ayyye I'm attempting to write a book where the chosen one accidentally dies and her twin sister has to pretend to be her(I feel like this has already been done but oh well)
Sounds interesting considering if the girl was truly the chosen one, she wouldn't die. And if her twin sister succeeds even while pretending to be the chosen one, it technically does make her the chosen one. I'd read that tbh
In my novel it will be similar, there's this girl who is thought to be the chosen one, but her best friend (in the first half primarily the sidekick) finds out that actually she is the one. And another thing I added is that the second girl does not believe in prophecies and deconstructs the one concerning her, so that the readers themselves might think about the "mystery" of prophecies and if they are just constructions of the mind manipulating people who know about it in a way that it happens in the end without being right in the first place
kk, but, guys Harry Potter was an amazing Chosen Hero. Why? Is EVERYONE suddenly forgetting that crucial scene in the Half-Blood Prince where Dumbledore asks Harry if he was going to destroy Voldemort 'cause he had to, or to save the people he loved and be strong like his parents? Harry decided for himself he'd want to fight Voldemort, prophecy or not. THAT is a hero. THAT is what makes Harry Potter a good character, and a good story. Sure, he's still "the Chosen One", but a) we only find out more than half-way through the series about the prophecy, and b) he'd still at least try to kill Voldy without the prophecy. The books completey subvert this whole "fate says ya gotta and will, so ya gotta and will" deal, because Harry would STILL have chosen to fight Voldemort if he wasn't the Chosen One. EDIT: HOLY--senpai noticed me
This is a well made video. But, the Chosen One is my most hated trope for so many reasons. But the main reason being that it puts such limits on the story and characters. And I can never see a Chosen One as an "underdog." It's at the point where I automatically discount any book or movie with a Chosen One, unless there is some other aspect creative enough to compensate for that.
I should amend my statement... It's one of my favourites when done well. I think you completely have a point in the sense that it is limiting, but as I said in the video, it just shifts the priorities to character and world. As a reader and viewer, I definitely look for interesting and unique worlds, and I think this structure facilitates it. It can get repetitive though, so I definitely look outside of this trope if I want originality in structure. I also agree that The Chosen One can't really be an underdog, though when I said it in the video, I meant it more as the odds are stacked against them, and they are on the side which has been losing thus far. I also completely understand why people dislike it though, it does take most of the mystery out of the story.
Personally my favorite chosen one is my boy Jesus, although I admit that him coming back from the dead seemed like a bit of an ass-pull, I guess the authour was just a hack after all: sigh
Aglaya Majorem , little twist though. He said he'd give them the sign of Jonah and be in the grave 3 days and nights, but came roaring back after 2 nights and a single intervening day.
I don't get the hate for this trope. Yeah, sure, we know how it'll end, but most all stories have the ending wrap everything up and have your protagonist become a better person and overcome the antagonist. I think these stories are more of a journey story than an ending story. This trope should highlight the hero's *journey* to defeating the antagonist, because you already know the outcome.
I think the pittfall for this trope is often the charactarisation of the chosen one. If he/she is unlikable, doesn't really struggle or immediately succeed without much training or they are unironically heaped with praise despite not doing anything special, its quite the turnoff and where Mary Sue characters come from.
I like this trope, but I think my favorite version of it is when there’s “the chosen one” but it’s only after they fulfill their destiny that it’s revealed that someone else is actually the chosen one or that the prophecy is just some crazy person’s poetry.
Yeah, I think the trope is almost going through a renaissance period where storytellers are having a great time playing with it based off the audience's expectations!
Though JK Rowling does somewhat subvert the trope. In the sixth book, Dumbledore tells Harry that he's not the chosen one because of a preconceived fate, but because the prophecy was self-fulfilling. Because Voldemort chose Harry. The prophecy didn't name Harry as the boy who would defeat him, it just stated that someone would defeat Voldemort and if Voldemort hadn't gone after Harry, then the entire thing would have simply been moot. Divination in the HP Universe is a pretty woolly art, so the prophecy couldn't really be trusted to hold true anyway.
You need to read Revenge of the Sith. It's a wonderful book. One of the best of all SW books Universe. It made you hate the prequels more, because that story had so much potential.
I've always loved how Rowling justified the Chosen One trope with an ACTUAL (although inadvertent) choice made by the villain :) taking this into account, it's really hard to pull off this trope successfully, imo. The Matrix, for instance, is another work that I think worked really well (spoilers ahead in case you haven't seen the complete trilogy): . . . Neo was never the *only* "The One". They were stuck in a cycle of rebellion and failure of said rebellion, purposefully built by the Architect, because the Architect ultimately understood to some degree the depth of human nature, and the difference in this cycle is the choices "The One" makes as well as the teamwork involved, not simply reliance on his special abilities. Their humanity is their strongest weapon against the slavery the machines subjected them to - which is perfect because it's exactly the lack of empathy and generalised lack of humane attitudes in human's treatment of the first AI's (also read as humans were a piece of shit and more robot like than the AI's they created) that caused the war on humans themselves. Neo's "chosenoneness" is also premeditated and explained, not simply a work done by the unknown powers that be :)
I'm writing a little story using this trope for nostalgia purposes (I used to write about prophecied cats all the time haha). The main character and his brother have been kidnapped and told one of them could be part of a prophecy, and when the MC figures this out, he learns it's not a good thing. His kidnapper is just using him to save her ancestry and whatever and in order for the prophecy to be complete, many of the MC's loved ones have to die. His brother becomes "the villain" because he decides that if all these people have to die, he should just kill them all quickly so people will suffer less. He leaves his brother and the MC thinks his brother is evil for a long time before he comes to the realization that there is no clear line between good and evil, and that "bad" decisions must be made in order to get "good" results. I don't really know why I commented this but I just thought I'd share it and see people's opinions on it?
I've never really played around with the idea of a chosen one because I've worried that it sort of gives away the ending if the hero is prophesized to succeed. However, I really see your point about how making the journey interesting can make up for the destination being predetermined.I can imagine a Chosen One story could be really interesting if the hero is constantly tempted to do evil things "for the greater good," or even ignore the little people and their problems in favor of focusing on loftier goals.These little things have smaller stakes, sure, but they could be really interesting if you can signal to the audience that, while the hero will definitely beat the villain, there's a chance he'll be a bit of a villain himself when he gets there.
A story where a farmboy is recruited by a warrior and a wizard to join them on their quest. It comes to the final battle against the boss, and the warrior and wizard defeat him easily. The boy asks, "Wasn't I the chosen one?" The reply? "No, we just needed someone to carry the bags."
I'm so tired of the chosen one trope. it is so not relatable. And it gives the main character that "special snow" taste not the underdog taste. Harry Potter is an amazing story with well written characters and an incredible university and plot, yet I had 0 feelings for Harry all the way through. Why? Cause I knew he will defeat Voldemort and everything will be fine in the end cause he is "the chosen one" after all. Blah. I was busy caring for a lot of the side characters instead. 😀 I know I will fall in love with stories where there is no chosen one involved. So there is a lot more guessing toward the end, less tropes, more uniqueness and a potential unhappy ending.
Tara Wills I totally get where you're coming from. People either love or hate this trope. I happen to love it, but I also agree that there are a ton of reasons not to. I actually enjoy this for the reasons that you don't: good stories that use the trope generally focus on a whole cast of characters and world in order to compensate for a lack of mystery. If I'm looking for politics or a mystery or an MC with a lot of growth and depth then I don't pick up chosen one novels, they definitely have their time and place!
Aija Āriņa butthurt? Not at all. And if you think main characters are such black and white as "chosen ones" vs Bella Swans, I'm taking note, wont read your books if you write any. Main characters can be very interesting AND relatable without the cliche of some sort of cosmic prophesy about the main character being the special snowflake of the book. I'm quite tired of a cookie cutter story formula.
Tara Wills Looks like someone isn't special at all. But you know, we all have our "chosen one" destiny in this world.. and of course, protagonist is more special than others.. That's why there is book about him/her. You won't be able to read my books, if I ever released them (it's just hobby), because it will be in language you don't understand. And in my book there is big reason, history, hierarchy why my protagonist is chosen one, not just because (maybe protagonist made this chaos and he/she need to fix it?). And who said that protagonist who is chosen one is just black or white... It can be interesting person to.
I haven't really read a lot of books with The Chosen One trope. Maybe it is because I love crime fiction over everything else ;) But I love the show Buffy, the vampire slayer. Buffy is the chosen one, the slayer, but the way she is portrayed, problems she has to work trough and the way she manages (or tries to manage) her relationships make her a really great character. And the show is just great, too! (Sorry for all the unnecessary commas, I'm Polish and we use a lot of them everywhere :) )
I literally just found your channel and am so happy to have found a "kindred spirit" who likes YA in theory but hates most of what is on the market nowadays, and for the right reasons, too. So... thanks a bunch for voicing your opinion and for putting it in words. I was wondering if you'd be interested in a little animated intro?
