Why Hasn't This Simple Problem Been Fixed?
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Roger has another example of a problem with a simple solution that has escaped the manufacturers.
This is easily solved with an arrow to indicate the water flow. Drayton needs to follow the example set by Honeywell.
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#plumbingproblems #drayton #plumbing
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It's scary how good you are at explaining technique.
Terrifyingly scary.
@@grrinc spooooooookily scary
you can tell this guy does a job well, he doesn't half arse it like half the contractors; he do it right. And I appreciate that.
Actually impressed by your ability to explain and expand on your experience in this. You have actually inspired me to solve a couple of different problems I have over here with actuating el.magnetic valves in my heating system which feeds 3 apartments. Greetings from Greece
Hi Roger, big thank you for all your videos, you have been an inspiration. When I met my current partner many years back. I realised her central heating system had quite a few problems, so a drain down was required. Could NOT find a drain cock anywhere. Ended up removing a valve at the closest point to the front door and quickly connecting a hose. Once all jobs were done, I fitted a drain cock.
Drayton bodies are usually marked A and B on the valve body, though you can't always see it when they are in situ. I replace loads of Drayton's annually, but very rarely a Honeywell, very good point about the external drain cock.
The grundfos 15/60 pump on our system is the original when the house was built in 1996 its outlived the boiler. Could this be a record. Sorry I've gone away from the subject matter Rodger
@@johnward5006 Just fit Honeywell instead and save wasting time watching the video
@@howardosborne8647 which you've just wasted time watching😂
Hi Roger, plumber of 40 yrs plus here, I would always put a drain off just as you described through the wall, and when some do fit them I hate it when they are on the upright , and a cheap one to boot coz it runs more down the pipe than out the drain off , I use to take a down stairs rad off, turn the rad valve, have a reducing kit made up and stick the hose on that, and while it was drained down fit a drain off, which by you snatching that valve got the job done but the problem of draining down is still there, snatching is not part of the training haha, but is down to experience ..
I love hearing this guy talk about fixing stuff
I’m not a plumber but can see the difficulty fitting those parts without a direction mark on them.
Like you say it would be so easy to do and would help plumbers And customers out tremendously.
By the way couldn’t you have frozen the pipe work if you couldn’t find a drain off valve?
And yes you’re right it would be so much easier to have it outside the property.
Once again great vid 👍
Nice tip about the drain off. I’ve found Honeywell have plummeted in quality in recent years, don’t get involved much with 3 port valves, have changed a few Drayton 2 ports for zonal heating. One thing I’ve found, especially with Drayton - sometimes the screws want tightening in the actuator - I think this is from factory too.
Yes, fitted ten Honeywell room stats to a job a few years back, and eight of them were massively 'out' in calibration. Had to change them all! Haven't fitted anything Honeywell since. They used to be top notch when I was learning back in the 70s.
I use a big old wet vacuum on the bleed valve on a rad or some other point on the system that is accessible when there is no drain cock. Easy way to empty a system from top, bottom, side, or anywhere really, shifts quite a lot of sludge too. Connect a decent length of hose to the vac out in the garden and away you go!
Good idea,John....that one is a 'keeper'
Every time I fit a new power valve I put ball isolator valves either side. Cheaper and easier if needs changing in the future as the inhibitor costs as much as the isolators
Doing gods work wish more was like you pal
Drain covers through the wall do freeze but the expansion pushes back up the pipe so all is fine. PEX of course is frost proof.
I put or retrofit isolating valves on anything I install that may need work or changing out in the future. Cheap to do, can save a lot of hassle and if they never get used there's very little cost involved initially.
Yep, I always thought it was odd that pumps get valves...but they fail less often than zone and diverter valves!
Do you not use the freezing kits for working on a live system. Strictly as a DIYer I have found them to be very useful if expensive, as long as you follow the instructions precisely.
I was working on a major office refurb on Oxford Street some while ago (I was a running a data cabling company) and they were removing the old style radiators one at a time for testing cleaning and refinishing. They used an electric freezer unit on the live system as they removed each radiator but forgot to tell the electrician who turned of the power over the weekend whilst they did some of their major works. They were very lucky that by the Monday morning the flow of water was still only a small dribble and not the full flow. Had the heating system not also have been turned off then Marks and Spencer's 2 floors below could have had a serious problem.
