Leopard 2 built for Defense? Questions for Leopard 2 Gunner
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- Patreon Questions for a former Leopard 2 gunner.
Reichsbierminister:
What are/were his tasks besides aiming, firing and loading?
Did he learn the other Positions on a tank as well?
What is/was the emergency protocol (tank got hit/is on fire/got penetrated and so on) on his position (if there was any special)?
What is his favourite resting spot on or in the tank and why?
What special skill/skills did he learn because of his job as a tanker that benefits him in the civilian wordl?
Karolis:
I've heard that Leopards are engineered and built as a defence tanks - their main role is to serve as a mobile firepoints - basically to and stop attacking tanks from Eastern block (even the gearbox is built with best reverse gear for this specific reason). Any truth in all of this?
Raul:
How good is the hvac system in the Leo, how did it evolve and what would he like to have improved?
How much time is it invested on "damage control" or quick fixes on the field? Is this backup systems a routine training and how much does he appreciate thar there are some plan B options?
How much of a shock was the current situation meaning, is there already retraining with lessons learnt from Ukraine? And follow up what are the shortcomings on working on small teams with infantry?
Scarecrow:
How well does he know other countries' theory and practice, both NATO and elsewhere?
Sina
What does he think of autoloaders in tanks?
Disclaimer in 2018, 2019, 2020 & 2023 I was invited by the Panzermuseum Munster.
/ daspanzermuseum
Cover design by vonKickass.
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00:00 Introduction
02:16 Tasks of the gunner
03:01 Emergency protocols
04:30 Favorite resting position
05:06 Skills transferred into civilian life
05:45 Was the leopard 2 a defensive tank
07:19 HVAC?
08:00 Backup systems and emergency procedures
09:46 Lessons learned from Ukraine
11:10 Infantry support
12:17 Other countries doctrines
13:27 Auto loaders
#leopard2 #bundeswehr #tank
About the HVAC mentioned at 07:19 thanks to Andrew for letting us know that it is about heating. Here is my answer:
The Name HVAC wasnt known to me since we use a rather different Term in German.
I served on 3 Variants of Leopard 2. The Leopard 2A6, the Leopard 2A6M+ and the Leopard 2A7 as it was introduced in 2014. The two first one, the A6 and the A6m+ had only Heating. It was in the Hull and its controlled by the Driver. Its very powerfull and we tended to see it either as no heating or too warm. It was good in Winter but when you are directly infront of the blower, depending where the turret is rotated, it can get too warm for you.
With the Leopard 2A7 there was a AC System introduced. But it wasnt build in for the Crew. It was build in for the additional electronics that came into the A7. Like the BMS (Battlemanagement System) or a 3rd Radio. It fullfiled its job and had like a Tunnel with ventilation Holes going along the Maingun. I cant really tell what should improve since i havent served on the Leopard 2A7V. This Variant recieved a complete new AC System also designed to cool down the Crew.
I'm afraid German companies and management have always seen air conditioning as an unnecessary luxury and denied it. It's very short sighted and a very German thing whether its company cars or tanks and ifv. Whereas its seen as an essential in many countries that not only improves ergonomic but crew efficiency and reduces fatigue. Right now tanks are being destroyed in Ukraine with ease because hatches have to be left open or else the crew passes out. Crews ride on top of IFV to stay coo exposing themselves to air burst ammunition and small arms fire or micro-drones entering hatches with grenades. l. It's also a Russian problem but its absurd. I would say a big part of the problem with PzH 2000 was its lack of A/C which means dust gets in as well.
HVAC would more likely used for buildings. For a car or tank you would call it AC, air conditioning, quasi Klimaanlage.
Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning
I read the title as "Leopard 2 for home defense?" and I would wager that a Leopard 2 would be very good at home defense.
lol, as long if you a proper lines of fire and a rather large garden I would guess.
As long as you watch it when you back up, or it might defeat your home.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualizedand neighbours that are hobbits
It wouldn't be good at home defense if you put it inside the home though.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualizedanyone who still tries to invade a home defended by Leopard 2 tank must be very well determined
High Velocity Air Conditioner - I highly prefer that versus the actual meaning of the abbreviation. I will use that on jobsites from now on when talking about piping and overhead installation!
*we need cooling and we need it NOW*
In Australia the crews become "3 ways fit". You usually start as a Driver, then qualify as a Loader and then qualify as a Gunner. Once you have all three, you progress to the Crew Commander's course.
Leopard 2 in Germany was operated mainly by soldiers doing a compulsory service that only were available for 9 - 12 months, before they left again to civil life. So time for training different roles was limited.
@@Ekvldmsn Not here it isn't - its a course.
