@Blah Anger My biggest issue with the Kharkanas trilogy was how it seemed like no one ever said anything straight. They are one and all just a tad too poetic.
I personally think it was a mistake to read this book third instead of second, because by reading Memories of Ice second you stayed with much the same group of characters for a longer amount of time. The problem with this is it then makes the switch in cast of Deadhouse Gates all the more jarring, and it breaks with some of the meta-symmetry of how the series is structured. However as the break has already been made, don't be to surprised by the next book starting with unfamiliar characters again.
Has he said that he read Memories of Ice second? I didn't know there was a block of fans who seriously would consider reading the series this way. Just seems like a recipe for problems.
He read Memories of Ice second because Anomander Rake was in his fantasy character tournament and since Anomader Rake wasn't in Deadhouse Gates, Daniel skipped it so he could have more information for the tournament.
"Coltaine rattles slow across the burning land. The wind howls through the bones of his hate-ridden command. Coltaine leads a chain of dogs ever snapping at his hand. Coltaine's fist bleeds the journey home along rivers of red-soaked sand. His train howls through his bones in spiteful reprimand. Coltaine leads a chain of dogs ever snapping at his hand."
Is Malazan tricky to get into, hell yes. Does Malazan overload the reader with characters and world building on scale almost unprecedented, damn straight. Is Malazan (the original ten volumes by Erikson) the most rewarding the fantasy series I've read in thirty years? Yes. Without a doubt, yes.
The only series I've read I have similar regard for is Robin hobb's realm of the elderlings, although for completely different reasons. The emotional impact of those books is absolutely unparalleled.
@Gene Litvinov this is why I'll probably never read malazan. Every fan I've met act like they've got 5000 IQ and they're part of some super elite club just cuz they managed to finish reading the series. Grow up man Also on the very low chance that you're joking: It's not funny.
It's okay to say, to my mind, that you are not the biggest fan of Erikson's writing style. That's fine, because that's personal, and Erikson's style is extremely dense. But the truth is that the skill with which the prose is constructed is immaculate. Erikson is a university trained short-story writer, and it shows in how he writes. It's just, this type of dense, multi-layered prose is not that common in fantasy. As a reader of fantasy you are thrust into an unfamiliar world so simple, easily followed prose can be used to balance that out. Erikson doesn't do that, and that makes it difficult to approach, but there is a reason why most 'literary' fiction is also written in a dense style: it holds much more depth.
Thank you for this comment. I have found the Malazan series to be most most rewarding fantasy endeavor, and second place isn't remotely close. No author that is writing poorly can possible pull the emotional responses from me like these books did.
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with Erikson's style. I like the poetic quality and the density. And I have no problem with processing complexity. Keeps the brain healthy and lithe.
THOUGHTS: Although this is not the best book in the series, This is a book I will never EVER forget. At the end of my read I was emotionally wiped out and physically exhaust. If I have learned one thing from this series it is compassion. ........ I feel like this format of review just does not work for the malazan books, as it needs to be read (Twice!) to be understood. I have watched people try and digest this series before and I would love to tell you: Carry on with the series this guy knows what he is doing and it will all be worth it in the end! I mean it's the biggest fantasy world ever created how could you not like that? But, Instead I will say if this book is a 2 /5 leave the series and come back to it latter when you find yourself bored of fantasy and instead of coming to this series as : Ahh, I want to read this series but its soo damn complex!! Come back at a time when you can say: I'm So f# ING tired of fantasy and I want a challenge, I want a series where I will not be told the answer, I need to figure out the answer, F#°K it I want something complex!!! I'm rambling I know but whatever. What I am saying also is if you are critizizing the books because they jump around too much then you should not continue in that mind state, This never stops all the way up to book 10. Also, when you say they are not written very well I understand what you are saying but the Malazan books are not made to be easy reads, this is my opinion but on reading the series the books are made harder to understand purposefully one example is how characters names change or how you are introtuced to characters even towards the end of the books. You don't follow one character you follow 300, There are no main characters In this series and that is something to remember, this is not a 10 book series about Paran or some other hero this just adds to the confusion. This is not an Easy read. One comment you made I have to disagree with a little (No Hate) is the lack of Stand out characters. I Mean by the end of the chain of dogs I was not saying to my self, well OK. But there were no stand out characters I was crying. But, then again we are all different and have a plethora of different opinions. And that it for my first comment but trust me not my first video of yours or the last, keep up the good work. Lots of love to everyone John
Hey man, great framing of Deadhouse Gates. It takes such a massive toll and you really captured the weight. There's gravity to this story, there's tragedy and i think the experience has value beyond (and no offense to people who want different things) our story preferences being met. Put another way, if a story veers sharply from an efficient "hero's journey" narrative it could go either way. Depends if the product of that new direction is coincidentally what you want. That's putting aside the outcome of this new direction failing. I think Deadhouse Gates and Malazan as a whole depart from many conventions and that's a part of the challenge.
DG is an exquisitely unpleasant read. It really fearlessly looks at like the depths of human suffering. I’m like halfway through MOI (first read through) and it’s so light by comparison. There’s swashbuckling adventure and fun and epic god stuff etc. DG was so well done but I get why someone would have a hard time with it. Reading it is a traumatic experience.
The scope and size is really something that attracted me to this series, I was looking for a good challenge, recent fantasy efforts I've read were just 'okay' I wanted something truly epic and different. A large part of the enjoyment for me is slowly figuring out the larger picture and many story threads that run through the books. Maybe I'm rare as a reader but I can perfectly enjoy a book and allow myself to be confused and not entirely know what is going on. Erikson has proven to me by reading through the series that there is always a good payoff at the end that makes it worth sticking around. I also very much embraced this series for how different it is from most other fantasy series. The world is incredibly diverse and interested (no surprise since the man is an archeologist and anthropologist by trade originally so he knows how cultures work) I really enjoy long complicated series to really sink my teeth into as well. I just love becoming completely absorbed in a series and I got all that and more in these books. It is a tough read for sure and I would echo your sentiment about recommending it not to just anyone but to me it is one of the best series ever written in fantasy. I've never understood how incredibly passionate Lotr people were for that series and how religiously they love it, it just never clicked for me. With Malazan though, I have found my equivalent to that feeling. This is a series that I will keep rereading for the rest of my life (not even to say that all the books are done there are still that I haven't read in this world).
I don't see the series as one continuous story, but as a collection of stories with a loosely connected theme and also a work on philosophy. Then it is an easy read.
When SE was asked why so many gruesome rapes? He said he wrote it for those who experienced it, since those haven't gone through won't be able to understand how horrific it is.
Actually malazan does handle those sensitive issue pretty well, the series focuses on the psyche of victims very well and the instances of crimes also seem natural.
I can’t recall which book went this far into the lore, but when I started reading a first hand account about events happening 150,000 years prior to the first book, my jaw quite literally dropped. No series fleshes out a world as completely as the Malazan series. Characters vary from soldier grunts to inter-dimensional immortals to four armed warriors to long dead spirits to literal gods. The sheer scope of this read surpasses the limits of what even the most fervent lore-masters can take in and recall. Such a rewarding experience.
I have enjoyed Malazan because of its huge interesting world, mysterious plot, and just the general revelations of the world and story. The writing style DOES seem spartan at times, but I believe it benefits the story given how character personalities, and relationships get to take center stage. I just see it is efficient writing, like Daniel said in another video it's "lean" and whether someone wants that makes all the difference. I would encourage people to read these books because I think the world is built more comprehensively than any other. The story is a great mystery too, with interesting and enjoyable characters supporting its turns. But it also forces the reader to confront challenging moral realities yet (the majority of the time) without cheap patronizing tropes. To me it is a High-Mystery series in a fantasy world, a fucking great one.
Why does Malazan always get called out as the series that's so _big_ and difficult to get into? What about WoT which is not only 4 books longer (and containing at least 4 books worth of extra padding/superfluous fluff) but also has more _named_ minor characters to keep track of? I personally found MBotF a much more engaging and enjoyable read than WoT.
I felt like Wheel of Time would actually explain things. A lot of the cast is fairly ignorant and we learn as they do. In Malazan it's taken for granted that people know about these High Houses, magical card decks, Ascendants, gods, Warrens, dozen races. It feels like you have to learn by observing. Like learning a language by being thrown into a culture with zero context, knowledge, or help vs having a dictionary and some time with a tutor before entering the new culture. It's less about complexity and more about how information is communicated.
So many different factors play into this. One, it’s much denser and there is a real lack of exposition. Two, there is no real main character or even group of main characters. And finally, having more names characters doesn’t mean all that much. Malazan has more characters who actively participate in the plots on a recurring level
Duiker's chapters were exceptional. Coltaine was one of the most intelligent and compelling characters I have read in a while. I had chills reading his final chapter. Hell, I was welling up at Coltaine's end.
Deadhouse Gates was the first book that ever made my cry in public. It is the book that I have some of the most emotional memories for. In terms of characters. Try and think of the setting as the main character. Personally I grew up reading the Discworld novels, so the idea that people would complain that different books have different characters in them rather confuses me. Terry Pratchet would give you a different set of characters in a book, then you would not return to them for several books. Not a problem, they are all Discworld. Same here. it is all the same amazing expanding world, and the emotive characters which you get to grips with so fast because they feel real. You don't have to spend ages getting to know them and being persuaded as to who they are. You just believe them so dam fast. More than most books, I don't even need to hear their name said to know which one is talking. I think another thing to take into account, is that Erikson learnt to write from Short Stories. I'm a big fan of Fantasy and Sci-fi short stories, and when you treat the books as a colelction of short stories all in the same setting, then perhaps you might view it differently. Espeically for those people who dont like how little is explained.