You certainly know how to present a scenario Roger, detailed, entertaining and informative. I like the haircut btw! 🙂
My family were all plumbers and I trained as an electrician so I understand many points here. Yes you are spot on about drain -offs we always left it visible outside. I wonder did any viewers fit or wire up the early types of motorised valve . They worked by a motor which rotated to valve open and rotated to valve shut. Some of them took about 60secs. cycle to function and when we tested the system it was really frustrating. We all breathed a sigh of relief when the Honeywell spring close came out.
Regarding draining down..... if I cant find an accessible drain cock, I use a rubble bag to catch the water. It has to be a quality one, nice and thick, usually from builders merchants rather than sheds, but with some gaffer tape to, its great for catching a buckets worth of water, plus you can get it nice and low underneath floorboards.
Afterwards, you can make a joke about winning a goldfish.
Haha top tip! A prize every time!
Great tip, I've been using this technique for a while along with a larger Charles wet and dry vac. Saved my bacon on more than one occasion.
Absolutely spot on! Trouble is, the people that design these things have never had to install them! Prevalent in all trades.
Trouble is, even the designer has no input as to how the plumber puts it in.
If i had a penny every time my dad said the same thing "fella who designed this thing never had to install it", i'd be a rich man. Though its a very true point. It should be absolutely mandatory that all designers are made to field install their product in a range of locations. When you are on your back with your head stuck in a tight space under a sink or a boiler with water pissing everywhere, you start to think differently!!
@@kd2239 Yeah but the designer doesn't necessarily design the layout.
I designed a machine once and the electrical cabinet was pushed hard against the wall, and then the machine was pushed hard against the cabinet.
In the spec it said 'leave at least 1 meter clearance (length of cabinet doors was 800mm) couldn't even get in to it, and the machine weighed 12 tonne.
The owner just wanted to squeeze as many in as possible, no one had even looked at the spec for installation, I know this as when I got on site and after moving the machine, we took the spec sheets out of the cabinet (its standard practice across most machine manufactures to have the full set of documents in the electrical cabinet).
I wish they would all stop trying to design stuff that dies as close to the warranty date as possible. Light bulbs alone is a huge issue. Dubai is the proof they won't sell the scam bulbs there that are over driven to make sure they don't last more than a year. Then there is Apple John Deere Tesla Sony LG and others making sure you can't fix anything and all perfectly working devices hit the shredder. Everything is built cheaper not to save you money but to increase profits for shareholders. Even though the unit 20 years ago was ideal and lasts. Everything you buy now is junk because of money not for your benefit. Give me 40 year old appliances every time. My 30 yr old stove I rewired powder coated and rebuilt completely and is working for 10 years expect to be the last stove i own.
U my man!
Agree, my boiler is 25 years old and so is my Volvo. The only problem is the net zero agenda. The WEF want us all electrified and digitised so that we can be switched off if we misbehave.
@Nicky L Even the light bulb industry has admitted to over driving bulbs to make them fail. This is not a wild conspiracy. How do you think Dubai got them to make long lasting bulbs the rest of the world can not buy and Dubai can not export. There is an entire cartel that makes all companies agree to releasing over driven bulbs.
Built in redundancy.
Greater scrap heaps.
Repeat manufacturing.
And the net carbon zero sheep still bey at the weakest link.
ZOMBIES.
Built on slave labour
No quality control with slave labour..
You gonna beat your slave when he “ doin what yer asked “
Fill in the import tax loopholes.
Make Slavery unprofitable.
Bring back DIGNITY to your culture…
Ban goods from the country that exports illegal drugs to bring down your society.
The country that exports covid.
The country that cleans its monoculture society with forced organ donation and no one sees the corpses of the children..
EAT THAT GRETA THUMBNAIL.
