bought a small symmetric chinese wireless mice using the size of my hands as you taught us, and its incredible that today you dont need expensive mices to have nice aim. thanks for the videos bro
@@RocketJumpNinja really good! i never felt my AWP that consistent in all my life, i dont know if its the really nice shape and weight or the motion sync that i never used before, what amaze me is that it have all the features that you expect from an expensive mice, the sensor is the PAW3395, 0ms debounce delay, the switches are the huano's pink blue, really light 55grams and the shape is a smaller logitech superlight, it gave me that sensation that i dont even need to get use to the mice, just plugged and clicked some heads. the name is kysona aztec btw.
I find a larger back hump helps me a lot with stability in tactical shooters like CS (xtrfy m42, xm2, g305, za13 etc.), especially for claw/relaxed claw grip
unironically the op1 8k feels like a more conventional version of the mz1 in that it's about as skinny as you can ask a mouse to be before larger hands start having cramping. so thats kind of my reccomendation
I was really liking the op1 but it felt a bit too slim for me like I was focusing on keeping the mouse stable rather than just aiming intuitively. Just got the pulsar X2h mini and it just feels perfect.
I'll go further and say that certain mechanics in CS require some added weight because of how important weapon accuracy is and shooting straight, so picking a mouse with the lowest weight is not always great for consistency
Depends on pad though, right? On a heavy control pad, you don't want any weight in the mouse. On a glass pad, you want extra weight in the mouse. With the above in mind, which mechanics would actually benefit from extra weight?
@@RocketJumpNinja I see your point. In regards to the pad, I believe a lighter mouse combined with increased pad friction can approximate the resistance of a heavier mouse, but the underlying feel and control dynamics remain distinct. So weight matters more in the end, at least for me. When you flick someone or quickly move your crosshair to an enemy, you don't always go for the head in CS, but when you do I see it as weight not mattering at all. It's when you go for body shots and kills aren't instant because you want your bullets to land. If you twitch or shake during pressure once you lock-on to the target you can miss an important bullet from hitting and that can lose you the duel. The weight adds "stability" in those moments.
Interesting, I would've thought the lighter weight was better on the recoil because it's easier to be more precise on small movements, but you're saying the weight actually stabilizes those smaller movements? What's your cm/360, do you know? And mouse + pad, I'll try to replicate it to see what it feels like. I was talking with someone and they were saying that bigger mice might offer more stability on flicks (and less accuracy on finer adjustments), there's some truth to that in theory but in practice it doesn't seem to work, lighter and smaller still seems better, especially something like the FK2 because you've got that extra stability from the length without compromising the thin width (as said in the video).
@@RocketJumpNinja Yes, exactly. I think the added weight helps because precise movements are already difficult to control. So in a way it's less about "perfect precision" and more about minimizing error or stabilizing aim so bullets are more likely to land. And the moment this happens you're under lots of pressure just to add. Right now I'm currently using 0.52 with 1600 DPI on a Maya X and a ESPTiger QingSui Ya Sheng, which feels very much like a Steelseries QcK heavy if you want a similar surface for testing. Honestly my current setup is not for competitive play, and I would have preferred the mouse to have a bit more weight if it was. The size is also interesting that you bring up because entry kills on sites or taking space is easier on a small mouse because of better range of motion so flicking in a way is easier I think. So I agree that smaller in some regards is better for aim and added weight is the chefs kiss.
Yeah the Maya is really light. So for competitive play, what were you using? As in, when was the last time you felt you could aim your best? And yeah the range of motion is definitely a factor... I find even in Quake, I just can't do certain small adjustment rails (sniper shots), which is another reason I prefer a lighter mouse... less force needed = more precise in those moments. And also easier to throw around for rocket jumps. So the extremes are good for light mice, but maybe there's an argument to be made for the in between... like just tracking someone, which would also be controlling recoil I guess, because with a lower sensitivity like yours, you would need to move the mouse a fair bit to counter the recoil, right? I'll definitely be looking into this more. Maybe I should learn the AK recoil or something and just do that in training, then see which mouse combo I can do it best with.
I like ergos best for CS because of the wide, stable base. GPX is also a solid choice because it’s quite stable. The sort of smaller, ultra light mice they use for fast paced tracking games like apex/fortnite make me aim better in a vacuum (so kovaaks basically) but inside the server in CS, I’m way more confident and comfortable holding an angle or peeking into people with a DAV3 or EC
Nice expression "vacuum" - really like how that explains it well. And yeah under pressure you want something that weights a bit more to shoot straight, respect weapon accuracy and be more consistent
i really respect your videos , i am 39 yo and i play competitive fps games all my life and cs is my fav , i have changer a lot of mice from different brands and some you mention in your lists but zowie ec2 design is the perfect one for my hand when i change to this my aim is on another level. Keep the good job with your quality videos mate.
I owned a M9 for almost 15 years bc I loved the shape. Before that (pre 2004) I had terrible to okay mice from MS, Genius, Logitech, A4, etc. Since the M9 started to show its age (hard cord, weakened switches, material degradation) I discovered the Viper Ultimate through your channel, and I'm a mostly happy owner ever since. Thanks for the info and recommendations, I always refer your channel when someone wants to buy a mouse.
I disagree with the ratio argument and would say its more about comfort in the hand. I set Aimlabs records with MM720 which is almost a square design. Smaller and lighter is better while remaining comfortable which is why I currently main the Sora V2.
also I've noticed that companies usually prioritize on placing the sensor dead center in the middle. But I've noticed, something like the MM711, It has its sensor a bit to the front which helps you micro manage your aim a lot better.
@@BOZ_11 yeah true, just curious, you know of any other mouse that have their sensor placed up like that? I loved the shape of the MM711 but the QC was terrible/ dogwater. I would go through 2-3 copies a year.
