Julian: "No contractor has said 'let me do the bathroom too, no charge." Also Julian: "We're underwater on this and they said they don't want to pay for varnish but we're gonna varnish it anyway."
There is a difference though. This is a product he worked on and finalized for his client. His name is on it. If anything, these are his portfolio as a conservator. You wouldn't want to publicize something that isn't representative of your standards. It hurts right now but pays of in the long run I would say.
Yes, it's some time and money you won't get paid for, but it could be much more expensive if - without proper context - it was percieved as representative of poor workmanship. It's always a balance.
to be fair though they're probably not under under for this thanks to the UA-cam revenue. I'm not sure exactly what the conversion is but 900k+ views across this entire 4 part series on top of patreon revenue probably more than covers the costs of a free varnish job on 1 painting.
@@1959Berre "the place of origin or earliest known history of something" Such as who created it, meaning the artist. "a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality" Also meaning the artist. I think you may have been thinking of another word, or just really wanted to correct someone. Even though they are correct.
Personally, I don't see what the value of a painting is because of who painted it. To me it would be the quality of the work. Actual, I do understand, why the artist makes a painting more valuable but I'm never going to own a painting done by a famous artist. Therefore it's just my appreciation of a painting that is it's value.
In Europe, there's a fair chance that nobody would want it at an auction sale. An American copy of this quality only has a vague aesthetic value, thus would not be worth more than a couple hundreds.
I remember during a live video, Julian talking about giving a lady a huge discount. Then later when he was going to bid on a large job for a church, he found out how influential the lady he gave the discount to was. Because of her, the job was his. They didn't even consider other people to do the conservation. He ended up making so much more than what he lost giving the lady a discount.
I would think the cost of renovating a bathroom would be more than a coat of varnish. That being said, I don't know how expensive that varnish is, and what the labor costs for it are (if any were paid). But, maybe Julian felt it was a loss that would pay itself back in other ways, such as maintaining a reputation of excellence and quality without exception.
@@iRunavala the amount of varnish used on a single painting typically wouldn't be too expensive, especially compared to the reputation cost of sending out a painting without a protective layer.
@@InnocentGuillotine Yea, and the client is being quite stupid with not even wanting to pay for varnishing tbh. It's like they must already have to pay at least 80% of the original conservation cost with what's been done so far, then maybe reduce the retouching to 5% instead of the 20% it would take, but then skimps up on the maybe 1% of the entire budget it would take to varnish it. Just decides to leave it unfinished at the last stretch because they weren't expecting it not making money for them. Sure, it's a loss, but it's still better to not throw it in the garbage bin, just pay for the last bit and accept the loss. Hang it in your house or something even if it's monetarily worthless, better that trashing the piece. And maybe with some luck, there can still be some return or make it even, but you ain't gonna be having much chance of that if you leave it unfinished.
@@Voartist 😂 absolutely! Those timelapse shots! Gosh comparing Julian's pace to kit's! Wow! But It'll come with time tho, rn it's ok for her to focus on precision.
@@anagabrieltrevino5439 I like her. I think she'll do well. My advice to her, and I'm not at art expert by any means, is to intern with more than one restoration person. I think that concept applies to many professions. It's like getting a second opinion from another doctor.
I’m in print production and know and hate that feeling. When you don’t have the time to make what you produce up to your own high standards it is so demoralizing. Especially if it’s a project you’ve really gotten into it can be pretty near heartbreaking and Kit handled it like a champ.
13:58: "Everything that I do... everything that WE do..." I love how clear it is that Julian has fully internalized that Kit is part of the team. It's clear he wants the best for her.
Having Kit around to ask questions and learn is SUCH AN INCREDIBLE ADDITION to these videos. I can’t emphasize how much depth this has added to what was already a fantastic channel. Thank you for taking the time to shoot edit and post these videos of your work. I can’t wait for the next one.
@@yessanknow302 -I come here to watch art restored...I dont care for this new girl he has...I know thats gonna trigger the hoi-polloi in here..but these episodes are duller than watching paint dry. Get it? I slay me.
Kit seems like the wind was so knocked out of her sails by all this. Julien did such a great job of guiding through what is a low point of the industry. In their field, you don't win or lose. You win or you learn.
I love Kit, I love Kit's hair, I love Kit's attitude, I love watching her learn alongside you. You both did a great job on this painting and I'm sorry it lost so much value in the client's eyes.
It was gut wrenching watching them deflate. I get that it’s a business and that ultimately, the client calls the shots. But it just feels so wrong to pull the plug on funding the project when they could’ve read the dang sticker on the back pointing to the actual artist, and googled where the painting actually came from! It was like watching them be punished for something they didn’t do.
@@innocentnemesis3519 really late to the conversation lol sorry but in one of the earlier videos they mentioned the label was on the inside of the stretcher, flush against the back of the canvas, and they we're probably the first people to see it since the painting was stretched. I dont think the client in this case had any way of knowing/seeing that before they took the canvas off
Kit getting her own apron was so cute, and I’m so glad she got it finally! I hope we get to see more of her regularly in videos, she’s has such a refreshing, spirited energy and seeing the two of you interact and collaborate is so delightful! Despite the disappointing experience you two did such a wonderful job and showed your love of the work and the craft
What really impressed me is that even though there's a third person filming, you still feel like it's just Julian, Kit and you as the viewer. Very interesting. As if you were there yourself and were looking over their shoulder. very intimate, immersive, natural and pleasant.
Sometimes being referenceable by clients is more important than making a small profit on a project. Adding the varnish was the right move for this piece, and may bring in additional work in the future. Good Job!
The difference in the before and after is absolutely breath taking. I agree, the varnish was the right move for this one. Awesome work for the both of them 🙂
Don't forget that the extra revenue from the UA-cam/Patreon might cover some of it as well (although they would get that either way so it's still a loss). Glad it wasn't scrapped at least.
I was just thinking the same thing. Especially if your client is a prominent figure in the art world the last thing you want to do is mislead them on the value of the painting. Sure, you’ll make some extra cash now but you’ll be out of business sooner rather than later.
@@AsmodeusMictian I think the major difference was made before the discovery (lining, cleaning, flattening the canvas, etc.), which was still on path for the full deal. But yes, the retouching is just good enough to not meet the eye at a distance, making the end result a solid piece.
I love how Kit is trying to get Julian to tell her what’s really going on 😅 like she instantly knew there was an issue after the provenance conversation
I LOVE KIT. And I'm really glad you shared this painting's story because not every painting has a happy ending with clients. What a difficult position you guys were in as conservators. Keep up the great work- CONGRATS ON YOUR APRON KIT!!!
I'm glad that you hired Kit. She gives a different perspective to the restoration work that I can relate to. BTW Kit, I love the color you added to your hair.
i am also grateful for Kit, not just because it's really good to see someone learning new things and advancing in their craft and career, but also because Kit asks all kinds of questions in the moment that we, the viewers, might have and that Julian might not think to talk about since he's been doing this for so long.
I like her presence. She looks interested, engaged and also interesting and with a great sense of humour. The Bob Ross comment and the "I don't like the colour" had me in stitches. She is capable and we now have proxy in the process to ask what we also wanted to ask. I adore her hair btw [though it is rude to comment on someone's appearance but what awesome hair!]
I wonder how much value is added to the painting just because Baumgartner Restoration worked on it and produced a four part video series. Not to mention the Kit factor. You can't put a price on adorable.
Watching this, I've concluded that someone that wants to be an art conservator should spend a couple years as a theatrical scene painter somewhere in their education. It gives you a _really_ good idea about what is good enough at 30 feet on a moving bicycle, and how to decide where you are going to spend your time on a wall-size painting, or whether you dash it out and spend your time on a small prop.
This applies in a lot of areas. Is it really worth it to spend double the time and effort to make a 10% improvement on something? Usually not, especially if it's to be seen for only a short time or limited audience. I say this coming from the corporate marketing / graphic design world.
I'm so sorry you had to go with "good enough"; however, as you proved, a Baumgartner "good enough" is better than some people's "perfect". Great content, as usual, and, again, welcome, Kit.
An original Murillo is worth millions - a copy of a Murillo is worth as much as a copy of anything else. Have no illusions: fine art is not owned for it's beauty, but as it's value as an investment medium, like mansions or wine. 99% of art pieces are simply aesthetic - which is investors do not buy them because they can neither store nor generate wealth, merely beauty and humanity. F that, right?
Not gonna lie, Julian. I'm actually kind of glad it was NOT a Murillo - because that meant it most definitely was NOT one of the 18 stolen Murillos that have not yet been recovered by Spanish authorities, meaning you are free of the ethical problem of "do I report my client to the authorities or not?". Not even writting that in jest. The arrival to a conservator's studio of a painting that may have been stolen is a huge can of worms, and I'm actually glad you dodged that bullet and we all can just relax and apretiate the conservation work.
