My humble appreciation to you both for sharing this conversation with the world. Every minute causes me to reflect. One interesting observation is your focus on this writer ending his own book with the theme of perplexity. Rabi Maimonides ends his book on clarity. The last paragraph of his Guide is the psalm's promise that God draws near always to those who draw near to Him, i.e. the more we reach, the clearer we become.
Such a joy to listen to Micah Goodman's such clear expressive thinking as well as such clarifying content. He really makes Maimonides whom I always loved, come to life more for me.
Micah Goodman has a gift of speaking coherently and in such refreshing way on religious topics that make secular Jew like me listen intently while enjoying much the conversation. My take of the discussion was on: the need to maintain far from dogmatism equilibrium position (i.e. curiosity for more), the concept of god as nature, the role of Halacha, etc. It is captivating to hear a philosophical analysis on Jewish theology topics with rich list of examples and in such relax tone. I may read the book by Micah Goodman. As reflection also, it appears that Micah Goodman practice Maimonides' concept of far from dogmatism equilibrium that seems to get in conflict with some dogmatic people in Israel. It is impressive to see intellectual that keeps philosophical integrity as intellectual/ religious person/ Israeli while staying cautious.
I'm not Jewish but I find Micah's passion fascinating. Interesting discussion nonetheless. Evidently, Maimonides still as elusive or rather multifaceted and fertile for learners to dig up new thoughts from his volumes. Such a great figure indeed.
Brilliant and mentally and spiritually provocative. Also, rather unexpectedly re-brings us to the mystery of the beyond-definition "Personhood" of God, even in that "personhood" would fall under Maimonides' "negative theology" [you can't say "God IS a 'person'"... because our concept of "person" is so tiny and limited.. we can't fully fathom what a human person is, much less an Almighty Prime Being, being a "person", and yet the rest of that precept of Maimonides is that "you DEFINITELY CAN NOT say God is NOT a Person"]... ...But in this sense, i found this interview of Micah Goodman on Maimonides bringing me more strongly into my "intimate" relationship with that Personhood of God.... for example, I would say that a CHILD knows God more effectively than we do, as a child knows-without-knowing that the child KNOWS his/her mother without being able to give a logical philosophical theological or scientific explanation of what his/her mother is or what a mother is, AT ALL... but, nevertheless, the child KNOWS his/her mother, intensely and, in a sense, absolutely. Anyway, in my own tiny ignorant way I've been very blessed by Maimonides in this way, and listening to Micah Goodman speak on Maimonides here, and upon the thought that Maimonides provokes within Micah Goodman's own thought upon these matters and upon God, I find radically strengthening in my personal spiritual relationship to God ...and to my being Jewish also, for that matter. Having said that, if it is not by now very clear, i am VERY grateful for this Interview, for the Shalom Hartman Institute orchestrating it and having it so freely available online, and of course to Micah Goodman himself. My heartfelt thanks!
Very beautifully expressed! I like especially your emphasizing that ler Rambam, if you can't say God is a person neither can you say He is not a person. And I love Micah Goodman's point at the end that maybe we don't always have to be totally consistent. We can think of God as the philosopher Rambam does but also still talk to Him as per the Psalms.
@@miriamewaskio793 Thanks Miriam! Yes your bringing in the Psalms is perfect!!! Rambam fully embraced the Psalms and the entirety of the Tanakh, and the extremely personal relationship emoted in the Psalms by David and the other psalmists, but especially David, shows the Reality, of this very Personal dynamic of God, and of God with us. Thank you!
@@RoryWhite Again so well put. I've struggled internally as well as with some I deeply respect as truly religious and ethical but they don't think when we pray, we open our hearts to any personal Other and it feels to me like throwing out the Psalms our most beautiful Jewish treasures we gave to the world. I feel more with Heschel and Zalman on this than with Kaplan. I wrote about my struggling with this in my first entry on wordpress this January 27 entitled "Immanence and Transcendence "
@@miriamewaskio793 I just read your "Immanence and Transcendence", Miriam. What an amazing journey of yours that you manifest in, and rather allow and in such a writerly manner, to spring forth from the seams of, your thoughtful and emotional assault upon the two parallel realities of Immanence and Transcendence. You are, in my view, clearly embracing/wrestling with (like Jacob and the Angel) the Personhood of God and with which the entire Tanakh is infused. Whether Abraham or Sarah or David or Ezekiel, and in fact virtually, and maybe actually, omnipresent in the entire Tanakh, the Personhood of God is one of the key characteristics of what is communicated. If one pulled all of such out of Scripture, like Thomas Jefferson did in his adventurous Deist Bible, one ends up with a very different book than that which we call the Torah and entire Tanakh. To me, and I once was both an agnostic and even an atheist at points in my journey, that God is a Person, is explicit in Scripture and the relationships of all the very real persons. Also obvious is that we live in a, if one doesn't want to use the word "fallen", then "torn and bleeding", Universe/World/Planet where we don't have an easy communion all the time with God. I think that's an understatement and likewise manifest in our world situation. It's kinda like a child who has embraced the notion or reality of feeling (perhaps in their struggle to deal with pain and hurt in each person's post traumatic, and ongoing traumatic, stress disorder) that their Mother does NOT even exist. It's