If you want to find out more on the best Warmog's abusers and counters, you can check out our Twitter thread here 😇. Thanks for watching! x.com/GX_League/status/1799122008585695739
I don't use Twitter so I'll leave this here. Sion is broken with warmog rush. Normally you build his counters to force him out of lane, but by starting ruby crystal and CSing for 8 minutes, you will have warmog. And you will have the 300 HP from passive to make up the remaining requirement for the heal passive. At that point, unless your counter is manaless , you can take all the bad trades you need and you will just regen it all back while they spend resources.
I mean ever since they nerfed it from 1k health to 700 and reduced the regen significantly it was a dead item before it was a staple tank item I dont know what Riot thought will happen after they reverted the nerf anyway as cho gath main warmogs will aways have a place in my heart so love to see it back in the meta.
If you base a lot for wards you either don't use them effectively or your team doesn't buy control wards, either way it shouldn't be an excuse not to go warmogs (which is just value for the gold efficient health stat anyway)
Building Warmogs on Soraka is old news. It is just stronger now and there shouldn't be an excuse for any Soraka player NOT to use warmogs on her. MS + Health + Passive HP Regen = Essential for Soraka, more heal output during fights as well as more survivability. So yes, Warmogs on certain support champions is extremely valuable. Especially on tanks like Alistar and Leona.
@@herlandsson7936this is incorrect, the battle for vision is never ending. At high elos, You’re trolling if you don’t almost always have 3 wards ready to drop
As an adc, I have have found dealing with health stackers way harder for the last 2 patches for the reasons you have mentioned. The only way to deal with health nowadays is to have health shred in your kit, which I believe applies to 40% of todays champions, or take cutdown since high health champions will be above 50% for most of the fight. So pretty much a huge buff to health if enemy team can't counter it
Yeah, everyone THOUGHT Cut Down changes were a buff. In practice, it's a nerf. I say this as a tank player, but in my experience, tanks have always been notorious for lasting longest at low HP, really, by abusing Revitalize on shield abilities. I am far less threatened by Cut Down now compared to Cut Down before.
@@Revenant-oq9ts see cutdown was a nerf for MOST damage dealers, BUT, I've had a LOT of success with using cutdown on champs who have executes/dame increases when enemy is below certain hp treshholds. like, pantheon is NASTY on the early levels due to cutdown basically allowing him to get you Low enough for Q crits Earlier. allowing him to trade in a more efficient way against Dshield + resolve abusers with high hp regen/high hp per level scaling. (akali, ornn, sion, garen, darius, renekton) Idk, what I'm expecting as. someone who always limit-tests and builds offmeta is....when will the dark age of viego/vayne/kogmaw with warmogs bork and terminus begin....
Ornn is very broken right now. I am going overgrowth conditioning and running tear start. Then I go cinder into warmogs into fimbul. get jaksho fourth and you can go situational for the rest. Super op
@@BikerLobsterbro if u think having an extra 300 damage on a tank every 7 seconds is gonna do anything lategame u are clueless, lategame warmogs hard outscales heartsteel because of the regen
@@scrapzz2696 you're gonna have 300 dmg in mid game. In late you will get much more and yes, for tanks this is a very nice damage bonus. Don't forget the infinite hp stacking. However there's no use to compare Hearsteel with Warmog's as the 1st one is always built 1st and the 2nd one is never built 1st.
@@BikerLobster even still warmogs gives 1000 flat hp and with heartsteel it only outscales in super lategame. Dont forget warmog insane 10% movespeed buff, with swifties and celerity + dead mans plate its insane for champs like poppy and skarner
It's super busted in top lane on champs like Mundo. Rush it first item and suddenly you win basically every lane for free as long as you don't get 100-0ed.
Assuming you're csing perfectly and you manage 1-2 solo kills, sure, but not into a losing matchup with a scaling toplane like mundo lmao. Like the only way this realistically pans out is if you're vs an autofill on weakside, and even then you'd likely struggle to see results if it's the common s tiers atm.
As a Mundo Main, no it’s a terrible item on mundo. Heartsteel is still the best item, you get more HP, also good for dealing a lot of damage. Next item is titanic hydra third is overlord blood mail 4th and 5th are dependent on enemy team if they are AP heavy highly recommend spirit visage,
About supports with it, even if soraka can use it in a great way (she can basically warmog her party as well) the cost is too high, really what an expensive item
im loving warmog on singed, can just keep split pushing against champs that outdamage me and keep healing. in team fights i can poison trail everyone and if i survive i can go back to the fight full health on a short time
You're making well over 20 claims for 'why x is redundant after patch, and this is better because y semi counters it" etc etc, but would definitely help if you actually calculated effective hp and efficient gold use for these champs.
Dota had something similar happen a while back. An item that's basically Warmogs was rarely ever bought, then when worlds came around all the pros busted it out and revealed how broken it was lol
@@ohno4435 its volvo's fault for making him one of the few champs that can scale directly off items lol. Anytime i wanna do well in ranked i jist pick centaur
I understand your thought process but I do think It's more than a stretch to think a tank meta might actually happen again in league. Bruisers and damage toplaners are so far ahead of the curve that a change like this at best might make a couple tanks actually playable. I haven't seen a single meta since ardent sensor in season seven in which mid/jungle has not been the primary determining factor in the outcome of games. At best top and support have gotten up to a far third, and ad has been pretty much the worst roll for I can't even think for how long.
yea but consider this: Divine sunderer doesn't exist. AND fiora & camille & vayne, or, say, kogmaw/cassio who are tank busters. don't have the cdr/mana to take you out at 15 mins when you're building warmogs + bami's or warmogs+Tear/frozen heart. Unless you're running BORK fiora with flash ghost(I play her so she's my go-to tankbuster, into lanes like ornn/sion/mundo) you WON'T kill the tank on a tf.....only really fiora, lategame smolder(225stacks), and lategame vayne(3 items+boots + ghost) can deal with this meta, but, guess who has a ban button....AP and lethality varus can't either since they just, won't bust down the tank fast enough + ap varus is turbo nerfed,and Kaenic rookern/Force of nature EXIST. but we'll see.