Oh wow I never considered that... It makes me wonder if there's some kind of archive of all the stolen paintings from around the world where museums, private collectors, and conservation personnel can screen for stolen goods. Who would you even report that to? Just your local police? I imagine if a stolen painting has left its country of origin you would eventually have to get some kind of international organization involved. A touchy subject to be sure!
That would be a no brainer for any serious conservator like Julian. Of course he would have to report it or risk his reputation. The current situation is much more tricky as you want to conserve as much value for the client but can’t be involved in covering-up the true identity of the painting...
@@Creature_of_Knight Italy has a specific branch in one of our police forces that has an archive of every piece of art that has been stolen from our country and they cooperate with other countries to bring the pieces back, so there must be an equivalent in other countries
For the very same reason, major galleries keep provenance records on every piece in their collection. Some make this documentation freely available online. No serious, legitimate buyer is going to acquire a piece with an unknown history. It may be stolen or a forgery.
@@Creature_of_Knight It highly depends on countries, and the specific structure it happens in. How the authorities were made aware of it as well (whistleblower, customs, warrant discovery after investigation, etc). Egypt for instance has a dedicated police force for cultural items trafficking. France as well. A judiciary group called TREIMA (an acronym that basically means "Thesaurus of imagery and electronic research in artistic matters") will authenticate a piece. If it happens to be a stolen piece, responsibility will be determined (was the owner unwitting? Or knowingly buying stollen goods? etc). After that, proper judicial procedures begin. Once they are over, the piece is to be returned to the owner. If it's a matter of international relations (say, a stollen mummy, or a crown jewel that belongs to a country) Ministry of culture takes over, jointly with external affairs, to give back the pieceto an embassy which will manage from that point. Or, if the owner isn't a state (individuals, institutions, estates,...) the tribunal will be contacting the rightful owner for retrieval. The biggest chunk of work to detect stolen art, however, is a database shared by Interpol, that is often retransmitted to people like Julian (at leats in France), appraisers, art insurance companies etc. TREIMA, or equivallent groups, employs a ton of historians and various kinds of experts to expand that database from older crime (take for instance post-WWII losses of jewish-owned paintings, or pillaged museums in occupied countries) and police personel to update modern crime (break-ins and heists).
Ooh. Yes, the “good enough” mantra is like listening to nails on a chalkboard. I understand Julian and Kit’s pain at being forced to be just okay when they can be dazzling.
As a sound editor I often face the same kind of challenge when clients say, "Just clean up the sound a bit, we don't have the budget to do a full edit." How far do I go when the sound is obviously flawed?
I get the same when restoring antique guitars: I know can make it a fully playable instrument, but the client just want to conserve it so it doesn't deteriorate any further.
It is actually very simple. As owner of the business you sould know how much an hour of your work costs (based on your expenses, costs and desired income). With that you simply take the amount of money presented by client and then divide it by cost of your work for hour. Then you get how many hours of your work your client bought and just simply work for that amount of time over given project.
@@crazyfrytka That can end up with you having a not finished work if you ends up working more hours on some parts. Like, if you had to do some painting at the end but then you're out of time, do you turn a low quality work that may hurt you in the future? Sometimes when you work in private practice you have to eat a bit of a loss to protect some notion of quality work so you don't harm yourself, and hope it may propel to better budgeted works in the future.
And thus ends the Mentorship Arc. Love the work they put into adapting the dialogue from the manga. Julian and Kit’s heartbreak over the painting’s value was a pretty compelling twist that’s adding so much depth. Such awesome character development, great arc. Can’t wait to see what they do with the Phantom Canvas Arc.
A+++ comment. (It really is a fantastic series for those reasons, though, all joking aside. I feel bad for enjoying it so much when it was so unfortunate for them!!)
I liked this 4 part series. While explaining things to Kit, it gave me a better understanding of the decisions that go into the restoration. I know that it is sort of taboo to discuss costs of clients works, but the discussion of 'art as an investment' did come up. I'd like to see a discussion that goes into numbers (generally). Maybe talk about the range in value of paintings that come to you. A range of cost to restore and what the increase in value could be realized. Keep up the great content. It's always a pleasure to see you have posted something new.
I love Kit, she is such a nice breath of fresh air in the studio. I love how with her there and learning that the time is taken to go go more in-depth on the process. I would enjoy having more multi part episodes like this one to see Kit grow as a conservator.
The frustration in Kit's reaction is palpable, but I think she's getting a rare opportunity to learn a very important aspect of the business. This is an extreme case which forces you to make difficult decisions, and those decisions can make the difference between making some profit (even if it's small) and losing money because of investing too much time on the piece. Having the guidance of a seasoned professional for this type of cases at this point is invaluable.
Hey guys, You are blowing my mind with these master/apprentice videos! In my opinion - this is probably the best and most engaging video ever produced on this channel! And that is saying something, because I looove your videos and consider them to be superb quality content that I have followed fervently for the past several years. I have learned so much, got to see such beautiful art getting unearthed from so many layers of grime, and have gotten the best ASMR goosebumps watching Julian and his meticulous little instruments squirreling away at a patch of painting! :D Kit is awesome! Slowly getting more relaxed with the camera and the situation, and starting to express more of her opinions, which is great! :) We get to see an authentic twist with the provenance, opening up a can of worms that you proceed to deal with, on camera, sharing a back-and-forth of opinions and gauging art-vs-business arguments. That is some prime stuff - I was glued to the screen with expectation! :) I hope that this duo continues with futher videos, so we can all be a part of your journey together as master and apprentice, solving conservation crimes and busting bad retouchers together!!! :D Cannot wait for more of this! :) All the best!
i have been watching julien for the past 3-4 years and i just noticed how much the production value has increased into julian making these videos for us. feels really nice watching this channel grow.
I was wondering why this painting needed such a long series, but after seeing all of it, I think this whole process needed the 4 parts to do it justice. I appreciate the thought process and narrative surrounding mentorship and the work on this painting, and I’m glad that you were able to make a satisfying conclusion to the situation for everyone. Also congrats to Kit!
"We're going to varnish it." "The client said they don't want to varnish it." "Well, the client said they didn't want to pay for varnish." Good guy Julian and with foresight about making a potential future client as happy as he can given the situation.
Julian, I commend your use of language and methods in teaching Kit your trade, no ego stroking (except in jest), or put downs because she has a question, which I super appreciate and very much notice. Good on you, and good job Kit. Also nice hair, both of you lol
Kit’s awesome, you’re lucky to find somebody so young who’s serious enough to do this work properly, but still cheeky enough to make you roll your eyes - it’s good for your eyeballs, she should do it more. 😁
yay more Kit!! also - Julian, I would love to hear more about the whole business of art. I have a weird ambivalence in knowing how much commodified the art world has been (as a way to launder money, and invest, and avoid paying taxes on wealth) while also knowing that there are lots of genuine art lovers out there laboring in the museums and galleries of the world
You did amazing work on this one. A ton of repair to the stitched area, massive painting, all ready for retouching. To be told to fumble your brushes... so sorry. At the very least, you know that the buyer is going to hang the painting. Hopefully it will be appreciated, and not viewed through a shallow lens as money lost.
I definitely understand the disappointment in not finishing this conversation to your standards. If it makes you feel any better, as someone with formal education in painting, I'd much rather have one of my paintings at least partially retouched than not retouched at all. This painting left your studio in a much better state than it came in. Also congrats to Kit on getting her official apron!
The client got a bargain. I'm sure he knew that Julian would make it look worthy of display even if he didn't pay for all the work. What's in a name? We often attach value to the name of the artist or craftsman or manufacturer, and we admire the beauty of a product because of it. Then, if we discover that it's just a copy or a fake, suddenly it's less beautiful, yet the item is unchanged. I have mixed feelings about this.
There is the impermanence of human existence. We can't live forever into the future, but we can hold hands with the past - and that extends our own life into that past. If I hold my grandfather's gardening tools, I am holding hands with him in 1932 when he used those tools. If someone told me that the tool was replaced ten years ago with a replica, the tool loses that magic.
It's the association bias (or I think that's what it is called) we link objects with actual unrelated things in either a positive or negative way. It's the reason why you wouldn't want to live in a house where somebody died or like a painting just because you like the artist.
I wholeheartedly agree. Let's say you have two identical paintings, the only difference is that one was painted by a famous artist, the other a copy. Does this make the copy any less beautiful just because it's not done by the artist? Sure, monetary value may be different.
@@amcconnell6730 I get what you're saying but that's somewhat of an imperfect analogy isn't it. A painting isn't a piece of equipment to dig dirt with but arguably has an intrinsic value which is its beauty and the craftsmanship and artistry that went into it. Imho it doesn't only get its value from who happened to touch it. Rather the opposite - certain artists are considered important _because_ of the quality of the art they created. If an artwork was so beautiful and masterfully executed that people thought it was an original, you should think it has an intrinsic value and if anything, it proves that the artist that made it may be deserving of more recognition than they got. Attaching the value of a piece entirely to a name, even knowing how elitist, exclusive and arbitrary the art industry has always been, is really a rather weird attitude towards art that I wish wasn't so common. I find it hard to believe that a creation completely loses its value just because of who made it.