Saku Yuu Thank you so much! It's nice to know there are kindred spirits out there!! Unfortunately I'm only doing this as a hobby for now and can't afford to pay for an intro, but I appreciate the offer!!
Jordan Harvey Ahaha, sorry for not making that clear. I meant, I would make that intro for free, as a little gift. If you still don't want that, it's cool.
I agree! I made the decision a couple of week ago to stop reading YA after I read some shit books. It feels a shame but I find it hard to tell the good ones from the bad ones. What are your favourite YA books?
This is one of my favorite trope. I just don'y like the chosen one has to be always the main protagonist or one person. I would like to see the chosen one be two or more characters and even supporting characters being the chosen one.
Really, I like chosen one stories when the character isn't actually prophesized to win, and it's more like people saw greatness in them or they ended up with the responsibility by circumstance. Technically in many adventure books, all main characters are chosen ones because they play the biggest ACTIVE role in completing the journey, whether or not they are recognised or expected to (not counting the people that might be working the background/off scene). The biggest thing for me is, they CAN be special. They can be a prodigy for all I care. But not everyone should believe in them. Not all the people that don't are bad. Not everyone cares about their goals. They won't defeat the villain with raw talent (must be honed, and assistance throughout the story WILL still be needed), and they can easily die from a multitude of things and be matched by even the most "normal" of people (just like anyone else). Note that there will always be people with ability even they can't touch; they just don't help because they don't care of the cause, they have other things to deal with, etc. Many people probably shouldn't even know who they are, or do but don't care. Not of jealousy, but because it doesn't matter. Plus, make sure the main character has faults and weaknesses that they may never overcome that makes the reality of them losing a real and heavy possibility, even if ability-wise, they have reached a point that they can win. Lastly, this shouldn't be the only highly important goal, and they can't dab their foot in achieving each one. When big things go to crap, whole nations pull together. You can't overthrow a king or defeat a god or generations of dragons with a chosen MC and a couple of friends because the world- even their small part of it- extends farther than their immediate area, and there will always be something they aren't able to stop that they are praying others can stop instead. If it's not big enough for the need of more than one group to pull together, the chosen one should be far less hyped and not destined or literally chosen, but someone who takes on the task because if not, someone else will in their place (and the story will be about them). This way, they won't be made over-important and won't somehow end up leading anything they touch. They'll need help from many, making the story a culmination of effort to reach a greater goal, but seen from the perspective of one. The chances of death and success are even, if success even gets to be so likely. And it feels less "we're following your story because you're the only one that can" vs "we're following you're story because you're one of the ones that will".
One of my favorites is Richard from the Sword of Truth series. He's "the chosen one" and we see this on many occasions, and he both accepts and denies it in the same instance. He believes that we are all part of our own destiny, and that he can carve out his own path. But he also accepts some of the special things fate and birth have thrown at him (eventually, dang he's stubborn!).
The tv show is okay, if you take it as a tv show. Usually when tv shows are based around books I let them be in one of two categories: 1) Based on the book and closely done to the book (GoT) and 2) With the idea of the book but in their own style. It's #2. If shows try to do both then it's usually a fail. The books themselves are pretty good. They get a little strange near the 3/4 mark of the series but it's still a good read.
@Jordan Willis. I think the trope can be played 28th and work, but there is always the temptation to use it straight. Harry Potter used it well by saying that prophecies are just estimations, not 100% true. The latter tends to destroy tension, while the former leaves the possibility of failure open.
I am somewhat irritated of the chosen one trope, as it pretty much spoils who's going to win in the end. However, I can enjoy the trope, if the chosen one struggles, and falls in despair before he eventually defeats the villain, he sees his companions die one-by-one and he keeps making mistakes, trials and errors, we know he's going to claim victory in the end, but we also know that he struggled through a lot before he eventually defeated the villain, we know it was not an easy journey for him, and his journey ending with victory just makes me all the more happy, because he suffered through a lot and it's finally time to give him a break. So basically, my opinion on the trope is it's the journey that matters, not the destination yada yada all of that stuff Basically what you said near the end
I'm wondering wether Frodo is a chosen one. He's not specially gifted AND he CHOSE to take the ring when it really came down to it. I feel like he is treated like a chosen one from then on though, but can he really be a chosen one, if he had the choice to be
I wouldn't say he is a chosen one, he volunteers for the task and anyone could have done it. Bilbo was actually meant to do the task. The wizards are technically the chosen ones, since they were the ones put on middle-earth to stop Sauron. However Frodo is called that by others, mainly Gandalf, as a form of encouragement to carry on with the quest. I would say JRR Tolkien flip-flops the idea of a chosen one.
It's interesting how Tolkien handled that. He already had a chosen one in that story, Aragorn, son of Arathorn, heir to the yada yada yada. And then he had this little character with absolute no lineage in a world where even Pipin and Merry have some kind of one. It's like a parody, Frodo from the shire. Not even Bilbo's son. He's the less indicated for the mission. Bilbo could do it better, he already did it. Merry is a Brandigamo, they supposed to know how to ride horses, and Pipin is a Tuk, a heir of the most important warrior of the hobbits. Even Sam with his strong nature looks most suitable. But Frodo is none of this. He need to discover the chosen one in him. I think when he talked with Galadriel the thing becomes obvious to him but until the last moment he wasn't sure if he was or not the one for that job. I think he's a chosen one. But no the only. Merry was a chosen one. He charged in the Camps of Pelennor! WTF! And Pippin, who saved Denethor's lineage. And Eowyn, who killed the nazgul with the most perfect line ever wrote "I'm no man." (I'm not crying! You are!) Every one in that damn book was a sort of chosen one. All of them was tied with this doom and that's the beauty of Tolkien's characters. All of them had the choice, but none of them really had it. They were all meant to be.
He’s a “literally” chosen one. Destiny didn’t chose him, Gandalf did (well he volunteered to take the ring, but Gandalf shoved him out the door). So we’re not sure if he’ll succeed and sort of doesn’t. The job still gets done, but he himself doesn’t technically do it.
Hey Jordan, I really liked this video and I love your channel because of the quality content it provides. I am a big fan of YA, but in order to distinguish between good and bad stories (since almost everyone wants to be a YA writer nowadays), we need to look critically at the stories, and I think you're doing a very good job. What I dislike about the Chosen One trope is that that person almost always has the advantage over other characters (either it's a special gift, power, or an inner strength- which, by the way, is very difficult to create only by willpower), but I still love it in YA because it helps make sense of the whole universe and ensures that the protagonist is irreplaceable- like you said, no one else can save the world except them; if anyone could do it, then the struggle of the protagonist wouldn't really make sense. So, I hope you go on with trope videos because they are really on point :)
I'm absolutely sure there's gonna be a twist. It's a GRR thing. He wants us to fixate on the Azor Ahai, wether we think it's Jon or Daenerys, or whoever else, and then he's going to kill them. I'm sure of it.
I just found your videos and they have been so helpful! I have a chosen one in my book but they are born right at the end. I always loved the show How I Met Your Mother so part of the way through the future father of the chosen one is discovered (although he doesn’t know it). There are several women in the story who could possibly be the mother. However this is a subplot.
I can agree I do like/dislike this trope I’m making my own story where my main story has two main protagonist and they are the chosen two and I’m making sure they are escort relatable and not plain. I live your trope vids keep up the good work 👍👍👍
Hey Jordan! I just want to say that I've watched a few of your videos and tell you I think you're doing a wonderful job! Both insightful and critical your opinions on a lot of the plagues of contemporary literature as well as their assets have captured my interest and compelled me to let you know that I've enjoyed them. I especially love the detail you go into in a lot of your reviews, particularly why you didn't like things in the way it relates to what you want to see out of a writer and genre. I also am a fan of your honesty despite not always having popular opinions. I'm actually an author and am looking for a critical eye such as yours. I don't see any means of private contact so I just came to the comments as I see you're pretty interactive with them (which is also something that deserves praise.) I'm looking for a beta reader for my novel and was hoping you'd be one of the voices I might consult with on finishing it. If you'd have the time and our interested feel free to get me your info! If not, well, I meant the compliments with all sincerity and hope they might help validate your efforts here. All the best! -Ian
Hi Ian, thank you!! Could you tell me a bit more about your book? I don't have a ton of time right now, but I'd be willing to consider it if it sounds intriguing :)
Jordan Harvey It’s set about 75 years in the future and details the human experiments of an agency pioneering a bioengineered nanotechnology. These microscopic robots when introduced to the body can alter someone on a fundamental level. It can control them, and change them. Naturally, the prose explores what it means to be ensouled, to be human, and thusly; to be flawed, as well as what it means to remove the flaws that make us up. I encourage you to read through my first chapter if you think you need help making your mind up: you can find that here: iannights.com/chapter-1/ If you would be interested feel free to get in touch via the contact page on that site!
Personally I prefer the Chosen One trope when it's more of a deconstruction. The trope gets a lot more substance when it's looked at from that perspective. Neon Genesis Evangelion is a good example.