Dirty bitch
Electric mafia
HI Roger: Drain Cocks on the outside. Years ago we used to do this, or perhaps a 1/2" FI-Copper & a plug, which is less outside & less to fail as well as allowing a really good flow every time. We used to do this as a matter of course but then legislation changed. Don't ask me exactly when & what the act was etc, but basically it changed to say that it wasn't permissible unless an intermediary valve was fitted on the inside. This could be gotten around in some cases where there was a suspended floor, however in a solid floor that's an entirely different matter. Whilst I agree with you, as well as saying that both F&R pipes should have a drain valve, as far as I'm aware, since I think some time in the 80's (unless it's been changed) it is illegal to fit any live pipework externally without an intermediary isolation valve on the inside. It was a long time ago now when that rule came in, however I distinctly remember it no longer being allowed. You may wish to clarify. Kind regards, Martin
Don't see a problem on a sealed heating system.
@@markrainford1219 I don't see what the problem is, period, apart from they want an internal valve, like you would have for an outside tap in case of frost or other damage. Personally if it's sympathetically installed & protected I think it's a much better way to drain a system at the lowest level. Too much bollocks in the world quite frankly.
Bain of the heating system Roger. Also 3 ways that never turns off because it always runs the c/h last, so effectively runs 24/7/365. AND Internal drain valves that the jumper sticks and you end up pulling out and water going everywhere.
One thing, I always put a gate valve before the drain off even when it exits outside, it does allow you to isolate the drain valve as well as the system, cheers.
All DOC jumpers stick don't they?
@@markrainford1219 Only when you need them, it's malice I think. I just drain a rad and stick a washing m/c pipe on the valve, given up the fight.
If in an aircraft not only would valve have an arrow, but the fittings would be such that it can ONLY be installed the right way. But, if not safety critical ....
Also, why don't plumbers mark plastic pipes H or C red or blue, how easy is that to avoid THEM plumbing WC flush into (my) hot water feed?
On hot and cold pipes I have fitted on past building projects I fit red and blue electrical heat shrink sleeving. Very simple and dead cheap to do.
I am an ardent fan of your lectures, keep them up.
I like the idea of an external drainoff. Great tip.
Got some diy plumbing to do this year. Will do an external drain cock while I'm at it. Simple/smart, like that. Thanks for sharing your knowledge Roger.
If you find you can bring the drain valve out close to an outside grid also helps in the eventuality of needing to do a system drain down. It then only needs a short length of flexi hose pushing onto the end of the drain down nipple and the other end directing down the grid/gulley.
Put a ballofix on it, not a drain cock! Cap the end with a brass cap.
I only fit Honeywell now.
Roughly 6 years ago, I did a new build site of 104 houses, fitting two "tower" zone valves which were almost £20 cheaper each compared to Honeywell.
This site was a two year job and almost half way, all the Tower zone valves began to fail.
I learnt a very valuable lesson... "You get what you pay for" and always try to stick to reliable materials
You had one hundred valves fail?
@@markrainford1219 I can't give an accurate figure but I wouldn't be surprised if it was around that figure.
I was on the 100 house site and we also had another two smaller sites on the go.
After the first few that broke, we stopped questioning the fault and grasped the fact that they were terrible.
I was Fortunate that the merchants took every valve back and they stopped selling tower products after a good amount had been returned
What a very worthy rant. Also very astute to sort out the logical and true "spanner in the works" that was spoiling the whole function through ignorance and sloppy engineering. This demonstration was an eye opener so I do commend the video even though my amateur plumbing days are over I like to see incompetence shown up for what it's worth.
When I was on the tools I always carried in my bag a self cutting drain off they work brilliantly you don't have to drain down to fit one. you can find the most plumbing shops and in Toolstation.
My experience, born of having to often move house as my job changed - due to a mix of choice and unexpected terminations through redundancies (three times) - suggests that as new build homes got built smaller and faster these “niceties” that is, drain cocks, were left out by mostly itinerant style, self-employed, contractors going from job to job and not being around long enough to be held accountable.
Its the main contractor who decides how far the job goes and the-sub contractor is not going to fit anything he is not being paid for. So its the big building companies who are to blame a d trust me they dont care. Im talking from experience. They skin the plumbers and electricians down to peanuts on domestic builds.
