I worked at Malvern depot restoring cable trams, Norm was always watching over us, He only passed away 10 months ago aged 97, Anzac Veteran R.I.P. Norm!
I really love the trams. I could happily ride in them all day and indeed I've done most routes in Melbourne from end to end. Coming from a car based city such as Perth and not having a license, I actually have a greater sense of freedom here in Melbourne, than I did in Perth. So thank you tram drivers, mechanics and everyone else who works on the network - you're amazing. :)
@@tressteleg1 Saw a dude flick a switch to the right hand side and the lights went green after only being red for a few seconds. Pretty sure about it. It's stupid they aren't on trams though, they need 'em more.
You may be right. Keep your eyes open. Maybe a bus driver will tell you if this is so. Tram transponders are on all the time and they do cause T lights to appear when they would not otherwise occur, but only when the lights were going to change anyway.
For a brief time in 1984 I lived across the road from Sth Melb depot. My flatmate was a waiter on the restaurant when they were based there. Had a dinner trip and a lunch trip on them, they were a lot of fun. I had forgotten all about the tram blockade, it was not a good thing at all. I love the W class and I always wondered about the cramped driver cab. I rode in a City Circle W class in 2019 and was surprised how small they are inside compared to modern trams, I had forgotten. I agree with you about them. In this day and age, passengers expect more comfort and amenity, not to mention ease of access. It's the way it goes now. Interesting video. 😊👍
Interesting. I drove the original Restaurant, 442, a number of times from 1988, the W2 cab was even smaller than the City Circle trams. You can see all the vintage trams at the tram museum at Hawthorn, open the second and fourth Saturday each month.
I drove those wonderful old trams between 1980-81. You're right about the sitting and standing, and the lousy weather, but it was the best job I ever had!
Looks like I missed you but about 7 years… I never intended to stay in Melbourne forever, and probably chose the very best time to be on the job. Glad I did it, and that helps me stay up to date ‘talking shop’ to present day employees.
@@murraykitson1436 Same with the Ws. I wore a tracksuit under my full winter uniform and was still cold. No heating, and often the radio said it was around 7° outside at night. And yet some people (who rarely worked at night) wanted to keep Ws running all night when the tourists were mostly in bed while Z class with heating was available.
Way back, while on school holiday at the age if 17, I was on the train from Penrith NSW which hit the road bridge at Granville. Luckily I was in the rear car so was bumped around a bit but not hurt. These videos bring back memories - all good. I would hate to forget the events so thank you for these. I am always happy to be reminded of how well people reacted on that day.
I applied to be a Conductor and went to the interview and passed that, 2 days before my physicals the government announced they were scrapping conductors so I never got the job.. Didn't want to be a driver so gave up my dream.
Very interesting! In the US, it wasn't only Los Angeles that lost its extensive tram (streetcar) system to the automotive/oil interests. All over the country streetcar lines were bought up and trashed, to be replaced by diesel buses. It took us many years to realize that electric rail transport is more efficient at moving large numbers of people, and now cities are laboring to acquire rights of way for new tram systems.
Bus replacements was a disease throughout the English speaking world, as well as France and Spain and probably a few other countries. It was the ‘modern’ thing to do.
@@tressteleg1it basically happened anywhere there was money enough to do it. And even some there was not. The car was though to be the future at the time. And cities from South America, to the US to Europe and even the Soviet Union (at a much slower pace) where getting rid of these ancient and unnecessary trams to make room for cars. I'm happy that attitude has mostly changed.
@@RunawayTrain2502 Replacing trams with buses was largely a disease in the English speaking world along with South America, France, Spain and to some degree Portugal. Not many Russian systems closed during communism as nobody had cars anyway but some small decrepit systems have since closed there. Unfortunately it costs and enormous sum to put back a tram line that used to be there.
Finally footage of the city rd head on. As the reciever the PTC and Vic Police kept me at the scene for 5 hours arguing as to who was going to breath test me. I lost it in the end and demanded the Police get on with it . I was then taken to Western General Hospital by my mother and received a valium injection as it seemed all of my muscles were locked up . I suffered a whiplash injury which my chiropractor 7 years later . 35 years later I still pay the price.
It was a most unfortunate incident. I knew the aggressor and always thought he was a most careful and diligent person so how this happened I don’t know. Hopefully workers compensation has helped to some degree with your injuries.
@@tressteleg1 I agree he was a very safe driver and a wonderful work college . No work cover etc didn't help as it was to late to claim . It was thousands out of my pocket and with the help of a brilliant chiropractor I did make a satisfactory recovery . I still to this day have nightmares with what I saw that day .
So sorry to hear all of that Stephen. If you would like to chat further, you can reach me on tressteleg(at)icloud.com Use the normal symbol instead of (at)
I don’t think that the Hitachis were the best trains ever built. A small number of heavily rebuilt green and gold trams still run on the City Circle route.
The Coroner in his findings into the 3801 saga didn't pull any punches suggesting that it was very possible that "enthusiasts" on the excursion train were playing with handbrakes in a carriage or two carriages so that the engine would "labour" and produce sounds that could be recorded, or simply just listened to, which caused sand having to be released onto the tracks, in such a way that it fouled the circuits giving incorrect and confusing signal colours to the suburban train following. Some rail bosses even went as far as publicly saying that there is no place for steam excursion trains on main lines, and given this incident, those bosses had a very good point. And all steam excursions were stopped for a considerable time. Some of these enthusiasts or "simpletons" as rail police and other investigators still call them to this day, arguably got away with manslaughter, based on what the coroner suggested, as investigators could not prove who the alleged handbrake turners were, even though they had names. Today it would be a different story.
Thanks for confirming in detail what I vaguely remember myself. If one or more people did interfere with the handbrakes, which is more than possible, they certainly got away with murder. I’m sure there are others who know who did it but never said anything. It would be hard to fiddle with the handbrakes without somebody seeing. I was driving a tram that Sunday night in Melbourne when I heard the news on my little radio.
In Victoria most handbrakes were on the underframe, in NSW the handbrakes were in the vestibules. Unfortunately this year long embargo killed the Mountain High railway which ran trains from Tumut to Batlow.
@@tressteleg1 I believe there is some activity there but not enough to satisfy the Council or the state government. I'll check with the in laws. They basically live up the road.
A similar incident happened at Frankston where the up Long Island freight ran into the back of a stationary Hitachi which bent in half arcing upwards. This was the first Hitachi to be withdrawn and the front cabin was used as a driver training model. I think two passengers saw the freight approaching and jumped out. There were no injuries.
In 1978 I used to put 1 cent coins (for scientific purposes) on the tracks while waiting for the No. 3 at the stops in the middle of St Kilda Rd. The trams used to have timber seats and green pull down blinds for the non used door. Freezing in winter.
I recall there was a photo of a restaurant tram on the front cover of a Melbourne telephone directory which had a conductor in the rear driver's cabin.
That’s right. Union policy was that, at that time, all trams had a conductor. One particular woman did that job most days. And I drove 442 a number of times.
I worked at Malvern tram depot as a conductor in the mid 90's. Was a great job with great mates, however I really struggled with how obtrusive the union was in the industry. Worked on both W and Z class trams however preferred the W class overall. Favourite route was the 72 Camberwell and the 69 Kew Cotham Rd.
