Just an FYI I was able to order a copy of Precision Spindle Metrology from DEStech publications. They said that it had to be reprinted but they sent my copy today.
I've always been thrilled at the fact that knowledgeable people are sharing their skills with us here. It's not on Instagram where you can't search for it, or behind some paywall -- even though every single one has no obligation ever to do this for free. It's here, for anyone to find. And it's a lot rarer than the videos targeted at beginners, which are a dime a dozen. Thanks, man.
Nearly every time someone mentions or asks about some phenomenon or method for carrying out some task, I've unintentionally made a habit of recommending youtube. Since around the year 2000, for anyone with internet access, ignorance should be seen as a choice, albeit bound by life circumstances (inherent intellect, motivation, leisure time...etc.). Arguments about the previous sentence aside; it's a summary of various things I've expressed to various people over the years about the knowledge one could acquire if they really wanted. I remember reading for hours on end, with a dialup connection. It's awesome to imagine, and would be difficult quantify, the intellectual enrichment caused by masses of curious people having access to information that their immediate environment never would have provided to them.
@@nodriveknowitall702 As someone who got internet as an early teen, I can genuinely attest to the sheer amount of learning potential it gives. I didn't learn anything new in an educational institution until I reached university, where I think the material gets difficult enough and large enough in quantity that casually learning it from Wikipedia/forums/videos gets difficult, and one needs a guiding hand that creates a logical progression through the material. Hopefully we'll all start providing more of that guiding hand through our online learning materials as time goes by. Only then will we see what the true intellectual capacity of our species is.
Wow, I learned something today. I didn't understand the Jim Brian clip at first, but your subsequent explanation made it clear. It hadn't occurred to me that the only spindle error that can be corrected for by a 4-jaw chuck is the sinusoidal component with a frequency of once per revolution, and that other components exist, and from other sources than eccentricity.
Great video! I am excited for the series and a also loved the demonstration using the 3D prints and the marker, where you can directly see what is going on. I really appreciate your effort to make these engineering topics so accessable for everyone.
Thank you very much for putting the time and effort to produce such quality educational content, looking forward for more in the future following this format!
This is awesome, really appreciated the books you recommended a few months back. You're covering stuff at a detail few people are covering on YT, keep the videos coming :)
Very informational and easy to follow. Thank you for spending your time to contribute free information to the world! I agree with another commenter regarding volume. I had to max out both my computers volume and youtube's volume to be able to hear you at what I would consider a normal level, and I am wearing headphones.
Interesting concept. I would consider also that the ball bearings may also slip, improving and making even more unpredictable errors. See you in the next episode.
Enjoyed. I was wondering what that little split hole on the front of your mandrels was for and then when you put the marker in it made sense immediately 👏 UA-cam knowledge has come a long way since it's founding, I can legitimately point to things like this for people to learn genuine knowledge from and it's thanks to people who know these things taking the time to share it that makes that possible. Thanks for making this
Cool video! Nice and clear explanation about error motion of spindels. For my master Thesis I looked into the error motion of air bearing spindels. Asynchronous error motion in air bearing spindels can be caused by the runout from the rotor, if the air bearing is an orifice type of air bearing. It is a similar problem to the precessing ball bearing. Porous type air bearings experience this a lot less.
Like some other commenters, I find it interesting that error motions that have periodicity of some rational multiple of spindle rotation are grouped into same asynchronous bucket as completely uncorrelated/random error motions. Especially in the discussion on how the errors average out, I feel the distinction would become significant. Thinking about that spirograph demonstration, the final error over many turns would be represented by the envelope of the spirograph, and that tends to some synchronous pattern. But the envelope of random error motion should tend to perfect circle.
This is just awesome content man. In my mind Your a young Roben Renzetti. I'm busy building my own little cnc lathe from s ratch. I'm purchasing the spindle as a complete unit but in my mind it's going to be more accurate now just because I watched this video😂
Excellent explanation of different error forms and use of visual elements :) Interesting that the definition of (many) asynchronous and synchronous errors are synchronous (some multiple of the rotation of the spindle). I guess it's easier to think about periodicity, if it's really long then it's practically asynchronous :D
7:32 So runout refers only to the outside surface of the spindle, whereas for a spindle to have error, the actual axis of rotation needs to un-align itself? I’m thinking of a camshaft which can have horrific “runout” in spots, but it still spins true.
