My buddy has a vantage and i absolutely hate it lol. I did buy both revos and used them both for a while, sold them went back to wood. Just bought the Revo 12.9 again and I feel back in love with it. Best shaft on the market. Shane van boening just played a tournament in my province and everybody tried the cuetec cynergy shaft, he brought a few extras down with him. And everybody said they loved it, some said it was better than the Revo. Either way the Revo is an absolute upgrade from 314, vantage and Z. It's amazing
I have played with nothing but Predator shafts since their inception, I believe I had one of the first 100 Predators ever produced and have not turned back. The primary difference between the Revo 12.4 and the 12.9 is as the Dr, said the 12.4 does get more English but what he failed to mention is it also generates greater deflection. In my opinion the 12.9 plays very similar to the original Predator shafts, including the Predator 2's and 3's (excluding the Predator Z shafts which I was never a fan of). My first experience with the Revo was at the Allen Hopkins Billiards Expo last year with a Predator Sales Rep. He initially gave me the 12.4 and I hit a few balls with it loading up the cueball with as much English as I could generate and I was missing shots. I handed it back to him and said I wasn't interested. He stopped me and then switched the cue to the 12.9. After hitting the same series of shots that I did with the 12.4 I was like "awwwww now this is the Predator accuracy that I have grown accustom to all these years". I instantly gave him my credit card and have been in love with my Revo 12.9 ever since.
Hi Tim, thank you for your comment! Actually at 3:55 in this video, I do mention what you said about the 12.9 having less defelction than the 12.4! I just wanted to be extra certain I covered everything! Thank you for the input though! I'm glad you like the Revo 12.9! Hope you are enjoying the videos!
hmmm the butt of the cue is important but definitely not as important as the shaft. Honestly a lot of it comes down to look. In terms of quick release vs radial, I like quick release. My argument for that is the quick release is just so widespread across all cue manufactuers so you can easily switch it out for a break shaft, a backup shaft, etc. Other than that, both quick release and radial are going to be the top of the line joints
Hi Dimitri, Thanks for the question! So when you say smaller shaft, I am going to assume you are talking about a smaller tip radius - this is the curvature of the tip of the cue - which is usually refered to as nickel, dime, or quarter radius - and you are talking about the smaller diameter of the tip - the width of the actual tip, as I explain in this video for Revo shafts, either 12.4 or 12.9 mm, or more standard on playing cues you buy outside of Revo will be 12.75mm. So radius and diameter are not related at all in pool just to be clear! d=2r is not true in pool!haha
So lets start with a smaller tip radius. If you use nickel radius (larger, flatter radius) instead of dime, this is what happens: as you are putting spin on the ball, lets say backspin, you strike lower on the cue ball and the shaft is parallel to the table. The tip of the nickel radius tip will strike the cue ball sooner and higher up on the cue ball than the shaft of the smaller radius tip (imagine a flat battering ram striking the bottom of a huge rock boulder compared to a pointed batter ram striking at the same height as the flat better ram on the huge rock boulder - the flat battering ram's top part will strike higher up on the boulder and will strike earlier than the pointed battering ram). So this is important for two reasons, first you are able to strike in theory (like I said, very small difference) lower with the dime raidus than the nickel radius. And this difference is magnified becuase of the curvature of the cue ball!! What I mean by this is that as you move further down on the cue ball, the curve increases from your angle ( when striking in the center of the cue ball, it is flat and when you move more and more downward, it becomes more and more curved keeping the cue at the same angle to the table!). When the cue is striking at a bigger curvature of the cue ball, the tip actually gets more surface contact on the cue ball! This increased contact surface area imparts more spin on the cue ball allowing for more spin!! Fascinating stuff! I love the physics of pool
So in case you didn't read my massively long explanation, the key is that the dime radius actually gives you increases surface area contact on the cue ball than the nickel radius. And this increased surface area allows you to put more spin on the cue ball.
