I think you’re a little light on that price big guy. I do this same work and love jobs like this but they can bite you. First cut the grass and. weeds down low so you can see potential problems better. Add that time somewhere and in your bid. Then you need to do an 811 call and get it located and marked. Trust me. Then bucket work to get stuff like that concrete out and push those piles over. Then power rake the snot out of whole place. Lots of passes. Get it graded out like you want it and get that dirt nice and fluffy. That might take day. Bucket & Rake. After you seed and before you straw you need to drag harrow the seed/fert. A piece of old chain link fence or something that will pull a little dirt over the seed. There’s more time. Then straw. Keep in mind that straw often introduces weed seed from the field where it was cut. If your slope isn’t bad and so runoff/erosion is minimal you might not need straw. For me I think I’d budget about 16-18 hours. Mowing 2 hrs. Machine work 8-10. Seeeding & Finishing 5-6 hrs. Don’t forget you have that loading and unloading time as well. I’m closer to $2k plus materials on this in north Texas.
The only thing I would add to the bid would be prep time/ the time it takes to load up all the equipment and travel time to and from the job. With the cost of Biden fuel these days you have to figure that into your expenses. Great video Brock, keep them coming.
Seconded. Also don't forget your time and mileage going to look at the property, going to the dump, and lowes. You may have another $30 just in fuel cost alone with all that running.
Brock you may be interested in watching a couple of videos from Brian's landscaping on UA-cam. He goes into some detail about the hidden cost of doing business and so did Tim from Tractor time with Tim.
I would add a dump truck of top soil delivered so you can back fill holes and slopes and have fresh dirt to work with. Working with existing will only get you so far
Lots of great comments and feedback. I would definitely recommend telling the customer that unless we get some rain the grass seed won’t do much good. Fall would be the best time to seen, but I understand they want the property leveled and mow able.
Nice channel name. I would agree on not seeding right now. I put it in there because he was specific in requesting it graded with seed and straw. Probably better to have that conversation though
II think a transport fee as a deposit that is not refundable makes sense. Where you break down fees, don’t list the prices, just everything involved. For example material haul off, in the details, explain what is covered in more detail, but no pricing: collect and remove debris from site and dispose of at approved locations for each material type. For equipment work like leveling/grading, again in the details, no prices, just details explaining the work. I would add another equipment category to remove debris from site and load on trailer. Getting that crap off the property and on your trailer is in addition to the time it will take to drive to the dump and back. It will take a fair amount of time to get that crap out of there and on your trailer. Then the one to do the actual grading to prepare for seeding. Finally, the big one that many will argue about is hourly pricing: I say don’t do it. If you estimate in your head a 6 hour time for something, fine, but in the quote, just list the total cost, without the hours. So for loader work, just have a price, no units or hours. The customer may ask how long will it take, and you can give the total time of the complete job, but you aren’t married to that time if you bid the job, not the hours. Plus, if you take longer, they aren’t going to pay more, but if you finish faster, they will often want to pay less. Don’t bid by the hour…😀
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. I made some adjustments and increase the total cost by a couple hundred dollars. They accepted and I will be recording myself doing this job next week so we will see how I fare on it
I like the honesty you bring to your videos but remember to add profit into your calculation. At the end of the day/week/month/year... you got to keep your lights on and food in the fridge. I realize your income is not totally reliant on these jobs but if you are trying to pass along a guideline of how to bid jobs you should do more than just cover the costs associated with each job. Set a percentage of income you intend to make after all costs have been paid and factor that into each bid. If you don't get the job because you were under bid then so be it, that only means that the jobs you are getting are making you profit. That's my 2 cents worth
I ended up going up a couple hundred dollars on the bed and the customer has excepted it. I feel like I’m getting better at making sure the jobs are profitable. The problem I think I still have is everything looks like it’ll be quick and easy and then it actually isn’t. If I think I can do it in one day it seems really profitable but then when it takes three days to do the job it’s not profitable at all
I ended up going up a couple hundred dollars on the bed and the customer has excepted it. I feel like I’m getting better at making sure the jobs are profitable. The problem I think I still have is everything looks like it’ll be quick and easy and then it actually isn’t. If I think I can do it in one day it seems really profitable but then when it takes three days to do the job it’s not profitable at all
Good info, hope you win the bid! Probably would include setup/loading/unloading time into a calculation somewhere. You could always refer them to one of your job prep video's to see how much is involved to justify the increase in price!
It cost me $828 for a skid steer with Harley rake for 8 hours use. That’s for them to deliver and pick back up plus 12 gallons of fuel to fill back up. So that’s right at $900 just for one day of grading work just for equipment. No profit what’s so ever. 1 load of topsoil costs me around $650 per load in my area. Your going to need starter fertilizer for the grass seed to get started. But I’d do it at time of planting plus do it again in 30 days and have that be part of the price. The hauling fees, fertilizer, seed, topsoil, two days of work minimum possum three days. Going to need bucket, and grapple for clearing. Plus need all utilities marked and ask about septic tank if any. Don’t want to have that heavy skid steer on that and fall in. Also smaller yards are hard to maneuver skid steers in may need to rent a stand on skid steer. My bid $5500 minimum and plan on3 days things do come up to regrade whole yard add top solid seed and fertilizer plus the grading and hauling off. Also may have to have a silt fence installed can’t have any dirt on roads EPA will have a fit if you get caught but it looks flat to me so may not be much of an issue. What about irrigation? Any underground sprinklers to worry about? Get utilities marked! Don’t trust homeowners they lie or just don’t really know.