I think Julian explained it clearly at the beginning: problem is less the name than the body of work : the more paintings you sell, the higher the price of your paintings. It’s not the case of the artist here. Also the impact of your work is to consider. Obviously if you made a copy you didn’t entirely create this, whatever the level of skill necessary to reproduce it.
While I'm sorry that the project was cut short in this case, I have to say I really enjoyed the new format for the video. Having Kit alongside you, explaining things to her and focusing on dialogue for learning and understanding the process and techniques is interesting, and it has a much more natural feel to it. Thank you for your time and effort in both your work and your editing!
Oh, I was so worried that this wouldn't get finished at all. A middle approach is definitely lemonade Edit: it was so professional to varnish regardless of going into the red on this one
@@Edino_Chattino Is it even worth getting in the good side of such a client? That last varnishing would likely cost at worst 1% of the entire project, and the client must need to pay like at least 80% for the job that has already been done. To skimp on the last 1% and leave the painting without the main protective layer is just... idiotic at best. The client should have just taken the loss with some grace, he can at least hang it in his home or something, surely is better than trashing it after having to pay so much. So yea, i sure wouldn't want a client like this...
Having Kit in this narrative really makes this channel even more captivating. I'm learning so much because I wasnt expecting to witness the drama about the artist reveal.
@@davidlylejones True. Thats why I dislike the kind of in-video ads he does, they always feel so forced. And sometimes when they don't feel forced or when I forget that he does those and I get invested into what he is telling, I am so disappointed that it was just for the ad.
@@davidlylejones I didn't have the feeling you described while watching. The conversation about value and how to deal with clients willingness of investment keeps going after the advertisement. Different central point, but dependent on the question how people value art. And might value different. Even if it is contrived, it might also come from rehearsal, a second shot because the first one was bad (some other problem with the mic)? Or they had this talk off camera? And we still have the project which has been cut short. Just that for an ad? Done less sophisticated retouching, remove and redo it for the revenue? I doubt that. My feeling is, Julian chooses the advertiser that fits the narrative best. Not the other way around.
@@Paranaith I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I always hate when UA-camrs try to weave their sponsorship ads into the overall narrative of the video. Like, you’re not being clever. I know I’m being advertised to. I don’t think I’ve ever been tricked by a UA-camr’s sponsorship segue. I can always see it coming, especially if it’s a sponsor I’ve seen a thousand times before. Just put in a regular commercial break. Just pause the video and say “hey, time for an ad break.” I don’t care how elaborate or creative your skit is, I’m still skipping it every single time and blacklisting whatever sponsor you’re advertising, because I hate being advertised to. So save yourself some time and energy. I’ve got nothing against UA-camrs taking sponsorships. By all means, get that money. Just don’t insult my intelligence. I can see your “clever segues” from a mile away.
That's the thing about how I feel about art. In the digital space, copying art is a button click away and opening a program to make slight alterations. Previously was the process of photocopying. Many beginning investors of the time were taken in by a photocopy that was "treated" to look authentic (Think of the Whistlers Mother poster from the movie Bean) a person with enough time could overlay a poster or photocopy onto a canvas and work it enough to feel like a canvas and apply a thick varnish. However the person that did this, while it is a copy of another work, had to have actual skill to recreate it.. I am sure on very close comparison with the original, differing brush strokes would become apparent, but it still took a skilled hand to make. You will never own the original, so it comes down to "Did you buy this because you love the painting and the subject of it, or did you buy this because of the artists name and value?" From what is said in the video, it is public knowledge that the original is in a museum, so what did this person believe they bought in the first place?
They may not have known about the original before buying it. And it does bring up the point that the painter obviously made a living painting copies which if sold as such aren't a problem. But if the painting is bought and sold as an original then things get difficult and disappointing.
Sometimes multiple "copies" of the same or similar painting are made by the school, in which the original artist might still be involved in, for instance, putting the sketch on canvas. Some paintings are studies for others (although those are usually smaller). Trying out compositions, getting facial expressions right, ... Putting a large masterpiece straight on canvas without any practice pieces before is rare indeed.
@@BrianAndrews73 Did you not listen to Julian? He's said previous and in this episode repeatedly as well that they knew that the original was in the museum before purchasing it.
I definitely LOVE the way you edited the before and after shots at the end. That is the most satisfying part of the video for me. Often you do them quickly and I have to pause the video to get any detail and this time I could enjoy them in real time. Great job!
This situation is why the drama and politics around art has me keeping my distance. Everyone saw this painting you are restoring and thought it was beautiful and wonderful when it was thought to be by a preferred artist but then its discovered it was painted by a much lesser known artist. From that point you can tell the wind completely drained from everyone's sails. Budget was cut and it turned into a rush job. I can understand people wanting sound investments but as an artist its disheartening knowing no matter what I paint or draw it will never be desirable because of who I am, nobody
There's certainly significant skill and talent in being able to reproduce this painting, and that is not worthless - one would assume that Mr. Strecher made something of a living at it - but the true art is in the concept, not the execution. It's certainly skillful to play a Rachmaninoff or Hendrix composition, but we generally still recognize the composer over the instrumentalist. Murillo was also nobody until he created something new. Strecher remained "nobody" because he didn't create anything new. He was just a talented technician.
I agree, it's interesting because he's restored paintings from completely unknown individuals with no known value and those owners are perfectly OK with that because the painting is special to them.
@@wbfaulk The thing is though it was always known to be a copy. The question is why is a contemporary copy worse less than a period copy? Because the art world says so lol
What a tough place for the owner to be - when the restoration budget would be greater than the value of the painting. This is why loving the art itself is paramount for me.
It might not have much monetary value, but its creator poured their heart and soul into it. And it is a beautiful painting, and diligently restored. So for me it is a beautiful work of art. It has touched my heart.
Been and antique dealer and art collector for 35 Years. When it comes to antiques I usually absolutely know what I'm buying. When it comes to art? I do as much due dillegence as I can, I always buy something I like, I dont think about resale but If i feel its too much I walk away. I have bought some very nice pieces that have apprecitaed but not my goal. I surround myself with things I love,
Faced with this sort of a situation, the admiration I have had for Julian has increased greatly. His bringing together logic and art is amazing. For me, as I look at this painting, I marvel at what I see. I see more than just a mechanically produced work of art. I see a connection between the artist, his talent and the subject matter he is painting. I could never place a monetary value on that. I understand why the history surrounding the painting makes it of lesser importance. But, again, I see a painting created by an artist that was able to show something deeper than paint, canvas, and shape.
The artist may not have been famous but this painting should be. Yes it's a copy but just from the look of the canvas on the back it is unique. I have been endeavoring to use colored and custom canvas to bring the back of the canvas into the painting. That skill being unknown? Tragic. His art was amazingly well done.
I've just completed this four-part series and I could feel Kit's sense of deflation through the screen! I was also genuinely surprised at the owner's decision to leave the painting unvarnished, especially given how much work had already gone into the restoration. You would think that they would want to protect what they'd already paid for or at the very least show some respect and appreciation for the level of care, time and effort expended by these two meticulous professionals. I certainly hope that the owner watched this entire series, saw the work required, and felt more than a bit embarrassed for cheaping out on the last step. New sub!
I’d love to see more of Kit’s journey and more of this mentorship! It’s a whole new dimension to these videos. The apron at the end was so sweet. What a special series this was.
Sort of takes the soul out of art. And ultimately it’s only worth what it’s worth when it gets sold to a buyer. Surely you can’t just artificially increase the value of your shares until the piece actually gets sold
@@Francoberry only if you decide to look at it in that way. Look at it this way, more paintings than ever before have resources allocated to their preservation.
That's a really, really important life lesson you learn as you get older. Focus on the task at hand. Yes, there are problems to deal with the in the near future but if you don't concentrate on the present you'll create new problems.
That was a heartbreaking decision made by the client, but you guys still saved this painting. Hopefully it will end up in someone's home, able to be enjoyed.
Once upon a time, I was restoring an old air-cooled Porsche 911, and I discovered to my chagrin that it was actually just a hopped-up Volkswagen Beetle. Jeremy Clarkson was here, in spirit. ;-) !!
I feel sorry for people who collect art this way. Even if it IS the monetary value of art is what actually SAVES many pieces, even pieces like this. The client knew this was a copy, they took the gamble on what sort of copy it was. That is on them. This piece still has tremendous aesthetic and artistic value and was executed by a person of high skill. Perhaps that person's work will be recognized and accrue more (monetary) value in years to come. But when you buy a piece of art like this - you have to love it. not just for the $$$ attached - or you will be disappointed by every cent lost on your pie- in- the- sky aspirations. That sounds like a miserable way to experience anything much less "art", therefore it's short sighted to treat such works as merely commodities.
Yeah, but would you rather have a beautiful painting worth $500 or a beautiful painting worth 2.5 million? The client isn't wrong to be disappointed even if their hopes were artificially inflated to begin with.