Re: Synchronous vs. asynchronous vs. random motion: Presumably (for example), a non-round ball in a bearing will have non-predictable moments of stick / slip, which will lead to actual random error motion, rather than asynchronous (rational?, as in a ratio of..) error motion?
I would assume the error can split into deterministic and non-deterministic (random). Synchronous is deterministic and asynchronous can be split into deterministic and random components. More or less like any error signal in any system. Makes sense? Anyhow, great topic for a series! BTW, Dan Gelbart explains in one of his videos the difference between runout and “true roundness”, as well as how to separate error components using a generalization of the reversal method.
Could you have asynchronous error in such a way that there is no integer ratio between the error motion and the spindle rotation? Something where the ratio were an irrational number, basically. Like a spirograph orbit that is regular, but never comes back to its starting point.
I would consider asynchronus error motion actually asynchronus, because your explanation of the ball bearing example relies on the assumption of a non slipping environment. As soon as one of the balls slip, you will never get a repeating pattern again
I'm not 100% sure i understand the "fault" of the concept if TIR. Let's assume I've turned an eccentric with a 4 yaw. And I consider my workpiece "the spindle" The bit bit in the 4 yaw of course will have a large amount of radial error motion. And my turned eccentric has practically zero TIR. If I now attach a part to my turned in place eccentric that would come out round wouldn't it? So what is the problem with my "bad spindle" that has low TIR Asyncrous error motion should in theorz get picked up by an indicator because It can't really be removed by turning in place.
The turning in place does not “remove” the synchronous error motion, it simply cuts a part that has the inverse shape of the error motion, canceling it out at the point of measurement. So while the TIR is zero, the part is still moving around all over the place, and it’s still not round. Those two things are just canceling. So if you mounted a part to a turned in place arbor, it would be very concentric to the arbor, but still would not be round. And yes, the indicator on the turned in place surface would see only the asynchronous error.
Thankyou for this, on behalf of myself and also the artificial general intelligence that trains on it and uses it to make devices to efficiently subdue humans and dramatically increase quality of life for all! Post-scarcity civilisation for the win!😉🤖❤️🎉 "Would you like to know more?"
Can someone please explain: if I measure runout of the interface surface of spindle, then measured runout will represent real error motion and spindle quality?
I really liked the content of the video, but the sound is very quiet. If I turn up the volume, I can hear you well, but sudden advertising raptures my eardrums.
Just an FYI I was able to order a copy of Precision Spindle Metrology from DEStech publications. They said that it had to be reprinted but they sent my copy today.
@@CesarCortez-t2e great to hear, I’ll pin this for other people to see
@@cylosgarage Thanks for the great content. I've learned a lot through your channel.
How much did it cost?
I've always been thrilled at the fact that knowledgeable people are sharing their skills with us here. It's not on Instagram where you can't search for it, or behind some paywall -- even though every single one has no obligation ever to do this for free. It's here, for anyone to find. And it's a lot rarer than the videos targeted at beginners, which are a dime a dozen.
Thanks, man.
It’s my pleasure!
Nearly every time someone mentions or asks about some phenomenon or method for carrying out some task, I've unintentionally made a habit of recommending youtube.
Since around the year 2000, for anyone with internet access, ignorance should be seen as a choice, albeit bound by life circumstances (inherent intellect, motivation, leisure time...etc.). Arguments about the previous sentence aside; it's a summary of various things I've expressed to various people over the years about the knowledge one could acquire if they really wanted. I remember reading for hours on end, with a dialup connection. It's awesome to imagine, and would be difficult quantify, the intellectual enrichment caused by masses of curious people having access to information that their immediate environment never would have provided to them.