I'm 49, started playing competitive M&K online in 1996 and played Quake 3 in the World Cyber Games in 2001, 2002 and 2003 (S Tier) and aim best with the Cooler Master MM720.
The Harpe Ace Extreme is better and basically the same shape but improved (better sides imo), I even said "which is basically a G Pro X", so... kinda did? Just because something is popular doesn't make it best. The video was mainly about the ratio thing anyway. I'm thinking the actual best mice for those games have a 2.x:1 ratio. I could get a lot of views and make more money by doing standard lists that everyone agrees with, I know, but just like my mouse design, instead of taking the safe route, I'd rather challenge everyone to get better. There will be growing pains as people complain about being pushed out of their comfort zone, but in the long run, it will be worth it. Even if I'm wrong, at least we'll have a better understanding of what we actually want.
Lot of these guys are hard forced or soft forced to use superlight because of logitech sponsorships. There are horror stories throughout the history of cs of players being forced to use a mouse they didn't really like, it's not that bad anymore but the pressure from sponsors still exists. It's not a coincidence when you see the 5 players from one roster using one brand, I.E. Mouz using razer keyboards only, g2 using logitech mice only etc
I was using the Darmoshark M5 and M3 micro and am now back to my Keychron M4. I made a test print for the Keychron M4 shape with the length and height of the Darmoshark M5. Which I quite like. Still not entirely sure on how long it should be. After watching this video I changed the model to be 2:1 using ~49.5/50mm as the grip width. Which i'm really enjoying the shape of. Tho I still like the general feeling of the "Darmoshark M5" version. I guess I gotta test narrowing the it now :p I also sanded down the length of the FK2 because I found it too long. And didn't like the way it's flat back dug under the palm of my hand. : )
I use the Xtfry MZ1 Wireless and it's literally perfect for me. I have smaller than average hands and it fits just right. Works for all games from Quake to Halo, to Battlefield, to CS2. I'm so happy I finally found a mouse that I'm comfortable with after buying 5+ mice and wasting lots of money.
I think I've tried roughly over 40 mice for CSGO/CS2 and was trying hard to move on from my GPX1 but I just could never aim so effortlessly with any other mouse. Even now comparing to the Maya X /VV3Pro/Dav3 Pro where all feel way more comfortable in my hand I just can't aim , track and flick so consistently. GPX is my GOAT for CS hands down. Good Luck!
I think it’s insane how big of an impact a mouse has on your performance. Like I tried out a mouse with similar dimensions to mine except with wider sides and a larger hump and it physically hurt my hand after 20 minutes to try to play with the same grip I always play with.
As a seasoned CS veteran, I will say that currently I am with Keychron M4 35 grams (really small mouse) wireless and after some time I noticed that indeed, a smaller mouse makes your aim worse. Overflicks, bad spray control and other issues were noted. The benefit is the freedom within the smallest movements, which are not often required in CS. I made a mistake, but I need to continue using it in order to draw a clear conclusion. The best mouse I ever aimed was the Razer Viper Mini (which is now the Razeer Viper Cobra). The moment I picked this mouse it just clicked. Everything, from size, to weight. Since then I became obsessed with mice particularly smaller and lighter mice and I have to admit I did not become better. My prime was with the Viper Mini. I will probably return to the Cobra (since it's just an updated version of the Viper Mini) after i draw a clear conclusion about the Keychron M4, but yeah I totally agree with Zy on this one.
In my experience, I aim better when the sensor is closer to my palm than my fingers. The closer the sensor is to the front of the mouse the more shaky my aim is and I have a harder time flicking accurately.
What would you recommend for someone like me with smaller hands that is using fingertip without touching the palm ever, only time I touch it is when I know my cs spray is perfectly down. I also need to use the scrollwheel a lot. It is really hard to find a balance where I can scroll freely without needing to adjust to much.
liking it a lot so far just got it today, so far so good bit like a viper mini but nicer, precise not as comfortable (but more comfortable than viper mini) as what im used to g403, thorn, np01, burst pro just feel i needed to lower my sens further compared to those
@honorabilis1 I really like the hump with super light 2 for stability but I've always played better with smaller mice I might try the op18k as I've liked the viper mini and the g203 and having a wire is honestly stress free with a bungee no charging required!
@@Launders- same do like the back hump especially on the burst pro, if that had nicer feel clicks id just use that and if a bit lighter, same for g403. still on the fence with this one i give it a month
Been using a wired FK2 for pretty much the past 7 years. have a bunch of other mice like the superlight etc. I just ordered a Purple frost OP1 8K and it may be the first mouse to make me switch when it arrives. At the same time I may still take my ancient FK2 over it if the hype was over blown.
You can go with S2 or U2. I've used FK1+ for years then I figured out I should be using a smaller mouse. Went for viper mini, g305 and S2. Let me tell you this, Zowie can only be replaced by Zowie. S2 has a bump towards the back of the mouse, but once you figure out the grip, it just might be the best mouse to use. I still use my other mice including FK1+ but S2 gives almost 20% better result. From what I know of U2, it's shape is somewhere between FK and S2, for people who like symmetrical mice, that might be the best mix. Of course, since the time it came out the EC series have been considered to be one of the best, I haven't tried it, but it could be the one. P.S. Razer Viper feels closer to the shape of FK, but something is missing, can't pinpoint it exactly so S2 fit better.
I've used Zowie S1-C then later Vaxee XE and I really like the lower buttons and more sloped buttons on it. I do play mostly Quake or Apex as far as movement wise too.