There are different quality levels you can do on any job depending on what the customer is looking for You could bid it to just haul off the material but leave it uneven. You could do the bid like I gave with leveling The dirt that is already there and putting down seed. You could bring in topsoil and then seed it. You could strip off what is there and put down sod. All of those have much different prices You could also offer to make sure it drains and to put in irrigation. This is not that kind of neighborhood though and I talked to the guy on the phone About what he wants. I will be surprised if he is willing to pay what I bid it at, So I’m really not expecting to get the job. In a nicer newer subdivision someone might spend that 5500 or more, but there’s not a manicured yard on this block. There is a house across the street that has been condemned and is waiting to be knocked down
Nice video. I enjoy the fact that you are so detailed in laying out your thought process. Personally, I have no intention of doing work for someone else, but when you own equipment that possibility always exists. And knowledge is knowledge! Looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you. Good luck!
Nice breakdown Brock. I think it’s a fair bid for your approach. I’d be tempted to till that yard and cultipack it. I’m really curious to see how it goes so I’m really hoping you get the job. I’ve only done one big seed job like this because I’m very wary of customers that won’t water and keep up with it to get a good germination and maturation. Usually I’ve done the prep and the customers have seeded themselves. The big job I did seed was about 1.5 acres and full of obstacles, and when I drive by I can see the customer didn’t follow through with water or anything. My only word of advice there is to be very clear with them that the outcome of the grass is heavily dependent on the water and care provided after you finish.
Good points. It could be done with the tractor and tiller I did mention to the customer that I didn’t expect the grass to do well in this heat. I think their primary focus is on the leveling and haul off But they want me to put the seed down anyway
Hey Brock, Nice job-walk and bid break down! Don't sell yourself short Brock. This type of work is commonly done by a landscaper contractor. And I doubt none of your local landscapers would bid this job for $1,600. I think you should add at least 25% to your bid. You may be one of the new players in the game for your area. But that does not mean you should under sell yourself! You always do your best, put your customers first and go Above and Beyond!!! I wish you much success in all your endeavers to support yourself, family and friends!!! thx, tommy
The leveling and loading of the trailer is going to take a lot more time. Also that area with the weeds might be an old septic tank. Or even worse that whole area might be the neighbor’s septic. It rare but could be a possibility. Also take into consideration the cost of maintenance and wear and tear on your machines
I recommend boots, long pants, and a probing stick to check on things hidden in long grass! Pretty risky in most parts on the country without these precautions.
I definitely wouldn't waste the time weedeating that pile first. Drive in and scoop it out. Just watch the fence and if your material starts to get close, back drag it out. When doing bids like this, whether it's machine work or interior renovations, I like to include "up to" wherever possible. This ensures you don't lose out on any money in the end. Say it only takes you an hour and a half to spread seed and straw, a picky customer might demand taking that $25 off. If you put in the quote that the $100 includes up to two hours, you are guaranteed that money even if it only takes ten minutes. Think of it like bidding one flat rate for the job, but also leaving it open to go up if it takes longer so you're not losing money they way either. I perform the work as described in the bid and if it starts to look like that won't be enough I will discuss with the customer whether they want me to continue or make it the best I can with the time allotted.
IF every thing is as it appears (Thats a big IF ) you will do ok...but, you didn't go thru all this trouble and expense of financing all your equipment and work and worry , to just do ok...( Your price for your labor is a minimum of $25 per hour low ) I haven't seen any disclaimer for " Unseen or hidden hinderences " that are not covered under this quote that would be at an added cost that would be dicussed and agreed upon prior to completion . You need to add some verbiage Brock to cover the unexpected for YOUR protection , remember your priorities #1.) Be safe #2.) be profitable #3 )don't neglect your family over your new found career ( it can happen ) Good video...We are excited to see where this goes! ( You do have your LLC buisness liability insurance covered in overhead costs and is stand alone separately from your personal finances or your other business's ) pc
Good morning! A couple things you need to account for which you have talked about loading time and unloading time. Normally if your using equipment there is a flat fee for each piece. If you are using the skid on a job $250 just for bringing it to the job. Then if you need the tractor too another $150. Then I would figure in gas and maintenance. What does it cost per hour to run said equipment. A gallon of diesel per hour 6 hours on the job. Plus oil changes and stuff would be like $15-$20 extra per hour. If using equipment.
I use a three step method. Guess after you hear the info. Then walk through the jobs and make another educated guess, then I itemize each thing and add travel and fuel. If all three aren't close to each other I have made a mistake somewhere. Once I identify the error I they should all match pretty closely.
Remember that you have to get the extra supplies like the grass seed, and straw. I hope that you include that. Plus not to mention the cost of fuel on the truck.
The contractor mix grass seed, in my experience, is predominantly clover. Mostly used to inhibit erosion during land disturbing operations. What is the software you are using for the quote/invoice?
I am using Jobber. Just started with it but it seems pretty handy. It allows you to send quotes and invoices by text or email and the customer can pay the invoice with a credit card
2000.00 makes sense in my head for doing the work but it would be sticker shock for the person that has to pay for it. You could run into shallow phone and fiber cables if you cut into the yard. Some places around me, the techs just slot the ground with a 6 inch edger and push it under the dirt.
You’re supposed yo call 811 before you dig, free service marks everything out. Just takes few weeks for them to actually show up. Most legit companies won’t do anything with out things marked. Liability
Thank you for sharing that info. I increased it by a couple hundred dollars and the customer excepted the bid so I will be doing this job in an upcoming I think my biggest problem with bidding jobs is underestimating how long it takes to do the work
I agree. I actually increased my bid a little bit and the customer accepted it but I really think I should’ve tried to include bringing in some dirt. I’m concerned that just grading out the existing dirt is going to leave this yard setting lower maybe something I can approach the customer about When I see how it’s coming out
Did that corner have an old garage or building located on it? Are there any old utilities on the property that you have to be concerned about? Was there a building on the lot at one time and you will have to deal with buried building foundations/material? I'm just curious what was on the property or if it had always been vacant. I would be concerned that there use to be buildings there and that you are going to find a lot of hidden items.