@@silenceinthewoods2869 no one builds mogs at 15mins first off and secondly building hp against any of the tank busters is a fools errand which is why NO ONE does it.
@@coolboy666ful everyone who is doing the warmogs build is doing bami's /Tiamat + warmogs after cuz it impacts the most during the 15-25 min mark wich is when soulpoint (soulpoint fight being either having 3rd Drake or denying enemy a 3rd drake.not to be confused with getting soul)and Herald are fought mate. Thats the entre point of going for it, the vid explains why meeting the treshold for the item is SO easy nowadays with hp runes at earoy levels.if You finish it by 15 assumimg your farm and macro arent bronze level u can afford completing sunfire by 20 mins on a normal match making You a walking 4k hp 45aoe aura magic damage per second + your own health scalings if you are mundo ,Cho ,Zac ,kench,maokai, etc.
@@silenceinthewoods2869 I agree we will have to see because I more than welcome actual significant changes that will actually change the dynamic of league. Unfortunately the only real significant I've seen were again ardent sensor meta and the fact that supports are far too influential in lane phase bot. I always thought way back in the day when you had a super tank with another player utilizing some serious levels of skill to kite around them was the most interesting time in league. Now it's just does x champion have enough flat damage to one shot enemy champion, if yes win teamfight, If no lose teamfight. At this point I don't know exactly what they could change since we are so far from that point, but it would be nice if It could go back. Making tanks actually viable is the first step in that direction however I think they need to go much further. But I've kind of noticed a pattern where they will make changes like this and then either directly buff the counters to it or they will put something along the lines of we went to far with this change and we are now nerfing another aspect which in the end doesn't end up changing much. But we shall see I would be interested if after a period of time you did a recap on the overall statistics of the change and if players are actually deeming a tank worth playing in games or if the overall numbers stay relatively the same.
I wonder when league players will realize how much less value stacking a single tank stat gives compared to combining them (stacking just HP vs getting hp+armor or hp+mr). It’s actually mind boggling, here are some numbers: If you have 4000 hp and 100 armor, getting +800 hp will increase your effective hp against physical attacks by 20%, whereas getting +100 armor will increase your effective hp against physical attacks by 100%!!
Majority of my games this season win/lost has been determined by if the champion is tanky with little bit of hp like briar and still do dmg or if they can spam shield which has low cooldowns since there’s no answer to it besides serpent fang and lifesteal since no one in the team knows how to buy griev.
This video is so troll lmao. The only champs that are actually good with warmogs are Mundo, Zilean and sometimes Singed. On those characters it's fine but warmogs is still so bad that not even champs like Shyvana, Shen, Zac, Sej, or Tahm build it.
Faced 2 days ago vs a Mundo with that item as Riven, with a jng that never ganked. I was playing dodgeball while he was regaining back all his hp from each trade I made >_>. Should have went ignite to kill him more pre Warmogs.
@@rishyfishy8799 Oh yeah, on a tank gragas build its very fun. Gives some dmg to clear waves early, enough HP to break the warmogs threshold, and a nice amount of mana so for you to be able go fimble fi you want shielding
Can someone explain to me why mana, especially in the early game, isn't considered a combat stat? running out of mana and not being able to trade anymore effectively sucks. Buying a tear on a mana hungry tank such as poppy allows me to effectively trade an extra 3-5 times per recall and significantly smoothing out the lane phase, which seems more than worth the 400g cost of the item
Yeah you can take more trades... But you're much more likely to lose them because you have less damage and health than your opponent. It's good to get later in laning phase, but you almost always need a dorans item first
@Spin793 oh for sure, I don't disagree. I'm a poppy main so I used to start corrupting pot but with the removal it's always dshield/dblade start. I aim for a 750 recall at least so I can grab tear/long sword or tear/boots/pot and the lane usually improves a lot.
Ive been abusing it on sett Heartsteel, boots, hullbreaker, titanic, the hp to ad item, steraks then replace boots with warmogs you get 409 movespeed with sett out of combat ur W does 3.7k dmg without Heartsteel stacks and like 6k or 7k hp i thunk
Yeah.......no. I still get shredded by Dom + Collector. Most champions have Hp% damage in their kits now. I rush warmogs in top lane vs ranged champs. You still have 0 kill pressure. Also heartsteel 2nd item is awful. Also Liandry's counters this item. Not because of the HP% damage burn. The duration of the burn is the problem. Until the burn ends your Warmog's cooldown doesn't start. They can keep you from ever being able to start your warmog heal.