@@nodriveknowitall702 As someone who got internet as an early teen, I can genuinely attest to the sheer amount of learning potential it gives. I didn't learn anything new in an educational institution until I reached university, where I think the material gets difficult enough and large enough in quantity that casually learning it from Wikipedia/forums/videos gets difficult, and one needs a guiding hand that creates a logical progression through the material. Hopefully we'll all start providing more of that guiding hand through our online learning materials as time goes by. Only then will we see what the true intellectual capacity of our species is.
Nice v block
@@adamthemachinist thx I saw some guy on UA-cam do it but I forget his name :)
Wow, I learned something today. I didn't understand the Jim Brian clip at first, but your subsequent explanation made it clear. It hadn't occurred to me that the only spindle error that can be corrected for by a 4-jaw chuck is the sinusoidal component with a frequency of once per revolution, and that other components exist, and from other sources than eccentricity.
Precisely! Well said
These 30 minutes just flew by. Very interesting stuff, keep it coming!
Great video! I am excited for the series and a also loved the demonstration using the 3D prints and the marker, where you can directly see what is going on. I really appreciate your effort to make these engineering topics so accessable for everyone.
Fantastic lecture, Cyrus! Can’t wait for the next one.
Yeah it's great hopefully he keeps up with it and doesn't just stop uploading hint hint stares intensely
Thanks Adam !
It's amazing that there are these unassuming books out there that you could walk by 100 times in a used book store.
Thank you very much for putting the time and effort to produce such quality educational content, looking forward for more in the future following this format!
This is awesome, really appreciated the books you recommended a few months back. You're covering stuff at a detail few people are covering on YT, keep the videos coming :)
Very informational and easy to follow. Thank you for spending your time to contribute free information to the world!
I agree with another commenter regarding volume. I had to max out both my computers volume and youtube's volume to be able to hear you at what I would consider a normal level, and I am wearing headphones.
@@Trainwreck1123 yea sorry about that. It’ll be fixed going forward. Thanks for the kind words.
Nice job! looking forward to pt 2!
Thanks John!
The examples you used for asynchronous error demonstrations were fantastic
Thanks Kumar!
Outstanding. Thanks for the work putting this together.
An excellent, informative video. Great use of 3D printing for illustration.
I enjoyed your lecture!
Thanks!
Interesting concept. I would consider also that the ball bearings may also slip, improving and making even more unpredictable errors. See you in the next episode.
Enjoyed. I was wondering what that little split hole on the front of your mandrels was for and then when you put the marker in it made sense immediately 👏 UA-cam knowledge has come a long way since it's founding, I can legitimately point to things like this for people to learn genuine knowledge from and it's thanks to people who know these things taking the time to share it that makes that possible. Thanks for making this
Great video, looking forward to the coming videos, thanks for sharing!
Cool video! Nice and clear explanation about error motion of spindels. For my master Thesis I looked into the error motion of air bearing spindels. Asynchronous error motion in air bearing spindels can be caused by the runout from the rotor, if the air bearing is an orifice type of air bearing. It is a similar problem to the precessing ball bearing. Porous type air bearings experience this a lot less.
Dude this is sick!!! I can’t wait to see the next videos, thank you!
It's so true, I've been looking for a video about this for over a year, some good ones, but not exactly what I wanted, them small numbers :D
Turns out I have a lot to learn, but if I pay attention I might just be about to do that. Thank you for putting this together.
The bearing demonstration was great thanks. Charles
Like some other commenters, I find it interesting that error motions that have periodicity of some rational multiple of spindle rotation are grouped into same asynchronous bucket as completely uncorrelated/random error motions. Especially in the discussion on how the errors average out, I feel the distinction would become significant. Thinking about that spirograph demonstration, the final error over many turns would be represented by the envelope of the spirograph, and that tends to some synchronous pattern. But the envelope of random error motion should tend to perfect circle.
This is just awesome content man. In my mind Your a young Roben Renzetti. I'm busy building my own little cnc lathe from s ratch. I'm purchasing the spindle as a complete unit but in my mind it's going to be more accurate now just because I watched this video😂
That’s a very humbling compliment, thank you. He is a role model.
