I've worked through all of Professor Carveth's lecture videos and am gratefully stunned by the clarity of explanation. It is extremely generous of Prof. Carveth and his institution to post this material on You Tube. Thank you so very much.
James, I think most Kleinians would consider such healthy assertiveness as part of healthy functioning in the depressive position. But I agree that the PS/D dichotomy is problematic. For one thing it implies we are either in one position or the other, while I feel we are always in both. Freud reveals how we are always both Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. So while I may be consciously in DI think I am unconsciously also in PS to some degree. In my recent book in one of the later chapters I offer a critique of Neo-Kleinian theory in which, thnking dialectically, I offer a synthesis transcending both PS and D and which I write PsD. I think this may address some of your concerns. Best, Don
Having watched all of Dr Carveth's videos, I've learned so much. One issue with Kleinianism is that the shifts between PS and D don't seem to be mediated by a psychological structure that could manage the oscillations. I get the picture that one is always either in PS or in D in a strictly bifurcated way. In PS, the experience of perceived threat, defensiveness and aggressive posturing predominates. In D the experience of thoughtful reflectiveness toward the end of reparation predominates. But the healthy expression of aggression, in my opinion, neither allows for unrestrained expression (PS) nor the drive to eliminate it entirely (D). Imagine a person who is healthfully assertive, who neither over-blows threats and slights nor explains them all away. For example, the boss who quietly and compassionately fires the employee who has been late every day for three weeks straight. This kind of appropriate assertiveness in one which maintains boundaries without violent expressions of anger is a fused state that has elements of both PS and D. I just don't see how Kleinian Theory as described by Dr Carveth would allow for this fusion as there doesn't seem to be a mechanism by which the oscillations between PS and D can be managed, blended, reflected upon, etc. One advantage of Ego Psychology is that executive functions can be assigned to one or a combination of the structures of the personality. Ther
Hello Mr Carveth as reading isn't one of my strengths watching and listening to your lecture videos does support me better to understand theory and the theorists themselves, its much appreciated.
In recent years I have returned to reading Klein and it has helped me a lot in my therapeutic work as a clinical and educational psychologist. About two years ago I retired and prepared a special lecture about her at the farewell party, a lecture that provided me with an "excuse" to deepen my knowledge of her approach. You repeat many times that Klein is also "environmental"... and you are right. In the past I also got this wrong impression! Well, at these time the degree studies were unfortunately quite superficial. And in general, it takes the therapist many years to consolidate and comprehend the various theories, especially the classical ones. Thank you very much for the brilliant lectures on Klein, and I definitely like it when you also express your personal opinions about her and others.
Just noting things I want to remember. At 29:20 or so, ambivalence toward parents, hating those you love, Abraham says is at the center of depression. (So sounds like: extreme disappointment with relationship/ lack of connection with parents -> anger and hostility toward them: forbidden feelings, can't be acted on, so turned on oneself for being so bad for having such feelings.) 53:45: "Depression is so intense he's immobilized. And Abraham understands this motor inhibition as being a result of strong motor impulses to attack that have to be inhibited. My urge to kill, my urge to strike is so strong, and in inhibiting that I have to close down altogether." 57:57: "There's Abraham's theory of depression: revenge and hostility toward the bad mother, while longing for the good mother." Can't believe it wasn't until so recently that I learned that depression is so often anger suppressed and turned on oneself; I imagine that's a point that really ought to be more common knowledge.
Good evening, Don! Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Your lectures are precious. Don, I’ve just purchased two of your books. The Still Small Voice has wonderful start to to it. (The portion about the Victorian couch in your university office: 🙌! ) I’ve got to tell you that your clear and logical writing style is a gift. I wonder if Erich Fromm’s elegant, clear and yet profound, writing style has influenced your own. I heard you mention that he was an inspirational figure for you. He also has been one for me as well! When you mentioned this detail in one of your video-lectures, I began to understand the camaraderie I feel towards you and your work, in spite of not having met you in person. Merci!
