I live in Michigan, and I've been to Mackinac many times. It always strikes me that for a British soldier, being assigned to northern Michigan in 1812 would have been worse than being assigned to Singapore or Sumatra in 1940. Total wilderness, no help available. If you were injured or became ill, you died. There are (small) mass graves up there of redcoats who died of smallpox and scurvy.
plenty of men recuperated. peace time deaths from injury and illness were rather low. In war time more pronounced due to the surgeons focusing on battle wounds. and other factors.
Fort Detroit was definitely the most humiliating defeat for the Americans in the war. 2,500 US soldiers, hundreds of civilians, a fort, an entire town and a warship surrendered to a British and Indian force of 1,300 and virtually without a fight because William Hull was terrified of Indians, which Sir Issac Brock obviously used to his advantage.
Lol, there was worse than that. The Battle of Lacole Mills saw the US troops, 4000 strong, flee the battlefield against the British/Canadian forces who only numbered some 500 in total. Major General James Wilkinson, the US commander, was subsequently relieved of command. However, at the start of the battle, there was only 80 Brits against 4000! The reinforcements arrived to bump up to 500 on the british side. Insance odds.
@@thefantasyreview8709 In the first Battle of Lacole Mills a little over 500 British troops and Mohawk warriors under Saliberry crushed Dearborn's force of 6,000 who were firing on each other in the dark.
I would have thought the capture of Washington, eating the presidents lunch, and then burning the White house down in just a raid was far more humiliating, but sensitivities vary.
I know, I wasn't referring to the British Grenadiers (the song at the beginning) I was referring to the orchestral music in the background which as far as my research goes, is an original composition for that game's soundtrack. I am referring to a different song entirely.
The boyscouts are responsible for raising and lowering the flags at 2:15, and many others around the island to include the cemetery. When I volunteered for the detail, we were drilled extensively before being sent to the island for a week so we looked very professional marching, and raising and lowering the flags. It was really fun and we lived on the island for a whole week.
I mean.... Fort mackinac is on a cliff that overlooks the harbor. Fort George holds no greater strategic significance other than being on slightly higher ground than fort Mackinac. You can't see the water from Fort George, So it would be pointless to build there.
@@ANWRocketMan no. You defend the most defensible spot. You dont assume the enemy knows your weakness, or assume they are going to pull off a risky maneuver, like off-boarding their troops against shear cliffs. The Spartans held at the narrowest point at Thermopalye. They knew of the goat path. They knew if the Persians discovered it they would be flanked. They didnt set their shield wall on the goat path. You dont set a defense with the expectation of the enemy flanking you. You set your defense at the best, most defensible spot.
@@AtunSheiFilms one summer I went to the island with my boyscout troop must have been '05 or '06 long before the fort had been rebuilt. There was only the faintest sign that a building had ever stood there. I climbed to the top of the earthen mound where the walls once were and are again and looked out on the lake as the sun was setting. I felt so at peace surrounded by such beauty. If I had died in that moment, I thought, even at the age of 11 or 12 that would have been a life worth living. Thank you for this video, and reminding me of that time. I may have been a bit melodramatic as a boy but that memory still sticks with.
@@cornerdav oh man. My wife and I got married on devils night and honeymooned on mackinac. Thing is, island mostly closes on Halloween so we had the island more or less to ourselves (there were workers and residents and one other honeymooning couple) it was AMAZING! I highly recommend visiting in the off season.
@michael dowson And Fort Mackinac's predecessor, Fort Michilimackinac just across the straits to the south. At one time, the longest continuous archaeological excavation in North America. There's an interesting story there that took place during Pontiac's Uprising.
Loved this! My girlfriend and I just visited today and left awestruck by the sights but wanted to learn more...this video was a perfect history lesson-keep them coming!
Most of us learn from our mistakes just well enough. Even though our enthusiastic pride doesn’t want us to dwell on negativities but we all still understand defeats.
@@torinjones3221 Exactly. All evidence from this septic Isle of late has made it clear that we haven't learned a darn thing from our mistakes. If we had, the Tories would never win another election.
As someone who also played a living historian up here in Canada, I can confidently say I now, and always will know every word to British Grenadiers. Love your material! Keep up the great work my Friend!
Strictly speaking 'gunner' is the basic rank i.e. a private. Ranks above that are lance-bombardier and bombardier then normal army ranks such as sergeant are used.
faeembrugh it’s also used in the same way that anyone serving in the Grenadier Guards is a Grenadier, or the Royal Anglians is an Anglian, or the Irish Guards is a Mick, for example.
@@keithorbell8946 Yeah, to add to that. Literally in this period, the rank of "Private" did not exist. Whilst it might be a term that people were familiar with, ranks were relative to the regiment. However, in this period a person of the Foot Guards, were Guardsmen- not Grenadiers. In this period you were a Grenadier if you were of the rightmost flank company, the Grenadier Company. Additionally, the Grenadier Guards were not given that nickname until after the Battle of Waterloo where they beat the Old Guard and earned their bearskins as a token of defeating the Old Guard who wore bearskins. Regardless, another good example would be the Royal Welch Fusiliers privates were "Fusiliers." Or the His Majesty's Marine Forces (the RMC name of the period) was a "Marine."
Graham the Grenadier sobriquet to the 1st Foot Guards is actually a misnomer, they incorrectly identified the Old Guard regiment they drove back as the Grenadiers a Pied, when in fact it was the Chasseurs a Pied. The Foot guards did wear bearskins before Waterloo, but only for ceremonial purposes and of the British Pattern, rather than the Napoleonic French Pattern they adopted after the Battle of Waterloo.
@@keithorbell8946 And? The "Chasseurs-à-Pied de la Garde Impériale" was still of the Old Guard. Light infantry or not they still wore Bearskins, and were still part of the Old Guard. Also yes they wore them for parade, that is well known. I was distinguishing that they didn't wear them on the field pre-1815. But regardless, that was hardly my point- I was simply correcting an error you made.
All of my daughters have been Mackinac Island Honor Scouts. We love the island and visit almost every year. Thanks for the wider audience for this important piece of American history.
I feel very sorry for the American lieutenant. If he had not surrendered, his tiny garrison would most certainly have been wiped out by the numerically superior British-Canadian army. then to be decapitated by a British cannonball in a place where he was to be held for trial for doing what was best for his men seems like a harsh injustice.
@@dominiquecharriere1285 And then, when the fort was inevitably taken after a week or so, the Indians would have swarmed the place and committed atrocities on every member of the garrison, living or dead. The British would not have been able to restrain them -- even if inclined to do so. By not resisting, the LT was presumably able to negotiate the terms of a surrender that included guarantees as to the safety of the garrison and granting of the honors of war.
War of 1812 consisted of many blunders on each side and should never have had occurred. I believe the Americans had different views and style of fighting battles than European countries. Surrender to avoid a massacre of your troops was more common in Europe. I believe the American lieutenant did the correct decision for his men and their families. Would the scarification of these men for American pride desired a few be justified when the island was returned to the USA after the war. The lieutenant should be acknowledged for not wasting the lives of his men in a situation where there was no possible alternative outcome from fighting to the last man.
Thank you for doing this battle justice. I visited the grounds as a kid and didn’t pay it too much heed for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Wish I had, sounds like an interesting battle tactically.
Oh my God! I had no idea they rebuilt Fort Holmes! I was a guide on Mackinac Island for 6 years. My last year being 2014. It was only a foundation and gate when I was there. Good to see it restored.
Love you channel ! I just found it funny that you used a painting of the burning of the Parliament in Montreal in 1849 at 1:53. Keep up the good work !
My wife worked for a summer on Mackinac, I stayed up there for a couple weeks, cool place to visit. The fort is pretty cool; always wanted to know more about it, amazing video man.
Superb presentation! It always amazes me how by far most of the battles of 1812 were American defeats, but thanks to Fort McHenry and Andy Jackson we can call it a "victory" and rally round the flag anyways. Great video sir!
Actually, if you look at a list of battles fought by both sides, to include naval engagements, skirmishes, raids, etc, the list of wins/losses for both sides is pretty close to being even. The difference is that one side has numerous allies and an entire empire backing it. The other did not. We just tend to over-fixate on the opening year of the war, which was, in fact, defeat after defeat for the United States. However, by 1813-1814, the United States in many ways was gaining momentum and had won a string of victories against the British.
