I do think the slow decline and fall of Arnor at the hands of the Witch King would lend itself very well to a TV series, probably more so than any other event in Arda. He's already a very well known character and insight into his strategies and though process independent of Sauron would be interesting.
I literally just thought about this the other day. They could even have Glorfindel telling his “he will die but not by a man” prophecy, could even include a little backstory on the establishment of the Dunedain ranger and how they came to be, which would make way for the back story of Aragorn, it would tie so well into the movies. Amazon does have the money and rights to make it happen since they have the rights to the appendices, however they were concerned with telling their own story -_-, maybe once AI video technology gets better people will be able to make their own Tolkien shows.
I had never thought about it before but you're absolutely right, the slow, political and military encroachment of Angmar into Eriador, as what remains of Arnor is slowly consumed by Angmar as the Arnorians fight a losing war and beg for assistance from their allies.
I love the worldbuilding detail that the Stewards technically ruled in Earnur's name until Aragorn was proclaimed king. To avoid political instability, the Gondorians (legally) pretended that Earnur was still missing and kept up the status quo of the Stewards ruling while he was "away" in Minas Morgul. Even 1000 years later, Denethor II is serious about the formalities - he tells Boromir that in a cultured land like Gondor, a Steward never becomes a king. When Cirion and Eorl create Rohan and its alliance to Gondor with their oath, Steward Cirion has to caveat that his commitment can only last until the king (who has really been dead for over 500 years) returns. And this bears fruit when, after Aragorn receives the crown from Earnur's empty grave, he re-swears the oath with King Eomer to give it the royal approval it now needed.
The century from 1950 to 2050 was a devastating century for the Free Peoples: Kingdom of Arnor, destroyed Kingdom of Khazad-dûm, destroyed Kingdom of Lórien, depopulated and left kingless Principality of Edhellond, abandoned Kingdom of Gondor, lost an important city and left kingless The preceding century wasn't kind either, as it saw the destruction of the Kingdom of Rhovanion.
On the other hand, there were some important victories and achievements as well: Kingdom of Angmar, destroyed Kingdom of Eotheod in the North, established Dragon Scatha, killed Kingdom of Erebor, established Galador the Half-Elf, founder of the line of the princes of Dol Amroth, born. Also the Watchful Peace started somewhat later (2063), giving some breathing room and time to recover to the Free Peoples.
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ Assuming, of course, that Galador really was a half-elf and that Mithrellas is more than just a legend 😛 But yes, Gandalf's visiting Dol Guldur and causing Sauron to leave, thus starting the Watchful Peace, may have saved the Third Age.
I always think that the Witch-king did not mind of being enslaved to Sauron. He could be a power-hungry king as a mortal that seek more power and knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if he was among the Numenorians like the King's Men that worship Melkor as Sauron intended. For the Witch-king, this is a gift from the divine, the true passage unlike the Valars from Valinor that don't offer sanctum. So while he came to service the dark lord. He was happy to served a 'benevolent god' that give him and his brothers knowledge, wisdom, and powers beyond other Men could hoped for. The ring may enslaved him but for the Witch-king, this is a blessing.
I could see him having a kind of love-hate relationship with his existence. It would probably depend a lot on how much he missed the pleasure of having a proper body. Did he long to enjoy a meal or a woman still after 1000's of years as a wraith. All that power, but unable to enjoy the fruits of it. If he didn't have such urges anymore, he probably minds his current state much less.
Given the preponderance of recurring themes and cyclical history in Tolkien’s legendarium, I've often wondered about the Witch King vis a vis Morgoth and Sauron. Who was the Witch King's chief lieutenant? Did he have a clear successor among men who might have survived the end of the third age?
Khamul the Easterling is mentioned as being only second to the WK in power among the Nazgul and has a kind of leadership role in Tolkien's ancillary writing. OTOH he seems rather inept during the hunt for the Ring, for example being hopelessly bamboozled by an elderly Hobbit gardener. So maybe it's not coincidental that, after the WK's destruction, somebody named Gothmog took over at Pelennor Fields rather than Khamul.
I doubt it. Sauron was Morgoth's chief lieutenant but Sauron did not have anyone in an equivalent role until after Morgoth was gone. And I don't think any of them thought about having a successor as they didn't expect to be vanquished.
A lot of what you cover, at least since I subscribed about a year ago, seems to be on the second and third ages, do you plan to do content covering the first age? It's not like there wasn't much going on then.