Obviously you have good memories of your days on the job, just as I did 1988-94. That was probably the pick of all eras especially since we at South Melbourne got to play with the vintage trams as well as the new B class coming from the factory. I can’t imagine too many loved the 72. The 69 (part of the 16 now) would have been better.
Well put together 👍 l can remember well most of these terrible accidents and incidents of the times, and remember like it was yesterday seeing all those trams lined up in the city, good on you for your intelligence for not being a part of that lost cause in the end as like it or not progress has to be made to fit the times, l notice that the instigator has his daughter running the show now, we can also look at other transport events that made big adjustments to our ways of travel, just look at the pilots strike around the times too, but just as an observant aside how good did those news reporters look in those Farah Fawcett hair styles back then! Good days indeed!👌
Thanks. I note the similarity in names between Louie and the current union boss. She may be related but I could not say for sure. Yarra has the union largely under control and it is nowadays little more than a toothless Tiger.
@@tressteleg1 I could be wrong and usually am but when I was at Malvern we were led to believe South Melbourne always got the older rolling stock? so I am guessing this is why that maybe there was no heated W's?
You are probably right, at least as far as the Ws were concerned. In the 6 years I was there, I think we only ever got 2 which were fresh from the workshops. And being usually a late shift worker, word would soon get around if any got heaters. However the B class was another story, and we got them when new for the Light Rail lines. For a while even after we had enough, I believe we got the newest while those a bit older went elsewhere, Preston or Brunswick I think.
I remember the first episode of “The Sullivans” where Kitty alighted from a W class in 1976 but supposedly 1939. I wondered if a W class was specially provided or if Kitty just boarded the next scheduled service.
Knowing all the camera setup, retakes and other mucking around with movie production, almost certain they would have hired one. With a regular service, the cameras would have caused all the passengers to start gawking which would spoil the scene.
I was fortunate to be able to ride on the old Glenelg tram in 2003 . Not long after that I heard that these trams had been retired in favour of new rolling stock , so hopefully the vintage trams have been retired with dignity , perhaps in a museum . I have not been back to Adelaide since then , but it would be interesting to see again . The Clive Robertson scene with the conductor on the tram was priceless ! It reminded me of a sketch from a Mr Bean episode ! Regarding the demise of the restaurant tram , Sydney's equivalent might be the restaurant venture on the classic Manly ferry "South Steyne " , when it was moored at Darling Harbour , last seen at Waverton .
I don’t know why, but the moment the new tram order was completed, the operator wanting nothing more to do with the H cars. Even when there was serious overcrowding after the line was extended though the city, I don’t think any H cars were returned to service. Additionally two were fully restored, one in Silver the other in brown, and if either ran on the line it was only a very few times before they kicked out to the Tram Museum in St Kilda. If you have not seen this video before, you may like it. Adelaide Trams from 1965 to 1976. Silent Movie ua-cam.com/video/erbHPoQDpV8/v-deo.html
Do you have any earlier news clips on trains in Melbourne? A guy from my school fell off a train between East Richmond and Richmond and lost his legs, probably in 1988. Would love to see how that was reported back then.
Sorry I can’t help you there. I was working on the trams at that time and mostly worked Late shift which means starting work at around 4pm so only occasionally got to watch the evening news, and record any tram or train stories. Very unfortunate about your school mate. Unfortunately events that took place before the internet got going later in the 90s just don’t exist. Even some tram crashes I have shown in my series could not be found with Google.
If the W‘s had a decent seat and equipped with something to hold your legs horizontal between hips and knees, the Ws would have been much more satisfactory to drive, except of course when it was freezing outside. If you looked at the inside of the apron of any W cab, you would see it was brightly polished metal where drivers tried to wedge their shoes on the bulge of the headlight for back support. Some of the brake piping was similarly polished. Sydney corridor cars (and maybe others) had foot rests, why not the Ws?
I've been to Syndal station for over a decade (2009+) and it's always so quiet and even dull?! Obviously the action was in the late 80's like it always. Lol John Cain and the Tramway union is thing of the past now since it's all privatised sadly. I'm surprised there's no story via that massive 1989 flood in melbourne?!.1989 what a year that was for an 11 year old me, thank you for this!
I was working the afternoon of the flood. I picked up Route 12 in Clarendon Street and with rain teeming down decided it was better to drive carefully to get there a bit late than have an accident and not get there at all. At Brunswick Street siding the points were full of sand so I decided to take the tram down to Hoddle Street to shunt. When I got to the Park Street terminus at Kilda, there were two dead trams there which had gone through floodwater under the light rail bridge and had damaged motors. An inspect there got me to push the dead tram to South Melbourne Depot. I think there is a photograph or two of the push on my video ‘becoming a tram driver Melbourne 1988’. As I nearly always chose to work late shift, it was only on my days off that I was able to record any TV news stories so clearly that was one I did not get.
@@tressteleg1 , I remember the tram stoppage of 1990 and I remember the wall massive influx of trams as well but parked busses like the MANS or Volvos, must of been something I missed?! Had to train it to the city back then.
At that time, the more important bus services were also operated by the Met and they were the first part to be privatised. As for that strike, it cost all trammies five weeks pay, some of them could ill-afford it, and ultimately gained absolutely nothing thanks to stupid Louie
I find it quite funny how those National Trust blokes are so against any form of modernization. If they had it their way, we'd all still be driving Model T Fords and FJ Holdens. Public transport has to be modern and comfortable if they want people to actually want to ride it! I love a heritage train/tram ride as much as the next guy, but heritage has its place. Thanks for uploading these clips. Love your introspective from someone who was in The Met back then
When I was driving trams around 1990, the National Trust demanded that nothing but W class trams operate the Collins Street routes. I wrote to them saying something like what you wrote, and essentially told to them to keep their noses out of public transport. They did not like that very much, but nevertheless common sense prevailed and eventually Z class and other modern trams were added to those routes as they became available.
Probably most people have heard this , but , " Why didn't the tram driver receive an electric shock ? Because he wasn't a conductor ! ( of electricity ). 😂
I get what you mean with the new trams. Like, Don't scrap all of them, it's always good to keep 2or 3 around for events and excursions. But it's a public transport network first.
By 1990 Conductors had past their use-by date, especially after Kennett prematurely pensioned off career conductors in anticipation of the introduction of ticket vending machines. When it turned out to be a premature decision as the machines were not yet reliable, the staff shortage created was replaced by contract conductors employed for just three months at a time, many of whom were not too fussed about collecting fares. The nett result was that, like nearly everywhere else overseas, conductors were past their use-by date. I was a driver at that time and on A and B classes, it was easy to see who was collecting fares diligently and who was not. Unfortunately too many were not.
@@DavidHopkinson-l8j Funny thing, but I just answered a guy in Madrid, Spain, who made exactly the same lament about his city!! I said that the same is true in “anywhere that is good.”