Thank you for the greatest lecture. I'm watching this in 2020, and pursuing your other videos. I'm psychology student in Thailand and interest in psychoanalysis, your video help me so much to understand this field. Thank you again.
don't bother. Jung is important mostly for the unification of the animus and anima. he does have important contributions, certainly. However, healing is much easier via Freud and Klein - based on personal empirical experience. My complaint with traditional psychoanalysis in that although infant development is important to understand, early childhood is far more accessible. Therefore, a shift would be relevant in terms of acceptance and understanding by those seeking help. If this were not true, my self analysis would not have been successful, thanks to your finishing touches, Don. @@doncarveth Moreover, not enough importance is given to those mothers who fall in-between the good mother and the bad mother - which in reality most likely encompasses the majority of current western societies - perhaps not during Freud's time.. Good vs bad mother is much easier to define, even while enveloping the necessary splitting phenomenon. (I stand firm with my thoughts.) If there is anything I would like to change, it's the above. Yet, I do not believe anything will happen, as the world is running out of time, and so am I, at age 77.
Don do you have any resources for someone with the schizoid adaptation? I'm finding it increasingly difficult to perform daily and know full-well that my current coping mechanisms are caging me to a lonely terrible life. People try to get close to me and I either lash out in defense or completely ignore them and cut them out of my life. I want to get better but don't know how. My mother locked me in our house and screamed at me when she got home. I learned how to socialize from TV and now I compulsively play video games because that was and is the only thing I have some semblance of control over
My advice is to find a psychotherapist online and begin to talk about all this with him or her. Because of Covid there are many good therapists working by telephone or zoom these days.
There are always be different points of views. And most people even those of intellectual types have not objective but subjective opinions on issues or points of views. The idea which Melanie Klein suggests - "that real good mother can overcome the image of bad mother in child's internal world" sounds pretty real and practical. The are lots of women who can surround a child and in the case if a child can't get a real healing image of his/her own mother, then the child can obtain it from the other women - teachers, nannies, etc. In other words - love heals.
Thank you for the amazing content. I am trying to clarify one thing. When an infant splits, it experiences the maternal object only either in an ideal or devalued way. Is there any repression involved when one of the two happens? When the infant shares an experience with the all-good breast, are the feelings towards the all-bad breast repressed or acted out somehow? When we fall in love and revert to P.S., don't we repress the bad traits of our object of love while projecting onto it only the ideal part? There is no projection of it's bad traits onto someone else, just repression. My question regards what is the relationship between splitting and repression. Thank you in advance.
Splitting is a primitive defence mechanism well repression is a more advanced one. It follows the people may be splitting without repression, but some people who have advanced make sure a mixture of both. I hope that helps.
@@doncarveth It helps a lot. I was wondering where do all the negative emotions go, when an infant is enjoying an experience with the good object. Thank you for your reply.
Iakovos Sianoudis I think it is relevant to ask where do all the negative emotions go when experienced by primates, dogs or cats? I don’t think we attribute repression to animals and also not to infants.
Can you tell me about counselling a child? Is it bad to make them aware of their parents faults? Should they need to believe in their parents being all good to survive childhood
The unconcious fantasy is a very interesting observation of melanie klein,often people in their interactions are kind of inhibited,although there is no really reason for it,or they try to appease someone who in internal reality is a persecutor
I believe that Freud's inability to see his mother as a bad object may not to too far off the mark. It may not relate to all sons and mothers, however. Mothers who were not overtly abusive or demeaning could be the exception. The unconscious need to see our mothers as someone special (especially when that mother is physically beautiful) is powerful. As I look back on the relationship of my brother and mother, it seems that both were unable to see each other as bad. I remember walking into my brother's bedroom early mornings with my mother. I was about 4. My brother was just waking up and was "scratching" his penis. (Or so I thought.) This was nearly a morning ritual. Sometimes my mother would giggle. Then, one morning she said "stop". Later, of course I understood that he was masturbating. My brother always had the hots for my mother; it was very obvious. (Long, sad story.) My brother never put two and two together. To this day, he hates me and refuses to speak with me. All my siblings scapegoated me, especially after I cut all communication from one in late life. The sister, specifically who bullied me, forever - the one having BPD. I, on the other hand also idealized my mother - a carryover from early childhood, even though I was certainly aware of her many deficits from a very early age - 2.5 years old. These emotions almost defy logic. I now fully accept that she was mentally ill. I always loved her, and was always trying to get her to love me, and much later in life I attempted to change her political beliefs, but delusional people are incapable of change. She died at 107 while I was beside her, in her bed, holding her. None of my siblings were present. No one wants to admit that their mother was crazy from the beginning. We all want to believe that our childhood was "normal." Why? Perhaps if our mother was crazy, in implies that we, too, must be crazy. I've never felt, or believed myself to be crazy, and I truly don't know why I could not accept the truth earlier in life. Once accepting mother's tragic life and how her life impacted all family members could be written in a Shakespearean story. All the pieces fit together and a tremendously obscure burden has been removed from my being. Listening to Don the last month or two allowed me to rest my story. I never could have finished my self analysis without Don Carveth's wisdom, broad based theoretical understanding and generous sharing here on UA-cam.. Don, thank you, I am grateful beyond words.