I find thin grip width best for clicking and flicking, my best mice were the mz1, op1. But I think high hump works better for tracking. My tracking with a za13 is noticeably better than any other mouse I use
I need your help.. I have 19x9.5 hands and use relax claw or fingertip grip (hybrid I think). I Have VV3 Pro and GPX 2. I rly love both of these mice and cant pick one of them.. I play valorant and spectre divide, sometimes “The fianls”. Somedays i feel better with GPX 2, somedays with VV3 Pro. Cant chooooose( Also heard that logitech updated their sensor and now it’s the same level like vv3 pro - im not sure
21x11. Buy any mouse for baby hands and just add griptapes. Thats how Ive done it. Weight doenst matter, but the shape does. Comfort will always be top priority.
I've been using an FK2 since starting Overwatch in 2016 (I think) and haven't found a better shape yet, though I have to say that I'm noticeably worse aiming up/down with it than left/right.
It's such a shame they don't make ZA11 or SS 710 like mice (or even wider ones), these shapes are so good for me, it's unreal. No Logitech G Pro "soap" like shapes
how you been able to fully review the Zowie U2 yet? zowie claims "multi angle agility" and supposed "less muscle tension" as well as faster index finger click speed. curious as to your thoughts on the shape.
I keep trying mice... But Deathadder is always the most comfortable, but I find Naga more useful. I tried many many other brands and I always go back to razer. I went through pretty much every mouse they made. Currently rocking Viper as my naga is out on warranty replacement.
Literally only 1 mouse that's close to the "right" size for me and it's even shorter than the mouse I'd consider already too short. It's also pretty cheap which is worrying because I'm tired of replacing and RMA'ing mice which is something no one else on Earth cares about.
I've used a zowie fk11 (ergo) for 5 years and last year i switched to a Glorious Model D (right handed shape) and now i can't go back to a ergo shape again... it feels like don't fit nicely in my hands.
Not sure about this one. I feel super comfortable with the Orochi v2 shape (using Zaopin Z1 PRO 4K for comp) and that shape is 11x6.2cm. I gues it depends on the grip+hand size? I grip claw on those
Because I've been testing a lot of mice lately, which meant I had to play a lot anyway and I didn't like that I wasn't performing well... I haven't been trying to get back in form by playing outside of testing or anything, just purely redoing my setups/settings/mindset, etc, which should make for some interesting videos because I was actually being held back by a few things on top of lack of practice. So I figure I'll share those things to help others... then maybe one day I'll actually try to get in my best form, but you're right about that potentially leading to burn out, so I'll be weary of that. For now, just some interesting vids about things we can all do (other than hours in aim trainers/games).
@RocketJumpNinja Those are good to hear. Regarding the more quaint ideas for videos, I'd suggest one in which you examine exercises that minimize integral wrist damage. I've been doing armwresting for a couple of years now, many of the arm wrestling exercises can be a blessing to professional gamers; as I was following CS for nearly a decade, and witnessed many pros flattening their career trajectories by needing untimely surgeries. There is a good and active armwrestling community in Australia. It might even be interesting for you to visit some. (Armwresting communities are very tight knitted and welcoming.) I can give you some names if you are interested. You can connect with them further if you wish as such (ask them in more detail regarding these subjects, or ask them if there are any Armwresting groups near you).
What kind of exercises? I've played a lot over the last 26 years and haven't had any issues, but then if you watch my gamer health aim video, I show the way I sit, aim, etc, so maybe that's why I've been fine while others who play in awkward/unnatural ways have issues? It's one thing to have exercises to delay the inevitable, another to correct the problem at the source. That said, maybe there's another reason, so I'm interested to learn more. I probably don't have time to join other communities, thanks though!
Well, you basically train the muscles in the lateral plane (flexors and extenders), the muscles in the vertical plane (abductors and extenders) and the rotating muscles -meaning the pronator and the supinator-; these help stabilize the wrist, and I hypothesize mitigate the damage from extreme flicks. But you are correct. Unhealthy postures are the main culprit, and high-risk professional competitions tend to cause such habits. Lachlan Adair is someone from the armwresting community, which I greatly admire. You can get in contact with him if the interest ever strikes you.
Ok cool. And yeah seeing these guys have their noses to the monitors, leaning forward with their elbows suspended in the air... always worries me for their future health, regardless of whether they think they're ok right now or not.
So buying an endgamegear op1 4k for a 20x10 cm hand is a good or bad idea? I currently have an xm2we and I use it very well, but if it really should be a smaller mouse then it may be worth considering it. I was also thinking on viper v3. Whats the best for me?
@@Zoalak we are talking about pros who literally play one game and use one grip. Your argument works for common folks that play a wide range of games and would like something universal. I personally tried more than a dozen different mice. The honey moon with a new mouse typically lasts a week, then I go back to Superlight, because it feels and plays better.
I use hybrid, so I'm not actually palming it, it's relaxed fingertip grip, angled, with some of my palm touching on the back right of the mouse. And I tried pure fingertip grip and yeah couldn't get control of it properly. Either I don't have enough practice in that grip or my fingers aren't bending in the right way, or something I don't know.
Not this year but maybe next! It should be pretty close to what the current Top Mice list now is on the website though, because Overwatch aim is fairly similar to Quake aim www.rocketjumpninja.com/top-mice
Could you recommend me a mouse that have really easy to access side buttons for small hands? For some reason the op1 8k's side buttons messes with my mouse grip whenever I need to press it. I used to use the Viper Ultimate and the side button placement is so easy to press and have a consistent mouse grip. But it broke
I also wonder what you think about WLmouse why it's not top mice list? I also moved from Superlight X and when i used G502 i thought it's top of the line and then got Superlight i was 100% sure there is no better mouse and now bought Beast X 8K and dud it is better in my opinion .
I have 2 WLmouse mice, just waiting on 2 more, then I'll put them all in the one review (saves repeating the same stuff over and over), so yeah, on their way! There are a lot of mice, hard to get through them all. I have about 10 mice next to me that need videos. Next is G Wolves HTR!
