Plus he still hasn't covered several important ship classes from the earlier seasons as well = eg. the UNN warships that open fire on the Scirocco at Ganymede.
Wow !!! ... I've been so politicized the last ten or few months ... haven't watched a Spacedock in waaaay too long. Thank you for still being here. I needed this. Can't wait to take in what I've missed.
You strike me as a person, who likes games with space combat. Can you recommend me a game in which predominantly conventional weaponry are used? Like missiles, railguns, pdc's, etc.
@@legik0143 yeah, I stumbled into it a couple of weeks ago, looks cool as hell. On the sidenote, Star sector has combat with PDCs, railguns, artillery pieces and direct energy weapons. It's still further into the future, so there are some shields and plasma guns, but in fight they inevitably fail, which leads to CQC. PDCs ripping into side of enemy ship, taking out guns and engines is a sight to behold. Also, I really enjoy launching long-range guided anti-shield missiles, then, once enemy ship is overloaded, getting in close and finishing it up with single-shot dumb jihady launchers. A single close-range volley and otherwise perfectly fine ship is, literally, ripped to pieces.
@@katamarankatamaranovich9986 While Infinity: Battlescape does use shields and anti-shield weaponry and therefore not exactly conventional weaponry. The shields only deflect damage based on their current strength. Kinetic weapons also ricochet on hit. So you can look into that one.
I'm going to have to go back and watch the Expanse again just for the great battles and acting. I'm hoping that the success of this show will FINALLY teach the big movie studios how to do proper space battles.
I've watched many sci fi shows in my life. Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, and many more. The Donnager class is one of my personal favourite ship designs of all time. Its simply gorgeous.
Spoiler warning I also like how cleanly they took out Alex. It was a possibility the story allowed for and previously explained. The aftermath felt organic.
I didn't even know about the 'real' reason for it until after watching. I agree. One of those 'not everyone dies a good death' moments, and gives real weight to the risk of high g maneuvers
I completely agree. I also loved how flawed it was, it was a perfect testament to the character. Alex saved his friends and the system multiple times, but still abandoned his family making them believe he was dead. Brave and Cowardly in equal measure. Which is possibly the most human of traits. His last conversation with his wife, where she says “ You don’t get to know, we don’t owe you any closure” feels absolutely authentic. It’s unfinished business, which is as Amos said “that’s what dying is”. Sometimes we don’t get to close everything with a clean ending...and that’s perfectly human.
@@MrTiptopten I do love how at the end Holden talks about his wife wanting to make funeral arangements with full military honors. Shows she maybe forgave a small part of his actions.
The show is pretty accurate, but the books are even more so. There is a lot of stuff discussed in the books in regards to space battles that they just can't really discuss in video battle. The authors of the book can run a master class of, "here's all things you deal with in space that you'd never think of until its too late".
It’s still really painful to see that Alex Kamal is gone... I’m gonna miss the Roci’s space cowboy. I was really hoping he just fell unconscious from the burn. If Cas Anvar reads this, you were amazing, cowboy.
It was the biggest led down of the season imo, but one that was handled very very well given the off screen circumstances so I give it a pass. Can't be easy improvising plot like that on the fly and well into post-production.
...wasn't...the reason why Alex got written off the show is because he *wasn't* a good person? Like, I love the character, but if the actor's a POS, he's gotta go for everyone else's sake. It sucks, but it is on him for...being...a dipshit.
@@davidcolby167 I'm a firm supporter of innocent until proven guilty. Far to many actors getting fired over political views and baseless sexual harrassment claims. I don't know if the claims where baseless or not but considering there was no legal action taken I'm thinking baseless.
@@beny874 No....accusations. I believe innocent until proven guilty. If it wasn't more than he said she said then legal action would have also been taken.
The scene with the Donnager holding off the fleet of the free navy by its self basically was just so beautifully done i love the Martians and their ship designs Also if you look closely at the front of the Donnager you can see them firing off their own torpedos
"Held together through sheer middle finger energy." That is how you describe a Donnager! in fact i'm going to get that on a T-shirt! or you guys should put it on one for your merch. So sad S6 is going to be the last series, will it cover babylon Ashes to Tiamats Wrath and what about the 9th book? I hope S6 will be more episodes or longer ones if its covering the last 3 released books. Also will Bull replace Alex's role in the series?
@@MrAnthonyDraft See everything i have read says it is and Vernon Sanders Co-head at Amazon studios has released a statement say season 6 would be the final season amazon makes. that was 3 weeks ago so has something changed since then?
@@danielbeck2739 I could imagine an in-universe propaganda poster or two being made after the Ring battle with those themes. Mars in the back, overlayed by a sihouette / vector of the MCRN Sagarmatha, and a stylized *HELD TOGETHER BY SHEER MIDDLE FINGER ENERGY* as the headlines lmao.
Already a lot to cover, so I seriously hope it goes for three more seasons. That might be enough to get everything in without rushing, depending on the scope of the last novel. One season is just laughable though. They might do it anyway, but that would automatically be a bit of a letdown.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 sadly Amazons co head announced the other month that season 6 would be the last one amazon makes. Unless it gets picked up by say Netflix, which is what it was originally on in the UK. That I sadly doubt we will get anymore. But saying that Lucifer has been revived twice, it was canceled but save by Netflix, season 5 was meant to be the last but Netflix commissioned another due to is popularity. So it could happen to the expanse.
Also interesting is the different makes of torpedos. While we are used to stolen and smuggled martian/earth torpedos that were on board the roci and supplied by tycho, both the free navy belter ships and drummer's battlegroup use torpedos that barely use manouvres and are used in larger volumes. It seems belters have their own line of bootleg torpedos that favour travel speed and most likely pricing and ease of production over effectiveness. Hence why the belter ships in this season seem to dump everything at once. That philosophy even seems to translate to the free navy martian ships. Even though they now have martian torpedos they waited a long time before dumping all torpedos at once, most likely ingrained into the free navy captains by experience with less advanced equipment.
First comment. Definitely the best space battle of the expanse. ( referring to the ring gate) I missed most of the Drummer squadron battle because I was cooking and couldn't pay as much attention. I'm definitely rewatching it.
I'm just a tiny bit disappointed the Sagarmatha Donnager didn't pull a 40k move and went full ramming speed when it was severely damaged to catch the free navy in the reactor blast.
@@Lastburn I think at that point they don't care much about counteracting the railgun blasts. they're far enough away from the ring that its not gonna just shoot them back into it, and even if it does give them some backwards momentum, they would have either won or lost the battle long before they passed through
The inverse square law strikes again! You need to be *shockingly* close to another ship for even a massive explosion to damage another ship, because of the way radiation propagates through a vacuum.
Not mentioned in this video but the acting was superb (Drummers shock when she realised the missiles weren't going to make it) and the music completely makes the scene.
"The donnager class is capable of being held together by shear middle finger energy". Best analogy ever 😂 Also when Drummer fires on the Koto and it starts shooting down the torpedos, the music gave me Mad Max Fury Road vibes.
feel free to ignore me but since I see that you were willing to edit the comment already I'm just going to point out it should be "sheer" instead of "shear"
Started watching this programme at the beginning of last year and by god this is the greatest sci fi show ever. Love the show love the cast love everything about it. It truly is spectacular from start to finish. So good I’ve watched the entire 5 seasons 3 times in a row. Can’t wait for the next season to come.
If they did that, they'd lose viewers because it's non-canon and not as flashy if you don't know what to look for. Few people appreciate physics in their space battles
i had never noticed before, but the PDCs have a small exhaust on the back to prevent their firing from causing the ships to rotate. the detail on this show is awe inspiring
I suspect Expanse fans in particular might enjoy our original science fiction Audio Drama; The Sojourn. Check it out here!
www.thesojournaudiodrama.com/
Amazing video
What about ships from other franchises like MCU or maybe the Martian the Intertellar etc.