I believe there was. I will of course going to have the utilities marked but I won’t be surprised if I find more than I bargained for. Thanks for watching
Stanley "Dirt Monkey" Genadek just put out a video yesterday that might help you do some pricing. It looks like it is hard to figure everything out hope this will help, thank you.
ty for the good video. Maybe I overlooked it but what pieces of equipment exactly will you bring to the site and what is the cost to mobilize and demob them. 2. Personally I feel a Harley Rake and a Grader attachment are fairly costly items. Would it be wise to cost them out differently then say just running the skid loader with a bucket?
It looks like a foundation so I would talk them into filling or capping over with topsoil. Instal a gravel calculator on your phone and you can plug in what it will cost . I think u should use your laser lever and see what it is . How perfect do they want it ? . I'd say $2200 . Their is always hidden costs.this is just my thoughts. 🤪todd
Not far off at all.I would charge 2200-2400.All inclusive.20% markup on all handled materials.I always refer to aggregate calculator on my phone when quoting,can't beat it.
I’ve only had this machine a few months and I’m just getting started. Right now I’m taking whatever kind of jobs I can get. Since I’m not that experienced I may not do it the most efficient way but I get the job done On this job I will try to scrape off the high spots and dump them in the low spots and the track over it 100 times. Then I will run the Harley rake to smooth everything out
That would be better, but I don’t know that the customer wants to pay for that. I think of it as there are levels of service. The premium service would be to skim off the top layer and bring in topsoil and put down sod but we’re definitely not in that kind of neighborhood As I’m sitting here thinking about it, It really would be better to bring in topsoil so that this area doesn’t sit lower than the surrounding yards
To me that depends on the size of the job. You can itemize it in all different ways When I finish the job I will know if I bid enough and I will adjust for the next one Thanks for watching
I don't see the time your figuring and charging for loading out the waste material (with the TL), $75 for labor and fuel combined is likely just the travel time from the site to dump and back, what about the $125/hr time on the TL loading out, x2 loads. and the $75 for the truck and dump trailer time seems light as well, one flat tire and you have wiped that out. I also would not figure your price based on the lower dumping fee, you know there is going to be trash under all that somewhere, you are assuming all the risk here, just quote based on the higher number so you don't get burned on it if the dump charges the higher rate (you don't want to argue with them, you'll need that location and service for your future work) $55 / ton x 5 tons = $275 dump fee which would wipe out your fuel and labor and cost you another $25......, if you get the lower rate, then that covers some other "overrun". And as others have said, where is the time for preparing, loading equipment, actually getting the supplies. I would think $2,500 would be a better number for you, and I am likely still to cheap. You have 10 hrs figured in, without prep time (~2 hrs) or debris loading time (~2 hrs) = 14 hrs, so say 2 full days of labor ($1,000 / day) + costs ($275+$275+345= $895) = $2,895....... So forget my previous # and quote it at $2,950 (to avoid saying $3k) You'll likely have ~$900 out of pocket expenses + fuel in the truck and TL, so your current quote may only leave you with ~$800 for 2 days work..... or ~$400 a day (~$50 / hr for 16 hrs of work, much of it with a $$$$$ TL & $10k Harley rake). Remember, you'll be bringing ~$150K worth of assets to this job (truck, dump trailer, TL, bucket, Harley rake, etc....), your not hauling a $20k tractor with a box blade on a landscape trailer behind a beat-up 1/2 ton pickup. And if you get EVERY job you bid, you are under pricing for sure (I am guilty of this big time as well, I need to take some of this advice as well). Hopefully this helps, look forward to the video for it! Have a good one Brock!!
@@RockhillfarmYT Glad you got the job, look forward to the video. I seem to continually under price my work, mostly based on time it takes (sometimes if I think about how long it will actually take, the less interested I am in getting started...). So it was sort of written for both of us, it is easy to overlook some things and marginalize the "little" parts of the job that don't get noticed (loading, etc.), but they add up to more time that we think. Keep plugging away at it and you will get a better feel for how long everything takes (yep, that is for me too!).