I honestly find Erikson to be by far one of the best writers I've ever read. There were several moments throughout my journey of reading the books, where I would literally just stop after a paragraph and cry at the sheer beauty and brilliance of how it was written. Just so god damn good! Sure, jumping into this book, and a few others in the series will at first be very disorienting - but eventually everything will click, and the *mind blown* effect will have a much harder punch. I personally absolutely love the pacing and structuring of the story, and it's hard for me to imagine it being much different.
You know, the sparse, minimalistic writing style really worked for Black Company because it felt like reading the actual annals of the Company, with a smaller scope, cast of characters, and setting. With a bigger series like WoT, even though Jordan's writing style could be a bit florid and over descriptive, it really painted pictures inside of my mind, and I could tell wether someone was Domani, Taraboner, Carheinen, or Aiel, just from their descriptions and manners. Malazan... While I did finish it, and there are bits that resonated and stick with me, overall, I found to be frustrating, because sometimes I would have to re-read paragraphs and pages over again to get what happened, because the information was so densely packed in, with not a word wasted. There was no braid tugging, sniffing or smoothing to gloss over in Malazan. I had to read every single word a few times. Worth it, but man, effort required.
I love the Malazan books, they do get much better as they go on and plot lines come together fantastically. Toblakia from the Deadhouse gates gets some serious development in book 4, and the tone changes a fair bit. As the books come on you will also get a deeper understanding of Shadowthrone and Cottilion as well and their motivations.
Towards the end of this book, like others have said, was emotionally exhausting. I was panting during a certain "battle" and once it was done, I sat motionless for a good 20 mins, trying to process the magnitude of what I had just read. This part, among one of the most heart wrenching parts in MoI, is one of the things that makes Erickson an epic writer. To draw out a reader's emotion is the true goal of a writer, and this man does it brilliantly and often. I've read the series twice now (along with I.C.E's books) and will end up reading it again in the future. In my opinion, there will never be another series like this. There are other epics, but none match the scale and immensity of this series.
@Gene Litvinov I know this is a year late but: WILL YOU SHUT UP YOU ABSOLUTE PILLOCK! This is at least the 6th post where you commented snide, condescending remarks to people. I wouldn't mind if it was only yourself that you were making seem like an elitist gatekeeping wanker-snob. But you're sullying the reputation of a series I, and many other reasonable people, feel deeply passionate about. You make me ashamed of being part of the same community as you. You are the worst of what one can expect from an internet fanbase, a repugnant creature I only wish I could call a troll - but you lack any semblance of the self-awareness and (albeit low-brow) humour usually characteristic of said web-fauna. No, you sir are quite simply an arse, a disgraceful creature to whom I shall now say good day...
Yeah I agree with your points. I love Malazan so far. Although I’m halfway through House of Chains and haven’t touched it in a long time, genuinely scared to go back in and not have a clue what the fuck is going on.
I just read this book last year. It was one of the most jaw dropping and beautifully written books I have ever read. I truly believe it's a masterpiece.
I just finished gardens of the moon and jumped immediately into DHG. I wanted to continue with the world., but have recently found myself going...I want to read something else. And that’s always a sign to me that I need to pause or move on. I love the world that’s been created but everything feels like I’m staring at a world, that is so vast, through thick fog.
Way late to ur posts but I have a tip for you- Steven Erikson was educated as an anthropologist and archaeologists so when he writes he’s coming at it as a big picture world builder where the actions of his characters have impacts hundreds and thousands of years later to entire civilizations at times. This gives his characters weight in a way very few series can have. You have to look at the characters and their actions and watch it play out on the global scale. Again I like your work! Keep doing you.
MBOTF is probably my favourite fantasy series, but I understand it's not for everyone. Yes, Deadhouse Gates did take a giant leap to the left but as a stand-alone book, it's one of my personal favourites in the series. The chain of dogs story arc is just awesome. For the series overall, if you're not going to read all 10 books of the main series, I suggest either stopping after book 3, or after book 8. They're reasonable places to end if you're not going the whole way.
I agree with you on this. I am at Midnight Tides - what is that book 4 or book 5? Whatever. Finding it so hard to move on to the next book. I think my biggest issue is the constant introduction of new characters that you have to follow. But OMG, do I want to finish this? I really love what I have read so far. I just don't find the energy to go and get the next book.
Midnight Tides is a great read, maybe my favourite of the series? All the different storylines being included does make sense once you start to realize what is being done with them. The way they are interwoven is honestly impressive as hell and pays off in spades, at least in my mind.
Not sure if you'll see this, but did you ever finish the series? I don't see any other reviews on the channel! If not, you nailed how hard it is to start Malazan, but I would argue that Gardens is the hardest book in the series. I read this book second and over time it has become one of my favorite standalone books of all time. This series just gets so much bigger and better written as Erickson keeps going!
When you reviewed The First Law, you understood clearly the authors intentions, and so you could appreciate them. Malazan more so, but only if you’re willing to go all in... Stay the course. Please. I’ve read the original ten books and I’m begging you, stay the course. What so many readers fail to realize is that SE premeditates every single story line, every historical reference, every poem, every piece of dialogue, every single word put to the page: it’s all written with relentless purpose. The first book is tough, the second heart breaking, the third gut wrenching, the fourth confrontational, the fifth tragic, the sixth profound, the seventh both joyous and painful, the eighth soul crushing and the ninth and tenth books that make up the final tale... I don’t have the words, laughing, crying, jumping out of my chair whooping like a deranged lunatic... “I stand slack jawed in awe of the Malazan Book Of The Fallen...” Stay the course.
@Gene Litvinov I know this is a year late but: WILL YOU SHUT UP YOU ABSOLUTE PILLOCK! This is at least the 6th post where you commented snide, condescending remarks to people. I wouldn't mind if it was only yourself that you were making seem like an elitist gatekeeping wanker-snob. But you're sullying the reputation of a series I, and many other reasonable people, feel deeply passionate about. You make me ashamed of being part of the same community as you. You are the worst of what one can expect from an internet fanbase, a repugnant creature I only wish I could call a troll - but you lack any semblance of the self-awareness and (albeit low-brow) humour usually characteristic of said web-fauna. No, you sir are quite simply an arse, a disgraceful creature to whom I shall now say good day...
The scope kept me going in a weird way. Like, I loved the idea of switchibg back and forth between settings and large casts of characters fir the first few books. And the forth and fifth books get clearer, in my opinion, but also more self aware, and you start ti see hints of SE's brimming postmodernism in those two, which totally intrigued me enough to keep going.
I've read this and Gardens and even tho I like the series I agree it's dense and a little slow to recommend to almost anyone. Having said that, I'll continue forward because I think the reading experience (slugging through and even suffering along the way) is kind of an extension of the tone of the series.
I have the first book fallen behind my bed somewhere, but this review makes me curious actually, so I'm going to find it and read it lol. Surely this guy has an editor...
Dude. That much moving in such a short time? I'm impressed that you're even verbal at this point :-) I wish you the very best in your new digs and you new job, and really looking forward to seeing good things happen for you! I haven't explored the world of Malazan yet. But, I was startled when you said that you might not recommend this series for everyone due to how huge and complex it is. Like, really??? When we both know how much we love WOT and other epic series, for you to find this somewhat... daunting?... really illustrates the actual scope of this work. I might not be up for it! LOL
I have read the series (Ericsons & Esslemonts) 4 times now. What brings me back over and over is that the story does a great job of immerisng me in what ever misadventure is going on at the time. I get the feel of what it would be to to be in the ranks of the Malazan Marines. I feel the anguish and sorrow as Coltaine marches towards safety. One must read the Dramatis Persona at the start of each book to place where each character belongs. I get that it can be hard getting started in this world. once hooked in no other authors, in my humble opinion have built a world and pantheon to match that of the world of Malaz. (Edited for gross spelling error)
Deadhouse Gates is definitely one of my favorite fantasy books. Dense as it is, the Chain of Dogs storyline is so triumphant and tragic. I'm looking forward to my next reread.
I found that I also felt lost until halfway thru House of Chains. I agree with a comment below that by reading this book 3rd it becomes extra jarring having all these new characters to follow. I highly suggest sticking with them since some of the best characters have yet to arrive and after book 4 you have enough understanding of the world so that you no longer feel lost.
The title of the video should be reviewing the first thres installments of the series, because you honestly didn't cover Deadhouse Gates much in the video. I just finished Deadhouse Gates and I agree that the Malazan series doesn't hold your hand, but that's alright. This book sent me on several emotional rollercoasters, the world building was excellent, and I'm looking forward to starting Memories of Ice.
I think the turn to seven cities is probably less jarring reading it as book 2, if only because fiddler and co are present but kind of background characters in the first and picking up their stories straight away and allowing them to step to the forefront feels very organic. It probably connects the first and second books in a more persuasive way than if you read book 3 in between in which case I imagine myself being underwhelmed by seeing them again. Whereas going from DG to MOI, Rake and Kruppe are so well drawn and vivid in book 1 that seeing them again feels like coming home sort of. Fiddler, Kalam and apsalar I think suffer from putting book 3 before 2 and rake and kruppe in particular don’t suffer from having book 2 before book 3.
Also MOI is such a page turner. DG is easier I think than GOTM, but all the new characters make it harder than MOI. I feel like there’s a pattern of deescalating difficulty that’s kind of interrupted by going 1-3-2.