Would you say that freud theoy biologically driven and klein theory is socially driven.the subjective / objective division. We are made of both experiences, the priori and posteriori experiences.
Psyche is pronounced sigh-key. You stumbled over the explanation of why Freud felt hostility toward his mother, with the "golden phallus" imagery and the statement "not loving it for himself," which makes no sense. I felt like there was something important here and I wish you had made it clearer. Why would a woman have golden phallus imagery, and what exactly do all the pronouns you used refer to? Is the author saying Freud's mother didn't love him for the person he was but rather loved some idealized image she had of him?
I've worked through all of Professor Carveth's lecture videos and am gratefully stunned by the clarity of explanation. It is extremely generous of Prof. Carveth and his institution to post this material on You Tube. Thank you so very much.
Agreed, James! So wonderful!
there is nothing clear about this senile rambling
This is the second time I am listening to this cycle of extraordinary lectures. I am full of gratitude
James, I think most Kleinians would consider such healthy assertiveness as part of healthy functioning in the depressive position. But I agree that the PS/D dichotomy is problematic. For one thing it implies we are either in one position or the other, while I feel we are always in both. Freud reveals how we are always both Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. So while I may be consciously in DI think I am unconsciously also in PS to some degree. In my recent book in one of the later chapters I offer a critique of Neo-Kleinian theory in which, thnking dialectically, I offer a synthesis transcending both PS and D and which I write PsD. I think this may address some of your concerns. Best, Don
Having watched all of Dr Carveth's videos, I've learned so much. One issue with Kleinianism is that the shifts between PS and D don't seem to be mediated by a psychological structure that could manage the oscillations. I get the picture that one is always either in PS or in D in a strictly bifurcated way. In PS, the experience of perceived threat, defensiveness and aggressive posturing predominates. In D the experience of thoughtful reflectiveness toward the end of reparation predominates. But the healthy expression of aggression, in my opinion, neither allows for unrestrained expression (PS) nor the drive to eliminate it entirely (D). Imagine a person who is healthfully assertive, who neither over-blows threats and slights nor explains them all away. For example, the boss who quietly and compassionately fires the employee who has been late every day for three weeks straight. This kind of appropriate assertiveness in one which maintains boundaries without violent expressions of anger is a fused state that has elements of both PS and D. I just don't see how Kleinian Theory as described by Dr Carveth would allow for this fusion as there doesn't seem to be a mechanism by which the oscillations between PS and D can be managed, blended, reflected upon, etc.
One advantage of Ego Psychology is that executive functions can be assigned to one or a combination of the structures of the personality. Ther
Hello Mr Carveth as reading isn't one of my strengths watching and listening to your lecture videos does support me better to understand theory and the theorists themselves, its much appreciated.
Thank you, Professor. I just purchased your latest book and look forward to delving into it.
Thank you for uploading this video series. This should make for a fascinating view :)
Thank you for these. I tried to understand Klein by myself 20 years ago and so I am grateful for these as i'm entering further counselling training.
Most welcome. Good luck with the training.
Absolutely stunning series of lectures. Congratulations Professor.
Thank you
Thank you, James.
Ah, here we go. Thanks for this!
Thank you again, Don. Still listening lately, having grown a bit, still going. Much appreciated now as before.