The smaller shaft diameter is a similar logic except that it only applies when the cue is aimed at an angle (not parallel to the table, such as if you are striking downward at the cue ball slightly) or when you are striking to the edges of the cue ball since now the shaft tip on the edge will come in contact earlier (note that this does not occur unless you strike (like about 1.5 tips or more) on the edges of the cue ball because in theory, the curvature of the cue ball is now changing at a faster rate than the curvature at the edges of the cue tip meaning that the further you strike towards the edges of the cue ball, the more important the diameter and radius of the tip will be since the curvature of the cue ball is increasing faster than the curvature of the tip such that the tip's outer edges are now striking earlier and closer to the center than if you used a smaller diameter or a smaller radius. This is tricky to explain but I can explain it again if you really would like me to! With this in mind, the logic is the same as the radius explnation of increased contact time allowing more spin.
A second reason for the increased spin for smaller diamater will you much simpler logic that is based on experiences of players (not necessarily backed by physics) which is that the smaller diameter allows you to pinpoint easier where on the cue ball you want to hit. With increased pinpoint accuracy, you can be more exact when you hit off center. Despite that argument not being backed by physics, I can persoanlly agree that I find it easier to have pinpoint accuracy with 12.4 mm than with my 12.75 mm or especially when I use a 13 mm house cue
what I'm stumped on is the Z2 is suppose to have the least deflection being the smaller diameter, but when it comes to the Revo, people say the smaller diameter creates More deflection, and the larger one creates less. So what I'm hearing is, when it comes to wood shafts the small diameter creates. less deflection but with a composite shaft it creates more deflection? Talk about science that makes no sense to my brain.
hmm that is an interesting point. For the wood shafts, the logic makes sense. The Z2 has smallest diameter and is able to "get out of the way" of the cue ball during the follow through stroke when using side spin. As the shaft is thinner, it is also whippier so it more easily gets out of the way and prevents unwanted deflection of the shaft pushing the cue ball to the opposite direction as the side spin you are using. A more solid shaft like vantage will not get out of the way, so you will have more deflection
Why the opposite is true for revo, I am not sure (I also wonder if this is actually true or just a rumor as I have yet to see a scientific experiment to show it). It could possibly be (just a theory) that the people who are testing this deflection are hitting on the same spot on the cue ball with both the revo 12.4 and 12.9 and what they see is the 12.4 deflects more. However! dont forget that the 12.4 also generates more side spin when hitting on the same spot as the 12.9. This means for example, if we strike the cue ball at .25" from the center (lets say to the right side) using a 12.9, you would actually get more spin when hitting on the same spot using the 12.4. If you wanted to compare the deflection in terms of how much spin is generated, the 12.9 would need to hit the cue ball further to the right in order generate the same spin as the 12.4. The further you hit over, the more deflection. So be sure to keep this in mind! As when you want to get the cue ball to a certain posiiton using side spin, the diameter of the shaft will determine where you hit on the cue ball (how far off center, less for 12.4 and more for 12.9 to generate same amount of spin). Taking each of these into account you will need to compare those different distances to the defelction each generates and I wouldn't be surpised if the 12.9 in those scenarios generated notieably more defelction. hmmm an interesting thought. I love the game of pool so much
From what I understand, deflection increases depending on the weight of the first 6-8inches of your shaft, which is front-end mass. Meaning that the z2 shaft is lighter in the front because of the taper, diameter of the shaft, and along with shorter ferule. Revo has a hollow core, is using a material light than wood, and no ferule, possibly the lowest front end mass shaft on the market
TheBilliardsDoctor I finally got to try the 12.4 Revo. I tried the 12.9 and thought it was the worst shaft I ever hit a ball with as far as LD shafts go. My opinion on the 12.4 is polar opposite. It plays fantastic for my style of play and I play at a decent speed and have won some decent events here in Canada. I can only say one negative point about the shaft. Because the shaft is black , sometimes you get a odd glare from the light that looks odd when your aiming. Doesn't happen all the time, just on certain angles and lighting. Besides that, I wouldn't change anything about this shaft . I hope to get a backup 12.4 when I can find one.