Since i started to use true fingertip mouses for my 100% fingertip grip i cant go back to "normal" mouses. Im Kovaak Top 100 player, but im worse in every game i use a normal mouse. For more stability i recommend going for a HSK Plus which has about 40g which is good for CS, but not so good with my Zaunkoenig mk2...
Razer Viper Ultimate for me, because: -fingertip grip and so the angle of the sides is really important.. -2L & 2T side buttons -hypeeshift (you can assign two functions to almost all buttons) -ambidextrous ..sensors etc are all greay with the top mice
Stability comes from weight, thats why cs2 pros use either logitech superlight/razer deathadder v3 or Zowie EC. First two are around 60g, Zowie around 77g.
You can definitely get stability through weight, especially on a glass pad, but then you have the issue of the force needed to move it and it's harder to be accurate when lifting it up and putting it down. I prefer to keep the stability in the shape and a cloth mouse pad, while keeping the mouse as light as possible. Although still figuring out the perfect balance on that.
I have a question I don't see discussed online. So I use a Viper Ultimate and I use both the side buttons on the left and right side (I am right handed). Specifically, the back side button on the left and the front side button on the right. I am not sure of the implications to aim or anything regarding this, but I wonder if there are other players who use their mouse like me. Additionally, I'm also curious if there are other quality mouse that has side buttons on both sides and a good shape for fingertip/claw grip as well. For reference I play Valorant.
i believe you want up and down movement and get more stability with lower sensitivity, and with that low sens you would want easier up and down movement for spray control.
@@RocketJumpNinja I play on 86cm/360. 16x8.5 cm hand with palm/claw grip. I tried many mice over 10 years and I would say FK2 shape was good but the weight way to high and modified Za13 54g was better because of the higher back . 2 mains atm are xm2 and ul2 s even though these mice are not for palm grip but I appreciate lower button height.
bought a small symmetric chinese wireless mice using the size of my hands as you taught us, and its incredible that today you dont need expensive mices to have nice aim. thanks for the videos bro
Yeah we've come a long way. How's the performance?
@@RocketJumpNinja really good! i never felt my AWP that consistent in all my life, i dont know if its the really nice shape and weight or the motion sync that i never used before, what amaze me is that it have all the features that you expect from an expensive mice, the sensor is the PAW3395, 0ms debounce delay, the switches are the huano's pink blue, really light 55grams and the shape is a smaller logitech superlight, it gave me that sensation that i dont even need to get use to the mice, just plugged and clicked some heads. the name is kysona aztec btw.
Interesting, ok I'll check it out once I get time. Thanks for the tip!
By chance is it the vxe r1 pro
@@RocketJumpNinja thank you for de videos! 🚀🚀
I find a larger back hump helps me a lot with stability in tactical shooters like CS (xtrfy m42, xm2, g305, za13 etc.), especially for claw/relaxed claw grip
If you like ambi look into the Pulsar X2H, pretty much the highest hump you can get.
See I'm the opposite, i find a high/larger back hump really bothers my middle finger's knuckle
I'm like that but with the Ninjutso Sora V2. I do love the xm2 shape wise but I have small hands
Yup especially for short mice.
If the mouse is long I prefer a more middle hump.
never stop bro your the goat of mice reviews.
unironically the op1 8k feels like a more conventional version of the mz1 in that it's about as skinny as you can ask a mouse to be before larger hands start having cramping. so thats kind of my reccomendation
I was really liking the op1 but it felt a bit too slim for me like I was focusing on keeping the mouse stable rather than just aiming intuitively. Just got the pulsar X2h mini and it just feels perfect.
I'll go further and say that certain mechanics in CS require some added weight because of how important weapon accuracy is and shooting straight, so picking a mouse with the lowest weight is not always great for consistency
Depends on pad though, right? On a heavy control pad, you don't want any weight in the mouse. On a glass pad, you want extra weight in the mouse.
With the above in mind, which mechanics would actually benefit from extra weight?
@@RocketJumpNinja I see your point. In regards to the pad, I believe a lighter mouse combined with increased pad friction can approximate the resistance of a heavier mouse, but the underlying feel and control dynamics remain distinct. So weight matters more in the end, at least for me.
When you flick someone or quickly move your crosshair to an enemy, you don't always go for the head in CS, but when you do I see it as weight not mattering at all.
It's when you go for body shots and kills aren't instant because you want your bullets to land. If you twitch or shake during pressure once you lock-on to the target you can miss an important bullet from hitting and that can lose you the duel. The weight adds "stability" in those moments.
Interesting, I would've thought the lighter weight was better on the recoil because it's easier to be more precise on small movements, but you're saying the weight actually stabilizes those smaller movements? What's your cm/360, do you know? And mouse + pad, I'll try to replicate it to see what it feels like.
I was talking with someone and they were saying that bigger mice might offer more stability on flicks (and less accuracy on finer adjustments), there's some truth to that in theory but in practice it doesn't seem to work, lighter and smaller still seems better, especially something like the FK2 because you've got that extra stability from the length without compromising the thin width (as said in the video).
@@RocketJumpNinja
Yes, exactly. I think the added weight helps because precise movements are already difficult to control. So in a way it's less about "perfect precision" and more about minimizing error or stabilizing aim so bullets are more likely to land. And the moment this happens you're under lots of pressure just to add.
Right now I'm currently using 0.52 with 1600 DPI on a Maya X and a ESPTiger QingSui Ya Sheng, which feels very much like a Steelseries QcK heavy if you want a similar surface for testing. Honestly my current setup is not for competitive play, and I would have preferred the mouse to have a bit more weight if it was.