I started Malazan when the second book came out and tried to read it. Couldn’t get into it. Tried again ages later and more of the same. Someone gave it to me (so I have 2 copies) and swore it got better. I’ve been tossing around the idea of it now that I know quite a few folks do see quality there. I think I’ll back burner it for a re-read/listen of WoT for now though. Finishing up re-read of Moontide Quartet ATM.
I had the same experience. I’m on my 3rd attempt and am 80 pages from the end and don’t care at all about what’s happening. But I loved Gardens of the Moon. I just can’t finish this damn book.
@@noodlemansI kept asking myself "why am I still reading this?" I also didn't care about anything or any of the flat characters so I quit near the end. It takes a lot for me to quit a series (and I had already bought the next 2 books) I was just hoping all the cardboard characters would die so maybe he would introduce some better ones.
When I read this series I had to take it in quite a few steps because of how big a task it was to read through it. There are some points that I dislike about it, especially the sexual violence (that you mention) that just keeps on going and is, no matter how horrific, quite normalized by the end as the go to way of punishing female characters. With that said, the scope of the series is aweinspiring, both when it comes to its history, size, warrens (/planes) and multitude of cultures. Throughout the series there is this feeling of change, that nothing lasts forever and now matter how strong you are, nothing you do will last. So I find it quite fitting with this multitude of characters, all being dragged around like leaves in a tempest. And in the centre of it are the great minds that put things in motion, that sometimes have planned events for millennia. Since you barely get to follow these "main" characters and don't know what they are thinking, you as a reader are as much dragged around as the other characters themselves. One thing that really stands out to me when it came to reading this series, I have never in my life had so many times I just saved quotes from the books because of the sheer beauty and poetry of the text. Even though most of the books start quite low (I must admit that there was some time ago that I read them now so I might be wrong) but they are just building to crescendos that last hundreds of pages. Last point: the introduction of Draconus... I have never read a character introduction as epic as that one. And this from a series that has characters such as Anomander Rake and Karsa Orlong. Okay... real last point... SPOILER ALERT Dramatis Personae (Toll the Hounds) Kruppe, a round little man Kallor, a challenger (Dust of Dreams) Chancellor Bugg Ceda Bugg Treasurer Bugg I like the humour of this dark, cruel world Thank you for reading.
So you're saying you don't like that author kind of abandoned previous characters and plots just to introduce whole bunch of new staff, well..... Just wait till Midnight Tides. I almost gave this shite up there, but actually somehow made it to the end and oh my god was it worth it!
Book 5 actually introduces a completely new set of characters again. He really likes doing that^^ I think the complexity definitely makes it worth reading this series. I've come upon no other series so far that's as epic and ambitious. However it can also be exhausting at times, that's true. Yes to the overexcessive use of rape to show how dark a fantasy world is! It really gets annoying when almost every author writing dark fantasy does that, there are other ways, like you said. To be honest I didn't really notice it in Malazan that much, though. I liked that Erikson chose to write societies that do not view women as inferior to men (many newer fantasy series that I've read still use medieval gender roles). He doesn't always succeed 100%, but I think he still does a pretty good job at it.
I found Deadhouse Gates interesting but too gruesome to read again. I liked Gardens of the moon on the second read. The first time I read it I was totally confused. I quit the series part way through Memories of Ice. I just couldn’t get into the story. I’m not sure if I will pick it up again. Thanks for the review.
Dont be afraid to use the wiki if you forget who a character is or want some more background on an event referenced in the book. It does a good job of separating out spoilers.
I think I like them maybe a little more than you do based on our Goodreads ratings, but I would absolutely agree that even as an avid fantasy reader it's incredibly taxing and difficult to follow these books. I've read the first three (with Memories of Ice third) and they've all been worth it but I've been putting the fourth off for years. I took NOTES on the third one to try to make the next one easier. I also have to recommend these with a caveat every time, so I've stopped haha. AGREE on fantasy authors overusing sexual assault to make their fantasy worlds seem darker. Thank you for mentioning that. It was also something I noticed in particular about Deadhouse Gates.
I am reading because I'm interested in the scope and I like the storytelling too, where it's a purposefully vague mystery box with multiple POVs. I like the complexity.
I think you will appreciate this book a lot more the second time around. Coltaine and The Chain of Dogs is some of my favourite fantasy ever read, but it was the second time through that I realized how amazing it truly was.
Get through book 6 before you decide to quit.. that was the one that hooked me the rest of the way.. and if you make it all the way through, the pay off is pretty damn great. They also do a lot of really nice filler novels for ancillary characters you get introduced to but their story only glances through the main books of the series. Thanks for your channel too. It's been great in helping me expand my worlds!
I have read it and had to take a 6 month break at the 7th book. I stayed with it largely cause I tend to bond deeper with characters of bigger series due to time "spent" with them.
I only just finished MOI and I can see how DG would've been more difficult to get into had I read MOI second. I think that, at least thus far, the official reading order is the best.
The thing is, I would like to read the series but after reading quite some negative comments about it online, I fear that it might not be worth the time/effort?...
@@BooksRebound English is not my native language. I regularly read english but would you recommend to read malazan in english or the translation of it in my native language?
It takes A LOT of effort and you need to be willing to put that in and not begrudge it. With that caveat, it is the most worthwhile fantasy series to read out there, to me at least. The more you put into Malazan the more you get out of it, which is a sign of truly great fiction, something that's not that common in fantasy.
When I read the series, I was in a 3 weeks vacation so it really helped me if I need time to pause. These kind of epic series doesn't need to be read in one sitting
Daniel, have you heard of / read The King Henry Tapes? I read them via Amazon unlimited, and find they have become my favorite series. It is a self-published author, so rather unknown, and no audiobook version, but I swear they are worth it! Highly recommended to any comment readers, and I think Daniel would enjoy them. (They are not about King Henry of history, but about a character whose name is King Henry.)
I've read all of book of the fallen, the 6 Esselmont ones within that, and the 3 dancer et Al prequels, and I still think that this is my favourite book, well the chain of dogs portion at least. Without any spoilers it's something of an emotional roller-coaster.
I Honestly think the complexity is a little exaggerated.I was in the same position as you before i read the books . I cant recommend the books highly enough ,if you find yourself struggling, i would recommend you read a chapter and then a summary on tor.com .Along with a new reader's(amanda) opinion .It feels like you're reading along with. someone
Also I would add that it is not nessacairy to understand everything all the time. I think there are enough interesting parts in this book that are easy to get to. So you can just read along and if you don't understand something completely just say "Okay" and read on. I am still on my first read through but I can already see why people say it's worth to read it again and I plan on doing that eventually but for now it's still great fun without putting in too much effort
I'm relatively new to fantasy, I have to admit to liking a good long series. Although I definitely agree that this series is complex, I have to disagree that it's not possible to enjoy when you lose track of things. I loved the writing style enough that going over the book again won't seem like a chore and I feel like I will be rewarded for doing so.
Good book. It made up for it's drawn out beginning somewhat by the ending. I agree with Daniel that the author could definitely been a little clearer with the character conversation/thought exposition at times. I also won't be reading these back to back but will continue onward for a book or two alternating with other series. Having the old kindle didn't tell me it was 1000 pages as it uses % so I thought I was just reading slow at first. haha.
I can definetely see your point about the hard setting shift being jarring, but I think you exaggerated the problem on yourself by reading memories of ice first. Myself and most others I spoke to who read in order of publication found the shift jarring but had pretty much gotten past it by around a fith in, but I can imagine reading MoI just after GotM would make you get much more attached to genebackis and its characters before you get used to the setting shifts between books. It also means its going to be a long while before you return to genebackis because Toll the Hounds is a long way off chief
Personally, I want to get into this series. But I will put the first book down for a few weeks, and when I pick it back up, I’ve forgotten what’s happened and who is who.
I am personally not a fan of book series that in order to get everything at once you’re gonna have to read multiple books on and off. Game of Thrones did that But yeah you’re definitely right on how this story absorbs your time I do love it though that you know this book mythos was already written in his head start to finish
Definitely agree with folks who said this one should have been read second. I think it makes it much more palatable overall. Think a 2 out of 10 is pretty harsh. I really enjoyed this book and for someone who really seems to enjoy the series as a whole I find it hard to believe you can honestly give this a rating so far below even a 5. Like I would love even a little more specifics about how this come in so low. There are a lot of fun characters and battles that seem to at least warrant something like a 4. But hey that's just my take.
"one of the most complex fantasy books I've every read" oh boy... it gets so much worse. But all those new characters, just get more and more interesting. I'm reading Reaper's Gale right now, and boy oy boy, the absolute ludicrous nature of come of the conversations. Hellian, Stormy, Masan Gilani, Karsa Orlong,Ublala Pung, Tehol Beddict, Bugg, Koryk, and Smiles. Too many to name over the series. I eagerly await your next review. I think i read once that Stephen Erickson intentionally made the first book complicated to weed out those not committed to a huge epic series. I"m not sure I've read anything as complicated of Malazan. And that includes WoT, GOT, and Stormlight (Cosmere). And Yes, it can only be recommended to hardcore fantasy, and that will be a limited audience. PS. I took a break between the last too book.... and forgot half the characters. Something to stay at
Joining Mike's readalong and I enjoyed this book a lot, it took a while to get into, but I really enjoyed the characters abd the plot once I got into it
Scratching the surface. Book 3 of the main series. Once you start reading the Esselmont books as well it gets interesting. So much character and world development. It's a world builders wet dream.