Just makes me miss being a kid/teen travelling around with mates and taking those trains to school,we used to love the old blue trains because we could open the doors and stand in the doorway and looking out at the world and the rush when we went over big bridges looking down at how we we could fall we loved those old blue trains,showing my age here but i do miss the good old days and the days people werent wrapped in bubble wrap you had to use your own common sense to be safe unlike today,we wouldnt even get into any trouble for being in the doorways of those blue trains we only got told to shut the door if a conducter happened to see you hanging out in his rear view mirror.....and then there were the old red rattlers before that but they were being faded out when i started school so didnt have as much good times on them. We did force the doors open on the later ones and continued running amok. Thw W class trams were a great iconic sight of melbourne i hated the look of the later ones,so many memories tied to these old trams and trains.
Yes I know what you mean - everybody is wrapped up in Cottonwool these days, not given the chance to take any risks with the need to think for themselves. Nowadays when anything goes wrong, somebody else is to blame. Single deck red electric trains in Sydney were the same - Leave the doors open if you like. I have a photograph of a couple of teenage boys going home from school sitting on the floor centimetres away from the open doors. All that fun is gone now.
Yeah we did that as well,there wasnt much we didnt do but always stayed inside the train. Leaving the doors open on hot days was great air con,even the oldies liked it,now theres no fun or thrills its a different world,im glad i grew up back then i'd hate to be a young person these days@@tressteleg1
Standing and looking down out of the open doors going over the Merri/Rushall bridge was always fun among a few other bridges as well but that was definately a favourite@@tressteleg1
Lack of underframe strengthening was always an issue with the Hitachi train sets. Carriages are not supposed to buckle in that manner, in an accident. The impact forces are supposed to be taken by the couplings between carriages and by the drivers cab.
So true. A train with a reasonable underframe would not collapse like than after a bit of a bang. The Comeng did not seem too bad, in the circumstances.
My late grandfather drove trams for many years I think he retired in the late 80s just wondering if you knew him his name was Carmelo "Charlie" Guzzetta
didn’t start on the trams until late 1987, and if he was at Brunswick or South Melbourne, I did not hear his name. With about six other depots, I knew nobody there.
Unfortunately the replacement of trams with buses started with Paris where all trams were gone before 1940. London finished the deed in 1953 and most American cities were gone by the 1960s so unfortunately Sydney and other Australian cities besides Melbourne blindly followed suit.
When sold by conductors, bus drivers and maybe stations, the 3 hour ticket could be stretched. It guaranteed 3 full hours, so if you bought it a few minutes after the hour, it was clipped starting from the next full hour. And all you had to do was to start your ride before the last hour ended. Buy it at 10.03am, clipped 11am, good until 2pm, start last ride at 1:58 and if it is a long ride, get another hour out of it. Thus nearly 5 hours. Also buy after 6pm, ticket clipped 7pm, good to the end of service after midnight.
with the new tram story (This is my opinion after going to the Melbourne Tram Museum) I think the (at the time) new trams are better for drivers as they actually have good seats but if the W classes had those seats then old would be better as standing in the cab of a W7 felt better to me with the handles instead of buttons and pedals
As a former driver of everything from vintage trams to B class, my opinion is that while it was fine standing and driving for a while, the seat was atrociously uncomfortable as it was too high above the floor. A footrest would have helped a lot. So I stood until my feet ached, then sat until my back ached, so stood again, etc…The modern trams were thus better although the original seats on Z and A class were quite basic. B class came with better seats.
I dont know the terminal velocity of a W class Tram, but I swear it was reached down the hill from the harp to childers st on route 48. Memories of trams? plate glass windows, open middle sections with just a wooden plank to stop you falling out., compulsory smoking, ladies sections, 5 bells, transfer tickets, cow catchers at the front, arcing wires, italian crewed rescue trucks, time clocks that killed drivers and connies, Inspectors who inspected but never issued a fine,. old frank stopping the tram at the skinny dog so he could have a pot and he was the driver. Sadly he was hit by a car and died of injuries ourside the Hap one night., kindly conductors giving us ticket books so we could play trams at home. WW1 Diggers and their Widows having a special free travel medallion. Standing between the tracks as trams passed both ways, great times. Wooden seats, beautiful leather seats cut with knifes, stitched back together by saddle makers. Connies who wouldnt bother to collect fares and Connies who were hell bent on getting every fare in a packed tram. Drivers who were too drunk to drive back from the footy at Princess Park and on it goes. Women with 4 kids and a pram being helped on and off by the Connie, riding the running boards. My only bad memories are of an hourly service on sundays that was 50/50 to turn up. And who could forget Skippy falling asleep and running off the end of the 48 at Nth Balwyn.
Friends in their car clock me doing 70 down the hill from Bell Street to Miller Street on the route 10, but the 48 hills were more impressive so they could have gone faster. I’m pleased you have all those other happy memories. It’s not like that any more.
I wish Adelaide kept it's tram network, bloody SA Liberal(conservative)Government. Now the past and present Labor Government are re investing in the Adelaide Tram Network. Thanks for the upload, it was good to see Clive Robertson on a tram, loved his late evening News show.
Unfortunately from the 1930s, the English speaking world decided that replacing noisy old trams with ‘modern flexible buses’ was the way to go. In SA it was the Liberals who scrapped the trams, Labor in NSW and 60+ years their successors continue their hate for trams. It is the Liberals in Qld that today hate trams and the Brisbane ‘Metro’ is no more than longer electric buses.
That Gradient on the Down (Towards Glen Waverley from Melbourne) is VERY steep. Its lucky that the old Comengs can even still brake there. OF couse their brakes are different from the old Hitachi/Martin & king trains. I can understand why some of trhe older Silver sets, can have wonky brakes, being A mechanic for the Trams and Trains. The "Tram Depot Mechanics" that you used to see, when you were a Tram Driver or Conductor, We also do the Trains as well. And know the Signals, But for some supid reason beyond me, when My mum (who was a Tram Conductress at the time, thay sadly got rid of the connies) I arranged for her to move to the railways, as a Driver.... but she just could NOT understand the lights!. There was no Train Simulators on PC's back then. There is now, and sadly, she understands the lights now, but she is retired now. and has bad Arthritis in her hip. Everything else about her is ok. The Irony huh?
There’s no doubt that stopping at the bottom of that hill is a bit challenging, but I did it successfully at least once. See video link at the end of this. The Comeng trains with Rheostatic braking would have no trouble stopping there, but earlier trains relying on just Westinghouse could easily get a clumsy driver into a lot of trouble. That’s probably what happened here. Are you on R10? I never heard of any maintenance or other crossover between trams and trains. As for your mother, I don’t think any conductors were going to be sacked. They were offered either redundancy packages or transfer to other PTC positions. Despite all the videos I have added signal meanings to, most indicators I still can’t remember and refer to notes. Very complicated while Sydney obtains the same results in a way which anyone can easily understand. Your mother should get her hip replaced ASAP. I did, and could not be better! I walked a 2 km round trip 6 days later, carrying a walking stick just in case I stumbled, which did not happen. Sly Drives of Electric Trains. Melbourne, Sydney, London. ua-cam.com/video/dR8gZ9tJeyI/v-deo.html
excellent. my favourite part - 11:49 the connie with a good sense of humour and clive robertson showing what he did well. i thought you would have informed us about how the older trams didn't even supply seats for the drivers! on the perth abc news at 1900 on the 18th of march it had a report about the gap between platforms and sydney trains. it showed footage of people falling down to the tracks. i had a lot of trouble watching it. this is deadly serious. and it reported that such things happen 5 times a week. the authority stated that parents should supervise their kids. what if a parent has 3 kids and therefore not enough hands to hold all of them. or people texting while they enter the train because texting is more important. this is a serious design flaw that should have been addressed before the cars were allowed into service.
