An added benefit gained from "front loading" is less weight on the rear wheel. It's already loaded more heavily because of where we sit on a bike, and that coupled with more of the load weight in the rear stresses the rear hub and spokes more. Spoke breakage can be a problem in that scenario, not always but the likelyhood increases.
Great minds.... I started doing the same thing. I removed my rear rack because my seat bag would not fit with it, but don't like the drag and weight for daily commuting. So I've been riding with my rear seat bag, half-frame bag, and if grocery shopping or running errands, I use my smaller waterproof front panniers. I leave my front rack on full-time. I like the way it handles with weight to the front, and even when using rear bags, loaded about 60/40 front/rear weight ratios. I don't drive, so almost every day is a utility trip, of sorts. I find the smaller bags also produce less drag than the larger rear bags. Good video. Keep it up!
Apidura - great to see you supporting a UK producer. One of these days you'll have to come over and visit some of the other UK bag manufacturers. Carradice, Alpkit, Camelmouth, Brooks, and Altura are just a few companies that spring to mind. Many are the remnants of the great northern fabric and textiles industry that grew up around Manchester and survived to the present day. You could probably cycle and visit 10 bikepacking bag producers in one day. We are lucky to have the single greatest concentration of bikepacking bag makers in the UK that anywhere else in the world. And I mean within a few miles of one another.
Thank you. I am heading out this weekend on one of our first bike camping trip with the kids and you gave me lots of options and Ideas. I was thinking that I didn’t want the weight on the front of my bike but you had some good points. I ordered a few bags to try out knowing I was sending some back. But they where all back bags. Now I may get a bag for my center bar to though. If you don’t mind I would like to mention your video in my next review? New supporter! Thanks man!
You're channel gets better all the time - and I like your watercolors! Keep up the good work. Maybe one on how to tell which tires are supple - hard to judge in on-line shopping.
Hey Russ, I assume this is the Tubus Tara Lowrider? If so, does the frame construction of the rack fully protect the fork against any damage which might result from the lower pannier "hook-slide-rails" smashing against it? I was using a Pelago Commuter front rack on a straight fork and the gravel panniers constantly smashed of the paint of my fork ... I hope to fix this by getting the Tara lowrider. Glad to get some insides from you! Keep up the great work! Cheers from Berlin!
Good setup. For moderate tours I have a seat bag, frame bag and two small low rider panniers. Handles great and carries enough stuff without getting out of hand. I don't have a handlebar bag, but I keep thinking about one....
I found your channel a couple weeks ago searching for gravel bike reviews . I currently ride a 2010 CAADX 105 but interested in a new gravel bike and want to experience disc brakes on a bike. Making a decision is hard from a price point because I like the Thru Axles and not sure about tubeless tires. I keep looking at the Giant Toughroad SLR GX 1 and The Salsa Journeyman. Enjoy your videos.
I loved this video, as I have that exact Masi Sepeciale Randonneur bike and am looking to get into bikepacking. Thanks for the info! One suggestion is that it would be nice if you listed all the gear (bags, panniers, racks, etc.) that you use, just like you listed the video equipment.
Thank you! That's extremely helpful. It doesn't sound like you're going to run out of things to review, but if you do I'd love to hear what you think about your tarp tent. :)
Love the video, maybe do a video of rear weight bias vs front bias?. Maybe some tips of how to measure weight front vs rear? I find that rear weight bias really affects my climbing.
I pack my bike so heavy it’s like a tank, but I’m also built like a tank so I can brute force quite a bit. I have a rear pannier rack with a detachable bike trunk that can be used as a bear bag. I store my food, cookware and smellies (toothpaste, waste bags, etc.) in the trunk as well as my tool kit “garage” and first aid kit. I store my sleeping system and clothes in the saddle bags. I have a full triangle frame bag that has my electronics, battery, solar panel, and any gadgets I went to bring along, usually a kindle and Nintendo switch. This is also my dump bag where I put any miscellaneous item in that applies to the trip I’m making, if it’s a rainy day I might stuff my poncho in it, or if I stopped off at a gas station for “snacks” I’ll put the item there as a quick stow bag. I have a top tube bag for my phone and earbuds and battery if I have an item that needs to be charged, and whatever snack item I want to munch on. It’s also where I put my go pro if I feel like I don’t need a helmet cam to make cars behave like sane and rational human beings. I have a handlebar bag to store my tent and sleeping pad. For my water I have committed the cardinal sin of having a camel pak that also holds my water filter and my army green canteen and canteen cup attached to it. I recommend this setup to absolutely no one because I am a hard headed idiot that likes to over-prepare for overnight trips like I’m going out for a week, I believe gearing for weight is for people that are too lazy to get stronger, ie. sane and rational humans.
