Don't Do MSE for Cosmetics Alone
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- It's a little too messy for that.
JawHacks Official eBook
substack.com/@jawhacks
1-on-1 Chat with Ron
jawhacks.com/chats
Ron's Favorite Mewing Gum
jawhacks.com/products
*Ron receives a commission if you buy through this link. Thanks for the support.
ALL JawHacks Links
linktr.ee/jawhacks - Наука та технологія
Hey Ron, not sure if you remember our conversation a few months ago. Anyway, one crucial aspect of the MSE treatment that could contribute to the balloon-face aesthetic that we talked about, is how you virtually have every cosmetic force working against your lower jaw anyway as part of the treatment. What do I mean? One, you're probably avoiding tough foods and gum anyway just by virtue of having the device in your mouth. It's a pain in the ass to keep it clean and steak, chewy foods that work the masseters are generally a no-go. Then, with the expansion your bite will probable be off for a while anyway, until the bottom teeth get tipped back out. Third, if you're wearing the subsequent Invisalign, your windows of chewing in general are limited by needing to put the aligners back in before too much time passes. So, it's very easy to atrophy the masseters which is probably the worst thing that can happen aesthetically as your midface expands. Luckily, this is obviously fixable with time as you re-introduce chewy and tough foods back into your diet.
My wisdom teeth are starting to erupt though I'm having mse soon but the treatment would obviously be a long process (expanding and braces), do you think I have enough time to save them?
I was thinking after I finished expanding I just buy mastic or xylitol gum to chew everyday for an hour or so at work
These quick breakdowns are great. Not too many chaps have the ability to succinctly explain this in such a simple way.
I appreciate that, and I'm glad you get benefit from them.
Im about 50 turns into my MSE, and my girlfirend and family have all commented its worth it for the asthetics alone, but my lower jaw was MUCH wider than my upper, and i still have an underbite since masking at night has not been an option because it badly excacerbated my sleep apnea and caused TMJ pain. Saving money to purchase The Bow now as a last effort at using the mask. My cheek bones have also grown side to side and not forward, but we all still thought this was an improvement. My family has wider cheek bones naturally so this brought me more in line with the way my siblings look.
MSE has made me a nasal breather even when I'm sick and has vastly improved my speaking and singing. I have much better projection and my lisp is gone. I also sleep decently well now, and while Im not getting the same sleep I could the few times I fell asleep mewing, I get much more consistent decent sleep now.
Got to say I'd recommend MSE to anyone that was in the same boat as me
Also I might as well put this here: I'll purchase anyone's used Bow, I'd rather not pay $250 for one.
Yeah that's a really good point. Not everyone has an ideal bite beforehand, some people have the crossbite. Generally as I understand, you want the upper 5 mm wider than the lower, so that is one of those things where you can measure and evaluate whether or not it is a good idea.
The other case is the more sleep apnea/UARS type situation where both of the arches are severely narrow. I see a lot of people doing the expansion when they're already average or above average in both the top and lower, no crossbite, and then they expect to continue having that Caucasian look. I think the reality is that just isn't how this expansion works.
Thanks for the insightful information. Are you male or female and how old are you because the cheekbones moving is a great benefit but males have dense bone and need cortipuncture especially after puberty.
Im deciding if I need that assist with my mse on my zygomatics. Thanks.
Our experiences are very similar, Logan.
@@niftyskates85 Male, 24 years old, 23 when I started the MSE. Dr Newaz said my maxilla should have split easily, but gave me the option of cortipuncture which I took. The cortipuncture had some complications and was painful and took a couple months to heal. If you have the option of the electric bone saw instead you should take that.
You should become an “orthodontic”. You will forsure have me as a client
Thanks bro, I appreciate that.
@@JawHacks For real though Ron, how come you dont pursue that as a profession?
Thanks for reminding that with MSE function benefit comes first, long before the aesthetical potential outcome.
Indeed.
A very important video that I don't know if you even know how important it is. Thank you, we all needed this video ❤️
Just got expansive braces to help my upper palate. Was starting to regret not looking farther into the mse but this video solidified that I’m not a candidate. Thanks!
Good luck with your treatment.
@@JawHacks thank you!