I'm a novice fantasy reader and this series is my first dive into fantasy literature. I absolutelly adore the main 10 books. But i have to say that a reread is necessary. Right now i'm on the second book by the cowriter Ian C Esselmont and i love it
I agree with you. While I like the world and story, the books are a hard read. You need to be in the right frame of mind to read. The trouble with that is once you finish one, you don’t want to read another straight away. Then by the time you are ready again you have forgotten the plot. If the writing style was more like Brandon Sanderson, I believe these books would be in the public consciousness at the same level as a Song of Ice and Fire. Very good, but hard to digest, like a large steak.
I listened to Gardens of the Mon via audiobook about a month ago and loved it. Way more characters than merely Rake stood out to me as well. I went into it knowing that it is dense, but I would just lay back and experience it, not worrying about keeping everything at the forefront of my mind. Deadhouse Gates, however, I started a week ago and have taken off a couple days of listening because I truly feel like I have no idea what I'm listening to. I had always heard that Gardens of the Moon was more difficult to digest, since its one's first experience with Malazan, but that foot in the door isn't helping me with Deadhouse Gates. Thoughts?
Man this book made me so angry and emotional and when xxxxxxx was betrayed I threw my book across the room ... and by far this and Memories of Ice are my favourite books in Malazan .
Dude... Malazan is just fucking insane. There's some of the most intense crazy mind blowing shit that happens in those books... Things I could never dream up, in a million years. Absolutely defines the word EPIC. But there's shit in there that feels like a bad acid trip too. No matter how many times I read over it, there's just things I do not get. Just read the beginning of Dust of Dreams as an example. Overall I loved it, even with 10 to 15% not making any sense to me. The great parts are just that great.
I like malazan. only gonna consume through audible or scribd tho, really dont have the time or patience to read. Anyway, just like with the brick incident, this has its moments that felt like getting tazered in order to check if I was still paying attention. Like the part about that woman who tried to rescue some drowning people by getting on a freakin horse, and gallopping off the boat, down the ocean. sploosh. LOL.
Just finished it and man I have conflicting feelings... Now mind you my translated German version is split into two books and comes out at over 1100 pages in total so maybe that played into it. Usually I don`t mind a huge book and the story told was good but man it was jarring to read and tbh it felt way too long. Huge chunks of the book are just descriptions of walking through the desert and being thirsty and hungry. It started out with Felisin where every chapter concerning her was just a walk from one oasis to the next and her feeling like she was about to die every time but then later also Kalams, Fiddlers and even the chain of dogs chapters were only about walking and having little food and water. That was so frustrating. And then after 1100 pages I`m left feeling like this is just a book for setting up what is to come, much more so than Gardens of the Moon. You really need over 1k pages of which 30 percent is runing through the desert to set up something? idk man I have the next book so I will continue reading but tbh this book would have usually turned me off from the series. No matter the scale fantasy should not feel frustrating and unrewarding to read
I say this with the caveat that I'm only on book 3 (likely to finish tonight) (reading in published order) but Erikson seems to struggle in creating indellible connections between characters sometimes or even properly defining characters. For instance, the reintroduction of the sailors in deadhouse had me scrambling to figure out who was who and where they ended up and I'm struggling to remember their final fate in the book as a whole. That said, I think Felisin and Heboric 's relationship was mapped out beautifully and so far the relationship I'm most interested in seeing develop. I found Duiker to be the single most interesting character in the books this far, moreso than Annomander Rake, even. Frankly, Rake doesn't excite or intrigue me at all. I've read enough about men with God like strength with shadowy lasts; give me the weathered and exhausted old man. Where Erikson shines is in his setpieces. How he wrote the conclusion of Coltaines story thread in this book will stay with me forever and what happens after that left me shaken. I was listening to the audiobook in the car with my friend and we sat in silence for a good 30 minutes to an hour just reflecting on the writing there.
I think you've just convinced me to just drop this series. I'm halfway through "Garden of the Moon" and I'm barely holding on to my sanity. I feel almost nothing for the characters(of which they're too many), The prose isn't working for me and Erikson seems to be allergic to exposition cuz I've got absolutely no idea what the fuck is going on most of the time. While i do enjoy the cool magic battles, stopping to do "research" every 3 pages is putting a serious damper on my overall enjoyment. To be fair, I was warned that gardens of the moon was difficult to read but I was assured that deadhouse gates was where the series starts to get really good. But from you're review, it seems like it doesn't change much. "The fanbase seems to be very understanding" Are you kidding me?, Just about every malazan fan I've encountered are horrible snobs who act like completing the series makes you some kind of genius. Saying that malazan isn't the best fantasy series ever immediately earns you tons of insults about you're intellect and taste. In fact, a large part of why i wanted to read this series is because i was curious as to why people act all snobbish after reading it.But maybe you've been lucky enough to meet nicer fans than I have. Ultimately I've decided that whatever it is that makes people like malazan, it's simply not for me.
@Gene Litvinov I know this is a year late but: WILL YOU SHUT UP YOU ABSOLUTE PILLOCK! This is at least the 6th post where you commented snide, condescending remarks to people. I wouldn't mind if it was only yourself that you were making seem like an elitist gatekeeping wanker-snob. But you're sullying the reputation of a series I, and many other reasonable people, feel deeply passionate about. You make me ashamed of being part of the same community as you. You are the worst of what one can expect from an internet fanbase, a repugnant creature I only wish I could call a troll - but you lack any semblance of the self-awareness and (albeit low-brow) humour usually characteristic of said web-fauna. No, you sir are quite simply an arse, a disgraceful creature to whom I shall now say good day... To Yarvi I can only apologise on his behalf. it's okay if you don't like it, to each his own...
@Gene Litvinov Except I've read it multiple times, obviously understood it waaaaay better than you (or you would never speak like that to anybody of it) and have had in depth, one on one discussions with the author. And I'm telling you, you're a dick....
I‘m on the last 200 pages of Deadhouse Gates and am happy it‘s considered the „worst“ book in the seres by many. Though the characters are all well written, I like the original set a lot more. Excited to continue straight away 😉
I like dark and real, and this series delivers on a scale others don't come close to, they come across as PG-12A where this is 18. If you are good at immersing yourself and purely focusing on a single topic then this will pull you in and you wont want to come up for air. It was easy for me to keep track of characters, groups and themes. Its just a case of storing them because everyone gets brought to a close. It jumps around different times and places but it is all relevant. With the 20 something books that are out now I would say start at the beginning. you can find the list online. The Kark trilogy is awesome although we are waiting on shadow. the world building is insanely rich, diverse cultures and deep characters which you will become very attached to. There are plenty of different personalities and you will be disgusted at the actions they take and the crimes they commit against others, then there are those who are true and you will fall in love with and hold close. This series will make you cry, laugh and a bit disgusted at things that happen. There are no true saints or sinners, just people trying to survive by the environment that created them. To my Beak...RIP....it still gets me emotional lol.
Criticism of the writing style is gross to me, and I don’t say that lightly. Steven Erickson doesn’t water everything down to make his writing boring but easy for people and yet he doesn’t reach the wonderful complexity of few in fantasy such as Tolkien (which is fine)
Actually gardens and memories felt more stand alone and dead house thru the rest of the series feels like they go together more and midnight tides should be read before house i think
how tired on a scale of 1-10 do I seem?
8
8. Maybe an 8.5.
Get some rest. You’ll be no good for anything if you wear yourself out and get sick! (Geez I sound like a mother hen)
A solid 8.
You look great Daniel. Don't let em bring you down baby
Like a 6.
"Deadhouse gate introduces completely new characters and is insane to keep track of what is going on."
Haha, wait for Midnight Tides.
It's one of my favs!
Midnight is my favorite so far
Greetings Lord in Chains, I bring greetings from the bridgeburners
Stick with it, it all comes together by the last couple of books
@Blah Anger My biggest issue with the Kharkanas trilogy was how it seemed like no one ever said anything straight. They are one and all just a tad too poetic.
I personally think it was a mistake to read this book third instead of second, because by reading Memories of Ice second you stayed with much the same group of characters for a longer amount of time. The problem with this is it then makes the switch in cast of Deadhouse Gates all the more jarring, and it breaks with some of the meta-symmetry of how the series is structured. However as the break has already been made, don't be to surprised by the next book starting with unfamiliar characters again.
Has he said that he read Memories of Ice second? I didn't know there was a block of fans who seriously would consider reading the series this way. Just seems like a recipe for problems.
He read Memories of Ice second because Anomander Rake was in his fantasy character tournament and since Anomader Rake wasn't in Deadhouse Gates, Daniel skipped it so he could have more information for the tournament.
Hopefully the tournament was worth it. I wouldn't want to gamble on my experience with a good book series.
What’s this tournament you guys are talking about?
ua-cam.com/play/PLGye3IeTsQJkzJnn04TY8_b4kaFbcQBql.html
"Coltaine rattles slow
across the burning land.
The wind howls through the bones
of his hate-ridden command.
Coltaine leads a chain of dogs
ever snapping at his hand.
Coltaine's fist bleeds the journey home
along rivers of red-soaked sand.
His train howls through his bones
in spiteful reprimand.
Coltaine leads a chain of dogs
ever snapping at his hand."
Is Malazan tricky to get into, hell yes. Does Malazan overload the reader with characters and world building on scale almost unprecedented, damn straight. Is Malazan (the original ten volumes by Erikson) the most rewarding the fantasy series I've read in thirty years?
Yes. Without a doubt, yes.
@Gene Litvinov Dude relax, you're really going to resort to insults because of your opinion of a book series? Grow up...
The only series I've read I have similar regard for is Robin hobb's realm of the elderlings, although for completely different reasons. The emotional impact of those books is absolutely unparalleled.
@Gene Litvinov this is why I'll probably never read malazan. Every fan I've met act like they've got 5000 IQ and they're part of some super elite club just cuz they managed to finish reading the series. Grow up man
Also on the very low chance that you're joking: It's not funny.
