Anything I could add pales in comparison to the intelligent comments I'm reading. Just to let you know, I give you a TON of credit for giving this a go and hope like hell you get it figured out :-)
Thanks!! I love doing this kind of thing because, even if I fail in getting it running, I am learning so much in the process! I've always been the kind of person that learns hands-on vs just reading random articles online. So many great ideas have already been given. I'll give it a few days then run through the ideas presented and I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out. Great results happen when great minds come together :)
With that sort of a blow up the gate driver ic's are probably also toast. There will also be resistors in series with the gates and they may be open. There will be zener diodes protecting the gates and they should be changes regardless. You should change all the IGBTs whether they test good or not. Then you need to see if your short is gone and if not test all remaining semiconductors removing them as necessary until you find the short. Also be sure to remove all the blackening from the board and the heatsink as it will be conductive. You may get lucky but it's a lot of work and you still blow it up the first time you turn it on. 20 years experience repairing switched mode power supplies up to 24kW. Gillian :)
I agree the diodes or resistors might also be dead and if the chips are dead its on a new level. Also I wonder if it uses bootstrapping cause then those components might alsp be dead
I have a question that you will probably be able to answer :). Why do IGBTs require gate driver ICs? Why couldn't the CPU/controller drive the gates directly instead of through a driver?
@@LMF5000 Three reasons. 1) Gate capacitance. Large FETs / IGBTs often have gate capacitance measuring close to 10,000pF. This coupled with the tendency for FETs/IGBTs to be paralled for higher load capacity...usually require several amps of drive current in order to cleanly turn them on and off. CPU/MCUs are usually limited to 20mA (0.02A) max output. 2) Drive voltages. FETs/IGBTs are usually specced at 10vDC, max 20-30vDC (depending on the type). They usually are driven at voltages between 12-20vDC simply to ensure that they are fully on (lowest resistance = lowest heat). Conversely, for practical purposes, there are no CPUs/MCUs that function above 5vDC; MCUs used in inverters usually run at 3.3v or 5v. 3) High-side driving. Most FET/IGBT setups in power inverters are the venerable H-bridge; the FETs/IGBTs on the DC positive side require a special "high side" driver that can turn them on/off even as they fly up and down--not to mention that this driver must also provide the desired drive voltage (i.e. +15v) ABOVE the DC supply rail. This simply isn't CPU/MCU territory--they must remain firmly "grounded" to the negative rail!
So basically these high-frequency inverters have three main sections 1. High-frequency inverter that turns the 48VDC into ~15KHz+ 220VAC, then rectifies to turn it into 380VDC. The super high frequency lets you get away with a very small transformer (2x the freq= 2x the power for the same transformer, so a 15khz transformer can carry as much power as one 60hz 200x as big. NOTE: The transformers used have very little iron in them as iron saturates at higher frequencies. ). These were the K100E08N1 (80V-100A) mosfets and that sideways transformer you see there, and also 2 diodes somewhere on that side. MOST of the time this is done with a transformer center tap and a half-bridge, the middle of the transformer is connected straight to the + and the mosfets take turns switching - on the left and right sides. This creates a square AC wave which works super efficiently to boost the voltage but at 15KHz it's not useful whatsoever, thats why we rectify it to ~380VDC and store it in some caps. 2. 380VDC to 220VAC. The part that blew in this case. Since we're working with high voltage, the current is low and so we don't need nearly as many or powerful mosfets. Generally these are IGBT's rated for 600V. This will be a FULL H bridge configuration, so requires at LEAST 4 IGBTs, or a multiple of 4. And generally has some sort of inductor+caps to smooth out the SPWM into a full sine. 3. MPPT,separate circuit which generally consists of big inductors and mosfets to drop the solar inputvoltage and increase current, Depending on the setup it may be used to directly charge the 380V caps for much better efficiency. GENERALLY when these cheapo inverters go kaboom, it's not just the mosfets that fail. This is because their circuits are designed so on the edge that the second the mosfets fail their gates short out and the gate drivers+resistors are so low-power that they blow as well (in the split second that the inverter blows up). So my bet is that the gate drivers + resistors are probably blown. Hopefully the rest of the spwm circuit isnt blown, cause those are probably a bit complicated if they aren't off-the-shelf EGS002 modules. ALSO when working with any switching circuit like this always try to use a current limited power supply, 1A is more than enough to get it running. If there's a short, 1A won't do anything to the mosfets.
Hi Brian, thanks for the very informative reply! I have a simple 500W pure-sine wave inverter. I noticed the 12V input wires enter the PCB at a spot between two large transformers. Strangely, there seem to be 6 MOSFETS bolted to the case of the inverter in that area. Do you have any idea why there might be 6 of them, not a multiple of 4? Near the transformers are also eight discrete diodes (cylindrical plastic bodies). I don't think two of the large bolted components could be diodes right? On the output side there are 4 mosfets, so I'm pretty sure I'm not looking at the wrong side of it lol. I've uploaded an image of the board here if you want to take a look :) - imgur.com/fNA3zEA Oh, and I'm trying to learn how inverters work. One thing that I'm curious of - what part of the inverter does the switch on the front panel actually switch on/off? Since the wires are so thin it's clear that it's not switching the large input current, so how does it completely disable the inverter in the off position?
I've just started getting into this stuff. I've always worked with computer etc, but only ever found out about soldering and board repair recently I'm 21 years of age and I'm struggling to find places to learn Could you direct me towards some documentation? I'd love to get my masters in electrical engineering, but here in South Africa it's just too expensive to study and live at the same time. Gotta choose one😂
VERY LIKELY the MOSFETs on the OTHER heat sink are also damaged. Then there are DRIVER transistors feeding the MOSFETs and they might be damaged as well. You also MUST check BOTH ways with the diode setting on your meter. One way there should be '.4 or .6, and the other direction should read OPEN (OL)' You MUST check diodes in FORWARD and REVERSE polarity (.4 and OL)
I believe the measured "dead short" could be the large caps at the battery side in the inverter. You could use some resistance (4 pieces of 12V light bulb connected in series) to charge up those caps or checking whether there is a real short or not.
@4:50 is a security screw. You need a cheap component tester. They are like < $10 now and no tech should be without. Diodes usually die shorted. If there is enough power, they will blow through the casing. If you make a detailed closeup video of the boards and traces of both sides, I for one would enjoy troubleshooting it from afar. We can all troubleshoot it from our end. Tracing the input to find the cause of the short, is the first step. You meter can't provide the threshold voltage for the IGBTs.
Good effort made! I don't know the kind of multimeter you are using but confirm this: set the meter to buzz on a short circuit as you did, connect the +ve lead to the inverter input battery +ve and the common to the inverter negative input if it buzzes its a real short, open the inverter where you find the 16 transistors connected to the heat sink, some of them if not all have failed, identify them and replace them to solve the problem. sometimes it may not have shorted but it will buzz when you change the meter leads. good luck.
Try to find a schematic and trace the circuit to determine what components were exposed to the mains voltage. I would also check all the caps and resistors that are located near the transistors for short or open conditions. Unfortunately, you soldered all the transistors back in. When you had them off, would've been the best time to check for shorts. Good luck.
2:32 Center bottom there is an 8-pin IC. It looks like there is a white spot on top. Make sure this is not a blow out point on the IC 5:22 The red parts are high voltage capacitors. The one on the far left looks like it "could" be damaged. Make sure there is no damage to the casing As for the FETs, I would have replaced all of them. Don't take any chances with this kind of failure.
To check the transistors you could get a LCR-T7 transistor/IC checker. Also, totally support the idea of putting a current limited supply on the battery input to trace it back. But if you don't have a current limiting supply, also just work back from the battery connectors for components that are across the rails and which could be shorted then pop them out.