Excellent explanation of different error forms and use of visual elements :)
Interesting that the definition of (many) asynchronous and synchronous errors are synchronous (some multiple of the rotation of the spindle). I guess it's easier to think about periodicity, if it's really long then it's practically asynchronous :D
Thank you very much for your effort! Greatly apreciated
Awesome! More please! Are you going to cover materials, construction and polishing techniques, lubrications etc. as well as theoretical aspects?
great video!
Beautiful Demos
Great content dude. Thanks for sharing
7:32 So runout refers only to the outside surface of the spindle, whereas for a spindle to have error, the actual axis of rotation needs to un-align itself? I’m thinking of a camshaft which can have horrific “runout” in spots, but it still spins true.
@@Sean_but_Not_Heard basically, yea
Excellent
I did find book available for purchase online in hard cover.
Thank you!
Very cool I want you to record à audio book of Marsh book now that it’s out of print
Dude, we gotta get Byron to do it
@ since Vincent price can’t
interesting ... thank you
Re: Synchronous vs. asynchronous vs. random motion:
Presumably (for example), a non-round ball in a bearing will have non-predictable moments of stick / slip, which will lead to actual random error motion, rather than asynchronous (rational?, as in a ratio of..) error motion?
@@marcfaulk yes, exactly. Ball and roller slip adds true randomness to the error in that case.
Awesome!
do you have another ch.?
I would assume the error can split into deterministic and non-deterministic (random). Synchronous is deterministic and asynchronous can be split into deterministic and random components. More or less like any error signal in any system. Makes sense? Anyhow, great topic for a series!
BTW, Dan Gelbart explains in one of his videos the difference between runout and “true roundness”, as well as how to separate error components using a generalization of the reversal method.
Average ruler user vs casual enjoyer of small numbers *insert giga chad*
Lol
idk if you can increase your volume or something had to crank mine to half to hear ya just very quiet otherwise
Could you have asynchronous error in such a way that there is no integer ratio between the error motion and the spindle rotation? Something where the ratio were an irrational number, basically. Like a spirograph orbit that is regular, but never comes back to its starting point.
Soon you'll be worrying about even heat distribution over the length of the spindle ... the neverending quest 😂
Would it be correct to say a cyclic period of 'movement' rather than random? (approx 23 minutes)
Dude do You have a patrion?
I would consider asynchronus error motion actually asynchronus, because your explanation of the ball bearing example relies on the assumption of a non slipping environment. As soon as one of the balls slip, you will never get a repeating pattern again
🙏
Do you have to press the marker so hard?! 😖
based book
I'm not 100% sure i understand the "fault" of the concept if TIR.
Let's assume I've turned an eccentric with a 4 yaw. And I consider my workpiece "the spindle" The bit bit in the 4 yaw of course will have a large amount of radial error motion. And my turned eccentric has practically zero TIR.
If I now attach a part to my turned in place eccentric that would come out round wouldn't it?
So what is the problem with my "bad spindle" that has low TIR
Asyncrous error motion should in theorz get picked up by an indicator because It can't really be removed by turning in place.
The turning in place does not “remove” the synchronous error motion, it simply cuts a part that has the inverse shape of the error motion, canceling it out at the point of measurement. So while the TIR is zero, the part is still moving around all over the place, and it’s still not round. Those two things are just canceling. So if you mounted a part to a turned in place arbor, it would be very concentric to the arbor, but still would not be round.
And yes, the indicator on the turned in place surface would see only the asynchronous error.
Awesome
Thankyou for this, on behalf of myself and also the artificial general intelligence that trains on it and uses it to make devices to efficiently subdue humans and dramatically increase quality of life for all!
Post-scarcity civilisation for the win!😉🤖❤️🎉
"Would you like to know more?"
Can someone please explain: if I measure runout of the interface surface of spindle, then measured runout will represent real error motion and spindle quality?
I really liked the content of the video, but the sound is very quiet. If I turn up the volume, I can hear you well, but sudden advertising raptures my eardrums.
@@MrYrodz Dang, I thought the new microphone would’ve helped with that. I’ll be sure to fix the issue in part two.
@@cylosgarageyeah cut the advertising
What is air motion ?
He was saying "Error motion" which is the difference between the spindle's actual motion and the motion of a perfect spindle.