Did you ever visit projectrho also known as Atomic rockets?
Can confirm!
Desperately waiting for the next few episodes of it.
"...held together by sheer middle-finger energy..."
In my younger days we called that "the last great act of defiance."
Tough little ship wait fuck wrong franchise
@@leopolddienstknecht7931 tough BIG ship, bet a donnie could kick a borg cube with SHEAR WILLPOWER
@@electrohalo8798 Captain Yao, MCRN DONNAGER: "Fly closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"
That's true Martian grit. Not the traitors who stab people in the back or those who lost faith in the Martian dream.
In my day it was called "Big-Dick Energy".
I loved how they showed off just how well built the Donnager is, every deck was comprimised, every compartment had likely been holed and she'd lost one of her main guns. Even despite all that she kept firing all her remaining weapons right up until the whole ship was torn apart. A beautiful display of what those ships are capable of.
The MCRN do not mess around!
@@fatalshore5068 not does the laconian empire
its possible that tha Weapons were put on automatic fire and the crew was already dead
Like the HMS Victory in the battle of Trafalgar. All masts down, Admiral Killed, Belching endless cannon shot. Pure bad ass.
given the MCRN ship's abilities to swing WAY above their weight class(at least on things they can see)
I wouldn't be surprised if they were thinking "there is only 15? of them, if those UNN ships can take at least 1 or 2 each we still got this"
right up till she got stabbed(torpedoed) in the back
"Held together by sheer middle finger energy." Truly the best description for the Donnager Class! I only hope we get to see this ship again fight in future seasons!
I felt true emotions with the shot of it's battered hull still dishing it out
How many are left now? 6? 7?
If the TV show remains faithful to the books, then I've got some good news for you.
@@Toren8002 :D
It will, and it will play a crucial role in a way later decisive moment of the story by exactly that sheer middle finger energy.
Also, when the Dewalt fires its torpedo salvo, the torpedoes just eject radially off of the ship without dropping back. The Dewalt’s drive was out and it was just drifting, so the torps just fly off the side and maintain the same speed as the ship.
All the other torps eject and drop back behind the ship before the drives kick in, because at the time of firing, all the other ships are still under thrust and accelerating away from the torps after they're dropped.
Wasn't the Dewalt Ashford's ship? The one Drummer said during salvage that they'd compensate the lack of cannons with a boatload of torpedoes? If so, that's some good continuity right there.
@@sergioaccioly5219 The Tynan was Ashford's ship from Season 4. DeWalt and Mowteng were Drummer's original ships. But yes all the Tynan has left are its missiles since it's implied that Marco stripped it of its Martian PDCs.
Also in the vein of "Good continuity," in season 4, you get to see the Tynan fire its PDCs. When they are fired, they make the Martian PDC sound like the PDCs on the Roci, Serrio Mal and other MCRN ships. If you listen carefully, UNN PCDs make a different sound.
Clearly there's at least one guy working on The Expanse who wasn't sleeping in physics classes when he was a kid.
I love the consistency in martian ship designs, the heavy frigate was exactly what I had envisioned a ship of it's size might look like with a decent amount of creativity.
That heavily relies on the technological assumptions of the setting(s) in question. For example, for a future-history setting that I'm working on, most ships are either made up of hexagons, octagons, triangles, and cylinders as a general rule for shapes. To give an example, one of the main factions (the successor to the UN called SolGov whose armed forces are called SolForce) uses hexagons as its main spaceship shape with most of its turrets being some variation of trapezoidal prisms. Armaments are a fun assortment of automatics ranging from missiles (usually armed with some sort of plasma, APHE, or nuclear warhead with PD missiles being fitted with AHEAD warheads, and most of these missiles are housing multiple missiles each) to electromotive (i.e. railguns and coilguns) to conventional directed energy (i.e. lasers, particle beams, and, oddly enough, Spheromark-based 'pulse' weapons) to UNconventional directed energy (i.e. fusion cannons and anti-shield weapons with the odd matter disruptor and meson weapon).
Yeah, it gets fun. Oh, and in terms of detection, the rule of thumb is 'hide in mass shadows while making sure you destroy every sensor node' because of things like cross-spectrum LIDAR and Quantum Radar (i.e. stealth doesn't work, but I still model it due to the local setting's armor properties) make stealth as we know it obsolete alongside things like sensor fusion making sensor density go to the 'yes' category. So that stealth meteorite rain maneuver is useless...
it's like a stretched Corvette, which makes sense since the Roci herself is already the size of a UNN frigate
The ships of 'The Expanse' are still 'ships (i.e. current ocean going appearance) in space'; effectively, a huge stack of shipping containers stacked on end vertically with a rocket at the bottom of the stack. Every deck is a tiny space and an endless stairwell.
Surely real spaceships, assuming the non-existence of artificial gravity - which seems pretty reasonable to me, will be short fat cylinders with the main drive on the end of the cylinder. This will allow larger floor spaces, a limited number of floors (levels), and a spin induced artificial gravity when not under power.
@@paulcompton7861
Warships are built around their propulsion and weapon systems. Everything else is an afterthought. Spacious floor plans and crew amenities are not a priority.
@@Hyperious_in_the_air roci is a "corvette" class frigate. Corvette being the class NAME the class being frigate.
2 more things to note that i absolutely love:
When any of the PDC turrets fire, you can actually see either a little RCS thruster or directed exhaust of the projectile shooting out the rear of the PDC to compensate for the projectiles inertia. Because of course without this, every PDC would be like a tiny thruster pushing the ship around.
Second thing, the helmets in the expanse have lights on the inside. A tradition that for the longest time has infuriated realism nerds like SpaceDock and me. But in the Expanse, the lights are oriented so they don’t shine in the eyes of the people wearing the suit. This way there’s little to no reflection created on the inside vizor by the helmet lights!!
Never thought I’d find a show I love more then Star Trek, but the Expanse has done it!
Rest in peace, Alex.
I think in this case it's the actual gasses being pushed out of the back.
I too must say that at last, a series which had nudged star trek off my sci-fi mantle
Not a lore expert, but if Giorgio is right - and I suspect they are - the IRL term for that kind of "cannon" is a "recoilless rifle". They were very popular for a short time during and after WW2 as light anti-tank weapons, but today they're almost exclusively used as infantry anti-tank/fortification weapons. I've always thought they would be a good choice for amphibious armored vehicles and space warships due to the minimal recoil.
@Giorgio Alamia In the books it's explained (although I can't remember where exactly) the PDCs use small thrusters to compensate for recoil.
You're correct in that hand weapons use self propelled munitions, but this is because the recoil fro, firing a bullet has allot more effect on a human then on a spaceship. And it wouldn't exactly be practical to use tiny thrusters on hand weapons.
PDCs shoot so many rounds it'd be uneconomical to use high-tech rounds in them.
PDCs literally look like they're just recoilless. Pretty mature technology even today. Just put portion of gases through a nozzle at the back to compensate for recoil.
After watching Season 5 the first time, I immediately rewatched it. Those stealth coated micrometeoroids are shown in an earlier episode (I can’t remember which). One of the short “Marco Inaros on the bridge looking at holographic displays before a major scene” shows an arcing trajectory, about 90° to the ecliptic, that ends at the Ring. He’s preparing his forces to time their arrival with the meteoroids.
Shit I remember that shot, god I love how well they build this show!
When I initially saw that I thought he was projecting a rendezvous course for the torpedo with the sample. (Assuming the sample got off the Zemeya somehow)
Stealth coated micro meteors caught me completely off guard. Marco and those belters have been busy
It was foreshadowed in the first episode
@@rockomax2732 Yep. Filip destroyed the science ship to keep anyone from knowing about the broken up asteroid or it's destination. These are clearly those same ones.