@@nadismolina exactly, take "Who's afraid of red blue and yellow". It's worth a lot, although it doesn't speak to me on a personal level, whereas if you take a recreation of one of Van Gough's works from 50 years ago, worth maybe $200, I'd hang that up in a heartbeat
To the question in the first video, it was asked what reasons we watch these videos. I have 3 reasons!! His voice is calming & ASMR is how I’d describe how I feel. He doesn’t make conservation look or sound boring but informative and exciting. It’s also refreshing to see, hear and appreciate this behind the scenes world that most people have no idea about. I’ve been following for years now and the journey has been so rewarding and inspiring in my own life that what I myself have been through in my life has helped me find grounding, therapeutic and spiritual. In the end, I just love watching this instead of watching something that has no substance or meaning and isn’t what’s popular or flashy, loud! It’s just right!! 😉👍🏼🙏🏽🥰 Thank you
Excellent series! This kind of content reminds me of special documentaries on PBS many years ago, they were known for unique content and their quality was exceptional, except in my opinion you have surpassed them in many ways and your channel should win some kind of award for production and quality! I'm really amazed by the effort you put into everything you do and take no short cuts. My grandfather used to say you only leave behind your reputation!!
love julian’s approach of teaching, that any of kit’s misunderstanding is a failure to teach, not a failure to learn. a very positive learning environment. i love it.
I love the discussion about where to draw the line within the imposed limitations. These kinds of issues arise in many endeavors and they are uncomfortable. Knowing where your ownership of the project ends because the true ownership lies elsewhere is the real art of the practice!
after years of following your channel this is one of the real times i felt with you the joy and sadness of a painting i always believe you have great pride in your work and name. that is one of the things that draws me to your channel. but, this video hit a cord and i just want to say thank you for sharing and creating this content. I truly apreciate everything you do for the art comunity and us here watching.
I am learning a lot from this. I had experience with needing to compromise the quality of output I need to produce and there was nobody to explain it to me why like this. My boss was just like "just do it because I said so" (no, they do not practice my field, they just give out orders). I had a very conflicting feeling in my gut and I felt frustrated with myself because I didn't know how to do it. I followed my boss (as much as I can) but I was not satisfied about it because it was not the quality I'm supposed to produce based on standards. Having someone who understands the work and someone who can explain kindly is very helpful especially for us young people who are very much willing to put in the hard work but questions a lot when things do not make sense. Thank you so much for this series!
I would love to see a video showing how artists can best prepare/finish their work for proactive preservation. I follow a lot of artists online and see a wide range of varnish techniques and canvases used, etc. - from the conservator's point of view, it would be fascinating to see what the implications of those decisions and applications are!
He has generally been really cagey about the products he uses. I suspect it's to discourage people from attempting their own poorly-considered amateur conservations, but it seems unlikely that he'd reconsider that decision now. That said, I agree that it would be useful and interesting information, and he did actually mention the brand of his retouching paints in this video, so hopefully I'm wrong.
Mostly traditional methods and oils. A lot of modern oils, for example, discolor over time--like Chrome yellow (which Vinent Van Gogh called "as bright as the sun" in his now brown sunflowers). The old paints are better but even then some just had a hard time lasting. Yellows and reds commonly faded out of paintings. And other pigments like lapis lazuli are too expensive (and faked with modern branding) to be feasible for an average artist. So just do your research and do your best. Linen canvases or wood panel prepared with a marble coating, and longlasting proven oil paints.
I feel some kind of deep insult when people lose interest in a picture because of its cost. Thanks to watching your videos, I feel these pictures as living beings and to do this with them is inhuman, unfair. I am outraged
🎯 Hit the target, for sure. The art can be displayed/enjoyed, it can be restored again (if so desired), and looks fine! Everyone is only a temporary custodian and it is better than it was. Well done and excellent lessons.
Part of the reason why I watch your channel is because you always do the right thing by the customer. I'm so sorry that this project didn't turn out in the best way possible but the work that you both did on this painting I think is extraordinary. Wonderful job! Blessings.
I understand why you'd be unwilling, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE more insight into the financial aspect of conservation. I've watched all of your videos and often wonder how it's even possible that someone would be willing to pay for 10s-100s of hours of your expertise. I'd also love to hear about conservation of a watercolor because it must be so different dealing with paint that can be reactivated indefinitely.
It came out just beautiful and to think its not at 100% is just crazy! I am glad the owners didn't give up on this painting and I hope that they find some joy in it, really is a beautiful piece. Also I love your new apprentice!!
I loved this series and the approach that you took with the painting. While you couldn't be totally satisfied with how far you were actually able to go, your decision to put the final varnish was spot on. It's that kind of integrity in your business Julian that makes me keep watching what you do. As for your new apprentice, Kit? She seems to be a great addition to the studio and that you rewarded her with her apron after doing such a great job assisting you was really great. Congrats to Kit and thank you for letting us watch the sheer miracles that you create while conserving art.
When I decided officially to love kit:
Julian: kit has the day off
Kit: Shows up with orange hair
She's pretty cool. I like Kit.
That’s a different day, Julian has a different shirt on
@@kathynay5498Yeah that's how days off work.
also, the "the office" look at the camera at 32:09 lol
Kit is an awesome addition to the channel.
Julian: "No contractor has said 'let me do the bathroom too, no charge."
Also Julian: "We're underwater on this and they said they don't want to pay for varnish but we're gonna varnish it anyway."
There is a difference though. This is a product he worked on and finalized for his client. His name is on it. If anything, these are his portfolio as a conservator. You wouldn't want to publicize something that isn't representative of your standards. It hurts right now but pays of in the long run I would say.
@@Djoarhet001 I get it, it's just funny.
Yes, it's some time and money you won't get paid for, but it could be much more expensive if - without proper context - it was percieved as representative of poor workmanship. It's always a balance.
This is why I love Julian
to be fair though they're probably not under under for this thanks to the UA-cam revenue. I'm not sure exactly what the conversion is but 900k+ views across this entire 4 part series on top of patreon revenue probably more than covers the costs of a free varnish job on 1 painting.
Crazy to me that such an astonishing piece of handcrafted art can be almost totally devalued just by provenance.
It is not about provenance, it is about the artist. A copy can have all the provenance in the world, it will not make it a bit more valuable.
@@1959Berre "the place of origin or earliest known history of something"
Such as who created it, meaning the artist.
"a record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality"
Also meaning the artist.
I think you may have been thinking of another word, or just really wanted to correct someone. Even though they are correct.
Personally, I don't see what the value of a painting is because of who painted it. To me it would be the quality of the work. Actual, I do understand, why the artist makes a painting more valuable but I'm never going to own a painting done by a famous artist. Therefore it's just my appreciation of a painting that is it's value.
In Europe, there's a fair chance that nobody would want it at an auction sale. An American copy of this quality only has a vague aesthetic value, thus would not be worth more than a couple hundreds.
Some people claim that art valuation is a scam.
"It might be bad business, but it's good people" Julien is a real one.
this is mood
I remember during a live video, Julian talking about giving a lady a huge discount. Then later when he was going to bid on a large job for a church, he found out how influential the lady he gave the discount to was. Because of her, the job was his. They didn't even consider other people to do the conservation. He ended up making so much more than what he lost giving the lady a discount.
I hope the church didn’t expect the discount as well.
This is a example of good karma.
Waouh !
@@cgstadler they always do
@@yeshummingbird depends on ur beliefs, instant karma is something others also believe in
Julian: A contractor wouldn't do your bathroom for free.
Also Julian: FREE VARNISH!!!
Julian just couldn't do it, he just couldn't let a painting go out of his studio without a proper coating of varnish!
I would think the cost of renovating a bathroom would be more than a coat of varnish. That being said, I don't know how expensive that varnish is, and what the labor costs for it are (if any were paid). But, maybe Julian felt it was a loss that would pay itself back in other ways, such as maintaining a reputation of excellence and quality without exception.
@@iRunavala the amount of varnish used on a single painting typically wouldn't be too expensive, especially compared to the reputation cost of sending out a painting without a protective layer.
@@InnocentGuillotine Yea, and the client is being quite stupid with not even wanting to pay for varnishing tbh. It's like they must already have to pay at least 80% of the original conservation cost with what's been done so far, then maybe reduce the retouching to 5% instead of the 20% it would take, but then skimps up on the maybe 1% of the entire budget it would take to varnish it. Just decides to leave it unfinished at the last stretch because they weren't expecting it not making money for them.
Sure, it's a loss, but it's still better to not throw it in the garbage bin, just pay for the last bit and accept the loss. Hang it in your house or something even if it's monetarily worthless, better that trashing the piece. And maybe with some luck, there can still be some return or make it even, but you ain't gonna be having much chance of that if you leave it unfinished.
Kit: I don't really like this color.
Julien: So you have chosen violence.