@@RockhillfarmYT My primary work is engineering, residential & small commercial architectural, structural and civil engineering. Mostly split between septic design and structural beam design (with posts and footings). But I also do stormwater management design and site plans for small commercial (though I am trying to stay away from those as they take so much unknown time due to all the different agency reviews....). I went out on my own with that back in 2017 and have been "learning" the business side of it ever since (still a ways to go there). That said, I have done a countless number of building projects for people outside of the day job for an Architect ('99 till a little after the bubble burst) , then an Engineer ('11 till end of '17, 6 month overlap of 2 full-time jobs). While those paid okay for "side hustle" work, I never managed to price them to cover "all of the time spent" on them. This is still an issue to some extent, but I am working on it, slowly it seems.... Now I am altering the "side hustle" (can it really be called that since I am the only one in my business already, so the "additional hat I am wearing") to include the "new-to-me" tractor I picked up (Kioti DK50SE cab) and actually-new mini-ex (CAT 302CR), plus a B-Wise 10k lb, 7x12 dump trailer and EBY 10k aluminum 7x20 equipment trailer (new-to-me). I have not gone "commercial" with those at this point, as I am really too busy with the engineering work, but want to "get out" more to break things up. I have been helping the neighbors with the equipment, when I am not tearing things up here, and the set-up time and put-away time is far longer than I ever figure it will be, not even worrying about the actual "work" time. So you are really further along on this journey than I am, but I have been trying to figure out what costs would be involved for things I have done, time spent and the "hidden costs" of the business portion of doing that work. And doing that before and after I have helped the neighbors, and comparing them, my before is still not matching up with the after...... yet???? Still working on getting there. I think what you said about Dirt Perfect saying you should be looking at $1,000 a day as a really good starting point (labor only, & fuel in the equipment?), travel fuel, materials (getting them as well), outside fees (dump fees, delivery charges) should all be additional. Then look at the time you think it will take, including setup and put-away (at least those might cover any extra time something took you weren't counting on). Then look at that time in "days", sure you might be able to get the work done in 6 hours or so, but if you can't start first thing in the morning or it takes a little longer, that one day project is now two days (now your unloading and loading on the jobsite at least twice, = more time spent), if something takes 10 hrs, that's surely going to be more than one day, so can you get anything else done the second day with the time left (half a day or more). If a job takes 3/4's of a day, can you really get to another job for the other 1/4 of the day, this comes back to not charging any work by the hour (you only short change yourself doing that), round up by the day (or 1/2 day on less than 2 day projects, little less than 1.5 day project = 1.5 project, little more than 1.5 day = 2 day project, little less than 2.5 day = 3 day project, and so on adding full days). I'd be interested to hear yours or anyone else's thoughts on this, assuming this is not a "side-hustle" to make some cash, but a real business to make a living. And that may be the biggest jump that needs to be considered (for me too), doing work with this "level" of equipment needs to be more about making a living doing it, not some extra cash. The initial, maintenance, repair, replacement and insurance costs are all big numbers here, so those things require a real cost from a customer for you to risk on their project (that may be poor said but hopefully you get what I am trying to say). That may have been more than you were asking for, but there it is. Keep doing what your doing, I'd certainly like to see your do really well with it!!
Sounds like you have a nice equipment set up to get started with. I love my skid loader but sometimes I still question if a mini ex would’ve been the better machine to start with. Right now everything I’m doing is a trial but I’m hoping that in 5 years we are a full scale excavating business and my sons working with me My biggest problem is “just winging it”. In general that way of doing things has worked out well for me in life because sometimes massive activity ,even if not perfect planned, is better than spending too much time thinking about it. I can mess it up and fix it twice before some people start kind of thing When it becomes a real business though you have to run all the numbers What part of the country are you in? Near a city of rural? High cost of living?
I told the customer that I wasn’t sure if that Seed would come up in this heat because they aren’t going to water it. He said he wanted to put it down anyway so it’s not my problem if it doesn’t come in
I think your on target with your costs but 15%of total for overhead and 15% profit should be added for a little wiggle room and making sure you have a compliant contract for your area Spell out in detail what your procedure is. If you find any hidden problems state a price that it would cost and make a change order in writing signed by customer thru email or text before you move forward have fun!!!!!
It doesn't seem like you've factored in a profit, just the cost of everything. The $125 an hour for the skid steer is just the equipment fee, what about the operator fee? Plus the equipment fee for the truck and the trailer? Having the equipment fee will cover the prep times and any incidentals that occur. And I agree with one of the other comments, when giving the bid, have it itemized, but don't include the itemized price, just give the price for the overall job.
They are not intending to water this and I told them that I did not think the Grass was likely to do well in this heat but they just want me to put it down anyway
I rarely actually charge by the hour. I normally give a bid for the whole job but I come up with that bid based on an hourly rate and an estimate of the number of hours it will take. I have been increasing my rates consistently over time as I gain more experience but most people still think I’m too cheap Thanks for watching
I think you’re way under bidding. You need to be making a profit on every line item. Seed costs you $250, charge $300. And I would bid more than 6 hours, or charge more per hour. I charge $125 per hour and it’s just my truck and tools. You add up your truck, trailer, skid steer, seeder, etc and you should be at least $150-175 per hour.
You are not adding anything for time and expense for gathering the needed supplies. I certainly would not want to buy and upkeep the equipment for less then $175 an hour plus you hourly rate for operating the equipment. You also need to add 10 to 15% contingency. Don't under estimate your value. Good Luck! Enjoy your videos.
Do you not charge labor to run the skid steer? Are you only charging labor for the physical part? 🤔 if your Charging $50 an hour then you need to figure up your total hours manual labor and running equipment and loading and driving etc. According to your spread sheet your not paying yourself hardly anything for all that work.....cheap labor isn't good, good labor isn't cheap
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I think you’re a little light on that price big guy. I do this same work and love jobs like this but they can bite you. First cut the grass and. weeds down low so you can see potential problems better. Add that time somewhere and in your bid. Then you need to do an 811 call and get it located and marked. Trust me. Then bucket work to get stuff like that concrete out and push those piles over. Then power rake the snot out of whole place. Lots of passes. Get it graded out like you want it and get that dirt nice and fluffy. That might take day. Bucket & Rake. After you seed and before you straw you need to drag harrow the seed/fert. A piece of old chain link fence or something that will pull a little dirt over the seed. There’s more time. Then straw. Keep in mind that straw often introduces weed seed from the field where it was cut. If your slope isn’t bad and so runoff/erosion is minimal you might not need straw. For me I think I’d budget about 16-18 hours. Mowing 2 hrs. Machine work 8-10. Seeeding & Finishing 5-6 hrs. Don’t forget you have that loading and unloading time as well. I’m closer to $2k plus materials on this in north Texas.
Thanks for the feedback
The only thing I would add to the bid would be prep time/ the time it takes to load up all the equipment and travel time to and from the job. With the cost of Biden fuel these days you have to figure that into your expenses. Great video Brock, keep them coming.