The size is also interesting that you bring up because entry kills on sites or taking space is easier on a small mouse because of better range of motion so flicking in a way is easier I think. So I agree that smaller in some regards is better for aim and added weight is the chefs kiss.
Yeah the Maya is really light. So for competitive play, what were you using? As in, when was the last time you felt you could aim your best?
And yeah the range of motion is definitely a factor... I find even in Quake, I just can't do certain small adjustment rails (sniper shots), which is another reason I prefer a lighter mouse... less force needed = more precise in those moments. And also easier to throw around for rocket jumps. So the extremes are good for light mice, but maybe there's an argument to be made for the in between... like just tracking someone, which would also be controlling recoil I guess, because with a lower sensitivity like yours, you would need to move the mouse a fair bit to counter the recoil, right?
I'll definitely be looking into this more. Maybe I should learn the AK recoil or something and just do that in training, then see which mouse combo I can do it best with.
I like ergos best for CS because of the wide, stable base. GPX is also a solid choice because it’s quite stable. The sort of smaller, ultra light mice they use for fast paced tracking games like apex/fortnite make me aim better in a vacuum (so kovaaks basically) but inside the server in CS, I’m way more confident and comfortable holding an angle or peeking into people with a DAV3 or EC
Nice expression "vacuum" - really like how that explains it well. And yeah under pressure you want something that weights a bit more to shoot straight, respect weapon accuracy and be more consistent
@ thank you bananaman :)
i really respect your videos , i am 39 yo and i play competitive fps games all my life and cs is my fav , i have changer a lot of mice from different brands and some you mention in your lists but zowie ec2 design is the perfect one for my hand when i change to this my aim is on another level. Keep the good job with your quality videos mate.
I owned a M9 for almost 15 years bc I loved the shape. Before that (pre 2004) I had terrible to okay mice from MS, Genius, Logitech, A4, etc. Since the M9 started to show its age (hard cord, weakened switches, material degradation) I discovered the Viper Ultimate through your channel, and I'm a mostly happy owner ever since. Thanks for the info and recommendations, I always refer your channel when someone wants to buy a mouse.
Endgamegear OP1 not mentioned?
your mice guides are a breath of fresh air. so tired of hearing how I need 4K/8K polling (on a 240Hz screen) or a click latency
I disagree with the ratio argument and would say its more about comfort in the hand. I set Aimlabs records with MM720 which is almost a square design. Smaller and lighter is better while remaining comfortable which is why I currently main the Sora V2.
main it too
also I've noticed that companies usually prioritize on placing the sensor dead center in the middle. But I've noticed, something like the MM711, It has its sensor a bit to the front which helps you micro manage your aim a lot better.
@@realghostxd it's a trade off. Centre = more stable aim. Forward = unstable but better for micro movements.
@@BOZ_11 yeah true, just curious, you know of any other mouse that have their sensor placed up like that? I loved the shape of the MM711 but the QC was terrible/ dogwater. I would go through 2-3 copies a year.
@@realghostxd yeah. the MS Sidewinder X5. It's old though, ~2009
great video ! (bought the fk2 DW before this so i'm happy)
I'm 49, started playing competitive M&K online in 1996 and played Quake 3 in the World Cyber Games in 2001, 2002 and 2003 (S Tier) and aim best with the Cooler Master MM720.
Pure fingertip or does your palm touch it ? I cant find a grip on the damn thing
that mm720 shape reminds me of the hand print from total recall movie Arnold Schwarzenegger one if that hand would have a mouse made for it
The fact you didn't include the gpx superlight 1/2 in the list is abysmal. It is still the most popular esports mouse among counterstrike pros.
The Harpe Ace Extreme is better and basically the same shape but improved (better sides imo), I even said "which is basically a G Pro X", so... kinda did?
Just because something is popular doesn't make it best. The video was mainly about the ratio thing anyway. I'm thinking the actual best mice for those games have a 2.x:1 ratio.
I could get a lot of views and make more money by doing standard lists that everyone agrees with, I know, but just like my mouse design, instead of taking the safe route, I'd rather challenge everyone to get better. There will be growing pains as people complain about being pushed out of their comfort zone, but in the long run, it will be worth it. Even if I'm wrong, at least we'll have a better understanding of what we actually want.
Lot of these guys are hard forced or soft forced to use superlight because of logitech sponsorships. There are horror stories throughout the history of cs of players being forced to use a mouse they didn't really like, it's not that bad anymore but the pressure from sponsors still exists. It's not a coincidence when you see the 5 players from one roster using one brand, I.E. Mouz using razer keyboards only, g2 using logitech mice only etc
I was using the Darmoshark M5 and M3 micro and am now back to my Keychron M4.
I made a test print for the Keychron M4 shape with the length and height of the Darmoshark M5. Which I quite like.
Still not entirely sure on how long it should be. After watching this video I changed the model to be 2:1 using ~49.5/50mm as the grip width.
Which i'm really enjoying the shape of. Tho I still like the general feeling of the "Darmoshark M5" version.
I guess I gotta test narrowing the it now :p
I also sanded down the length of the FK2 because I found it too long.
And didn't like the way it's flat back dug under the palm of my hand.
: )
I use the Xtfry MZ1 Wireless and it's literally perfect for me. I have smaller than average hands and it fits just right. Works for all games from Quake to Halo, to Battlefield, to CS2. I'm so happy I finally found a mouse that I'm comfortable with after buying 5+ mice and wasting lots of money.
Oh awesome, good to hear! Not the money wasting part, but no longer having to waste money!
@RocketJumpNinja Yes it's so relieving that I don't have to keep searching for the next mouse!
I think I've tried roughly over 40 mice for CSGO/CS2 and was trying hard to move on from my GPX1 but I just could never aim so effortlessly with any other mouse. Even now comparing to the Maya X /VV3Pro/Dav3 Pro where all feel way more comfortable in my hand I just can't aim , track and flick so consistently. GPX is my GOAT for CS hands down. Good Luck!