@@milespettey4791 Uhh, It would take literally decades to half-orbit the sun that far.
gotta love that Donnager class!
Went down swinging
It was literally saying “Fine, I’LL TAKE YOU ALL ON”. Optimus prime style. Just chills watching that ship in beast mode.
"sheer middle finger energy"
But think about it, the Roci is a ridiculously tough little ship, and it was designed by the same people, at the same time, and as part of the same project of integrated complementary ship designs as the Donnager class.
Yeah but the Expanse must hate them because every time they are in the show they get blown up.
@@Marinealver its a sad thing that the Donnager class has a 100% death ratio for on screen appearances. but i guess if they werent destroyed in situations where they are massively out numbered the story wouldnt have progressed this far.
Gotta appreciate Drummer’s ability to take a look at the state of battle graphic and immediately recognize the best use for the torpedoes- swarm the PDCs to allow the Roci to sneak in for the kill.
And how do you defuse the whole situation after all that madness? "Holden...this is Drummer." Just brilliant.
@@elvisibra Well zemo, if i can cite the video makers here with "tightly timed events", otherwise i see and agree with your point. Sometimes (many times), the plot is stronger than gravity.
Can someone explain to me *why* that was the best use of the torpedoes instead of just killing the Koto outright? Because that was probably enough torpedoes to do it.
@@elvisibra Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick to the books for the foreseeable future.
@@autumngottlieb3071 Because both ships had PDC defense grids that can take out torpedos until the PDC ammo runs out, but there is no defense against a railgun shot once it gets in range. The torpedos were to buy time for the Roci to get in range while Marco's ships are busy handling the torpedos. Maybe if they'd shot the torpedos from more angles they'd have gotten lucky and one would have gotten through, but that wasn't very likely.
Rest in peace MCRN Sagarmatha. Always sad when a Donnager dies.
At least she died in Battle instead of being picked apart like a beached Humpback down Mar's Gravity well.
A Donnager should always die on its feet, going out swinging
She'll be remembered... even if its just by us few...
It's UNN Sagarmatha if I'm not mistaken
@@ИльяЛавров-ь3ч Do you watch the show?
Sheer Middle-Finger Energy...gonna use that.
Yeah that was an amazing line
reminds me the legend of HMS Hood.. when she was destroyed by the Bismark .. aparentlty as the front half was going down vertically one of the turrets fired before going underwater.. some say it could been an accidental explosion or triggering.. others their last middle finger at the german fleet
Daniel's eloquence knows no bounds.
Donnager gives no fucks
i already do
My favorite detail from the Ring battle - you can see when the Montenegro gets hit by micrometeorites, there's a brief moment when the capacitor is ruptured and you see electrical current arcing through the debris being flung away from the railgun. You can see it at 7:00 in this video.
Wow the details are amazing
Great detail to point out!
Amazing spot, thanks for pointing that out. The VFX team working on that probably had to create a little system for that to work in a repeatable way, knowing that few people would see it but doing it anyway.
“Let’s make sure history never forgets the name Sagarmatha!”
~Captain of the Sagarmatha, probably
You cannot pass! I am a servant of unified humanity, wielder of the foehammer railgun!
I'm going to remember it, but only because there's a Nepalese restaurant with the same name where I live.
Or, "i didn't think we could lose"
oNE OF MY FAVORITE QUOTES BY pICARD, GIVES ME CHILLS
Sagarmatha translates to the head of the sky, sagar meaning sky, and matha meaning head. Although it could very well be the ocean's head. Because saagar translates to ocean, and the a could have been lost while writing a hindi word in the roman script.
Wow! What a great breakdown of the battles. You really picked out every detail we put in there...like every detail! Love that the fans enjoy those things and appreciate the support and enthusiasm. It's what drives us to keep trying to making these sequences better. Love these videos.
UM WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?
Thanks for finally putting the Sci back into the Fi. It was so refreshing.
When I first started The Expanse, I wasn't sure about the hard science element, but it only took a few episodes for me to understand, appreciate and then ultimately fall in love with it. Combat is far more guttural and responsive than in other universes and makes it just that little more compelling.
It gained my admiration when they first geared up for battle into vac suits and depressurized the crew space. I got so much used to the sight of crew flying out of decompressing rooms in other sci-fi that it blew my mind... Like hell, you're supposed to do this forever!
The writers are sticklers for accuracy. A lot of stuff in Expanse that I have basically never seen in scifi before, but which should be in all scifi. Orbitals, retro-burns to slow down, no need for an ecliptic in space etc. Most movies and shows make space battles feel as if they are taking place on the surface of the sea or something.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 Ye the only show that bothered with any of that, at least partially was Galactica - the only other show that can somehow match Expanse's space battles despite being decades old. They also pioneered this awesome style of camera work which makes it look really fucking good even today, as it hides the imperfections well.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 What about artificial gravity? I mean, sure this appears to be the closest thing to Children of the Dead Earth: The Movie, but it doesn't seem to have a lot of Zero-G sequences and what's with the flashy explosions? Aren't they supposed to be nukes or something? CoaDE did nukes in space pretty nicely, even though it's much harder to convey the effect by the visual means than just "painting" a "mushroom cloud".
I kind of tried quickly watching S1E01 here and there, but it appears to be full of agendas and "actors 2.0", so I decided to postpone it. This space battle breakdown here certainly instills more enthusiasm, but I wonder if I'll be able to make it all the way to S5... Not to mention, I really don't like seeing people *walk* and stand around inside a military vessel that is supposed to be realistic and relatively "near future".
@@getsideways7257 It has plenty of zero-g scenes all over the place. How they make artificial gravity in Expanse is either centrifugal for the stations or through acceleration in the smaller ships so the passengers are pulled towards the engine at 1g. When ships stop they always engage mag boots so they can stick to the floor.
Admiral Mehmet Harman had always considered himself a student of history. He’d never expected to be living in it.
In the days since the apocalyptic strike on Earth, the scenes of whole cities ripped apart like paper, of tsunamis that filled half the sky, choking ash clouds and fields strewn with body bags, he’d felt as if he’d been living in a waking dream.
‘How had it come to this?’ he’d wondered aloud in the officer’s mess of the MCRN *Sagarmatha*. The other officers had stared at him as if he’d asked a stupid question, and then they’d all gone back to silently eating.
Marco Inaros was the reason, and no-one wanted to look any further. But Mehmet couldn’t stop himself from asking *why*.
At least he wasn’t on the *Tripoli* or *Montenegro*, the two Truman-class battleships escorting them. Mehmet happened to know that the *Montenegro’s* captain had grown up in Senegal. He’d tried to imagine what the UNN officer must have felt watching Dakar and the rest of the west African shared interest zone be reduced to dust, knowing that millennia of history and his entire family was gone forever.
‘Did we do wrong?’
It was a question that had come to Mehmet’s mind in the few hours of bunk time he managed to snatch between endless drills and tactical simulations. Their escort fleet had been withdrawn to protect the inner planets, leaving the *Donnager*\-class and the two *Truman*\-class escorts alone to guard the Ringspace.
‘Where did we go wrong?’
Mehmet knew his history. He understood that the system Earth and Mars built was not perfect. Humanity’s first forays into space had been driven by hope and desperation in equal measure - the climate shifts of the early twenty-first century, the economic stagnation that had gripped the UN, the yet more devastating crisis of fusion waste heat which crippled Earth’s already battered ecosystem - all had left the human race in a precarious position.
Then had come Solomon Epstein and his drive, and with it Martian independence.
No, it hadn’t been perfect. But the horrors of the past had faded - the crippling hunger and poverty that billions of Earthers lived under for centuries had all but disappeared, war between nations became a distant memory and Mars prospered.