Liandry's is basically the AP meta right now, even Amumu is building it first item. That lack of anti tank assumption is kind of flawed. Also, lifesteal counters HP stacking and still exists. The move speed argument is totally accurate, mobility to the most broken thing in the game and basically defines a champion's ability to be played. However, Warmogs is still bad. There are better move speed options which provide more effective HP and more move speed, and don't essentially grief you out of an item in a fight. This has been heavily debated already and every number based argument and non-fallacy based one come to the conclusion that Warmog's is still only a very situational item. It would be infinitely better if it provided resists and no HP and was intended as a capstone. Even the skirmish argument just doesn't work most of the time. Teams roll up to an objective together. If you're outnumbered, you'll die in the skirmish. If you outnumber, you'll stay in the skirmish because you have a winning fight and won't get value out of Warmog's. If you're even on numbers, you'll be staying in the fight until you win or die. If you're chunked out and go to use Warmog's in this situation, you've already lost the objective because you can't frontline any more, so you've lost the fight and map position and got no value from Warmog's. It remains only useful on a very few champs in a very specific number of situations. Even Kench barely builds it, indicating that it's basically only picked into specific circumstances, like no burn damage champs into low DPS teams who struggle to deal with HP stacking and struggle to take neutrals quickly. How does this change the meta? It doesn't. Even in your example clips, it doesn't work. You show a Zac getting completely chunked out of lane and losing an entire minion wave while dealing NO damage back to a champ a level down from him. What kind of tempo cheat is that? Just build something MR and actually win your trades. You want tempo? Don't be sitting in a bush zoned off exp for 15 seconds waiting to regain HP you could have just not needed to worry about because your opponent was dead. And as always, Twitter is no longer a functional information sharing platform because no one can read more than single tweets.
Maybe my tank ekko build will work once again. I don't remember when exactly i used to play it, but i remember the core and it was jungle. Build - jungle item (I think it was a blade that you slot a gem). Rod of ages, cdr boots warmonger.
You got counter pick as tank? Rush warmogs You don’t wanna lose trade? Rush warmogs You build heartsteel? Rush warmogs Just play sion and Mundo and rush warmogs, take trades and heal back with warmogs, til your enemy have to back, you just take tower and repeat
The second segment of my essay here is rlly important i would like y'all to read it if possible. I think the problem with health is it doesnt have defense to offense, for example armor is defense to physical dmg, magic resist is defense to magic dmg, but health is just health, and with how much we had %hp damage over the last few months or even years, tanks just get countered easily especially because of the fact that %hp dmg exists on items too, meaning anyone can benefit from it, i think they should add something like health armor, maybe true health or something that reduces %hp damages if they think about bringing that back. My point is also that the whole item system is so bad, i really think of dota being superior to league just from this fact, items shouldnt be this overall broken, my current favorite balanced item right now is mercurial scimitar, because it counters healing, magic damage and grants ad and lifesteal, so it is a very situational and niche item built by specific champions in specific situations, like for example a riven facing soraka and two magic dmg dealers, this item would be perfect for her, so my idea is we should get way more niche items than general broken ones. Current super broken item right now is infinity edge, maybe lower its ad by ALOT, maybe to like 30, but then it's speciality is having that crit dmg boost (even though i want crit to be removed from the game).
This guy mustve not been around during season 7 when every single jgler was building green smite > warmogs > stoneplate, these 3 items together gave you literally all the tankiness you could possibly need at only a 3 item power spike, this is also when adcs build paths were complete dog ass and armor pen wasnt as common in builds as it is now. This wasnt even a tank champ exclusive build, if you had any type of engage you were going to be building these items like jarvan lee sin xin zhao literally every champ
Alistar applies resistences before his ultimate flat damage reduction, it will probaby still be played - it used to be back in the day even without the movement speed, but ur reasoning is just wrong, in terms of effective durability added, it's the same as on other champs.
There is a lot more penetration, a bit too much, tanks aren't tanks when adc buys ldr and hp has become relatively better but its still nothing without armor and magic resist, those mages who build lots of hp still get oneshot... And idk why they increased damage so much when the game was overloaded with damage to begin with
An advise from a person who recently came back to League and doesn't know every single item description word by word - show the damn description/tooltip of the item your video is about on the screen at least once.
buying armor really sucks when it doesn't counter assassins who literally only buy items to ignore armor and adcs who will ignore half your armor after paying the tank killing tax. makes sense health is optimal.
sry but this is misinformed 1 u need at least some resistance before u start stacking hp mainly but not only because there way much max health dmg in the game 2warmog cannot be built in lane unless u wanna be usless 3solary is way better option for enchanters 4 if want ms take tailblazer Stop losing to boris plz
I tend to go Warmog because there's always itens with resistance but without HP, so they kinda balance each other. Try it third when you probably already will start fighting a lot, you will be full HP basically everytime.
Ornn also scales HP greatly because he increase it by the same percentage as he does with resistances. For Ornn there actually is a very funny build, you take regular runes but with manaflow band and whatever you want as second sorcery rune in your secondary runes. You have to buy team first item and rush Warmog, after warmog you finish your fimbulwinter(of course yout build boots somehwere in between). If you manage your mana and HP properly during early game, you can have a game without a single recall on Ornn. Warmogs provides you infinite HP regen out of fights and manaflow band provides infinite mana regen if you have stacked tear. And you can buy items with Ornn passive.
I took it on KogMaw for an ARAM once because we lacked a tank. By going Titanic and Wits End, both rewarding me for building HP, I became both hard to kill and annoyingly present. I still got kills due to his percent HP damage. The fact that Terminus also gives both resistances it suddenly doesn't matter that the damage is very bad compared to a carry build. You still deal enough damage to be threatening somewhat and you include on-hit items you might see anyways on him.
Great video in generall, however there is 1 thing I have to point out. Heartsteel dmg is definitely not going to fall off late game by any means unless you buy it when you are being turbo behind and cannot proc any stacks before late game. The reason behind it is that it's dmg scales off bonus HP gained from items, and fhe max HP bonus it provides equals 12% if that dmg and also counts towards heartsteel dmg and HP gain in the future procs. Which means that every single heartsteel proc is going to make next procs more powerfull in terms of both, dmg and HP gain. Meanwhile armor gain per level is always the same AND it is limited since you can't get above 18th lvl. So basically, if you buy hearsteel as first item on toplane tank while not being behind, you can be sure that if you play the game wisely in order to get those sweet stacks at right moments heartseel dmg will outscale armor gained per lvl damage reduction. HP gain and dmg gain from heartsteel stacks is is exponential function. Meanwhile dmg reduction from armor is linear function, because the formula is made in order to make every single 1 point of armor increase your effective HP by 1% of the actual HP value(same thing goes for magic resistance and ability haste btw). So basically heartsteel will always outscale armor at some point, you just need enough time. And of course league matches aren't infinite but as I said, if yuo are behind, you should always be able to get enough stacks in order to take half of AD carry HP with a single auto.
now IF Riot is gonna nerf the item if it actually is that broken which i doubt it. BUT IF!!! then they will nerf anything and everything BUT just reducing items health by 100. Would completely fuck the item Low elos are left wondering why.
