BSA Rocket Three (A75R) Mk.1 - Solving Erratic Running for Mark and Nigel - Part 2
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
- There's an interloper in the Power Set garage and it needs help. A gentleman by the name of Mark Deakin approached the BSAOC enclosure at Founder's Day in July 2022 and asked if we could assist with diagnosing problems with a Mk. 1 BSA Rocket Three that used to belong to his brother Nigel. How could we refuse. In Part 1 Mark introduced us to the bike and together we undertook initial investigations and tests. In this Part 2, we continue with investigations, repairs and tests. Oh and trials and tribulations too. Can we conclude this? It's a blockbuster this one for sure.
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Classic Triples diagnostics, very much enjoyed that one - “it seems to be the centre pot … nearly there …” - thanks Angus.
Cheers MJ. Thanks for the continued interest.
Goodness me sounds absolutely sweet as a nut in the end…. I cannot begin to tell you how much emotion percolates inside me when I see the results of projects like these….. I’m so sad, I left the British motorcycle scene…..
Hi John yes it wasn’t running too bad by the time we finished - just a bit more fine fettling required. Although you say you left the Brit bike scene hopefully there’s some consolation in the content and events still available. Thanks again for the interest.
Mate, if patience really is a virtue, then you're the most virtuous bloke on earth!!! St Angus!!!! Brilliant job. Was looking forward to the road test!
Many thanks Phil most kind. Hopefully we'll get some shots in the future of Mark on the road - apologies I ran out of time with the battery/Zener problem.
@@BSAPowerSet No problem. I'm afraid that wiring/electrics is all witchcraft to me. Just can't seem to get my head around it. Never could.
Ive spent time with this bike too, your patience is amazing and the pilot jet orifice find was amazing! Well done Angus.
Hi Tony and thanks for the interest and kind comment. How do you know the bike - fascinating stuff!
@@BSAPowerSet I am a mate of Marks and saw the early trials :)
@@mk1cortinatony395 Yes Angus/Tony...helped me get the bike running for the first time in 30 + years it was a great moment
Between Mark and yourself very nice to get another BSA Rocket Three back on the road, especially one as pretty as this bike.
Cheers Stew many thanks.
Fantastic instructional video, thanks Angus, its been a good run over electrical, carb, timing issues. Sounds beautiful now.
Many thanks Paul for the kind comment. The proof will be with the road tests which Mark hopes to undertake shortly.
great work, and you certainly have a lot of patience.
Many thanks Jeffrey for the interest and kind comment. Believe you me, off air, the air can get blue. But not violent.
Beautiful machine, well explained process and resolve to diagnose the problem was impressive, well done 👍👌😁
Many thanks Ian for the interest and kind comment.
I realize some of these points may be obvious to many here, but I think they need restating:
1. In a 3 cylinder engine with 3 carbs, 3 points, 3 plugs and 3 exhausts if one isn't firing, the problem is with THAT cylinder and its associated components. Therefore, there's no point in messing with all three float levels until that is sorted.
2. Try swapping parts around to see what causes the misfire to move. Plugs, plug caps, contact breaker, condenser, carbs etc. That will quickly narrow down the search to a small area.
3. Always do the easy stuff first. If there's some fuel getting to the carbs, then get the sparks 100% right before delving into the details of carb settings. Good sparks are the base from which to start fault finding. Put in new plugs regardless.
4. If the bike was running OK before, ask yourself "what's changed?" This is not really applicable in this case because the bike was in bits before, but it often works for a fault on a bike (or car) that was previously OK.
5. Zener diodes were obsolete by the 1970's! I am surprised any are still in operation. Go buy a modern power diode for a couple of quid, bolt it to a piece of aluminium flat bar to act as a heat sink and hide it under the seat. (I did this on my A65 in 1975 LOL) Keep the old heat sink because it looks pretty.
6. The non-original exhausts may be making all three cylinders run a bit weak so the standard jets may need to go up a bit. In a previous era I would have done a 'plug chop' to check the mix on full throttle but maybe there are exhaust gas analyzers that can do this today.
Thanks for the interest Andrew and insight into your thoughts and process. Each to his own methodology. As long as it's analytical and logical so you're not throwing money at it in hope. We did indeed start in Part 1 with standard settings for carbs and timing before delving in but the main symptom was fuel starvation. I agree exhausts are not standard and might have contributed; however, we checked the X75 handbook and the carb spec/settings are the same. I'm afraid I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to maintaining bikes with the original standard fitments, including electricals - all part of the fun and the channel. Thanks again.
Yes, being in an owner shoes I'd buy a Trispark and Premier carbs instead of this fancy exhaust. I'm quite sure it would save me a lot of troubles. Using old ( but still decent ) carbs I'd start from dismantling them completely followed by a bath in ultrasonic cleaner and a test including not only pilot jet and air canals, but also 2 small orifices located in a carb body under a slide. To do it you simply use air screw to plug it's hole and observe these orifices. Using carb cleaner in spray can and spraying it in a petrol delivery hole you should get 2 thin streams of a cleaner shooting from these orifices. Changing slides to number 3 from 3.5 doesn't make sense to me. Yes initial settings of carbs were ridiculously rich in early models, I use 3.5 slides in my T 150V but Mr Darby recommends number 4 slides and is happy with them. Charging system probably depends on your circumstances, stock is probably OK in rural GB, I live in a big town with lots of traffic lights and heavy traffic even at night so decided to install 3 phase stator and 3 phase regulator / rectifier which delivers enough juice during slow ride in traffic jams.
Thanks for the additional thoughts and suggestions. Mark wanted to keep the bike as Nigel had intended in his memory hence retaining the exhaust and standard components which Nigel had prepared.