In fact the Ws did have seats, hinged from the rear cab door. It could be lowered to enable driving from a standing position. Years ago around 1986 I dashed off a Sydney train at Strathfield and when hurrying to get on, missed my step an slipped between platform and train. A few people hauled me out very quickly. But certainly the gaps in places are much too wide, and today there is no reason for train floors often to be much higher than the platform height. And the train I slipped from was a red set, the widest trains of all. So the problem was nothing new.
@@tressteleg1 ,personal experience. omg! as for the trams, i was under the impression that some of the really old ones were made without seats? perhaps installed later.
Yes, In the very early days, trams did not have seats for the drivers. It varied from city to city, but some tramways place a hole in the cab floor into which a portable stool could be placed. Over the years, seating became less basic, not that Sydney got that far.
@@tressteleg1 My grandfather told me that the original thinking was that a seated driver might fall asleep...only years later was it figured out that a standing driver might tire sooner.
The Cowan disaster caused a kneejerk reaction where all tourist railways were halted for a year. This killed off the Mountain High railway which ran from Tumut to Batlow.
Some coverage of the 1990 tram blockade from an unusual little seen source. Mr Hicks a visiting fan from the US or Canada visited in January 1990. A bad time he lucked on for his Melbourne visit to ride trams, but filmed ordinary scenes that are now an historic record. One of quite a few vids on his channel : ua-cam.com/video/9BLr5Mq2htk/v-deo.html
As you may have seen in the video, I was working the night that the trams were dumped in the city. I did not participate. I was so disgusted that I never took a single photo of the blockage, and want to forget it totally. However I also worked the afternoon and night that trams started being returned to their depots. THAT WAS A REAL ADVENTURE!
Whilst it was probably no fun driving these old 'W' class trams when it was 4c but it's a misconception they were slow, once I had to do 65mph (108kmh) to overtake (undertake) one late one night down the hill on Glenferrie rd outside Scotch College in the 1970s. They could easily keep up with the traffic. Where in Melb can you do 60kmh in peak times.? The annoyance with them (more so as it is today on ALL trams) is the frequent stopping to pick up/drop off passengers, stopping traffic. Jeff, selling off our heritage for a fist full of dollars was not a good thing.!
Friends once clocked me doing 70 km/h down Gilbert Road West Preston but that was down a long continuous grade. But the fact of the matter is, climbing those grades was a completely different matter. On some of the steeper grades it’s doubtful whether 40 km/h could have been reached. All new trams simply ate hills and could keep up with or even go faster than general Road traffic. While peak hour traffic is slow, that is for only four or so hours per day. The rest of the time faster speeds are quite possible except where silly councils often unnecessarily keep them down to 40. Additionally idiot bosses have now limited W class to 30 or 35 km/h for safety reasons that are no longer valid, not that any speed is needed on the city circle route anyway. Don’t get me wrong, it was a great privilege to be able to drive W‘s but the fact was they were past their time. I also chose a great time to be on the job and got to drive every type of passenger tram on the tramway including all the vintage trams except a few of the fourwheelers.
By 2008 it was stored at North Fitzroy (former) tram depot, then to Preston Workshops, Newport railway workshops and finally Bylands Tram Museum in 2019.
@@DKS225 Looks that way after the crash. I never particularly liked those trains. They just seemed like tin boxes on rails. Although one is at Newport, there is no room for it inside and ongoing vandalism attacks will see it eventually too rotted to restore.
I have driven trains unofficially around Sydney, Melbourne, and once in London. But that was a long time ago. A friend does the Melbourne clips for me. You might enjoy this one. Sly Drives of Electric Trains. Melbourne, Sydney, London. ua-cam.com/video/dR8gZ9tJeyI/v-deo.html
Melbourne is smartest city in Australia now with Sydney spending billions of dollars to build short sections of tram lines when they already had an impressive network of tramlines all over the city and surrounding suburbs but scrapped it in favour of cars & Brisbane a short time later both cities choosing to bury the tracks instead of removing them and as such have all sorts of dramas when digging up the roads or replacing water mains . Makes you wonder why they don't just uncover them and use the original tracks, Queensland the smart state? Nope
Unfortunately from the 1930s, the entire English speaking world started scrapping their tramways and replacing them with “modern flexible diesel buses “ (as they described them). This trend took off especially from the 1950s and by the late 70s almost nothing was left. Some Melbourne tram fans told me the reason Melbourne survived was because the Country Party members of the coalition did not want to waste good money ‘upgrading’ City transport when such money would be better spent on farmers and the rural community. Smart or penny pinching? If you think Victoria is such a brilliant place, why did they rip down the overhead wires on the rail line to Gipsland, and why are they still running dirty diesel rail motors when other states are all using electric trains to the outer suburban areas? Have you ever smelt the stink and heard the noise in Southern Cross?
The line which runs south from Sunshine and joins the Geelong line just south of Werribee was built so that VLine trains could stay off tracks used by suburban trains. Thus the people of Deer Park etc are stuck with inferior rail motors.
Well, they replaced some of the Taits. I was a student at the Mordialloc Chelsea High School and we were told a Hitachi will be passing around morning recess. We all waited and nothing happened, however it arrived ten minutes later during History and the room empied to watch the train pass and the teacher “cracked it”.
Well they would have been new and exciting at the time. Similarly when the first double deck carriages appeared in Sydney, the radio station I listened to announced when one would be coming through Wynyard station in the morning peak hour. So on my way to my office, I popped into the station and watched it come through. The XPT was also massive news when it was first released.
Yarra used the excuse of “old and unsafe“, when, in my opinion, the real reason was “we could not be bothered with these any more“. Considering they are contractors, it is the tail wagging the government dog.
I worked at Malvern depot restoring cable trams, Norm was always watching over us, He only passed away 10 months ago aged 97, Anzac Veteran R.I.P. Norm!
Yes I knew we lost Norm only last year. I remember the Birney and a four wheeler being there, possibly HTT8. Cable cars must have been earlier.
😁 so it was Norm ay who cut em all for a day off 😂 I heard it was someone who worked there
I really love the trams. I could happily ride in them all day and indeed I've done most routes in Melbourne from end to end. Coming from a car based city such as Perth and not having a license, I actually have a greater sense of freedom here in Melbourne, than I did in Perth. So thank you tram drivers, mechanics and everyone else who works on the network - you're amazing. :)
Agreed on the ease of mobility. Just a pity nobody bites the bullet about tram priority at traffic lights.
@@tressteleg1 I think buses have a switch that turns lights green, but not trams.
Some buses may have it but I have my doubts. The facility is badly needed on the trams.
@@tressteleg1 Saw a dude flick a switch to the right hand side and the lights went green after only being red for a few seconds. Pretty sure about it. It's stupid they aren't on trams though, they need 'em more.
You may be right. Keep your eyes open. Maybe a bus driver will tell you if this is so. Tram transponders are on all the time and they do cause T lights to appear when they would not otherwise occur, but only when the lights were going to change anyway.