The chosen one is the trope I hate the most in fiction. It is the very definition of lazy writing. Plus, these characters are usually so good at everything that they are hard for a klutz like me to relate to. Lol. With that said though, I love your Trope Talk videos, which I am just now getting caught up on. Your arguments for or against a certain trope are always thoughtful and interesting. You give great examples to back up your points, and you are not afraid to go against the current, which is a breath of fresh air. Thank you for all of your content!
I love this trope but I do sometimes feel like it gives the message that only certain people are special but I still loved books like Harry Potter and Percy Jackson
If you haven't yet you should read Truthwitch by Susan Dennard. It's Currently one of my favorite series so far even though only 2 out of the 5 books have been released along with one novela.
The best use of the Chose One trope that I've see comes from Tales of Symphonia. It's a JRPG, not a book. It just does a lot of unique things with it. Obviously I can't say too much about it as it ruins plot twists for anyone here who cares about that, but I can say two things that it does that happen very early on that I liked. One was that the main character was NOT the Chosen One. Instead it was one of his companions. Another is that he Chosen One is completely able to fail. They say early on that the previous Chose Ones (I think it was either five or eight) failed. And it just continues to subvert a lot of tropes we see when it comes to Chosen Ones. I wish I could see this kind of thing more often.
Thanks. I just can't help but think of this game whenever I see the words "Chosen One." XD I could honestly continue to gush about how it subverts this trope, but I don't know whether you're actually interested in games at all and don't want to spoil just in case.
I don't like the Chosen One trope at all :D the reason for that might be that I like characters that actually choose to be part of the conflict and choose to involve in it rather than just being „destined“ to do so. Characters who achieve their goals through hard work rather than birthright. Also I like fantasy worlds where no one is strong enough to change everything. That seems more real to me :)
My undying love for the star wars prequels questions why some people must disavow any merit those films may have even when using them as a positive example of something
I like the different takes there can be on the Chosen One in different stories. Harry Potter didn't ask for it and was bascially Chosen by the Villain, who did feel beholden to the prophecy. An argument could be even made that Voldemort thought he was the Chosen One of his story. In Star Wars, all the expectations and praises that were heaped on Anakin got to his head and made him arrogant and prone to hubris. Being the Chosen One screwed him up. The LEGO Movie took the piss out of the concept of there being a chosen one when the wise old mentor admits that he made the prophecy up. Emmett is as non-special as you can get. But then it turns out that everyone can be special in their own unique way. Katniss Everdeen becomes the Chosen One unwillingly when she defies the Capitol and thus becomes a symbol of resitance. All that despite the fact that her actions were purely motivated by survival and to keep her loved ones save. Katniss never had any intensions of bringing Panem's tryanny down but political circumstances put her on a spot she never asked for.
It's all about execution for me. Some writers screw up the most creative ideas, while some others make miracles out of the oldest tropes. Chosen one isn't bad as long as the story is refreshing enough to surprise me. But I have to say, most of them are just badly executed, with plots looked super familiar and cardboard cut out cliche characters that annoy me.
I'm planning on writing something where the chosen one goes on this massive quest where they have to kill the god of Hell, before discovering that they are the re-incarnation of the god of hell.
Do you think you could review or just read I Hunt Killers? I personally feel this book is underappreciated. It's about Jasper "Jazz" Dent who is the son of the world's most infamous serial killer and is raised to think like and become a serial killer. Bodies are piling up again in the quiet town a few years after his dad's arrest. Jazz joins the police in a hunt for the new serial killer in hopes to prove he is not like his dad.
I like this trope as well. But today, as I am aging, I was becoming less fond of this trope, especially if the books are for YA, NA, and Adult audiences. As an older audience, I demanded a logical explanation for the protagonist to be chosen, for it targets YA audiences. Because you know, sometimes, the author wanted only to expand their world instead of really dig the plot. And nowadays, some of the chosen one trope's author tended to ... Prolonged the ending for their novels. Once they said it will be trilogy, then it expanded to spin offs, crossovers, and even direct trilogy sequel. For me, as a reader, that's exhausting. Really.
My problem with when people use this trope is that most of them use it as a way of 'Tell' instead of 'Show', mainly as a shortcut to try to pump their protagonist up in the readers mind. The original 'Matrix trilogy' is more or less a perfect use/showcase of the chosen one idea. With Potter, J.K flipped it on its head where she's not telling the reader that Harry is exceptional, instead the population of his world are the ones that desperately want to believe that he is, making him close to a messiah character in their heads while he (and we the audience) know that he isn't; at least not in the way that they want to believe.
Eh. Mixed feelings about this trope. On the one hand, I am a die-hard fan of HP and LOTR and Star Wars (nerd for life). On the other, it would be nice to have multiple "Chosen Ones". One to fight, one to provide knowledge, and one to provide magical power. That's one of the premises of my Fantasy series (aspiring Fantasy author). Adria, the middle sister, is the warrior. Celestina, the eldest sister, is the sorceress. Anastasia, the youngest of the three, is the scholar/translator of the tome of the Light (their "deity/creator"). I am almost finished with the first book (took me a full year). It is told from Adria's viewpoint, and the sequel will be told from Celestina's viewpoint. The third will be told from Anastasia, and the final one will be told from all three viewpoints. Also, Ms. Harvey, I recommend some Facebook pages. Namely: Writer's Unite, Fantasy Authors/Fanatics/Kosher Critique Group. Excellent pages that I have joined and have been a member of for a few years. Loving the videos (especially the ones about Fantasy). A trope that I would like to hear you talk about: Dark Lords/Powers. What, in your opinion, makes a good "Dark Lord"? A Sauron type (a Power/entity) or a Voldemort type (human with magical powers)? Or, one that is turned because of a tragic backstory (Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker)? Please and thank you. :).
Finished the manuscript. Now, just waiting for my editor to come up with a contract. Then, around the first of the month, the first editing session will begin. :).
Wait, how would destroying the Sith bring balance to the force? The dark side is a side of the force! If the Sith are destroyed, the force is unbalanced because there’s only the light side!
If I remember correctly a fan theory used to claim Darth Vader's Jedi-cide leads to complete balance in the force from a strictly _numerical_ perspective. Two Jedi: Obi Wan, Yoda. Two Sith: Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader.
Gabrielle Parker There is no "light side". There is the force, then there is the dark side of it. The force is a part of nature, and the dark side is chaos and imbalance.
Immortal Stranger my understanding from just watching the OT was that the "dark side" was more just a figure of speech meaning a fall from grace or using the powers for bad intentions.
I'm personally kinda sick of this trope, and I do not like it. What about all of the people who work themselves to death to get better? That is a still fascinating journey story that's more relatable and you can feel more for them. You don't have to be special or gifted or chosen to do great things and I think that is a more inspiring and meaningful tale. I guess I feel like Chosen One stories kind of make me hear the, "Oh well you're just gifted," that drives me up the wall, like it's saying you can only do this if the universe favors you, or that hard work means nothing because you have to be special, which are messages I don't like. Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter, but I didn't feel too connected to him because he was a Chosen One. Just my thoughts.
Harry Potter is a terrible example of this trope. The guy wasn't your common Chosen One trope because we learn he IS Prophecised to kill or be killed by Voldemort a bit too late in the series, and by then we aren't surprised because we already expect this to be the case, with Harry being the main protagonist, Voldemort being the antagonist and the two having a history of one trying (and failing) to kill the other. If anything, the addition of a Prophecy was unnecessary and it really becomes more of a plot device to keep Harry getting himself in trouble. Actually, the prophecy does seem just an excuse to give our relatively average dude an excuse to be in the thick of things. It was a bit lazy from JK Rowlings part. Instead of making it out to be some very unique ritual of Harry's mother that made him special... nope, Prophecy. Did Voldemort really need an excuse to kill the Potters? Why not to make a point and just that?
He was "The Boy Who Lived" from the start, and everyone in the Wizarding world was either ga-ga over him (especially in Sorcerer's Stone) or hyper-critical of him when it turned out he didn't have a halo and float six inches off the ground. It's pretty clear that his Destiny is inextricably linked to Voldemort's from the beginning--his special mark, the fact that his wand is "brother" to Voldemort's, and so on. The "Prophecy" only sealed the deal (though technically it applied equally well to Neville Longbottom).