For most people, by the numbers, the System had become a safe and just place to live. It could have been so much worse.
Mehmet had always believed in the dream of Mars, even as he understood that there would be losers and winners from its progress. In his heart he’d been glad that the OPA had achieved its independence. Their time had come, and the sooner humanity could put old hatreds aside, the better.
He’d found himself replaying Marco Inaros’s broadcast, trying to imagine what had driven the man but in the end, he knew what his answer was. Inaros had to die, and anyone who stood with him deserved death as well.
Mehmet had joined in the jubilation that spread among the UNN ships after news of the attack on Pallas station. He’d watched the videos of the Belters aboard that rock celebrating Marco’s crimes, celebrating the worst act of mass murder in history. Those on Pallas had made their choice. A deeper part of him felt discomfort at that thought, doubt that the attack on Pallas was just, but he’d quashed it. This was war. The Earthers hadn’t even tried to hide their glee.
Mehmet had always believed in the dream of Mars, but every day that felt increasingly hollow. What did Mars stand for if there were a thousand new worlds and more to settle?
He knew the corruption ran deeper than anyone in the Navy would admit and did his best to ignore the fact that he knew, to pretend that Mars still meant something, that they were unified and that the world they’d built was worth fighting for. It was - he had to believe it was.
*****
The battle for the ring began without warning.
Mehmet was seated on the bridge of the *Sagarmatha,* watching the vector lines of the approaching Free Navy fleet, the further-out cluster of MCRN reinforcements, when the collision radar screamed out a violent alert. There was no time to react before the impact came.
Shudders ran the length of the massive Donnager-class battleship, and internal camera views showed streaks of hyperaccelerated dust penetrating their armoured skin, piercing corridors and equipment and the bodies of the crew. In the CIC, Mehmet and his officers were mercifully saved, their air seal remaining intact and insulating them from the damage to the rest of the ship. Gravity vanished in a moment, and Mehmet felt the sensation of freefall rise in his chest, a sensation uncomfortably like anxiety.
“Drive offline, torpedo tubes are jammed,” the first officer reported. Mehmet shook his head, trying to clear his vision, and glanced at the terminal display.
“Stealth coated,” he concluded. “We didn’t see the rocks till the last second."
The first officer nodded.
The comm system rebooted, showing the *Tripoli* and *Montenegro* \- sturdily built UNN vessels, still intact, drives also crippled. The Free Navy had launched a massive wave of torpedoes.
“Launch torpedoes, PDCs to automatic,” he ordered, but the weapons officers had already taken the initiative.
Even with stolen Martian technology, even with their drive crippled, the Free Navy should not have chosen to tangle with a *Donnager*\-class battleship. The *Sagarmatha* bared its teeth and struck back.
The hull rang and shuddered as torpedoes left their tubes, the heavy boom of their two foehammer railguns distinguishable from the subsonic thrum of PDCs. They were flinging everything at the Free Navy, aiming to finish the battle quickly.
The *Pella*, Inaros’s ship, was at the centre of the attacking cluster. That was their target.
“Splash one,” the weapons officer announced, as a Free Navy ship - a light destroyer of MCRN design, blew apart under a high-yield nuclear detonation. Beside them, the UNN ships opened up with torpedoes.
Mehmet suppressed a smile. A damaged Donnager-class, engine-less, would be the one to end the life of the greatest mass murderer in human history. He could be glad of that.
Enemy torpedoes streaked inwards from all directions, and their PDCs fired, arcs shifting to compensate for damaged sections. They couldn’t manoeuvre, but they could still react with blinding speed.
Railgun one overheated, and Mehmet diverted power to their second gun, placing slug after slug in the direction of the *Pella*, even knowing they were beyond close-quarters range. Keep them occupied, overwhelm them any way you can.
“Incoming - ringspace,” the first officer announced.
Mehmet glanced at the display, and sure enough the Belters on Medina had decided to join the fight. The weapons breached the bizarre non-space behind the ring and fanned out behind the defending fleet, accelerating at the physical limit of their drives.
“Will they accept guidance commands?” Mehmet wondered. “Perhaps we can coordinate them to attack the ships-”
Alerts shrieked as the *Sagarmatha’s* tactical computer switched the torpedoes IFF from allied to hostile. They weren’t accelerating past them to attack the Free Navy fleet. They were aligned on the *Sagarmatha*. A pit opened in Mehmet’s stomach as he saw his end approach, but professionalism took over. Duty came first, even if the battle was lost, even if it was all hopeless.
“Defensive fire only for the guns,” he ordered. Get all our torps out before we’re gone.”
Mehmet wondered at the calm of his own voice, but the officers obeyed, hands barely shaking. They had seconds now, maybe only one or two.
PDCs swivelled about, destroying one, then two, then five of the Medina station torpedoes as they approached from behind. The blue markers drew closer, and when the end came, Mehmet’s last thought was of the future that his world had been denied.
*****
The stealthed projectiles had ripped right through the CIC of the UNN *Tripoli*, shredding the bodies of Captain Vats’s second officer and comms officer. They’d reverted to redundant command pathways and were still fighting, but rail gun power was out, and they were down to PDCs only.
Vats watched in mounting horror as the torpedo swarm from Medina obliterated the *Sagarmatha*. He'd never trusted the skinnies, and in the end they had sided with Inaros - freely made the choice to align themselves with the greatest crime in all of history.
“Keep firing,” Vats shouted, through the chaos of the *Tripoli*’s bridge.
The ship groaned alarmingly, structural warnings appearing on his terminal display. Officers barked out panicked orders, but still the PDCs fired. They wouldn't go down without a fight.
He knew they wouldn’t survive, not without the Donnager-class to defend them in close quarters, but if they could whittle down the Free Navy fleet enough, maybe they would give the Martian reinforcements less to worry about.
The *Tripoli*’s rail guns were stilled, lacking the reserve power the Martians could bring to bear, but her torpedoes continued to fly at the approaching fleet. If anything more came from Medina they were done for.
The Martian reinforcements had launched, weapons streaming inward to add their strength to the battle. Not in time to save *Tripoli*, of course, but perhaps enough to make a difference, maybe enough to kill Inaros.
Vats watched the torpedo swarm draw closer, vectors aligning on the *Tripoli*. They’d been betrayed twice over.
*No, this is too much.*
He simply stared, dumbstruck, as the swarm arrowed towards his ship, overwhelming their PDCs with ease. He felt the *Tripoli* shudder beneath him as a massive impact struck them and screamed as he died.
You should write a book mate, awesome read!
That is incredibly well written. Holy fuck all I want now is another capital ship battle in the Expanse, They are supremely satisfying. That is the one thing that does often suck in the Expanse is that our main characters are rarely involved in capital ship engagements. All I want is a long battle where a Donnager slugs it out with another battleship, is that too much to ask?
@@aresthecrazy9335 I did, Google ascentuniverse
@@AnythingMachine and now I must find!
is this from the Expanse books or did you write it?
_"A lesser show would have forgotten about that."_
General Chang: "Cry havoc and let slip the documentation of warfare-transforming inventions!"
Too bad they cut out alot of the Mars plotine which would have included more ship battle scenes. Money isn't an excuse as Jeff Bezos is so rich and is a big fan of the series.
@@user-uy1rg8td1v Sadly, he isn't the only one to make the decision or we might have more seasons under his support.
@@user-uy1rg8td1v Money IS an excuse because the show operates on a modest budget and does not have a pipeline directly from Bezos' bank account. It's a minor miracle that it looks as good as it does.
(The minor miracle is partially powered by Jeremy Benning, Bret Culp, and several others who work damn hard to make every dollar count.)
Edelweiss edelweiss...