@Gene Litvinov Ok Boomer.
How much of it is sunk cost fallacy?
It's okay to say, to my mind, that you are not the biggest fan of Erikson's writing style. That's fine, because that's personal, and Erikson's style is extremely dense. But the truth is that the skill with which the prose is constructed is immaculate. Erikson is a university trained short-story writer, and it shows in how he writes. It's just, this type of dense, multi-layered prose is not that common in fantasy. As a reader of fantasy you are thrust into an unfamiliar world so simple, easily followed prose can be used to balance that out. Erikson doesn't do that, and that makes it difficult to approach, but there is a reason why most 'literary' fiction is also written in a dense style: it holds much more depth.
Thank you for this comment. I have found the Malazan series to be most most rewarding fantasy endeavor, and second place isn't remotely close. No author that is writing poorly can possible pull the emotional responses from me like these books did.
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with Erikson's style. I like the poetic quality and the density. And I have no problem with processing complexity. Keeps the brain healthy and lithe.
THOUGHTS:
Although this is not the best book in the series, This is a book I will never EVER forget.
At the end of my read I was emotionally wiped out and physically exhaust.
If I have learned one thing from this series it is compassion.
........
I feel like this format of review just does not work for the malazan books, as it needs to be read (Twice!) to be understood.
I have watched people try and digest this series before and I would love to tell you: Carry on with the series this guy knows what he is doing and it will all be worth it in the end! I mean it's the biggest fantasy world ever created how could you not like that?
But, Instead I will say if this book is a 2 /5 leave the series and come back to it latter when you find yourself bored of fantasy and instead of coming to this series as : Ahh, I want to read this series but its soo damn complex!!
Come back at a time when you can say: I'm So f# ING tired of fantasy and I want a challenge, I want a series where I will not be told the answer, I need to figure out the answer, F#°K it I want something complex!!!
I'm rambling I know but whatever.
What I am saying also is if you are critizizing the books because they jump around too much then you should not continue in that mind state, This never stops all the way up to book 10. Also, when you say they are not written very well I understand what you are saying but the Malazan books are not made to be easy reads, this is my opinion but on reading the series the books are made harder to understand purposefully one example is how characters names change or how you are introtuced to characters even towards the end of the books.
You don't follow one character you follow 300, There are no main characters In this series and that is something to remember, this is not a 10 book series about Paran or some other hero this just adds to the confusion. This is not an Easy read.
One comment you made I have to disagree with a little (No Hate) is the lack of Stand out characters. I Mean by the end of the chain of dogs I was not saying to my self, well OK. But there were no stand out characters I was crying.
But, then again we are all different and have a plethora of different opinions.
And that it for my first comment but trust me not my first video of yours or the last, keep up the good work.
Lots of love to everyone
John
Dude, you just motivated someone to start malazan
Hey man, great framing of Deadhouse Gates. It takes such a massive toll and you really captured the weight. There's gravity to this story, there's tragedy and i think the experience has value beyond (and no offense to people who want different things) our story preferences being met.
Put another way, if a story veers sharply from an efficient "hero's journey" narrative it could go either way. Depends if the product of that new direction is coincidentally what you want. That's putting aside the outcome of this new direction failing. I think Deadhouse Gates and Malazan as a whole depart from many conventions and that's a part of the challenge.
@@FromKhaos26 jesus man spoiler alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hate vague stories
DG is an exquisitely unpleasant read. It really fearlessly looks at like the depths of human suffering. I’m like halfway through MOI (first read through) and it’s so light by comparison. There’s swashbuckling adventure and fun and epic god stuff etc. DG was so well done but I get why someone would have a hard time with it. Reading it is a traumatic experience.
The scope and size is really something that attracted me to this series, I was looking for a good challenge, recent fantasy efforts I've read were just 'okay' I wanted something truly epic and different. A large part of the enjoyment for me is slowly figuring out the larger picture and many story threads that run through the books.
Maybe I'm rare as a reader but I can perfectly enjoy a book and allow myself to be confused and not entirely know what is going on. Erikson has proven to me by reading through the series that there is always a good payoff at the end that makes it worth sticking around.
I also very much embraced this series for how different it is from most other fantasy series. The world is incredibly diverse and interested (no surprise since the man is an archeologist and anthropologist by trade originally so he knows how cultures work) I really enjoy long complicated series to really sink my teeth into as well. I just love becoming completely absorbed in a series and I got all that and more in these books. It is a tough read for sure and I would echo your sentiment about recommending it not to just anyone but to me it is one of the best series ever written in fantasy.
I've never understood how incredibly passionate Lotr people were for that series and how religiously they love it, it just never clicked for me. With Malazan though, I have found my equivalent to that feeling. This is a series that I will keep rereading for the rest of my life (not even to say that all the books are done there are still that I haven't read in this world).
I don't see the series as one continuous story, but as a collection of stories with a loosely connected theme and also a work on philosophy. Then it is an easy read.
When SE was asked why so many gruesome rapes? He said he wrote it for those who experienced it, since those haven't gone through won't be able to understand how horrific it is.
Actually malazan does handle those sensitive issue pretty well, the series focuses on the psyche of victims very well and the instances of crimes also seem natural.
I can’t recall which book went this far into the lore, but when I started reading a first hand account about events happening 150,000 years prior to the first book, my jaw quite literally dropped. No series fleshes out a world as completely as the Malazan series.
Characters vary from soldier grunts to inter-dimensional immortals to four armed warriors to long dead spirits to literal gods.
The sheer scope of this read surpasses the limits of what even the most fervent lore-masters can take in and recall.
Such a rewarding experience.
I have enjoyed Malazan because of its huge interesting world, mysterious plot, and just the general revelations of the world and story. The writing style DOES seem spartan at times, but I believe it benefits the story given how character personalities, and relationships get to take center stage. I just see it is efficient writing, like Daniel said in another video it's "lean" and whether someone wants that makes all the difference.
I would encourage people to read these books because I think the world is built more comprehensively than any other. The story is a great mystery too, with interesting and enjoyable characters supporting its turns. But it also forces the reader to confront challenging moral realities yet (the majority of the time) without cheap patronizing tropes.
To me it is a High-Mystery series in a fantasy world, a fucking great one.
Why does Malazan always get called out as the series that's so _big_ and difficult to get into? What about WoT which is not only 4 books longer (and containing at least 4 books worth of extra padding/superfluous fluff) but also has more _named_ minor characters to keep track of? I personally found MBotF a much more engaging and enjoyable read than WoT.
WoT is more focused and also more tropey, so although it’s longer I think it’s much more accessible
I felt like Wheel of Time would actually explain things. A lot of the cast is fairly ignorant and we learn as they do.
In Malazan it's taken for granted that people know about these High Houses, magical card decks, Ascendants, gods, Warrens, dozen races. It feels like you have to learn by observing.
Like learning a language by being thrown into a culture with zero context, knowledge, or help vs having a dictionary and some time with a tutor before entering the new culture.
It's less about complexity and more about how information is communicated.
So many different factors play into this. One, it’s much denser and there is a real lack of exposition. Two, there is no real main character or even group of main characters. And finally, having more names characters doesn’t mean all that much. Malazan has more characters who actively participate in the plots on a recurring level
Seens like you forgot to talk about the plot on the book. Tired i guess.
Have you done any reviews on Gene Wolfe?
Duiker's chapters were exceptional. Coltaine was one of the most intelligent and compelling characters I have read in a while. I had chills reading his final chapter. Hell, I was welling up at Coltaine's end.
For sure. It surprises me that people say there are no standout characters when you've got Duiker and Coltaine.
Deadhouse Gates was the first book that ever made my cry in public. It is the book that I have some of the most emotional memories for.
In terms of characters. Try and think of the setting as the main character. Personally I grew up reading the Discworld novels, so the idea that people would complain that different books have different characters in them rather confuses me. Terry Pratchet would give you a different set of characters in a book, then you would not return to them for several books. Not a problem, they are all Discworld.
Same here. it is all the same amazing expanding world, and the emotive characters which you get to grips with so fast because they feel real. You don't have to spend ages getting to know them and being persuaded as to who they are. You just believe them so dam fast. More than most books, I don't even need to hear their name said to know which one is talking.
I think another thing to take into account, is that Erikson learnt to write from Short Stories. I'm a big fan of Fantasy and Sci-fi short stories, and when you treat the books as a colelction of short stories all in the same setting, then perhaps you might view it differently. Espeically for those people who dont like how little is explained.
Totally agree. And all the books tie everything together and give them a nice finish. What part did you cry at?
Personally, I appreciated Deadhouse Gates a lot more after reading House of Chains.
I honestly find Erikson to be by far one of the best writers I've ever read. There were several moments throughout my journey of reading the books, where I would literally just stop after a paragraph and cry at the sheer beauty and brilliance of how it was written. Just so god damn good!
Sure, jumping into this book, and a few others in the series will at first be very disorienting - but eventually everything will click, and the *mind blown* effect will have a much harder punch. I personally absolutely love the pacing and structuring of the story, and it's hard for me to imagine it being much different.
You know, the sparse, minimalistic writing style really worked for Black Company because it felt like reading the actual annals of the Company, with a smaller scope, cast of characters, and setting. With a bigger series like WoT, even though Jordan's writing style could be a bit florid and over descriptive, it really painted pictures inside of my mind, and I could tell wether someone was Domani, Taraboner, Carheinen, or Aiel, just from their descriptions and manners.