Seconded. Also don't forget your time and mileage going to look at the property, going to the dump, and lowes. You may have another $30 just in fuel cost alone with all that running.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it
Brock you may be interested in watching a couple of videos from Brian's landscaping on UA-cam. He goes into some detail about the hidden cost of doing business and so did Tim from Tractor time with Tim.
Thanks for sharing
I would add a dump truck of top soil delivered so you can back fill holes and slopes and have fresh dirt to work with. Working with existing will only get you so far
Good advice
Lots of great comments and feedback. I would definitely recommend telling the customer that unless we get some rain the grass seed won’t do much good. Fall would be the best time to seen, but I understand they want the property leveled and mow able.
Nice channel name.
I would agree on not seeding right now. I put it in there because he was specific in requesting it graded with seed and straw.
Probably better to have that conversation though
II think a transport fee as a deposit that is not refundable makes sense. Where you break down fees, don’t list the prices, just everything involved. For example material haul off, in the details, explain what is covered in more detail, but no pricing: collect and remove debris from site and dispose of at approved locations for each material type. For equipment work like leveling/grading, again in the details, no prices, just details explaining the work. I would add another equipment category to remove debris from site and load on trailer. Getting that crap off the property and on your trailer is in addition to the time it will take to drive to the dump and back. It will take a fair amount of time to get that crap out of there and on your trailer. Then the one to do the actual grading to prepare for seeding. Finally, the big one that many will argue about is hourly pricing: I say don’t do it. If you estimate in your head a 6 hour time for something, fine, but in the quote, just list the total cost, without the hours. So for loader work, just have a price, no units or hours. The customer may ask how long will it take, and you can give the total time of the complete job, but you aren’t married to that time if you bid the job, not the hours. Plus, if you take longer, they aren’t going to pay more, but if you finish faster, they will often want to pay less. Don’t bid by the hour…😀
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. I made some adjustments and increase the total cost by a couple hundred dollars.
They accepted and I will be recording myself doing this job next week so we will see how I fare on it
I like the honesty you bring to your videos but remember to add profit into your calculation. At the end of the day/week/month/year... you got to keep your lights on and food in the fridge. I realize your income is not totally reliant on these jobs but if you are trying to pass along a guideline of how to bid jobs you should do more than just cover the costs associated with each job. Set a percentage of income you intend to make after all costs have been paid and factor that into each bid. If you don't get the job because you were under bid then so be it, that only means that the jobs you are getting are making you profit. That's my 2 cents worth
I ended up going up a couple hundred dollars on the bed and the customer has excepted it. I feel like I’m getting better at making sure the jobs are profitable.
The problem I think I still have is everything looks like it’ll be quick and easy and then it actually isn’t.
If I think I can do it in one day it seems really profitable but then when it takes three days to do the job it’s not profitable at all
I ended up going up a couple hundred dollars on the bed and the customer has excepted it. I feel like I’m getting better at making sure the jobs are profitable.
The problem I think I still have is everything looks like it’ll be quick and easy and then it actually isn’t.
If I think I can do it in one day it seems really profitable but then when it takes three days to do the job it’s not profitable at all
Good info, hope you win the bid! Probably would include setup/loading/unloading time into a calculation somewhere. You could always refer them to one of your job prep video's to see how much is involved to justify the increase in price!
Thanks for watching
It cost me $828 for a skid steer with Harley rake for 8 hours use. That’s for them to deliver and pick back up plus 12 gallons of fuel to fill back up. So that’s right at $900 just for one day of grading work just for equipment. No profit what’s so ever. 1 load of topsoil costs me around $650 per load in my area. Your going to need starter fertilizer for the grass seed to get started. But I’d do it at time of planting plus do it again in 30 days and have that be part of the price. The hauling fees, fertilizer, seed, topsoil, two days of work minimum possum three days. Going to need bucket, and grapple for clearing. Plus need all utilities marked and ask about septic tank if any. Don’t want to have that heavy skid steer on that and fall in. Also smaller yards are hard to maneuver skid steers in may need to rent a stand on skid steer. My bid $5500 minimum and plan on3 days things do come up to regrade whole yard add top solid seed and fertilizer plus the grading and hauling off. Also may have to have a silt fence installed can’t have any dirt on roads EPA will have a fit if you get caught but it looks flat to me so may not be much of an issue. What about irrigation? Any underground sprinklers to worry about? Get utilities marked! Don’t trust homeowners they lie or just don’t really know.
Your rationale makes sense, but no way in hell anyone gonna spend $5500 for that job, especially in Brock’s part of The country,
There are different quality levels you can do on any job depending on what the customer is looking for
You could bid it to just haul off the material but leave it uneven. You could do the bid like I gave with leveling The dirt that is already there and putting down seed. You could bring in topsoil and then seed it. You could strip off what is there and put down sod.
All of those have much different prices
You could also offer to make sure it drains and to put in irrigation.
This is not that kind of neighborhood though and I talked to the guy on the phone About what he wants. I will be surprised if he is willing to pay what I bid it at, So I’m really not expecting to get the job.
In a nicer newer subdivision someone might spend that 5500 or more, but there’s not a manicured yard on this block. There is a house across the street that has been condemned and is waiting to be knocked down
Nice video. I enjoy the fact that you are so detailed in laying out your thought process. Personally, I have no intention of doing work for someone else, but when you own equipment that possibility always exists. And knowledge is knowledge! Looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you. Good luck!
Thanks.
Nice breakdown Brock. I think it’s a fair bid for your approach. I’d be tempted to till that yard and cultipack it. I’m really curious to see how it goes so I’m really hoping you get the job. I’ve only done one big seed job like this because I’m very wary of customers that won’t water and keep up with it to get a good germination and maturation. Usually I’ve done the prep and the customers have seeded themselves. The big job I did seed was about 1.5 acres and full of obstacles, and when I drive by I can see the customer didn’t follow through with water or anything. My only word of advice there is to be very clear with them that the outcome of the grass is heavily dependent on the water and care provided after you finish.