Kinda like how a certain someone "forgot" about the most powerful naval force in the world, leading to the loss of one of her strategic airborne ground attack reptiles?
The Expanse need to get more appreciation
People need to watch this show
Agreed, The story is complex, but well written! The TV-show has also put a tremendous amount of work in the details, and the Space Battles are spectaculairly stunning! Even the mássive Star-Wars franchise aint got NOTHING on the Expanse!
Ok, time, and technology are to the Expanse' advantage, still, if you compare this TV-show with the 'final trilogy' of SW, you'd almost ask the crude question; what the sandwich-f*ck was Disney doing or thinking?? THIS is what a Sci-fi space story needs to look like!
Real space combat is boring asf.
This battle actually helped me get back into writing. Seeing everyone in love with the scene inspired me to write my own space battle, as a practice.
I did something similar. I had one scene where hero ship detonates its own torpedo with beam cannon. Beam guns are very rare, so nobody expects that. Ship got EMPed temporarily, so heroes use that time to disable its engines. Basically razorback rescue scene
@@darkleome5409 Are you writing a book?
@@th3lonef0x4 oh yeah. At least, trying to.
this show and some great youtubers inspired me to create a realistic (no FTL or Clark-tech) Sci Fi world for a pen and paper rpg. its amazing how close we are to achieving a world similar to this. space is on the grasp of being ours.
@@fredconney2896 How far are you into creating the RPG?
The shot of the Sagarmatha riddled with holes yet still fighting ferociously broke my heart
My jaw was on the floor with that season finale.
Same
I couldn't sit down, was on my feet 90% of the time.
Was literally on the edge of my seat and clapping in my apartment by myself, lol
🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
It had a lot of good stuff but because I avoid spoilers I wasn't aware of the Cas Anvar drama and killing off Alex in post production looked as bad as it sounds to someone with no expectation and frankly ruined the episode for me.
@@dairallan I thought it was a perfect ending for Alex. Better that, than recast him, and they had little other choice.
Fun Fact: "Sagarmatha" is the nepalese word for Mount Everest, meaning "Goddess of the Sky".
You may even notice at the beginning of the shot she's featured in shows her perpendicular to the "surface" -- outer edge -- of the Ring Gate below her.
Could be coincidence. Could be good framing for the shot. Could be "hidden" attention to detail :)
Mmm... Poetic... Goddess of the Sky... I must remember that one.
Shows full of references like that, Marco Ineros sees himself as a great leader and his ship is named after the city that Alexander the Great was born in. Pella.
@@L8ugh1ngm8n1Symbolism is everywhere in the expanse. The booktitles always refer to the story eventhough they sound like gibberish at first
first book 'leviathian wakes' uses the old biblical sea creature to refer to the protomolecule
second book 'calibans war' refers to the hybrids.
(Caliban is the slave of a evil wizard in Shakespears play 'the Tempest')
third book 'Abbadons gate' is a rather obvious reference to the ring gate. The authors choose again to use a biblical creature. Abbadon is the gatekeeper to the underworld(sheol). The name itself can be translated from ancient hebrew as downfall or abyss.
the fourth book 'cibola burn' might sound like spicy mexican food but is actually a reference to a legendary civilisation of seven golden cities in northern mexico. This is a reference to the ruins on Illus.
The war between Inaros and the MCR-UN Alliance is described in book 6 titled 'Babylons ashes'. Obviously framing good ol' earth as a modern version of the decadent persian empire.
Spoiler In the 7th book the title 'persepolis rising' refers to the old persian seat of power (Babylon= earth) getting replaced by a new capital/dynasty called Laconia.
Book 8 is called 'Tiamats wrath'.
Tiamat the babylonian godess of saltwater is probably refering to the weird space-entities that wiped out the ringbuilder civilisation.
@@aramhalamech4204 Fantastic breakdown of the book names there mate, very nice
I like how this show doesn't just name ships off of greek or roman cultures only. It truly shows diversity by incorporating names from different cultures. Like nepal. Or thailand.
Really makes it much more immersive
There were so much details in the battle sequence I just kept re-watching it. It even made me understand the decisions made by Holden.
First, Holden knew they could not win, so just wanted to buy time for Alex to save Naomi and escape.
The moment Holden saw Tynan disable Dewalt, situation changed from 1 vs 5 to 2 vs 3. By realising there was a chance to win, he ordered Bull to turn around and fight. The question now, which ship should Holden target first? Out of the remaing 3, which were friends or foes? Then he saw Tynan target Koto, which immediate confirm his target as Koto. After taking out Koto, as Mowteng was not targeting him and Dewalt was disabled, this left with Serrio Mal as the obvious target. The decisions made by Holden was so on point, very impressive.
Imagine if he chooses to run away, or target Mowteng first, the outcome of the battle will be very different.
Poor Donnager class.
Every time we see one it just takes such a beating.
It's the only ship that CAN take such a beating.
@@cy-one
Indeed. It is an amazing ship!
Very realistic in that sense. Real-world military tech's favorite hobby is intimidating brick shithouses.
and dishes it out as well
I had to watch that Roci vs Free Navy space battle a couple times to understand what I was watching. Which ship was which and what ship they were firing on. I did end up getting it but I was definitely a bit confused about what was going on when i first watched it. Even before I understood it I thought it looked cool as hell and once I rewatched it I appreciated it even more.
Yes it took me awhile to figure out that the Roci was strafing the Serio Mal since all you saw was the nose of the ship as it let loose with the rail gun
Same here. The battle is awesome, but it's not perfect. There are a few scenes they could have added that would have made the engagement easier to follow on a first viewing. For example, they should've added a single up-close scene of the Roci firing its railgun to signal to the viewer that they're going to fire it repeatedly. It wasn't until the second viewing that I realized the Roci was constantly firing its railgun.
Same - I thoroughly enjoyed the battle as the characters' faces gave me the ups and downs of it, but I honestly didn't realise the Roci even engaged anyone, I thought they just sailed through firing cannons on defence to survive while Drummer's ships made the actual kills.
@@daiatnara971 I didn’t even realize the Roci fired it’s railgun till watching this video too
PLease tell me I'm going mad -> did Amazon re-edit this sequence?
When I first watched it, I saw the Heavy Frigate fire its PDCs at the belta missiles until the final one got through and took it out. Then I rewatched the sequence a couple of times, and I managed to spot a rail gun hit disable the Frigate the second before the final missile hit. It was really hard to see, because the eye was drawn to the PDC action - but it was there if you knew where to look.
What I did not see was the Rosci raking a rail gun shot right through the ship and blow it up.
A few days later I watched Spacedock's analysis, and saw several clips which were unfamiliar - closeups of the Rosci firing its rail gun, and that strike down the middle of the Frigate. I went back to Amazon and had another watch, and its now as summarised by Spacedock.
Either I have had a complete out of mind experience.... or there has been a sneaky re-edit. If its the latter, then its much better now as I had originally felt that sequence did a poor job of showing what was going on.
I literally climbed off the couch and sat directly in front of the TV line a small child for this episode. What a great finale.
Is the Expanse the best sci-fi TV show of all time?
Hmmm..
Yes, yes it fucking is.
SG1
For me it's easily YES; I'm so happy I lived to witness this beauty. Expanse is Definitely GOAT!
For me its TNG but this is a very close second
4 way Tie:
Battlestar Galactica (Both Versions), The Expanse, Star Gate SG1, &........
Mobile Suit Gundam Double O.
Hmm... Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Babylon5, Battlestar Gallactica... yeah, The Expanse fits very well among them.
I can honestly say that no other show has been able to keep me on the edge of my seat with every episode like the Expanse has. You can tell that the cast and crew really have a love for this and it shows.
You need to watch the Babylon 5 series. You aint seen nothing till you see this.