Yes you learn on the job as well, but you can't fill the seat until you are qualified. Crewman Driver Sig or Crewman Gunner Sig, etc.
Tank talk on tank, love the idea 😊
Thanks! 😊
Hvac... Heat/Ventilation/Air-Conditioning
Good Q+A, I can tell because when it finished, it didn't seem like it had been even close to 15 minutes.
I must be getting old. I've never seen tank riders dressed and equipped in this manner before . . . must be some new German doctrine I'm not familiar with.
It's casual Friday the 13th
New urban cammo.
he says he retired from military service and works some sort of railroad job now.
10:14 "Gefecht der verbundenen Waffen" English: combined arms
there are few people how have talked about combined arms warfare publicaly in the english languange than MHV
Should've been titled "Answering questions on the Leopard 2."
Thank you both for this and doing this in english! I could never do it in German as my Aunt Vi just past away at 101.
“playing war thunder”🤣i love this. channel👍🏽
Excellent
Interesting, when he said systems engineer/operator and autoloader.
I've got ideas and I'm sure all of them are wrong. That level of integration and having a person to monitor and manage that?
Cue the old IT joke, have you tried turn it on and off again?
Did he say: write down radio transmissions?
Dude, does everything have to be a micromanaged office nowadays??!!!
idc about loaders and autoloaders or if it's 120mm, 140mm or 150mm calibre.
i'm still waiting on oversized superheavy tanks that are nuclear powered and have railguns as their main armament. the tank crew's (similar in number to ww1) main job would be manning aa guns, watching all kinds of screens with drones, gps, infrared, ultrasound, sonar (mine detection) and what not. crew would be too big for a single commander so he'd have two deputies.
like a ww2 land battleship, but high tech. it's not like maus, ratte or t35, they wouldnt just be sitting ducks for tactical bombing bc you wouldnt send your tanks to such a place at such a time either, way too expensive. these tanks couldnt be taken out by even the highest tech atgm's or rpg's due to the sheer amount of armour possible. reactive armor on top of composite armor at the very least, it's nuclear powered so it doesnt matter. could even have its own plow and inflatable raft and snorkle bc without the engine using so much air, it's pretty easy to ford water objects with it.
The 120mm Rh-120 gun uses a single piece round with combustible cartridge. That keeps the weight down. A round above 120mm is very hard to handle otherwise and needs to be two piece or use an auto loader.
Western manual loading is almost twice as fast as Russian carousel auto-loader and doesn't come with the 'flying turret effect'. in addition you get the extra manpower of the loader who will help you get first shot first kill by helping out in observation and assisting the commander.
-When western tanks use an auto loader its a cassete style auto-loader with ammunition stowage in the turret bustle with blow out panels so the turret doesn't blow of. That would be LeClerk, Black Panther and the Japanese tanks.
-Calibers bigger than 130mm will definitely need auto loaders.
@@williamzk9083 lost?
@@williamzk9083 5 sec reloads are twice as fast as 6.5 sec, and 7.1 secs??? Also the French, Japanese have autoloaders… They hit 3 secs… Furthermore, the Americans built a carousel autoloading system for the M1 TTB. The issue is, a carousel autoloader makes the most sense when all crew is in the hull, with a hull with insane protection.
I’d like to add that, with the given information most Ammo cook offs are via the loose ammo in the front of the hull near the driver (something the Challenger 2, and Leopard 2 also have struggle with unless you want to carry 14-16 rounds which is very little in combat)… I h8 the Russian government too, but I refuse to let my politics, and bias for countries that don’t give an F about me at all get in the way of empirical reality.
The issue with Russia technology wise seems to not be a lack of knowledge, or lack of ability to produce. But rather the corruption that runs DEEP within that country. It’s so deep it cuts into the already corrupt military industrial complex. In America our corrupt military industrial complex has more power, and wouldn’t allow itself to be robbed of money by the oligarchs/elites.
If you do this for a few more years and always visit tank museum the Disclaimer will start to fill up the screen :)
Thanks both of you for the Interview. I didnt realize the Loader still plays such an important role apart from loading. I would have thought more modern radios would have removed that requirement.
I think it's reasonable to expect and train Anglophones to correctly pronounce the name of this tank as Le-o-pard. A "leper" is something different.
👍👍
He says MG3, but my ears hear MG42. 😁👍
So the loader is kind of the mother of the tank by all his duties ?
The loader is kind of the spirit animal of the tank
Why didn't you invite Rolf Hilmes?