I'm loving this dynamic, and I wish the best to Kit on her journey :)
I love the "I have the half of my haloween costume, then the "Christ!" from Juiian XD
Hahaha they’re so funny
They play off each other well. It's a great dynamic and adds a nice dimension to the videos and dialogue.
I think Kit is going to be a perfect foil to Julian . She's a plucky sidekick :)
Rue, when was it?
When you see Kit's discomfort over not being able to do the best that she can, you just know she's going to have a brilliant career.
I hope so. She just needs to move that isolation layer brush about twice as fast.
It’s also, as a student, exciting to work on an ‘important’ old master. It must be disappointing.
@@Voartist 😂 absolutely! Those timelapse shots! Gosh comparing Julian's pace to kit's! Wow! But It'll come with time tho, rn it's ok for her to focus on precision.
@@anagabrieltrevino5439 I like her. I think she'll do well. My advice to her, and I'm not at art expert by any means, is to intern with more than one restoration person. I think that concept applies to many professions. It's like getting a second opinion from another doctor.
I’m in print production and know and hate that feeling. When you don’t have the time to make what you produce up to your own high standards it is so demoralizing. Especially if it’s a project you’ve really gotten into it can be pretty near heartbreaking and Kit handled it like a champ.
13:58: "Everything that I do... everything that WE do..."
I love how clear it is that Julian has fully internalized that Kit is part of the team. It's clear he wants the best for her.
Having Kit around to ask questions and learn is SUCH AN INCREDIBLE ADDITION to these videos. I can’t emphasize how much depth this has added to what was already a fantastic channel. Thank you for taking the time to shoot edit and post these videos of your work. I can’t wait for the next one.
R.I.P. 😔
It slows the vids down to an insufferable level...Its like sitting in on a Grade 3 class.
@@projektkobra2247 Agreed. I know more about art conservation than Kit, just from trawling youtube for a few years.
@@yessanknow302 -I come here to watch art restored...I dont care for this new girl he has...I know thats gonna trigger the hoi-polloi in here..but these episodes are duller than watching paint dry.
Get it?
I slay me.
@@projektkobra2247 😆
The little “punk” when he threw the apron at her is probably my favorite interaction of these two yet, it gave me a fond feeling about it
Kit seems like the wind was so knocked out of her sails by all this. Julien did such a great job of guiding through what is a low point of the industry. In their field, you don't win or lose. You win or you learn.
You win BECAUSE you learn.
I love Kit, I love Kit's hair, I love Kit's attitude, I love watching her learn alongside you. You both did a great job on this painting and I'm sorry it lost so much value in the client's eyes.
Totally Agree. I cheered when Julien gave her the apron. What a moment to end this journey.
Agreed! Kit is adorable in all the best ways, and I can't wait to see more of her.
WHY?...
It was gut wrenching watching them deflate. I get that it’s a business and that ultimately, the client calls the shots. But it just feels so wrong to pull the plug on funding the project when they could’ve read the dang sticker on the back pointing to the actual artist, and googled where the painting actually came from! It was like watching them be punished for something they didn’t do.
@@innocentnemesis3519 really late to the conversation lol sorry but in one of the earlier videos they mentioned the label was on the inside of the stretcher, flush against the back of the canvas, and they we're probably the first people to see it since the painting was stretched. I dont think the client in this case had any way of knowing/seeing that before they took the canvas off
Kit getting her own apron was so cute, and I’m so glad she got it finally! I hope we get to see more of her regularly in videos, she’s has such a refreshing, spirited energy and seeing the two of you interact and collaborate is so delightful! Despite the disappointing experience you two did such a wonderful job and showed your love of the work and the craft
Poor Kit. She was applying that isolation layer like a crushed soul.🥺
What really impressed me is that even though there's a third person filming, you still feel like it's just Julian, Kit and you as the viewer. Very interesting. As if you were there yourself and were looking over their shoulder. very intimate, immersive, natural and pleasant.
Sometimes being referenceable by clients is more important than making a small profit on a project. Adding the varnish was the right move for this piece, and may bring in additional work in the future. Good Job!
The difference in the before and after is absolutely breath taking. I agree, the varnish was the right move for this one. Awesome work for the both of them 🙂
Don't forget that the extra revenue from the UA-cam/Patreon might cover some of it as well (although they would get that either way so it's still a loss).
Glad it wasn't scrapped at least.
I was just thinking the same thing. Especially if your client is a prominent figure in the art world the last thing you want to do is mislead them on the value of the painting. Sure, you’ll make some extra cash now but you’ll be out of business sooner rather than later.
Choosing to varnish shows remarkable integrity and a focus on what is important.
@@AsmodeusMictian I think the major difference was made before the discovery (lining, cleaning, flattening the canvas, etc.), which was still on path for the full deal. But yes, the retouching is just good enough to not meet the eye at a distance, making the end result a solid piece.
I love how Kit is trying to get Julian to tell her what’s really going on 😅 like she instantly knew there was an issue after the provenance conversation
I LOVE KIT. And I'm really glad you shared this painting's story because not every painting has a happy ending with clients. What a difficult position you guys were in as conservators. Keep up the great work- CONGRATS ON YOUR APRON KIT!!!
I'm glad that you hired Kit. She gives a different perspective to the restoration work that I can relate to. BTW Kit, I love the color you added to your hair.
i am also grateful for Kit, not just because it's really good to see someone learning new things and advancing in their craft and career, but also because Kit asks all kinds of questions in the moment that we, the viewers, might have and that Julian might not think to talk about since he's been doing this for so long.
YES!! Kit is such a great great Addition. We love you Kit!
Agreed! Kit is awesome. i love her earrings as well !
I like her presence. She looks interested, engaged and also interesting and with a great sense of humour. The Bob Ross comment and the "I don't like the colour" had me in stitches. She is capable and we now have proxy in the process to ask what we also wanted to ask. I adore her hair btw [though it is rude to comment on someone's appearance but what awesome hair!]
I wonder how much value is added to the painting just because Baumgartner Restoration worked on it and produced a four part video series. Not to mention the Kit factor. You can't put a price on adorable.
Kit needs a cool apron too! Edit: Just finished the video… SHE GOT AN APRON!
I dunno... that flanel shirt looks SUPER comfy...
Hey, spoilers!
Don't read comments before watching the video!
@@yorgle That's what I was thinking! I want one...
Watching this, I've concluded that someone that wants to be an art conservator should spend a couple years as a theatrical scene painter somewhere in their education. It gives you a _really_ good idea about what is good enough at 30 feet on a moving bicycle, and how to decide where you are going to spend your time on a wall-size painting, or whether you dash it out and spend your time on a small prop.
I hear that. I do costumes for theatre. Our motto is "good enough for Row L."
This applies in a lot of areas. Is it really worth it to spend double the time and effort to make a 10% improvement on something? Usually not, especially if it's to be seen for only a short time or limited audience. I say this coming from the corporate marketing / graphic design world.
@@tinderbox218 it's called the pareto principle. 80% of the result comes from 20% of the work.
even a billboard designer!
Julian: just go slow with isolation layer
also Julian: brushbrushbrush
😄
Meanwhile Kit : Yeah... Just nice and easy does it...
@@bluejar5614 unrelated but riding a motorcycle slowly is more dangerous than riding it at a "normal speed" and im absolutely talking from experience
The level of film-making Julien reached is astonishing. This is quality for TV or the top streaming platforms.
Introduce the camera man.
I'm so sorry you had to go with "good enough"; however, as you proved, a Baumgartner "good enough" is better than some people's "perfect". Great content, as usual, and, again, welcome, Kit.
There is a saying that goes:
"That will have to do! screamed the perfectionist."
Well said.
i don't think he is a top of the line restorer. his painting skill need quite a bit of work
@@paulnovak833 Wow. Back that statement up. If you can't move along.
An original Murillo is worth millions - a copy of a Murillo is worth as much as a copy of anything else.
Have no illusions: fine art is not owned for it's beauty, but as it's value as an investment medium, like mansions or wine. 99% of art pieces are simply aesthetic - which is investors do not buy them because they can neither store nor generate wealth, merely beauty and humanity. F that, right?
Isn't Kit just a gem. I love her as an addition to Julian. I relate so much to her wanting to decorate her new apron!
Not gonna lie, Julian. I'm actually kind of glad it was NOT a Murillo - because that meant it most definitely was NOT one of the 18 stolen Murillos that have not yet been recovered by Spanish authorities, meaning you are free of the ethical problem of "do I report my client to the authorities or not?". Not even writting that in jest. The arrival to a conservator's studio of a painting that may have been stolen is a huge can of worms, and I'm actually glad you dodged that bullet and we all can just relax and apretiate the conservation work.
Oh wow I never considered that... It makes me wonder if there's some kind of archive of all the stolen paintings from around the world where museums, private collectors, and conservation personnel can screen for stolen goods. Who would you even report that to? Just your local police? I imagine if a stolen painting has left its country of origin you would eventually have to get some kind of international organization involved. A touchy subject to be sure!