I commute with front panniers at the moment, because I have a child seat at the back, making the rear unusable, but if I don't have a child with me, it's rear panniers every time. I suspect front-loading is a bit of a fashion thing - people who just like being contrary (like using a wide-ratio double chainset rather than a triple, or centre-pull brakes) - the steering is slowed and there is far less space/weight capacity with front panniers. You also have less visibility if travelling over rough terrain. There must be a reason why, after 2 global tours across 6 continents, every serious cycle tourist I met had either rear, or front/rear and not front-loading on their bikes. But hey, you think it looks cool, so do what you like! 👍
Have you ever experience speed wobble (kind of like a resonance wobble) of your front end with too much weight, its not a good feel. I wouldnt suggest adding too much weight up the front, other than the panniers and a superlight ‘office’ as you call it. BTW, i like your descriptions of the different packing zones, ie ‘kitchen’, ‘bedroom’.
I always load my front much more than the rear and I feel it helps to stabilize the front end. I try to keep my speed on descents at around 40 mph. I have done some very long descents losing 4000 or 5000 feet of elevation.
If the bike inherently has speed wobble, loading the front end can certainly exacerbate the problem - it did on one of my bikes with speed wobble. But if the bike does not have speed wobble, especially a low trail bike like the Masi, it shouldn't be a problem. Even with a high trail bike, I much prefer to front load my bike with lowrider panniers for all the reasons Russ mentions.
Great video... I'd be a heavy packed as well... Have you considered doing a recumbent trike touring set up, catrike a good place to begin... Thank you for your videos
Great video! I’ve noticed you’ve gone away from Rando bag/small rack setups. Any reason why you didn’t try that type of setup with the masi instead of the Paloma?
This guides me in the right direction. I love the ideas of packing "rooms". When does the masi video come out. I have a masi cx and am kicking myself I didn't go with the rando bike but the cx was a smoking deal.
I recently discovered a front kickstand that works on a Tubus Lowrider front rack. My Surly Disc Trucker flops over all of the time because of the front wheel. Would you do a review on this ranch and see if it works?
never saw one of these front racks and small panniers. Where do we find this kind of stuff? What´s the name of the rack? Your channel is great, thank you!
Hi Rodrigo, the rack looks like a silver Tubus Tara. Great racks, really simple design but super strong. The panniers are made by Ortlieb. Tubus and Ortlieb are German manufactures, and quality is second too none.
Russ As long as you are putting panniers on the front, what not put them on the back also? It’s a lot more convenient than a saddle bag, and you have more room if you want it. Anyway, that’s my thinking.
Hi! Was wondering if you can help me. Can you please have a look at the ribble adventure 725 front bike fork and please tell me if the front rack of your masi bike will fit in there. Thank you
That selfie stick footage of the bike is tripping me out. The shadow shows the phone at the end but footage shows the end of the selfie stick with no phone and seems to capture footage from the front and back of the phone? Didn't know that was possible
I have two rosewheel tail bags that both rub against thighs, even after I pushed them back with a taillight. Looking at your setup the tail bag is wide too, do you have leg rub problems?
Hey ! Love your channel!! Been watching almost all of the videos. I’m gonna travel in the EuroVelo this summer & hope you can help me with some guide lines .. My plan is to build a pretty similar setup : Apidura 14L seat bag Apidura 4.5L frame bag Apidura 9L handlebars bag & accessory pocket Pair of ortieb gravel panniers on the front! I’ve still haven’t decided how to distribute the weight.. Bike - merida sillex 400 2020 If it’s possible I will be happy to talk with you in messenger :) Love the content! Keep on!!