The caps and components related to the 48V system will be rated for around the same voltage, caps should be around 63V rated for example. The HV and LV sides will be separate systems and the 48V won't share the 450V big mains caps with the HV side. The only other thing I would check is isolation of the heatsinks and to ground
Hey, I have the same inverter, and also had the same problem. If only I had seen your video before I repaired it. I also had a dead short on the terminals. The culprit was those smaller transistors on the other side of the board. They visually look okay but they’re all shorted out. My inverter is EXACTLY the same but a different brand name.
If you don't have a 48 volts constant current power supply, use a load between the positive of the battery bank and the positive of the inverter. A good load for this test can be heat element, an 120v iron or incandescent lamp 120v 500w or even four 12 volt 55 watts halogen bulbs in serie. Remember that most MOSFET are very sensitive to static energy discharge. Just a little spike in the gate could short permanently. To avoid the you need to be touching ground.
If you have a scope and a signal generator you can build a magnetic probe and trace on the 48V battery connection. Test setup by shorting function generator leads together and move magnetic field probe near test wires. Function generator is on full power (~10Vpp ,20khz sine wave). Typically the output is around 50 ohms so the current is roughly 100mA peak. Magnetic probe is 50turns of magnet wire maybe 1/2 inch diameter. A small solenoid coil without center core would work. Coil connects to oscilloscope input set on 10mV/division. Holding the coil near the shorted function generator should show a sine wave the closer the probe is to the signal and coil core lined up with transmit wire. The coupling is magnetic with this setup so you can trace the shorting current to the offending bad part. With power off (0V on 48V battery connections), hook up the signal generator to the 48V connections and start probing the wire/traces. You are measuring coupled current and not efield with this setup. It also possible to wrap the coil with copper foil and connect to the scope ground to reduce any e field pickup. E field shield. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Kevin
Fun fact, but the "shorting" on the battery side may be a bad reading due to the big capacitors parellel to the battery charging by the multimeter. Try holding the multimeter leads for many seconds on the battery input and see if you get a non-short circuit reading.
When you need to to remove those power devices, I would cut the legs first since there is no need to keep the blown devices intact, and that will also minimize damaging the board especially the multi layers boards. BTW, the Gate driver devices may be also damaged too.
At least you got about $300 worth of individual components, at single quantity prices. So still seems like a good investment for someone like you ;) When checking battery input impedance with an ohmmeter, always reverse the leads and try it in opposite polarity, in case there is residual capacitive charge giving u a false resistance reading. Remember an ohmmeter actually injects voltage from its internal battery into the circuit to measure resistance. The odd screw is a security head. There are bits for that. Keep it up :)
4:55 That screw is a type of security screw. The specially designed tip has a hole in the middle of it where that post goes into the bit. Altho, this is the largest one of those I've seen and especially odd that there'd be one in one of these devices. I would expect to see this on the "outside" of the case to keep someone from going in, not from removing the pcb.
@@SuperVstech Took awhile, but I found it. It's called a Phill Pin. (losspreventionfasteners.ca/) I suppose a Phillips Pin(?). It is described as a "Phillips (cross) recess with a pin in the center". As far as being in a hex headed, I have no idea. I do agree with that. What's the point of security screw to be foiled with a standard socket hex bit. *shrugs*
@@korishan I wasn’t doubting the existence of a security Phillips screw... just the use of one made in a hex headed screw. What point is it making secure the Phillips, but making the head hex?
@@SuperVstech I get that. I was just providing a little more info on it. And I agree, what's the point of a hex head with a security phillips bit. makes not sense.
Here's some info to chew on. First, even though the MOSFETs have been replaced, most likely the driver ICs or driver transistors are toast as well. They should be tested and replaced as needed. To test the MOSFETs, turn you VOM to the diode test (usually on the ohm range) as the diode test has enough voltage on the leads to turn on the Gate of the MOSFETs. Oh, almost forgot, there is usually a small resistor in the gate lead of the MOSFETs. Check those. Usually, but sometimes you're lucky, when the MOSFET let the magic smoke out, they take out those resistors as well.
The five in a row IGBT's are four output PWM H-bridge, and fifth one I believe is charger buck switcher, along with TO220 diode next to it. The four output PWM IGBT''s were blown as result of applying AC input to inverter output. Other four IGBT at other end of heat sink are synchronous rectifiers on output of transformer. These four were likely okay. When output PWM IGBT's are blown, need to check low value series gate chip resistors and four 8 pin IC's, high side/low side driver devices on back of board that drive the PWM IGBT gate drive. They can blow out as result of IGBT's being shorted.
Transformers have at least 2 windings. Primary and secondary. What you have is a coil (inductor) used to filter out noise, or most likely part of a low pass filter or current inrush inhibitor. When it's called L1 or L followed by a number, it's an inductor. T1 or T any number, is a transformer.
9:48: That pad behind the FETs is not only a thermal pad, but also an electrical separator. The metal pad on the back of the FET is also connected to one of the pins (I think the Collector, but not sure). So to keep them from all shorting out, the pad is used. Not all the FETs will be activated at the exact same time, or turn off at the exact same time. They pulse on a different times to help give a sine like wave. Then smoothing capacitors and the inductors (the donut looking thing with thick heavy wire wound around it) take the somewhat jittery wave and make it a nice clean sine wave.
I would have checked the tracks while the MOSFETs where desoldered, It looked to me that some are shorted If the bord such black burn marks you should remove all the burned PCB because burned charred PCB material can be conductive. I don't know how many layers that board has but it can be that some inner layers are shorted, in any case, you should probe the board and the traces when the MOSFETs were out.
usually igbt have a zener diode and resistor connected to the gate for protection from transient voltages , when they blow they usually take them out too , you have yo follow the gate of the igbt back to the zener and resistor likely tiny little surface mount , as for the short on the battery side sounds like there is still a bad igbt , they can also be damaged if you take too long soldering them in , you need to set your soldering iron to a lower temperature and do the soldering within 3 seconds per pin , give them time between pins to cool down as the heat can damage them. great video well done , keep up the good work :P
yes these are High Frequency inverters I have been repairing quiet alot of those , all Mosfets have to be replaced as well as checking the reservoir capacitors, there are also ICs called Gate driver ICs which drive the mosfets those also have to be checked they are 8 pin DIP ICs which drive the H Bridge of the Mosfets, The other thing to check is the IGBT transistors on the other heatsink. there is also a 2pin rectifier near the IGBT transistors to be checked.
The igbt need about 6 to 10 volts to turn them on. When you checked the dc input you have the red connected to negative showing a short. The input probably has a diode across it for protection. Test with the red from the meter to positive and you should see the meter change as it charges up the capacitor inside.
I think the IGBT's switch the AC side voltages... if your dead short is on the DC inputs, then the short is likely somewhere on the DC side of the board. Try isolate the input board from other boards and test again. My guess is it's one or more of those small transistors on the other side of the unit
Appreciate the video - even though you have a dead-short. This is real life and I (for one) appreciate you sharing :) I overloaded a Reliable 3000w by trying to run a 12,000BTU AC - and it also resulted in a dead short on the 48v battery input. Looked at things but, like you, did not see anything I could repair. Will be interested to see if you make any progress on this.
You are asking for advice, however, in your statement that the unit was damaged by feeding grid current into the unit, that made understanding near impossible, as most of these hybrids are designed to feed grid/gen current in to charge battery during non pv periods. Some clarification on that is advised prior to asking for information from us. Does this unit in fact allow grid/gen input? If not, where did the 'electrician' feed such into the unit? Without this info we would be merely guessing. There are triacs in some of these that require actual voltage from the battery and/or grid to activate the circuit. It would be useful to test each terminal to the case to see if it was a dead short or a mere design condition you've encountered.