That would be a no brainer for any serious conservator like Julian. Of course he would have to report it or risk his reputation. The current situation is much more tricky as you want to conserve as much value for the client but can’t be involved in covering-up the true identity of the painting...
@@Creature_of_Knight Italy has a specific branch in one of our police forces that has an archive of every piece of art that has been stolen from our country and they cooperate with other countries to bring the pieces back, so there must be an equivalent in other countries
For the very same reason, major galleries keep provenance records on every piece in their collection. Some make this documentation freely available online. No serious, legitimate buyer is going to acquire a piece with an unknown history. It may be stolen or a forgery.
@@Creature_of_Knight It highly depends on countries, and the specific structure it happens in. How the authorities were made aware of it as well (whistleblower, customs, warrant discovery after investigation, etc). Egypt for instance has a dedicated police force for cultural items trafficking. France as well. A judiciary group called TREIMA (an acronym that basically means "Thesaurus of imagery and electronic research in artistic matters") will authenticate a piece. If it happens to be a stolen piece, responsibility will be determined (was the owner unwitting? Or knowingly buying stollen goods? etc). After that, proper judicial procedures begin. Once they are over, the piece is to be returned to the owner. If it's a matter of international relations (say, a stollen mummy, or a crown jewel that belongs to a country) Ministry of culture takes over, jointly with external affairs, to give back the pieceto an embassy which will manage from that point. Or, if the owner isn't a state (individuals, institutions, estates,...) the tribunal will be contacting the rightful owner for retrieval.
The biggest chunk of work to detect stolen art, however, is a database shared by Interpol, that is often retransmitted to people like Julian (at leats in France), appraisers, art insurance companies etc. TREIMA, or equivallent groups, employs a ton of historians and various kinds of experts to expand that database from older crime (take for instance post-WWII losses of jewish-owned paintings, or pillaged museums in occupied countries) and police personel to update modern crime (break-ins and heists).
Ooh. Yes, the “good enough” mantra is like listening to nails on a chalkboard. I understand Julian and Kit’s pain at being forced to be just okay when they can be dazzling.
As a sound editor I often face the same kind of challenge when clients say, "Just clean up the sound a bit, we don't have the budget to do a full edit." How far do I go when the sound is obviously flawed?
Oh yes.
As a video editor too. The gray is so subjective it becomes painful to work with.
I get the same when restoring antique guitars: I know can make it a fully playable instrument, but the client just want to conserve it so it doesn't deteriorate any further.
It is actually very simple.
As owner of the business you sould know how much an hour of your work costs (based on your expenses, costs and desired income).
With that you simply take the amount of money presented by client and then divide it by cost of your work for hour. Then you get how many hours of your work your client bought and just simply work for that amount of time over given project.
@@crazyfrytka That can end up with you having a not finished work if you ends up working more hours on some parts. Like, if you had to do some painting at the end but then you're out of time, do you turn a low quality work that may hurt you in the future?
Sometimes when you work in private practice you have to eat a bit of a loss to protect some notion of quality work so you don't harm yourself, and hope it may propel to better budgeted works in the future.
And thus ends the Mentorship Arc. Love the work they put into adapting the dialogue from the manga. Julian and Kit’s heartbreak over the painting’s value was a pretty compelling twist that’s adding so much depth. Such awesome character development, great arc. Can’t wait to see what they do with the Phantom Canvas Arc.
A+++ comment.
(It really is a fantastic series for those reasons, though, all joking aside. I feel bad for enjoying it so much when it was so unfortunate for them!!)
I bet the Chimera Tacks arc will be nice
I think Scraping comes back in that arc. He was always my favorite villain from the first season.
@A CV not the spoiler 😧
Kit putting a Bob Ross badge on her apron, brilliant.
the apron part was so goddamn satisfying. I didn’t realize how invested I was
I liked this 4 part series. While explaining things to Kit, it gave me a better understanding of the decisions that go into the restoration. I know that it is sort of taboo to discuss costs of clients works, but the discussion of 'art as an investment' did come up. I'd like to see a discussion that goes into numbers (generally). Maybe talk about the range in value of paintings that come to you. A range of cost to restore and what the increase in value could be realized.
Keep up the great content. It's always a pleasure to see you have posted something new.
LOL, "I'm going to put a Bob Ross button on it." 😀Congrats on getting your apron, Kitt! And your "good enough" still looked pretty great.
Kit’s enthusiasm to get past the isolation layer was pretty funny 😂😂
I love Kit, she is such a nice breath of fresh air in the studio. I love how with her there and learning that the time is taken to go go more in-depth on the process. I would enjoy having more multi part episodes like this one to see Kit grow as a conservator.
The frustration in Kit's reaction is palpable, but I think she's getting a rare opportunity to learn a very important aspect of the business. This is an extreme case which forces you to make difficult decisions, and those decisions can make the difference between making some profit (even if it's small) and losing money because of investing too much time on the piece. Having the guidance of a seasoned professional for this type of cases at this point is invaluable.
Hey guys,
You are blowing my mind with these master/apprentice videos! In my opinion - this is probably the best and most engaging video ever produced on this channel! And that is saying something, because I looove your videos and consider them to be superb quality content that I have followed fervently for the past several years. I have learned so much, got to see such beautiful art getting unearthed from so many layers of grime, and have gotten the best ASMR goosebumps watching Julian and his meticulous little instruments squirreling away at a patch of painting! :D Kit is awesome! Slowly getting more relaxed with the camera and the situation, and starting to express more of her opinions, which is great! :)
We get to see an authentic twist with the provenance, opening up a can of worms that you proceed to deal with, on camera, sharing a back-and-forth of opinions and gauging art-vs-business arguments. That is some prime stuff - I was glued to the screen with expectation! :)
I hope that this duo continues with futher videos, so we can all be a part of your journey together as master and apprentice, solving conservation crimes and busting bad retouchers together!!! :D Cannot wait for more of this! :)
All the best!
i have been watching julien for the past 3-4 years and i just noticed how much the production value has increased into julian making these videos for us. feels really nice watching this channel grow.
I was wondering why this painting needed such a long series, but after seeing all of it, I think this whole process needed the 4 parts to do it justice. I appreciate the thought process and narrative surrounding mentorship and the work on this painting, and I’m glad that you were able to make a satisfying conclusion to the situation for everyone. Also congrats to Kit!
"We're going to varnish it."
"The client said they don't want to varnish it."
"Well, the client said they didn't want to pay for varnish."
Good guy Julian and with foresight about making a potential future client as happy as he can given the situation.
20:15 Ha, now we know what Kit did on her day off 🤭
Love Kit, love the new hair, love such a bittersweet but satisfying ending to the Apprentice Saga!
Julian, I commend your use of language and methods in teaching Kit your trade, no ego stroking (except in jest), or put downs because she has a question, which I super appreciate and very much notice. Good on you, and good job Kit. Also nice hair, both of you lol
Kit’s awesome, you’re lucky to find somebody so young who’s serious enough to do this work properly, but still cheeky enough to make you roll your eyes - it’s good for your eyeballs, she should do it more. 😁
yay more Kit!! also - Julian, I would love to hear more about the whole business of art.
I have a weird ambivalence in knowing how much commodified the art world has been (as a way to launder money, and invest, and avoid paying taxes on wealth) while also knowing that there are lots of genuine art lovers out there laboring in the museums and galleries of the world
Wouldn't that be self-sabotaging for Julian to talk about it?
@@anya_mz my thought exactly, but if Julian wants to share he can, not up to us.
Would also love to hear his perspective. If he ever does a Q&A after this I hope that someone asks him what paintings he bought/why he got them.
You did amazing work on this one. A ton of repair to the stitched area, massive painting, all ready for retouching. To be told to fumble your brushes... so sorry. At the very least, you know that the buyer is going to hang the painting. Hopefully it will be appreciated, and not viewed through a shallow lens as money lost.
I definitely understand the disappointment in not finishing this conversation to your standards. If it makes you feel any better, as someone with formal education in painting, I'd much rather have one of my paintings at least partially retouched than not retouched at all. This painting left your studio in a much better state than it came in.
Also congrats to Kit on getting her official apron!
Julian...your level of integrity is so rare and refreshing!!!......it was so interesting to see how you dealt with this issue!!
The client got a bargain. I'm sure he knew that Julian would make it look worthy of display even if he didn't pay for all the work.
What's in a name? We often attach value to the name of the artist or craftsman or manufacturer, and we admire the beauty of a product because of it. Then, if we discover that it's just a copy or a fake, suddenly it's less beautiful, yet the item is unchanged. I have mixed feelings about this.
There is the impermanence of human existence. We can't live forever into the future, but we can hold hands with the past - and that extends our own life into that past. If I hold my grandfather's gardening tools, I am holding hands with him in 1932 when he used those tools. If someone told me that the tool was replaced ten years ago with a replica, the tool loses that magic.