Malazan... While I did finish it, and there are bits that resonated and stick with me, overall, I found to be frustrating, because sometimes I would have to re-read paragraphs and pages over again to get what happened, because the information was so densely packed in, with not a word wasted. There was no braid tugging, sniffing or smoothing to gloss over in Malazan. I had to read every single word a few times. Worth it, but man, effort required.
I love the Malazan books, they do get much better as they go on and plot lines come together fantastically. Toblakia from the Deadhouse gates gets some serious development in book 4, and the tone changes a fair bit. As the books come on you will also get a deeper understanding of Shadowthrone and Cottilion as well and their motivations.
I cant believe the lies you just told. No one knows their motivations or what they are planning, sometimes I don't think they even know.
Towards the end of this book, like others have said, was emotionally exhausting. I was panting during a certain "battle" and once it was done, I sat motionless for a good 20 mins, trying to process the magnitude of what I had just read. This part, among one of the most heart wrenching parts in MoI, is one of the things that makes Erickson an epic writer. To draw out a reader's emotion is the true goal of a writer, and this man does it brilliantly and often. I've read the series twice now (along with I.C.E's books) and will end up reading it again in the future. In my opinion, there will never be another series like this. There are other epics, but none match the scale and immensity of this series.
@Gene Litvinov I know this is a year late but: WILL YOU SHUT UP YOU ABSOLUTE PILLOCK! This is at least the 6th post where you commented snide, condescending remarks to people. I wouldn't mind if it was only yourself that you were making seem like an elitist gatekeeping wanker-snob. But you're sullying the reputation of a series I, and many other reasonable people, feel deeply passionate about. You make me ashamed of being part of the same community as you. You are the worst of what one can expect from an internet fanbase, a repugnant creature I only wish I could call a troll - but you lack any semblance of the self-awareness and (albeit low-brow) humour usually characteristic of said web-fauna. No, you sir are quite simply an arse, a disgraceful creature to whom I shall now say good day...
@Gene Litvinov you are a poopy head
Yeah I agree with your points. I love Malazan so far. Although I’m halfway through House of Chains and haven’t touched it in a long time, genuinely scared to go back in and not have a clue what the fuck is going on.
there is no shame in pulling up the wiki whilst reading :P
have you ever heard of a book called Hyperion? I just found it and it sounds cool
I read it a long time ago and it was awesome
Read it long ago, its awesome. Actually, you're making me want to do a re-read.
Hyperion is amazing. The way it blends futurism and religion and just a fascinating world is beautiful
Great book man! I read it back when I was in high school in the late 90’s.
I just read this book last year. It was one of the most jaw dropping and beautifully written books I have ever read. I truly believe it's a masterpiece.
I just finished gardens of the moon and jumped immediately into DHG. I wanted to continue with the world., but have recently found myself going...I want to read something else. And that’s always a sign to me that I need to pause or move on. I love the world that’s been created but everything feels like I’m staring at a world, that is so vast, through thick fog.
Way late to ur posts but I have a tip for you- Steven Erikson was educated as an anthropologist and archaeologists so when he writes he’s coming at it as a big picture world builder where the actions of his characters have impacts hundreds and thousands of years later to entire civilizations at times. This gives his characters weight in a way very few series can have. You have to look at the characters and their actions and watch it play out on the global scale. Again I like your work! Keep doing you.
MBOTF is probably my favourite fantasy series, but I understand it's not for everyone. Yes, Deadhouse Gates did take a giant leap to the left but as a stand-alone book, it's one of my personal favourites in the series. The chain of dogs story arc is just awesome.
For the series overall, if you're not going to read all 10 books of the main series, I suggest either stopping after book 3, or after book 8. They're reasonable places to end if you're not going the whole way.
I agree with you on this. I am at Midnight Tides - what is that book 4 or book 5? Whatever. Finding it so hard to move on to the next book. I think my biggest issue is the constant introduction of new characters that you have to follow. But OMG, do I want to finish this? I really love what I have read so far. I just don't find the energy to go and get the next book.
Midnight Tides is a great read, maybe my favourite of the series? All the different storylines being included does make sense once you start to realize what is being done with them. The way they are interwoven is honestly impressive as hell and pays off in spades, at least in my mind.
If it helps, Midnight Tides is the last instance of new book = new continent + new cast in the main series.
About halfway through Gardens of the Moon and really loving it so far. As always keep up the excellent work.
Not sure if you'll see this, but did you ever finish the series? I don't see any other reviews on the channel! If not, you nailed how hard it is to start Malazan, but I would argue that Gardens is the hardest book in the series. I read this book second and over time it has become one of my favorite standalone books of all time. This series just gets so much bigger and better written as Erickson keeps going!
When you reviewed The First Law, you understood clearly the authors intentions, and so you could appreciate them.
Malazan more so, but only if you’re willing to go all in...
Stay the course. Please.
I’ve read the original ten books and I’m begging you, stay the course.
What so many readers fail to realize is that SE premeditates every single story line, every historical reference, every poem, every piece of dialogue, every single word put to the page: it’s all written with relentless purpose.
The first book is tough, the second heart breaking, the third gut wrenching, the fourth confrontational, the fifth tragic, the sixth profound, the seventh both joyous and painful, the eighth soul crushing and the ninth and tenth books that make up the final tale... I don’t have the words, laughing, crying, jumping out of my chair whooping like a deranged lunatic...
“I stand slack jawed in awe of the Malazan Book Of The Fallen...”
Stay the course.
@Gene Litvinov I know this is a year late but: WILL YOU SHUT UP YOU ABSOLUTE PILLOCK! This is at least the 6th post where you commented snide, condescending remarks to people. I wouldn't mind if it was only yourself that you were making seem like an elitist gatekeeping wanker-snob. But you're sullying the reputation of a series I, and many other reasonable people, feel deeply passionate about. You make me ashamed of being part of the same community as you. You are the worst of what one can expect from an internet fanbase, a repugnant creature I only wish I could call a troll - but you lack any semblance of the self-awareness and (albeit low-brow) humour usually characteristic of said web-fauna. No, you sir are quite simply an arse, a disgraceful creature to whom I shall now say good day...
I'm a beginner fantasy reader and i had no problem getting into Malazan. I love it. I'm on Dust of Dreams right now
Have you gotten any of the books outside the main 10 book series?
Deadhouse Gates is my favorite so far. You will be hip deep in corpses when you get into Memories of Ice.
The scope kept me going in a weird way. Like, I loved the idea of switchibg back and forth between settings and large casts of characters fir the first few books. And the forth and fifth books get clearer, in my opinion, but also more self aware, and you start ti see hints of SE's brimming postmodernism in those two, which totally intrigued me enough to keep going.
I've read this and Gardens and even tho I like the series I agree it's dense and a little slow to recommend to almost anyone.
Having said that, I'll continue forward because I think the reading experience (slugging through and even suffering along the way) is kind of an extension of the tone of the series.
I have the first book fallen behind my bed somewhere, but this review makes me curious actually, so I'm going to find it and read it lol. Surely this guy has an editor...
Dude. That much moving in such a short time? I'm impressed that you're even verbal at this point :-) I wish you the very best in your new digs and you new job, and really looking forward to seeing good things happen for you!
I haven't explored the world of Malazan yet. But, I was startled when you said that you might not recommend this series for everyone due to how huge and complex it is. Like, really??? When we both know how much we love WOT and other epic series, for you to find this somewhat... daunting?... really illustrates the actual scope of this work. I might not be up for it! LOL
I have read the series (Ericsons & Esslemonts) 4 times now. What brings me back over and over is that the story does a great job of immerisng me in what ever misadventure is going on at the time. I get the feel of what it would be to to be in the ranks of the Malazan Marines. I feel the anguish and sorrow as Coltaine marches towards safety.
One must read the Dramatis Persona at the start of each book to place where each character belongs. I get that it can be hard getting started in this world. once hooked in no other authors, in my humble opinion have built a world and pantheon to match that of the world of Malaz. (Edited for gross spelling error)
Deadhouse Gates is definitely one of my favorite fantasy books. Dense as it is, the Chain of Dogs storyline is so triumphant and tragic. I'm looking forward to my next reread.
I found that I also felt lost until halfway thru House of Chains. I agree with a comment below that by reading this book 3rd it becomes extra jarring having all these new characters to follow. I highly suggest sticking with them since some of the best characters have yet to arrive and after book 4 you have enough understanding of the world so that you no longer feel lost.
The title of the video should be reviewing the first thres installments of the series, because you honestly didn't cover Deadhouse Gates much in the video.
I just finished Deadhouse Gates and I agree that the Malazan series doesn't hold your hand, but that's alright. This book sent me on several emotional rollercoasters, the world building was excellent, and I'm looking forward to starting Memories of Ice.
You're making want to try to pick this up again. I have a few of the books but I wound up putting them down and never really picking them back up.
I think the turn to seven cities is probably less jarring reading it as book 2, if only because fiddler and co are present but kind of background characters in the first and picking up their stories straight away and allowing them to step to the forefront feels very organic. It probably connects the first and second books in a more persuasive way than if you read book 3 in between in which case I imagine myself being underwhelmed by seeing them again. Whereas going from DG to MOI, Rake and Kruppe are so well drawn and vivid in book 1 that seeing them again feels like coming home sort of. Fiddler, Kalam and apsalar I think suffer from putting book 3 before 2 and rake and kruppe in particular don’t suffer from having book 2 before book 3.
Also MOI is such a page turner. DG is easier I think than GOTM, but all the new characters make it harder than MOI. I feel like there’s a pattern of deescalating difficulty that’s kind of interrupted by going 1-3-2.