Bad take... Most champ that can justify building this item generally won't because it's to much of an investment and by the 4-5 item warmogs isn't what your going to be needing.
I mean wouldnt it be good on a tank buster anyway? I mean get vayne a warmogs, just auto 2 or 3 times more. Now with crit changes i can see her go full crit with a warmogs to just stay in fights longer and do shitloads of damage
Easy nerf, hit HP *damage* scaling on champions with it across the board, because aside from tanks dealing damage, and there not being a very strong anti HP AD option, nothing here is inherently toxic. Tanks surviving fights is literally the whole point of being a tank, HO should hold priority over resistances in most builds, and building survivability should always be a viable option as long as there’s a downside.
This whole video is delusional. This item is basically useless on all champs except maybe Soraka. Yes you can argue that it's slightly better now because BotRK is slightly weaker and Cut Down and LDR don't have %hp passives anymore, but imo it still isn't worth wasting an item slot on (unless you're playing Soraka). I haven't seen anybody build this item in a long time, and there's a reason for that - it's just plain bad.
It's really only good in ARAM for tanks/fighters where you are constantly doing skirmishes/TeamFights and the out of combat regen helps keep you in the fight. Outside of that, just recall. Buy Heartsteel if you want a lot of extra HP.
I didnt watch the video yet but in every single game I was they have atleast 1 person who has % health damage or a liandry or fucking Blade which is still broken against health.
I've been taking it on on-hit kayle top as a 3rd or 4th item and it works (just don't forget the health runes). Let's me make more attacks in fights for that guinsoo passive too. And ms to chase enemies (that is lacking from W because im not ap)
If you want to find out more on the best Warmog's abusers and counters, you can check out our Twitter thread here 😇. Thanks for watching!
x.com/GX_League/status/1799122008585695739
I don't use Twitter so I'll leave this here.
Sion is broken with warmog rush. Normally you build his counters to force him out of lane, but by starting ruby crystal and CSing for 8 minutes, you will have warmog. And you will have the 300 HP from passive to make up the remaining requirement for the heal passive.
At that point, unless your counter is manaless , you can take all the bad trades you need and you will just regen it all back while they spend resources.
Me as a skarner main😮😃
Yes you are absolutely right , as a gwen main i cant agree more with spamming warmog agaisnt any champion
ahaha free life steal for gwen she doesnt even need to buy heal item to her self
Warmogs has always been an interesting item. Tbh I'm surprised it's still in the game.
Riot tends to remove every item that makes the game exciting and fun like zzrot
Warmog outlive force of nature its partner back in the days, but they bring it back but weaker
I mean ever since they nerfed it from 1k health to 700 and reduced the regen significantly it was a dead item before it was a staple tank item I dont know what Riot thought will happen after they reverted the nerf anyway as cho gath main warmogs will aways have a place in my heart so love to see it back in the meta.
Support players on my team don't usually have that problem since they don't appear to know what wards do.
Good old banner + portal to f around against caster top which cant kill banner canon 😂😂😂
IMO buying it on support is kinda bait because you have to base a lot for wards anyway.
15% movespeed though
If you base a lot for wards you either don't use them effectively or your team doesn't buy control wards, either way it shouldn't be an excuse not to go warmogs (which is just value for the gold efficient health stat anyway)
Building Warmogs on Soraka is old news. It is just stronger now and there shouldn't be an excuse for any Soraka player NOT to use warmogs on her.
MS + Health + Passive HP Regen = Essential for Soraka, more heal output during fights as well as more survivability.
So yes, Warmogs on certain support champions is extremely valuable. Especially on tanks like Alistar and Leona.
@@herlandsson7936this is incorrect, the battle for vision is never ending. At high elos, You’re trolling if you don’t almost always have 3 wards ready to drop
it's still busted on Leona. you could never re-engage this quick with a recall
As an adc, I have have found dealing with health stackers way harder for the last 2 patches for the reasons you have mentioned. The only way to deal with health nowadays is to have health shred in your kit, which I believe applies to 40% of todays champions, or take cutdown since high health champions will be above 50% for most of the fight. So pretty much a huge buff to health if enemy team can't counter it
You can also buy Bork unless you're jhin
@@ijustwant7407 jhin, jinx, lucian, tristana, literally every adc who cant go on hit.
Yeah, everyone THOUGHT Cut Down changes were a buff. In practice, it's a nerf.
I say this as a tank player, but in my experience, tanks have always been notorious for lasting longest at low HP, really, by abusing Revitalize on shield abilities. I am far less threatened by Cut Down now compared to Cut Down before.
@@Revenant-oq9ts see cutdown was a nerf for MOST damage dealers, BUT, I've had a LOT of success with using cutdown on champs who have executes/dame increases when enemy is below certain hp treshholds. like, pantheon is NASTY on the early levels due to cutdown basically allowing him to get you Low enough for Q crits Earlier. allowing him to trade in a more efficient way against Dshield + resolve abusers with high hp regen/high hp per level scaling. (akali, ornn, sion, garen, darius, renekton) Idk, what I'm expecting as. someone who always limit-tests and builds offmeta is....when will the dark age of viego/vayne/kogmaw with warmogs bork and terminus begin....