@@simonfranklin7659 Yes, I can now see where you’re coming from. And, to be fair you do make a very good point.
Why didn’t you freeze it either side?
Back in my installing days I always fitted an external drain if it was possible and showed the customer where it was for service / drain down in the future... 👍
Good video, Roger. I use Honeywell valves more out historical brand loyalty than anything else. They seem okay, but these, like the Drayton seem expensive for what they are and I feel that they are very much "consumer" quality rather than "professional". I've had to replace synchro motors and heads a couple of times over the years. I'd be interested to know if anyone has experience of any other brands of zone valve apart from Honeywell and Drayton. I was looking for other options, like those from Reliance, RS Pro (Italian mfr), Sauter (Germany), EPH Controls, etc. Generally more expensive but they look more robust.
Drayton 3ports are crap but very cheap when bought in the "Bi Flow" kit back in the day! And the click off head was a godsend! !
At 2:00, yes, I'm not a plumber but I've done a lot of plumbing (for a non plumber!) and almost every installation I've come across by, so called professional, plumbers has had either bodges or not followed correct practice. I've mentioned the drain cock to the outside facility and have been greeted with a look of derision and "you don't want to do that because of freeze back", I've done this on all my systems and, as you say, never had a problem. I agree about the labelling of the valve ports, why A and B? An arrow is so much easier, and cheaper, as the Drayton valve you showed had a stick on label. I don't agree re sympathy for the plumber when they install the valve incorrectly, the customer is paying good money to a professional to do the job correctly, like woodworkers who measure twice and cut once, they should check and check again. I always mark the body with a marker where I can see it when installed, this way when I go round for my final tightness check before filling, I can also check for correct installation.
Retired plumber permanent marker all the time can't go wrong 👍
Hi, love your videos. Just as a matter of interest, the Drayton valves do have A and B on the bottom of the valve ports, as well as on the valve shoulders on the other side of the ports, which will be easily visible when the actuator is taken off. Although there seems to be another issue with the newer Drayton 2-port actuators, which I have in my house. I've recently replaced both as the microswitches are sticking some times. But even the new ones are not working properly. The CH actuator motor sometimes does not open the valve, and hte microswitches seems to be also sticking needs a little knock on the case to release.
Yes I gather now that A and B are on the valve but every pump and motorised valve I fit has an arrow which seems a lot easier. I just don't understand why they resorted to the alphabet.
One of the biggest problems is not just the Synchron motor, but the limit micro switches. I had a problem recently whereby the valve wouldn't come off one endstop because the microswitch was broken and the demand was for the motor to keep driving onto the mechanical endstop. It's this scenario that then usually ends up burning out the Synchron motor ... one to look out for peeps!
Agree, I have fitted more micro switches than anything else.
Brilliant again Roger always learning from you 👍
About 20 years ago I plumbed in my heating system and connected the drain from the return to the overflow safety pipe which obviously discharges outside. This has been met, several times, with amusement from plumbers/heating engineers, until they need to drain the system...
if the over flow terminates out the wall, any drain down of system will stain your wall
@@tonyrichardson2637 It would. But it doesn't. The discharge is at ground level, away from the wall. And below DPC to answer your next question! :)
I was going to suggest freezing packs might help in a similar situation.
Freezer packs come in handy for pulling you out the sh💩t as a last resort .
I am not a licensed plumber but this problem is indicative of modern life. Just throw a new one in and don't worry! I just had to replace the headlight bulbs on my daughter's Hyundai Sante Fe. Step one remove road wheel. Step 2 remove inner guard. It went on from there! The simplest things seem to be made ridiculously complicated or you have to read some 1000 pages of a manual to know where to start.
On the plus side, you are obviously a tradesman, rather than a worker with a certificate, who has pride in their work.
Terry from Australia.
i
Hi Roger
Honeywell all the way and I always put drain off valve right below boiler and leave a small (but long enough) piece of hose to go to an adequate drain if I can mot get it to outside as you do ! Oh and a cheap little tool and flat head screwdriver chained to the wall near by !