I don't think people generally realise just how bad the Witch king was. The wars of Angmar were the most devastating wars in middle earth's history since the war of wrath at the end of the first age, he single handedly depopulated most of Eriador while also utterly fucking up the two biggest kingdoms in the land. He would have been a lot more familiar to the middle men of the third age than Sauron who basically hadn't been seen or heard of in 3 millennia, so he basically would have been a Hitlerian figure in their imagination, far worse than Sauron. I imagine there would have been a lot of people in western middle earth who only really gave Sauron the time of day because they realised that the Witch king was one of his underlings. There would have been people who were only able to judge Sauron's evil because of the presence of the Witch king. Hell, I'm of the opinion that if Sauron wanted to, he could have staged a fake war between the forces of Minas Morgul and a coalition made of Haradrim and Rhunites and portrayed himself as the liberator of middle earth and it probably would have worked!! As an example I would like to bring up the manga and anime series Overlord, in which a Sauronic main character; Ains Ooal Gown pulls this trick with a kingdom he intends to influence by sending one of his underlings, Demiurge (under the secret identity of Yaldabaoth) to stir up discontent among various demi-human tribes and move them to war. This then allows him to come in and "defeat" "Yaldabaoth's" invasion/rebellion and become the saviour of the kingdom. This succeeded, even though Gown made no effort to hide his evil brand and had previously used exceptionally powerful magic, beyond the bounds of what was believed possible, to slaughter a full army of 80,000 soldiers to a man.
I just want to ask the three elven rings were meant to preserve the magic of middle-earth that was slowly disappearing thanks to Morgoth's taint, so does that mean the description we get of Rivendell and Lotherien is what all of Middle-Earth looked like at the end of the second age as with Sauron's losing of the One Ring they could finally use the elven rings, so the magic could only be preserved from that point. Does any of tolkiens letters or writings tell us?
Since DG mentioned how we don't know how or if Gondor tried to resist the taking of Minas Ithil, I'll mention a very intriguing speculation he made about this in an old video about the LOTRO Minas Morgul expansion: _"[The Nazgul] besieged the city for two years before taking it. Which is odd, because Minas Tirith is_ *right there.* _I'm not sure why they didn't help Minas Ithil. Maybe the people of Minas Ithil were dicks and deserved it, who knows."_
It surprises me that Sauron wasn’t discovered earlier. Was there a real chance that he could have been discovered earlier in the Third Age? And if so, would that have changed the Third Age?
He could've been discovered earlier in Dol Guldur because the white council was already suspicious about Sauron returning but Saruman prevented that. If he would've been discovered earlier his enemies would've been also alarmed and prepared earlier. But I think it would not have changed much.
This raises a question of mine: why didn't the Witch-King attempt to replace his master [Sauron] as his annihilation of Eriador and the remnants of Arnor just by himself is very impressive and demonstrates his status as a threat to the West and the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth? Since Sauron's defeat by the Last Alliance during the Second Age, he was already in a vulnerable state, and it required centuries for him to gain back enough strength. He could've easily been killed by the Witch-King if said Witch-King was able to roll a nat 20 on his scheming and tactical prowess. The Witch-King also had access to Dark Magic and might have been able to use it to break himself of his enslavement somehow. Edit: I was wrong and I have been rightly corrected.
Not at all. Tolkien says in his letters that Witch King and the other wraiths had no way of breaking their bonds from Sauron as he possessed their rings. Also while still weakened, Sauron was still too powerful to be killed by the Witch King as you suggest. In the Hunt for the King Witch King sees that his journey is in peril but he still continues because of his "fear of the wrath of Sauron".
The Witch-king was bound to Sauron and to the one ring. He had no free will. Maybe he hated Sauron for what he did to him. But he had no choice but to follow Sauron's orders because Sauron was still the Lord of Rings. Sauron even took back the nine rings and by that he ensured his power over the Nazgûl.
The Witch King's enslavement to Sauron's will was so complete that he wouldn't have been able to make an attempt to break free. Sauron entrusted the search for the One Ring to the Witch King and the other Ringwraiths because he knew they could not betray him and attempt to seize the Ring.
The last time I was this early, Arthedain was still going strong!
Arthedain? Last time I was this early Gondolin was still going strong!
I do think the slow decline and fall of Arnor at the hands of the Witch King would lend itself very well to a TV series, probably more so than any other event in Arda. He's already a very well known character and insight into his strategies and though process independent of Sauron would be interesting.
Just don't let Prime do it, because Bezos will bastardize it like he did the Second Age.