@@benssolarandbattery Then the most appropriate place to begin is the inverter circuitry. Reverse the effects of current passing into the inverter would produce terrific and catastrophic carnage on the inverter's transformer and associated components. You might bypass that portion of the internal part of the hybrid unit and instead divert to a known good inverter. In essence, retrofit the entire inverter with a new one. 48 to 120 inverters range from the low $100's and up. Locate the input to the existing inverter and use that on the replacement, output to replacement output. Inverters are rather simple devices using a diode to rectify the a-c to direct current and transformer to step up the voltage. Plus of course some peripheral safety components such as over-temp, overload, etc. What are the terminals that are shorted? Battery, input, output, pv? I just went back to review and see the battery terminals are shorted. That points to either the rectifier or the transformer primary (primary would be battery side, secondary would be the a-c side). You would need to determine the means or strategy by which this device produces a-c. Pulse width modulation or pure sine wave. Then dive into that portion of the circuit first. Each uses a separate strategy to perform its function. It's difficult to troubleshoot, remote like this. But hopefully this will provide you with some direction.
Normally in a inverter there will be a two set of mosfets .N-CHANNEL and BJT .. n channel are use to switch low voltage DC and IGBT are there to switch high voltage DC to main AC
In my experience, counterfeit transistors can actually work just fine. Same with other chips, a lot of my DC to DC converters use blatant TI rip offs but work very well.
LOL... We haven't had any issues with them either... W/exception of "magnachip"... I've used hundreds.. We fix anything they bring, if its possible. Most of the time the exact replacements are not available.. We figure the device was dead to begin with and as long as the parts pass testing, where's the problem...? HOWEVER.... We only use Mouser / US Sourced Capacitors... Too many issues with Counterfeits and longevity.
short on battery input could be capacitors low ESR or capacitor short on battery input. MPPT stage with short ( protection diode or mosfet) DC / AC inverter with short on input ( diode or mosfet shorted ) Good idea to limit amps on battery input and look for any component heating up with FLIR cam
I would say the fact that the dead short is there even powered down and it’s easy to see with a meter should make finding it relatively easy. Wouldn’t bother with passives initially a dead short of that magnitude ie 0 ohms is probably either as somebody suggested a physical short on the board or another semiconductor failed. Second samuels suggestion with the thermal check recommend a current limited power supply but would also suggest disconnect the smaller boards and check them all separately it is a bit safer and helps to narrow down quicker. Just go through the semiconductor stuff first I would highly doubt a passive component as they generally don’t handle lots of power and if they do they generally blow open and if this is at mains voltage It’s hard to miss. Basically check all the transistors that look biggish then work your way down oh and from memory that inverter might have a large diode on the 48 volt supply don’t know why that would blow from the other side of the inverter but it’s easy to test.
The comments on this video are mind boggling, with lots of great ideas; I'll say here one of my favorites to find shorts: you feed in, a VERY LOW VOLTAGE, and feel for a component heating up; KEEP increasing the voltage and checking; the hot one is the shorted one ; i have ONLY used this in repairing computer motherboards, but i guess that if you scale it up,it should also work on Inverters?
Loved Your video, The input short is at the primary side(input) , pls check the input side, and try the voltage injection method to dig down to the problem, To Check MOSFET or IGBT (4066) you need to have a voltage gate supply of 5v at least then u will see approx 0 Ohm by C-E to verify the working of the transistor. Appreciated Your video. The inverter was damaged by a back-feeding grid, this is Not a Gird Feed inverter. keep Output of this inverter isolated from input and never mix up.
I believe the battery soft start which looked health physically OK has a dead short. That 19 mosfet there is a dead short. Also the voltage you are using to charge the gate and source across maybe low. Your meter has 9 volts.
I would check the boost state FETs. The battery voltage needs to be boosted high enough to create a 120V sine wave and it looks like it uses that EI core transformer in a push pull configuration next to the H bridge IGBTs. If the input FETs are blown then you would get a short measured across the battery input.
The screw you thought was defective is actually meant to keep it from being removed. The tool to remove it has a hole in the end to accommodate the pin in the center of the screw plate. They are usually a Torx head, Phillips or Allen head ( predominantly Torx) made to keep anyone but a repairman from removing. Normally, they are placed on the outside (microwaves have them) but, I assume it is there due to the capacitors. Did you recheck all of plug-ins you removed?
There are 3 screws that hold down the heat sink. It just seems odd that only one screw was like that. I guess they figure that the other two are unnecessary as even one would deter people. I don't know... And yes, I rechecked all of the connections.
@@LithiumSolar I think you have another transistor that is bad, a bad capacitor, a dead short in the board or something grounding the positive terminal. Check out all of the various connections for incoming and outgoing wiring first and if you don't find anything, then follow the positive lead forward. Test for continuity between points starting from the positive connection where the AC entered that caused the problem.
AC backfeeds will damage all the DC Capacitors in Line to the Batteries input so I will advise you check the Capacitors. Also check the other MOSFET bank on the other sections of MOSFETs... Any AC misfire is likely to damage all DC amplification transistors especially in an H-Bridge Configuration. David Oniya ( Nigeria)
Yeah, that thing made some pretty terrible noises! I just checked my PIP 2424lv-MSD and there is a dead short on the battery input when you put your black lead into pos and red into neg. Check it the other way around. Mine shows .838 miliohms with red to pos and black to neg.
Hello. Can you tell what is that rather small card you removed last before taking out big board out of the casing? My inverter is not charging and i think that card is acting up so i need to look for a replacement. Thanks.
Measure ohms on the Fet Rails you replaced... Use back tracking method of ruling out shorts.... Start at the short and work in.... DON"T GIVE UP.... I have fixed some seriously mangled gear that now works better than the ones that have never blown. Caps can short but also check diodes and look for stray bare wire pieces underneath other components..
Try testing with all boards removed, Desolder components along the shorted circuit (keep track)... Post video of your troubleshooting and We'll get you going...
That soldering wick is containing flux too and therefore it looked dirtier afterwards ... cause it melts away and you can see it in the first solder wick points ... you see the heat "melting something" before the tin kicks into the copper.
The board I was holding at the 1:55 timestamp is the MPPT solar charge controller board. You may not have a charger built in if yours is an inverter-only and not an "all-in-one".
Ah, sorry. The service manual refers to that component part number 16-500271-00G as a "parallel power board" and lists it as "optional". Based on the block diagram, it looks like it's purpose may be to sync the grid power and inverter power so both can be fed to the output simultaneously. I'm not 100% sure though - not an engineer and don't have the inverter anymore unfortunately to trace though.
I have a mppt 2400w 24v planning to put a shelly plus 1 using (12v) on the switch(AC) is that possible so i can turn the the switch(AC) as a wifi/bluetooth?
Hello, 3000 watt solartronics full sinus inverter fault light is on. When the inverter is turned on, a relay tripping sound is heard, then the fault light is on, what do you think could be the problem?
9:55 This is where a toothbrush comes in handy. Dip it into the alcohol and then brush the board. It removes the crud easily. a few seconds later "i suppose you could use a toothbrush" 😄 yup, exactly!
I use quite a few Aliexpress components. They all seem to have worked fine. Sometimes they are counterfeit or out of spec rejects but mostly they seem to be overruns. But I would NEVER take a chance in an inverter or similar with potential fire risks.
Just a trick, to turn on mosfets on that way only works on mosfets or other components that have an gate and not a base. Like someone else said it could also require a higher voltage to turn them on
Aliexpress has fake parts but if you are purchasing for 2-3 USD per pcs then it is Original, I purchased many parts from aliexpress, that works fine, you can use IRGP-4063(IGBT, higher loading capacity but higher losses than MOSFET) instead of or 47n65 (MOSFET-lower loading capacity, low losses), if not getting a sooner replacement, 2: after repairing never inject batteries voltage directly without a current limiter, like bench power supply set on 1 amp to void more damage if a fault exists. Best of Luck ,
I tried feeding 1.5V in to see if they would take any charge and nothing... I might try feeding a few volts in with a bench supply and see if I can find the short by looking with a thermal camera as others have mentioned.
Before installing new transistors, better check it the drain source pad - You'll know if something short earlier. Maybe - some diodes or gate driver short.