German armor post WWII, are oriented toward defensive survival. As a NATO member their primary role was the defense of the Fulda Gap. The gap was the natural invasion route for the WARSAW Pact. The US Army in Germany, and the British, known as the BAOR. Would also engage at the Fulda Gap. Their mission was to, as mentioned, delay the Warsaw Pact. This would allow Operation Reforager to commence. Troops would be flown to prepositioned equipment while additional troops, supplies, and heavy weapons would be sent by ship to key ports.
Stop waffling BAOR was nowhere near the Fulda Gap that was in the Americans AOR the British were in the north. i.pinimg.com/736x/8f/f8/2e/8ff82ed30ca2a21b5bd83ad4effda164--randalls-nato.jpg
The British didn't cover the Fulda gap - we were deployed to cover the North German Plain, another natural invasion route, along with the Dutch and the West German I Corps. Their II Corp was in the area of the Fulda gap.
From what I gather the Soviet battle plan was to not come screaming down the Fulda gap but come screaming towards I Dutch and I Belgian Corps in the Northern sector, as they perceived them to be the weakest links in the NATO chain. The whole obsession with the Fulda gap seems to be something the Americans in particular were obsessed with, but as we have seen in a lot of wars the American military is competent at a lower level, but their generals not so much. And as we have also seen in the Ukraine, advertising your operations in advance is not a smart thing and Soviet generals at least were competent enough to no do the advertised thing. They probably would have sent a combined arms army down the Fulda gap to keep the Americans and Germans there busy, probably with the more expendable East Germans in support, but far more likely they would have gone for the main thrust up north.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 the question is, how would they have managed to cross the Elbe river in the north. They would have needed massiv troops passing the river to get further west. And it would have been easier and faster to move troops from the Fulda gap further north than to cross the Elbe to break through.
@@henner7371 Smash the Dutch Corps, drop some airborne troops on the other hand, have engineers ready or drive tanks across its bottom with snorkels, it's not like the Soviet army historically was slowed down much by rivers. They know to cross them. But attacking the strongest best equipped force in NATO in a tightly confined area, where they have planned their defense in depth, vs. a much weaker force in flat open terrain, I know what I would pick.
In the US, you are trained dor all three positions (not track commander) before being assigned to a unit. For some in the military, a military vehicle is the first vehicle they get a license for.
Where you get that idea
90% have drivers licenses before joining
I am pretty sure in the modern Canadian military the driver is the 1st and lowest of the tank crew. And the newest
Same in the US, for AFVs and most other vehicles as well. We also cross train for every position except vehicle commander, although the gunner sometimes does one on one training with the commander to learn the position. t
Wrong
New guy is the loader as that job sucks
Need a smart person to drive and aim the main gun
@@tomhenry897
Are you an American ?
Or are you speaking from knowledge of the Canadian military ?
@@tomhenry897Different armies, different approaches. In the British army you start off as driver, then learn the gunners position and then move to the loaders job, the loader is also 2IC of the tank. Among his other jobs he has control of the BV (Boiling Vessel) so gets the brews on. This is a vital role.
Thought it was a cavalry tank
"No because you need the specific liscense for the tracked vehicles" You cant get anymore german than that 🤣. Only in germany can you be allowed to fire the 120mm main gun and machine guns of a tank but not allowed to drive because you need a liscense lol.
If your building an MBT intended for export climate control should be standard equipment
All Western tanks are designed to fulfil all combat modes: delay, defense and attack.
Soviet tanks are designed to fulfil all combat modes: attack in summer, attack in winter, attack in mud.
Alphabet soup is a superb obstacle.
Thanks Bernhard and Tobias. I agree that autoloaders will be essential with the new NATO smoothbore gun, whichever calibre is chosen. I also agree with Tobias assertion that you will still need a four man crew, not only for his stated example of track repair in a hostile environment but also because a trained four team man is always superior to a trained three man/woman/person team; both for physical tasks and and for long periods of high concentration on observation and analysis of a situation. You are always at a gross disadvantage with a three person crew.
I say this, as a sixty year old carpenter who spent twelve years as a Territorial Force Royal New Zealand Engineer and who has participated in a variety of paid/unpaid activities where a minimum four person team was essential for long periods of time. A three person team tends to lose efficiency far more quickly than a four person team, in the real world.
But do they slice like a knife through butter!? 😅
lol
Does it have a boiling vessel?
No, but you get a Beer Tap and 4 Bier Stein in Oliv... 😂
@@papaaaaaaa2625MORE IMPORTANTLY!
BABE WAKE UP NEWEST LEOPARD 2 COPE JUST DROPPED!!!!!
As Ukraine shows, mines are the biggest problem. It doesn't take much to blow off a track. Russians have used incredible densities of mines in open fields. All the other issues-like Russian artillery, drones, tanks-we have great solutions for. Mines are a bastard. Really a war crime because it makes the zone uninhabitable for decades to come. We need better answers to mines. The best answer would've been equipping Ukraine more aggressively earlier, so it could destroy the mine-laying artillery and gone mobile before the fields were sown.