GREAT video, I was captivated and to be captivated by the description of, and solution for, said problem just shows how great the presenter is (You). Well Done.
I've recently replaced all my radiator valves with the new-ish Drayton auto-balancing valves with TRV4 head. The valves themselves are uni-directional and DO have an arrow moulded into the metal showing the direction of flow.
Shame I then discovered that the house had been plumbed in as a single pipe with bypass system! 😆 So that's going to be fun to resolve without completely destroying the place...
I always have lots of old towels in the garage - very useful for a quick plumbing 'swap'! ...and loads of other uses...as per The Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy.
Roger , do you ever use the pipe freezing unit ? I used to work for the hire shop and these kits were really popular, they do take up some time though. Love your videos
I hired one of the electric pipe freezer kits back in the 90's, they are brilliant.
I remember when the valves had two microswitches and the motor wasnt bashing up against the end stop waiting for heating to stop so the clockwork mechanism can turn it off . Saving pennies that way means more burnt out motors.
Never saw this when I was plumbing, but I only ever fitted Honeywell valves.
That was great! Now to check my Drayton valve....
the only thing you need is a sticker: if Dayton does not want to put on the valve itself... maybe include it in the set so plumber could put it on themselves for the future product
for the products circulating the market, maybe give out leaflets to the hardware stores so people could pick it up and stick on it themselves.
Just to add on about system drain downs. I am not gas qualified so don't do boilers installs but I do everything else but surely it would be common sense to build a system drain down in under the boiler same idea as a filling loop just in reverse tee off the return, ISO valve then a bit of pipe joined to the condense which would join a waste somewhere. No messing around with hose's and trying to find a drain down that actually works. We have all been there the nozzle is facing the wrong direction or you cant get a key or grips to the drain down to operate it, when you open it you find the rubber inside as fused to the body and come away as you open it rendering that valve useless, so now you need to add replacing that drain down to your to do list but now your stuck because you have to drain down the system to replace the drain down🤦. So you have use a wet vac to drain off a rad hobble together a dohicky to connect the trv to a hose and now your 2 hour over run and you haven't even started the job you came to do😅 Come boiler Engineers help us out 👍 Rant over 🤪
I'm not a plumber, but I have plumbed. In my last three houses, I always put a drain cock or two through the wall for easy drainage. In my current house I did the same and was told by the plumber who installed the boiler that 'you're not allowed to do that anymore'.
Is this true? Is the diluted inhibitor/protector so toxic that it's an environmental risk?
I would do it anyway.
Doesn't make sense. It still drains off somewhere. A hose thrown out onto the pavement is the same thing.
@@grrinc yup, that's what I thought. It either gets poured down the sink, or down a drain. I'd prefer it to be poured into a garden.
@@jimh4072 I did, and if I ever move again and have the strength to renovate another property, I would do it again.
@@xxxxxxxx3476 yup, manufacturers of these types of products have a duty of care, so they've got to be safe. They've got to drain off somewhere .
I changed a synchron motor on a Honeywell valve recently (it was around 30 years old). It hadn't failed completely but kept de-energizing before the room thermostat had got to temperature. The boiler kept stopping & starting so it took ages to heat the house.
My previous flat had a problem with the central heating that I quickly attributed to a zone valve not working. I was unaware you change the synchronous motor and so bought a replacement unit. Only when I had the valve body out and was fitting the new one did I notice the direction arrow was against the flow direction. I guess that even seasoned plumbers make the occasional mistake.
Another very interesting topic. Thanks Roger
The £13 solenoid valve I just installed had a flow direction arrow.
i been in the game over 50years and came across this problem many times .
like you said think they would have sorted this problem out by now
I put external drain cocks on flow and return pipes which are outside, have done on my last 3 houses, its a massive help, as you say no mess inside. Until now I just thought it was not an acceptable thing to do, drain cocks always seem to be inside. Also, if I remember I crank them open about twice a year just to maje sure they function, the washers tend to stick otherwise.