Good points. It could be done with the tractor and tiller
I did mention to the customer that I didn’t expect the grass to do well in this heat. I think their primary focus is on the leveling and haul off But they want me to put the seed down anyway
Hey Brock, Nice job-walk and bid break down!
Don't sell yourself short Brock. This type of work is commonly done by a landscaper contractor. And I doubt none of your local landscapers would bid this job for $1,600.
I think you should add at least 25% to your bid. You may be one of the new players in the game for your area. But that does not mean you should under sell yourself! You always do your best, put your customers first and go Above and Beyond!!!
I wish you much success in all your endeavers to support yourself, family and friends!!!
thx, tommy
Thanks for the encouragement
Good subject
Mark some profit into your supplies! You have to spend time and fuel getting the seed. Good video regardless
Thanks
The leveling and loading of the trailer is going to take a lot more time. Also that area with the weeds might be an old septic tank. Or even worse that whole area might be the neighbor’s septic. It rare but could be a possibility. Also take into consideration the cost of maintenance and wear and tear on your machines
Thanks for sharing
What ever you end up charging You should add in a bid to maintain the property afterwards
Make money on both ends :)
Thanks for the suggestion
I recommend boots, long pants, and a probing stick to check on things hidden in long grass! Pretty risky in most parts on the country without these precautions.
No kidding, waiting for rattle snake to jump out and nail your leg!
Thanks for watching
I definitely wouldn't waste the time weedeating that pile first. Drive in and scoop it out. Just watch the fence and if your material starts to get close, back drag it out.
When doing bids like this, whether it's machine work or interior renovations, I like to include "up to" wherever possible. This ensures you don't lose out on any money in the end. Say it only takes you an hour and a half to spread seed and straw, a picky customer might demand taking that $25 off. If you put in the quote that the $100 includes up to two hours, you are guaranteed that money even if it only takes ten minutes. Think of it like bidding one flat rate for the job, but also leaving it open to go up if it takes longer so you're not losing money they way either.
I perform the work as described in the bid and if it starts to look like that won't be enough I will discuss with the customer whether they want me to continue or make it the best I can with the time allotted.
Thanks for the tip
IF every thing is as it appears (Thats a big IF ) you will do ok...but, you didn't go thru all this trouble and expense of financing all your equipment and work and worry , to just do ok...( Your price for your labor is a minimum of $25 per hour low ) I haven't seen any disclaimer for " Unseen or hidden hinderences " that are not covered under this quote that would be at an added cost that would be dicussed and agreed upon prior to completion . You need to add some verbiage Brock to cover the unexpected for YOUR protection , remember your priorities #1.) Be safe #2.) be profitable #3 )don't neglect your family over your new found career ( it can happen )
Good video...We are excited to see where this goes!
( You do have your LLC buisness liability insurance covered in overhead costs and is stand alone separately from your personal finances or your other business's )
pc
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it
Good morning! A couple things you need to account for which you have talked about loading time and unloading time. Normally if your using equipment there is a flat fee for each piece. If you are using the skid on a job $250 just for bringing it to the job. Then if you need the tractor too another $150. Then I would figure in gas and maintenance. What does it cost per hour to run said equipment. A gallon of diesel per hour 6 hours on the job. Plus oil changes and stuff would be like $15-$20 extra per hour. If using equipment.
Thanks for watching
I use a three step method. Guess after you hear the info. Then walk through the jobs and make another educated guess, then I itemize each thing and add travel and fuel. If all three aren't close to each other I have made a mistake somewhere. Once I identify the error I they should all match pretty closely.
Thanks for sharing
Don't forget any of your taxes for materials and \or any type permits you may need!
Thanks for watching
Remember that you have to get the extra supplies like the grass seed, and straw. I hope that you include that. Plus not to mention the cost of fuel on the truck.
Yeah you are right about that added cost. Maybe add 10-15% above listed price.
@@tommywwalden1599 Exactly I agree with you on that one. Your time is worth something.
The contractor mix grass seed, in my experience, is predominantly clover. Mostly used to inhibit erosion during land disturbing operations. What is the software you are using for the quote/invoice?
I am using Jobber. Just started with it but it seems pretty handy. It allows you to send quotes and invoices by text or email and the customer can pay the invoice with a credit card
2000.00 makes sense in my head for doing the work but it would be sticker shock for the person that has to pay for it.
You could run into shallow phone and fiber cables if you cut into the yard. Some places around me, the techs just slot the ground with a 6 inch edger and push it under the dirt.
You’re supposed yo call 811 before you dig, free service marks everything out. Just takes few weeks for them to actually show up. Most legit companies won’t do anything with out things marked. Liability
Thanks for watching
Yeah, I’m definitely having the utilities marked
I would be two eight-hour days at $1500 for a total of #3000. This includes materials, labor, haul-off and equipment time, and moving.
Thank you for sharing that info. I increased it by a couple hundred dollars and the customer excepted the bid so I will be doing this job in an upcoming
I think my biggest problem with bidding jobs is underestimating how long it takes to do the work
You need to add your profit margin to the entire job to. 10-30% is a good start depending on your overhead.
A load or two of dirt will help with the grading
I agree. I actually increased my bid a little bit and the customer accepted it but I really think I should’ve tried to include bringing in some dirt.