For reference, I went on a 3 month tour with a fairly similar setup. Here's my Specialzed Awol from when 700c and doubles were still cool: photos.app.goo.gl/beh2GUTKurF23VFz8
You mentioned this system works well for bikes designed for it. What defines this other than low rider mounts? Would you consider the Specialized Diverge Carbon with low rider mounts but NO rear rack mount (WTF Specialized??) “capable” with this set up?
Mounts is part of it, but there is also geometry considerations. The Masi has low trail geometry and doesn’t get wobbly or weird with a front load. Similarly, the Surly Packrat achieves something similar with a steep head angle. A little squirrelly unloaded, but rides “normal” with a front load.
An added benefit gained from "front loading" is less weight on the rear wheel. It's already loaded more heavily because of where we sit on a bike, and that coupled with more of the load weight in the rear stresses the rear hub and spokes more. Spoke breakage can be a problem in that scenario, not always but the likelyhood increases.
Great minds.... I started doing the same thing. I removed my rear rack because my seat bag would not fit with it, but don't like the drag and weight for daily commuting. So I've been riding with my rear seat bag, half-frame bag, and if grocery shopping or running errands, I use my smaller waterproof front panniers. I leave my front rack on full-time. I like the way it handles with weight to the front, and even when using rear bags, loaded about 60/40 front/rear weight ratios. I don't drive, so almost every day is a utility trip, of sorts. I find the smaller bags also produce less drag than the larger rear bags.
Good video. Keep it up!
Apidura - great to see you supporting a UK producer. One of these days you'll have to come over and visit some of the other UK bag manufacturers. Carradice, Alpkit, Camelmouth, Brooks, and Altura are just a few companies that spring to mind. Many are the remnants of the great northern fabric and textiles industry that grew up around Manchester and survived to the present day. You could probably cycle and visit 10 bikepacking bag producers in one day. We are lucky to have the single greatest concentration of bikepacking bag makers in the UK that anywhere else in the world. And I mean within a few miles of one another.
Thank you. I am heading out this weekend on one of our first bike camping trip with the kids and you gave me lots of options and Ideas. I was thinking that I didn’t want the weight on the front of my bike but you had some good points. I ordered a few bags to try out knowing I was sending some back. But they where all back bags. Now I may get a bag for my center bar to though. If you don’t mind I would like to mention your video in my next review?
New supporter! Thanks man!
Super smart mental model to help anyone think about how to pack: "office", "garage", etc. Nice!
I always load my front much more than the rear. It helps to stabilize the bike on long high speed descents.
You're channel gets better all the time - and I like your watercolors! Keep up the good work. Maybe one on how to tell which tires are supple - hard to judge in on-line shopping.
Good idea. Was going to do a few on tires. Maybe the first on tire pressure for gravel.
Hey Russ, I assume this is the Tubus Tara Lowrider? If so, does the frame construction of the rack fully protect the fork against any damage which might result from the lower pannier "hook-slide-rails" smashing against it? I was using a Pelago Commuter front rack on a straight fork and the gravel panniers constantly smashed of the paint of my fork ... I hope to fix this by getting the Tara lowrider. Glad to get some insides from you! Keep up the great work! Cheers from Berlin!
Good setup. For moderate tours I have a seat bag, frame bag and two small low rider panniers. Handles great and carries enough stuff without getting out of hand. I don't have a handlebar bag, but I keep thinking about one....
I found your channel a couple weeks ago searching for gravel bike reviews . I currently ride a 2010 CAADX 105 but interested in a new gravel bike and want to experience disc brakes on a bike. Making a decision is hard from a price point because I like the Thru Axles and not sure about tubeless tires. I keep looking at the Giant Toughroad SLR GX 1 and The Salsa Journeyman. Enjoy your videos.
I loved this video, as I have that exact Masi Sepeciale Randonneur bike and am looking to get into bikepacking. Thanks for the info! One suggestion is that it would be nice if you listed all the gear (bags, panniers, racks, etc.) that you use, just like you listed the video equipment.
Thank you! That's extremely helpful. It doesn't sound like you're going to run out of things to review, but if you do I'd love to hear what you think about your tarp tent. :)
That would be a good one.
Love the video, maybe do a video of rear weight bias vs front bias?. Maybe some tips of how to measure weight front vs rear? I find that rear weight bias really affects my climbing.