I think it’s insane how big of an impact a mouse has on your performance. Like I tried out a mouse with similar dimensions to mine except with wider sides and a larger hump and it physically hurt my hand after 20 minutes to try to play with the same grip I always play with.
As a seasoned CS veteran, I will say that currently I am with Keychron M4 35 grams (really small mouse) wireless and after some time I noticed that indeed, a smaller mouse makes your aim worse. Overflicks, bad spray control and other issues were noted. The benefit is the freedom within the smallest movements, which are not often required in CS. I made a mistake, but I need to continue using it in order to draw a clear conclusion. The best mouse I ever aimed was the Razer Viper Mini (which is now the Razeer Viper Cobra). The moment I picked this mouse it just clicked. Everything, from size, to weight. Since then I became obsessed with mice particularly smaller and lighter mice and I have to admit I did not become better. My prime was with the Viper Mini. I will probably return to the Cobra (since it's just an updated version of the Viper Mini) after i draw a clear conclusion about the Keychron M4, but yeah I totally agree with Zy on this one.
Best players are mostly using mice from their sponsor.
yes! do a video about sensor placement, it always puzzled me.
Some day!
@@RocketJumpNinja the goat replies
In my experience, I aim better when the sensor is closer to my palm than my fingers. The closer the sensor is to the front of the mouse the more shaky my aim is and I have a harder time flicking accurately.
Really you'd want it basically center, where you grip the mouse on both sides for the sense of the sensor centered as you aim with it.
@@StaySic4Ever I aim with my wrist not my palm or my hand itself. The rotation and movement of the mouse originates in the wrist and arm.
What would you recommend for someone like me with smaller hands that is using fingertip without touching the palm ever, only time I touch it is when I know my cs spray is perfectly down. I also need to use the scrollwheel a lot. It is really hard to find a balance where I can scroll freely without needing to adjust to much.
Thoughts op18k wired for cs/val ?
liking it a lot so far just got it today, so far so good bit like a viper mini but nicer, precise not as comfortable (but more comfortable than viper mini) as what im used to g403, thorn, np01, burst pro just feel i needed to lower my sens further compared to those
@honorabilis1 I really like the hump with super light 2 for stability but I've always played better with smaller mice I might try the op18k as I've liked the viper mini and the g203 and having a wire is honestly stress free with a bungee no charging required!
@@Launders- same do like the back hump especially on the burst pro, if that had nicer feel clicks id just use that and if a bit lighter, same for g403. still on the fence with this one i give it a month
@@honorabilis1 yeah it's definitely worth the hype I'm planning on getting one soon
@@Launders-im using a xm2 8k for cs and it feels perfect
I still using ZOWIE EC-2B CS:GO Edition ❤
i like these kind of scientific vids
The og is back❤
Amazing video!
Could you do an equivalent video for movement shooters like apex or marvel rivals?
You should review some Lamzu mice imo :)
Been using a wired FK2 for pretty much the past 7 years. have a bunch of other mice like the superlight etc. I just ordered a Purple frost OP1 8K and it may be the first mouse to make me switch when it arrives. At the same time I may still take my ancient FK2 over it if the hype was over blown.
What are your thoughts? Did you end up going back to FK2 or was dethroned by The OpO1 8K?
Bought Fnatic x Lamzu Maya 8K can't wait to arrive, switching from Razer Viper V2 Pro (had to rma wheel button issues) ♥
Replacement for fk2? Which mouse?
You can go with S2 or U2. I've used FK1+ for years then I figured out I should be using a smaller mouse. Went for viper mini, g305 and S2. Let me tell you this, Zowie can only be replaced by Zowie. S2 has a bump towards the back of the mouse, but once you figure out the grip, it just might be the best mouse to use. I still use my other mice including FK1+ but S2 gives almost 20% better result. From what I know of U2, it's shape is somewhere between FK and S2, for people who like symmetrical mice, that might be the best mix. Of course, since the time it came out the EC series have been considered to be one of the best, I haven't tried it, but it could be the one. P.S. Razer Viper feels closer to the shape of FK, but something is missing, can't pinpoint it exactly so S2 fit better.
@ funfact: i changed to viper ultimate 2017 after my fk2 broke. Now im trying beast x max.. its going great!! Imo 0.7 lod is key in new mouses 😁
@ thanks for info
Xtrfy MZ1 refresh when?
my favorite pseudoscience tech reviewer. what rocks and EDM playlist pair best with my 2:1 mouse for tac shooters
I've used Zowie S1-C then later Vaxee XE and I really like the lower buttons and more sloped buttons on it. I do play mostly Quake or Apex as far as movement wise too.
I find thin grip width best for clicking and flicking, my best mice were the mz1, op1. But I think high hump works better for tracking. My tracking with a za13 is noticeably better than any other mouse I use
I need your help.. I have 19x9.5 hands and use relax claw or fingertip grip (hybrid I think). I Have VV3 Pro and GPX 2. I rly love both of these mice and cant pick one of them.. I play valorant and spectre divide, sometimes “The fianls”. Somedays i feel better with GPX 2, somedays with VV3 Pro. Cant chooooose( Also heard that logitech updated their sensor and now it’s the same level like vv3 pro - im not sure
I agree that zowie fk2 is a great mouse, but after switching to vaxee XE-S I will probably not go back even to DW version. I also play primary CS.
Is the shape similar to fk2?
@GenelatourX Yes, with minor differences in curve and dimensions. It was very easy for me to switch from Fk2 on which I played for 8 years to XE-S.