Well you can always get a lower jaw surgery, it's not the MARPE's fault. The main issue in my view is the parallel split. I've just compared my jaw to some of the wide ancient properly grown jaws and I of course lack a lot more in the posterior section of my jaw therefore I'd say the ideal must be getting a reverse cone shape expansion instead of a parallel one. That would also mitigate the issue of too much of an alar base expansion in comparison to the zygos which throws off the harmony of the face.
I think the forwardness can be achieved through bollard plates or simple TADS which is what Perez Varela in Spain is doing. Not gonna achieved the full cm a lefort can do but much superior to a facemask.
Very interesting points, yes, the location of the force vector of the MARPE is an ongoing question. Thanks for sharing.
Are you the one that made that post on looksmax?
I’d love to get that reverse cone effect, but I really need better nasal breathing and I can’t afford to wait for a more aesthetic MARPE option for the future. Unless we add those TADS that you mention.
@@mehhem4842 No I didn't but I've seen it and it made me think that yeah the parallel split is definitely not the ideal.
Is it possible to to work with Dr Perez Valera abroad?
@@mehhem4842 What’s the thread name? I’d like to see.
Good video, thanks!
I'm currently seeing Dr. Hadi Daia for my MSE treatment. He works out of Michigan but also Atlantic Canada (PEI to be exact). He's wonderful but a busy man lol
your hair is very beatiful I might grow mine out to copy yours. its either that or buzz cut for me
Great point bro thanks
Thanks brada, you're welcome.
I have a baloon face (not by a lot) but want to do MSE for my narrow palate. I was thinking of doing SFOT too to fring forward my lower jaw and expand it too. What do you suggest?
I feel robbed how much I paid for the widely available “MSE + orthodontic dental correction” package especially considering, and most importantly, MSDO was not included nor available; why are we not aiming to treat the ENTIRE jaw? It’s pretty obvious of the benefits. Yeah it’s difficult but it’s also 2023 I think we got this
I got the same thing. I mean, you could have had SFOT/Wilkodontics?
@@GreaterGoodPrevails yeah but that seemed pretty unnatural to me to have bone pumped into my upper and lower arches, is it even real expansion at that point? At least with MSE you spread it apart and your body fills in the rest. MSDO complimented would be ideal 💙
I do also want to mention that, despite the lack of plan for the lower, my nasal breathing has been fantastic post MSE 💚
Preach brother.
Your right my treatment (mse + braces) is 12k in total
Would a double jaw surgery after MSE mitigate the asymmetry and disharmony after left right expansion of the midface?
Great video mate !
Thanks bro.
@@JawHacks just got out of a consult with Dr Pedroche in Madrid for a biobloc treatment, on the advice of Dr Kahn... He showed great results, but 9000+euros and 2-3 year treatment. That's more expensive than an MMA surgery in France...
People don’t get it mewing work hand by hand with chewing. If you have weak jaw muscles you wouldn’t mew hard enough to see results because the jaw muscles act against the tongue.
So by strengthening the jaw you are hard mewing without getting fatigued.
Thanks for sharing.
I plan to get MSE and jaw surgery together for this exact reason.
Rock on brother.
Another great video. So, for the lucky individual (me) who doesn’t suffer from airway issues that he knows of, no migraines, no headaches, no sleep issues really, but whi nevertheless feels he has a somewhat collapsed face and a small jaw with a narrow pallete and long face, what would you recommend? Anything?
A very moderate MSE expansion would be a good start.
Then what would u recommend for aesthetics
Thanks!
MSE expands left and right, but didn’t you also mention that it also has the risk of the front teeth coming back
Good point, that's very true.
What is maxilla split means .Is it breaking.Will MSE cause any harm to mouth
I was born with a genetic balloon face - wide cheekbones and mid-face, but a very narrow lower jaw, and consequently a small mouth as well. It's an unusual question, but might I be a candidate for IMDO or some other form of mandibular expansion alone, without MSE/upper expansion?
It's possible, but if you are going to do the lower jaw surgery anyway might as well get some extra on the upper and then expand the lower a bit more during the surgery.
Is Invisalign for expansion structural or just teeth moving?
isn't it at least better to have a balloon face than being recessed with narrow maxilla? if you get to a low bf % , i don't think the baloon face will be that bad.