You describe this scenario very well. It was an interesting point you raised about having a drain cock outside Roger. I fitted one to my central heating when I installed it, way back in 2001. Friends have since told me that an outside drain cock is "illegal", so I have kept it hidden from view ever since. Is it okay to have an outside drain cock? To me, it makes perfect sense to have one.
Illegal? The amount I go to that haven’t got any installed. I think I’d shake your hand mate
When installing for the first time, fit quarter turn valves on both sides of the valve. This will make replacement a piece of cake.
Love your channel ❤. GREAT job 👏 old man
That's why i like your videos. Even i am not a plumber and i am not in uk but in romania you never know when you will need a vital piece of info.
Funny that one of mine failed only last week. Without checking I couldn't say if the direction of flow is correct but that's something I will check. The problem with mine was the motor drive gear had a groove in it so wasn't picking up the valve actuator and as you said just clicking I will check DOF though thanks
Poor design is becoming more common these days. Whether or not it is because CAD is becoming the norm I'm not sure. What I am convinced about is that the designers of many fittings haven't actually taken their product and tried to use them in situ because the experience would immediately indicate a problem. Among the many bad designs I've encountered one stands out particularly. To fit a lighting array to a ceiling it had a "rose" for the terminals on which the whole array suspended on a rose cover. For some reason the designer had decided to fix the cover to the rose with 3 tiny electrical thread screws on the edges. After eventually finding a fine screwdriver that would fit into the tiny slots I found that the handle was too wide so that it was hard up to the ceiling and I couldn't turn it. I found a watchmakers screwdriver that I could only turn by small increments. The problem then was to get the first screw located and engaged into the rose thread - it took me 20 minutes to achieve that with several trips down off the stepladder to look for the dropped screw on the floor then another 20 minutes to get the remaining two screws in. As you can imagine my arms felt like they I had spent the day lifting weights due to all the time spent with them over my head.
I hear what you're saying,John but i don't believe it is CAD itself that is the cause but the CAD designer's lack of hands on experience in installing the product in real world situations. All newly designed products/components for use in trades such as plumbing or electrical installation should be thoroughly tested out in the field before being signed off for mass production. Also,the testers need to be the very people from the trades who will be fitting/installing these new components when they enter the market.
Many, many years ago the BBC did a series where they built a house in the grounds of their Pebble Mill studios and covered a lot of 'why don't they?' improvements. On of them was running drains for everything to outside the house.
I wonder why drain downs to outside aren't adopted as part of the modern building regulations. Not very difficult to see why it is the preferred installation design.
@@howardosborne8647 Or just drains in general. When I moved into this Martin Grant '82 build some 25 years ago there was one drain on the heating. Now there are nine, on all the rad drops, the boiler and a couple of others including one just below the diverter valves and pump.
I always fit Drayton. Easy to replace head if all goes pete tong.
A and b well if you know you know.
Same as 3 port a b ab
B for bath lol
Great video. Good point .I have always fitted honeywell as they very rarely go wrong . As I remember drayton valves ( two port ) said that
The flow was from port A to B . And ive just looked at their installation info and this is the case 😁I think we are all guilty of sometimes installing stuff without looking first at the instructions 😉
Someone should inform Drayton that the arrow symbol was invented a very long time ago and is really simple to include on the body of any directional sensitive valve....no need to read up what A and B relate to then. As I've mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't exactly rocket science.
Is this a common design for 3 port valves where you can have T port and Lport where A,B, and C can be different flows
A-B lol a in b out. Does say it in the destructions.
Honeywell valves are easy for synchron motors but I feel not as reliable now. Danfoss good valves but hard to replace synchron motor. Drayton I like as Heads are easy to swap and no ball to fall off but they seize.
I’d create a zone valve with 2 isolating valves attached, a drain cock and a plug in lead!
Don’t know why it’s not being done!
becuase the price will shoot up, and no one will buy it.
Well done you for coming clean on your semi detachment live fix OMG l allso remember my first disaster changing a auto air vent in a classroom in the celling, what a mess make black gunge allover !!!