Buna seara. Am si eu un inverter easun 5,5 kw wifi ,am adus un destept sa mi-l seteze in paralel .Mi-a ars amindoua inv,,lam desfacut si am gasit la unul 16 mosfet k100E08N1,arsi iar la celalalt 8mosfet arsi .i-am schimbatdar nu se mai aprinde displeiul ce sa fac?Daca puteti sa dati un video cu acest invertor REVO-E-3-5,5KVA.Multumesc frumos!
Sugiero poner en serie con el positivo de los 24 volts una lampara de filamento de alta potencia. Puede ser una de luz alta/baja de carro. Si al conectar la alimentacion, la lampara se enciende y no el inversor, entonces hay seguro un componente en corto. No te des por vencido tan rapido. Debe haber una fuente switching de baja tension para los integrados de control. Es lo primero que debe arrancar al conectar las baterias, puede estar en corto. Te deseo mucha suerte desde Argentina
Try to call or eMail MPP Solar in TAIWAN and you will get pretty good answers and support ... add all the details you had heard from the owner and make a reference to this video. The pre- and after sales are brilliant and you can not throw this manufacturer in the typical chinese pot cause it is not that what you consider to be China cause Taiwan is the island and the american allied known for quality and sustainable products. No, I am not a Taiwan employee, just a buyer of their products and I have benefitted a lot from their pre-sales service when I was not sure what product family I should or could take for my project and they had helped a friend with a 5 year old inverter where something had been blown up after a thunderstorm and a blitz. He got a spare board within 3 instead of 5 days (from taiwan to germany) and his unit was working again. And the technicians are willing to help to repair just the pieces that are dead if you are familiar with soldering. They try to help and not to sell their boards which is quite unusual. So you might give them a try cause that would be the fastest and best solution you can get and report about in the upcoming video how you were able to fix it. Better than reading and judging and following all those comments of pros and amateurs, cause mpp Solar is the developer and manufacturer of these inverters that are sold all over europe under different brands and logos. They know their stuff and I guess you will understand in a second how valueable their support can be once you get in touch with them. Might have saved you 6 months waiting for spare parts and ideas. Just write a short mail with a link to this video and then you should get support cause my friend did it exactly that way with his 5 year old inverter. Might be that they ask for measurements and then he made another update video and send the link to them and found the cause within 3 days and fixed the whole issue in 1 week. Not bad considering the time delay and the distance from Germany to Taiwan ... the german customs need far more time to do their work but this pcb arrived untouched, therefore lightning fast. The damage of the 5 year old inverter was cause by lightning or Blitz and its power peak / impulse. Repair was a board replacement that had cost 80$ ... but it was not a big board. The reason was that the special spare part needed was not available in europe during first lockdown and would have cost 30$ + european shipping alone, so he took the complete board which was the easiest exchange .
Morning Im Lost with an PIP-5048 Inverter There are no Error codes All FET's And Igbt are in order When power from util nothing switches on when powered from battery Inverter switches on When powered from both Inverter indicates utility Voltage 238 V but battery doesnt charge Inverter Indicates Battery Charging But no current or Voltage to Battery When Inverter on and running battery can be switched of and inverter stays on Any ideas on where to look next
was that a fuse to left of two caps @ 12:38. F3 maybe. Wouldn't cause a short but worth checking. Might try to find schematic. Nice replacement though. I though you had it.
Please can you give me a guide lines. I have a similar Inverter.. But all mosfet transistor are ok.. I tested them. But the the inverter did not come on at all. Not display?
Your Mosfet measurements were correct but why didn't you check the gate oscillation volts with the Mosfets open? If you check mosfet driver IC and mosfet driver IC 12 volt input regulator of your inverter and connect mosfet gate voltage Oscillation OK, it would work.
Hi I know its too late but its not my fault because i see this video today .so for just information purpose only, DC power goes to DC side of the inverter , In left side of your inverter where small transistor are I think they are faulty.
The filled screw probably picked up solder during the wave soldering process. Should pop right out with a scribe tool or other sharp pointed, hardened tool.
@@mikepettengill2706 Wave or dip. Lots of ground planes, through hole and SMDs so assembly would have required several steps. To position all of the IGBTs for soldering, they would just bolt them to the heat sink to lock them in place then dip or wave solder them. The screw is not a security screw. There is no purpose for it, and looking closely, the shape is oblong while the solder itself is concave. Security screw center spindles are only slightly larger than the diameter of a large paper clip, and are not irregularly shaped. The solder will melt, the screw won’t , but it’s easier to just pry it out.
In high frequency online ups the AC output neutral is same as battery minus. So i guess due to the incident every component between these are affected (DC fuse, mosfet, rectifier diodes, transformer, capacitors, IGBTs and other components which supports these power components). Might be the reason why it is showing a short at the battery terminals. Not sure if this might add some more help.
I have found a troubleshooting video of similar kind of inverter . ua-cam.com/video/HBKwrB3fhOE/v-deo.html The outer heatsink has the battery side mosfets which switches the battery input. Backside of the PCB multiple SMD ICs are the driver ICs for these mosfets. The inner heatsink has the output MOSFET/IGBTs and Diodes. Back side of the PCB also has the Driver ICs for these set of MOSFETS .
Anything I could add pales in comparison to the intelligent comments I'm reading. Just to let you know, I give you a TON of credit for giving this a go and hope like hell you get it figured out :-)
Thanks!! I love doing this kind of thing because, even if I fail in getting it running, I am learning so much in the process! I've always been the kind of person that learns hands-on vs just reading random articles online. So many great ideas have already been given. I'll give it a few days then run through the ideas presented and I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out. Great results happen when great minds come together :)
Change the ic
See YT - Wajaeboseban AGS MPP Solar 5048 - he had to change more than just the transistors, his units (two of them) had a short caused by a critter!
@@ifeoluwatimothyadeyemi7373 what is an IC please?
@Lithium Solar its battery less...I mean its working with our battery?
With that sort of a blow up the gate driver ic's are probably also toast. There will also be resistors in series with the gates and they may be open. There will be zener diodes protecting the gates and they should be changes regardless. You should change all the IGBTs whether they test good or not. Then you need to see if your short is gone and if not test all remaining semiconductors removing them as necessary until you find the short. Also be sure to remove all the blackening from the board and the heatsink as it will be conductive. You may get lucky but it's a lot of work and you still blow it up the first time you turn it on. 20 years experience repairing switched mode power supplies up to 24kW. Gillian :)
I agree the diodes or resistors might also be dead and if the chips are dead its on a new level. Also I wonder if it uses bootstrapping cause then those components might alsp be dead
I have a question that you will probably be able to answer :). Why do IGBTs require gate driver ICs? Why couldn't the CPU/controller drive the gates directly instead of through a driver?
@@LMF5000 Three reasons.
1) Gate capacitance. Large FETs / IGBTs often have gate capacitance measuring close to 10,000pF. This coupled with the tendency for FETs/IGBTs to be paralled for higher load capacity...usually require several amps of drive current in order to cleanly turn them on and off. CPU/MCUs are usually limited to 20mA (0.02A) max output.
2) Drive voltages. FETs/IGBTs are usually specced at 10vDC, max 20-30vDC (depending on the type). They usually are driven at voltages between 12-20vDC simply to ensure that they are fully on (lowest resistance = lowest heat). Conversely, for practical purposes, there are no CPUs/MCUs that function above 5vDC; MCUs used in inverters usually run at 3.3v or 5v.
3) High-side driving. Most FET/IGBT setups in power inverters are the venerable H-bridge; the FETs/IGBTs on the DC positive side require a special "high side" driver that can turn them on/off even as they fly up and down--not to mention that this driver must also provide the desired drive voltage (i.e. +15v) ABOVE the DC supply rail. This simply isn't CPU/MCU territory--they must remain firmly "grounded" to the negative rail!