@@mahmoudwaelelmelouk8500 ... jinx and lucian?
Ornn is very broken right now. I am going overgrowth conditioning and running tear start. Then I go cinder into warmogs into fimbul. get jaksho fourth and you can go situational for the rest. Super op
"The longer the game goes on the less revelant Heartsteel becomes" - man, are you trolling or what?
He was talking about damage not the item itself
@@GustavoOliverXD the item's damage scales as great as the item itself. It's damage scales as from itself as from other hp items
@@BikerLobsterbro if u think having an extra 300 damage on a tank every 7 seconds is gonna do anything lategame u are clueless, lategame warmogs hard outscales heartsteel because of the regen
@@scrapzz2696 you're gonna have 300 dmg in mid game. In late you will get much more and yes, for tanks this is a very nice damage bonus. Don't forget the infinite hp stacking. However there's no use to compare Hearsteel with Warmog's as the 1st one is always built 1st and the 2nd one is never built 1st.
@@BikerLobster even still warmogs gives 1000 flat hp and with heartsteel it only outscales in super lategame. Dont forget warmog insane 10% movespeed buff, with swifties and celerity + dead mans plate its insane for champs like poppy and skarner
It's super busted in top lane on champs like Mundo. Rush it first item and suddenly you win basically every lane for free as long as you don't get 100-0ed.
Assuming you're csing perfectly and you manage 1-2 solo kills, sure, but not into a losing matchup with a scaling toplane like mundo lmao. Like the only way this realistically pans out is if you're vs an autofill on weakside, and even then you'd likely struggle to see results if it's the common s tiers atm.
As a Mundo Main, no it’s a terrible item on mundo. Heartsteel is still the best item, you get more HP, also good for dealing a lot of damage. Next item is titanic hydra third is overlord blood mail 4th and 5th are dependent on enemy team if they are AP heavy highly recommend spirit visage,
poke damage doesnt matter anymore bad trades good trades, you heal back
Basically garen
Imagine 6 Item mage can't even deal half HP of Mundo. This tanks are so balanced.
@@SkinShowcase-zm3rs mages job is not to kill tanks its just to cc peal for carries now. and get some damage yeah
@@David-jn1gg 1 year ago i could oneshoot full tank 8k tanks with Malzahar.
@@SkinShowcase-zm3rs I think you still can dot champ items are still pretty good because their build paths are really good
About supports with it, even if soraka can use it in a great way (she can basically warmog her party as well) the cost is too high, really what an expensive item
im loving warmog on singed, can just keep split pushing against champs that outdamage me and keep healing. in team fights i can poison trail everyone and if i survive i can go back to the fight full health on a short time
Basically freelo for Taric players (the 6 of them)
You're making well over 20 claims for 'why x is redundant after patch, and this is better because y semi counters it" etc etc, but would definitely help if you actually calculated effective hp and efficient gold use for these champs.
Dota had something similar happen a while back. An item that's basically Warmogs was rarely ever bought, then when worlds came around all the pros busted it out and revealed how broken it was lol
heart of tarasque still gives so much hp, i used to go blink vanguard and 3 tarassque whenever i played centaur warrunner
@@anti-mate407 centaur 3 heart build will never die lmao
@@ohno4435 its volvo's fault for making him one of the few champs that can scale directly off items lol. Anytime i wanna do well in ranked i jist pick centaur
I understand your thought process but I do think It's more than a stretch to think a tank meta might actually happen again in league. Bruisers and damage toplaners are so far ahead of the curve that a change like this at best might make a couple tanks actually playable. I haven't seen a single meta since ardent sensor in season seven in which mid/jungle has not been the primary determining factor in the outcome of games. At best top and support have gotten up to a far third, and ad has been pretty much the worst roll for I can't even think for how long.
lmao tanks become playable and all the monkeys start hooting and screeching tank meta....
yea but consider this: Divine sunderer doesn't exist. AND fiora & camille & vayne, or, say, kogmaw/cassio who are tank busters. don't have the cdr/mana to take you out at 15 mins when you're building warmogs + bami's or warmogs+Tear/frozen heart. Unless you're running BORK fiora with flash ghost(I play her so she's my go-to tankbuster, into lanes like ornn/sion/mundo) you WON'T kill the tank on a tf.....only really fiora, lategame smolder(225stacks), and lategame vayne(3 items+boots + ghost) can deal with this meta, but, guess who has a ban button....AP and lethality varus can't either since they just, won't bust down the tank fast enough + ap varus is turbo nerfed,and Kaenic rookern/Force of nature EXIST. but we'll see.
@@silenceinthewoods2869 no one builds mogs at 15mins first off and secondly building hp against any of the tank busters is a fools errand which is why NO ONE does it.
@@coolboy666ful everyone who is doing the warmogs build is doing bami's /Tiamat + warmogs after cuz it impacts the most during the 15-25 min mark wich is when soulpoint (soulpoint fight being either having 3rd Drake or denying enemy a 3rd drake.not to be confused with getting soul)and Herald are fought mate. Thats the entre point of going for it, the vid explains why meeting the treshold for the item is SO easy nowadays with hp runes at earoy levels.if You finish it by 15 assumimg your farm and macro arent bronze level u can afford completing sunfire by 20 mins on a normal match making You a walking 4k hp 45aoe aura magic damage per second + your own health scalings if you are mundo ,Cho ,Zac ,kench,maokai, etc.
@@silenceinthewoods2869 I agree we will have to see because I more than welcome actual significant changes that will actually change the dynamic of league. Unfortunately the only real significant I've seen were again ardent sensor meta and the fact that supports are far too influential in lane phase bot.