I tend to hate this one myself. Obviously I think it can be done well, or I wouldn't agree with you about Avatar, but it is _way_ overused and easy to screw up. I also think it's a bit of a narcissistic trope, built around exceptionalism, and (usually)... fascism. Hear me out: I first recognized this playing the demo to Mass Effect 2. When Commander Shepherd is resurrected, and praise/thanks are immediately heaped upon him/her, and everyone talks about what a great amazing leader he/she is. This is my earliest exposure to the franchise, mind you, and I'm instantly mobbed by an encirclement of brown-nosers. Even the people who'd never met Shepherd wouldn't shut up about it. I couldn't help thinking "this series is supposed to be built around moral decisions, right?" the fact that my version of Shepherd could have been anyone didn't seem to matter at all. This got me thinking: the "chosen one" trope is more often than not a Christian allegory, up to and including a resurrection. _However_ they're almost always built around the exaltation of deified militaristic leaders too. Commander Shepherd, from Mass Effect; John Connor, from Terminator; Neo, from the Matrix; Aang, from Avatar; even Harry Potter - they all lead armies. Even when we account for the inclusions of Nazi stand-in villains, and the moral righteousness of the protagonists (by modern standards), It's not hard to see how this marriage of Christianity and military might-makes-right could be problematic, or at least has problematic roots. In the real world armies who give themselves over religiously to the "one-true chosen leader, ordained by the heavens" don't fare very well, and neither do their people. Think of the WWII era emperor of Japan. His people followed him into oblivion because propaganda and custom said he was a god. The specific paradoxical fusion of Christianity and militarism has informed a number of questionable policies both official and unofficial, in The United States of America, manifest destiny being among the most blatant. I understand it's a trope most often used in fantasy, where the point is escapism, (and action is more fun) but I'm wary of giving certain stories a free pass for not having real world parallels, especially when they do have real world parallels, and those parallels are _terrifying._ I sometimes take issue with more literal examples of the "chosen one" trope when the story avoids answering the question of who they're supposed to have been chosen _by._ Lastly I think the protagonists in these stories can sometimes lack agency.
ooh this is a really good comment. I think people deep down would love for the whole chosen by God, army of the light leader thing to work, so that's reflected on the chosen one tropes. In reality, not even the most well meaning ideologies produce chosen one's following that are good.
Well thank you. Yes I don't think many people have thought about the implications of this trope and what its persistent popularity might mean for human psychology, maybe a deconstructionist narrative is in order.
@Tom Ffrench While this is an extremely magnanimous disagreement, I think it's worth considering the possibility that fictional concepts having no direct real world parallels have potential to be dangerous. Teaching propagandistic or dissonant messages. Like: imagine if I wrote a story about a fantasy race where all the creatures within it inevitably become bloodthirsty lunatics when they reach adulthood, but before then are all but indistinguishable from civilized people. So the plausible argument is to wipe them all off the face of the Earth regardless of age. In their fantasy universe, assuming this is true, and that there are no other orchestrating factors at play, there is no reason to believe there are any alternatives, but *I* have created a scenerio that has no other alternatives, narratively, and which provides metacommentary that only has troubling real world connotations. Very few stories are written without some purpose beyond entertainment, and considering they only contribute to our culture through their relationship to it, I think being cognizent of the message your story sends regardless of intent is necessary. Also I think Fascism _mostly_ involves religion because fascists are usually deified, often through literal self-declarations, and occasionally preemptively by their supporters. Absent either of these outcomes they are treated as gods as a matter of course anyway.
When you say "people aren't tired of chosen ones because Harry Potter" you seem to forget one thing: Harry Potter wasn't always "the chosen one". Yes, it was obvious from the start that he would have to face Voldemort in the end, but the prophecy isn't revealed until the fifth book (only foreshadowed in the third) and Harry isn't specifically refered to as "the chosen one" until the sixth book. By then, the readers had already grown to love the story, however - when Rowling did all that prophecy stuff in OotP, I actually thought "no, not this again". I'm sick and tired of the chosen one trope. This is actually one of few things I dislike about the Harry Potter series. She didn't have to include that. It was only included so to put further weight on Harry's shoulders, but it didn't serve any 'new' purpose. That's why using Harry Potter as an argument for that people still like this trope isn't a strong argument - I'd say, people love Harry Potter DESPITE of this trope, not because of it.
For me why the “chosen one” thing doesn’t bother me in HP (with the prophecy) is that it didn’t necessarily have to be him, it could’ve been Neville. Him being the chosen one results from Voldermort’s choice. Also knowing that if he had chosen Neville he probably would have won makes it more interesting.
I'm planning on writing a thing where the chosen one goes on this quest to kill the god of Hell, before discovering that they are in fact the re-incarnation of the god of Hell. (Something tells me that this is a bad idea but oh well.)
I feel that this trope can often suck the creativity out of a story and seem too artificial. The author wants an unlikely hero, someone who isn't a great general or statesman to lead the forces of light. Instead of working out an in universe way for an unlikely person to become the leader they make a prophecy and leave it at that. Instead of focusing on making the hero's personality unsuited to the task, the author instead makes them low man on the totem pole, then uses the prophecy. Thing is we know this trope and most times the prophecy is 100% right. Another reason I dislike it is that prophecy heavily indicates the universe is deterministic. If that is true then the outcome of the fight between good and evil is predetermined and nothing anyone does can change it. It also often goes hand in hand with having everything be on a big cycle that is constantly turning through set events. But if that is true then the events of the book aren't that important anyway. If every thousand years a hero must rise up to reseal the dark lord, then the events of the story aren't some big unprecedented event that could change the entire world. They're just regular Tuesday. Repetition doesn't make an event seem bigger, it makes it seem smaller. Something new is more exciting then something we've seen a thousand times. It undermines the tension of the story. I do think Harry Potter had a good bit about how prophecies are estimations of what may happen and often don't come true, but it still feels like Rowling could've gotten rid of the prophecy and had Harry step up due to peer pressure and his history with the dark lord. I think she also did make a good point that Voldemort's theatrical obsession with the prophecy was a major flaw, such as when he manipulated the Tri Wizard tournament. In short Rowling plays with the prophecy and shows how slavish devotion to it hurts the dark lord.
Matt Morehouse I do agree with some of your points and I completely understand what you're saying and why you don't like the trope. I sometimes don't like it. I think I have a bit of a soft spot for it though, as some of my favourite stories growing up play around with this trope, and I still think it puts an emphasis on creativity rather than squandering it.
I apologize if this is a bit out of topic but your videos are awesome and very fun to watch! I was wondering if you offer beta reading services? Thanks!
I've got one idea where the "chosen one" is just a little girl, and her dad decides "fuck that, I'm gonna take down the Evil Empire (TM) myself so she can have a happy childhood."
Harry Potter is worst chosen one ever written like he survived Voldi's curse as a baby and kicked his butt in book 1, 2 and 4 through deus ex machina we don't need to be told that he's the one who's supposed to kill Voldi strating book 5 we know it, thanks captain obvious. No seriously, this revealation sounded like a parody when I red it.
Nah, Jesus is much worse: he's *way* overpowered for the setting, and the sequel (which thankfully never went into production) is a completely one-sided ritual destruction of the world where Jesus just shows up at the end and Godzilla-stomps the bad guys with ease. No conflict, no drama, no relatable character flaws... :)
I've been binge watching your videos and I had a super odd question! If I summarized my book, would you tell me if it sounds okay? I've been a writer for maybe five years and I've never had another writer give me feedback. I'm super nervous to ask this and I know its sounds stupid but it would help me so much.
Chosen one can be utilized really well with good writing! My favorite use of the trope is Avatar: The Last Airbender
ayyye I'm attempting to write a book where the chosen one accidentally dies and her twin sister has to pretend to be her(I feel like this has already been done but oh well)
Mercy Joy I'd read the hell out of that
Sounds interesting considering if the girl was truly the chosen one, she wouldn't die. And if her twin sister succeeds even while pretending to be the chosen one, it technically does make her the chosen one.
I'd read that tbh
do you read manga? Read Basara, it's pretty similar!
Mercy Joy go for it!
In my novel it will be similar, there's this girl who is thought to be the chosen one, but her best friend (in the first half primarily the sidekick) finds out that actually she is the one. And another thing I added is that the second girl does not believe in prophecies and deconstructs the one concerning her, so that the readers themselves might think about the "mystery" of prophecies and if they are just constructions of the mind manipulating people who know about it in a way that it happens in the end without being right in the first place
kk, but, guys
Harry Potter was an amazing Chosen Hero. Why? Is EVERYONE suddenly forgetting that crucial scene in the Half-Blood Prince where Dumbledore asks Harry if he was going to destroy Voldemort 'cause he had to, or to save the people he loved and be strong like his parents? Harry decided for himself he'd want to fight Voldemort, prophecy or not. THAT is a hero. THAT is what makes Harry Potter a good character, and a good story. Sure, he's still "the Chosen One", but a) we only find out more than half-way through the series about the prophecy, and b) he'd still at least try to kill Voldy without the prophecy. The books completey subvert this whole "fate says ya gotta and will, so ya gotta and will" deal, because Harry would STILL have chosen to fight Voldemort if he wasn't the Chosen One.
EDIT: HOLY--senpai noticed me
This is a well made video. But, the Chosen One is my most hated trope for so many reasons. But the main reason being that it puts such limits on the story and characters. And I can never see a Chosen One as an "underdog." It's at the point where I automatically discount any book or movie with a Chosen One, unless there is some other aspect creative enough to compensate for that.