You just hit the nail on the head
@@sidlori1592❤
So basically these high-frequency inverters have three main sections
1. High-frequency inverter that turns the 48VDC into ~15KHz+ 220VAC, then rectifies to turn it into 380VDC. The super high frequency lets you get away with a very small transformer (2x the freq= 2x the power for the same transformer, so a 15khz transformer can carry as much power as one 60hz 200x as big. NOTE: The transformers used have very little iron in them as iron saturates at higher frequencies. ). These were the K100E08N1 (80V-100A) mosfets and that sideways transformer you see there, and also 2 diodes somewhere on that side. MOST of the time this is done with a transformer center tap and a half-bridge, the middle of the transformer is connected straight to the + and the mosfets take turns switching - on the left and right sides. This creates a square AC wave which works super efficiently to boost the voltage but at 15KHz it's not useful whatsoever, thats why we rectify it to ~380VDC and store it in some caps.
2. 380VDC to 220VAC. The part that blew in this case. Since we're working with high voltage, the current is low and so we don't need nearly as many or powerful mosfets. Generally these are IGBT's rated for 600V. This will be a FULL H bridge configuration, so requires at LEAST 4 IGBTs, or a multiple of 4. And generally has some sort of inductor+caps to smooth out the SPWM into a full sine.
3. MPPT,separate circuit which generally consists of big inductors and mosfets to drop the solar inputvoltage and increase current, Depending on the setup it may be used to directly charge the 380V caps for much better efficiency.
GENERALLY when these cheapo inverters go kaboom, it's not just the mosfets that fail. This is because their circuits are designed so on the edge that the second the mosfets fail their gates short out and the gate drivers+resistors are so low-power that they blow as well (in the split second that the inverter blows up).
So my bet is that the gate drivers + resistors are probably blown. Hopefully the rest of the spwm circuit isnt blown, cause those are probably a bit complicated if they aren't off-the-shelf EGS002 modules.
ALSO when working with any switching circuit like this always try to use a current limited power supply, 1A is more than enough to get it running. If there's a short, 1A won't do anything to the mosfets.
Hi Brian, thanks for the very informative reply! I have a simple 500W pure-sine wave inverter. I noticed the 12V input wires enter the PCB at a spot between two large transformers. Strangely, there seem to be 6 MOSFETS bolted to the case of the inverter in that area. Do you have any idea why there might be 6 of them, not a multiple of 4? Near the transformers are also eight discrete diodes (cylindrical plastic bodies). I don't think two of the large bolted components could be diodes right?
On the output side there are 4 mosfets, so I'm pretty sure I'm not looking at the wrong side of it lol. I've uploaded an image of the board here if you want to take a look :) - imgur.com/fNA3zEA
Oh, and I'm trying to learn how inverters work. One thing that I'm curious of - what part of the inverter does the switch on the front panel actually switch on/off? Since the wires are so thin it's clear that it's not switching the large input current, so how does it completely disable the inverter in the off position?
Sir Is Deye inverter has better quality than this inverter? Please reply.
I've just started getting into this stuff. I've always worked with computer etc, but only ever found out about soldering and board repair recently
I'm 21 years of age and I'm struggling to find places to learn
Could you direct me towards some documentation?
I'd love to get my masters in electrical engineering, but here in South Africa it's just too expensive to study and live at the same time. Gotta choose one😂
Good call on getting transistors from a reputable store. Very interesting video. I enjoyed it.
VERY LIKELY the MOSFETs on the OTHER heat sink are also damaged.
Then there are DRIVER transistors feeding the MOSFETs and they might be damaged as well.
You also MUST check BOTH ways with the diode setting on your meter.
One way there should be '.4 or .6, and the other direction should read OPEN (OL)'
You MUST check diodes in FORWARD and REVERSE polarity (.4 and OL)
Check MosFETs on the battery side. You will have one or more shortened FETs. It’s better to change all parallel transistors at once.
I believe the measured "dead short" could be the large caps at the battery side in the inverter. You could use some resistance (4 pieces of 12V light bulb connected in series) to charge up those caps or checking whether there is a real short or not.
@4:50 is a security screw.
You need a cheap component tester. They are like < $10 now and no tech should be without.
Diodes usually die shorted. If there is enough power, they will blow through the casing.
If you make a detailed closeup video of the boards and traces of both sides, I for one would enjoy troubleshooting it from afar. We can all troubleshoot it from our end.
Tracing the input to find the cause of the short, is the first step. You meter can't provide the threshold voltage for the IGBTs.
8:05 Those IGBTs have a turn on voltage of 4 volts which is probably higher than what your meter produces
Good to know. Didn't even think to check that.
@@LithiumSolar And you are poking it between drain and gate, the source and gate should be used.
2:27 - one wire (2 ends) is an inductor. 2 wires or more (4 ends or more) is a transfromer
It's an indicator then :-) And that completely makes sense, I should have know that lol... Thanks!
The guy who this was is a NICE guy. Glad to see you guys worked out a deal. God Bless.
Good effort made! I don't know the kind of multimeter you are using but confirm this: set the meter to buzz on a short circuit as you did, connect the +ve lead to the inverter input battery +ve and the common to the inverter negative input if it buzzes its a real short, open the inverter where you find the 16 transistors connected to the heat sink, some of them if not all have failed, identify them and replace them to solve the problem. sometimes it may not have shorted but it will buzz when you change the meter leads. good luck.
Try to find a schematic and trace the circuit to determine what components were exposed to the mains voltage. I would also check all the caps and resistors that are located near the transistors for short or open conditions. Unfortunately, you soldered all the transistors back in. When you had them off, would've been the best time to check for shorts. Good luck.
2:32 Center bottom there is an 8-pin IC. It looks like there is a white spot on top. Make sure this is not a blow out point on the IC
5:22 The red parts are high voltage capacitors. The one on the far left looks like it "could" be damaged. Make sure there is no damage to the casing
As for the FETs, I would have replaced all of them. Don't take any chances with this kind of failure.
To check the transistors you could get a LCR-T7 transistor/IC checker.
Also, totally support the idea of putting a current limited supply on the battery input to trace it back. But if you don't have a current limiting supply, also just work back from the battery connectors for components that are across the rails and which could be shorted then pop them out.
The caps and components related to the 48V system will be rated for around the same voltage, caps should be around 63V rated for example. The HV and LV sides will be separate systems and the 48V won't share the 450V big mains caps with the HV side. The only other thing I would check is isolation of the heatsinks and to ground
Hey, I have the same inverter, and also had the same problem. If only I had seen your video before I repaired it.
I also had a dead short on the terminals. The culprit was those smaller transistors on the other side of the board. They visually look okay but they’re all shorted out.
My inverter is EXACTLY the same but a different brand name.
If you don't have a 48 volts constant current power supply, use a load between the positive of the battery bank and the positive of the inverter. A good load for this test can be heat element, an 120v iron or incandescent lamp 120v 500w or even four 12 volt 55 watts halogen bulbs in serie.
Remember that most MOSFET are very sensitive to static energy discharge. Just a little spike in the gate could short permanently. To avoid the you need to be touching ground.
If you have a scope and a signal generator you can build a magnetic probe and trace on the 48V battery connection. Test setup by shorting function generator leads together and move magnetic field probe near test wires. Function generator is on full power (~10Vpp ,20khz sine wave). Typically the output is around 50 ohms so the current is roughly 100mA peak. Magnetic probe is 50turns of magnet wire maybe 1/2 inch diameter. A small solenoid coil without center core would work. Coil connects to oscilloscope input set on 10mV/division. Holding the coil near the shorted function generator should show a sine wave the closer the probe is to the signal and coil core lined up with transmit wire. The coupling is magnetic with this setup so you can trace the shorting current to the offending bad part.
With power off (0V on 48V battery connections), hook up the signal generator to the 48V connections and start probing the wire/traces. You are measuring coupled current and not efield with this setup. It also possible to wrap the coil with copper foil and connect to the scope ground to reduce any e field pickup. E field shield. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Kevin
Fun fact, but the "shorting" on the battery side may be a bad reading due to the big capacitors parellel to the battery charging by the multimeter. Try holding the multimeter leads for many seconds on the battery input and see if you get a non-short circuit reading.