I started Malazan when the second book came out and tried to read it. Couldn’t get into it. Tried again ages later and more of the same. Someone gave it to me (so I have 2 copies) and swore it got better. I’ve been tossing around the idea of it now that I know quite a few folks do see quality there. I think I’ll back burner it for a re-read/listen of WoT for now though.
Finishing up re-read of Moontide Quartet ATM.
Yeah it’s pretty dense. But imo if it hasn’t even remotely grabbed you by now, then it’s most likely not for you.
Thanks Yusuf! :-)
I had the same experience. I’m on my 3rd attempt and am 80 pages from the end and don’t care at all about what’s happening. But I loved Gardens of the Moon. I just can’t finish this damn book.
@@noodlemansI kept asking myself "why am I still reading this?" I also didn't care about anything or any of the flat characters so I quit near the end. It takes a lot for me to quit a series (and I had already bought the next 2 books) I was just hoping all the cardboard characters would die so maybe he would introduce some better ones.
When I read this series I had to take it in quite a few steps because of how big a task it was to read through it. There are some points that I dislike about it, especially the sexual violence (that you mention) that just keeps on going and is, no matter how horrific, quite normalized by the end as the go to way of punishing female characters. With that said, the scope of the series is aweinspiring, both when it comes to its history, size, warrens (/planes) and multitude of cultures.
Throughout the series there is this feeling of change, that nothing lasts forever and now matter how strong you are, nothing you do will last. So I find it quite fitting with this multitude of characters, all being dragged around like leaves in a tempest. And in the centre of it are the great minds that put things in motion, that sometimes have planned events for millennia. Since you barely get to follow these "main" characters and don't know what they are thinking, you as a reader are as much dragged around as the other characters themselves.
One thing that really stands out to me when it came to reading this series, I have never in my life had so many times I just saved quotes from the books because of the sheer beauty and poetry of the text.
Even though most of the books start quite low (I must admit that there was some time ago that I read them now so I might be wrong) but they are just building to crescendos that last hundreds of pages.
Last point: the introduction of Draconus... I have never read a character introduction as epic as that one. And this from a series that has characters such as Anomander Rake and Karsa Orlong.
Okay... real last point...
SPOILER ALERT
Dramatis Personae
(Toll the Hounds)
Kruppe, a round little man
Kallor, a challenger
(Dust of Dreams)
Chancellor Bugg
Ceda Bugg
Treasurer Bugg
I like the humour of this dark, cruel world
Thank you for reading.
So you're saying you don't like that author kind of abandoned previous characters and plots just to introduce whole bunch of new staff, well..... Just wait till Midnight Tides. I almost gave this shite up there, but actually somehow made it to the end and oh my god was it worth it!
Book 5 actually introduces a completely new set of characters again. He really likes doing that^^
I think the complexity definitely makes it worth reading this series. I've come upon no other series so far that's as epic and ambitious. However it can also be exhausting at times, that's true.
Yes to the overexcessive use of rape to show how dark a fantasy world is! It really gets annoying when almost every author writing dark fantasy does that, there are other ways, like you said. To be honest I didn't really notice it in Malazan that much, though. I liked that Erikson chose to write societies that do not view women as inferior to men (many newer fantasy series that I've read still use medieval gender roles). He doesn't always succeed 100%, but I think he still does a pretty good job at it.
I found Deadhouse Gates interesting but too gruesome to read again. I liked Gardens of the moon on the second read. The first time I read it I was totally confused. I quit the series part way through Memories of Ice. I just couldn’t get into the story. I’m not sure if I will pick it up again. Thanks for the review.
Dont be afraid to use the wiki if you forget who a character is or want some more background on an event referenced in the book. It does a good job of separating out spoilers.
Read the rest in order. It comes together.
I think I like them maybe a little more than you do based on our Goodreads ratings, but I would absolutely agree that even as an avid fantasy reader it's incredibly taxing and difficult to follow these books. I've read the first three (with Memories of Ice third) and they've all been worth it but I've been putting the fourth off for years. I took NOTES on the third one to try to make the next one easier.
I also have to recommend these with a caveat every time, so I've stopped haha.
AGREE on fantasy authors overusing sexual assault to make their fantasy worlds seem darker. Thank you for mentioning that. It was also something I noticed in particular about Deadhouse Gates.
I am reading because I'm interested in the scope and I like the storytelling too, where it's a purposefully vague mystery box with multiple POVs. I like the complexity.
I think you will appreciate this book a lot more the second time around. Coltaine and The Chain of Dogs is some of my favourite fantasy ever read, but it was the second time through that I realized how amazing it truly was.
Alright you convinced me I'll go back and try it again in 2019. Never got through first one although I saw some promise it didn't hold me at the time.
Get through book 6 before you decide to quit.. that was the one that hooked me the rest of the way.. and if you make it all the way through, the pay off is pretty damn great. They also do a lot of really nice filler novels for ancillary characters you get introduced to but their story only glances through the main books of the series. Thanks for your channel too. It's been great in helping me expand my worlds!
I have read it and had to take a 6 month break at the 7th book. I stayed with it largely cause I tend to bond deeper with characters of bigger series due to time "spent" with them.
I share your sentiments, Hence why with the initial books Its slow going & then there comes a time you cant put the book down
I only just finished MOI and I can see how DG would've been more difficult to get into had I read MOI second. I think that, at least thus far, the official reading order is the best.
The thing is, I would like to read the series but after reading quite some negative comments about it online, I fear that it might not be worth the time/effort?...
@@BooksRebound English is not my native language. I regularly read english but would you recommend to read malazan in english or the translation of it in my native language?
@@BooksRebound All right. Thank you :)
It takes A LOT of effort and you need to be willing to put that in and not begrudge it. With that caveat, it is the most worthwhile fantasy series to read out there, to me at least. The more you put into Malazan the more you get out of it, which is a sign of truly great fiction, something that's not that common in fantasy.
When I read the series, I was in a 3 weeks vacation so it really helped me if I need time to pause. These kind of epic series doesn't need to be read in one sitting
What sci-fi books do you recommend?
Daniel, have you heard of / read The King Henry Tapes? I read them via Amazon unlimited, and find they have become my favorite series. It is a self-published author, so rather unknown, and no audiobook version, but I swear they are worth it! Highly recommended to any comment readers, and I think Daniel would enjoy them. (They are not about King Henry of history, but about a character whose name is King Henry.)
I finally picked up a Gentleman Bastards book, looking forward to seeing how I like them.
WHAT A MESMERIZING INTRO
I've read all of book of the fallen, the 6 Esselmont ones within that, and the 3 dancer et Al prequels, and I still think that this is my favourite book, well the chain of dogs portion at least. Without any spoilers it's something of an emotional roller-coaster.
I've yet to pick up any of the books. I've heard good things and bad, but I'v yet to hear a pro that would make it worth the con of the complexity.
I Honestly think the complexity is a little exaggerated.I was in the same position as you before i read the books . I cant recommend the books highly enough ,if you find yourself struggling, i would recommend you read a chapter and then a summary on tor.com .Along with a new reader's(amanda) opinion .It feels like you're reading along with. someone
@@sabelongubo4571 Thanks, I'll check that out.
Also I would add that it is not nessacairy to understand everything all the time. I think there are enough interesting parts in this book that are easy to get to. So you can just read along and if you don't understand something completely just say "Okay" and read on.
I am still on my first read through but I can already see why people say it's worth to read it again and I plan on doing that eventually but for now it's still great fun without putting in too much effort
I'm relatively new to fantasy, I have to admit to liking a good long series. Although I definitely agree that this series is complex, I have to disagree that it's not possible to enjoy when you lose track of things. I loved the writing style enough that going over the book again won't seem like a chore and I feel like I will be rewarded for doing so.
Good book. It made up for it's drawn out beginning somewhat by the ending. I agree with Daniel that the author could definitely been a little clearer with the character conversation/thought exposition at times. I also won't be reading these back to back but will continue onward for a book or two alternating with other series. Having the old kindle didn't tell me it was 1000 pages as it uses % so I thought I was just reading slow at first. haha.
I can definetely see your point about the hard setting shift being jarring, but I think you exaggerated the problem on yourself by reading memories of ice first. Myself and most others I spoke to who read in order of publication found the shift jarring but had pretty much gotten past it by around a fith in, but I can imagine reading MoI just after GotM would make you get much more attached to genebackis and its characters before you get used to the setting shifts between books. It also means its going to be a long while before you return to genebackis because Toll the Hounds is a long way off chief
I love this series and I'm actually about to finish the last of the main books but I do agree is hard to get into but it so pays off
Personally, I want to get into this series. But I will put the first book down for a few weeks, and when I pick it back up, I’ve forgotten what’s happened and who is who.
Should've used tor.com, its good in details and characters
Reading Malazan. I've learned like 20+ new words in the first 2 books.
I am personally not a fan of book series that in order to get everything at once you’re gonna have to read multiple books on and off. Game of Thrones did that
But yeah you’re definitely right on how this story absorbs your time
I do love it though that you know this book mythos was already written in his head start to finish
Advice to new readers, use tor.com. That was very helpful in tracking the characters and the plot (if you forgot some details)
Sure, if you can ignore the PC and SJW biased articles, it's ok.
Definitely agree with folks who said this one should have been read second. I think it makes it much more palatable overall. Think a 2 out of 10 is pretty harsh. I really enjoyed this book and for someone who really seems to enjoy the series as a whole I find it hard to believe you can honestly give this a rating so far below even a 5. Like I would love even a little more specifics about how this come in so low. There are a lot of fun characters and battles that seem to at least warrant something like a 4. But hey that's just my take.