I’m concerned that just grading out the existing dirt is going to leave this yard setting lower
maybe something I can approach the customer about When I see how it’s coming out
Did that corner have an old garage or building located on it? Are there any old utilities on the property that you have to be concerned about? Was there a building on the lot at one time and you will have to deal with buried building foundations/material? I'm just curious what was on the property or if it had always been vacant. I would be concerned that there use to be buildings there and that you are going to find a lot of hidden items.
I believe there was. I will of course going to have the utilities marked but I won’t be surprised if I find more than I bargained for.
Thanks for watching
You're going to need more than 3 little square bakes of hay.
I put down 3 bales per bag of seed so guessing 9 but I don’t actually know
Thanks for watching
Stanley "Dirt Monkey" Genadek just put out a video yesterday that might help you do some pricing. It looks like it is hard to figure everything out hope this will help, thank you.
Thanks for sharing
ty for the good video. Maybe I overlooked it but what pieces of equipment exactly will you bring to the site and what is the cost to mobilize and demob them. 2. Personally I feel a Harley Rake and a Grader attachment are fairly costly items. Would it be wise to cost them out differently then say just running the skid loader with a bucket?
You are probably right on that
Thanks for watching
Seems fair in your rationale pricing..
Thanks
What software are you using for bidding. I am looking for software for job bids. Thanks for the great videos, keep them coming
Jobber
Thanks for watching
It looks like a foundation so I would talk them into filling or capping over with topsoil. Instal a gravel calculator on your phone and you can plug in what it will cost . I think u should use your laser lever and see what it is . How perfect do they want it ? . I'd say $2200 . Their is always hidden costs.this is just my thoughts. 🤪todd
Not far off at all.I would charge 2200-2400.All inclusive.20% markup on all handled materials.I always refer to aggregate calculator on my phone when quoting,can't beat it.
How do you start doing jobs with skid steer. Like removing dirt and grading?
I’ve only had this machine a few months and I’m just getting started.
Right now I’m taking whatever kind of jobs I can get. Since I’m not that experienced I may not do it the most efficient way but I get the job done
On this job I will try to scrape off the high spots and dump them in the low spots and the track over it 100 times. Then I will run the Harley rake to smooth everything out
You may need top soil
That would be better, but I don’t know that the customer wants to pay for that.
I think of it as there are levels of service.
The premium service would be to skim off the top layer and bring in topsoil and put down sod but we’re definitely not in that kind of neighborhood
As I’m sitting here thinking about it, It really would be better to bring in topsoil so that this area doesn’t sit lower than the surrounding yards
I'm curious to know if you charge larbor and travel fees to the job and/or equipment hauling to the job.
To me that depends on the size of the job.
You can itemize it in all different ways
When I finish the job I will know if I bid enough and I will adjust for the next one
Thanks for watching
I don't see the time your figuring and charging for loading out the waste material (with the TL), $75 for labor and fuel combined is likely just the travel time from the site to dump and back, what about the $125/hr time on the TL loading out, x2 loads. and the $75 for the truck and dump trailer time seems light as well, one flat tire and you have wiped that out. I also would not figure your price based on the lower dumping fee, you know there is going to be trash under all that somewhere, you are assuming all the risk here, just quote based on the higher number so you don't get burned on it if the dump charges the higher rate (you don't want to argue with them, you'll need that location and service for your future work) $55 / ton x 5 tons = $275 dump fee which would wipe out your fuel and labor and cost you another $25......, if you get the lower rate, then that covers some other "overrun". And as others have said, where is the time for preparing, loading equipment, actually getting the supplies.
I would think $2,500 would be a better number for you, and I am likely still to cheap. You have 10 hrs figured in, without prep time (~2 hrs) or debris loading time (~2 hrs) = 14 hrs, so say 2 full days of labor ($1,000 / day) + costs ($275+$275+345= $895) = $2,895....... So forget my previous # and quote it at $2,950 (to avoid saying $3k)
You'll likely have ~$900 out of pocket expenses + fuel in the truck and TL, so your current quote may only leave you with ~$800 for 2 days work..... or ~$400 a day (~$50 / hr for 16 hrs of work, much of it with a $$$$$ TL & $10k Harley rake). Remember, you'll be bringing ~$150K worth of assets to this job (truck, dump trailer, TL, bucket, Harley rake, etc....), your not hauling a $20k tractor with a box blade on a landscape trailer behind a beat-up 1/2 ton pickup. And if you get EVERY job you bid, you are under pricing for sure (I am guilty of this big time as well, I need to take some of this advice as well).
Hopefully this helps, look forward to the video for it! Have a good one Brock!!
I raised the price a little bit before submitting it and they excepted so you will see me doing this job next week
I appreciate the feedback
@@RockhillfarmYT Glad you got the job, look forward to the video. I seem to continually under price my work, mostly based on time it takes (sometimes if I think about how long it will actually take, the less interested I am in getting started...). So it was sort of written for both of us, it is easy to overlook some things and marginalize the "little" parts of the job that don't get noticed (loading, etc.), but they add up to more time that we think. Keep plugging away at it and you will get a better feel for how long everything takes (yep, that is for me too!).
You don’t mind, what type of work do you mainly do, what kind of equipment do you run, and how long have you been at it?
@@RockhillfarmYT My primary work is engineering, residential & small commercial architectural, structural and civil engineering. Mostly split between septic design and structural beam design (with posts and footings). But I also do stormwater management design and site plans for small commercial (though I am trying to stay away from those as they take so much unknown time due to all the different agency reviews....). I went out on my own with that back in 2017 and have been "learning" the business side of it ever since (still a ways to go there). That said, I have done a countless number of building projects for people outside of the day job for an Architect ('99 till a little after the bubble burst) , then an Engineer ('11 till end of '17, 6 month overlap of 2 full-time jobs). While those paid okay for "side hustle" work, I never managed to price them to cover "all of the time spent" on them. This is still an issue to some extent, but I am working on it, slowly it seems....