It's the association bias (or I think that's what it is called) we link objects with actual unrelated things in either a positive or negative way. It's the reason why you wouldn't want to live in a house where somebody died or like a painting just because you like the artist.
I wholeheartedly agree. Let's say you have two identical paintings, the only difference is that one was painted by a famous artist, the other a copy. Does this make the copy any less beautiful just because it's not done by the artist? Sure, monetary value may be different.
@@amcconnell6730 I get what you're saying but that's somewhat of an imperfect analogy isn't it. A painting isn't a piece of equipment to dig dirt with but arguably has an intrinsic value which is its beauty and the craftsmanship and artistry that went into it. Imho it doesn't only get its value from who happened to touch it. Rather the opposite - certain artists are considered important _because_ of the quality of the art they created. If an artwork was so beautiful and masterfully executed that people thought it was an original, you should think it has an intrinsic value and if anything, it proves that the artist that made it may be deserving of more recognition than they got. Attaching the value of a piece entirely to a name, even knowing how elitist, exclusive and arbitrary the art industry has always been, is really a rather weird attitude towards art that I wish wasn't so common. I find it hard to believe that a creation completely loses its value just because of who made it.
I think Julian explained it clearly at the beginning: problem is less the name than the body of work : the more paintings you sell, the higher the price of your paintings. It’s not the case of the artist here. Also the impact of your work is to consider. Obviously if you made a copy you didn’t entirely create this, whatever the level of skill necessary to reproduce it.
While I'm sorry that the project was cut short in this case, I have to say I really enjoyed the new format for the video. Having Kit alongside you, explaining things to her and focusing on dialogue for learning and understanding the process and techniques is interesting, and it has a much more natural feel to it. Thank you for your time and effort in both your work and your editing!
Oh, I was so worried that this wouldn't get finished at all. A middle approach is definitely lemonade Edit: it was so professional to varnish regardless of going into the red on this one
That was a smart move by him. It cost him half an hour and a few bucks in material, while getting in the clients's good side
@@Edino_Chattino Is it even worth getting in the good side of such a client? That last varnishing would likely cost at worst 1% of the entire project, and the client must need to pay like at least 80% for the job that has already been done. To skimp on the last 1% and leave the painting without the main protective layer is just... idiotic at best. The client should have just taken the loss with some grace, he can at least hang it in his home or something, surely is better than trashing it after having to pay so much. So yea, i sure wouldn't want a client like this...
Having Kit in this narrative really makes this channel even more captivating. I'm learning so much because I wasnt expecting to witness the drama about the artist reveal.
Loved hearing Julian and Kitt talking about art... would love to hear more about their experiences and opinions!
That whole discussion felt like a build up for the ad though. Very contrived.
@@davidlylejones True. Thats why I dislike the kind of in-video ads he does, they always feel so forced. And sometimes when they don't feel forced or when I forget that he does those and I get invested into what he is telling, I am so disappointed that it was just for the ad.
Word.
@@davidlylejones I didn't have the feeling you described while watching.
The conversation about value and how to deal with clients willingness of investment keeps going after the advertisement. Different central point, but dependent on the question how people value art. And might value different.
Even if it is contrived, it might also come from rehearsal, a second shot because the first one was bad (some other problem with the mic)? Or they had this talk off camera?
And we still have the project which has been cut short. Just that for an ad? Done less sophisticated retouching, remove and redo it for the revenue? I doubt that.
My feeling is, Julian chooses the advertiser that fits the narrative best. Not the other way around.
@@Paranaith
I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I always hate when UA-camrs try to weave their sponsorship ads into the overall narrative of the video.
Like, you’re not being clever. I know I’m being advertised to. I don’t think I’ve ever been tricked by a UA-camr’s sponsorship segue. I can always see it coming, especially if it’s a sponsor I’ve seen a thousand times before.
Just put in a regular commercial break. Just pause the video and say “hey, time for an ad break.” I don’t care how elaborate or creative your skit is, I’m still skipping it every single time and blacklisting whatever sponsor you’re advertising, because I hate being advertised to. So save yourself some time and energy.
I’ve got nothing against UA-camrs taking sponsorships. By all means, get that money. Just don’t insult my intelligence. I can see your “clever segues” from a mile away.
Her hair is so pretty!! I really hope we see more of her work, she'd be an amazing permanent addition to the studio
That's the thing about how I feel about art. In the digital space, copying art is a button click away and opening a program to make slight alterations. Previously was the process of photocopying. Many beginning investors of the time were taken in by a photocopy that was "treated" to look authentic (Think of the Whistlers Mother poster from the movie Bean) a person with enough time could overlay a poster or photocopy onto a canvas and work it enough to feel like a canvas and apply a thick varnish. However the person that did this, while it is a copy of another work, had to have actual skill to recreate it.. I am sure on very close comparison with the original, differing brush strokes would become apparent, but it still took a skilled hand to make. You will never own the original, so it comes down to "Did you buy this because you love the painting and the subject of it, or did you buy this because of the artists name and value?" From what is said in the video, it is public knowledge that the original is in a museum, so what did this person believe they bought in the first place?
I love that Mr. Bean movie.
Because they gambled on it being a contemporary of him or from his school, which would have value according to the art investment world.
They may not have known about the original before buying it. And it does bring up the point that the painter obviously made a living painting copies which if sold as such aren't a problem. But if the painting is bought and sold as an original then things get difficult and disappointing.
Sometimes multiple "copies" of the same or similar painting are made by the school, in which the original artist might still be involved in, for instance, putting the sketch on canvas. Some paintings are studies for others (although those are usually smaller). Trying out compositions, getting facial expressions right, ... Putting a large masterpiece straight on canvas without any practice pieces before is rare indeed.
@@BrianAndrews73 Did you not listen to Julian? He's said previous and in this episode repeatedly as well that they knew that the original was in the museum before purchasing it.
I definitely LOVE the way you edited the before and after shots at the end. That is the most satisfying part of the video for me. Often you do them quickly and I have to pause the video to get any detail and this time I could enjoy them in real time. Great job!
kit is such an amazing addition, i love the new hair and her knighting into the studio!
This situation is why the drama and politics around art has me keeping my distance. Everyone saw this painting you are restoring and thought it was beautiful and wonderful when it was thought to be by a preferred artist but then its discovered it was painted by a much lesser known artist. From that point you can tell the wind completely drained from everyone's sails. Budget was cut and it turned into a rush job. I can understand people wanting sound investments but as an artist its disheartening knowing no matter what I paint or draw it will never be desirable because of who I am, nobody
There's certainly significant skill and talent in being able to reproduce this painting, and that is not worthless - one would assume that Mr. Strecher made something of a living at it - but the true art is in the concept, not the execution. It's certainly skillful to play a Rachmaninoff or Hendrix composition, but we generally still recognize the composer over the instrumentalist. Murillo was also nobody until he created something new. Strecher remained "nobody" because he didn't create anything new. He was just a talented technician.
Van Gogh said the same... Keep painting. There's a reason you love to paint.
really feeling the same here, it's... frustrating to say the absolute least, that vague aura of greed
I agree, it's interesting because he's restored paintings from completely unknown individuals with no known value and those owners are perfectly OK with that because the painting is special to them.
@@wbfaulk The thing is though it was always known to be a copy. The question is why is a contemporary copy worse less than a period copy?
Because the art world says so lol
What a tough place for the owner to be - when the restoration budget would be greater than the value of the painting. This is why loving the art itself is paramount for me.
It might not have much monetary value, but its creator poured their heart and soul into it. And it is a beautiful painting, and diligently restored. So for me it is a beautiful work of art. It has touched my heart.
Been and antique dealer and art collector for 35 Years. When it comes to antiques I usually absolutely know what I'm buying. When it comes to art? I do as much due dillegence as I can, I always buy something I like, I dont think about resale but If i feel its too much I walk away. I have bought some very nice pieces that have apprecitaed but not my goal. I surround myself with things I love,
I love how Kit has based her entire wardrobe, save her last outfit, on jurassic park!
maybe not the DARE t-shirt but the vibes are absolutely on
This is one of the largest restorations yet and a great intro for Kit
Faced with this sort of a situation, the admiration I have had for Julian has increased greatly. His bringing together logic and art is amazing. For me, as I look at this painting, I marvel at what I see. I see more than just a mechanically produced work of art. I see a connection between the artist, his talent and the subject matter he is painting. I could never place a monetary value on that. I understand why the history surrounding the painting makes it of lesser importance. But, again, I see a painting created by an artist that was able to show something deeper than paint, canvas, and shape.
The artist may not have been famous but this painting should be. Yes it's a copy but just from the look of the canvas on the back it is unique. I have been endeavoring to use colored and custom canvas to bring the back of the canvas into the painting.
That skill being unknown? Tragic. His art was amazingly well done.
I can see that Kit’s chomping at the bit, eager to get started retouching. A keeper.
Kitt getting the apron made me feel like a proud parent
I've just completed this four-part series and I could feel Kit's sense of deflation through the screen! I was also genuinely surprised at the owner's decision to leave the painting unvarnished, especially given how much work had already gone into the restoration.