21x11. Buy any mouse for baby hands and just add griptapes. Thats how Ive done it. Weight doenst matter, but the shape does. Comfort will always be top priority.
idk man.. carbon fibre cube kinda goated
I've been using the ZA13 for cs for 9 years and it's by far my favourite mouse of all time.
I'am with you! im waiting for them to update the mouse with modern tech.
@@donaldlee1427 ZA13-DW
@@donaldlee1427 that should be coming soon ZA13-DW 4K Wireless
Considering the ratios you have talked about, what do you think about the tiny fingertip mice like the HTR from Gwolves or M3K from Zaunkoenig?
I've been using an FK2 since starting Overwatch in 2016 (I think) and haven't found a better shape yet, though I have to say that I'm noticeably worse aiming up/down with it than left/right.
I don't even play fps games and I find these videos interesting anyway.
G pro x was the first ”perfect” mouse for me
It's such a shame they don't make ZA11 or SS 710 like mice (or even wider ones), these shapes are so good for me, it's unreal. No Logitech G Pro "soap" like shapes
how you been able to fully review the Zowie U2 yet? zowie claims "multi angle agility" and supposed "less muscle tension" as well as faster index finger click speed. curious as to your thoughts on the shape.
I keep trying mice... But Deathadder is always the most comfortable, but I find Naga more useful. I tried many many other brands and I always go back to razer. I went through pretty much every mouse they made.
Currently rocking Viper as my naga is out on warranty replacement.
Gigabyte xm300 for me, is the best mouse that i have ever tried
I use a different mouse for Counter-Strike specifically. Need a much more stable mouse.
Literally only 1 mouse that's close to the "right" size for me and it's even shorter than the mouse I'd consider already too short. It's also pretty cheap which is worrying because I'm tired of replacing and RMA'ing mice which is something no one else on Earth cares about.
i have a lamzu super light pro, having a hard time with stability even when panning trying to crosshair placement..
ZA13 DW ? I love the za13 shape but 150 euros for a mouse is kinda crazy
I have the Vaxee E1 and the Fk2-DW.. i cant decide between this two 😱
I've used a zowie fk11 (ergo) for 5 years and last year i switched to a Glorious Model D (right handed shape) and now i can't go back to a ergo shape again... it feels like don't fit nicely in my hands.
i need that scroll wheel accidently limbo tech in a logitech mouse
Razer viper signature magnesium with corepad grip and glass pad for cs2 only
why fk2 place one but no mention of the u2 at all?
Does it's come a updated mz1? New sensor and 4000hz
You should test some steelseries mice
Oof, the Steelseries Rival 300, man I miss that mouse
has your ulx aceu stained or showing any signs?
Not sure about this one. I feel super comfortable with the Orochi v2 shape (using Zaopin Z1 PRO 4K for comp) and that shape is 11x6.2cm. I gues it depends on the grip+hand size? I grip claw on those
Why have you been trying to get back to form?
Is it the lack of burnout?
Regardlees, good luck with your endeavors.
Because I've been testing a lot of mice lately, which meant I had to play a lot anyway and I didn't like that I wasn't performing well... I haven't been trying to get back in form by playing outside of testing or anything, just purely redoing my setups/settings/mindset, etc, which should make for some interesting videos because I was actually being held back by a few things on top of lack of practice. So I figure I'll share those things to help others... then maybe one day I'll actually try to get in my best form, but you're right about that potentially leading to burn out, so I'll be weary of that. For now, just some interesting vids about things we can all do (other than hours in aim trainers/games).
@RocketJumpNinja Those are good to hear.
Regarding the more quaint ideas for videos, I'd suggest one in which you examine exercises that minimize integral wrist damage.
I've been doing armwresting for a couple of years now, many of the arm wrestling exercises can be a blessing to professional gamers; as I was following CS for nearly a decade, and witnessed many pros flattening their career trajectories by needing untimely surgeries.
There is a good and active armwrestling community in Australia. It might even be interesting for you to visit some. (Armwresting communities are very tight knitted and welcoming.)
I can give you some names if you are interested. You can connect with them further if you wish as such (ask them in more detail regarding these subjects, or ask them if there are any Armwresting groups near you).
What kind of exercises? I've played a lot over the last 26 years and haven't had any issues, but then if you watch my gamer health aim video, I show the way I sit, aim, etc, so maybe that's why I've been fine while others who play in awkward/unnatural ways have issues? It's one thing to have exercises to delay the inevitable, another to correct the problem at the source. That said, maybe there's another reason, so I'm interested to learn more. I probably don't have time to join other communities, thanks though!
Well, you basically train the muscles in the lateral plane (flexors and extenders), the muscles in the vertical plane (abductors and extenders) and the rotating muscles -meaning the pronator and the supinator-; these help stabilize the wrist, and I hypothesize mitigate the damage from extreme flicks. But you are correct. Unhealthy postures are the main culprit, and high-risk professional competitions tend to cause such habits.
Lachlan Adair is someone from the armwresting community, which I greatly admire. You can get in contact with him if the interest ever strikes you.
Ok cool. And yeah seeing these guys have their noses to the monitors, leaning forward with their elbows suspended in the air... always worries me for their future health, regardless of whether they think they're ok right now or not.
What about the Endgame gear Op1 8k
Do you like the hsk pro
can you please test keychron m3 and m3 mini, thanks and you make the best mouse explanation videos for competitive players!
FK2 best mouse ever wish there was a good clone
So buying an endgamegear op1 4k for a 20x10 cm hand is a good or bad idea? I currently have an xm2we and I use it very well, but if it really should be a smaller mouse then it may be worth considering it. I was also thinking on viper v3. Whats the best for me?
What do you think about HTX mini 8k. It's very light at 26g
can u review the arbiter akitsu?
Did I not see Superlight on the list? Can you explain why over 60% of pros use it?