I should amend my statement... It's one of my favourites when done well. I think you completely have a point in the sense that it is limiting, but as I said in the video, it just shifts the priorities to character and world. As a reader and viewer, I definitely look for interesting and unique worlds, and I think this structure facilitates it. It can get repetitive though, so I definitely look outside of this trope if I want originality in structure. I also agree that The Chosen One can't really be an underdog, though when I said it in the video, I meant it more as the odds are stacked against them, and they are on the side which has been losing thus far. I also completely understand why people dislike it though, it does take most of the mystery out of the story.
But if Bilbo baggins could be seen as a chosen one (chosen by Gandalf, that is) he's an underdog basically throughout the entire story.
Finally a positive look on this trope
Personally my favorite chosen one is my boy Jesus, although I admit that him coming back from the dead seemed like a bit of an ass-pull, I guess the authour was just a hack after all: sigh
The thing though is while he was alive he did reiterate that he was going to die and rise from the dead. They all expected that he would do just that.
Aglaya Majorem , little twist though. He said he'd give them the sign of Jonah and be in the grave 3 days and nights, but came roaring back after 2 nights and a single intervening day.
i'm glad christ defeated death and sin, so now that i have accepted him as savior, my sins do not conquer me. peavce be with you. :)
I don't get the hate for this trope. Yeah, sure, we know how it'll end, but most all stories have the ending wrap everything up and have your protagonist become a better person and overcome the antagonist. I think these stories are more of a journey story than an ending story. This trope should highlight the hero's *journey* to defeating the antagonist, because you already know the outcome.
I feel ya! I do understand why some people don't like it, but I personally really love this trope if it's done well!
I think the pittfall for this trope is often the charactarisation of the chosen one. If he/she is unlikable, doesn't really struggle or immediately succeed without much training or they are unironically heaped with praise despite not doing anything special, its quite the turnoff and where Mary Sue characters come from.
I like this trope, but I think my favorite version of it is when there’s “the chosen one” but it’s only after they fulfill their destiny that it’s revealed that someone else is actually the chosen one or that the prophecy is just some crazy person’s poetry.
Yeah, I think the trope is almost going through a renaissance period where storytellers are having a great time playing with it based off the audience's expectations!
Like percy jackson!
My favourite chosen one is Percy . Mainly because in the end he WASN'T the one to kill the main baddy but Luke was
Though JK Rowling does somewhat subvert the trope. In the sixth book, Dumbledore tells Harry that he's not the chosen one because of a preconceived fate, but because the prophecy was self-fulfilling. Because Voldemort chose Harry. The prophecy didn't name Harry as the boy who would defeat him, it just stated that someone would defeat Voldemort and if Voldemort hadn't gone after Harry, then the entire thing would have simply been moot. Divination in the HP Universe is a pretty woolly art, so the prophecy couldn't really be trusted to hold true anyway.
My first real exposure to Star Wars was the novelization of Episode I and I regret nothing. I actually really liked it.
Chow Yee Lee Is the novel similar to the movie, or did they make it better in the book?
The story was the same but the dialogue seemed less cringey. Also, midi-chlorians don't seem stupid at all if you establish it in the beginning.
You need to read Revenge of the Sith. It's a wonderful book. One of the best of all SW books Universe. It made you hate the prequels more, because that story had so much potential.
I've always loved how Rowling justified the Chosen One trope with an ACTUAL (although inadvertent) choice made by the villain :) taking this into account, it's really hard to pull off this trope successfully, imo. The Matrix, for instance, is another work that I think worked really well (spoilers ahead in case you haven't seen the complete trilogy):
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Neo was never the *only* "The One". They were stuck in a cycle of rebellion and failure of said rebellion, purposefully built by the Architect, because the Architect ultimately understood to some degree the depth of human nature, and the difference in this cycle is the choices "The One" makes as well as the teamwork involved, not simply reliance on his special abilities. Their humanity is their strongest weapon against the slavery the machines subjected them to - which is perfect because it's exactly the lack of empathy and generalised lack of humane attitudes in human's treatment of the first AI's (also read as humans were a piece of shit and more robot like than the AI's they created) that caused the war on humans themselves. Neo's "chosenoneness" is also premeditated and explained, not simply a work done by the unknown powers that be :)
I'm writing a little story using this trope for nostalgia purposes (I used to write about prophecied cats all the time haha). The main character and his brother have been kidnapped and told one of them could be part of a prophecy, and when the MC figures this out, he learns it's not a good thing. His kidnapper is just using him to save her ancestry and whatever and in order for the prophecy to be complete, many of the MC's loved ones have to die. His brother becomes "the villain" because he decides that if all these people have to die, he should just kill them all quickly so people will suffer less. He leaves his brother and the MC thinks his brother is evil for a long time before he comes to the realization that there is no clear line between good and evil, and that "bad" decisions must be made in order to get "good" results. I don't really know why I commented this but I just thought I'd share it and see people's opinions on it?
Yes, yes, yes, yes and YES💕
AMAZING!
I've never really played around with the idea of a chosen one because I've worried that it sort of gives away the ending if the hero is prophesized to succeed. However, I really see your point about how making the journey interesting can make up for the destination being predetermined.I can imagine a Chosen One story could be really interesting if the hero is constantly tempted to do evil things "for the greater good," or even ignore the little people and their problems in favor of focusing on loftier goals.These little things have smaller stakes, sure, but they could be really interesting if you can signal to the audience that, while the hero will definitely beat the villain, there's a chance he'll be a bit of a villain himself when he gets there.
Kevin Torres Love it!! Yes! I think there are definite downsides to this trope, but there's also a ton of room to play.
A story where a farmboy is recruited by a warrior and a wizard to join them on their quest. It comes to the final battle against the boss, and the warrior and wizard defeat him easily. The boy asks, "Wasn't I the chosen one?" The reply? "No, we just needed someone to carry the bags."
Haha
I'm so tired of the chosen one trope. it is so not relatable. And it gives the main character that "special snow" taste not the underdog taste.
Harry Potter is an amazing story with well written characters and an incredible university and plot, yet I had 0 feelings for Harry all the way through. Why? Cause I knew he will defeat Voldemort and everything will be fine in the end cause he is "the chosen one" after all. Blah. I was busy caring for a lot of the side characters instead. 😀
I know I will fall in love with stories where there is no chosen one involved. So there is a lot more guessing toward the end, less tropes, more uniqueness and a potential unhappy ending.
incredible universe * aaah no more UA-cam comments while on my phone. 😀
Tara Wills I totally get where you're coming from. People either love or hate this trope. I happen to love it, but I also agree that there are a ton of reasons not to. I actually enjoy this for the reasons that you don't: good stories that use the trope generally focus on a whole cast of characters and world in order to compensate for a lack of mystery. If I'm looking for politics or a mystery or an MC with a lot of growth and depth then I don't pick up chosen one novels, they definitely have their time and place!
Idk why people feel buthurted about this trope! You want to read about boring, relatable character like everyone else is? I don't think so.
Aija Āriņa butthurt? Not at all. And if you think main characters are such black and white as "chosen ones" vs Bella Swans, I'm taking note, wont read your books if you write any. Main characters can be very interesting AND relatable without the cliche of some sort of cosmic prophesy about the main character being the special snowflake of the book.
I'm quite tired of a cookie cutter story formula.
Tara Wills Looks like someone isn't special at all. But you know, we all have our "chosen one" destiny in this world.. and of course, protagonist is more special than others.. That's why there is book about him/her.
You won't be able to read my books, if I ever released them (it's just hobby), because it will be in language you don't understand. And in my book there is big reason, history, hierarchy why my protagonist is chosen one, not just because (maybe protagonist made this chaos and he/she need to fix it?). And who said that protagonist who is chosen one is just black or white... It can be interesting person to.
I haven't really read a lot of books with The Chosen One trope. Maybe it is because I love crime fiction over everything else ;) But I love the show Buffy, the vampire slayer. Buffy is the chosen one, the slayer, but the way she is portrayed, problems she has to work trough and the way she manages (or tries to manage) her relationships make her a really great character. And the show is just great, too! (Sorry for all the unnecessary commas, I'm Polish and we use a lot of them everywhere :) )
Great example!
I literally just found your channel and am so happy to have found a "kindred spirit" who likes YA in theory but hates most of what is on the market nowadays, and for the right reasons, too. So... thanks a bunch for voicing your opinion and for putting it in words. I was wondering if you'd be interested in a little animated intro?
Saku Yuu Thank you so much! It's nice to know there are kindred spirits out there!! Unfortunately I'm only doing this as a hobby for now and can't afford to pay for an intro, but I appreciate the offer!!
Jordan Harvey Ahaha, sorry for not making that clear. I meant, I would make that intro for free, as a little gift. If you still don't want that, it's cool.
Saku Yuu Oh my gosh, I'm definitely interested!! Thank you so much that's so sweet!
Sorry for answering late, would you mind writing to me on K00212837 (at) student (dot) lit (dot) ie so we can discuss what you would like?