Drayton plus side nice head to remove to check spindle. Down side, brittle plastic so the spring return clip snaps plus all other parts within the head. Plus many other bad design faults
@@johnward5006 100% correct a clean system is the real answer. to most of the break downs. that is why the manus stipulate water tests now on each service, plus inline filter ect. for the warranty's to stay good.
Finally Roger’s been given a day off from the help desk… or did you film this in your lunch break?! 😅
I'm having my CH upgraded and fitting an external bleed point is a great idea! Thanks
Ballofix valve - not a drain cock.
Make sure they fit Modulation controls.
@@tomhilditch3882 Thanks. I have no idea what they are so I'll have to look into them. .
Have always on fitted Honeywell if I have the choice, but of late the quality is definitely not there. Apparently they have on the quiet admitted that there was an issue. Just pay attention when your replacing or installing a new valve. First check direction of flow 😂🙏🏼
On the Drayton valves the actuator head doesn’t tell you which way round the zone valve is(as the markings on the actuator are the other way to the markings on the valve body) . The markings on valve itself do. The actuator head markings tell you what current position the valve paddle is in.
Drayton clearly need to go back to school and learn some basics. Simple directional arrow symbols are as foolproof as it gets.
It does show it in the instructions I all ways mark it with a arrow with marker pen
The biggest problem I find with Drayton is that the return spring is attached to a flimsy hook moulded into the plastic. It snaps off over time.
Yea, I get that all the time! Click off the head & shake it - if it rattles spring anchor broke . End of spring can be bent to fit in hole left by failed anchor for temporary repair! !
What's the damp patch over your left shoulder
Danfoss for me, agree with arrow on valve body
Crazy that Drayton don't have an arrow! I have 3 drain cocks on my system, installed by me over 30 years ago with 2 Honeywell valves. I think I replaced a synchron motor once.....!
Nice little rant there ! Love it !!
plumber should use a permanent marker pen and draw an arrow on the metal body of the valve ,
The problem with these valves are that they are energised when in the heating position so that means they are slowly burning out for 6 months of the year. Not a good design. Also you dont need to drain the system to change the valve just use a bung on the header tank outlet and rate an airlock.
yes its a must to fit a drain valve to the outside ive always fitted one on the installations , you never know if you are going to be called back to that address , just makes life a bit easier
I don't fit drain valves and if there's one already in place I won't use it. All they do is leak.
Myson 2 ports are a rotary valve rather than a flap and will work even if fitted backwards
@@johnward5006 Which part there John?
@@johnward5006 did you watch the video?
Most two port valves do not work if fitted the wrong way round. If you look into the valve itself they are a one way flap design so as he talks about in the video the motor struggles to open the flap against the flow.
Myson use a rotating cylinder much like a ball valve so although they should be fitted the right way round they will work if fitted backwards.
Modern drain cocks only leak or become inoperative if they are badly installed in the 1st place or subsequently grossly overtightened. Your attitude is folly, as draining will be required at some point. I guess you calculate after you are long gone. Not impressed.
I was waiting for someone to say this about Myson! How simple and reliable they are. You can't go wrong with them
@@PaulGuiry Satchwell & Sunvic did these originally & had a little window on the top which turned red to show it was open. The Myson actuators are a direct replacement. I can still hear them whirring & ticking away, as they do when they get older.
Very few householders know where stopcocks are either…..and when you do find them, you’ve guessed it : They’re boxed in😱😱, seized up and inaccessible .
I was self-employed in heating and plumbing from 2003-21. With a vented system I would plug the feed and vent and close any auto-air-vents and lose water from one side of the motorised valve until the system developed a vacuum to minimise water loss.
An improvement on that is to heat the system up if it's not too big, turn it off and then plug everything. As it cools the vacuum develops quite strongly very often to to point of sucking in air.
Hand protection may be needed against the heat. With you *only* being a builder, I guess your hands would be a bit delicate for the temperatures of a heating system so builders should wear rubber gloves... ha ha ...🤣
For say a leaky valve body I would only replace the body. If a whole valve was necessary I err towards Honeywell.