You would think that they would want to protect what they'd already paid for or at the very least show some respect and appreciation for the level of care, time and effort expended by these two meticulous professionals.
I certainly hope that the owner watched this entire series, saw the work required, and felt more than a bit embarrassed for cheaping out on the last step. New sub!
I’d love to see more of Kit’s journey and more of this mentorship! It’s a whole new dimension to these videos. The apron at the end was so sweet. What a special series this was.
After the Dialogues of Plato we have the Dialogues of Julian.
Really, this dialogue form is very interesting and teaches a lot of things, thanks!
Shares in paintings is still an awkward idea to me no matter how many times I hear it.
It’s like shares in prized show horses, it’s just how expensive rich people stuff works
It’s very strange to see, I wonder who started the movement of taking shares in art as a whole
Sort of takes the soul out of art. And ultimately it’s only worth what it’s worth when it gets sold to a buyer. Surely you can’t just artificially increase the value of your shares until the piece actually gets sold
@@Francoberry only if you decide to look at it in that way.
Look at it this way, more paintings than ever before have resources allocated to their preservation.
No different than investing in gold, really.
That's a really, really important life lesson you learn as you get older. Focus on the task at hand. Yes, there are problems to deal with the in the near future but if you don't concentrate on the present you'll create new problems.
It's great that you have Kit to bounce things off of rather than you just monologuing. And she has a great presence.
Monologuing lol. Sounds funny
That was a heartbreaking decision made by the client, but you guys still saved this painting. Hopefully it will end up in someone's home, able to be enjoyed.
This episode is freaking amazing. So honest and insightful. And i love how Kit gives Mr. Baumgartner the dry humor he definetly appreciates. 😁
Once upon a time, I was restoring an old air-cooled Porsche 911, and I discovered to my chagrin that it was actually just a hopped-up Volkswagen Beetle.
Jeremy Clarkson was here, in spirit. ;-) !!
I feel sorry for people who collect art this way. Even if it IS the monetary value of art is what actually SAVES many pieces, even pieces like this.
The client knew this was a copy, they took the gamble on what sort of copy it was. That is on them. This piece still has tremendous aesthetic and artistic value
and was executed by a person of high skill. Perhaps that person's work will be recognized and accrue more (monetary) value in years to come.
But when you buy a piece of art like this - you have to love it. not just for the $$$ attached - or you will be disappointed by every cent lost on your pie- in- the- sky aspirations.
That sounds like a miserable way to experience anything much less "art", therefore it's short sighted to treat such works as merely commodities.
Yeah, but would you rather have a beautiful painting worth $500 or a beautiful painting worth 2.5 million? The client isn't wrong to be disappointed even if their hopes were artificially inflated to begin with.
@@carlotta4th That’s not the point of art in the first place. Whichever one speaks to you the most.
@@oscodains this. i would much rather have an attachment to a $500 painting that i own than have a $2.5 million painting that i just dont like
@@nadismolina exactly, take "Who's afraid of red blue and yellow". It's worth a lot, although it doesn't speak to me on a personal level, whereas if you take a recreation of one of Van Gough's works from 50 years ago, worth maybe $200, I'd hang that up in a heartbeat
@@carlotta4th I wouldn’t care as long as I loved it… in fact I’m not sure I’d want to be responsible for something worth that much…
To the question in the first video, it was asked what reasons we watch these videos. I have 3 reasons!! His voice is calming & ASMR is how I’d describe how I feel. He doesn’t make conservation look or sound boring but informative and exciting. It’s also refreshing to see, hear and appreciate this behind the scenes world that most people have no idea about. I’ve been following for years now and the journey has been so rewarding and inspiring in my own life that what I myself have been through in my life has helped me find grounding, therapeutic and spiritual. In the end, I just love watching this instead of watching something that has no substance or meaning and isn’t what’s popular or flashy, loud! It’s just right!! 😉👍🏼🙏🏽🥰 Thank you
Excellent series! This kind of content reminds me of special documentaries on PBS many years ago, they were known for unique content and their quality was exceptional, except in my opinion you have surpassed them in many ways and your channel should win some kind of award for production and quality! I'm really amazed by the effort you put into everything you do and take no short cuts. My grandfather used to say you only leave behind your reputation!!
love julian’s approach of teaching, that any of kit’s misunderstanding is a failure to teach, not a failure to learn. a very positive learning environment. i love it.
Wow. I feel so bad for the owner. But I also loved the discussions and explanations you had with Kit on how to deal with a hard situation.
I love the discussion about where to draw the line within the imposed limitations. These kinds of issues arise in many endeavors and they are uncomfortable. Knowing where your ownership of the project ends because the true ownership lies elsewhere is the real art of the practice!
after years of following your channel this is one of the real times i felt with you the joy and sadness of a painting i always believe you have great pride in your work and name. that is one of the things that draws me to your channel. but, this video hit a cord and i just want to say thank you for sharing and creating this content. I truly apreciate everything you do for the art comunity and us here watching.
I am learning a lot from this. I had experience with needing to compromise the quality of output I need to produce and there was nobody to explain it to me why like this. My boss was just like "just do it because I said so" (no, they do not practice my field, they just give out orders). I had a very conflicting feeling in my gut and I felt frustrated with myself because I didn't know how to do it. I followed my boss (as much as I can) but I was not satisfied about it because it was not the quality I'm supposed to produce based on standards. Having someone who understands the work and someone who can explain kindly is very helpful especially for us young people who are very much willing to put in the hard work but questions a lot when things do not make sense. Thank you so much for this series!
I would love to see a video showing how artists can best prepare/finish their work for proactive preservation. I follow a lot of artists online and see a wide range of varnish techniques and canvases used, etc. - from the conservator's point of view, it would be fascinating to see what the implications of those decisions and applications are!
If he ever does a Q&A I really hope that someone asks this.
He has generally been really cagey about the products he uses. I suspect it's to discourage people from attempting their own poorly-considered amateur conservations, but it seems unlikely that he'd reconsider that decision now. That said, I agree that it would be useful and interesting information, and he did actually mention the brand of his retouching paints in this video, so hopefully I'm wrong.
Mostly traditional methods and oils. A lot of modern oils, for example, discolor over time--like Chrome yellow (which Vinent Van Gogh called "as bright as the sun" in his now brown sunflowers). The old paints are better but even then some just had a hard time lasting. Yellows and reds commonly faded out of paintings. And other pigments like lapis lazuli are too expensive (and faked with modern branding) to be feasible for an average artist.
So just do your research and do your best. Linen canvases or wood panel prepared with a marble coating, and longlasting proven oil paints.
This was probably one of your most valuable series you’ve put out to date. Such good lessons for creators and contractors of all kinds.
This is a master class series, peeking behind the curtain. Thank-you for putting the quality /standard of your restoration work into your videos!
I feel some kind of deep insult when people lose interest in a picture because of its cost. Thanks to watching your videos, I feel these pictures as living beings and to do this with them is inhuman, unfair. I am outraged
I really love Kit! She's been asking so many good/interesting questions and it makes the videos more dimensional and even more fun to watch!
🎯 Hit the target, for sure. The art can be displayed/enjoyed, it can be restored again (if so desired), and looks fine! Everyone is only a temporary custodian and it is better than it was. Well done and excellent lessons.
I could literally feel your pain on this one, but despite the circumstances, you still managed to make this painting beautiful again. Bravo! 👏👏👏👏👏
Kit is gonna be a fantastic conservator. Professionnal, and with good ethics.
An excellent series! Kit makes for a great co-host!
Do another one!
Part of the reason why I watch your channel is because you always do the right thing by the customer. I'm so sorry that this project didn't turn out in the best way possible but the work that you both did on this painting I think is extraordinary. Wonderful job! Blessings.
I understand why you'd be unwilling, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE more insight into the financial aspect of conservation. I've watched all of your videos and often wonder how it's even possible that someone would be willing to pay for 10s-100s of hours of your expertise.
I'd also love to hear about conservation of a watercolor because it must be so different dealing with paint that can be reactivated indefinitely.
i would love to hear about watercolor conservation!
It’s like my favourite tv show intruduced a new character. I love her!
Thank you for the insides and harsh realities of ups and downs in the art world. Very much appreciated !
It came out just beautiful and to think its not at 100% is just crazy! I am glad the owners didn't give up on this painting and I hope that they find some joy in it, really is a beautiful piece. Also I love your new apprentice!!
I loved this series and the approach that you took with the painting. While you couldn't be totally satisfied with how far you were actually able to go, your decision to put the final varnish was spot on. It's that kind of integrity in your business Julian that makes me keep watching what you do. As for your new apprentice, Kit? She seems to be a great addition to the studio and that you rewarded her with her apron after doing such a great job assisting you was really great. Congrats to Kit and thank you for letting us watch the sheer miracles that you create while conserving art.
More Kit please! Absolutely love hearing you explain things to her, and the energy the two of you have is great.