The moment right before the battle starts is really great - excellent character building:
They had a plan: push right through the middle to buy as much time as possible. Holden talked to Bull about it just moments before. How they don't fight to win.
Then, from one second to the next, the plan changed. Holden recognizes the opportunity and tells Bull to turn around and engage.
Any lesser pilot would have asked questions or complained. But Bull just did as he was told, without a comment.
Not even a second of screen time, but that's all we need to understand what an outstanding soldier Bull is!
7:25 “Middle Finger Energy” should be a bumper sticker. @spacedock get on that with merch people
One of the best parts of the expanse has always been it's hard take on space combat.
That's why it's my favorite sci fi series. Dark Matter took second place after I watched The Expanse
Very true even with the whole protomolecule plot angle. The story can be just about very detailed space fights and it would carry the show
@@freakybaby1012 yea I'd really kind of like a story that doesn't feel the need for anything super natural, just hard physics human politics etc.
But I'm enjoying expanse all the same
@@freakybaby1012 I've really liked Apple's for all mankind for a real science driven science fiction series. Gets a little weighed down with personal drama, but it does it well enough IMO
It's very difficult to get the relativistic speeds and distances involved in realistic space combat right in a tv show, but this one really makes a damn good effort. I really like how they handle long range visual contact as tiny specs of light from drive plumes. Which is exactly what you'd expect to see.
Haven't felt this awestruck by a TV space battle since the Babylon 5 episode "Severed Dreams" back in 1996.
And that was with 25 years ago technology. Severed Dreams is the best space battle!!
What about Galactica and Pegasus destroying the resurrection ship?
@@zoidberg444 Battlestar Galactica has some of THE BEST space battles I have ever and will ever see.
@@ConorDoesItAll I have to say the battle to destroy the resurrection ship is probably my favourite along with the battle of Thoth station in the expanse.
You ,,
The white star fleet..
Star fury 😘
The writer’s took notes from all previous syfy movies and shows. Kudos to the show.
They did not take notes from the recent Star Wars films. Kudos to that too.
@@fredwupkensoppel8949 and Discovery/Picard.
*SciFi (Syfy is the channel that keeps cancelling our beloved scifi series)
@@jellygoo cries in Stargate
This is one of the Best Sci-Fi series I've ever seen. Great attention to detail. I was blown away. I hope there is another season.
Seems unlikely, but it may possible get a movie series (i have no evidence for this except my own hope)
5:32 not only did they bother to animate the Roci's engines firing to account for the rail gun kickback in the close up shot of the Roci, they also show the exhaust trailing from the Roci in burst as it strafes around the enemy ship when the camera is positions close to the enemy ship.
Honestly, seeing the Sagarmatha still putting up a fight even after getting absolutely mauled by stealth meteors was a bit surprising and just goes to show how insanely tough the Donnagers are.
I don’t like it when a donnager ship gets destroyed 😢
Cowardice is not the enemy it was designed to deal with. It is a little bit heart-breaking.
Nor do the crew.
I still have nightmares of the Donnager herself going down in S1
At least they didn't make Barkeith a Donnager-class.
I'm certain we'll see one fight against a Magnetar battleship in S6, and all I want is for it to be glorious.
I agree . The physics detail in 'The Expanse' sets new standards.
What i like about the expanse is how they treat space, its not just a setting and is sidelined for character development or drama, its dead center of the story, how it affects characters and how it stir the story.
HELL YEAH. I named my dog after Holden. All your commentary was super on point. This video made me fall in love with the show all over again!
It was an amazing sequence, but I think the Thoth Station battle is still my favorite. That shot of the cabin filling with red bullet/debris streaks is just so iconic.
It is iconic.. it's also one of those little flaws in terms of reality. I wouldn't have them remove it though! :)
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom hows it a flaw?
I like the consistency of how effective the Martian PDCs are. The Roci has been shown to have really effective PDC coverage and we see here both the Koto and Serrio Mal take out all of the torpedos thrown at them, it’s the railgun that they can’t deal with.
I've been waiting for someone to do a detailed breakdown of this and so glad that it's Spacedock
The battle was a work of art from people who clearly love their jobs... Well done
..."All us Space Nerds to lose our minds over"... Boy you got that right!
I have watched this episode multiple times now on Amazon, and stopped and backed up and freeze-framed and marveled at the sheer awesomeness of this space battle sequence!! I just can't express how awesome this is.. OMG.. It just doesn't get much better than this!!
I remember finding this show during it's second season, and watching it with all of my fingers crossed - toes included - hoping it won't get cancelled due to lack of viewers, as I only met one guy that's a fan, and I'm pretty sure he started watching at my recommendation.
But it's people like you here that kept it going, with your endless (well deserved) praises. Well done, much love.
This show is so effing fantastic. In my opinion, it has the best space battles ever put to screen. Another moment I absolutely loved was when Holden used the Roci's torpedos to defend the razorback essentially acting as shields for it. That was absolutely genius. This show has continued to impress.
I only just discovered this channel, and I am absolutely blown away. Why can't there be more amazing quality content like this on the internet?
I will 100% be buying access to The Sojourn, if its anywhere near as high quality as the channel I will not be disappointed.
7:20 "sheer middle finger energy" is a new favourite expression of mine.
No idea where am I, or how I even got here... but hearing "extremely realistic" in middle of describing a spaceship battle, really made my day!
Ok. Spacedock you talked me into it. I'm about to binge watch The Expanse. Every single episode !!! And I'm expecting Greatness !!!
These two battles were fucking AMAZING and incredible to watch when they dropped. The mutineer fight had so much going on it was almost hard to track. Brutal, efficient, short. The gate fight... made me so sad, but it was such a great, short battle.
The only issue I had is that I would have like the fight last a little longer.
Yeah... that's been my issue with every space battle in sci-fi television though.
My first answer is budget. Hahaha.
But my second is less facetious.
Honestly, even with budget I don't think it'll make sense to make it go on too much longer.
From a film-making/script standpoint you have to be careful to not get bogged down in exposition. Each second with film must be telling a story, more concisely it must be developing the plot, a character, or both.
Take season 1 with the Donnie. The entire battle was much longer, but that worked because Holden was trying to convince Capt. Mao of their innocence, bargain for the others lives whilst also contemplating Naomi's background. Furthermore, Teresa Mao was also going through her own short arc coming to realise that she underestimated the incoming ships and lost the initiative and advantage, leading to them being out matched which for all intents and purposes was not supposed to be possible. Martian arrogance was put on display and their established technological supremacy had been usurped. She was a motif reflecting the greater Martian society among the superpowers of humanity amidst a huge powershift.
With all of that taking place at once, the pacing felt fast yet even.
From a realism standpoint.....
Movies have a tendency to make fights last longer then what they do for real, especially sword fights and aerial battles.
A sword fight is over after 3 or 5 moves in the real world. Most "dogfights" are over before they start, and those that aren't usually end within a minute, and if they don't end in that time resolve into two planes turning in circles stuck in a stalemate.
A full naval engagement (and beyond visual aerial engagement) can be lengthy, but only with respect to the overall amount of time from when the first shot is fired to one vessel sinking. The "interesting" bits are only seconds in length with a lot of down time in between. This is less true with aerial warfare due to the manuevering involved but still.
The only exception to this ironically is submarine warfare where the zig-zagging for the knuckels, noise makers and decoys launched to spoof slow moving homing torpedoes is a series of events that CAN take place in a very busy 5 or 10 minutes. This is however very very very unlikely. For all intents and purposes most sub engagements will end with an unsuspecting vessel spontaneously combusting without having a clue as to why.