Very good
In recent years I have returned to reading Klein and it has helped me a lot in my therapeutic work as a clinical and educational psychologist. About two years ago I retired and prepared a special lecture about her at the farewell party, a lecture that provided me with an "excuse" to deepen my knowledge of her approach. You repeat many times that Klein is also "environmental"... and you are right. In the past I also got this wrong impression! Well, at these time the degree studies were unfortunately quite superficial. And in general, it takes the therapist many years to consolidate and comprehend the various theories, especially the classical ones. Thank you very much for the brilliant lectures on Klein, and I definitely like it when you also express your personal opinions about her and others.
Thank you and most welcome
Thank you for that nice lecture
Thank you, professor. I hope your book is available in the Philippines.
Just noting things I want to remember. At 29:20 or so, ambivalence toward parents, hating those you love, Abraham says is at the center of depression. (So sounds like: extreme disappointment with relationship/ lack of connection with parents -> anger and hostility toward them: forbidden feelings, can't be acted on, so turned on oneself for being so bad for having such feelings.)
53:45: "Depression is so intense he's immobilized. And Abraham understands this motor inhibition as being a result of strong motor impulses to attack that have to be inhibited. My urge to kill, my urge to strike is so strong, and in inhibiting that I have to close down altogether."
57:57: "There's Abraham's theory of depression: revenge and hostility toward the bad mother, while longing for the good mother."
Can't believe it wasn't until so recently that I learned that depression is so often anger suppressed and turned on oneself; I imagine that's a point that really ought to be more common knowledge.
Good evening, Don! Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Your lectures are precious. Don, I’ve just purchased two of your books. The Still Small Voice has wonderful start to to it. (The portion about the Victorian couch in your university office: 🙌! ) I’ve got to tell you that your clear and logical writing style is a gift. I wonder if Erich Fromm’s elegant, clear and yet profound, writing style has influenced your own. I heard you mention that he was an inspirational figure for you. He also has been one for me as well! When you mentioned this detail in one of your video-lectures, I began to understand the camaraderie I feel towards you and your work, in spite of not having met you in person. Merci!
Raquel, thank you. I hadn’t thought of it before but I think you are right. I read Fromm carefully early on and I guess that influence stuck.
Thanks for this.
Thank you for the greatest lecture.
I'm watching this in 2020, and pursuing your other videos. I'm psychology student in Thailand and interest in psychoanalysis, your video help me so much to understand this field.
Thank you again.
Most welcome
Great stuff 😊
Thanks Lars.
I really enjoy listenning to your lectures/talks, so thank you for providing them. I must also say that I wish you did some on Carl Jung :)
I plan to get around to that
don't bother. Jung is important mostly for the unification of the animus and anima. he does have important contributions, certainly. However, healing is much easier via Freud and Klein - based on personal empirical experience. My complaint with traditional psychoanalysis in that although infant development is important to understand, early childhood is far more accessible. Therefore, a shift would be relevant in terms of acceptance and understanding by those seeking help. If this were not true, my self analysis would not have been successful, thanks to your finishing touches, Don. @@doncarveth Moreover, not enough importance is given to those mothers who fall in-between the good mother and the bad mother - which in reality most likely encompasses the majority of current western societies - perhaps not during Freud's time.. Good vs bad mother is much easier to define, even while enveloping the necessary splitting phenomenon. (I stand firm with my thoughts.) If there is anything I would like to change, it's the above. Yet, I do not believe anything will happen, as the world is running out of time, and so am I, at age 77.
@@bellakrinkle9381 that makes two of us.
Dear prof
I cannot make out the name of Freud case studies you mention
Would you kindly write them in extenso
Thanks
Don do you have any resources for someone with the schizoid adaptation? I'm finding it increasingly difficult to perform daily and know full-well that my current coping mechanisms are caging me to a lonely terrible life. People try to get close to me and I either lash out in defense or completely ignore them and cut them out of my life. I want to get better but don't know how. My mother locked me in our house and screamed at me when she got home. I learned how to socialize from TV and now I compulsively play video games because that was and is the only thing I have some semblance of control over
My advice is to find a psychotherapist online and begin to talk about all this with him or her. Because of Covid there are many good therapists working by telephone or zoom these days.
There are always be different points of views. And most people even those of intellectual types have not objective but subjective opinions on issues or points of views. The idea which Melanie Klein suggests - "that real good mother can overcome the image of bad mother in child's internal world" sounds pretty real and practical. The are lots of women who can surround a child and in the case if a child can't get a real healing image of his/her own mother, then the child can obtain it from the other women - teachers, nannies, etc. In other words - love heals.