My brother had his 21st birthday on the tram car restaurant. In 1989. Now it's gone forever.
You can thank the clowns running Yarra Trams for that.
I kind of miss the Hitachi trains. They weren't that great in Summer, but opening the windows was pretty cool, haha.
Thank you for sharing this video!
Exactly! Something about them trains.... Nostalgia aside, I just thought they look cool too. And yeah, cool video. I'm watching now.
😊👍
😊👍
You can still sit in them, either at the Newport Railway Museum or Easey’s burger restaurant in Collingwood.
For a brief time in 1984 I lived across the road from Sth Melb depot. My flatmate was a waiter on the restaurant when they were based there. Had a dinner trip and a lunch trip on them, they were a lot of fun. I had forgotten all about the tram blockade, it was not a good thing at all. I love the W class and I always wondered about the cramped driver cab. I rode in a City Circle W class in 2019 and was surprised how small they are inside compared to modern trams, I had forgotten. I agree with you about them. In this day and age, passengers expect more comfort and amenity, not to mention ease of access. It's the way it goes now. Interesting video. 😊👍
Interesting. I drove the original Restaurant, 442, a number of times from 1988, the W2 cab was even smaller than the City Circle trams. You can see all the vintage trams at the tram museum at Hawthorn, open the second and fourth Saturday each month.
I drove those wonderful old trams between 1980-81. You're right about the sitting and standing, and the lousy weather, but it was the best job I ever had!
Looks like I missed you but about 7 years… I never intended to stay in Melbourne forever, and probably chose the very best time to be on the job. Glad I did it, and that helps me stay up to date ‘talking shop’ to present day employees.
@@murraykitson1436 Same with the Ws. I wore a tracksuit under my full winter uniform and was still cold. No heating, and often the radio said it was around 7° outside at night. And yet some people (who rarely worked at night) wanted to keep Ws running all night when the tourists were mostly in bed while Z class with heating was available.
Way back, while on school holiday at the age if 17, I was on the train from Penrith NSW which hit the road bridge at Granville. Luckily I was in the rear car so was bumped around a bit but not hurt.
These videos bring back memories - all good. I would hate to forget the events so thank you for these.
I am always happy to be reminded of how well people reacted on that day.
A truly terrible day that was.
I was 12 at the time and was a paper boy in Melbourne, the front page of The Sun that day is seared into my brain "83 dead". Glad you made it.
83 dead referred to the terrible crash at Granville in around 1977, not the 3801 crash 12 years later.
I applied to be a Conductor and went to the interview and passed that, 2 days before my physicals the government announced they were scrapping conductors so I never got the job.. Didn't want to be a driver so gave up my dream.
That is unfortunate. I only ever wanted to be a driver, but the apprenticeship was to start as a conductor, an experience I don’t regret.
Genuinely surprised to see the old paper notes
Very interesting! In the US, it wasn't only Los Angeles that lost its extensive tram (streetcar) system to the automotive/oil interests. All over the country streetcar lines were bought up and trashed, to be replaced by diesel buses. It took us many years to realize that electric rail transport is more efficient at moving large numbers of people, and now cities are laboring to acquire rights of way for new tram systems.
Bus replacements was a disease throughout the English speaking world, as well as France and Spain and probably a few other countries. It was the ‘modern’ thing to do.
@@tressteleg1it basically happened anywhere there was money enough to do it. And even some there was not. The car was though to be the future at the time. And cities from South America, to the US to Europe and even the Soviet Union (at a much slower pace) where getting rid of these ancient and unnecessary trams to make room for cars. I'm happy that attitude has mostly changed.
@@RunawayTrain2502 Replacing trams with buses was largely a disease in the English speaking world along with South America, France, Spain and to some degree Portugal. Not many Russian systems closed during communism as nobody had cars anyway but some small decrepit systems have since closed there. Unfortunately it costs and enormous sum to put back a tram line that used to be there.
Finally footage of the city rd head on. As the reciever the PTC and Vic Police kept me at the scene for 5 hours arguing as to who was going to breath test me. I lost it in the end and demanded the Police get on with it . I was then taken to Western General Hospital by my mother and received a valium injection as it seemed all of my muscles were locked up . I suffered a whiplash injury which my chiropractor 7 years later . 35 years later I still pay the price.
It was a most unfortunate incident. I knew the aggressor and always thought he was a most careful and diligent person so how this happened I don’t know. Hopefully workers compensation has helped to some degree with your injuries.
@@tressteleg1 I agree he was a very safe driver and a wonderful work college . No work cover etc didn't help as it was to late to claim . It was thousands out of my pocket and with the help of a brilliant chiropractor I did make a satisfactory recovery . I still to this day have nightmares with what I saw that day .
So sorry to hear all of that Stephen. If you would like to chat further, you can reach me on tressteleg(at)icloud.com
Use the normal symbol instead of (at)
I loved the Hitachi stock when I was a kid. But then, I was a kid visiting... I also miss the green and gold trams I remember from the 90’s...
I don’t think that the Hitachis were the best trains ever built. A small number of heavily rebuilt green and gold trams still run on the City Circle route.
The Coroner in his findings into the 3801 saga didn't pull any punches suggesting that it was very possible that "enthusiasts" on the excursion train were playing with handbrakes in a carriage or two carriages so that the engine would "labour" and produce sounds that could be recorded, or simply just listened to, which caused sand having to be released onto the tracks, in such a way that it fouled the circuits giving incorrect and confusing signal colours to the suburban train following. Some rail bosses even went as far as publicly saying that there is no place for steam excursion trains on main lines, and given this incident, those bosses had a very good point. And all steam excursions were stopped for a considerable time. Some of these enthusiasts or "simpletons" as rail police and other investigators still call them to this day, arguably got away with manslaughter, based on what the coroner suggested, as investigators could not prove who the alleged handbrake turners were, even though they had names. Today it would be a different story.
Thanks for confirming in detail what I vaguely remember myself. If one or more people did interfere with the handbrakes, which is more than possible, they certainly got away with murder. I’m sure there are others who know who did it but never said anything. It would be hard to fiddle with the handbrakes without somebody seeing. I was driving a tram that Sunday night in Melbourne when I heard the news on my little radio.
In Victoria most handbrakes were on the underframe, in NSW the handbrakes were in the vestibules. Unfortunately this year long embargo killed the Mountain High railway which ran trains from Tumut to Batlow.
Thanks for that information. I hope that Mountain High can get going again in the future.
@@tressteleg1 I believe there is some activity there but not enough to satisfy the Council or the state government. I'll check with the in laws. They basically live up the road.
If you do find out something, I would be interested to know.
love the old school union strikes,, people need to embrace workers rights like they used to back in the days
A similar incident happened at Frankston where the up Long Island freight ran into the back of a stationary Hitachi which bent in half arcing upwards. This was the first Hitachi to be withdrawn and the front cabin was used as a driver training model. I think two passengers saw the freight approaching and jumped out. There were no injuries.
You must have worked in the railway as uou used the correct directions of travel. I was based at carrum.
In 1978 I used to put 1 cent coins (for scientific purposes) on the tracks while waiting for the No. 3 at the stops in the middle of St Kilda Rd. The trams used to have timber seats and green pull down blinds for the non used door. Freezing in winter.