🤣
Seems that no one asked the million dollar question, why did NATO send an expensive tank into Ukraine without equipping it with active protection systems.
NATO doesn't even use active protection.
HVAC = heating, ventilation, and air conditioning
I laughed when he said high velocity air conditioning lmao
@@LordJuan4 Well I guess if you turn it up?
@@LordJuan4 When we had Leopard 1 they had a great heater - good for Southern Australia. Not so good when the tanks relocated to tropical Darwin.
Being inside a metal box when its 35C outside is not fun.
I didn't suspect that at least a part of that was correct.
The funny thing about Ukraine and every other war is that people look at it and go "what can we learn from this...?" but instead of taking lessons from specific situations they think the trends from the war will apply exactly to the next war 🤣
And so they will always waste billions by creating the perfect weapons for the previous conflict.
Well, you could already take lessons from the American Civil war for the Great war. I guess some lessons from Ukraine will be very important for future wars.
The Crew Commander is the crew's Father. The Loader is the crew's Mother.
The loader is the guy everyone kicks as he’s on the bottom
@@tomhenry897 Not a good approach if you don't want something added to your brew. ;)
They burn well. (Хорошо они горят.)
HVAC = Klimaanlage
The Leopard, along with the Abrams, A-10's and Apaches were designed to hold back the Russian hordes. Now they are serving their purpose.
Slava Ukraini 💙💛
Soviets*; and Ukranians are part of it, besides, the late 2 are not being used by Ukranians, what a nog tier comment, lmao.
Russia fought on the side of the UK and USA during WWII, Ukraine fought on the other side, the Nazi side. They still revere those Nazis even today.
@@MarceloHenriqueSoaresdaSilvathat’s like saying Estonians were Soviets
Russians don’t exactly ask people to join them…just ask the people in their own country
@@looinrims Kyiv was one of the first cities to fall under local Bolsheviks. Local people who were Ukrainians and Communists . No one forced Communism on Ukraine. Baltics were different for sure, but people really don't realize how popular Communism was after WWII. As Kotkin notes if there wasn't an agreement with Stalin and the US, many more countries would have been communist. Greece is a good example.
People like you probably don't know where Ukraine was, when these tanks were designed.
Leopard 2: total failure... Just like in Syria
Ehhh, based on what? Leopard 2 have not been used in Syria!
@@TheEsseboy It WAS used in Syria conflict. Turkey border...
@@user-li8oq3om9o They were old 2A4s without support, Turkey used them in a very bad way. Any tank will get destroyed if ambushed by RPGs and mines...no tank can survive that.
Exactly! Their turrets haven't flown nearly as high as those of the superior Russian tanks.
@@JanoTuotanto Never seen one fly, they just blow their blow out panels if struck by a round, Challenger 2 however can blow their Turret, they do not have safe ammunition storage, but a bit more armor.
At least russia hasn't blown up that one lol...wo would have thought german tanks would be in Russia again ... getting blown up...again... do you know what the definition of insanity is ?😊
In russia? Leos are used to defend ukraine. Stop defending russian war criminals.
Russia only destroyed a handful of them, while there were built by the thousands.
@@chefchaudard3580Do you need more kool aid or copium?
No German tanks in ruzzia as far as I know.
@@akula9713 ??
Tanks are little more than metal coffins.
what is a uniform of an infantry soldier than?
That cannon isn’t very little…
Incredibly uneducated take.
@@markusdegenhardt8678the term would be shroud
false
please do a video on these
(this is a copy and paste list for a few channels)
units and tactics/evaluation of loadouts of troops (from different jobs (and other branches)
the tank doctrine of countries
evaluation of tank veiw ports
evaluation of tanks/armored vehicles of different countries
navil ship cross sections (all the rooms and how it all works)
evaluation of types of ships
or evaluation of navil warfare
flag ship vs capital ship,
battleship vs dreadnought
air craft carrier strike group formations exsamples,
ancient persan ships,
ancient veneti ships (gauls that fought ceaser)
better for squads to be 2 teams of 5 or 3 teams of 3,
and probably the esayest, better to keep troops well feed or starved like an animal
how dose age effect comsnders eg napoleon got older so took less risks,
ancient urban warfare
ww2 tactics in Asia, tactics in the Chinese age of warlords,
tactics in the ruso jap war
cold war navil tactics,
Korean war tactics,
strange tactics or unque battles from the American war of independence and America civil war
why did the Japanese empire fall, dont just say "America" like things like how there army and navy argued alot