Some people bite the hand that feeds them.
Thank you for the amazing content. I am trying to clarify one thing. When an infant splits, it experiences the maternal object only either in an ideal or devalued way. Is there any repression involved when one of the two happens? When the infant shares an experience with the all-good breast, are the feelings towards the all-bad breast repressed or acted out somehow? When we fall in love and revert to P.S., don't we repress the bad traits of our object of love while projecting onto it only the ideal part? There is no projection of it's bad traits onto someone else, just repression. My question regards what is the relationship between splitting and repression. Thank you in advance.
Splitting is a primitive defence mechanism well repression is a more advanced one. It follows the people may be splitting without repression, but some people who have advanced make sure a mixture of both. I hope that helps.
@@doncarveth It helps a lot. I was wondering where do all the negative emotions go, when an infant is enjoying an experience with the good object. Thank you for your reply.
Iakovos Sianoudis I think it is relevant to ask where do all the negative emotions go when experienced by primates, dogs or cats? I don’t think we attribute repression to animals and also not to infants.
@@doncarveth Indeed! Thank you.
How is the name of the artist spelled?
Segantini
Can you tell me about counselling a child? Is it bad to make them aware of their parents faults? Should they need to believe in their parents being all good to survive childhood
Fred, this is too complex a question to answer here.
The unconcious fantasy is a very interesting observation of melanie klein,often people in their interactions are kind of inhibited,although there is no really reason for it,or they try to appease someone who in internal reality is a persecutor
True
I believe that Freud's inability to see his mother as a bad object may not to too far off the mark. It may not relate to all sons and mothers, however. Mothers who were not overtly abusive or demeaning could be the exception. The unconscious need to see our mothers as someone special (especially when that mother is physically beautiful) is powerful.
As I look back on the relationship of my brother and mother, it seems that both were unable to see each other as bad. I remember walking into my brother's bedroom early mornings with my mother. I was about 4. My brother was just waking up and was "scratching" his penis. (Or so I thought.) This was nearly a morning ritual. Sometimes my mother would giggle. Then, one morning she said "stop". Later, of course I understood that he was masturbating. My brother always had the hots for my mother; it was very obvious. (Long, sad story.)
My brother never put two and two together. To this day, he hates me and refuses to speak with me. All my siblings scapegoated me, especially after I cut all communication from one in late life. The sister, specifically who bullied me, forever - the one having BPD.
I, on the other hand also idealized my mother - a carryover from early childhood, even though I was certainly aware of her many deficits from a very early age - 2.5 years old. These emotions almost defy logic. I now fully accept that she was mentally ill. I always loved her, and was always trying to get her to love me, and much later in life I attempted to change her political beliefs, but delusional people are incapable of change. She died at 107 while I was beside her, in her bed, holding her. None of my siblings were present.
No one wants to admit that their mother was crazy from the beginning. We all want to believe that our childhood was "normal." Why? Perhaps if our mother was crazy, in implies that we, too, must be crazy. I've never felt, or believed myself to be crazy, and I truly don't know why I could not accept the truth earlier in life. Once accepting mother's tragic life and how her life impacted all family members could be written in a Shakespearean story. All the pieces fit together and a tremendously obscure burden has been removed from my being.
Listening to Don the last month or two allowed me to rest my story. I never could have finished my self analysis without Don Carveth's wisdom, broad based theoretical understanding and generous sharing here on UA-cam.. Don, thank you, I am grateful beyond words.
Thank you, Bella
Would you say that freud theoy biologically driven and klein theory is socially driven.the subjective / objective division. We are made of both experiences, the priori and posteriori experiences.
Well, both see both nature and nurture. Both leave out existentialism, freedom, choice.
Catastrophe is adULTification.
Psyche is pronounced sigh-key. You stumbled over the explanation of why Freud felt hostility toward his mother, with the "golden phallus" imagery and the statement "not loving it for himself," which makes no sense. I felt like there was something important here and I wish you had made it clearer. Why would a woman have golden phallus imagery, and what exactly do all the pronouns you used refer to? Is the author saying Freud's mother didn't love him for the person he was but rather loved some idealized image she had of him?