@@DirtyMikeandTheBoys69 fair point, but it was more the british stopped winning battles and they became draws. by 1814 the americans were making some headway in Canada but the ground they were taking by no means was worth the casulies being inflicted. the Battle of Bladensbug and the burning of Washington were both in 1814. On the other hand, I forgot about the Battle of the Thames, which was probably a more important battle in the long run than any of the other battles. A signal-and sad-defeat of the last gasp of Anglo-Indian cooperation.
The War of 1812 has been called the perfect war. The Americans think we won. The Canadians think they won and the British don't even remember it ever happening.
I grew up in Fremont Ohio where on August first and second 1812 then Major George Croghan commanded Ft Stephenson against a British and Native attack which is still remembered today. Nearby was the naval Battle of Lake Erie (Put in Bay) the following month, again remembered in the area. This was the first I heard of Croghan's defeat at Mackinac Island. Thank you for remembering a forgotten war
On a train, crossing Ontario, l was reading to my wife an account of the 1812 war, a somewhat bias pro US compilation, a Canadian couple sitting in front of us, turned around and put matters very straight, then a chap behind joined in. Caught between their crossfire, only our English accents saved us.
Lol. I'm not suprised. America is a touchy subject in Canada. They're always trying to take credit from us. The war of 1812, made us Canadians. Before that, US, Canada, Mexico were all Americans. Our brothers attacked us, and we were appalled! The rally cry became We Are Not Americans! And we stated calling ourselves Canadian. I think everything we've done since as a country, including our politeness, is because we're still trying to prove We Are Not Americans. We're better than that.
sarablueshoes lol really? What are they teaching you in Canada? Mexico was never American nor was Canada. Canada became Canada after the rebellions of 1837-38 which lead to the union act of 1841.
I am Scottish and visited the island many years ago whilst staying with relatives in the States and Canada. Such a beautiful place, wished we British had kept it, Lol.
We gave up 'Grande Portage" as well. My grandfather was in the WW1 Signal Corp. out of Duluth, even though by WW1 he was homesteading in Canada and beginning to chase grandma in S.Dakota.
There were many American defeats in the War of 1812 ,Stoney Creek 1813 ,Crysler Farm 1813 , but thank you for posting this, I have not heard of this battle .
IDK if you meant to do this, but the photo of Fort Wayne you used is from the fort in Fort Wayne, Indiana, not the Fort Wayne that was in Detroit - either way, I love your content - I'd love to see you cover both the Siege Of Detroit and the Siege Of Fort Wayne
I was astounded to see you give the straights some attention to the channel. It really feels like a less spoken spart to a less spoken of war. Not many outside of us Michiganders give it any attention. Thanks for the love.
Even Michiganders largely ignore the War of 1812. It’s poorly taught in the high schools (and by poorly I mean the Battle of New Orleans and Fort McHenry aren’t even covered). None of my friends knew about it. Heck I literally went to college on an old fort and no one quite seemed to know why the fort was there, and the answer was the War of 1812. Go to the Henry Ford museum and there’s an exhibit on the Revolution, Civil War, and Civil Rights but literally the war partially waged 20 min from there isn’t mentioned.
@@ninjagirl226 oh completely true. But I grew up near Mackinac. It wasn't hard to ignore, but a bit more in your face than the rest of the trolls (people who live south of the bridge).
The fort literally has the carp animatronic thing about the surrender of the fort. If you’ve been there and haven’t seen it something is wrong my dude...
Have you ever checked into the relationship between Tecumseh and General Isaac Brock? They took Detroit by a ruse de guerre with an agreement that if Tecumseh's Indigenous force supported the British to be victorious there would be a third country west of the Mississippi for the Indian Nations. But Tecumseh died at the Battle of the Thames and Brock as the hero of Queenston Heights leaving the interests of First Nations a bargaining chip for the English to mollify US interests and re-establish the border to it's pre-war status. Imagine if there had been such a third country in North America...anyway, big fan of Tecumseh, this might be a worthy topic to consider for your splendorous video prowess!
"Imagine if there had been such a third country in North America" I don't think that would have stood the test of time. The Americans would eventually just have brushed it aside.
Tecumseh tried his best to unify the tribes but came up short with tribal differences and Henry Harrison taking 13 million acres of Indiana from his beleaguered sub chiefs in a phony treaty signing....
I love Mackinac Island. It was always the best part of visiting relatives in Michigan. About ten years ago, my family went back there and I finally got my husband and then nine-year old son to visit. No kidding, we actually saw the Harlem Globetrotters shooting baskets on the cargo boat from our ferry boat. They were visiting the island for a public appearance and we eventually met up with them at Fort Michilimackinac. We got to do some of the early American dancing with them. They were lovely young men, and I really felt for the poor guy in the Globy costume in the July sunshine. My husband and I had to explain to our son about the TV trope of every sitcom and cartoon in the'70s meeting the Harlem Globetrotters. This just exemplifies our crazy, sitcom life!
For the record, the indigenous peoples allied to or in the uniform of the Crown Forces would have in these actions (Mackinac 1812, 1814) been Anishnaabe and Metis. I'm a descendant of two of them.
Socially Distant , Métis People are from the Red River area in what is now Manitoba and they did not fight of the Crown in this war. The word does not mean “mixed” or non-Status or off-Reserve. Maybe you mean what we call small-m métis.
@@janetteplatana4742 Well, Janette, you might like to tell that to the Metis Nation of Ontario. And I'd guess you're not aware that many western Canadian Metis are descendants of Great Lakes Metis voyageurs who moved west as the fur trade in north-western Ontario died out in the 1830's.
@@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry, beginning a reply to me “Well, Janette” is a signal you want a fight, and I am not interested. Of course, Métis from the Red resettled around the Lakes and other fur trade routes; no argument from me. Nor is it news to me. Claw it back. MNO is problematic. I will refer you to raceshifting.com. I will not reply again. This is my area of funded, academic research, and I ask you to not assume you can school me on it.
I really enjoyed visiting Mackinac Island and the fort. One of the fort's (American) doctors, William Beaumont was well known for performing experiments on/with a soldier that was wounded by an accidental discharge and ended up with an open hole in his stomach. Beaumont would suspend all sorts of things on strings and dip them into the stomach to study the effects and nature of digestive acids. Pretty gross, and the ethics were questionable, but I guess it was a breakthrough in GI tract science.
“It was strange, and in some perverse way resolutely American, that these two carriers wallowing in the dusk bore names which memorialized not stirring victories but humiliating defeats, as if by thus publishing her indifference to catastrophe and her willingness to surmount it, the United States were defying her enemies.” - James A. Michener
The American narrative of..'We won the War of 1812@ when in fact they won 4 naval actions and a battle that was fought after the war was over. The Treaty of ghent restored the status quo ante bellum so essentially the USA achieved none of it's war goals.
@@jamesmaclennan4525 What were the war goals on each side? did both accomplish them? Britain being the most powerful nation on earth with the largest navy at the time im sure they should've accomplished their goals very easily compared to some upstart nation that defeated them 30 years prior. The Americans fought the most power nation to a standstill and put a huge stamp towards the end when they delivered a crushing defeat at New Orleans against a British force composed of veterans from the Napoleonic Wars. I'd say thats a pretty good accomplishment for a nation that had no navy and barely an army. I'd say thats pretty humiliating for the British.
@@stuka80 New Orleans "towards the end"? It was after the end. It was irrelevant, apart from assuaging US pride, especially after battles such as this and the Bladensburg Races. As for British war aims? Simple, maintain the status quo, seeing as Britain didn't want a war in the first place.....we were rather busy with that Napoleon chap. As the status quo was pretty much preserved in the Treaty, I'd say that the UK achieved its aims. If New Orleans hadn't been fought, the war would have been a bit of an embarrassment for the US on land. They did better at sea, but a few minor one sided, ship to ship actions in no way disrupted the total dominance of the Royal Navy.