I do have my moments where I wish to see more eye candy and cool shit. However I have to remind myself that what we're seeing is part of a greater narrative, not an analysis. Furthermore, it being longer will take away from one of the defining reasons why we love it, that being its gritty realism.
The thing is fights usually dont last long, swordfights or spacefights, you want the fight to end as quick as possible to avoid exhaustion.
In Roci vs Free navy it would be quick because its 5v1 anyway, but with drummers betrayal its over quick because it effectively splits the into 3v3 and Drummer is flanking the other three and gets a free shot into Dewala. Its an ambush esssentially. And so is battle for the ring. UN established that it has little presence around the ring because they pulled their ships back home or around belter strongpoints. They are rellying on the fact that Marco wont have enough ships to beat three capital ships in a straight fight, and he doesnt. He first severely wounds them with meteor storm and then medina station and Laconian fleet. Once again, one side is being ambushed now it's from three sides. Its a spectacle, but the shortness of the fight serves to show how a well-executed betrayal is supposed to work.
I needed longer because it was difficult to discern who was shooting at what sometimes
I think the fact that we keep wantng more space battles shows less is more. Space battles are a big deal and hundreds die in an encounter of of any significance. They should be rare as they would be in real life.
The biggest change this season is how they've finally figured out how to shoot space battles. Seasons 1-3 they were constantly moving the camera and ships, which meant the viewer had no frame of reference in the infinite black of space so it looked like everything was moving.
This season, and a bit of last, they have stopped moving the camera so much, and are instead keeping the frame of reference viable, so it's much easier to understand the relative motion of everything.
Man I’m so sad I haven’t discovered your channel until now. As an enormous sci-fi and in particular The Expanse fan, lamenting the end of what I consider to be the best sci-fi show ever put to screen, I am here devouring more Expanse-related content so I don’t have to admit that it’s gone. Thanks for these breakdowns. It’s wonderful to see someone take the time to point out the details the casual observer may miss.
I don't even watch the Expanse but this is brilliant writing and "realistic" Science Fiction to its core.
So what are you waiting for? Watch it!
@@23AlexandreJ Still on BSG.
@@AFNacapella Done the 2eps miniseries & S1. Brilliant series thus far.
I just love how quick and brutal the battles are. Like two samurai, one minor mistake and its done. Over in the blink of an eye.
"You always must have a knife in the darkness."
I had a tough time in Dec, and time on my hands, so with nothing better to do I started the Expanse (as show I saw only 1 episode of from my NBC days). Not only did it put me in a better mood, but I think it single handed saved SciFi TV for me. So happy this is getting the credit is deserves.
As a 5 decade hard core Science Fiction addict I can definitely say the Expanse is absolutely the top SciFi television series ever.
The accuracy to detail including the physics that 99 percent of shows get wrong is astounding.
Several book authors have refused to allow follow on books in series to be made because producers screwed the pooch with their adaptations.
Tho one the author an rest assured justice was done by everyone on the development and production teams right down to cast choices and costume designs.
Bobbi has to be the hotest Marine ever.
Completely agree. This season was pretty fucking great. Also, the music in that final space battle was minimal at first, slowly building and frankly masterful. Definitely added to it.
I jumped up in my seat, yelled "Yeah!", and fist-pumped! I'm a pretty reserved guy, but the sequence was just so readable and immersive. Honestly can't think of any other time I've been so thrillled watching this level of CGI action.
Reading the Expanse books and The Hunt for Red October has spawned a somehwhat unusual sci-fi story Ive been working on: Space Combat that retains some of the high-speed, long-distance methodical elements of the combat in the Expanse, but is stylized like submarine combat. The battles revolve around detection and stealth, but happen within the rules of space combat. Thanks SpaceDock for getting me into this show, and for for your video essay "How to Write a Space Battle" that really got this idea going for me!
Gorgeous video. But I have a question. Where do you get these concept art from? Can I link to the source?
in amazon prime, there's a feature called "X-Ray" which shows concept art, behind-the-scenes, and even bonus videos (steven strait discusses the eps with a few cast members and naren shankar).
The both battle scenes of the last episode were mind blowing, thank you Daniel you've done yourself proud. "So say we all"
God, when the Tripoli went down I felt it. I really love the Truman class
I did too. I know everyone really gushes over the Donnager, and all the MCRN ships are just beautiful to be sure, so the love is well deserved. Nonetheless, I'm sure there are also other folks that have a sweet spot for the veteran UNN Dreadnoughts. The Montenegro and the Tripoli also kept fighting on to the bitter end and were also only taken out by torpedoes coming from turncoats.
Finally someone !
Everyone is just weeping about Donnager class, like wtf, they all went down heroically ..
Love how you are so intelligent and aware of the details. Nicely done.
i like how the battle at The Ring showed the Banisher PDC system on the Donnager at work, those short overlapping bursts of PDC fire were amazing.
If You are a fans of Expanse you need to listen to Ty and that guy podcast. Amos and Ty Frank are hosting it talking in details about each episode of the show
Thank you Expanse team for bringing us such a beautiful show!
We need separate vids for Drummers fleet, the Pella, and the Serrio Mal... This season was a shiplovers dream!!! I was aslo trying to find a size comparison between the donnager class and the truman class
Daniel's done force recon videos on both the Truman and the Donnager, and lengths are stated.
@@Sirithil I know, I want a visual
The only criticism i have of the expanse spacecraft is the lack of reaction mass (fuel tanks) that even SUPER EFFICIENT plasma drives would need as a proportion of the vehicle mass...especially in vehicles that are capable of continuous acceleration to simulate grAVITY
Holy crap! When I watched this battle on my own, I didn't think much of it. Wasn't bad by any means, but it didn't elicit the "whoa!" that I got watching the original Donnager battle or the Roci vs. Stealth ship. Watching this analysis revealed a ton of awesome detail that I missed. It makes the whole thing just way more impressive. Thank you very much for an awesome analysis!
Thank you for making this video. I didn’t realize I could enjoy watching it frame by frame so much. You guys are brilliant and I knew you were bound to do a commentary for this season. Best wishes from California.
The way this battle sequence is done is almost like watching Japanese mech animes like Gundam or Macross. They too like to squeeze in details that people often not pick out at first glance, but each time you revisit you find new details and realize how much love the team puts into it.
Your videos and excitement have been one of the primary reasons I've started watching The Expanse, albeit a few years late
If Force Recon is still on, I’d love to see a breakdown of Drummer’s fleet and the new Martian ships!
Plus he still hasn't covered several important ship classes from the earlier seasons as well = eg. the UNN warships that open fire on the Scirocco at Ganymede.
Wow !!! ... I've been so politicized the last ten or few months ... haven't watched a Spacedock in waaaay too long.
Thank you for still being here. I needed this. Can't wait to take in what I've missed.
The Expanse ships really remind me of Homeworld's ships, in a good way. Maybe with some Nexus - The Jupiter Incident thrown in for flavor.
You strike me as a person, who likes games with space combat. Can you recommend me a game in which predominantly conventional weaponry are used? Like missiles, railguns, pdc's, etc.
@@katamarankatamaranovich9986 There's an upcoming game named "Falling Frontier" that might interest you.
@@legik0143 yeah, I stumbled into it a couple of weeks ago, looks cool as hell. On the sidenote, Star sector has combat with PDCs, railguns, artillery pieces and direct energy weapons. It's still further into the future, so there are some shields and plasma guns, but in fight they inevitably fail, which leads to CQC. PDCs ripping into side of enemy ship, taking out guns and engines is a sight to behold. Also, I really enjoy launching long-range guided anti-shield missiles, then, once enemy ship is overloaded, getting in close and finishing it up with single-shot dumb jihady launchers. A single close-range volley and otherwise perfectly fine ship is, literally, ripped to pieces.