“Freezing in winter” One good reason they were past their use-by date, when other trams had heating.
I recall there was a photo of a restaurant tram on the front cover of a Melbourne telephone directory which had a conductor in the rear driver's cabin.
That’s right. Union policy was that, at that time, all trams had a conductor. One particular woman did that job most days. And I drove 442 a number of times.
I love the collision one his way of saying it “we were just approaching the station when someone said “oooh noo” and then bang”
Such is life 😆
I worked at Malvern tram depot as a conductor in the mid 90's. Was a great job with great mates, however I really struggled with how obtrusive the union was in the industry. Worked on both W and Z class trams however preferred the W class overall. Favourite route was the 72 Camberwell and the 69 Kew Cotham Rd.
Obviously you have good memories of your days on the job, just as I did 1988-94. That was probably the pick of all eras especially since we at South Melbourne got to play with the vintage trams as well as the new B class coming from the factory. I can’t imagine too many loved the 72. The 69 (part of the 16 now) would have been better.
Well put together 👍 l can remember well most of these terrible accidents and incidents of the times, and remember like it was yesterday seeing all those trams lined up in the city, good on you for your intelligence for not being a part of that lost cause in the end as like it or not progress has to be made to fit the times, l notice that the instigator has his daughter running the show now, we can also look at other transport events that made big adjustments to our ways of travel, just look at the pilots strike around the times too, but just as an observant aside how good did those news reporters look in those Farah Fawcett hair styles back then! Good days indeed!👌
Thanks. I note the similarity in names between Louie and the current union boss. She may be related but I could not say for sure. Yarra has the union largely under control and it is nowadays little more than a toothless Tiger.
I volunteer at Melbourne tram museum. Got asked not to come back. 😥
Brilliant completion. Thanks!
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Not all W's were cold we had one at Malvern with heaters I occasionally Connied on
Well Malvern was lucky, but you did not say when that was. There were certainly no heated Ws at South Melbourne when I left in 1994.
I was at G'huntly Depot 1990-93 & recall some Ws had the heater box under the seats
You were lucky. None at South had any heaters. Just jam a leg against the inside double headlight boxes when stopped. 😒
@@tressteleg1 I could be wrong and usually am but when I was at Malvern we were led to believe South Melbourne always got the older rolling stock? so I am guessing this is why that maybe there was no heated W's?
You are probably right, at least as far as the Ws were concerned. In the 6 years I was there, I think we only ever got 2 which were fresh from the workshops. And being usually a late shift worker, word would soon get around if any got heaters.
However the B class was another story, and we got them when new for the Light Rail lines. For a while even after we had enough, I believe we got the newest while those a bit older went elsewhere, Preston or Brunswick I think.
I remember the first episode of “The Sullivans” where Kitty alighted from a W class in 1976 but supposedly 1939.
I wondered if a W class was specially provided or if Kitty just boarded the next scheduled service.
Knowing all the camera setup, retakes and other mucking around with movie production, almost certain they would have hired one. With a regular service, the cameras would have caused all the passengers to start gawking which would spoil the scene.
I was fortunate to be able to ride on the old Glenelg tram in 2003 . Not long after that I heard that these trams had been retired in favour of new rolling stock , so hopefully the vintage trams have been retired with dignity , perhaps in a museum . I have not been back to Adelaide since then , but it would be interesting to see again . The Clive Robertson scene with the conductor on the tram was priceless ! It reminded me of a sketch from a Mr Bean episode ! Regarding the demise of the restaurant tram , Sydney's equivalent might be the restaurant venture on the classic Manly ferry "South Steyne " , when it was moored at Darling Harbour , last seen at Waverton .
I don’t know why, but the moment the new tram order was completed, the operator wanting nothing more to do with the H cars. Even when there was serious overcrowding after the line was extended though the city, I don’t think any H cars were returned to service. Additionally two were fully restored, one in Silver the other in brown, and if either ran on the line it was only a very few times before they kicked out to the Tram Museum in St Kilda. If you have not seen this video before, you may like it.
Adelaide Trams from 1965 to 1976. Silent Movie
ua-cam.com/video/erbHPoQDpV8/v-deo.html
@@tressteleg1 Thanks for the information , I have not seen the recommended video , but look forward to doing so.
Do you have any earlier news clips on trains in Melbourne? A guy from my school fell off a train between East Richmond and Richmond and lost his legs, probably in 1988. Would love to see how that was reported back then.
Sorry I can’t help you there. I was working on the trams at that time and mostly worked Late shift which means starting work at around 4pm so only occasionally got to watch the evening news, and record any tram or train stories. Very unfortunate about your school mate. Unfortunately events that took place before the internet got going later in the 90s just don’t exist. Even some tram crashes I have shown in my series could not be found with Google.
Teams and train's never get old
Unfortunately sometimes they get too old for their own good 😊
Strangely my uncle preferred driving a W Class to the Z's. The W might have been easier for a short person to drive, but I have no idea.
If the W‘s had a decent seat and equipped with something to hold your legs horizontal between hips and knees, the Ws would have been much more satisfactory to drive, except of course when it was freezing outside. If you looked at the inside of the apron of any W cab, you would see it was brightly polished metal where drivers tried to wedge their shoes on the bulge of the headlight for back support. Some of the brake piping was similarly polished. Sydney corridor cars (and maybe others) had foot rests, why not the Ws?
I've been to Syndal station for over a decade (2009+) and it's always so quiet and even dull?! Obviously the action was in the late 80's like it always. Lol John Cain and the Tramway union is thing of the past now since it's all privatised sadly. I'm surprised there's no story via that massive 1989 flood in melbourne?!.1989 what a year that was for an 11 year old me, thank you for this!
I was working the afternoon of the flood. I picked up Route 12 in Clarendon Street and with rain teeming down decided it was better to drive carefully to get there a bit late than have an accident and not get there at all. At Brunswick Street siding the points were full of sand so I decided to take the tram down to Hoddle Street to shunt. When I got to the Park Street terminus at Kilda, there were two dead trams there which had gone through floodwater under the light rail bridge and had damaged motors. An inspect there got me to push the dead tram to South Melbourne Depot. I think there is a photograph or two of the push on my video ‘becoming a tram driver Melbourne 1988’. As I nearly always chose to work late shift, it was only on my days off that I was able to record any TV news stories so clearly that was one I did not get.
@@tressteleg1 , I remember the tram stoppage of 1990 and I remember the wall massive influx of trams as well but parked busses like the MANS or Volvos, must of been something I missed?! Had to train it to the city back then.
At that time, the more important bus services were also operated by the Met and they were the first part to be privatised. As for that strike, it cost all trammies five weeks pay, some of them could ill-afford it, and ultimately gained absolutely nothing thanks to stupid Louie
I find it quite funny how those National Trust blokes are so against any form of modernization. If they had it their way, we'd all still be driving Model T Fords and FJ Holdens. Public transport has to be modern and comfortable if they want people to actually want to ride it! I love a heritage train/tram ride as much as the next guy, but heritage has its place. Thanks for uploading these clips. Love your introspective from someone who was in The Met back then
When I was driving trams around 1990, the National Trust demanded that nothing but W class trams operate the Collins Street routes. I wrote to them saying something like what you wrote, and essentially told to them to keep their noses out of public transport. They did not like that very much, but nevertheless common sense prevailed and eventually Z class and other modern trams were added to those routes as they became available.