I am gobsmacked by your knowledge, expertise and resourcefulness, Angus. It's been a fantastic, albeit frustrating at times, experience. Well done.
Thanks Mac most kind. Always learning though.
Greetings Angus. I’m just finishing up a Dynamic Preservation on a wonderful T160 that’s been off the road since 1980. Although she starts up she is exhibiting similar issues as your project. I’ll be taking the carbs down again this morning and clean the pilot jets again !
The mixture screws in all three carbs don’t seem to have much effect to the idle unless completely closed. And she likes choke all the time.
I appreciate your informative video and knowledge!
Thanks Michael for the interest and kind comment. I’m glad that the video might be helpful in you diagnosing the issue. Just keep plugging and eliminate an item at a time. Best wishes.
👍🏻 nice, sounds a hell of a lot healthier!
Many thanks for the interest and kind comment - agree it seems to be much better subject to road testing.
What a fantastic vlog Angus that bike sounds great wished i lived next door 😎.....be in that garage for day`s 👍
Hi Mick thanks for the kind comment and interest as always.
well done Angus just the job perfect sounds great
Many thanks for the kind comment. It's not perfect yet but I think we're on the way to tune up with some road miles.
I owned a T150 for over 20 years. Lost count of the times I had the carbs out. Even with new ones, idling was a hit and miss affair. In the end I installed a Trispark electronic ignition which transformed the bike. First kick starting and all that. The Boyer before that was hopeless as were the points before it. I read somewhere that 90% of carburation problems are ignition related. Charming bikes but too much trouble to be honest. I fitted a 1000cc Hyde kit and later sold it on to friend. He's delighted with it but then he loves tinkering...
Thanks for the interest, comment and anecdote Nuno. I agree they need regular fettling and maintenance but when they’re running well they’re a very enjoyable ride. I’ve been let down by Boyer as well.
Good job and sounds beautiful,although you reminded me why i stopped riding BSAs and Triumphs,way back in the sixties and early seventies,could of used your expertise and experience👌👌👌
Many thanks Gerry for the interest and kind comment.
Great result Angus. Has Mark considered fitting an export tank and seat to marry with those sexy Hurricane style pipes?
Thanks for the comment and interest. He's kept the bike as his brother intended.
Great video but I think your maths is a bit suspect… The alarm bell rang at 9min05sec in when I saw that you have calculated that you have to depress the valve seat by 0.07” - that’s 70 thou or 1.75mm ! You have correctly calculated the lever ratio - pivot to needle as one fifth (0.2) of that from pivot to edge of float. What you should then have done is multiply 0.2 by the amount you want the edge of the float to move (1mm) to determine the amount you need to depress the needle valve 0.2 x 1.0mm = 0.2mm (0.008”) or 8 thou.
Hi Adam and thanks for the interest and for the informative comment. Maths was never my strong point so this is something I’ll check with Mark in the next instalment as there will be one in the spring when we do some more testing including on the road. Thanks again.
Congrats. Incredible job. Good for you. What a beautiful machine. I went through similar misery with a 76 kz900 years ago. Never did get it right. Could put the carbs on it blindfolded in the end. I seem to recall the pilot screws having little effect...hmmmm...
Many thanks RL for the interest, kind comment and anecdote. Hmmm indeed.
When using a drill bit to clean the pilot jet, Amal recommend a no 78, or 0.016" (approx 0.4mm), so that would be why your 0.75mm got stuck. Personally, I use a few inches of an old throttle cable, with a single strand sticking out about 3/4" at one end. A bit of wiggling and twisting of that usually does the trick. It should be easy to test the Zener diode by measuring peak battery voltage when the engine is running - if it exceeds around 15v, it's not doing its job.
Thanks for the suggestions Rick and for correcting me regarding the drill bit size recommended. Agreed regarding checking the voltage across the battery - initially we’re keeping an eye on the ammeter for first indications. Thanks for the interest and comment.
I'm here because you keep cluttering up my feed with all these junk bikes
If you keep visiting and commenting upon them you keep getting them in your feed. It’s not rocket science David.
I would have liked to have seen the tapping down of the float needle seat procedure, I suppose we just have to use our imagination..
Just light tapping with a drift that is as wide as the top lip of the seat so as not to distort it. Check distant moved with vernier callipers after each light tap. Thanks for the interest Chris.
I was trying help kick it over with you! Sounds really nice.
Many thanks Jimbo for the interest and kind comment.
nice choice on exhaust system and wheel rims, fit right in even for a Mk1, I never liked the 3-2 systems much, is the Rob North frame 3-1 a possible option on the duplex frame Rocket 3's?
Thanks for the comment and interest MC. The North style 3-1 is an option but might require mods - the pipe headers are very long before they bend down. I’ve seen this style fitted to road R3s but don’t know the work involved as I’ve never done it myself.
@@BSAPowerSet - ok thanks Angus, 3-1 possibly a tad loud for road use. Be great to hear how Mark gets on with putting a few miles in after the marathon fettling, thanks for taking us along.
Are those X75 Hurricane exhaust?
Hi Thomas yes Hurricane pipes and silencers - patterns - which are readily available.
Thanks Angus. They look and sound superb on the Rocket 3. Better than ray guns in my humble opinion
Yes they do look good I agree. Although the ray guns are very efficient silencers.
And in part 3 you give up and buy a decent bike.
Only if we hadn’t sorted it. Thanks for the interest.
I’m sorry but remarks like this went out of fashion for anyone over primary school age, about three decades back.
If you don’t like British classics, why are you even here?
@@BigAl53750Thanks BA appreciated.