My buddy has a vantage and i absolutely hate it lol. I did buy both revos and used them both for a while, sold them went back to wood. Just bought the Revo 12.9 again and I feel back in love with it. Best shaft on the market. Shane van boening just played a tournament in my province and everybody tried the cuetec cynergy shaft, he brought a few extras down with him. And everybody said they loved it, some said it was better than the Revo. Either way the Revo is an absolute upgrade from 314, vantage and Z. It's amazing
I have played with nothing but Predator shafts since their inception, I believe I had one of the first 100 Predators ever produced and have not turned back. The primary difference between the Revo 12.4 and the 12.9 is as the Dr, said the 12.4 does get more English but what he failed to mention is it also generates greater deflection. In my opinion the 12.9 plays very similar to the original Predator shafts, including the Predator 2's and 3's (excluding the Predator Z shafts which I was never a fan of). My first experience with the Revo was at the Allen Hopkins Billiards Expo last year with a Predator Sales Rep. He initially gave me the 12.4 and I hit a few balls with it loading up the cueball with as much English as I could generate and I was missing shots. I handed it back to him and said I wasn't interested. He stopped me and then switched the cue to the 12.9. After hitting the same series of shots that I did with the 12.4 I was like "awwwww now this is the Predator accuracy that I have grown accustom to all these years". I instantly gave him my credit card and have been in love with my Revo 12.9 ever since.
Hi Tim, thank you for your comment! Actually at 3:55 in this video, I do mention what you said about the 12.9 having less defelction than the 12.4! I just wanted to be extra certain I covered everything! Thank you for the input though! I'm glad you like the Revo 12.9! Hope you are enjoying the videos!
TheBilliardsDoctor I'm a fan Doc! I find your videos very informative. I'm a lefty as well which helps me relate on your shot demos.
I want to buy the revo 12.9 but I am unsure what butt to buy. Any recommendations on the cheapest route? Radial or quick release?
hmmm the butt of the cue is important but definitely not as important as the shaft. Honestly a lot of it comes down to look. In terms of quick release vs radial, I like quick release. My argument for that is the quick release is just so widespread across all cue manufactuers so you can easily switch it out for a break shaft, a backup shaft, etc. Other than that, both quick release and radial are going to be the top of the line joints
Revo sport
Can someone objectively explain how a smaller shaft yields more spin?
Hi Dimitri, Thanks for the question! So when you say smaller shaft, I am going to assume you are talking about a smaller tip radius - this is the curvature of the tip of the cue - which is usually refered to as nickel, dime, or quarter radius - and you are talking about the smaller diameter of the tip - the width of the actual tip, as I explain in this video for Revo shafts, either 12.4 or 12.9 mm, or more standard on playing cues you buy outside of Revo will be 12.75mm. So radius and diameter are not related at all in pool just to be clear! d=2r is not true in pool!haha
So lets start with a smaller tip radius. If you use nickel radius (larger, flatter radius) instead of dime, this is what happens: as you are putting spin on the ball, lets say backspin, you strike lower on the cue ball and the shaft is parallel to the table. The tip of the nickel radius tip will strike the cue ball sooner and higher up on the cue ball than the shaft of the smaller radius tip (imagine a flat battering ram striking the bottom of a huge rock boulder compared to a pointed batter ram striking at the same height as the flat better ram on the huge rock boulder - the flat battering ram's top part will strike higher up on the boulder and will strike earlier than the pointed battering ram). So this is important for two reasons, first you are able to strike in theory (like I said, very small difference) lower with the dime raidus than the nickel radius. And this difference is magnified becuase of the curvature of the cue ball!! What I mean by this is that as you move further down on the cue ball, the curve increases from your angle ( when striking in the center of the cue ball, it is flat and when you move more and more downward, it becomes more and more curved keeping the cue at the same angle to the table!). When the cue is striking at a bigger curvature of the cue ball, the tip actually gets more surface contact on the cue ball! This increased contact surface area imparts more spin on the cue ball allowing for more spin!! Fascinating stuff! I love the physics of pool
So in case you didn't read my massively long explanation, the key is that the dime radius actually gives you increases surface area contact on the cue ball than the nickel radius. And this increased surface area allows you to put more spin on the cue ball.