@@stuka80 Never ask a question in an argument unless you know the answer, my man The Poms achieved their war goals of maintaining the status quo, 1812 was undoubtedly a British victory
@@thehappyaussie8907 This thread is basically composed of British or former Commonwealth trying to convince yourselves with a clear bias. The funny thing is you guys accuse Americans of being delusional and claiming victory and you're doing the same exact thing, so i'm not really surprised. I sensed that with the very first person and everyone else who responded. As far as maintaining status quo as a war aim, you can technically say you achieved it, but you can't claim a victory over the Americans either when the war was fought to a standstill. Especially being the premier power over the day they couldn't subdue a nation that couldn't even compare to Napoleonic France. The British strategical aims were not successfull and as i mentioned, at New Orleans an inferior American force smashed a superior British force and killed its commander. In the moral sense that gives for a very good reason why some Americans would believe that they won it. Complaining about how the battle took place after the treaty....might i remind you, it was the british who attacked New Orleans after the treaty was sign, they initiated the battle, the Americans just ended it in crushing fashion. So like i said, you can't claim that you achieved victory which implies you militarily defeated an enemy, you are being disingenious and very bias clearly by stating that. Its like the biggest meanest guy in the block fighting a kid and the big guy's goal is to not get ko'd. Then after a back and forth fight, claims victory because they didn't get ko'd by the kid, clearly laughable, like this status quo victory claim. The Americans went to war because of British interference of their trade and pressing sailors into the Royal Navy, after the war that stopped. So should the Americans claim victory as well? Yes that is an argumentative question that you can answer.
When i was growing up i only k ew of the fall of the fort, it was only until i was in my senior year of high school did i learn about the US contour attact. My family and i visited the island later that summer and i went to the 1814 battlefield for thw first time. I wish this was tought in schools when kids learn about our states history, since this is the only war to be fought in Michigan.
Great video! Awesome channel! Hope you consider doing a few collabs soon. Would really get more eyes on your content, I think. Anyhow, thanks for the solid engaging vids you got here! Peace!
Refreshing point of view! 90% of the internet is, "My people rule! My ancestors from 4 centuries ago, tell me it is so!!" Humans would be so much happier if they lived in the present, and cared about the future (as much as they care about the past).
@@BlindingGlow That's right. And that is how we maintained our independence. We are still a Dominion and we still recognize the Queen. That's why we went to war in 1914 and 1939. We are independent of the USA.
HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAR HAD BEEN DECLARED!? It was the American Government that have declared it. The island was attacked NOT for the Empire but for the PROTECTION of British allies that were needed since most of the British armed forces were in EUROPE fighting Napoleon.
In regards to some of the comments about remembering your defeats I would just like to say Canada has suffered some devastating defeats. Hongkong and Dieppe among the most prominent. Canada is still one of only a very few nations who has never lost a war.
Wrong you were on the losing side in the american war of independence. You were part of british empire and it does count. If not then you cannot count any victories includcing ww1 and 2
@@Mulberry2000 I think you need to read your history again. There was no Canada in 1776. There were many British Colonies. Some revolted. Canada became a nation in 1867 when British colonies United. Since becoming a nation as I stated Canada has had it's defeats in battle, but has never lost a war. It's just the facts.
@@scallywag6768 I know my history for very well i have two degrees in it. Canada did not become independent in 1867, it was formally joined at the hip to the UK as a dominion. You cannot claim victories while being part the british empire and then ignore the ones that were defeats. Canada was part of the war of independence. You are claiming victory for AWI and war of 1812 for canada only,. Canada did not finaly become independent till the 1980s. It is a fact the canadians were on the losing side in the AWI. Stop being jingoistic. It smells.www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/dominion
@@Mulberry2000 the war of independence was between Britain and what was British Colonies. That's a fact. It was a "Revolution" Canada as a nation did not exist. For someone with 2 degrees in history you aren't very bright adding 2+2 and coming up with 5.
Napoleon's dictum Shore batteries will inevitably prevail over ship bombards. And another... Activite activitie activitie And from Wellington. ... Never interrupt your enemy when He is committing an error. All three appear relevant here.
1:53 The painting shows the burning down of the Parliament building in Montreal in 1849 by an angry mob. Thank you for your interesting video of a little known event!
British soldiers always felt bad about fighting Americans mostly because everyone spoke the same language and in a lot of cases, had relatives on the other side.
timmo491Cool, I’m American and love the UK. Second, my fiancé is English and she’s pregnant with twins. The first in my family to be born In Britain in over 200 years. 🇬🇧 🏴🤝🇺🇸
It's soooo refreshing to hear an objective, balanced Yankee view of history for a change. Don't talk to me about Mel Gibson's parody of history, making out the British no better than a bunch of NAZI's.
Hello, I'm from the UK and to be honest, I'm not interested in the problems our two nations have had in the past. I just love the fact that we're best friends now and together we are unstoppable 👍
@@TheIceman567 No, I live in Wales. It seems crazy now when you and I think about in reality, the UK AND USA were almost continuously at each other's throats up until the late 1930s.Oh well, that's family for you 😂😉👍
Graham Jones Jason Plessas cool, I’m American and love the UK. Second, my fiancé is English and she’s pregnant with twins. The first in my family to be born In Britain in over 200 years. 🇬🇧🤝🇺🇸
Most Americans: "we kicked the Brits asses in the revolutionary war." Brits: "Have you heard about the war of 1812?" Americans: "Nope, who fought in that war?"
Well again that’s because nobody win the war of 1812. The real losers were Spain and the natives. And Americans know the war well. Our national anthem is from the war.
@@TheIceman567 Better take a poll on that one. No one Ive ever spoken to knows the war. and the anthem? they could care less about that either. Technically Britain was ahead of the game when they decided it wasn't worth it. Did anyone gain land? No Did Britain defend its colonies? yes. Treaty of Ghent was a nicety of the British. They didn't have to do anything.
Edward Teach lol 😂 first off the war wasn’t over Canada. In fact the only nation that demanded any land was the British an Indian buffer state and Maine and Minnesota. The British even held on to east port Maine until 1818. A poll done I guess so since you haven’t spoken to everybody. The treaty of Ghent was real nice to the USA. They (the British) did first off at Ghent agreed to stop supporting the natives on the frontiers (us goal) two orders in council were repealed during the war. Not one American ship was stopped during the 100 days of Napoleon not an American sailor impressed. The British government agreed to compensate the Us for damages and even agreed to fishing rights for American vessels in canadian waters and the USA walked away with Carleton island in Canada and West Florida. So, very nice nicety by the British for the treaty of Ghent. May I suggest you study the war before you comment next time. Britain did in fact do a lot during Ghent. Because you obviously know nothing of the war either. Really, Ive been to Britain, my fiancé is British not to many Brits know about the war either. So, your saying because of the people you’ve spoken to who know nothing about the war means out of 320 million people nobody else knows the war? That is by far the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
Years ago I did a research project on the local First-Nations tribe here: The Menominee. The leader of that left flank who killed Holmes was the Menominee war chief: "Tomah". According to Menominee sources they were fully responsible for turning back Americans here while the British were slow to mobilize. The Menominee considered Mackinac an important cultural location and Tomah allegedly fell into depression and died days after the Treaty of Ghent. Source: A Tomah Biography written by his descendants. It was a difficult find, your local college library might have a copy.
"We weren't Mel Gibson with a tomahawk" - You can say that again. Did the US have ANY successful land campaigns in Wo1812? On the water though they gave better than they got...
@@grahamhodge8313 - 6 frigates, even big frigates, against the Royal Navy, when RN had what 300 6th rates and better on the water? More? I get it, they were spread out all over the world, but it is a wonder that that USN was ever able to establish tactical superiority and win. Still, the waves were always going to be ruled by Britannia.
I live in Michigan, been to Mackinack multiple times didn’t know there was a battle over it, they only ever talked about the fights with the natives on the mainland by the island
@@Dogpilot_NordKS I don't think either of those are humiliating, both involved hard fighting and great risk. Sometimes a loss is a loss, you can either act all sad, or take it and try to do better the next time.