I agree! I made the decision a couple of week ago to stop reading YA after I read some shit books. It feels a shame but I find it hard to tell the good ones from the bad ones. What are your favourite YA books?
This is one of my favorite trope. I just don'y like the chosen one has to be always the main protagonist or one person. I would like to see the chosen one be two or more characters and even supporting characters being the chosen one.
I like your tropes videos. I'm addicted to TV tropes and it's so nice to hear another person's perspective on it.
Thank you! Glad you like them :)
One of my favorite books growing up, UnLunDun (China Mieville) did a great job of playing with my expections on the "chosen one" trope.
This is the kind of content I've been searching for on UA-cam. Thank you!
Really, I like chosen one stories when the character isn't actually prophesized to win, and it's more like people saw greatness in them or they ended up with the responsibility by circumstance. Technically in many adventure books, all main characters are chosen ones because they play the biggest ACTIVE role in completing the journey, whether or not they are recognised or expected to (not counting the people that might be working the background/off scene).
The biggest thing for me is, they CAN be special. They can be a prodigy for all I care. But not everyone should believe in them. Not all the people that don't are bad. Not everyone cares about their goals. They won't defeat the villain with raw talent (must be honed, and assistance throughout the story WILL still be needed), and they can easily die from a multitude of things and be matched by even the most "normal" of people (just like anyone else). Note that there will always be people with ability even they can't touch; they just don't help because they don't care of the cause, they have other things to deal with, etc.
Many people probably shouldn't even know who they are, or do but don't care. Not of jealousy, but because it doesn't matter. Plus, make sure the main character has faults and weaknesses that they may never overcome that makes the reality of them losing a real and heavy possibility, even if ability-wise, they have reached a point that they can win. Lastly, this shouldn't be the only highly important goal, and they can't dab their foot in achieving each one. When big things go to crap, whole nations pull together. You can't overthrow a king or defeat a god or generations of dragons with a chosen MC and a couple of friends because the world- even their small part of it- extends farther than their immediate area, and there will always be something they aren't able to stop that they are praying others can stop instead. If it's not big enough for the need of more than one group to pull together, the chosen one should be far less hyped and not destined or literally chosen, but someone who takes on the task because if not, someone else will in their place (and the story will be about them).
This way, they won't be made over-important and won't somehow end up leading anything they touch. They'll need help from many, making the story a culmination of effort to reach a greater goal, but seen from the perspective of one. The chances of death and success are even, if success even gets to be so likely. And it feels less "we're following your story because you're the only one that can" vs "we're following you're story because you're one of the ones that will".
Your trope talks are my favourite. SO informative!
Thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoy them :)
One of my favorites is Richard from the Sword of Truth series. He's "the chosen one" and we see this on many occasions, and he both accepts and denies it in the same instance. He believes that we are all part of our own destiny, and that he can carve out his own path. But he also accepts some of the special things fate and birth have thrown at him (eventually, dang he's stubborn!).
iEatEmos I've only seen the show, which wasn't spectacular. Are the books good?
The tv show is okay, if you take it as a tv show. Usually when tv shows are based around books I let them be in one of two categories: 1) Based on the book and closely done to the book (GoT) and 2) With the idea of the book but in their own style. It's #2. If shows try to do both then it's usually a fail.
The books themselves are pretty good. They get a little strange near the 3/4 mark of the series but it's still a good read.
My favorite use of the chosen one trope is the title character of BBC’s Merlin.
@Jordan Willis.
I think the trope can be played 28th and work, but there is always the temptation to use it straight. Harry Potter used it well by saying that prophecies are just estimations, not 100% true. The latter tends to destroy tension, while the former leaves the possibility of failure open.
Agreed! I think there's lots of fun to be had with it because of audience's expectations.
I am somewhat irritated of the chosen one trope, as it pretty much spoils who's going to win in the end. However, I can enjoy the trope, if the chosen one struggles, and falls in despair before he eventually defeats the villain, he sees his companions die one-by-one and he keeps making mistakes, trials and errors, we know he's going to claim victory in the end, but we also know that he struggled through a lot before he eventually defeated the villain, we know it was not an easy journey for him, and his journey ending with victory just makes me all the more happy, because he suffered through a lot and it's finally time to give him a break.
So basically, my opinion on the trope is it's the journey that matters, not the destination yada yada all of that stuff
Basically what you said near the end
arkila enilo Agreed! It has to be very hard for the MC to make it worthwhile!!
I'm wondering wether Frodo is a chosen one. He's not specially gifted AND he CHOSE to take the ring when it really came down to it. I feel like he is treated like a chosen one from then on though, but can he really be a chosen one, if he had the choice to be
Theonlydays He's definitely a tricky one... I'll brush up on my LOTR a bit and get back to you :P it's been too long
I wouldn't say he is a chosen one, he volunteers for the task and anyone could have done it. Bilbo was actually meant to do the task. The wizards are technically the chosen ones, since they were the ones put on middle-earth to stop Sauron. However Frodo is called that by others, mainly Gandalf, as a form of encouragement to carry on with the quest. I would say JRR Tolkien flip-flops the idea of a chosen one.
It's interesting how Tolkien handled that. He already had a chosen one in that story, Aragorn, son of Arathorn, heir to the yada yada yada. And then he had this little character with absolute no lineage in a world where even Pipin and Merry have some kind of one. It's like a parody, Frodo from the shire. Not even Bilbo's son. He's the less indicated for the mission. Bilbo could do it better, he already did it. Merry is a Brandigamo, they supposed to know how to ride horses, and Pipin is a Tuk, a heir of the most important warrior of the hobbits. Even Sam with his strong nature looks most suitable. But Frodo is none of this. He need to discover the chosen one in him. I think when he talked with Galadriel the thing becomes obvious to him but until the last moment he wasn't sure if he was or not the one for that job. I think he's a chosen one. But no the only. Merry was a chosen one. He charged in the Camps of Pelennor! WTF! And Pippin, who saved Denethor's lineage. And Eowyn, who killed the nazgul with the most perfect line ever wrote "I'm no man." (I'm not crying! You are!) Every one in that damn book was a sort of chosen one. All of them was tied with this doom and that's the beauty of Tolkien's characters. All of them had the choice, but none of them really had it. They were all meant to be.
He’s a “literally” chosen one. Destiny didn’t chose him, Gandalf did (well he volunteered to take the ring, but Gandalf shoved him out the door). So we’re not sure if he’ll succeed and sort of doesn’t. The job still gets done, but he himself doesn’t technically do it.
Hey Jordan, I really liked this video and I love your channel because of the quality content it provides. I am a big fan of YA, but in order to distinguish between good and bad stories (since almost everyone wants to be a YA writer nowadays), we need to look critically at the stories, and I think you're doing a very good job. What I dislike about the Chosen One trope is that that person almost always has the advantage over other characters (either it's a special gift, power, or an inner strength- which, by the way, is very difficult to create only by willpower), but I still love it in YA because it helps make sense of the whole universe and ensures that the protagonist is irreplaceable- like you said, no one else can save the world except them; if anyone could do it, then the struggle of the protagonist wouldn't really make sense. So, I hope you go on with trope videos because they are really on point :)
It's really strange but the chosen one really has its charm.
They're doing it to game of thrones, please kill me
Laura Oh god they kind of are, aren't they?
im just praying it won't be as cheesy and trope-y in the books
I'm absolutely sure there's gonna be a twist. It's a GRR thing. He wants us to fixate on the Azor Ahai, wether we think it's Jon or Daenerys, or whoever else, and then he's going to kill them. I'm sure of it.
I feel as if the 'chosen one' plot gives away the ending, the hero always win
K Grierson to certain extent. Look at Percy Jackson
Her: "One name probably pops into your head"
Me: "Neo"
Her: "Harry Potter"
I just found your videos and they have been so helpful! I have a chosen one in my book but they are born right at the end. I always loved the show How I Met Your Mother so part of the way through the future father of the chosen one is discovered (although he doesn’t know it). There are several women in the story who could possibly be the mother. However this is a subplot.
I can agree I do like/dislike this trope I’m making my own story where my main story has two main protagonist and they are the chosen two and I’m making sure they are escort relatable and not plain. I live your trope vids keep up the good work 👍👍👍
Hey Jordan! I just want to say that I've watched a few of your videos and tell you I think you're doing a wonderful job! Both insightful and critical your opinions on a lot of the plagues of contemporary literature as well as their assets have captured my interest and compelled me to let you know that I've enjoyed them. I especially love the detail you go into in a lot of your reviews, particularly why you didn't like things in the way it relates to what you want to see out of a writer and genre. I also am a fan of your honesty despite not always having popular opinions. I'm actually an author and am looking for a critical eye such as yours. I don't see any means of private contact so I just came to the comments as I see you're pretty interactive with them (which is also something that deserves praise.) I'm looking for a beta reader for my novel and was hoping you'd be one of the voices I might consult with on finishing it. If you'd have the time and our interested feel free to get me your info! If not, well, I meant the compliments with all sincerity and hope they might help validate your efforts here.
All the best!