I literally just thought about this the other day. They could even have Glorfindel telling his “he will die but not by a man” prophecy, could even include a little backstory on the establishment of the Dunedain ranger and how they came to be, which would make way for the back story of Aragorn, it would tie so well into the movies. Amazon does have the money and rights to make it happen since they have the rights to the appendices, however they were concerned with telling their own story -_-, maybe once AI video technology gets better people will be able to make their own Tolkien shows.
I had never thought about it before but you're absolutely right, the slow, political and military encroachment of Angmar into Eriador, as what remains of Arnor is slowly consumed by Angmar as the Arnorians fight a losing war and beg for assistance from their allies.
They'd probably have to do time jumps, which is never ideal for a TV-serie.
@@superslayerguy they'd need the rights to the silmarillion. But they'd completely ruin it nonetheless. Even if they'd have the rights to everything
I love the worldbuilding detail that the Stewards technically ruled in Earnur's name until Aragorn was proclaimed king. To avoid political instability, the Gondorians (legally) pretended that Earnur was still missing and kept up the status quo of the Stewards ruling while he was "away" in Minas Morgul. Even 1000 years later, Denethor II is serious about the formalities - he tells Boromir that in a cultured land like Gondor, a Steward never becomes a king.
When Cirion and Eorl create Rohan and its alliance to Gondor with their oath, Steward Cirion has to caveat that his commitment can only last until the king (who has really been dead for over 500 years) returns. And this bears fruit when, after Aragorn receives the crown from Earnur's empty grave, he re-swears the oath with King Eomer to give it the royal approval it now needed.
The century from 1950 to 2050 was a devastating century for the Free Peoples:
Kingdom of Arnor, destroyed
Kingdom of Khazad-dûm, destroyed
Kingdom of Lórien, depopulated and left kingless
Principality of Edhellond, abandoned
Kingdom of Gondor, lost an important city and left kingless
The preceding century wasn't kind either, as it saw the destruction of the Kingdom of Rhovanion.
On the other hand, there were some important victories and achievements as well:
Kingdom of Angmar, destroyed
Kingdom of Eotheod in the North, established
Dragon Scatha, killed
Kingdom of Erebor, established
Galador the Half-Elf, founder of the line of the princes of Dol Amroth, born.
Also the Watchful Peace started somewhat later (2063), giving some breathing room and time to recover to the Free Peoples.
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ Assuming, of course, that Galador really was a half-elf and that Mithrellas is more than just a legend 😛
But yes, Gandalf's visiting Dol Guldur and causing Sauron to leave, thus starting the Watchful Peace, may have saved the Third Age.
@@bristleconepine4120 Legolas did detect there was Elvish blood in Prince Imrahil so that had to come from someone.
I always think that the Witch-king did not mind of being enslaved to Sauron. He could be a power-hungry king as a mortal that seek more power and knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if he was among the Numenorians like the King's Men that worship Melkor as Sauron intended. For the Witch-king, this is a gift from the divine, the true passage unlike the Valars from Valinor that don't offer sanctum. So while he came to service the dark lord. He was happy to served a 'benevolent god' that give him and his brothers knowledge, wisdom, and powers beyond other Men could hoped for. The ring may enslaved him but for the Witch-king, this is a blessing.
I could see him having a kind of love-hate relationship with his existence. It would probably depend a lot on how much he missed the pleasure of having a proper body. Did he long to enjoy a meal or a woman still after 1000's of years as a wraith. All that power, but unable to enjoy the fruits of it. If he didn't have such urges anymore, he probably minds his current state much less.
Given the preponderance of recurring themes and cyclical history in Tolkien’s legendarium, I've often wondered about the Witch King vis a vis Morgoth and Sauron. Who was the Witch King's chief lieutenant? Did he have a clear successor among men who might have survived the end of the third age?
Khamul the Easterling is mentioned as being only second to the WK in power among the Nazgul and has a kind of leadership role in Tolkien's ancillary writing. OTOH he seems rather inept during the hunt for the Ring, for example being hopelessly bamboozled by an elderly Hobbit gardener. So maybe it's not coincidental that, after the WK's destruction, somebody named Gothmog took over at Pelennor Fields rather than Khamul.
I doubt it. Sauron was Morgoth's chief lieutenant but Sauron did not have anyone in an equivalent role until after Morgoth was gone. And I don't think any of them thought about having a successor as they didn't expect to be vanquished.
A lot of what you cover, at least since I subscribed about a year ago, seems to be on the second and third ages, do you plan to do content covering the first age? It's not like there wasn't much going on then.