@@BlindingGlow I don't understand the food comments anyway as the British eat food from all around the world. When you talk about British food specifically and name examples they may be relatively plain but they are generally nice i.e. Shepherds Pie, Beef Wellington, Yorkshire Pudding (with a roast dinner) etc. Most of the time people criticising British food do not mention a specific dish that is supposedly horrible.
Great Video. I made a point to see the battle sites years ago when I was on Mackinac Island. The U.S. does not put much into remembering most of our defeats outside of Pearl Harbor and Little Big Horn. You need to do a video on the Defeat of Authur St. Clair in 1791 by First Nations in Ohio. The scale of defeat makes Little Big Horn look puny. Unfortunately, there is very little commemoration of that battle other than a monument and a small state historic site in Fort Recovery Ohio.
1:58 is a painting of the parliement of Montréal being burned down by angry english Tories about indemnisations for victims of the 1837-1839 repressions of the Patriotes Rebellions of Lower Canada. It would be fun if you could make a video about my Québecois history ;)
So I like your content and was going through your old videos, but at 1:57 you used the painting L'incendie du Parlement à Montréal by Joseph Légaré to illustrate the attack on Detroit .... weird flex man???
The history we learned in school was full of ommissions and even some falsehoods, We did better against Stone age hunter gatherer's than other comparable enemy's, but we don't like to talk about that.
Not so. Battle of New Orleans was serious payback. Even Alexander the Great had a bad day now and then. He nearly lost his ass at the battle of the Persian Gate.
@@SilveradoShootingAcademy Except that that battle should never have happened as the war was already over. And unlike the catchy song the British did not 'run all down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico'! Colonel Packenham led an assault on the town during which (leading from the front) he was tragically killed in action. The attack was beaten off and the British forces regrouped to attack again the following day. Before they could, news of the peace treaty arrived and the attack was called off.
@@plymouth5714 I was told that false story in grade school. The truth is the war was not over and the treaty was pending ratification but the British would have reneged it had they won. This is why real history needs to be taught. The battle did determine the outcome of the war.
Your mocking sarcasm of the fact the American lost so many men is in this battle is not appreciated. It is quite frankly sick that you should take such joy in the death of your own countrymen. Just to let you know, Mr "History Man", the first battle was the British pulling a "Pearl Harbor" by attacking us without warning.
I don't think he means it ..to be fair ..but its not aspirated the USA declared war on Great Britain in June 1812 the British and co attack in July 1812 Britain cant be held responsible for lack of communication on the USAs part .. the British were not out to murderer every 1 .. 1 shot from the cannon, and the poor commander knew he was beaten, out numbered, lost the high ground, what could he do ..
I disagree that he was disrespectful of those that died in those battles. In regards to mocking people of your own nation, this is fine especially if the decision is worth mocking. Custer deserves mockery and I sympathise for every man that he led into death. I mock the chain of command that led to the charge of the light brigade but respect the valour and bravery (even if foolish) of the men that rode in it.
The British most likely had studied the features of the island and prepared plans for dealing with attack from several likely landing sites. Now that's soldiering (and still is). In similar situations reversed, the attacking British had been known to land and attack from more than one direction; sometimes one would be a feint, sometimes not; so to attempt to undermine just such preparations.
Often in the day and age of this engagement, audacity and a bit of planning could win the day. So many battles in this time period depended on these small but important factors.
As a Brit, I was sorry to hear how badly lieutenant Hanks was treated. His death was an undeserved fate for someone who did his best for his outnumbered and unprepared men.
Well as someone from Michigan I can say that I already knew this,But like it’s kinda pathetic how bad we did,And visiting Mackinaw island is always an amazing thing to do
Just one of many, many, maaannnyyy battles that shows the military is nowhere near as competent as they want everyone to believe. Catch is: by wiping such defeats from the books they only encourage future disasters. Great little video! Hilarious ending with the final battle to! Your flank gets flanked so instead of going "ah, okay, we can handle this, send in X company and form a new line" they just ran like hell.
I live in Michigan, and I've been to Mackinac many times. It always strikes me that for a British soldier, being assigned to northern Michigan in 1812 would have been worse than being assigned to Singapore or Sumatra in 1940. Total wilderness, no help available. If you were injured or became ill, you died.
There are (small) mass graves up there of redcoats who died of smallpox and scurvy.
plenty of men recuperated. peace time deaths from injury and illness were rather low. In war time more pronounced due to the surgeons focusing on battle wounds. and other factors.
What are small mass Graves?
@@Wally-pu2hh small in size large in number
Fort Detroit was definitely the most humiliating defeat for the Americans in the war.
2,500 US soldiers, hundreds of civilians, a fort, an entire town and a warship surrendered to a British and Indian force of 1,300 and virtually without a fight because William Hull was terrified of Indians, which Sir Issac Brock obviously used to his advantage.
To correctly calculate your odds of victory for every 1 US civilian subtract the registration of 140 US soldiers to the equation.
Lol, there was worse than that. The Battle of Lacole Mills saw the US troops, 4000 strong, flee the battlefield against the British/Canadian forces who only numbered some 500 in total. Major General James Wilkinson, the US commander, was subsequently relieved of command.
However, at the start of the battle, there was only 80 Brits against 4000! The reinforcements arrived to bump up to 500 on the british side. Insance odds.
@@thefantasyreview8709 In the first Battle of Lacole Mills a little over 500 British troops and Mohawk warriors under Saliberry crushed Dearborn's force of 6,000 who were firing on each other in the dark.
I would have thought the capture of Washington, eating the presidents lunch, and then burning the White house down in just a raid was far more humiliating, but sensitivities vary.
@@jonathanscott7372 I suppose there were various humiliating defeats for the Americans.
This is the most underrated channel on UA-cam. Love your stuff
I'm flattered, thank you so much!
Seconded!
Couldnt agree more.
Not anymore. Today he has 44k subscribers. He literally grows so fast!
Now he's got hundreds of thousands of subs, and he deserves it, damn it.
The Empire: Total War background music was a nice touch
It’s a period appropriate British marching tune called The British Grenadiers.
I'm aware, I was referring to the sound file at 3:20, not The British Grenadiers.
that's the british grenadiers song.
not original the total war music
@@newadam573 yes it is
I know, I wasn't referring to the British Grenadiers (the song at the beginning) I was referring to the orchestral music in the background which as far as my research goes, is an original composition for that game's soundtrack. I am referring to a different song entirely.
The boyscouts are responsible for raising and lowering the flags at 2:15, and many others around the island to include the cemetery. When I volunteered for the detail, we were drilled extensively before being sent to the island for a week so we looked very professional marching, and raising and lowering the flags. It was really fun and we lived on the island for a whole week.
@Tom Sanders IRA? Irish Republican Army?
@Tom Sanders damn, didn't know the boy scouts ever did anything beyond camping trips really (not that anything is wrong with camping trips).
Let this be a lesson. Never build a fort on the second highest hill.
I mean.... Fort mackinac is on a cliff that overlooks the harbor. Fort George holds no greater strategic significance other than being on slightly higher ground than fort Mackinac. You can't see the water from Fort George, So it would be pointless to build there.
@@darkhobo Except to protect the first fort.
@@darkhobo A great fort overlooking a harbour is pointless if the enemy can just easily sneak up and take the high ground anyway.
@@ANWRocketMan no. You defend the most defensible spot. You dont assume the enemy knows your weakness, or assume they are going to pull off a risky maneuver, like off-boarding their troops against shear cliffs.
The Spartans held at the narrowest point at Thermopalye. They knew of the goat path. They knew if the Persians discovered it they would be flanked. They didnt set their shield wall on the goat path. You dont set a defense with the expectation of the enemy flanking you. You set your defense at the best, most defensible spot.
@@darkhobo Sounds like a great way to get yourself flanked
Didn't realize that blockhouse was on Mackinac, now I want to go visit again!
Jack Rackam it's my favorite spot on the island!
@@AtunSheiFilms one summer I went to the island with my boyscout troop must have been '05 or '06 long before the fort had been rebuilt. There was only the faintest sign that a building had ever stood there. I climbed to the top of the earthen mound where the walls once were and are again and looked out on the lake as the sun was setting. I felt so at peace surrounded by such beauty. If I had died in that moment, I thought, even at the age of 11 or 12 that would have been a life worth living. Thank you for this video, and reminding me of that time. I may have been a bit melodramatic as a boy but that memory still sticks with.