Thank god theres some people left in the PT world with a crumb of public transport. Appreciate your work mate
@@1994ToyotaCamryEnjoyer I left in 1994 but unfortunately most ‘fans’ are not much interested in any more than pretty pictures of trams or trains 🙁
Probably most people have heard this , but , " Why didn't the tram driver receive an electric shock ? Because he wasn't a conductor ! ( of electricity ). 😂
Oh Dear!!
Nice one "Dad" haha!
@@thisislilraskal It was actually MY dad who told me this ! 😀
So obviously a rather old joke, ha ha. There were still conductors when I was driving, but they did not get zapped either 😆
I get what you mean with the new trams. Like, Don't scrap all of them, it's always good to keep 2or 3 around for events and excursions. But it's a public transport network first.
great collection of footage
😊. There will be more.
I miss the conductors 😢
By 1990 Conductors had past their use-by date, especially after Kennett prematurely pensioned off career conductors in anticipation of the introduction of ticket vending machines. When it turned out to be a premature decision as the machines were not yet reliable, the staff shortage created was replaced by contract conductors employed for just three months at a time, many of whom were not too fussed about collecting fares. The nett result was that, like nearly everywhere else overseas, conductors were past their use-by date. I was a driver at that time and on A and B classes, it was easy to see who was collecting fares diligently and who was not. Unfortunately too many were not.
So that's wot you like ! Clive Robertson was a rare Australian treasure , I believe . Great video here . Priceless .
Thanks. Lucky I just recorded those clips years ago, long before UA-cam was invented .
My mum used to call him a shovinist pig... What ever that means?
My dad was an apprentice sheet metal worker with MMTB in the late 30s until he turned 18 in 1941 and went to war.
That would have been an interesting time to be there.
This collection of rare news clips and footage is awesome. Thanks for sharing this mate
👍😊
I forgot to tell you, the old cable drum is still in place, outside the Kew Cemetery,. They left it where it was, just covered it over.
That would not surprise me 😊
Bloody Miss Colonial Tram Resturant !!!!
I had my wedding on one of them. It was the best. So lucky.
I drove the original Restaurant 442 several times in 1988/89. I believe it was a quality night out.
Hitch, still there after all these years
I remember that country.!!! It's Australia!!! The Australia I grew up in, which is totally unrecognisable from the country I'm currently living in...
@@DavidHopkinson-l8j Funny thing, but I just answered a guy in Madrid, Spain, who made exactly the same lament about his city!! I said that the same is true in “anywhere that is good.”
Just makes me miss being a kid/teen travelling around with mates and taking those trains to school,we used to love the old blue trains because we could open the doors and stand in the doorway and looking out at the world and the rush when we went over big bridges looking down at how we we could fall we loved those old blue trains,showing my age here but i do miss the good old days and the days people werent wrapped in bubble wrap you had to use your own common sense to be safe unlike today,we wouldnt even get into any trouble for being in the doorways of those blue trains we only got told to shut the door if a conducter happened to see you hanging out in his rear view mirror.....and then there were the old red rattlers before that but they were being faded out when i started school so didnt have as much good times on them. We did force the doors open on the later ones and continued running amok. Thw W class trams were a great iconic sight of melbourne i hated the look of the later ones,so many memories tied to these old trams and trains.
Yes I know what you mean - everybody is wrapped up in Cottonwool these days, not given the chance to take any risks with the need to think for themselves. Nowadays when anything goes wrong, somebody else is to blame. Single deck red electric trains in Sydney were the same - Leave the doors open if you like. I have a photograph of a couple of teenage boys going home from school sitting on the floor centimetres away from the open doors. All that fun is gone now.
Yeah we did that as well,there wasnt much we didnt do but always stayed inside the train. Leaving the doors open on hot days was great air con,even the oldies liked it,now theres no fun or thrills its a different world,im glad i grew up back then i'd hate to be a young person these days@@tressteleg1
Standing and looking down out of the open doors going over the Merri/Rushall bridge was always fun among a few other bridges as well but that was definately a favourite@@tressteleg1
@@darrellgee1823 😃
Those old Hitachis bring back memories..
Yes, of tin boxes on wheels 😊
@@tressteleg1 Yep, all the creaking and stench of asbestos brakes in the summer.
I was more thinking of a sort of drumming effect inside like you might get in a shipping container on steel wheels 😄
@@CallMeMrX indeed they have potential if only they could do an overhaul of the Hitatchi's brakes by replacing them.
Love your videos mate ! Thanks
😊👍
Lack of underframe strengthening was always an issue with the Hitachi train sets. Carriages are not supposed to buckle in that manner, in an accident. The impact forces are supposed to be taken by the couplings between carriages and by the drivers cab.
So true. A train with a reasonable underframe would not collapse like than after a bit of a bang. The Comeng did not seem too bad, in the circumstances.
I like how don was wary of answering the hitting a car question 🤣
I can tell you that it was never fun hitting cars. But the Ws were less likely to suffer damage in a collision.
@@tressteleg1 look up the recent tram vs van crash in adelaide south australia.
The hostess with the mosttess and Brian Toldme.
I live in Preston. Great Market to
High Street 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Yes I think I had a look in it once.
My late grandfather drove trams for many years I think he retired in the late 80s just wondering if you knew him his name was Carmelo "Charlie" Guzzetta
didn’t start on the trams until late 1987, and if he was at Brunswick or South Melbourne, I did not hear his name. With about six other depots, I knew nobody there.
Sydney taking out their tram system is so tragic, we had over 300km of tracks
Unfortunately the replacement of trams with buses started with Paris where all trams were gone before 1940. London finished the deed in 1953 and most American cities were gone by the 1960s so unfortunately Sydney and other Australian cities besides Melbourne blindly followed suit.
One of my grandfathers was a Tram Conductor.
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I totally forgot about how tickets were 3+ hours with bonus hour.
Then scaled back to the current 2hr
When sold by conductors, bus drivers and maybe stations, the 3 hour ticket could be stretched. It guaranteed 3 full hours, so if you bought it a few minutes after the hour, it was clipped starting from the next full hour. And all you had to do was to start your ride before the last hour ended. Buy it at 10.03am, clipped 11am, good until 2pm, start last ride at 1:58 and if it is a long ride, get another hour out of it. Thus nearly 5 hours. Also buy after 6pm, ticket clipped 7pm, good to the end of service after midnight.
Only just caught up with this. I loved it Tressteleg1.
😊👍. Here is another in the series:
Trams & Trains in the News 2002-2015
ua-cam.com/video/Q9otiGdF2BY/v-deo.html
Those 2 old dears at the South Melbourne crash seem to be in every scene on and off the trams.
I suppose the various reporters thought them to be good for pulling on heartstrings/ratings. Or maybe stations share video clips more then we know.