-Ian
Hi Ian, thank you!! Could you tell me a bit more about your book? I don't have a ton of time right now, but I'd be willing to consider it if it sounds intriguing :)
Jordan Harvey It’s set about 75 years in the future and details the human experiments of an agency pioneering a bioengineered nanotechnology. These microscopic robots when introduced to the body can alter someone on a fundamental level. It can control them, and change them. Naturally, the prose explores what it means to be ensouled, to be human, and thusly; to be flawed, as well as what it means to remove the flaws that make us up. I encourage you to read through my first chapter if you think you need help making your mind up: you can find that here: iannights.com/chapter-1/
If you would be interested feel free to get in touch via the contact page on that site!
You seem damn hard to please. I like that.
Personally I prefer the Chosen One trope when it's more of a deconstruction. The trope gets a lot more substance when it's looked at from that perspective. Neon Genesis Evangelion is a good example.
I agree, I think the chosen one trope is great because there's a lot of room to play with it!
The chosen one is the trope I hate the most in fiction. It is the very definition of lazy writing. Plus, these characters are usually so good at everything that they are hard for a klutz like me to relate to. Lol. With that said though, I love your Trope Talk videos, which I am just now getting caught up on. Your arguments for or against a certain trope are always thoughtful and interesting. You give great examples to back up your points, and you are not afraid to go against the current, which is a breath of fresh air. Thank you for all of your content!
I love this trope but I do sometimes feel like it gives the message that only certain people are special but I still loved books like Harry Potter and Percy Jackson
If you haven't yet you should read Truthwitch by Susan Dennard. It's Currently one of my favorite series so far even though only 2 out of the 5 books have been released along with one novela.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll check it out :)
The best use of the Chose One trope that I've see comes from Tales of Symphonia. It's a JRPG, not a book. It just does a lot of unique things with it. Obviously I can't say too much about it as it ruins plot twists for anyone here who cares about that, but I can say two things that it does that happen very early on that I liked. One was that the main character was NOT the Chosen One. Instead it was one of his companions. Another is that he Chosen One is completely able to fail. They say early on that the previous Chose Ones (I think it was either five or eight) failed. And it just continues to subvert a lot of tropes we see when it comes to Chosen Ones. I wish I could see this kind of thing more often.
That sounds really neat! Thanks for sharing :)
Thanks. I just can't help but think of this game whenever I see the words "Chosen One." XD I could honestly continue to gush about how it subverts this trope, but I don't know whether you're actually interested in games at all and don't want to spoil just in case.
I don't like the Chosen One trope at all :D the reason for that might be that I like characters that actually choose to be part of the conflict and choose to involve in it rather than just being „destined“ to do so. Characters who achieve their goals through hard work rather than birthright. Also I like fantasy worlds where no one is strong enough to change everything. That seems more real to me :)
My undying love for the star wars prequels questions why some people must disavow any merit those films may have even when using them as a positive example of something
I like the different takes there can be on the Chosen One in different stories.
Harry Potter didn't ask for it and was bascially Chosen by the Villain, who did feel beholden to the prophecy. An argument could be even made that Voldemort thought he was the Chosen One of his story.
In Star Wars, all the expectations and praises that were heaped on Anakin got to his head and made him arrogant and prone to hubris. Being the Chosen One screwed him up.
The LEGO Movie took the piss out of the concept of there being a chosen one when the wise old mentor admits that he made the prophecy up. Emmett is as non-special as you can get. But then it turns out that everyone can be special in their own unique way.
Katniss Everdeen becomes the Chosen One unwillingly when she defies the Capitol and thus becomes a symbol of resitance. All that despite the fact that her actions were purely motivated by survival and to keep her loved ones save. Katniss never had any intensions of bringing Panem's tryanny down but political circumstances put her on a spot she never asked for.
What about Shera and Avatar the Last Airbender on Netflix?
Great content. Please share your Goodreads ;)
It's all about execution for me. Some writers screw up the most creative ideas, while some others make miracles out of the oldest tropes.
Chosen one isn't bad as long as the story is refreshing enough to surprise me. But I have to say, most of them are just badly executed, with plots looked super familiar and cardboard cut out cliche characters that annoy me.
I'm planning on writing something where the chosen one goes on this massive quest where they have to kill the god of Hell, before discovering that they are the re-incarnation of the god of hell.
dragon_ willow interesting!
I have a Chosen One in a book I’m writing except she’s the villain...
Adrianne Thornheart amazing! I love that!!
"not like other girls"
Do you think you could review or just read I Hunt Killers? I personally feel this book is underappreciated.
It's about Jasper "Jazz" Dent who is the son of the world's most infamous serial killer and is raised to think like and become a serial killer. Bodies are piling up again in the quiet town a few years after his dad's arrest. Jazz joins the police in a hunt for the new serial killer in hopes to prove he is not like his dad.
I like this trope as well. But today, as I am aging, I was becoming less fond of this trope, especially if the books are for YA, NA, and Adult audiences.
As an older audience, I demanded a logical explanation for the protagonist to be chosen, for it targets YA audiences.
Because you know, sometimes, the author wanted only to expand their world instead of really dig the plot.
And nowadays, some of the chosen one trope's author tended to ... Prolonged the ending for their novels. Once they said it will be trilogy, then it expanded to spin offs, crossovers, and even direct trilogy sequel. For me, as a reader, that's exhausting. Really.
My problem with when people use this trope is that most of them use it as a way of 'Tell' instead of 'Show', mainly as a shortcut to try to pump their protagonist up in the readers mind.
The original 'Matrix trilogy' is more or less a perfect use/showcase of the chosen one idea. With Potter, J.K flipped it on its head where she's not telling the reader that Harry is exceptional, instead the population of his world are the ones that desperately want to believe that he is, making him close to a messiah character in their heads while he (and we the audience) know that he isn't; at least not in the way that they want to believe.
A chosen one with still a "who" focus, it's Mistborn.
It's not perfect, but I liked it!
Eh. Mixed feelings about this trope. On the one hand, I am a die-hard fan of HP and LOTR and Star Wars (nerd for life). On the other, it would be nice to have multiple "Chosen Ones". One to fight, one to provide knowledge, and one to provide magical power. That's one of the premises of my Fantasy series (aspiring Fantasy author). Adria, the middle sister, is the warrior. Celestina, the eldest sister, is the sorceress. Anastasia, the youngest of the three, is the scholar/translator of the tome of the Light (their "deity/creator"). I am almost finished with the first book (took me a full year). It is told from Adria's viewpoint, and the sequel will be told from Celestina's viewpoint. The third will be told from Anastasia, and the final one will be told from all three viewpoints. Also, Ms. Harvey, I recommend some Facebook pages. Namely: Writer's Unite, Fantasy Authors/Fanatics/Kosher Critique Group. Excellent pages that I have joined and have been a member of for a few years. Loving the videos (especially the ones about Fantasy). A trope that I would like to hear you talk about: Dark Lords/Powers. What, in your opinion, makes a good "Dark Lord"? A Sauron type (a Power/entity) or a Voldemort type (human with magical powers)? Or, one that is turned because of a tragic backstory (Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker)? Please and thank you. :).
munku121 your books sound awesome from the characters alone ! love to read it some day !
Thank you. :).
Finished the manuscript. Now, just waiting for my editor to come up with a contract. Then, around the first of the month, the first editing session will begin. :).
Wait, how would destroying the Sith bring balance to the force? The dark side is a side of the force! If the Sith are destroyed, the force is unbalanced because there’s only the light side!
If I remember correctly a fan theory used to claim Darth Vader's Jedi-cide leads to complete balance in the force from a strictly _numerical_ perspective. Two Jedi: Obi Wan, Yoda. Two Sith: Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader.
Gabrielle Parker There is no "light side". There is the force, then there is the dark side of it. The force is a part of nature, and the dark side is chaos and imbalance.
Immortal Stranger my understanding from just watching the OT was that the "dark side" was more just a figure of speech meaning a fall from grace or using the powers for bad intentions.
Looking at the subversions and don't bring up the Lego movie... SAD.
I'm personally kinda sick of this trope, and I do not like it. What about all of the people who work themselves to death to get better? That is a still fascinating journey story that's more relatable and you can feel more for them. You don't have to be special or gifted or chosen to do great things and I think that is a more inspiring and meaningful tale. I guess I feel like Chosen One stories kind of make me hear the, "Oh well you're just gifted," that drives me up the wall, like it's saying you can only do this if the universe favors you, or that hard work means nothing because you have to be special, which are messages I don't like. Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter, but I didn't feel too connected to him because he was a Chosen One. Just my thoughts.