@@cornerdav oh man. My wife and I got married on devils night and honeymooned on mackinac. Thing is, island mostly closes on Halloween so we had the island more or less to ourselves (there were workers and residents and one other honeymooning couple) it was AMAZING! I highly recommend visiting in the off season.
@michael dowson And Fort Mackinac's predecessor, Fort Michilimackinac just across the straits to the south. At one time, the longest continuous archaeological excavation in North America. There's an interesting story there that took place during Pontiac's Uprising.
Loved this! My girlfriend and I just visited today and left awestruck by the sights but wanted to learn more...this video was a perfect history lesson-keep them coming!
Glad you enjoyed it! I went with my girlfriend too, on the trip when we filmed this - it's such a cool place.
As someone from Mackinaw City, I truly appreciate this video. I didn't even know people outside of Northern Michigan had even heard of this battle.
something we Brits learned very early, your gonna have heroic victories, humiliating defeats, the works. the trick is to learn from your mistakes
When did we learn that?
Duh! We had that sorted by the Roman invasion!
Most of us learn from our mistakes just well enough. Even though our enthusiastic pride doesn’t want us to dwell on negativities but we all still understand defeats.
@@torinjones3221 over the course of two thousands years of war
@@torinjones3221 Exactly. All evidence from this septic Isle of late has made it clear that we haven't learned a darn thing from our mistakes. If we had, the Tories would never win another election.
As someone who also played a living historian up here in Canada, I can confidently say I now, and always will know every word to British Grenadiers. Love your material! Keep up the great work my Friend!
You might be interested to know that in Britain “artillery men” are officially known as “gunners”. Not a correction than some information.
Strictly speaking 'gunner' is the basic rank i.e. a private. Ranks above that are lance-bombardier and bombardier then normal army ranks such as sergeant are used.
faeembrugh it’s also used in the same way that anyone serving in the Grenadier Guards is a Grenadier, or the Royal Anglians is an Anglian, or the Irish Guards is a Mick, for example.
@@keithorbell8946 Yeah, to add to that. Literally in this period, the rank of "Private" did not exist. Whilst it might be a term that people were familiar with, ranks were relative to the regiment. However, in this period a person of the Foot Guards, were Guardsmen- not Grenadiers. In this period you were a Grenadier if you were of the rightmost flank company, the Grenadier Company. Additionally, the Grenadier Guards were not given that nickname until after the Battle of Waterloo where they beat the Old Guard and earned their bearskins as a token of defeating the Old Guard who wore bearskins. Regardless, another good example would be the Royal Welch Fusiliers privates were "Fusiliers." Or the His Majesty's Marine Forces (the RMC name of the period) was a "Marine."
Graham the Grenadier sobriquet to the 1st Foot Guards is actually a misnomer, they incorrectly identified the Old Guard regiment they drove back as the Grenadiers a Pied, when in fact it was the Chasseurs a Pied. The Foot guards did wear bearskins before Waterloo, but only for ceremonial purposes and of the British Pattern, rather than the Napoleonic French Pattern they adopted after the Battle of Waterloo.
@@keithorbell8946 And? The "Chasseurs-à-Pied de la Garde Impériale" was still of the Old Guard. Light infantry or not they still wore Bearskins, and were still part of the Old Guard. Also yes they wore them for parade, that is well known. I was distinguishing that they didn't wear them on the field pre-1815. But regardless, that was hardly my point- I was simply correcting an error you made.
All of my daughters have been Mackinac Island Honor Scouts. We love the island and visit almost every year. Thanks for the wider audience for this important piece of American history.
I feel very sorry for the American lieutenant. If he had not surrendered, his tiny garrison would most certainly have been wiped out by the numerically superior British-Canadian army. then to be decapitated by a British cannonball in a place where he was to be held for trial for doing what was best for his men seems like a harsh injustice.
@@dominiquecharriere1285 And then, when the fort was inevitably taken after a week or so, the Indians would have swarmed the place and committed atrocities on every member of the garrison, living or dead. The British would not have been able to restrain them -- even if inclined to do so. By not resisting, the LT was presumably able to negotiate the terms of a surrender that included guarantees as to the safety of the garrison and granting of the honors of war.
Dominique Charriere like you wouldn’t do the same? It was not ‘Call of duty’ and battle with keyboards!!
@@roberthaworth8991 Oh.... like when the American forces led by Henry Harrison slaughtered the women and children in Prophetstown a few years earlier?
War of 1812 consisted of many blunders on each side and should never have had occurred. I believe the Americans had different views and style of fighting battles than European countries. Surrender to avoid a massacre of your troops was more common in Europe. I believe the American lieutenant did the correct decision for his men and their families. Would the scarification of these men for American pride desired a few be justified when the island was returned to the USA after the war. The lieutenant should be acknowledged for not wasting the lives of his men in a situation where there was no possible alternative outcome from fighting to the last man.
Better said, than done !@@dominiquecharriere1285
Thank you for doing this battle justice. I visited the grounds as a kid and didn’t pay it too much heed for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Wish I had, sounds like an interesting battle tactically.
Ah Mackinac one of my favorite places to go, friend of mine has a little house out there. Such a great bike ride around the island
Loved the video! Me and the old man have been going here every year for YEARS. Yet it still amazes and astonishes me
I visit Mackinaw island once every other year. Fantastic to see a history lesson from you for a place where I have such fond memories.
Oh my God! I had no idea they rebuilt Fort Holmes! I was a guide on Mackinac Island for 6 years. My last year being 2014. It was only a foundation and gate when I was there. Good to see it restored.
Love you channel ! I just found it funny that you used a painting of the burning of the Parliament in Montreal in 1849 at 1:53. Keep up the good work !
My wife worked for a summer on Mackinac, I stayed up there for a couple weeks, cool place to visit. The fort is pretty cool; always wanted to know more about it, amazing video man.
I can’t believe I saw this video a year after you visited Mackinac while I was a historical interpreter. This is very well made!
Superb presentation! It always amazes me how by far most of the battles of 1812 were American defeats, but thanks to Fort McHenry and Andy Jackson we can call it a "victory" and rally round the flag anyways.
Great video sir!
Actually, if you look at a list of battles fought by both sides, to include naval engagements, skirmishes, raids, etc, the list of wins/losses for both sides is pretty close to being even. The difference is that one side has numerous allies and an entire empire backing it. The other did not. We just tend to over-fixate on the opening year of the war, which was, in fact, defeat after defeat for the United States. However, by 1813-1814, the United States in many ways was gaining momentum and had won a string of victories against the British.
@@DirtyMikeandTheBoys69 fair point, but it was more the british stopped winning battles and they became draws. by 1814 the americans were making some headway in Canada but the ground they were taking by no means was worth the casulies being inflicted. the Battle of Bladensbug and the burning of Washington were both in 1814. On the other hand, I forgot about the Battle of the Thames, which was probably a more important battle in the long run than any of the other battles. A signal-and sad-defeat of the last gasp of Anglo-Indian cooperation.
The War of 1812 has been called the perfect war. The Americans think we won. The Canadians think they won and the British don't even remember it ever happening.
I grew up in Fremont Ohio where on August first and second 1812 then Major George Croghan commanded Ft Stephenson against a British and Native attack which is still remembered today. Nearby was the naval Battle of Lake Erie (Put in Bay) the following month, again remembered in the area. This was the first I heard of Croghan's defeat at Mackinac Island. Thank you for remembering a forgotten war
Correction Battle of Ft Stephenson was 1813
I'm very excited that I'll have been here when you were under 50k because if you keep the quality up you'll easily hit 1M.
2 years must be one of the longest awaited counter attacks ever :-) Great channel keep up the good work!
From this area of Michigan, nice to see someone cover it's history
(It's crazy cuz he prolly passed through my town)
Love the bridge
St Ignace?
The biggest reason I clicked on the video was to see if you would pronounce "Mackinac" correctly.
And did he?
aykhan aliyev yes.
It doesn't help that Mackinaw city is across the Straits.
Me too! And yes he did.