Just finished it, it’s super confusing but it’s still a great plot, good characters
"one of the most complex fantasy books I've every read" oh boy... it gets so much worse. But all those new characters, just get more and more interesting. I'm reading Reaper's Gale right now, and boy oy boy, the absolute ludicrous nature of come of the conversations. Hellian, Stormy, Masan Gilani, Karsa Orlong,Ublala Pung, Tehol Beddict, Bugg, Koryk, and Smiles. Too many to name over the series. I eagerly await your next review.
I think i read once that Stephen Erickson intentionally made the first book complicated to weed out those not committed to a huge epic series. I"m not sure I've read anything as complicated of Malazan. And that includes WoT, GOT, and Stormlight (Cosmere). And Yes, it can only be recommended to hardcore fantasy, and that will be a limited audience.
PS. I took a break between the last too book.... and forgot half the characters. Something to stay at
Joining Mike's readalong and I enjoyed this book a lot, it took a while to get into, but I really enjoyed the characters abd the plot once I got into it
Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, and The Bonehunters are regarded as the best entries in the series.
Personally, I like Midnight Tides... but I think everyone can agree Dust of Dreams is the worst... ugh...
Will WoTTalk continue?
Yes!
Great it’s my favorite thing you do on the channel!
Scratching the surface. Book 3 of the main series. Once you start reading the Esselmont books as well it gets interesting. So much character and world development. It's a world builders wet dream.
I'm a novice fantasy reader and this series is my first dive into fantasy literature. I absolutelly adore the main 10 books. But i have to say that a reread is necessary. Right now i'm on the second book by the cowriter Ian C Esselmont and i love it
I agree with you. While I like the world and story, the books are a hard read. You need to be in the right frame of mind to read. The trouble with that is once you finish one, you don’t want to read another straight away. Then by the time you are ready again you have forgotten the plot.
If the writing style was more like Brandon Sanderson, I believe these books would be in the public consciousness at the same level as a Song of Ice and Fire. Very good, but hard to digest, like a large steak.
If Malazan were written in the style of Sanderson it wouldn't be Malazan at all. It's deliberately difficult, that difficulty is a part of the whole.
I listened to Gardens of the Mon via audiobook about a month ago and loved it. Way more characters than merely Rake stood out to me as well. I went into it knowing that it is dense, but I would just lay back and experience it, not worrying about keeping everything at the forefront of my mind.
Deadhouse Gates, however, I started a week ago and have taken off a couple days of listening because I truly feel like I have no idea what I'm listening to. I had always heard that Gardens of the Moon was more difficult to digest, since its one's first experience with Malazan, but that foot in the door isn't helping me with Deadhouse Gates. Thoughts?
This aint it chief.
Malazan > WoT
Gene Litvinov I prefer Malazan by a large margin but it’s really a matter of opinion - thinking WoT is better is perfectly valid
Hi nice always watching ur channel!!!!! Happy reading to u!!! From ur uk fan!! 📖🍁
Man this book made me so angry and emotional and when xxxxxxx was betrayed I threw my book across the room ... and by far this and Memories of Ice are my favourite books in Malazan .
Meh, sexual assaults in DG was necessary to the story line of Felisin if anything
Dude... Malazan is just fucking insane. There's some of the most intense crazy mind blowing shit that happens in those books... Things I could never dream up, in a million years. Absolutely defines the word EPIC. But there's shit in there that feels like a bad acid trip too. No matter how many times I read over it, there's just things I do not get. Just read the beginning of Dust of Dreams as an example. Overall I loved it, even with 10 to 15% not making any sense to me. The great parts are just that great.
For me the audio book is realy really good
much much better than the book itself
I like malazan. only gonna consume through audible or scribd tho, really dont have the time or patience to read. Anyway, just like with the brick incident, this has its moments that felt like getting tazered in order to check if I was still paying attention. Like the part about that woman who tried to rescue some drowning people by getting on a freakin horse, and gallopping off the boat, down the ocean. sploosh. LOL.
Just finished it and man I have conflicting feelings... Now mind you my translated German version is split into two books and comes out at over 1100 pages in total so maybe that played into it. Usually I don`t mind a huge book and the story told was good but man it was jarring to read and tbh it felt way too long. Huge chunks of the book are just descriptions of walking through the desert and being thirsty and hungry. It started out with Felisin where every chapter concerning her was just a walk from one oasis to the next and her feeling like she was about to die every time but then later also Kalams, Fiddlers and even the chain of dogs chapters were only about walking and having little food and water. That was so frustrating. And then after 1100 pages I`m left feeling like this is just a book for setting up what is to come, much more so than Gardens of the Moon. You really need over 1k pages of which 30 percent is runing through the desert to set up something? idk man
I have the next book so I will continue reading but tbh this book would have usually turned me off from the series. No matter the scale fantasy should not feel frustrating and unrewarding to read
I say this with the caveat that I'm only on book 3 (likely to finish tonight) (reading in published order) but Erikson seems to struggle in creating indellible connections between characters sometimes or even properly defining characters. For instance, the reintroduction of the sailors in deadhouse had me scrambling to figure out who was who and where they ended up and I'm struggling to remember their final fate in the book as a whole. That said, I think Felisin and Heboric 's relationship was mapped out beautifully and so far the relationship I'm most interested in seeing develop. I found Duiker to be the single most interesting character in the books this far, moreso than Annomander Rake, even. Frankly, Rake doesn't excite or intrigue me at all. I've read enough about men with God like strength with shadowy lasts; give me the weathered and exhausted old man. Where Erikson shines is in his setpieces. How he wrote the conclusion of Coltaines story thread in this book will stay with me forever and what happens after that left me shaken. I was listening to the audiobook in the car with my friend and we sat in silence for a good 30 minutes to an hour just reflecting on the writing there.
Coltaine is definitely highlight in the série. And that says a lot in a série that good
I think you've just convinced me to just drop this series.
I'm halfway through "Garden of the Moon" and I'm barely holding on to my sanity. I feel almost nothing for the characters(of which they're too many), The prose isn't working for me and Erikson seems to be allergic to exposition cuz I've got absolutely no idea what the fuck is going on most of the time. While i do enjoy the cool magic battles, stopping to do "research" every 3 pages is putting a serious damper on my overall enjoyment. To be fair, I was warned that gardens of the moon was difficult to read but I was assured that deadhouse gates was where the series starts to get really good. But from you're review, it seems like it doesn't change much.
"The fanbase seems to be very understanding"
Are you kidding me?, Just about every malazan fan I've encountered are horrible snobs who act like completing the series makes you some kind of genius. Saying that malazan isn't the best fantasy series ever immediately earns you tons of insults about you're intellect and taste. In fact, a large part of why i wanted to read this series is because i was curious as to why people act all snobbish after reading it.But maybe you've been lucky enough to meet nicer fans than I have.
Ultimately I've decided that whatever it is that makes people like malazan, it's simply not for me.
@Gene Litvinov I know this is a year late but: WILL YOU SHUT UP YOU ABSOLUTE PILLOCK! This is at least the 6th post where you commented snide, condescending remarks to people. I wouldn't mind if it was only yourself that you were making seem like an elitist gatekeeping wanker-snob. But you're sullying the reputation of a series I, and many other reasonable people, feel deeply passionate about. You make me ashamed of being part of the same community as you. You are the worst of what one can expect from an internet fanbase, a repugnant creature I only wish I could call a troll - but you lack any semblance of the self-awareness and (albeit low-brow) humour usually characteristic of said web-fauna. No, you sir are quite simply an arse, a disgraceful creature to whom I shall now say good day...
To Yarvi I can only apologise on his behalf. it's okay if you don't like it, to each his own...
@Gene Litvinov Except I've read it multiple times, obviously understood it waaaaay better than you (or you would never speak like that to anybody of it) and have had in depth, one on one discussions with the author. And I'm telling you, you're a dick....
@Gene Litvinov if you where a character from the books, you'd be Snell....
I‘m on the last 200 pages of Deadhouse Gates and am happy it‘s considered the „worst“ book in the seres by many. Though the characters are all well written, I like the original set a lot more. Excited to continue straight away 😉
I like dark and real, and this series delivers on a scale others don't come close to, they come across as PG-12A where this is 18. If you are good at immersing yourself and purely focusing on a single topic then this will pull you in and you wont want to come up for air. It was easy for me to keep track of characters, groups and themes. Its just a case of storing them because everyone gets brought to a close. It jumps around different times and places but it is all relevant. With the 20 something books that are out now I would say start at the beginning. you can find the list online. The Kark trilogy is awesome although we are waiting on shadow. the world building is insanely rich, diverse cultures and deep characters which you will become very attached to. There are plenty of different personalities and you will be disgusted at the actions they take and the crimes they commit against others, then there are those who are true and you will fall in love with and hold close. This series will make you cry, laugh and a bit disgusted at things that happen. There are no true saints or sinners, just people trying to survive by the environment that created them.
To my Beak...RIP....it still gets me emotional lol.
Criticism of the writing style is gross to me, and I don’t say that lightly.
Steven Erickson doesn’t water everything down to make his writing boring but easy for people and yet he doesn’t reach the wonderful complexity of few in fantasy such as Tolkien (which is fine)
You probably not going to like the setup for Midnight Tides then...
I hate to break it to you but you have two more times to get introduced to a full set of new characters.
Welcome to Ohio! I'm about 1.5hr NW of you now
Let's summarize Malazan
Actually gardens and memories felt more stand alone and dead house thru the rest of the series feels like they go together more and midnight tides should be read before house i think
Cool! I live in Ohio myself, on behalf of the people of Cleveland I say welcome!