I just wanted to say same.
When you need to to remove those power devices, I would cut the legs first since there is no need to keep the blown devices intact, and that will also minimize damaging the board especially the multi layers boards. BTW, the Gate driver devices may be also damaged too.
At least you got about $300 worth of individual components, at single quantity prices. So still seems like a good investment for someone like you ;)
When checking battery input impedance with an ohmmeter, always reverse the leads and try it in opposite polarity, in case there is residual capacitive charge giving u a false resistance reading. Remember an ohmmeter actually injects voltage from its internal battery into the circuit to measure resistance.
The odd screw is a security head. There are bits for that.
Keep it up :)
4:55 That screw is a type of security screw. The specially designed tip has a hole in the middle of it where that post goes into the bit. Altho, this is the largest one of those I've seen and especially odd that there'd be one in one of these devices. I would expect to see this on the "outside" of the case to keep someone from going in, not from removing the pcb.
Odd that they would design and implement a Phillips security screw in a hex headed screw... only use one on the three screw heat sink...
@@SuperVstech Took awhile, but I found it. It's called a Phill Pin. (losspreventionfasteners.ca/) I suppose a Phillips Pin(?). It is described as a "Phillips (cross) recess with a pin in the center".
As far as being in a hex headed, I have no idea. I do agree with that. What's the point of security screw to be foiled with a standard socket hex bit. *shrugs*
@@korishan I wasn’t doubting the existence of a security Phillips screw... just the use of one made in a hex headed screw.
What point is it making secure the Phillips, but making the head hex?
@@SuperVstech I get that. I was just providing a little more info on it. And I agree, what's the point of a hex head with a security phillips bit. makes not sense.
Here's some info to chew on. First, even though the MOSFETs have been replaced, most likely the driver ICs or driver transistors are toast as well. They should be tested and replaced as needed. To test the MOSFETs, turn you VOM to the diode test (usually on the ohm range) as the diode test has enough voltage on the leads to turn on the Gate of the MOSFETs. Oh, almost forgot, there is usually a small resistor in the gate lead of the MOSFETs. Check those. Usually, but sometimes you're lucky, when the MOSFET let the magic smoke out, they take out those resistors as well.
The five in a row IGBT's are four output PWM H-bridge, and fifth one I believe is charger buck switcher, along with TO220 diode next to it.
The four output PWM IGBT''s were blown as result of applying AC input to inverter output. Other four IGBT at other end of heat sink are synchronous rectifiers on output of transformer. These four were likely okay.
When output PWM IGBT's are blown, need to check low value series gate chip resistors and four 8 pin IC's, high side/low side driver devices on back of board that drive the PWM IGBT gate drive. They can blow out as result of IGBT's being shorted.
Transformers have at least 2 windings. Primary and secondary.
What you have is a coil (inductor) used to filter out noise, or most likely part of a low pass filter or current inrush inhibitor.
When it's called L1 or L followed by a number, it's an inductor. T1 or T any number, is a transformer.
9:48: That pad behind the FETs is not only a thermal pad, but also an electrical separator. The metal pad on the back of the FET is also connected to one of the pins (I think the Collector, but not sure). So to keep them from all shorting out, the pad is used.
Not all the FETs will be activated at the exact same time, or turn off at the exact same time. They pulse on a different times to help give a sine like wave. Then smoothing capacitors and the inductors (the donut looking thing with thick heavy wire wound around it) take the somewhat jittery wave and make it a nice clean sine wave.
I would have checked the tracks while the MOSFETs where desoldered, It looked to me that some are shorted
If the bord such black burn marks you should remove all the burned PCB because burned charred PCB material can be conductive.
I don't know how many layers that board has but it can be that some inner layers are shorted, in any case, you should probe the board and the traces when the MOSFETs were out.
*thank you*
very useful, i suspected that, now i think i KNOW it.
start by taking one board out check for short move to next and so on
usually igbt have a zener diode and resistor connected to the gate for protection from transient voltages , when they blow they usually take them out too , you have yo follow the gate of the igbt back to the zener and resistor likely tiny little surface mount , as for the short on the battery side sounds like there is still a bad igbt , they can also be damaged if you take too long soldering them in , you need to set your soldering iron to a lower temperature and do the soldering within 3 seconds per pin , give them time between pins to cool down as the heat can damage them. great video well done , keep up the good work :P
5:58 the probes were backwards. you actually tested the internal parallel free-wheel diode that you can notice in the datasheet.
yes these are High Frequency inverters I have been repairing quiet alot of those , all Mosfets have to be replaced as well as checking the reservoir capacitors, there are also ICs called Gate driver ICs which drive the mosfets those also have to be checked they are 8 pin DIP ICs which drive the H Bridge of the Mosfets,
The other thing to check is the IGBT transistors on the other heatsink. there is also a 2pin rectifier near the IGBT transistors to be checked.
The igbt need about 6 to 10 volts to turn them on. When you checked the dc input you have the red connected to negative showing a short. The input probably has a diode across it for protection. Test with the red from the meter to positive and you should see the meter change as it charges up the capacitor inside.
Great video. Looking forward to learning with you on this one
I think the IGBT's switch the AC side voltages... if your dead short is on the DC inputs, then the short is likely somewhere on the DC side of the board. Try isolate the input board from other boards and test again. My guess is it's one or more of those small transistors on the other side of the unit
Appreciate the video - even though you have a dead-short. This is real life and I (for one) appreciate you sharing :) I overloaded a Reliable 3000w by trying to run a 12,000BTU AC - and it also resulted in a dead short on the 48v battery input. Looked at things but, like you, did not see anything I could repair. Will be interested to see if you make any progress on this.
You are asking for advice, however, in your statement that the unit was damaged by feeding grid current into the unit, that made understanding near impossible, as most of these hybrids are designed to feed grid/gen current in to charge battery during non pv periods. Some clarification on that is advised prior to asking for information from us. Does this unit in fact allow grid/gen input? If not, where did the 'electrician' feed such into the unit? Without this info we would be merely guessing. There are triacs in some of these that require actual voltage from the battery and/or grid to activate the circuit. It would be useful to test each terminal to the case to see if it was a dead short or a mere design condition you've encountered.
The 'electrician' accidentally fed grid power into the load side. 🤔
@@benssolarandbattery Then the most appropriate place to begin is the inverter circuitry. Reverse the effects of current passing into the inverter would produce terrific and catastrophic carnage on the inverter's transformer and associated components. You might bypass that portion of the internal part of the hybrid unit and instead divert to a known good inverter. In essence, retrofit the entire inverter with a new one. 48 to 120 inverters range from the low $100's and up. Locate the input to the existing inverter and use that on the replacement, output to replacement output. Inverters are rather simple devices using a diode to rectify the a-c to direct current and transformer to step up the voltage. Plus of course some peripheral safety components such as over-temp, overload, etc.
What are the terminals that are shorted? Battery, input, output, pv?
I just went back to review and see the battery terminals are shorted. That points to either the rectifier or the transformer primary (primary would be battery side, secondary would be the a-c side). You would need to determine the means or strategy by which this device produces a-c. Pulse width modulation or pure sine wave. Then dive into that portion of the circuit first. Each uses a separate strategy to perform its function. It's difficult to troubleshoot, remote like this. But hopefully this will provide you with some direction.
Normally in a inverter there will be a two set of mosfets .N-CHANNEL and BJT .. n channel are use to switch low voltage DC and IGBT are there to switch high voltage DC to main AC
Scorched rosin flux is hygroscopic (absorbs moisture from the air) and can cause an intermittent high impedance short at a transistor gate.
Circuit works on dry days and fails on humid days. (learned from experience)
Acetone (used in fingernail polish remover) works better and faster than alcohol to remove flux residue.
Use pure acetone (from a paint store) as fingernail polish remover usually has lanolin or other additives.
The old Fluke 8050A multimeter could measure very low resistances and that allowed tracing the location of a short.
If you find a currently available multimeter with similar capability, please let me know.