Tally wack macinac !
On a train, crossing Ontario, l was reading to my wife an account of the 1812 war, a somewhat bias pro US compilation, a Canadian couple sitting in front of us, turned around and put matters very straight, then a chap behind joined in. Caught between their crossfire, only our English accents saved us.
That’s Canada for you.
Lol. I'm not suprised. America is a touchy subject in Canada. They're always trying to take credit from us. The war of 1812, made us Canadians. Before that, US, Canada, Mexico were all Americans. Our brothers attacked us, and we were appalled! The rally cry became We Are Not Americans! And we stated calling ourselves Canadian. I think everything we've done since as a country, including our politeness, is because we're still trying to prove We Are Not Americans.
We're better than that.
sarablueshoes lol really? What are they teaching you in Canada? Mexico was never American nor was Canada. Canada became Canada after the rebellions of 1837-38 which lead to the union act of 1841.
sarablueshoes and what credit are the Americans taking from Canada?
@@TheIceman567 North America, dumass. As in the New World or The Americas. Back when there were no countries, only colonies.
You can never truly appreciate a victory until you have tasted defeat. A lesson us English learned a long long time ago.
Very interesting! top notch video as ALWAYS! Keep the videos coming please!
Great video. I love the battle visualizations.
I am Scottish and visited the island many years ago whilst staying with relatives in the States and Canada. Such a beautiful place, wished we British had kept it, Lol.
When men wanted to be free the empire lost it all.
We gave up 'Grande Portage" as well. My grandfather was in the WW1 Signal Corp. out of Duluth, even though by WW1 he was homesteading in Canada and beginning to chase grandma in S.Dakota.
There were many American defeats in the War of 1812 ,Stoney Creek 1813 ,Crysler Farm 1813 , but thank you for posting this, I have not heard of this battle .
IDK if you meant to do this, but the photo of Fort Wayne you used is from the fort in Fort Wayne, Indiana, not the Fort Wayne that was in Detroit - either way, I love your content - I'd love to see you cover both the Siege Of Detroit and the Siege Of Fort Wayne
I was astounded to see you give the straights some attention to the channel. It really feels like a less spoken spart to a less spoken of war. Not many outside of us Michiganders give it any attention. Thanks for the love.
Even Michiganders largely ignore the War of 1812. It’s poorly taught in the high schools (and by poorly I mean the Battle of New Orleans and Fort McHenry aren’t even covered). None of my friends knew about it. Heck I literally went to college on an old fort and no one quite seemed to know why the fort was there, and the answer was the War of 1812.
Go to the Henry Ford museum and there’s an exhibit on the Revolution, Civil War, and Civil Rights but literally the war partially waged 20 min from there isn’t mentioned.
@@ninjagirl226 oh completely true. But I grew up near Mackinac. It wasn't hard to ignore, but a bit more in your face than the rest of the trolls (people who live south of the bridge).
Great video!
Thanks for watching!
thank you for talking about mackinac island i live about 90 miles from it in the UP
I live here and am embarrassed to say I didn't know we lost Fort Mackinac.
@Frankly Frank Nobody mentioned anyone named Columbus, kill joy. Do you live near an airport by chance?
Even if you studied every book you still really wouldn't know the truth. Not an insult it's just a fact, winners write history.
The fort literally has the carp animatronic thing about the surrender of the fort. If you’ve been there and haven’t seen it something is wrong my dude...
@@vacayooper4728
The Americans didnt win that war though
We need a million of you to do tours at every museum.
Have you ever checked into the relationship between Tecumseh and General Isaac Brock? They took Detroit by a ruse de guerre with an agreement that if Tecumseh's Indigenous force supported the British to be victorious there would be a third country west of the Mississippi for the Indian Nations. But Tecumseh died at the Battle of the Thames and Brock as the hero of Queenston Heights leaving the interests of First Nations a bargaining chip for the English to mollify US interests and re-establish the border to it's pre-war status. Imagine if there had been such a third country in North America...anyway, big fan of Tecumseh, this might be a worthy topic to consider for your splendorous video prowess!
Sir Brock and Tecumseh's capture of Detroit was perhaps the most impressive victory of the war.
"Imagine if there had been such a third country in North America"
I don't think that would have stood the test of time. The Americans would eventually just have brushed it aside.
Tecumseh tried his best to unify the tribes but came up short with tribal differences and Henry Harrison taking 13 million acres of Indiana from his beleaguered sub chiefs in a phony treaty signing....
I love Mackinac Island. It was always the best part of visiting relatives in Michigan. About ten years ago, my family went back there and I finally got my husband and then nine-year old son to visit. No kidding, we actually saw the Harlem Globetrotters shooting baskets on the cargo boat from our ferry boat. They were visiting the island for a public appearance and we eventually met up with them at Fort Michilimackinac. We got to do some of the early American dancing with them. They were lovely young men, and I really felt for the poor guy in the Globy costume in the July sunshine. My husband and I had to explain to our son about the TV trope of every sitcom and cartoon in the'70s meeting the Harlem Globetrotters. This just exemplifies our crazy, sitcom life!
I wouldn’t call this battle a bloodbath in comparison to the battle of Lundy’s Lane.
Well done young man congrats and thanks!
Thanks! Please note we never say Native Americans. Canadians say First Nations in a general way or name the nation: Algonquin, Anishnaabe, etc.
For the record, the indigenous peoples allied to or in the uniform of the Crown Forces would have in these actions (Mackinac 1812, 1814) been Anishnaabe and Metis. I'm a descendant of two of them.
Socially Distant , Métis People are from the Red River area in what is now Manitoba and they did not fight of the Crown in this war. The word does not mean “mixed” or non-Status or off-Reserve. Maybe you mean what we call small-m métis.
@@janetteplatana4742 Well, Janette, you might like to tell that to the Metis Nation of Ontario. And I'd guess you're not aware that many western Canadian Metis are descendants of Great Lakes Metis voyageurs who moved west as the fur trade in north-western Ontario died out in the 1830's.
@@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry, beginning a reply to me “Well, Janette” is a signal you want a fight, and I am not interested. Of course, Métis from the Red resettled around the Lakes and other fur trade routes; no argument from me. Nor is it news to me. Claw it back. MNO is problematic. I will refer you to raceshifting.com. I will not reply again. This is my area of funded, academic research, and I ask you to not assume you can school me on it.
@@janetteplatana4742 ua-cam.com/video/bVK6lhpL8iU/v-deo.html
Nice, a small bit of great lakes history I can tell my lads.
I really enjoyed visiting Mackinac Island and the fort.
One of the fort's (American) doctors, William Beaumont was well known for performing experiments on/with a soldier that was wounded by an accidental discharge and ended up with an open hole in his stomach. Beaumont would suspend all sorts of things on strings and dip them into the stomach to study the effects and nature of digestive acids. Pretty gross, and the ethics were questionable, but I guess it was a breakthrough in GI tract science.
The subject of Beaumont's experiments tried to run away from him but Beaumont just kept tracking him down and bringing him back.
Very nice documention of this historical event for USA and Canad. I am glad to have found this channel :)
“It was strange, and in some perverse way resolutely American, that these two carriers wallowing in the dusk bore names which memorialized not stirring victories but humiliating defeats, as if by thus publishing her indifference to catastrophe and her willingness to surmount it, the United States were defying her enemies.” - James A. Michener
The American narrative of..'We won the War of 1812@ when in fact they won 4 naval actions and a battle that was fought after the war was over. The Treaty of ghent restored the status quo ante bellum so essentially the USA achieved none of it's war goals.
@@jamesmaclennan4525 What were the war goals on each side? did both accomplish them? Britain being the most powerful nation on earth with the largest navy at the time im sure they should've accomplished their goals very easily compared to some upstart nation that defeated them 30 years prior. The Americans fought the most power nation to a standstill and put a huge stamp towards the end when they delivered a crushing defeat at New Orleans against a British force composed of veterans from the Napoleonic Wars. I'd say thats a pretty good accomplishment for a nation that had no navy and barely an army. I'd say thats pretty humiliating for the British.
@@stuka80
New Orleans "towards the end"?