I always thought way back in the day when you had a super tank with another player utilizing some serious levels of skill to kite around them was the most interesting time in league. Now it's just does x champion have enough flat damage to one shot enemy champion, if yes win teamfight, If no lose teamfight.
At this point I don't know exactly what they could change since we are so far from that point, but it would be nice if It could go back. Making tanks actually viable is the first step in that direction however I think they need to go much further. But I've kind of noticed a pattern where they will make changes like this and then either directly buff the counters to it or they will put something along the lines of we went to far with this change and we are now nerfing another aspect which in the end doesn't end up changing much.
But we shall see I would be interested if after a period of time you did a recap on the overall statistics of the change and if players are actually deeming a tank worth playing in games or if the overall numbers stay relatively the same.
prob is as loong you get fountain mvspeed buff wich is always the case when you can buy warmogs, it make the item obsolete
I swear if they use this as an excuse to give bork the +10 current hp dps.
so you are the reason for the warmogs yuumi in my game
What are you on about like half the ad crit items got nerfed littereally fake information you are spreading
Are u dumb? 25% crit an item. Massive AD and crit. There is a reason it is callee adc and phreak season
I wonder when league players will realize how much less value stacking a single tank stat gives compared to combining them (stacking just HP vs getting hp+armor or hp+mr). It’s actually mind boggling, here are some numbers:
If you have 4000 hp and 100 armor, getting +800 hp will increase your effective hp against physical attacks by 20%, whereas getting +100 armor will increase your effective hp against physical attacks by 100%!!
Majority of my games this season win/lost has been determined by if the champion is tanky with little bit of hp like briar and still do dmg or if they can spam shield which has low cooldowns since there’s no answer to it besides serpent fang and lifesteal since no one in the team knows how to buy griev.
* Laughs in Rhaast *
This video is so troll lmao. The only champs that are actually good with warmogs are Mundo, Zilean and sometimes Singed. On those characters it's fine but warmogs is still so bad that not even champs like Shyvana, Shen, Zac, Sej, or Tahm build it.
Faced 2 days ago vs a Mundo with that item as Riven, with a jng that never ganked.
I was playing dodgeball while he was regaining back all his hp from each trade I made >_>.
Should have went ignite to kill him more pre Warmogs.
Pair it with a rod on an AP tank, and you have infinite mana and hp and never have to back
U tried?
sounds like mega garbage ngl
@@rishyfishy8799 Oh yeah, on a tank gragas build its very fun. Gives some dmg to clear waves early, enough HP to break the warmogs threshold, and a nice amount of mana so for you to be able go fimble fi you want shielding
Can someone explain to me why mana, especially in the early game, isn't considered a combat stat? running out of mana and not being able to trade anymore effectively sucks. Buying a tear on a mana hungry tank such as poppy allows me to effectively trade an extra 3-5 times per recall and significantly smoothing out the lane phase, which seems more than worth the 400g cost of the item
Yeah you can take more trades...
But you're much more likely to lose them because you have less damage and health than your opponent.
It's good to get later in laning phase, but you almost always need a dorans item first
@Spin793 oh for sure, I don't disagree. I'm a poppy main so I used to start corrupting pot but with the removal it's always dshield/dblade start. I aim for a 750 recall at least so I can grab tear/long sword or tear/boots/pot and the lane usually improves a lot.
Yeah warmogs will surely help against one 2k auto from caitlyn
Ive been abusing it on sett
Heartsteel, boots, hullbreaker, titanic, the hp to ad item, steraks then replace boots with warmogs you get 409 movespeed with sett out of combat ur W does 3.7k dmg without Heartsteel stacks and like 6k or 7k hp i thunk
Didn’t see anyone buying this item yet on my game
And we aren't we talking about Shields... If your team can't build serpent's fang u're done.
Yeah.......no. I still get shredded by Dom + Collector. Most champions have Hp% damage in their kits now.
I rush warmogs in top lane vs ranged champs. You still have 0 kill pressure. Also heartsteel 2nd item is awful.
Also Liandry's counters this item. Not because of the HP% damage burn. The duration of the burn is the problem. Until the burn ends your Warmog's cooldown doesn't start. They can keep you from ever being able to start your warmog heal.
Liandry's is basically the AP meta right now, even Amumu is building it first item. That lack of anti tank assumption is kind of flawed. Also, lifesteal counters HP stacking and still exists.
The move speed argument is totally accurate, mobility to the most broken thing in the game and basically defines a champion's ability to be played.
However, Warmogs is still bad. There are better move speed options which provide more effective HP and more move speed, and don't essentially grief you out of an item in a fight. This has been heavily debated already and every number based argument and non-fallacy based one come to the conclusion that Warmog's is still only a very situational item. It would be infinitely better if it provided resists and no HP and was intended as a capstone.
Even the skirmish argument just doesn't work most of the time. Teams roll up to an objective together. If you're outnumbered, you'll die in the skirmish. If you outnumber, you'll stay in the skirmish because you have a winning fight and won't get value out of Warmog's. If you're even on numbers, you'll be staying in the fight until you win or die. If you're chunked out and go to use Warmog's in this situation, you've already lost the objective because you can't frontline any more, so you've lost the fight and map position and got no value from Warmog's.
It remains only useful on a very few champs in a very specific number of situations. Even Kench barely builds it, indicating that it's basically only picked into specific circumstances, like no burn damage champs into low DPS teams who struggle to deal with HP stacking and struggle to take neutrals quickly.
How does this change the meta? It doesn't. Even in your example clips, it doesn't work. You show a Zac getting completely chunked out of lane and losing an entire minion wave while dealing NO damage back to a champ a level down from him. What kind of tempo cheat is that? Just build something MR and actually win your trades. You want tempo? Don't be sitting in a bush zoned off exp for 15 seconds waiting to regain HP you could have just not needed to worry about because your opponent was dead.