A short in a PROM chip was found by following the PCB circuit to the point of lowest resistance.
The chip enable was internally shorted to ground and the chip still worked when removed and was copied to a good replacement part.
If the short resistance increases when you remove a part of the unit, it is likely that the removed part contains at least a part of the short.
This makes life easier when looking for multiple shorts as caused by a massive failure.
Hope this helps.
In my experience, counterfeit transistors can actually work just fine. Same with other chips, a lot of my DC to DC converters use blatant TI rip offs but work very well.
LOL... We haven't had any issues with them either... W/exception of "magnachip"... I've used hundreds.. We fix anything they bring, if its possible. Most of the time the exact replacements are not available.. We figure the device was dead to begin with and as long as the parts pass testing, where's the problem...? HOWEVER.... We only use Mouser / US Sourced Capacitors... Too many issues with Counterfeits and longevity.
short on battery input could be capacitors low ESR or capacitor short on battery input.
MPPT stage with short ( protection diode or mosfet)
DC / AC inverter with short on input ( diode or mosfet shorted )
Good idea to limit amps on battery input and look for any component heating up with FLIR cam
Hi you can't open the igbt transistor in this way. but you can test the mosft in this way by clicking the gate of the mosft it will operate
I would say the fact that the dead short is there even powered down and it’s easy to see with a meter should make finding it relatively easy.
Wouldn’t bother with passives initially a dead short of that magnitude ie 0 ohms is probably either as somebody suggested a physical short on the board or another semiconductor failed.
Second samuels suggestion with the thermal check recommend a current limited power supply but would also suggest disconnect the smaller boards and check them all separately it is a bit safer and helps to narrow down quicker.
Just go through the semiconductor stuff first I would highly doubt a passive component as they generally don’t handle lots of power and if they do they generally blow open and if this is at mains voltage It’s hard to miss.
Basically check all the transistors that look biggish then work your way down oh and from memory that inverter might have a large diode on the 48 volt supply don’t know why that would blow from the other side of the inverter but it’s easy to test.
The comments on this video are mind boggling, with lots of great ideas;
I'll say here one of my favorites to find shorts: you feed in, a VERY LOW VOLTAGE, and feel for a component heating up; KEEP increasing the voltage and checking; the hot one is the shorted one ;
i have ONLY used this in repairing computer motherboards, but i guess that if you scale it up,it should also work on Inverters?
Loved Your video, The input short is at the primary side(input) , pls check the input side, and try the voltage injection method to dig down to the problem,
To Check MOSFET or IGBT (4066) you need to have a voltage gate supply of 5v at least then u will see approx 0 Ohm by C-E to verify the working of the transistor.
Appreciated Your video.
The inverter was damaged by a back-feeding grid, this is Not a Gird Feed inverter. keep Output of this inverter isolated from input and never mix up.
I believe the battery soft start which looked health physically OK has a dead short. That 19 mosfet there is a dead short. Also the voltage you are using to charge the gate and source across maybe low. Your meter has 9 volts.
I would check the boost state FETs. The battery voltage needs to be boosted high enough to create a 120V sine wave and it looks like it uses that EI core transformer in a push pull configuration next to the H bridge IGBTs. If the input FETs are blown then you would get a short measured across the battery input.
The screw you thought was defective is actually meant to keep it from being removed. The tool to remove it has a hole in the end to accommodate the pin in the center of the screw plate. They are usually a Torx head, Phillips or Allen head ( predominantly Torx) made to keep anyone but a repairman from removing. Normally, they are placed on the outside (microwaves have them) but, I assume it is there due to the capacitors.
Did you recheck all of plug-ins you removed?
There are 3 screws that hold down the heat sink. It just seems odd that only one screw was like that. I guess they figure that the other two are unnecessary as even one would deter people. I don't know... And yes, I rechecked all of the connections.
@@LithiumSolar I think you have another transistor that is bad, a bad capacitor, a dead short in the board or something grounding the positive terminal. Check out all of the various connections for incoming and outgoing wiring first and if you don't find anything, then follow the positive lead forward. Test for continuity between points starting from the positive connection where the AC entered that caused the problem.
AC backfeeds will damage all the DC Capacitors in Line to the Batteries input so I will advise you check the Capacitors. Also check the other MOSFET bank on the other sections of MOSFETs... Any AC misfire is likely to damage all DC amplification transistors especially in an H-Bridge Configuration.
David Oniya ( Nigeria)
Yeah, that thing made some pretty terrible noises!
I just checked my PIP 2424lv-MSD and there is a dead short on the battery input when you put your black lead into pos and red into neg. Check it the other way around. Mine shows .838 miliohms with red to pos and black to neg.
Likely reverse polarity protection. Like Ben said swap your multimeter leads around and retest.
@5:56 we love those Ali price but man it is crappy when it goes wrong... Thank you sir, good luck!
I love disassembly videos. I hope you managed to get it up and running.
What is inverter soft start failed and what precautions should be taken to avoid this circumstances?
Hello. Can you tell what is that rather small card you removed last before taking out big board out of the casing? My inverter is not charging and i think that card is acting up so i need to look for a replacement. Thanks.
Thanks for the info. Can you tell me the part no. For the Mosfits for both sides thanks ac and dc
Hi. Unfortunately I no longer have the inverter or any parts from it.
so this solar inverter start works properly after reflow bad transistors?
Measure ohms on the Fet Rails you replaced... Use back tracking method of ruling out shorts.... Start at the short and work in.... DON"T GIVE UP.... I have fixed some seriously mangled gear that now works better than the ones that have never blown. Caps can short but also check diodes and look for stray bare wire pieces underneath other components..
Try testing with all boards removed, Desolder components along the shorted circuit (keep track)... Post video of your troubleshooting and We'll get you going...
That soldering wick is containing flux too and therefore it looked dirtier afterwards ... cause it melts away and you can see it in the first solder wick points ... you see the heat "melting something" before the tin kicks into the copper.
Hello what kind of circuit board is that at minute 2 ? we have 2 inverters, one with this board and one without this board. thanks for an answer.
The board I was holding at the 1:55 timestamp is the MPPT solar charge controller board. You may not have a charger built in if yours is an inverter-only and not an "all-in-one".
thanks for the reply, i mean the small board at min 2.07.
Ah, sorry. The service manual refers to that component part number 16-500271-00G as a "parallel power board" and lists it as "optional". Based on the block diagram, it looks like it's purpose may be to sync the grid power and inverter power so both can be fed to the output simultaneously. I'm not 100% sure though - not an engineer and don't have the inverter anymore unfortunately to trace though.
I have a mppt 2400w 24v planning to put a shelly plus 1 using (12v) on the switch(AC) is that possible so i can turn the the switch(AC) as a wifi/bluetooth?
Hello, 3000 watt solartronics full sinus inverter fault light is on. When the inverter is turned on, a relay tripping sound is heard, then the fault light is on, what do you think could be the problem?
9:55 This is where a toothbrush comes in handy. Dip it into the alcohol and then brush the board. It removes the crud easily.
a few seconds later "i suppose you could use a toothbrush" 😄 yup, exactly!
Acid brushes work like a champ!
Did you check if the board was still a dead short before replacing the FETs? It could be a transient supressor.
Did u try to charge the start capacitors before power on? And did you check all the fuses?
When I asked if these could be AC coupled they said there would be catastrophic failure. I guess she was right.
I use quite a few Aliexpress components. They all seem to have worked fine. Sometimes they are counterfeit or out of spec rejects but mostly they seem to be overruns. But I would NEVER take a chance in an inverter or similar with potential fire risks.
Yeah there are a LOT of fake transistors on Aliexpress. It's pretty bad...