It was after the end. It was irrelevant, apart from assuaging US pride, especially after battles such as this and the Bladensburg Races.
As for British war aims? Simple, maintain the status quo, seeing as Britain didn't want a war in the first place.....we were rather busy with that Napoleon chap.
As the status quo was pretty much preserved in the Treaty, I'd say that the UK achieved its aims.
If New Orleans hadn't been fought, the war would have been a bit of an embarrassment for the US on land.
They did better at sea, but a few minor one sided, ship to ship actions in no way disrupted the total dominance of the Royal Navy.
@@stuka80 Never ask a question in an argument unless you know the answer, my man
The Poms achieved their war goals of maintaining the status quo, 1812 was undoubtedly a British victory
@@thehappyaussie8907 This thread is basically composed of British or former Commonwealth trying to convince yourselves with a clear bias. The funny thing is you guys accuse Americans of being delusional and claiming victory and you're doing the same exact thing, so i'm not really surprised. I sensed that with the very first person and everyone else who responded.
As far as maintaining status quo as a war aim, you can technically say you achieved it, but you can't claim a victory over the Americans either when the war was fought to a standstill. Especially being the premier power over the day they couldn't subdue a nation that couldn't even compare to Napoleonic France.
The British strategical aims were not successfull and as i mentioned, at New Orleans an inferior American force smashed a superior British force and killed its commander. In the moral sense that gives for a very good reason why some Americans would believe that they won it. Complaining about how the battle took place after the treaty....might i remind you, it was the british who attacked New Orleans after the treaty was sign, they initiated the battle, the Americans just ended it in crushing fashion. So like i said, you can't claim that you achieved victory which implies you militarily defeated an enemy, you are being disingenious and very bias clearly by stating that. Its like the biggest meanest guy in the block fighting a kid and the big guy's goal is to not get ko'd. Then after a back and forth fight, claims victory because they didn't get ko'd by the kid, clearly laughable, like this status quo victory claim. The Americans went to war because of British interference of their trade and pressing sailors into the Royal Navy, after the war that stopped. So should the Americans claim victory as well? Yes that is an argumentative question that you can answer.
Good job! Thanks for posting this!
When i was growing up i only k ew of the fall of the fort, it was only until i was in my senior year of high school did i learn about the US contour attact. My family and i visited the island later that summer and i went to the 1814 battlefield for thw first time. I wish this was tought in schools when kids learn about our states history, since this is the only war to be fought in Michigan.
And with this I have offically learned something new today.
Always a good day.
excellent history
Cool, those star forts are everywhere, massive stone structures apparently built by the horse and cart crowd. Mighty clever those pioneers.
Great video! Awesome channel!
Hope you consider doing a few collabs soon. Would really get more eyes on your content, I think.
Anyhow, thanks for the solid engaging vids you got here!
Peace!
One of the most beautiful places you’ll ever visit.
THIS is all our history, today USA UK and Canada are good friends and allies
Are you British?
Refreshing point of view!
90% of the internet is, "My people rule! My ancestors from 4 centuries ago, tell me it is so!!" Humans would be so much happier if they lived in the present, and cared about the future (as much as they care about the past).
Good stuff. American history is so much more interesting with all the gritty bits left in.
We Canadians are glad we were able to maintain our independence throughout that difficult time.
@@BlindingGlow That's right. And that is how we maintained our independence. We are still a Dominion and we still recognize the Queen. That's why we went to war in 1914 and 1939. We are independent of the USA.
@Richard Schiffman Actually, according to the Canadian Encyclopedia, we still are.
Excellent. Thank you.
HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAR HAD BEEN DECLARED!? It was the American Government that have declared it. The island was attacked NOT for the Empire but for the PROTECTION of British allies that were needed since most of the British armed forces were in EUROPE fighting Napoleon.
News travelled slowly in those days.
@@gavinhudson3064 Which is why the Battle of New Orleans was fought after the peace treaty was signed.
GReat job explaining that. Thank you.
In regards to some of the comments about remembering your defeats I would just like to say Canada has suffered some devastating defeats. Hongkong and Dieppe among the most prominent. Canada is still one of only a very few nations who has never lost a war.
Yes it has the Russian revolution
Wrong you were on the losing side in the american war of independence. You were part of british empire and it does count. If not then you cannot count any victories includcing ww1 and 2
@@Mulberry2000 I think you need to read your history again. There was no Canada in 1776. There were many British Colonies. Some revolted. Canada became a nation in 1867 when British colonies United. Since becoming a nation as I stated Canada has had it's defeats in battle, but has never lost a war. It's just the facts.
@@scallywag6768 I know my history for very well i have two degrees in it. Canada did not become independent in 1867, it was formally joined at the hip to the UK as a dominion. You cannot claim victories while being part the british empire and then ignore the ones that were defeats. Canada was part of the war of independence. You are claiming victory for AWI and war of 1812 for canada only,. Canada did not finaly become independent till the 1980s. It is a fact the canadians were on the losing side in the AWI. Stop being jingoistic. It smells.www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/dominion
@@Mulberry2000 the war of independence was between Britain and what was British Colonies. That's a fact. It was a "Revolution" Canada as a nation did not exist. For someone with 2 degrees in history you aren't very bright adding 2+2 and coming up with 5.
As a student I love your work
Napoleon's dictum
Shore batteries will inevitably prevail over ship bombards.
And another...
Activite activitie activitie
And from Wellington. ...
Never interrupt your enemy when
He is committing an error.
All three appear relevant here.
"Never interrupt your enemy when
he is committing an error."
Isn't that a Napoleon quote, too?
1:53 The painting shows the burning down of the Parliament building in Montreal in 1849 by an angry mob.
Thank you for your interesting video of a little known event!
British soldiers always felt bad about fighting Americans mostly because everyone spoke the same language and in a lot of cases, had relatives on the other side.
Are you British?
@@TheIceman567 English. All the best mate.
timmo491 do you like the USA and Americans?
@@TheIceman567 generally yes i lived there for a while why?
timmo491Cool, I’m American and love the UK. Second, my fiancé is English and she’s pregnant with twins. The first in my family to be born In Britain in over 200 years. 🇬🇧 🏴🤝🇺🇸
What a great video!
It's soooo refreshing to hear an objective, balanced Yankee view of history for a change. Don't talk to me about Mel Gibson's parody of history, making out the British no better than a bunch of NAZI's.
Neither the US or British have clean hands, both have murderous and genocidal histories.
@@comradecam So does the Chinese,the Indians,the Mongols,the Arabs,the Turks,the Japanese and the Zulus.But please,keep hating on whitey.
Hello, I'm from the UK and to be honest, I'm not interested in the problems our two nations have had in the past. I just love the fact that we're best friends now and together we are unstoppable 👍
Love back to our british family from the USA 🇺🇸🤝🇬🇧
Do you live in England if I may ask?
@@TheIceman567 No, I live in Wales. It seems crazy now when you and I think about in reality, the UK AND USA were almost continuously at each other's throats up until the late 1930s.Oh well, that's family for you 😂😉👍
Graham Jones Jason Plessas
cool, I’m American and love the UK. Second, my fiancé is English and she’s pregnant with twins. The first in my family to be born In Britain in over 200 years. 🇬🇧🤝🇺🇸
Graham Jones we also had our moments during WW1 we fought in the same trenches American volunteers in the Royal Air Force
Crushing Defeat is correct
Mackinac Island is home to the Grand Hotel, which was featured in Somewhere in Time.
That makes two of us that saw the movie. I really liked it, Jane Seymour being so easy on the eyes and the filming and music being well done.
Most Americans: "we kicked the Brits asses in the revolutionary war." Brits: "Have you heard about the war of 1812?" Americans: "Nope, who fought in that war?"
Well again that’s because nobody win the war of 1812. The real losers were Spain and the natives. And Americans know the war well. Our national anthem is from the war.
@@TheIceman567 Better take a poll on that one. No one Ive ever spoken to knows the war. and the anthem? they could care less about that either. Technically Britain was ahead of the game when they decided it wasn't worth it. Did anyone gain land? No Did Britain defend its colonies? yes. Treaty of Ghent was a nicety of the British. They didn't have to do anything.