Now I am altering the "side hustle" (can it really be called that since I am the only one in my business already, so the "additional hat I am wearing") to include the "new-to-me" tractor I picked up (Kioti DK50SE cab) and actually-new mini-ex (CAT 302CR), plus a B-Wise 10k lb, 7x12 dump trailer and EBY 10k aluminum 7x20 equipment trailer (new-to-me). I have not gone "commercial" with those at this point, as I am really too busy with the engineering work, but want to "get out" more to break things up. I have been helping the neighbors with the equipment, when I am not tearing things up here, and the set-up time and put-away time is far longer than I ever figure it will be, not even worrying about the actual "work" time. So you are really further along on this journey than I am, but I have been trying to figure out what costs would be involved for things I have done, time spent and the "hidden costs" of the business portion of doing that work. And doing that before and after I have helped the neighbors, and comparing them, my before is still not matching up with the after...... yet???? Still working on getting there.
I think what you said about Dirt Perfect saying you should be looking at $1,000 a day as a really good starting point (labor only, & fuel in the equipment?), travel fuel, materials (getting them as well), outside fees (dump fees, delivery charges) should all be additional. Then look at the time you think it will take, including setup and put-away (at least those might cover any extra time something took you weren't counting on). Then look at that time in "days", sure you might be able to get the work done in 6 hours or so, but if you can't start first thing in the morning or it takes a little longer, that one day project is now two days (now your unloading and loading on the jobsite at least twice, = more time spent), if something takes 10 hrs, that's surely going to be more than one day, so can you get anything else done the second day with the time left (half a day or more). If a job takes 3/4's of a day, can you really get to another job for the other 1/4 of the day, this comes back to not charging any work by the hour (you only short change yourself doing that), round up by the day (or 1/2 day on less than 2 day projects, little less than 1.5 day project = 1.5 project, little more than 1.5 day = 2 day project, little less than 2.5 day = 3 day project, and so on adding full days).
I'd be interested to hear yours or anyone else's thoughts on this, assuming this is not a "side-hustle" to make some cash, but a real business to make a living. And that may be the biggest jump that needs to be considered (for me too), doing work with this "level" of equipment needs to be more about making a living doing it, not some extra cash. The initial, maintenance, repair, replacement and insurance costs are all big numbers here, so those things require a real cost from a customer for you to risk on their project (that may be poor said but hopefully you get what I am trying to say).
That may have been more than you were asking for, but there it is. Keep doing what your doing, I'd certainly like to see your do really well with it!!
Sounds like you have a nice equipment set up to get started with. I love my skid loader but sometimes I still question if a mini ex would’ve been the better machine to start with.
Right now everything I’m doing is a trial but I’m hoping that in 5 years we are a full scale excavating business and my sons working with me
My biggest problem is “just winging it”. In general that way of doing things has worked out well for me in life because sometimes massive activity ,even if not perfect planned, is better than spending too much time thinking about it. I can mess it up and fix it twice before some people start kind of thing
When it becomes a real business though you have to run all the numbers
What part of the country are you in? Near a city of rural? High cost of living?
🏆🏆🏆👍🇺🇲🙏
Thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching
You need fertilizer and a contingency
I told the customer that I wasn’t sure if that Seed would come up in this heat because they aren’t going to water it.
He said he wanted to put it down anyway so it’s not my problem if it doesn’t come in
I think your on target with your costs but 15%of total for overhead and 15% profit should be added for a little wiggle room and making sure you have a compliant contract for your area Spell out in detail what your procedure is. If you find any hidden problems state a price that it would cost and make a change order in writing signed by customer thru email or text before you move forward have fun!!!!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it
It doesn't seem like you've factored in a profit, just the cost of everything. The $125 an hour for the skid steer is just the equipment fee, what about the operator fee? Plus the equipment fee for the truck and the trailer? Having the equipment fee will cover the prep times and any incidentals that occur.
And I agree with one of the other comments, when giving the bid, have it itemized, but don't include the itemized price, just give the price for the overall job.
Thanks for sharing
Don’t forget starter fertilizer.
They are not intending to water this and I told them that I did not think the Grass was likely to do well in this heat but they just want me to put it down anyway
Dont charge by the hour, Do by the job u losing alot of money, Here in Ga I charge $650 Min covers 4hrs after thats its $1,000-1,500.
I rarely actually charge by the hour. I normally give a bid for the whole job but I come up with that bid based on an hourly rate and an estimate of the number of hours it will take.
I have been increasing my rates consistently over time as I gain more experience but most people still think I’m too cheap
Thanks for watching
What software are you using?
Jobber
I think you’re way under bidding. You need to be making a profit on every line item. Seed costs you $250, charge $300. And I would bid more than 6 hours, or charge more per hour. I charge $125 per hour and it’s just my truck and tools. You add up your truck, trailer, skid steer, seeder, etc and you should be at least $150-175 per hour.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it
You are not adding anything for time and expense for gathering the needed supplies. I certainly would not want to buy and upkeep the equipment for less then $175 an hour plus you hourly rate for operating the equipment. You also need to add 10 to 15% contingency. Don't under estimate your value. Good Luck! Enjoy your videos.
Thanks
Do you not charge labor to run the skid steer? Are you only charging labor for the physical part? 🤔 if your Charging $50 an hour then you need to figure up your total hours manual labor and running equipment and loading and driving etc. According to your spread sheet your not paying yourself hardly anything for all that work.....cheap labor isn't good, good labor isn't cheap
Thanks for sharing
My quote would be $2800
Thanks for sharing the info
1800-2000
Bro, how old are you? You got a grand son?
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