Just a trick, to turn on mosfets on that way only works on mosfets or other components that have an gate and not a base. Like someone else said it could also require a higher voltage to turn them on
9v battery does the trick
Aliexpress has fake parts but if you are purchasing for 2-3 USD per pcs then it is Original, I purchased many parts from aliexpress, that works fine, you can use IRGP-4063(IGBT, higher loading capacity but higher losses than MOSFET) instead of or 47n65 (MOSFET-lower loading capacity, low losses), if not getting a sooner replacement,
2: after repairing never inject batteries voltage directly without a current limiter, like bench power supply set on 1 amp to void more damage if a fault exists.
Best of Luck ,
There should be a protection diode across the positive and negative for reverse polarity protection.
There are quite big capacitors that may show as shot circuit in meter
I tried feeding 1.5V in to see if they would take any charge and nothing... I might try feeding a few volts in with a bench supply and see if I can find the short by looking with a thermal camera as others have mentioned.
How do I adjust the factory settings for such an inverter?
The mosfet 3MNB0120-3 is damaged in my inverter, what should I replace it with?
If you inject a few volts only onto the shorted pins you may see a heat signature with a thermal camera showing where the short is.
the drivers for the gates usually blow when the fet does....fun job
You want around 100v rated caps on the dc charge side , the factory 63v is crap they go to 50v when charging so expect reduced life if not replaced .
Great video dude, great responses dudes....
Am getting e53 after replacing the igbts what could be the fault
I'm not sure, sorry. I was never able to get mine working either unfortunately.
Before installing new transistors, better check it the drain source pad - You'll know if something short earlier. Maybe - some diodes or gate driver short.
Buna seara. Am si eu un inverter easun 5,5 kw wifi ,am adus un destept sa mi-l seteze in paralel .Mi-a ars amindoua inv,,lam desfacut si am gasit la unul 16 mosfet k100E08N1,arsi iar la celalalt 8mosfet arsi .i-am schimbatdar nu se mai aprinde displeiul ce sa fac?Daca puteti sa dati un video cu acest invertor REVO-E-3-5,5KVA.Multumesc frumos!
hi, check if the blue transistors are shorted or not (near capacitos) 12:40/13:40
Sugiero poner en serie con el positivo de los 24 volts una lampara de filamento de alta potencia. Puede ser una de luz alta/baja de carro. Si al conectar la alimentacion, la lampara se enciende y no el inversor, entonces hay seguro un componente en corto. No te des por vencido tan rapido. Debe haber una fuente switching de baja tension para los integrados de control. Es lo primero que debe arrancar al conectar las baterias, puede estar en corto. Te deseo mucha suerte desde Argentina
Try to call or eMail MPP Solar in TAIWAN and you will get pretty good answers and support ... add all the details you had heard from the owner and make a reference to this video.
The pre- and after sales are brilliant and you can not throw this manufacturer in the typical chinese pot cause
it is not that what you consider to be China cause Taiwan is the island and the american allied known for quality and sustainable products.
No, I am not a Taiwan employee, just a buyer of their products and I have benefitted a lot from their pre-sales service when I was not sure what product family I should or could take for my project and they had helped a friend with a 5 year old inverter where something had been blown up after a thunderstorm and a blitz. He got a spare board within 3 instead of 5 days (from taiwan to germany) and his unit was working again.
And the technicians are willing to help to repair just the pieces that are dead if you are familiar with soldering.
They try to help and not to sell their boards which is quite unusual.
So you might give them a try cause that would be the fastest and best solution you can get and report about in the upcoming video how you were able to fix it.
Better than reading and judging and following all those comments of pros and amateurs, cause mpp Solar is the developer and manufacturer of these inverters that are sold all over europe under different brands and logos.
They know their stuff and I guess you will understand in a second how valueable their support can be once you get in touch with them.
Might have saved you 6 months waiting for spare parts and ideas.
Just write a short mail with a link to this video and then you should get support cause my friend did it exactly that way with his 5 year old inverter. Might be that they ask for measurements and then he made another update video and send the link to them and found the cause within 3 days and fixed the whole issue in 1 week. Not bad considering the time delay and the distance from Germany to Taiwan ... the german customs need far more time to do their work but this pcb arrived untouched, therefore lightning fast. The damage of the 5 year old inverter was cause by lightning or Blitz and its power peak / impulse. Repair was a board replacement that had cost 80$ ... but it was not a big board.
The reason was that the special spare part needed was not available in europe during first lockdown and would have cost 30$ + european shipping alone, so he took the complete board which was the easiest exchange .
Morning
Im Lost with an PIP-5048 Inverter
There are no Error codes All FET's And Igbt are in order
When power from util nothing switches on
when powered from battery Inverter switches on
When powered from both Inverter indicates utility Voltage 238 V but battery doesnt charge
Inverter Indicates Battery Charging But no current or Voltage to Battery
When Inverter on and running battery can be switched of and inverter stays on
Any ideas on where to look next
Hı , what is the big transformer in the middle for? And this inverter 2 MPPT or 1 Mppt
8:18 Negative probe should be on Source, not Drain electrode to positivly charge Gate
was that a fuse to left of two caps @ 12:38. F3 maybe. Wouldn't cause a short but worth checking. Might try to find schematic. Nice replacement though. I though you had it.
Please can you give me a guide lines.
I have a similar Inverter..
But all mosfet transistor are ok..
I tested them.
But the the inverter did not come on at all.
Not display?
There was a small board on my inverter that needed to be changed as well.
I believe the board is the pwm board. It is possibly not switching properly.
For me I have a problem.my display went off . what can I do make it display again please help.
How did it go? There were never a update on this one if I got it right..
Unfortunately, I was unable to repair it and gave up.
Your Mosfet measurements were correct but why didn't you check the gate oscillation volts with the Mosfets open? If you check mosfet driver IC and mosfet driver IC 12 volt input regulator of your inverter and connect mosfet gate voltage Oscillation OK, it would work.
Hi, Thank you for your video, can you help me. I have a 5.5 kw 48 volt hybrid inverter my there is fault 59 after its pass 03..
Did you test them other transistors that looked fine
No, I did not test the line of small transistors as I figured that was part of the MPPT charger, not the inverting circuit.
@@LithiumSolar the small transistors are the DC input side and are more than likely your problem
I Think the small transistor is a resistor or a diode. Two legs.
Them transistors are for the dc side basically a big dc switch
Ok
please what causes the inverter dameged
Hi I know its too late but its not my fault because i see this video today .so for just information purpose only, DC power goes to DC side of the inverter , In left side of your inverter where small transistor are I think they are faulty.
My Inverter is reading the volts from my panels but not the amps or watts what was actually wrong with the one in the video before working on it.
The filled screw probably picked up solder during the wave soldering process. Should pop right out with a scribe tool or other sharp pointed, hardened tool.
do they do wave soldering as part of an assembly process?
@@mikepettengill2706 Wave or dip. Lots of ground planes, through hole and SMDs so assembly would have required several steps. To position all of the IGBTs for soldering, they would just bolt them to the heat sink to lock them in place then dip or wave solder them. The screw is not a security screw. There is no purpose for it, and looking closely, the shape is oblong while the solder itself is concave. Security screw center spindles are only slightly larger than the diameter of a large paper clip, and are not irregularly shaped. The solder will melt, the screw won’t , but it’s easier to just pry it out.
Thank you sir,,you showed a video...good idea in troubleshooting
In high frequency online ups the AC output neutral is same as battery minus.
So i guess due to the incident every component between these are affected (DC fuse, mosfet, rectifier diodes, transformer, capacitors, IGBTs and other components which supports these power components). Might be the reason why it is showing a short at the battery terminals. Not sure if this might add some more help.
I have found a troubleshooting video of similar kind of inverter .
ua-cam.com/video/HBKwrB3fhOE/v-deo.html
The outer heatsink has the battery side mosfets which switches the battery input. Backside of the PCB multiple SMD ICs are the driver ICs for these mosfets.
The inner heatsink has the output MOSFET/IGBTs and Diodes. Back side of the PCB also has the Driver ICs for these set of MOSFETS .
Hello, I'm watching you from Zambia.Would you please share the link of the Supplier of the parts
Great Video Thank You! God Bless!