Edward Teach lol 😂 first off the war wasn’t over Canada. In fact the only nation that demanded any land was the British an Indian buffer state and Maine and Minnesota. The British even held on to east port Maine until 1818. A poll done I guess so since you haven’t spoken to everybody. The treaty of Ghent was real nice to the USA. They (the British) did first off at Ghent agreed to stop supporting the natives on the frontiers (us goal) two orders in council were repealed during the war. Not one American ship was stopped during the 100 days of Napoleon not an American sailor impressed. The British government agreed to compensate the Us for damages and even agreed to fishing rights for American vessels in canadian waters and the USA walked away with Carleton island in Canada and West Florida. So, very nice nicety by the British for the treaty of Ghent. May I suggest you study the war before you comment next time. Britain did in fact do a lot during Ghent. Because you obviously know nothing of the war either. Really, Ive been to Britain, my fiancé is British not to many Brits know about the war either. So, your saying because of the people you’ve spoken to who know nothing about the war means out of 320 million people nobody else knows the war?
That is by far the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
@@TheIceman567 Better go do some fucking research arseclown567
@@TheIceman567 Did you get your fiancee to like your dogshit post? LOL
Years ago I did a research project on the local First-Nations tribe here: The Menominee. The leader of that left flank who killed Holmes was the Menominee war chief: "Tomah". According to Menominee sources they were fully responsible for turning back Americans here while the British were slow to mobilize. The Menominee considered Mackinac an important cultural location and Tomah allegedly fell into depression and died days after the Treaty of Ghent.
Source:
A Tomah Biography written by his descendants. It was a difficult find, your local college library might have a copy.
I hope that wasn't tea they were growing in that field or they'd of been really peeved!
Thank you for pronouncing Mackinac correctly
"We weren't Mel Gibson with a tomahawk" - You can say that again. Did the US have ANY successful land campaigns in Wo1812? On the water though they gave better than they got...
True but most of the US ships were bigger than their British adversaries, had larger crews and were made from much stronger American oak trees.
@@grahamhodge8313 - 6 frigates, even big frigates, against the Royal Navy, when RN had what 300 6th rates and better on the water? More? I get it, they were spread out all over the world, but it is a wonder that that USN was ever able to establish tactical superiority and win. Still, the waves were always going to be ruled by Britannia.
I live in Michigan, been to Mackinack multiple times didn’t know there was a battle over it, they only ever talked about the fights with the natives on the mainland by the island
Doesn't seem humiliating to me, just seems like a loss against a hard fighting enemy.
I agree. Americans are just ubersensitive to anything negative about their country. So any defeat is perceived as a "humiliation" by them.
@@Dogpilot_NordKS I don't think either of those are humiliating, both involved hard fighting and great risk. Sometimes a loss is a loss, you can either act all sad, or take it and try to do better the next time.
The Broy
But our foods nice 😂😜
@@BlindingGlow I don't understand the food comments anyway as the British eat food from all around the world. When you talk about British food specifically and name examples they may be relatively plain but they are generally nice i.e. Shepherds Pie, Beef Wellington, Yorkshire Pudding (with a roast dinner) etc. Most of the time people criticising British food do not mention a specific dish that is supposedly horrible.
@me hee I will agree that our food is tasty but it is quite simple and not very varied compared to other nations like Italy, China, Japan, France etc
Great Video. I made a point to see the battle sites years ago when I was on Mackinac Island. The U.S. does not put much into remembering most of our defeats outside of Pearl Harbor and Little Big Horn. You need to do a video on the Defeat of Authur St. Clair in 1791 by First Nations in Ohio. The scale of defeat makes Little Big Horn look puny. Unfortunately, there is very little commemoration of that battle other than a monument and a small state historic site in Fort Recovery Ohio.
Ontarians pushing it for the Empire let's go!!!
great video
1:58 is a painting of the parliement of Montréal being burned down by angry english Tories about indemnisations for victims of the 1837-1839 repressions of the Patriotes Rebellions of Lower Canada. It would be fun if you could make a video about my Québecois history ;)
My earliest Canadian family member was one of the British soldiers who helped put down that rebellion.
The Lower and Upper Canadian Rebellions don't get near enough historical attention.
@@davidolie8392 Very true, the only one you hear about is the Red River Rebellion
So I like your content and was going through your old videos, but at 1:57 you used the painting L'incendie du Parlement à Montréal by Joseph Légaré to illustrate the attack on Detroit .... weird flex man???
The history we learned in school was full of ommissions and even some falsehoods, We did better against Stone age hunter gatherer's than other comparable enemy's, but we don't like to talk about that.
Not so. Battle of New Orleans was serious payback. Even Alexander the Great had a bad day now and then. He nearly lost his ass at the battle of the Persian Gate.
@@SilveradoShootingAcademy Except that that battle should never have happened as the war was already over. And unlike the catchy song the British did not 'run all down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico'! Colonel Packenham led an assault on the town during which (leading from the front) he was tragically killed in action. The attack was beaten off and the British forces regrouped to attack again the following day. Before they could, news of the peace treaty arrived and the attack was called off.
@@plymouth5714 I was told that false story in grade school. The truth is the war was not over and the treaty was pending ratification but the British would have reneged it had they won. This is why real history needs to be taught. The battle did determine the outcome of the war.
Rosco P. Coltrane : so how come Canada exists?
That is the danger of victors history. World Conflict history is loaded with only one side.
same story at Ft Ticonderoga in NY, they built a nice fort, but didn't protect the higher ground (within cannon shot range)
Your mocking sarcasm of the fact the American lost so many men is in this battle is not appreciated. It is quite frankly sick that you should take such joy in the death of your own countrymen. Just to let you know, Mr "History Man", the first battle was the British pulling a "Pearl Harbor" by attacking us without warning.
I don't think he means it ..to be fair ..but its not aspirated
the USA declared war on Great Britain in June 1812 the British and co attack in July 1812 Britain cant be held responsible for lack of communication on the USAs part .. the British were not out to murderer every 1 .. 1 shot from the cannon, and the poor commander knew he was beaten, out numbered, lost the high ground, what could he do ..
You know it was the USA that declared war right? Did the USA declare war on Japan in 1941 but forget to tell Pearl Harbour?
I disagree that he was disrespectful of those that died in those battles. In regards to mocking people of your own nation, this is fine especially if the decision is worth mocking. Custer deserves mockery and I sympathise for every man that he led into death. I mock the chain of command that led to the charge of the light brigade but respect the valour and bravery (even if foolish) of the men that rode in it.
I'm just thankful he pronounced mackinac the right way. Too many people don't!
Wish I would've seen you filming on the island, would've been cool to see.
That Holmes guy sounds pretty awesome
Maybe you're confusing him with John.
This is awesome!
I’m addicted to empire total war as it is the best tw game and I started convulsing once I heard the music
The British most likely had studied the features of the island and prepared plans for dealing with attack from several likely landing sites. Now that's soldiering (and still is). In similar situations reversed, the attacking British had been known to land and attack from more than one direction; sometimes one would be a feint, sometimes not; so to attempt to undermine just such preparations.
The artful use of deception is often the deciding factor in the outcome of a battle.
Love that you use total war soundtrack
Often in the day and age of this engagement, audacity and a bit of planning could win the day. So many battles in this time period depended on these small but important factors.
As a Brit, I was sorry to hear how badly lieutenant Hanks was treated. His death was an undeserved fate for someone who did his best for his outnumbered and unprepared men.
Good video 👍
Well as someone from Michigan I can say that I already knew this,But like it’s kinda pathetic how bad we did,And visiting Mackinaw island is always an amazing thing to do
1812 war was a secret alliance with Napoleon France to land grab British territory while Britain was occupied fighting in Europe.
Hard to believe they thought Napoleon would win at Waterloo and the British would not want their property back.
Do he USA have no ties to Napoleon
Just one of many, many, maaannnyyy battles that shows the military is nowhere near as competent as they want everyone to believe. Catch is: by wiping such defeats from the books they only encourage future disasters. Great little video! Hilarious ending with the final battle to! Your flank gets flanked so instead of going "ah, okay, we can handle this, send in X company and form a new line" they just ran like hell.