My cheekbones are already wide enough but my maxilla is way too narrow and voice is very deep (hard to speak). I really don’t care about improving aesthetics but I also don’t want for it to get worse….
What if I already suffer with a class 3 malocclusion? Where the maxilla is already narrower than the mandible, MSE would enhance facial harmony in this case.
yes
I have had poor oral posture for most of my life, at 13 years old i learned about mewing(now im almost 18), and it completely solved my functional conserenes, but not my aesthetic ones..i do look a little better but im still very unsatisfied with my looks(very flat and narrow face) ...does anyone have any suggestions on what can i do?
Bimax
Get jacked.
3:25 Who is the doctor you are talking about here? I think i have exactly what he believe he should treat with the MSE+MSDO appliance, i have supper narrow upper and lower jaw with posterior crossbite and sleep apnea my tongue is suffering every day every hour every minute because of the lack of space+TMJD ...etc all of that because of my first treatment with extraction which goes so wrong and give me an asymmetrical face with so many other problems. I have been looking for a doctor to treat my case again with the expanding appliance you mentioned which i agree they work very well together, but unfortunately no doctor here won't to listen to me and understand me very well, it's so unfortunate majority of them are arrogant or just old school which doesn't even know what is an expander. Anyway i would appreciate if you can tell me who he is and how can i contact him, it would really help me and would really appreciate your help for life. Thanks for sharing your knowledge mate!
Excusme but I have a question on your mewing video, is it necessary to set correctly while mewing? And if we didn't would we still getting good results of mewing?
Try it both ways and let us know. In my opinion, yes, Mewing with good full body posture is better.
I'm a girl, so I prefer if it's top heavy, makes the jaw look narrower
ease might do less balloon face right?
Dont MSE+ facemask will bring the 3D forward cheekbones?
Possibly, yes.
could i ask a question 🤔?
my orthodontist required me to have both Palatal expanders on upper and lower jaws, it is a good way to prevent a ballon facr or not?
Update?
Questions: Is a deviated septum and scoliosis related to any of this?
Y'ohyea. Small jaws basically shatter the rest of the body, esp the neck.
But would the MSE expand only the upper palate, what about the lower jaw?
Ah ha - you have identified a major problem in this space.
I expanded my palate: 13mm
And mandible 10mm.
If I did MSE, will it make my crooked wisdom teeth grow correctly?
No
Good video. What do you think of the Power Expander used in Spain? (BAME)
It looks to me to be a very beefy MSE. No reason to think it isn't subject to the same aesthetic risks discussed in this video. What do you think?
@@JawHacks I'd prefer it over the traditional MSE/FME as it expands more reverse cone shaped instead of parallel. It also has thicker screws expanding not only the first layer of the maxilla (like the MSE) but also the second layer. This however causes the IPD to increase by a 1:1 ratio. In my experience there are always some trade-offs.
@@Michael-xm3gq Is there any evidence for that? I don't think so. Look at the post Varela made. It advanced 16mm anteriorly and 15.7 posteriorly meaning it advanced LESS at the back (more or less the same though). On the other hand since the appliance is 3D printed it might be possible to create a different force vector which could achieve the reverse cone pattern. If you have any cases of that or if you have some study from Varela discussing it don't hesitate and post them. I have yet to see anything like that though.
@@lukebruce5234 Every case is different as the PE is custom placed according to your cbct-scans.
@@Michael-xm3gq Personally I can't recall seeing any nasomaxillary / mid-face expansion that is primarily posterior. Most posterior I can recall is EASE and it is mostly parallel. What you're referring to sounds more like 3 piece segmental LeFort.
I would also be cautious of the custom MARPE, some may not yield mid-facial expansion but more cone shaped.
Could you do a video on sleep position for people with uars
Yes that's coming up very soon. A very important topic.
Thoughts on Dr Kasey Li and EASE?
Expensive.
Hey ron, Ill be having my mse installed next month though it would expand my maxilla to meet my mandibles width both are still small. So if i ever get to have a second mse treatment with msdo could this terrible for my teeth roots?
All orthodontics are bad for the teeth but MSE is (mostly) bone-borne so much less terrible than your typical tooth borne expander.