@@katamarankatamaranovich9986 While Infinity: Battlescape does use shields and anti-shield weaponry and therefore not exactly conventional weaponry. The shields only deflect damage based on their current strength. Kinetic weapons also ricochet on hit. So you can look into that one.
Thank you for that breakdown Daniel. It was so difficult to follow the flow of battle as it happened. So easy to miss all the little things.
I'm going to have to go back and watch the Expanse again just for the great battles and acting. I'm hoping that the success of this show will FINALLY teach the big movie studios how to do proper space battles.
I've watched many sci fi shows in my life. Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, and many more.
The Donnager class is one of my personal favourite ship designs of all time. Its simply gorgeous.
Spoiler warning
I also like how cleanly they took out Alex. It was a possibility the story allowed for and previously explained. The aftermath felt organic.
I didn't even know about the 'real' reason for it until after watching. I agree. One of those 'not everyone dies a good death' moments, and gives real weight to the risk of high g maneuvers
I completely agree. I also loved how flawed it was, it was a perfect testament to the character.
Alex saved his friends and the system multiple times, but still abandoned his family making them believe he was dead. Brave and Cowardly in equal measure. Which is possibly the most human of traits. His last conversation with his wife, where she says “ You don’t get to know, we don’t owe you any closure” feels absolutely authentic. It’s unfinished business, which is as Amos said “that’s what dying is”. Sometimes we don’t get to close everything with a clean ending...and that’s perfectly human.
@@MrTiptopten I do love how at the end Holden talks about his wife wanting to make funeral arangements with full military honors. Shows she maybe forgave a small part of his actions.
@@Nixxomatic I mean, Alex’ actions did save all of humanity so...
@@Nixxomatic that was a nice touch. Not quite closure, but some showed she really still cared in some way
The show is pretty accurate, but the books are even more so. There is a lot of stuff discussed in the books in regards to space battles that they just can't really discuss in video battle. The authors of the book can run a master class of, "here's all things you deal with in space that you'd never think of until its too late".
It’s still really painful to see that Alex Kamal is gone... I’m gonna miss the Roci’s space cowboy. I was really hoping he just fell unconscious from the burn. If Cas Anvar reads this, you were amazing, cowboy.
It was the biggest led down of the season imo, but one that was handled very very well given the off screen circumstances so I give it a pass. Can't be easy improvising plot like that on the fly and well into post-production.
...wasn't...the reason why Alex got written off the show is because he *wasn't* a good person? Like, I love the character, but if the actor's a POS, he's gotta go for everyone else's sake. It sucks, but it is on him for...being...a dipshit.
@@davidcolby167 Sexual harassment and emotional abuse put bluntly.
@@davidcolby167 I'm a firm supporter of innocent until proven guilty. Far to many actors getting fired over political views and baseless sexual harrassment claims. I don't know if the claims where baseless or not but considering there was no legal action taken I'm thinking baseless.
@@beny874 No....accusations. I believe innocent until proven guilty. If it wasn't more than he said she said then legal action would have also been taken.
Excellent video! The whole Roci battle goes by so quickly that it's good to see it slowed down, blow by blow.
The scene with the Donnager holding off the fleet of the free navy by its self basically was just so beautifully done i love the Martians and their ship designs
Also if you look closely at the front of the Donnager you can see them firing off their own torpedos
THANK YOU for this walkthrough! Everything went so fast that i couldn't track the details and nuances. I needed this break down!!!
"Held together through sheer middle finger energy." That is how you describe a Donnager! in fact i'm going to get that on a T-shirt! or you guys should put it on one for your merch. So sad S6 is going to be the last series, will it cover babylon Ashes to Tiamats Wrath and what about the 9th book? I hope S6 will be more episodes or longer ones if its covering the last 3 released books. Also will Bull replace Alex's role in the series?
S6 is not going to be the last season, it is just going to go on a hiatus
@@MrAnthonyDraft See everything i have read says it is and Vernon Sanders Co-head at Amazon studios has released a statement say season 6 would be the final season amazon makes. that was 3 weeks ago so has something changed since then?
@@danielbeck2739 I could imagine an in-universe propaganda poster or two being made after the Ring battle with those themes.
Mars in the back, overlayed by a sihouette / vector of the MCRN Sagarmatha, and a stylized *HELD TOGETHER BY SHEER MIDDLE FINGER ENERGY* as the headlines lmao.
Already a lot to cover, so I seriously hope it goes for three more seasons. That might be enough to get everything in without rushing, depending on the scope of the last novel. One season is just laughable though. They might do it anyway, but that would automatically be a bit of a letdown.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 sadly Amazons co head announced the other month that season 6 would be the last one amazon makes. Unless it gets picked up by say Netflix, which is what it was originally on in the UK. That I sadly doubt we will get anymore. But saying that Lucifer has been revived twice, it was canceled but save by Netflix, season 5 was meant to be the last but Netflix commissioned another due to is popularity. So it could happen to the expanse.
Also interesting is the different makes of torpedos. While we are used to stolen and smuggled martian/earth torpedos that were on board the roci and supplied by tycho, both the free navy belter ships and drummer's battlegroup use torpedos that barely use manouvres and are used in larger volumes. It seems belters have their own line of bootleg torpedos that favour travel speed and most likely pricing and ease of production over effectiveness. Hence why the belter ships in this season seem to dump everything at once. That philosophy even seems to translate to the free navy martian ships. Even though they now have martian torpedos they waited a long time before dumping all torpedos at once, most likely ingrained into the free navy captains by experience with less advanced equipment.
First comment. Definitely the best space battle of the expanse. ( referring to the ring gate)
I missed most of the Drummer squadron battle because I was cooking and couldn't pay as much attention. I'm definitely rewatching it.
sorry bruv lol
The amount of detail and authenticity put into the space battles is mindblowing. Most of the stuff happening went totally by me.
I'm just a tiny bit disappointed the Sagarmatha Donnager didn't pull a 40k move and went full ramming speed when it was severely damaged to catch the free navy in the reactor blast.
its engines were already gone.. no way to ram
@@ZakhadWOW they still fired off a few rail gun shots so it should have atleast enough thrust to balance it out.
@@Lastburn I think at that point they don't care much about counteracting the railgun blasts. they're far enough away from the ring that its not gonna just shoot them back into it, and even if it does give them some backwards momentum, they would have either won or lost the battle long before they passed through
The inverse square law strikes again!
You need to be *shockingly* close to another ship for even a massive explosion to damage another ship, because of the way radiation propagates through a vacuum.
oh, also, railguns would impart relatively little momentum to a ship of that size.
Not mentioned in this video but the acting was superb (Drummers shock when she realised the missiles weren't going to make it) and the music completely makes the scene.
"The donnager class is capable of being held together by shear middle finger energy".
Best analogy ever 😂
Also when Drummer fires on the Koto and it starts shooting down the torpedos, the music gave me Mad Max Fury Road vibes.
feel free to ignore me but since I see that you were willing to edit the comment already I'm just going to point out it should be "sheer" instead of "shear"
Started watching this programme at the beginning of last year and by god this is the greatest sci fi show ever. Love the show love the cast love everything about it. It truly is spectacular from start to finish. So good I’ve watched the entire 5 seasons 3 times in a row. Can’t wait for the next season to come.
Great breakdown, I love it. Star Trek really needs to take a look at the way The Expanse presents space combat.
No, the weapons and tech used are completely different.
@@mandellorian790 more like you're a bad comment
If they did that, they'd lose viewers because it's non-canon and not as flashy if you don't know what to look for. Few people appreciate physics in their space battles
i had never noticed before, but the PDCs have a small exhaust on the back to prevent their firing from causing the ships to rotate. the detail on this show is awe inspiring
Sheer middle finger energy, lmao. And it probably would have survived if it hadn’t been for Mediena