I don't think people generally realise just how bad the Witch king was.
The wars of Angmar were the most devastating wars in middle earth's history since the war of wrath at the end of the first age, he single handedly depopulated most of Eriador while also utterly fucking up the two biggest kingdoms in the land. He would have been a lot more familiar to the middle men of the third age than Sauron who basically hadn't been seen or heard of in 3 millennia, so he basically would have been a Hitlerian figure in their imagination, far worse than Sauron.
I imagine there would have been a lot of people in western middle earth who only really gave Sauron the time of day because they realised that the Witch king was one of his underlings. There would have been people who were only able to judge Sauron's evil because of the presence of the Witch king.
Hell, I'm of the opinion that if Sauron wanted to, he could have staged a fake war between the forces of Minas Morgul and a coalition made of Haradrim and Rhunites and portrayed himself as the liberator of middle earth and it probably would have worked!!
As an example I would like to bring up the manga and anime series Overlord, in which a Sauronic main character; Ains Ooal Gown pulls this trick with a kingdom he intends to influence by sending one of his underlings, Demiurge (under the secret identity of Yaldabaoth) to stir up discontent among various demi-human tribes and move them to war. This then allows him to come in and "defeat" "Yaldabaoth's" invasion/rebellion and become the saviour of the kingdom.
This succeeded, even though Gown made no effort to hide his evil brand and had previously used exceptionally powerful magic, beyond the bounds of what was believed possible, to slaughter a full army of 80,000 soldiers to a man.
I obtained permission from the High King at Fornost to sleep at work. Life is good.
Damn man youre on a spree lately.. Good job
I just want to ask the three elven rings were meant to preserve the magic of middle-earth that was slowly disappearing thanks to Morgoth's taint, so does that mean the description we get of Rivendell and Lotherien is what all of Middle-Earth looked like at the end of the second age as with Sauron's losing of the One Ring they could finally use the elven rings, so the magic could only be preserved from that point. Does any of tolkiens letters or writings tell us?
Why? Why? Why Sauron couldn't be active for ONE MORE YEAR???
Since DG mentioned how we don't know how or if Gondor tried to resist the taking of Minas Ithil, I'll mention a very intriguing speculation he made about this in an old video about the LOTRO Minas Morgul expansion: _"[The Nazgul] besieged the city for two years before taking it. Which is odd, because Minas Tirith is_ *right there.* _I'm not sure why they didn't help Minas Ithil. Maybe the people of Minas Ithil were dicks and deserved it, who knows."_
@@tiltskillet7085 Where was Gondor when Minas Ithil fell?
Hi Darth!
I'm going to do better than the Witch King in my single lifetime. *I am going to destroy Arnor.*
It surprises me that Sauron wasn’t discovered earlier. Was there a real chance that he could have been discovered earlier in the Third Age? And if so, would that have changed the Third Age?
He could've been discovered earlier in Dol Guldur because the white council was already suspicious about Sauron returning but Saruman prevented that. If he would've been discovered earlier his enemies would've been also alarmed and prepared earlier. But I think it would not have changed much.
This raises a question of mine: why didn't the Witch-King attempt to replace his master [Sauron] as his annihilation of Eriador and the remnants of Arnor just by himself is very impressive and demonstrates his status as a threat to the West and the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth?
Since Sauron's defeat by the Last Alliance during the Second Age, he was already in a vulnerable state, and it required centuries for him to gain back enough strength. He could've easily been killed by the Witch-King if said Witch-King was able to roll a nat 20 on his scheming and tactical prowess. The Witch-King also had access to Dark Magic and might have been able to use it to break himself of his enslavement somehow.
Edit: I was wrong and I have been rightly corrected.
Not at all. Tolkien says in his letters that Witch King and the other wraiths had no way of breaking their bonds from Sauron as he possessed their rings. Also while still weakened, Sauron was still too powerful to be killed by the Witch King as you suggest. In the Hunt for the King Witch King sees that his journey is in peril but he still continues because of his "fear of the wrath of Sauron".
The Witch-king was bound to Sauron and to the one ring. He had no free will. Maybe he hated Sauron for what he did to him. But he had no choice but to follow Sauron's orders because Sauron was still the Lord of Rings. Sauron even took back the nine rings and by that he ensured his power over the Nazgûl.
The Witch King's enslavement to Sauron's will was so complete that he wouldn't have been able to make an attempt to break free. Sauron entrusted the search for the One Ring to the Witch King and the other Ringwraiths because he knew they could not betray him and attempt to seize the Ring.