understandable in light of hurt, pain, and wounds, that such a huge rift exists, sort of like the equal but opposite of your seeing/feeling God in the constant undulation and orchestration of waves, these other waves of unbelief and struggle with both God and fellow human beings. So we live with a Rift and with a Reality in terms of God and we humans. Personally, I believe God is very capable of initiating personal contact with us, and does so in many ways, sometimes very explicitly, sometimes abstractly. All these beings of the Bible had interactions with God in a personal way, and most all of them manifest periods of extreme loss of faith and unbelief, in the cries of their hearts, or as manifest in their actions, e.g., David's actions with Bathsheba and Uriah objectively described in Samuel, and subjectively emoted in his agonies and ecstasies of his Psalms. To me, and i'm very very far from being an expert, or even able to use the words "studied in", Maimonides, but what my spasmodic, but often fruitful, attempts and reattempts to move through his Guide for the Perplexed, this bizarre at first, (and i do think Philosophers take delight in expressing things in extreme ways), Negative Theology, really helped me in my personal relationship with God. How God could be way way beyond what we can logically mentally conceive of as a Person, and yet also be the most personal intimate feeling loving Person imaginable, has helped me be like a tiny child who does not doubt the Absolute Personhood of its Mother. So, bottomline, Rambam's "One cannot say that God is a Person" and correspondingly, excuse my redundance, "One cannot say that God is NOT a Person" has radically helped me in my very very very personal relationship with God. Thanks for your great piece of writing, "Immanence and Transcendence". It is both intellectual, and assaults the limits of logic while not being illogical, and is ultimately so very very personal. My personal thanks to you.
@@RoryWhite Toda raba for your resonating so beautifully with my searching jwrestling journey and joining it to that ofTanakh figures! And your sharing beautifully of yours and your thoughts. You're right it's not just the psalms but the whole Tanakh is permiated with the same feel. With Maimonides anything we say of God is so utterly inadequate, imbacilic, but if one uses any metaphor why not something akin to the most beautiful life giving creative love of parents or of spouses that we experience knowing still how totally inadequate it is. That's why I love your pointing out that per Maimonides, though we can't say He is a person, neither can we say he is not a person as some posit these days and to me this puts him as less than us! Better to say nothing which maybe I should do too.
Amazing. Simply amazing how a man's ego, and need to rebel against authority can lead him to read a Holy Book meant to bring Jews closer to their G*d, and see just the opposite, G8d forgive him and lead him to repent!
My humble appreciation to you both for sharing this conversation with the world. Every minute causes me to reflect. One interesting observation is your focus on this writer ending his own book with the theme of perplexity. Rabi Maimonides ends his book on clarity. The last paragraph of his Guide is the psalm's promise that God draws near always to those who draw near to Him, i.e. the more we reach, the clearer we become.
Such a joy to listen to Micah Goodman's such clear expressive thinking as well as such clarifying content. He really makes Maimonides whom I always loved, come to life more for me.
Micah Goodman has a gift of speaking coherently and in such refreshing way on religious topics that make secular Jew like me listen intently while enjoying much the conversation. My take of the discussion was on: the need to maintain far from dogmatism equilibrium position (i.e. curiosity for more), the concept of god as nature, the role of Halacha, etc. It is captivating to hear a philosophical analysis on Jewish theology topics with rich list of examples and in such relax tone. I may read the book by Micah Goodman. As reflection also, it appears that Micah Goodman practice Maimonides' concept of far from dogmatism equilibrium that seems to get in conflict with some dogmatic people in Israel. It is impressive to see intellectual that keeps philosophical integrity as intellectual/ religious person/ Israeli while staying cautious.
I'm not Jewish but I find Micah's passion fascinating.
Interesting discussion nonetheless.
Evidently, Maimonides still as elusive or rather multifaceted and fertile for learners to dig up new thoughts from his volumes.
Such a great figure indeed.
Brilliant and mentally and spiritually provocative. Also, rather unexpectedly re-brings us to the mystery of the beyond-definition "Personhood" of God, even in that "personhood" would fall under Maimonides' "negative theology" [you can't say "God IS a 'person'"... because our concept of "person" is so tiny and limited.. we can't fully fathom what a human person is, much less an Almighty Prime Being, being a "person", and yet the rest of that precept of Maimonides is that "you DEFINITELY CAN NOT say God is NOT a Person"]...
...But in this sense, i found this interview of Micah Goodman on Maimonides bringing me more strongly into my "intimate" relationship with that Personhood of God.... for example, I would say that a CHILD knows God more effectively than we do, as a child knows-without-knowing that the child KNOWS his/her mother without being able to give a logical philosophical theological or scientific explanation of what his/her mother is or what a mother is, AT ALL... but, nevertheless, the child KNOWS his/her mother, intensely and, in a sense, absolutely.
Anyway, in my own tiny ignorant way I've been very blessed by Maimonides in this way, and listening to Micah Goodman speak on Maimonides here, and upon the thought that Maimonides provokes within Micah Goodman's own thought upon these matters and upon God, I find radically strengthening in my personal spiritual relationship to God ...and to my being Jewish also, for that matter.