Harry Potter is a terrible example of this trope. The guy wasn't your common Chosen One trope because we learn he IS Prophecised to kill or be killed by Voldemort a bit too late in the series, and by then we aren't surprised because we already expect this to be the case, with Harry being the main protagonist, Voldemort being the antagonist and the two having a history of one trying (and failing) to kill the other. If anything, the addition of a Prophecy was unnecessary and it really becomes more of a plot device to keep Harry getting himself in trouble. Actually, the prophecy does seem just an excuse to give our relatively average dude an excuse to be in the thick of things. It was a bit lazy from JK Rowlings part. Instead of making it out to be some very unique ritual of Harry's mother that made him special... nope, Prophecy. Did Voldemort really need an excuse to kill the Potters? Why not to make a point and just that?
He was "The Boy Who Lived" from the start, and everyone in the Wizarding world was either ga-ga over him (especially in Sorcerer's Stone) or hyper-critical of him when it turned out he didn't have a halo and float six inches off the ground. It's pretty clear that his Destiny is inextricably linked to Voldemort's from the beginning--his special mark, the fact that his wand is "brother" to Voldemort's, and so on. The "Prophecy" only sealed the deal (though technically it applied equally well to Neville Longbottom).
I tend to hate this one myself. Obviously I think it can be done well, or I wouldn't agree with you about Avatar, but it is _way_ overused and easy to screw up. I also think it's a bit of a narcissistic trope, built around exceptionalism, and (usually)... fascism. Hear me out:
I first recognized this playing the demo to Mass Effect 2. When Commander Shepherd is resurrected, and praise/thanks are immediately heaped upon him/her, and everyone talks about what a great amazing leader he/she is. This is my earliest exposure to the franchise, mind you, and I'm instantly mobbed by an encirclement of brown-nosers. Even the people who'd never met Shepherd wouldn't shut up about it. I couldn't help thinking "this series is supposed to be built around moral decisions, right?" the fact that my version of Shepherd could have been anyone didn't seem to matter at all.
This got me thinking: the "chosen one" trope is more often than not a Christian allegory, up to and including a resurrection. _However_ they're almost always built around the exaltation of deified militaristic leaders too. Commander Shepherd, from Mass Effect; John Connor, from Terminator; Neo, from the Matrix; Aang, from Avatar; even Harry Potter - they all lead armies. Even when we account for the inclusions of Nazi stand-in villains, and the moral righteousness of the protagonists (by modern standards), It's not hard to see how this marriage of Christianity and military might-makes-right could be problematic, or at least has problematic roots. In the real world armies who give themselves over religiously to the "one-true chosen leader, ordained by the heavens" don't fare very well, and neither do their people. Think of the WWII era emperor of Japan. His people followed him into oblivion because propaganda and custom said he was a god.
The specific paradoxical fusion of Christianity and militarism has informed a number of questionable policies both official and unofficial, in The United States of America, manifest destiny being among the most blatant.
I understand it's a trope most often used in fantasy, where the point is escapism, (and action is more fun) but I'm wary of giving certain stories a free pass for not having real world parallels, especially when they do have real world parallels, and those parallels are _terrifying._
I sometimes take issue with more literal examples of the "chosen one" trope when the story avoids answering the question of who they're supposed to have been chosen _by._
Lastly I think the protagonists in these stories can sometimes lack agency.
ooh this is a really good comment. I think people deep down would love for the whole chosen by God, army of the light leader thing to work, so that's reflected on the chosen one tropes. In reality, not even the most well meaning ideologies produce chosen one's following that are good.
Well thank you. Yes I don't think many people have thought about the implications of this trope and what its persistent popularity might mean for human psychology, maybe a deconstructionist narrative is in order.
@Tom Ffrench While this is an extremely magnanimous disagreement, I think it's worth considering the possibility that fictional concepts having no direct real world parallels have potential to be dangerous. Teaching propagandistic or dissonant messages. Like: imagine if I wrote a story about a fantasy race where all the creatures within it inevitably become bloodthirsty lunatics when they reach adulthood, but before then are all but indistinguishable from civilized people. So the plausible argument is to wipe them all off the face of the Earth regardless of age. In their fantasy universe, assuming this is true, and that there are no other orchestrating factors at play, there is no reason to believe there are any alternatives, but *I* have created a scenerio that has no other alternatives, narratively, and which provides metacommentary that only has troubling real world connotations. Very few stories are written without some purpose beyond entertainment, and considering they only contribute to our culture through their relationship to it, I think being cognizent of the message your story sends regardless of intent is necessary.
Also I think Fascism _mostly_ involves religion because fascists are usually deified, often through literal self-declarations, and occasionally preemptively by their supporters. Absent either of these outcomes they are treated as gods as a matter of course anyway.
When you say "people aren't tired of chosen ones because Harry Potter" you seem to forget one thing: Harry Potter wasn't always "the chosen one". Yes, it was obvious from the start that he would have to face Voldemort in the end, but the prophecy isn't revealed until the fifth book (only foreshadowed in the third) and Harry isn't specifically refered to as "the chosen one" until the sixth book. By then, the readers had already grown to love the story, however - when Rowling did all that prophecy stuff in OotP, I actually thought "no, not this again". I'm sick and tired of the chosen one trope. This is actually one of few things I dislike about the Harry Potter series. She didn't have to include that. It was only included so to put further weight on Harry's shoulders, but it didn't serve any 'new' purpose. That's why using Harry Potter as an argument for that people still like this trope isn't a strong argument - I'd say, people love Harry Potter DESPITE of this trope, not because of it.
For me why the “chosen one” thing doesn’t bother me in HP (with the prophecy) is that it didn’t necessarily have to be him, it could’ve been Neville. Him being the chosen one results from Voldermort’s choice. Also knowing that if he had chosen Neville he probably would have won makes it more interesting.
I'm planning on writing a thing where the chosen one goes on this quest to kill the god of Hell, before discovering that they are in fact the re-incarnation of the god of Hell. (Something tells me that this is a bad idea but oh well.)
Do you have any superhero trope videos?
silverfur 123 Not yet, but I may talk about some of those soon!!
I feel that this trope can often suck the creativity out of a story and seem too artificial. The author wants an unlikely hero, someone who isn't a great general or statesman to lead the forces of light. Instead of working out an in universe way for an unlikely person to become the leader they make a prophecy and leave it at that. Instead of focusing on making the hero's personality unsuited to the task, the author instead makes them low man on the totem pole, then uses the prophecy. Thing is we know this trope and most times the prophecy is 100% right.
Another reason I dislike it is that prophecy heavily indicates the universe is deterministic. If that is true then the outcome of the fight between good and evil is predetermined and nothing anyone does can change it. It also often goes hand in hand with having everything be on a big cycle that is constantly turning through set events. But if that is true then the events of the book aren't that important anyway. If every thousand years a hero must rise up to reseal the dark lord, then the events of the story aren't some big unprecedented event that could change the entire world. They're just regular Tuesday. Repetition doesn't make an event seem bigger, it makes it seem smaller. Something new is more exciting then something we've seen a thousand times. It undermines the tension of the story.
I do think Harry Potter had a good bit about how prophecies are estimations of what may happen and often don't come true, but it still feels like Rowling could've gotten rid of the prophecy and had Harry step up due to peer pressure and his history with the dark lord. I think she also did make a good point that Voldemort's theatrical obsession with the prophecy was a major flaw, such as when he manipulated the Tri Wizard tournament. In short Rowling plays with the prophecy and shows how slavish devotion to it hurts the dark lord.
Matt Morehouse I do agree with some of your points and I completely understand what you're saying and why you don't like the trope. I sometimes don't like it. I think I have a bit of a soft spot for it though, as some of my favourite stories growing up play around with this trope, and I still think it puts an emphasis on creativity rather than squandering it.
I apologize if this is a bit out of topic but your videos are awesome and very fun to watch! I was wondering if you offer beta reading services? Thanks!
Areli Mendoza I'm not at the moment because of my busy schedule, but I may in the future :)
I've got one idea where the "chosen one" is just a little girl, and her dad decides "fuck that, I'm gonna take down the Evil Empire (TM) myself so she can have a happy childhood."
THAT'S AMAZING
can you do a review of the fifth wave by rick yancey?
E I haven't read it, but maybe!
Harry Potter is worst chosen one ever written like he survived Voldi's curse as a baby and kicked his butt in book 1, 2 and 4 through deus ex machina we don't need to be told that he's the one who's supposed to kill Voldi strating book 5 we know it, thanks captain obvious. No seriously, this revealation sounded like a parody when I red it.
Nah, Jesus is much worse: he's *way* overpowered for the setting, and the sequel (which thankfully never went into production) is a completely one-sided ritual destruction of the world where Jesus just shows up at the end and Godzilla-stomps the bad guys with ease. No conflict, no drama, no relatable character flaws... :)
So, what if you have two chosen ones? 😂
I've been binge watching your videos and I had a super odd question! If I summarized my book, would you tell me if it sounds okay? I've been a writer for maybe five years and I've never had another writer give me feedback. I'm super nervous to ask this and I know its sounds stupid but it would help me so much.
Kpop Is LYFE Sure you can, but it's really hard to judge something just based off the synopsis
Jordan Harvey too true
STAR WARS-cha cha cha.
WIL
WASN
I mean Jordan Harvey. sorry.