I pack my bike so heavy it’s like a tank, but I’m also built like a tank so I can brute force quite a bit. I have a rear pannier rack with a detachable bike trunk that can be used as a bear bag. I store my food, cookware and smellies (toothpaste, waste bags, etc.) in the trunk as well as my tool kit “garage” and first aid kit. I store my sleeping system and clothes in the saddle bags. I have a full triangle frame bag that has my electronics, battery, solar panel, and any gadgets I went to bring along, usually a kindle and Nintendo switch. This is also my dump bag where I put any miscellaneous item in that applies to the trip I’m making, if it’s a rainy day I might stuff my poncho in it, or if I stopped off at a gas station for “snacks” I’ll put the item there as a quick stow bag. I have a top tube bag for my phone and earbuds and battery if I have an item that needs to be charged, and whatever snack item I want to munch on. It’s also where I put my go pro if I feel like I don’t need a helmet cam to make cars behave like sane and rational human beings. I have a handlebar bag to store my tent and sleeping pad. For my water I have committed the cardinal sin of having a camel pak that also holds my water filter and my army green canteen and canteen cup attached to it.
I recommend this setup to absolutely no one because I am a hard headed idiot that likes to over-prepare for overnight trips like I’m going out for a week, I believe gearing for weight is for people that are too lazy to get stronger, ie. sane and rational humans.
Great video! Just bought a masi speciale randonneur and you helped me
I commute with front panniers at the moment, because I have a child seat at the back, making the rear unusable, but if I don't have a child with me, it's rear panniers every time.
I suspect front-loading is a bit of a fashion thing - people who just like being contrary (like using a wide-ratio double chainset rather than a triple, or centre-pull brakes) - the steering is slowed and there is far less space/weight capacity with front panniers. You also have less visibility if travelling over rough terrain.
There must be a reason why, after 2 global tours across 6 continents, every serious cycle tourist I met had either rear, or front/rear and not front-loading on their bikes.
But hey, you think it looks cool, so do what you like! 👍
I've got those Ortlieb gravel packs too, very nice quality and looks the biz....! I use them in the rear as well sometimes.
I'm curious about the model of front rack you use and how the Ortlieb bags fit on the rack. Also, how the rack attaches to the fork.
Russ, it's been 5 years, but do you know what bars you're running? Looks like some nice short reach rando bars w/ flat drops. Thank you.
Have you ever experience speed wobble (kind of like a resonance wobble) of your front end with too much weight, its not a good feel. I wouldnt suggest adding too much weight up the front, other than the panniers and a superlight ‘office’ as you call it. BTW, i like your descriptions of the different packing zones, ie ‘kitchen’, ‘bedroom’.
I always load my front much more than the rear and I feel it helps to stabilize the front end. I try to keep my speed on descents at around 40 mph. I have done some very long descents losing 4000 or 5000 feet of elevation.
If the bike inherently has speed wobble, loading the front end can certainly exacerbate the problem - it did on one of my bikes with speed wobble. But if the bike does not have speed wobble, especially a low trail bike like the Masi, it shouldn't be a problem. Even with a high trail bike, I much prefer to front load my bike with lowrider panniers for all the reasons Russ mentions.
This is almost exactly how I pack my Space Horse. I much prefer having the weight up front. Good tips. Thanks.
What rack do you use on the Space Horse?
Path Less Pedaled Ortlieb Tubus Duo. Works perfect.
Are the front panniers Ortlieb Gravel ? I have these but I can't fit the 2nd hook to my Tubus Duo rack.
Great video... I'd be a heavy packed as well...
Have you considered doing a recumbent trike touring set up, catrike a good place to begin...
Thank you for your videos
Thank you. What about the effect on steering?
Great video! I’ve noticed you’ve gone away from Rando bag/small rack setups. Any reason why you didn’t try that type of setup with the masi instead of the Paloma?
I tried but didn’t have a front rack that worked with the Masi.
I love it! Thank you!!! Kim--in San Diego, CA
This guides me in the right direction. I love the ideas of packing "rooms". When does the masi video come out. I have a masi cx and am kicking myself I didn't go with the rando bike but the cx was a smoking deal.