Having said that, if it is not by now very clear, i am VERY grateful for this Interview, for the Shalom Hartman Institute orchestrating it and having it so freely available online, and of course to Micah Goodman himself. My heartfelt thanks!
Very beautifully expressed! I like especially your emphasizing that ler Rambam, if you can't say God is a person neither can you say He is not a person. And I love Micah Goodman's point at the end that maybe we don't always have to be totally consistent. We can think of God as the philosopher Rambam does but also still talk to Him as per the Psalms.
@@miriamewaskio793 Thanks Miriam! Yes your bringing in the Psalms is perfect!!! Rambam fully embraced the Psalms and the entirety of the Tanakh, and the extremely personal relationship emoted in the Psalms by David and the other psalmists, but especially David, shows the Reality, of this very Personal dynamic of God, and of God with us. Thank you!
@@RoryWhite Again so well put. I've struggled internally as well as with some I deeply respect as truly religious and ethical but they don't think when we pray, we open our hearts to any personal Other and it feels to me like throwing out the Psalms our most beautiful Jewish treasures we gave to the world. I feel more with Heschel and Zalman on this than with Kaplan. I wrote about my struggling with this in my first entry on wordpress this January 27 entitled "Immanence and Transcendence "
@@miriamewaskio793 I just read your "Immanence and Transcendence", Miriam. What an amazing journey of yours that you manifest in, and rather allow and in such a writerly manner, to spring forth from the seams of, your thoughtful and emotional assault upon the two parallel realities of Immanence and Transcendence. You are, in my view, clearly embracing/wrestling with (like Jacob and the Angel) the Personhood of God and with which the entire Tanakh is infused. Whether Abraham or Sarah or David or Ezekiel, and in fact virtually, and maybe actually, omnipresent in the entire Tanakh, the Personhood of God is one of the key characteristics of what is communicated. If one pulled all of such out of Scripture, like Thomas Jefferson did in his adventurous Deist Bible, one ends up with a very different book than that which we call the Torah and entire Tanakh. To me, and I once was both an agnostic and even an atheist at points in my journey, that God is a Person, is explicit in Scripture and the relationships of all the very real persons. Also obvious is that we live in a, if one doesn't want to use the word "fallen", then "torn and bleeding", Universe/World/Planet where we don't have an easy communion all the time with God. I think that's an understatement and likewise manifest in our world situation. It's kinda like a child who has embraced the notion or reality of feeling (perhaps in their struggle to deal with pain and hurt in each person's post traumatic, and ongoing traumatic, stress disorder) that their Mother does NOT even exist. It's understandable in light of hurt, pain, and wounds, that such a huge rift exists, sort of like the equal but opposite of your seeing/feeling God in the constant undulation and orchestration of waves, these other waves of unbelief and struggle with both God and fellow human beings. So we live with a Rift and with a Reality in terms of God and we humans. Personally, I believe God is very capable of initiating personal contact with us, and does so in many ways, sometimes very explicitly, sometimes abstractly. All these beings of the Bible had interactions with God in a personal way, and most all of them manifest periods of extreme loss of faith and unbelief, in the cries of their hearts, or as manifest in their actions, e.g., David's actions with Bathsheba and Uriah objectively described in Samuel, and subjectively emoted in his agonies and ecstasies of his Psalms. To me, and i'm very very far from being an expert, or even able to use the words "studied in", Maimonides, but what my spasmodic, but often fruitful, attempts and reattempts to move through his Guide for the Perplexed, this bizarre at first, (and i do think Philosophers take delight in expressing things in extreme ways), Negative Theology, really helped me in my personal relationship with God. How God could be way way beyond what we can logically mentally conceive of as a Person, and yet also be the most personal intimate feeling loving Person imaginable, has helped me be like a tiny child who does not doubt the Absolute Personhood of its Mother. So, bottomline, Rambam's "One cannot say that God is a Person" and correspondingly, excuse my redundance, "One cannot say that God is NOT a Person" has radically helped me in my very very very personal relationship with God. Thanks for your great piece of writing, "Immanence and Transcendence". It is both intellectual, and assaults the limits of logic while not being illogical, and is ultimately so very very personal. My personal thanks to you.
@@RoryWhite Toda raba for your resonating so beautifully with my searching jwrestling journey and joining it to that ofTanakh figures! And your sharing beautifully of yours and your thoughts. You're right it's not just the psalms but the whole Tanakh is permiated with the same feel. With Maimonides anything we say of God is so utterly inadequate, imbacilic, but if one uses any metaphor why not something akin to the most beautiful life giving creative love of parents or of spouses that we experience knowing still how totally inadequate it is. That's why I love your pointing out that per Maimonides, though we can't say He is a person, neither can we say he is not a person as some posit these days and to me this puts him as less than us! Better to say nothing which maybe I should do too.
Amazing. Simply amazing how a man's ego, and need to rebel against authority can lead him to read a Holy Book meant to bring Jews closer to their G*d, and see just the opposite, G8d forgive him and lead him to repent!
Volume too low
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