The smaller shaft diameter is a similar logic except that it only applies when the cue is aimed at an angle (not parallel to the table, such as if you are striking downward at the cue ball slightly) or when you are striking to the edges of the cue ball since now the shaft tip on the edge will come in contact earlier (note that this does not occur unless you strike (like about 1.5 tips or more) on the edges of the cue ball because in theory, the curvature of the cue ball is now changing at a faster rate than the curvature at the edges of the cue tip meaning that the further you strike towards the edges of the cue ball, the more important the diameter and radius of the tip will be since the curvature of the cue ball is increasing faster than the curvature of the tip such that the tip's outer edges are now striking earlier and closer to the center than if you used a smaller diameter or a smaller radius. This is tricky to explain but I can explain it again if you really would like me to! With this in mind, the logic is the same as the radius explnation of increased contact time allowing more spin.
A second reason for the increased spin for smaller diamater will you much simpler logic that is based on experiences of players (not necessarily backed by physics) which is that the smaller diameter allows you to pinpoint easier where on the cue ball you want to hit. With increased pinpoint accuracy, you can be more exact when you hit off center. Despite that argument not being backed by physics, I can persoanlly agree that I find it easier to have pinpoint accuracy with 12.4 mm than with my 12.75 mm or especially when I use a 13 mm house cue
what I'm stumped on is the Z2 is suppose to have the least deflection being the smaller diameter, but when it comes to the Revo, people say the smaller diameter creates More deflection, and the larger one creates less.
So what I'm hearing is, when it comes to wood shafts the small diameter creates. less deflection but with a composite shaft it creates more deflection?
Talk about science that makes no sense to my brain.
hmm that is an interesting point. For the wood shafts, the logic makes sense. The Z2 has smallest diameter and is able to "get out of the way" of the cue ball during the follow through stroke when using side spin. As the shaft is thinner, it is also whippier so it more easily gets out of the way and prevents unwanted deflection of the shaft pushing the cue ball to the opposite direction as the side spin you are using. A more solid shaft like vantage will not get out of the way, so you will have more deflection
Why the opposite is true for revo, I am not sure (I also wonder if this is actually true or just a rumor as I have yet to see a scientific experiment to show it). It could possibly be (just a theory) that the people who are testing this deflection are hitting on the same spot on the cue ball with both the revo 12.4 and 12.9 and what they see is the 12.4 deflects more. However! dont forget that the 12.4 also generates more side spin when hitting on the same spot as the 12.9. This means for example, if we strike the cue ball at .25" from the center (lets say to the right side) using a 12.9, you would actually get more spin when hitting on the same spot using the 12.4. If you wanted to compare the deflection in terms of how much spin is generated, the 12.9 would need to hit the cue ball further to the right in order generate the same spin as the 12.4. The further you hit over, the more deflection. So be sure to keep this in mind! As when you want to get the cue ball to a certain posiiton using side spin, the diameter of the shaft will determine where you hit on the cue ball (how far off center, less for 12.4 and more for 12.9 to generate same amount of spin). Taking each of these into account you will need to compare those different distances to the defelction each generates and I wouldn't be surpised if the 12.9 in those scenarios generated notieably more defelction. hmmm an interesting thought. I love the game of pool so much
From what I understand, deflection increases depending on the weight of the first 6-8inches of your shaft, which is front-end mass. Meaning that the z2 shaft is lighter in the front because of the taper, diameter of the shaft, and along with shorter ferule. Revo has a hollow core, is using a material light than wood, and no ferule, possibly the lowest front end mass shaft on the market
TheBilliardsDoctor I finally got to try the 12.4 Revo. I tried the 12.9 and thought it was the worst shaft I ever hit a ball with as far as LD shafts go.
My opinion on the 12.4 is polar opposite. It plays fantastic for my style of play and I play at a decent speed and have won some decent events here in Canada.
I can only say one negative point about the shaft. Because the shaft is black , sometimes you get a odd glare from the light that looks odd when your aiming. Doesn't happen all the time, just on certain angles and lighting. Besides that, I wouldn't change anything about this shaft . I hope to get a backup 12.4 when I can find one.