Because they get sponsored by logitech mostly
@@Asiran__that’s not true at all. Nobody plays with the mouse they don’t want. That’s their choice.
@@drwhoev I mean it's a safe shape, which explains why so many use it. But It's too universal to be a perfect fit for any specific grip style.
@@Zoalak we are talking about pros who literally play one game and use one grip. Your argument works for common folks that play a wide range of games and would like something universal.
I personally tried more than a dozen different mice. The honey moon with a new mouse typically lasts a week, then I go back to Superlight, because it feels and plays better.
I'm confused why you appear to be palming a fingertip mouse. I thought you determined fingertip to be the most optimal grip?
I use hybrid, so I'm not actually palming it, it's relaxed fingertip grip, angled, with some of my palm touching on the back right of the mouse. And I tried pure fingertip grip and yeah couldn't get control of it properly. Either I don't have enough practice in that grip or my fingers aren't bending in the right way, or something I don't know.
our mice need to be 16:9 so it matches our display resolution
Can you do one for Overwatch?
Not this year but maybe next! It should be pretty close to what the current Top Mice list now is on the website though, because Overwatch aim is fairly similar to Quake aim www.rocketjumpninja.com/top-mice
Best mouse for apex?
currently using razer deathadder v3 playing cs, and it's supreme, but before that I had ZA12-C and it was at least as good
Thanks for the video,could you find a mouse like the mionix naos 7000 but with an actually good sensor?
Could you recommend me a mouse that have really easy to access side buttons for small hands? For some reason the op1 8k's side buttons messes with my mouse grip whenever I need to press it. I used to use the Viper Ultimate and the side button placement is so easy to press and have a consistent mouse grip. But it broke
Could you add or review the brand WLmouse? Doesn't matter which one. (I have the beast x 8k)
I also wonder what you think about WLmouse why it's not top mice list? I also moved from Superlight X and when i used G502 i thought it's top of the line and then got Superlight i was 100% sure there is no better mouse and now bought Beast X 8K and dud it is better in my opinion .
I have 2 WLmouse mice, just waiting on 2 more, then I'll put them all in the one review (saves repeating the same stuff over and over), so yeah, on their way! There are a lot of mice, hard to get through them all. I have about 10 mice next to me that need videos. Next is G Wolves HTR!
I was on G305 for 7 years.
Then i switched to G309.
DONT SWITCH TO G309.
I'll try GPRO SHROUD EDITION soon.
Suggest me small mouse, but in form close to G305 or GPRO Shroud Edition. Plz. Thnx.
can you make video about hitscan hyperlight
Dpi video soon ?
Since i started to use true fingertip mouses for my 100% fingertip grip i cant go back to "normal" mouses. Im Kovaak Top 100 player, but im worse in every game i use a normal mouse. For more stability i recommend going for a HSK Plus which has about 40g which is good for CS, but not so good with my Zaunkoenig mk2...
why dont you cover wlmouse mice?
Only just got some in, waiting on the last 2 then will review.
@@RocketJumpNinja Awesome, I can't wait!
There is no particular mouse for the individual hand of a human. Mice are overrated when it comes to how someone perform in a game.
aliexpress VGN VXE R1 PRO or kysona aztec
That 1:1 mouse looks like an apple product
Razer Viper Ultimate for me, because:
-fingertip grip and so the angle of the sides is really important..
-2L & 2T side buttons
-hypeeshift (you can assign two functions to almost all buttons)
-ambidextrous
..sensors etc are all greay with the top mice
Guys, what is the game he is playing in the video? The game where he uses lasers and rockets and stuff? :D
Quake Live!
Where the hell is lamzu maya x. Dang! Its a top mice now bro.
I reviewed the Fnatic version, it's at number 5 on the list!
try Xm2 8K
Stability comes from weight, thats why cs2 pros use either logitech superlight/razer deathadder v3 or Zowie EC. First two are around 60g, Zowie around 77g.
You can definitely get stability through weight, especially on a glass pad, but then you have the issue of the force needed to move it and it's harder to be accurate when lifting it up and putting it down. I prefer to keep the stability in the shape and a cloth mouse pad, while keeping the mouse as light as possible. Although still figuring out the perfect balance on that.
@@RocketJumpNinjaThe issue with cloth mousepads is the initial friction. It is much harder to track a fast strafing target on a cloth mousepad
@@RocketJumpNinjaWeight might be the lesser of two evils between friction and weight
stability comes from mouse control. Weight gives an illusion of stability
G502 master race 😂
I have a question I don't see discussed online.
So I use a Viper Ultimate and I use both the side buttons on the left and right side (I am right handed). Specifically, the back side button on the left and the front side button on the right. I am not sure of the implications to aim or anything regarding this, but I wonder if there are other players who use their mouse like me. Additionally, I'm also curious if there are other quality mouse that has side buttons on both sides and a good shape for fingertip/claw grip as well.
For reference I play Valorant.
1:30 U to reload is atrocious
Not when your fingers are on FGHJ, go watch my config video! ua-cam.com/video/BNIOtZNKwkU/v-deo.html
what do you think about the Pulsar's?
If you want to aim better, just use aimbot.
I just fell in love with the op18k
all the Op mice! Op1 owner here.
i believe you want up and down movement and get more stability with lower sensitivity, and with that low sens you would want easier up and down movement for spray control.
So what would be your ideal cm/360 and what dimensions on a mouse would you want? Also what's your grip?
@@RocketJumpNinja I play on 86cm/360. 16x8.5 cm hand with palm/claw grip. I tried many mice over 10 years and I would say FK2 shape was good but the weight way to high and modified Za13 54g was better because of the higher back . 2 mains atm are xm2 and ul2 s even though these mice are not for palm grip but I appreciate lower button height.