And as always, Twitter is no longer a functional information sharing platform because no one can read more than single tweets.
Maybe my tank ekko build will work once again.
I don't remember when exactly i used to play it, but i remember the core and it was jungle.
Build - jungle item (I think it was a blade that you slot a gem). Rod of ages, cdr boots warmonger.
This item feels seriously AMAZING on Dr. Mundo
I always use this on veigar.
Warmog winrate on Veigar almost 70% xD
You got counter pick as tank? Rush warmogs
You don’t wanna lose trade?
Rush warmogs
You build heartsteel?
Rush warmogs
Just play sion and Mundo and rush warmogs, take trades and heal back with warmogs, til your enemy have to back, you just take tower and repeat
The second segment of my essay here is rlly important i would like y'all to read it if possible.
I think the problem with health is it doesnt have defense to offense, for example armor is defense to physical dmg, magic resist is defense to magic dmg, but health is just health, and with how much we had %hp damage over the last few months or even years, tanks just get countered easily especially because of the fact that %hp dmg exists on items too, meaning anyone can benefit from it, i think they should add something like health armor, maybe true health or something that reduces %hp damages if they think about bringing that back.
My point is also that the whole item system is so bad, i really think of dota being superior to league just from this fact, items shouldnt be this overall broken, my current favorite balanced item right now is mercurial scimitar, because it counters healing, magic damage and grants ad and lifesteal, so it is a very situational and niche item built by specific champions in specific situations, like for example a riven facing soraka and two magic dmg dealers, this item would be perfect for her, so my idea is we should get way more niche items than general broken ones. Current super broken item right now is infinity edge, maybe lower its ad by ALOT, maybe to like 30, but then it's speciality is having that crit dmg boost (even though i want crit to be removed from the game).
This guy mustve not been around during season 7 when every single jgler was building green smite > warmogs > stoneplate, these 3 items together gave you literally all the tankiness you could possibly need at only a 3 item power spike, this is also when adcs build paths were complete dog ass and armor pen wasnt as common in builds as it is now. This wasnt even a tank champ exclusive build, if you had any type of engage you were going to be building these items like jarvan lee sin xin zhao literally every champ
green smite?
Alistar applies resistences before his ultimate flat damage reduction, it will probaby still be played - it used to be back in the day even without the movement speed, but ur reasoning is just wrong, in terms of effective durability added, it's the same as on other champs.
First time being first in anything!
Welcome friend ❤️
There is a lot more penetration, a bit too much, tanks aren't tanks when adc buys ldr and hp has become relatively better but its still nothing without armor and magic resist, those mages who build lots of hp still get oneshot... And idk why they increased damage so much when the game was overloaded with damage to begin with
An advise from a person who recently came back to League and doesn't know every single item description word by word - show the damn description/tooltip of the item your video is about on the screen at least once.
WARMONGERS AATROX LETS GOOOO
buying armor really sucks when it doesn't counter assassins who literally only buy items to ignore armor and adcs who will ignore half your armor after paying the tank killing tax. makes sense health is optimal.
sry but this is misinformed
1 u need at least some resistance before u start stacking hp mainly but not only because there way much max health dmg in the game
2warmog cannot be built in lane unless u wanna be usless
3solary is way better option for enchanters
4 if want ms take tailblazer
Stop losing to boris plz
yeah except the passive only hits when you have 3k HP which is wayyy late into the game
what about armor and mr scaling tanks like ornn or ksante? would you build warmogs on those? its less damage thats for sure
I tend to go Warmog because there's always itens with resistance but without HP, so they kinda balance each other. Try it third when you probably already will start fighting a lot, you will be full HP basically everytime.
Ornn also scales HP greatly because he increase it by the same percentage as he does with resistances.
For Ornn there actually is a very funny build, you take regular runes but with manaflow band and whatever you want as second sorcery rune in your secondary runes.
You have to buy team first item and rush Warmog, after warmog you finish your fimbulwinter(of course yout build boots somehwere in between).
If you manage your mana and HP properly during early game, you can have a game without a single recall on Ornn. Warmogs provides you infinite HP regen out of fights and manaflow band provides infinite mana regen if you have stacked tear.
And you can buy items with Ornn passive.
I took it on KogMaw for an ARAM once because we lacked a tank. By going Titanic and Wits End, both rewarding me for building HP, I became both hard to kill and annoyingly present. I still got kills due to his percent HP damage. The fact that Terminus also gives both resistances it suddenly doesn't matter that the damage is very bad compared to a carry build. You still deal enough damage to be threatening somewhat and you include on-hit items you might see anyways on him.
Often you just have to prevent getting one shotted in aram. I like to build tank Senna in aram
tbh kogmaw tends to build tanky because he gets so much free stats from his W
@@scrapzz2696 Kaenic is currently one of the best situational items for Kog'Maw
my first item on shen on 14.12 and 14.13 when i get it i am unremovable from lane and can trade to then regain health even mundo cant handle it
that is until your enemy has fiora or vayne or any other stupid ass champ that scales with % max health true damage
then youre fucked either way
more penetration will work on champions like malphite or ramus but nor for like mundo zac tahm and other champion that basing or health not not armour
i play evelyn top and can tell warmog+ full AP is just something different
now we know why Aribor goes warmog on everyone in jg KAPPA
"Aside from ADC's and APC's" that's where you're wrong kiddo
warmogs is mid. I only see tanks building, and no one else..you sure youre not smoking crack?
Nice video, you could've shown how the new warmogs is
Seems like it's the same as before they fiddled with it during the item rework, but now it gives movespeed isntead of cdr.