There may well be a vent inside the boiler. of course it would have to be lower than the valve. And it may have auto-air-vents that need closing for the vacuum method to work.
Really enjoy and learn from your posts. Well done and thanks.
Yep always thought the same
But tbh i only fit honeywell unless customer has supplied their own
Don't remind me about drain cocks - I have a house with 5 ground floor rads that are fed from a first-floor level HW circuit - no drain cocks, no way of doing anything with downstairs rads without cracking the valves and manual draining with a tray and bailing out the water. Aaargh!
Drayton tip : Magic marker arrow on the valve before removing motor unit (until Drayton wakes up and fixes the design!)
You could freeze a pipe and put drain cock in?
Welcome to the real world,, many installers just don't give a fuck. You want to check there's enough corrosion inhibitor too, & indeed that the system was actually properly flushed before commissioning. If the water looks at all dirty, I suggest that you use a proprietary flushing agent to clean the system,, rinse it after draining out the flushing agent & then treating with a good dose of corrosion inhibitor. This will help your system to last much longer than it otherwise would. Better late than never. I say this as if they couldn't be bothered to fit drain cocks,, they clearly are unlikely to have properly flushed your system out of corrosive fluxes etc. Some installers don't care & only want your money.
Always good to have a Henry hoover that sucks water when doing this live change over great for getting the excess water 👍
I can't even begin to remember how many places I've gone into to do a simple job to find no drain valve. It's almost as annoying as when you can't reach the one on the hwt because some bright spark though it would be great fun to fit the tank so the cold feed was right round the back up against the airing cupboard wall!
Roger reminds me as an apprentice 55 years ago we had a job in an old peoples home to install a pocket for a detector in an old Beeston boiler was a Saturday job booked to take all day drain refill my mentor said were going for job and knock were going to do it live , well in them days sealed systems were unheard of so hydraulic locking of the system was not a choice , shirt off bucket over the intended entry point 10 minutes later soaked to the skin and a struggle to get the pocket started all was done home by 10am and in the pub when they opened in them days 11.am where i lived .
Honey well valves superb I know some I fitted 25 years ago still going all the others poor some I’ve changed after 15 months plastic innards on new builds the joys of contracting roger
a plumbing diagram would be nice -- I always make one when I sell a house. Ditto for elec.
Emailed a link for this to Drayton customer service. Maybe they will pass it on to the design team.
that i why i like the design where you cant place it the wrong way, just move one hole or something a bit and there you go, it can only be placed one way - the right way
I have a Honeywell motorised valve on my hotwater feed to the hot tank.
The motors last about 10 years.
Liking the new haircut Roger, very sharp. All you need now is an earring!
I put a usually put good gate valve on either side of the motorised valve just in case
Put simply, all Problems have a Solution. So there should never be any common Problems ever. You should just get a petition of Plumbers to approach Drayton to make the change.
The inlet and outlet ports are embossed A + B on the bottom of the valve, not just on the actuator.
Well the installer still put it the wrong way round so I still think they need an arrow. The Higways Autority seems to think an arrow is a good idea on a one way street sign.
There’s no denying,idiot proofing would certainly help.
Drayton valve bodies are stamped with A & B on the underside of the brass body. Get yourself a bung kit for when there is no drain off! Or use it even when there is a drain off! I use my bung kit all the time to save a drain down
I have one and before that I used a carrot and potato but this is about the valve
How embarrasing for u old boy. It literally says A and B underneath it’s not difficult to work out what that means. Jack of all trades master of none
Is it true that fitting underfloor heating can lower a house's EPC rating? Time for a rant Roger
Honeywell every time. It’s rare to come across one’s that have failed. Most of the time I come across failed or failing Danfoss or Drayton valves and switch them out for Honeywell ones. They cost more but they last longer. As in all walks of life, you get what you pay for.
I love watchin you... You should look at doing some podcasts or audio for books etc 👌
I personally think if a plumber can't figure out the a to b then he should maybe just stop everything and ring the local school. Just my opinion. Its on par with a mechanic installing a tyre tread the wrong rotation. Its just basic and it shouldn't be an issue so I personally don't excuse stupid.