I recently discovered a front kickstand that works on a Tubus Lowrider front rack. My Surly Disc Trucker flops over all of the time because of the front wheel. Would you do a review on this ranch and see if it works?
never saw one of these front racks and small panniers. Where do we find this kind of stuff? What´s the name of the rack? Your channel is great, thank you!
Hi Rodrigo, the rack looks like a silver Tubus Tara. Great racks, really simple design but super strong. The panniers are made by Ortlieb. Tubus and Ortlieb are German manufactures, and quality is second too none.
Russ
As long as you are putting panniers on the front, what not put them on the back also? It’s a lot more convenient than a saddle bag, and you have more room if you want it. Anyway, that’s my thinking.
Because then you will tend to carry more stuff if you have the capacity.
Hi! Was wondering if you can help me. Can you please have a look at the ribble adventure 725 front bike fork and please tell me if the front rack of your masi bike will fit in there. Thank you
Whats the max litres you'd use in the front?
can you talk about the pros and cons of fenders? do they add a lot more drag?
Hello, thanks for the video. What front rack is that?
Tubus Tara - hope this helps
well since I'm riding specialized awol which is more suitable for front loading, I do that from the very beginning of my bike touring
Thanks for the video. Could I run a bag on one side of this rack for commuting?
I tried that. But not too heavy
That selfie stick footage of the bike is tripping me out. The shadow shows the phone at the end but footage shows the end of the selfie stick with no phone and seems to capture footage from the front and back of the phone? Didn't know that was possible
It's with a 360 degree camera!
I have two rosewheel tail bags that both rub against thighs, even after I pushed them back with a taillight. Looking at your setup the tail bag is wide too, do you have leg rub problems?
The Ortlieb is narrow at the saddle and I don’t get any thigh rub with it.
Low riders wouldn't be ideal for rougher trails say with deep rutts though would they as there could be a risk of the panniers hitting the ground?
For gravel roads they would be fine. For technical trails no.
What size frame do you use with the small Apidura Frame Bag. Do you have any issues with leg/knee rub?
Usually use it on size 50-54 size frames. Also works great on a Medium Cutthroat. No issues with knees.
Hey ! Love your channel!!
Been watching almost all of the videos.
I’m gonna travel in the EuroVelo this summer & hope you can help me with some guide lines ..
My plan is to build a pretty similar setup :
Apidura 14L seat bag
Apidura 4.5L frame bag
Apidura 9L handlebars bag & accessory pocket
Pair of ortieb gravel panniers on the front!
I’ve still haven’t decided how to distribute the weight..
Bike - merida sillex 400 2020
If it’s possible I will be happy to talk with you in messenger :)
Love the content! Keep on!!
AWESOME VID! ❤
Thank you.
Is this kit suitable for a week or longer as opposed to one or two nights out?
Yes. You just have to be minimal about what you bring.
For reference, I went on a 3 month tour with a fairly similar setup. Here's my Specialzed Awol from when 700c and doubles were still cool:
photos.app.goo.gl/beh2GUTKurF23VFz8
How do you like that Masi?
Review coming soon. No spoilers :)
I saw the teaser too - super psyched to see that review!
You mentioned this system works well for bikes designed for it. What defines this other than low rider mounts? Would you consider the Specialized Diverge Carbon with low rider mounts but NO rear rack mount (WTF Specialized??) “capable” with this set up?
Mounts is part of it, but there is also geometry considerations. The Masi has low trail geometry and doesn’t get wobbly or weird with a front load. Similarly, the Surly Packrat achieves something similar with a steep head angle. A little squirrelly unloaded, but rides “normal” with a front load.
Having ridden the Diverge, you could certainly load it with stuff on the front, but the geo is not optimized for it.
so where do you pack your beer?
Whisky is ultralight beer.
more of a whiskey fan, but more importantly: why not both?
Gluten free. Can't have beer.
your fork looks bent
Suppose to be 🤷🏽♂️
Front load bias ....Wth?
I would love to see more advice videos on how to pack and what gear to get.
Will do.
So you tend to over pack? Phew!!! I'm not alone 😉
Stephen Morton not much, just chillin' watching about this bike packing stuff 😁
what size Ortlieb bags are you using in this video?
How many liters is the front pannier per pannier?
Ortlieb claims that they have 25l total, so thats 12,5l on one.