@@BoneWalker gives 1000 hp too
Warmog on Kayle? Are u suggesting me to do this crazy thing?
So you literally have the Garen's passive with an item xD
iv been using warmog for a while with cho gath and it been really good i dont lose often with cho gath and all that health
Great video in generall, however there is 1 thing I have to point out.
Heartsteel dmg is definitely not going to fall off late game by any means unless you buy it when you are being turbo behind and cannot proc any stacks before late game.
The reason behind it is that it's dmg scales off bonus HP gained from items, and fhe max HP bonus it provides equals 12% if that dmg and also counts towards heartsteel dmg and HP gain in the future procs.
Which means that every single heartsteel proc is going to make next procs more powerfull in terms of both, dmg and HP gain.
Meanwhile armor gain per level is always the same AND it is limited since you can't get above 18th lvl.
So basically, if you buy hearsteel as first item on toplane tank while not being behind, you can be sure that if you play the game wisely in order to get those sweet stacks at right moments heartseel dmg will outscale armor gained per lvl damage reduction.
HP gain and dmg gain from heartsteel stacks is is exponential function.
Meanwhile dmg reduction from armor is linear function, because the formula is made in order to make every single 1 point of armor increase your effective HP by 1% of the actual HP value(same thing goes for magic resistance and ability haste btw).
So basically heartsteel will always outscale armor at some point, you just need enough time.
And of course league matches aren't infinite but as I said, if yuo are behind, you should always be able to get enough stacks in order to take half of AD carry HP with a single auto.
now IF Riot is gonna nerf the item if it actually is that broken which i doubt it. BUT IF!!! then they will nerf anything and everything BUT just reducing items health by 100. Would completely fuck the item Low elos are left wondering why.
finally I might stop getting hate for buying this item xD
Wow, soo many views, seems like this theme is dying finaly
Bad take... Most champ that can justify building this item generally won't because it's to much of an investment and by the 4-5 item warmogs isn't what your going to be needing.
it's actually nerfed 10s wait time.
I mean wouldnt it be good on a tank buster anyway? I mean get vayne a warmogs, just auto 2 or 3 times more. Now with crit changes i can see her go full crit with a warmogs to just stay in fights longer and do shitloads of damage
Thats what I called a silver elo fabric huh
599 Reynolds Manors
Me after dealing 4k true damage with Sett W
oh yes now i know why my supports are inting
Easy nerf, hit HP *damage* scaling on champions with it across the board, because aside from tanks dealing damage, and there not being a very strong anti HP AD option, nothing here is inherently toxic.
Tanks surviving fights is literally the whole point of being a tank, HO should hold priority over resistances in most builds, and building survivability should always be a viable option as long as there’s a downside.
I swear this item is low key broken OP
Its so broken champs that dont use mana.
I build iit on Yasuo with titanic lmfao
warmog's ruin in wild rift is better tho since you heal while in combat but just alot less
Fiora
Camille
Gwen
Chogath
Darius
Garen
Vayne
you are wrong, not the drowned guy.
On-hit adcs laughing at this vid 😂
This whole video is delusional. This item is basically useless on all champs except maybe Soraka.
Yes you can argue that it's slightly better now because BotRK is slightly weaker and Cut Down and LDR don't have %hp passives anymore, but imo it still isn't worth wasting an item slot on (unless you're playing Soraka). I haven't seen anybody build this item in a long time, and there's a reason for that - it's just plain bad.
This. Either Warmog gets a really crazy update that the video forgot to mention, or I just don't get the point
It's really only good in ARAM for tanks/fighters where you are constantly doing skirmishes/TeamFights and the out of combat regen helps keep you in the fight. Outside of that, just recall. Buy Heartsteel if you want a lot of extra HP.
It's not that good of an item. lol
Karma would love that 1000HP, healing Missing HP with RW.
Nice they ruined the game again
Представляю себе лицо Доминика когда итем его имени превратился из хорошего контрплея против танков в стат-палку для пробивания брони.
Dude i want to edit like you
I didnt watch the video yet but in every single game I was they have atleast 1 person who has % health damage or a liandry or fucking Blade which is still broken against health.
Still saying it is useless
Have you forgot blade of the ruin king lindry torment isnt the only anti hp item
1. He never said liandrys was the only he said as the only viable one
2. BORK got nerfed so its worse
Warmog ? yes if I need a 6th item
it is broken on mundo sion and chogath take a bad trade heal back, especially on mundo where he is manaless scales with hp and can give a fight
Ornn is also a good user,he gets bonus HP from his passive and he is a good counter against other tanks because of his max HP damage.
@@kolden687 Don t do this on mundi his spells cancels Warmog x)
@@hydargos06 When im in a spreading false information i think is thruth competition and my opponent is a youtube commenter
@@yodagamer7744 Huh ? naaa don t see red in everything I think it's funny cause a friend of mine recently tried, it was like auto-sabotage x)
On sion and cho you already have a lot of hp, so buying more hp is worse tha buying resistances or hp scaling items like titanic or overlords
Tank meta 2.0?
I was building this on jax as 4th item bcs he has mmr and armor from ult.
Building armor and MR does literally nothing, i dont understand the items now
Garen Mains: Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power. 😎
Inb4 warmog's talon and ekko become meta. Same song, different verse.
I hate this
Bro i have been buying this since forever on soraka, it's a core item.
I've been taking it on on-hit kayle top as a 3rd or 4th item and it works (just don't forget the health runes). Let's me make more attacks in fights for that guinsoo passive too. And ms to chase enemies (that is lacking from W because im not ap)
“anyone can build warmogs” besides pyke really
just make it a Tank Exclusive or just remove it Warmogs and Heartsteel are Tank Bait items
TTK is finally going down, thank god