@@JawHacks great to know, when I finish mse then I know what I'm saving up for next:)
Hey dude i have narrow palate,crowding of teeth and I don't have very good maxillary growth too. I had just got septorhinoplasty done because when I was small i fell from stairs and broke my nose my family didn't paid attention to this but after sometimes my nose got deviated alot and it looked very bad. Now it's okay after surgery but i wanna ask that i have braces and ortho is saying 4 premolar extractions is needed. But i don't want to remove healthy teeths. I heard about mse, marpe, sarpe and other palate expanders what is the best for my condition. I'm 22 y/o. I m a Lil bit scared please tell me what to do??.
Which state of india you living
@@dhruvshah-bw7nu delhi dawg.
I could go surgery route but that would be absolute last choice. I’d rather not have Ti plates in my face if I don’t have to. Wish someone would’ve taught me to mew when I was very young
Life goes on brother.
@@JawHacks absolutely. It’s all about self love at this point. Thanks man.
Does it make a difference if you use MSE with reverse pull headgear?
Who’s the msdo provider in Canada? I do have sleep apnea
@@thejoyfulartist4317 Dang, that's far from me. Thanks!
If you don’t wear your retainer after MSE could the diastema reappear?
No, probably more likely that that expansion will relapse and you would end up with crowding.
Whenever I take off my invisalign I feel relapse 🥴
@@JawHacks You could relapse???!!! I Never knew that! I will for sure be getting a tongue tie release, but I never knew there was relapse. Yikes!
Hey Ron do you know any good MSE provider that you can recommend?
Where
@@JawHacks more in dallas texas
Ron how are you managing your mandible? And maxilla asymmetry
4 years of slow tooth movement have brought me back into a decent bite. Still have another year to go, at least.
@@JawHacks I always wondered if I had removed MSE sooner (while still not fully fused), held off on Invisalign, and instead started an aggressive chewing regimen (stimulus) to have encouraged my maxilla to settle more/come into balance?
Hey Ron, have you heard whether or not Dr. Conceancig does MSDO? I think a good place to start branching out and looking for more open minded surgeons is amongst those who have experience with IMDO.
I don't know much about Dr. Coceancig but I have been meaning to get him on the channel. We emailed last year but never booked anything.
a fix to the balloon face is to just workout the masseter muscles by chewing tough foods
Get the MSE prepared to do SFOT. Ron has said this before, but I couldnt understand him then. I understand it now. SFOT will maximize your gains, and to me is mandatory. Maybe just for me anyway.
I got sfot on bottom teeth for same reason. The pain was intense...for 2wks...they also cut my upper palate for the marpe but that was nothing compared to sfot . Dr said I had massive bone loss so he had to cut deep? Idk
Oral bone grafts are brutal, I can confirm.
@@robfolks I’m sorry, didn’t mean to leave out that experience. I never knew it was brutal to get SFOT, I am speaking from a maximizing of results perspective. My lower jaw was so recessed I had to stop my turning because the ortho couldn’t correct the teeth. I should have prepared to do SFOT as well, but I didn’t realize it was that painful. The MSE experience alone is daunting at first, but very manageable in the end.
breathing beats beauty imo
who is the other msdo provider? in europe anyone?
A surgeon in Paris named Loncle who works with an orthodontist named Felpetto. I can't confirm either of these but supposedly they do it.
@@JawHacks Thank you, ill look into it
what could we do for the lower third or forward plane
Time machine.
@@JawHacks hahaha fr
@@JawHacks wouldnt double jaw surgery be affective alongside MSE in this case ?
@@violetmoon2552 id take the risk
Who is the person in Canada who does msdo
Correct. Very nice guy but very conservative with expanders.
Then mewing would only expand my upper jaw.
Mewing is more than just pressing the tongue on the roof of the mouth. It includes all natural oral habits and postures including chewing and nasal breathing. But in general, Mewing doesn't grow bone in adults at the same order of magnitude as the appliance being discussed in this video. Not even close.
@@JawHacks I totally agree mewing doesn’t come as close as appliances, but I have been thumb pulling laterally and anteriorly which makes little space for my tongue to rest more comfortably on the palate and act as a retainer + chewing on my molars with rubber jaw exercisers which strangely makes even more space for my tongue to rest comfortably. I have doing it for five months now and definitely my palate is wider but my palate wasn’t small to start with. I am 21 now