The tram equivalent of gunzils.
with the new tram story
(This is my opinion after going to the Melbourne Tram Museum)
I think the (at the time) new trams are better for drivers as they actually have good seats but if the W classes had those seats then old would be better as standing in the cab of a W7 felt better to me with the handles instead of buttons and pedals
As a former driver of everything from vintage trams to B class, my opinion is that while it was fine standing and driving for a while, the seat was atrociously uncomfortable as it was too high above the floor. A footrest would have helped a lot. So I stood until my feet ached, then sat until my back ached, so stood again, etc…The modern trams were thus better although the original seats on Z and A class were quite basic. B class came with better seats.
I dont know the terminal velocity of a W class Tram, but I swear it was reached down the hill from the harp to childers st on route 48.
Memories of trams? plate glass windows, open middle sections with just a wooden plank to stop you falling out., compulsory smoking, ladies sections, 5 bells, transfer tickets, cow catchers at the front, arcing wires, italian crewed rescue trucks, time clocks that killed drivers and connies, Inspectors who inspected but never issued a fine,. old frank stopping the tram at the skinny dog so he could have a pot and he was the driver. Sadly he was hit by a car and died of injuries ourside the Hap one night., kindly conductors giving us ticket books so we could play trams at home. WW1 Diggers and their Widows having a special free travel medallion. Standing between the tracks as trams passed both ways, great times. Wooden seats, beautiful leather seats cut with knifes, stitched back together by saddle makers.
Connies who wouldnt bother to collect fares and Connies who were hell bent on getting every fare in a packed tram.
Drivers who were too drunk to drive back from the footy at Princess Park and on it goes.
Women with 4 kids and a pram being helped on and off by the Connie, riding the running boards.
My only bad memories are of an hourly service on sundays that was 50/50 to turn up.
And who could forget Skippy falling asleep and running off the end of the 48 at Nth Balwyn.
Friends in their car clock me doing 70 down the hill from Bell Street to Miller Street on the route 10, but the 48 hills were more impressive so they could have gone faster. I’m pleased you have all those other happy memories. It’s not like that any more.
I still think it’s a miracle no one was killed or seriously injured at the Syndal crash. And actually, I was just at Syndal today lol
Sometimes nobody is in the wrong place at the wrong time…
I wish Adelaide kept it's tram network, bloody SA Liberal(conservative)Government. Now the past and present Labor Government are re investing in the Adelaide Tram Network. Thanks for the upload, it was good to see Clive Robertson on a tram, loved his late evening News show.
Unfortunately from the 1930s, the English speaking world decided that replacing noisy old trams with ‘modern flexible buses’ was the way to go. In SA it was the
Liberals who scrapped the trams, Labor in NSW and 60+ years their successors continue their hate for trams. It is the Liberals in Qld that today hate trams and the Brisbane ‘Metro’ is no more than longer electric buses.
jennifer keyte pre-coke bottle! vintage jen
😊
That Gradient on the Down (Towards Glen Waverley from Melbourne) is VERY steep. Its lucky that the old Comengs can even still brake there. OF couse their brakes are different from the old Hitachi/Martin & king trains. I can understand why some of trhe older Silver sets, can have wonky brakes, being A mechanic for the Trams and Trains. The "Tram Depot Mechanics" that you used to see, when you were a Tram Driver or Conductor, We also do the Trains as well. And know the Signals, But for some supid reason beyond me, when My mum (who was a Tram Conductress at the time, thay sadly got rid of the connies) I arranged for her to move to the railways, as a Driver.... but she just could NOT understand the lights!. There was no Train Simulators on PC's back then. There is now, and sadly, she understands the lights now, but she is retired now. and has bad Arthritis in her hip. Everything else about her is ok. The Irony huh?
There’s no doubt that stopping at the bottom of that hill is a bit challenging, but I did it successfully at least once. See video link at the end of this.
The Comeng trains with Rheostatic braking would have no trouble stopping there, but earlier trains relying on just Westinghouse could easily get a clumsy driver into a lot of trouble. That’s probably what happened here. Are you on R10? I never heard of any maintenance or other crossover between trams and trains.
As for your mother, I don’t think any conductors were going to be sacked. They were offered either redundancy packages or transfer to other PTC positions. Despite all the videos I have added signal meanings to, most indicators I still can’t remember and refer to notes. Very complicated while Sydney obtains the same results in a way which anyone can easily understand.
Your mother should get her hip replaced ASAP. I did, and could not be better! I walked a 2 km round trip 6 days later, carrying a walking stick just in case I stumbled, which did not happen.
Sly Drives of Electric Trains. Melbourne, Sydney, London.
ua-cam.com/video/dR8gZ9tJeyI/v-deo.html
7:50 the ole Maglight which doubled as a baton before several fractured skulls led to their removal.
😊
came from youtube video sidebar recommend
That would explain why I am suddenly getting comments about this video posted a few years ago😊
excellent. my favourite part - 11:49 the connie with a good sense of humour and clive robertson showing what he did well. i thought you would have informed us about how the older trams didn't even supply seats for the drivers! on the perth abc news at 1900 on the 18th of march it had a report about the gap between platforms and sydney trains. it showed footage of people falling down to the tracks. i had a lot of trouble watching it. this is deadly serious. and it reported that such things happen 5 times a week. the authority stated that parents should supervise their kids. what if a parent has 3 kids and therefore not enough hands to hold all of them. or people texting while they enter the train because texting is more important. this is a serious design flaw that should have been addressed before the cars were allowed into service.
In fact the Ws did have seats, hinged from the rear cab door. It could be lowered to enable driving from a standing position.
Years ago around 1986 I dashed off a Sydney train at Strathfield and when hurrying to get on, missed my step an slipped between platform and train. A few people hauled me out very quickly. But certainly the gaps in places are much too wide, and today there is no reason for train floors often to be much higher than the platform height. And the train I slipped from was a red set, the widest trains of all. So the problem was nothing new.
@@tressteleg1 ,personal experience. omg! as for the trams, i was under the impression that some of the really old ones were made without seats? perhaps installed later.
Yes, In the very early days, trams did not have seats for the drivers. It varied from city to city, but some tramways place a hole in the cab floor into which a portable stool could be placed. Over the years, seating became less basic, not that Sydney got that far.
@@tressteleg1 My grandfather told me that the original thinking was that a seated driver might fall asleep...only years later was it figured out that a standing driver might tire sooner.
You don’t mention which city you are referring to, but of course I think it could have been the case in many places.
Thanks for the memories.
The Cowan disaster caused a kneejerk reaction where all tourist railways were halted for a year. This killed off the Mountain High railway which ran from Tumut to Batlow.
Yes. Rumours were that some idiot applied the handbrakes on one or more carriages to make 3801 work harder, but if so the culprit was never caught.
Some coverage of the 1990 tram blockade from an unusual little seen source. Mr Hicks a visiting fan from the US or Canada visited in January 1990. A bad time he lucked on for his Melbourne visit to ride trams, but filmed ordinary scenes that are now an historic record. One of quite a few vids on his channel :
ua-cam.com/video/9BLr5Mq2htk/v-deo.html
As you may have seen in the video, I was working the night that the trams were dumped in the city. I did not participate. I was so disgusted that I never took a single photo of the blockage, and want to forget it totally. However I also worked the afternoon and night that trams started being returned to their depots. THAT WAS A REAL ADVENTURE!
I remember Loui De Grigorio too. Good old times.
Those of us who lost 5 weeks pay over that pointless ‘fight’ to retains Connie’s have quite a different opinion of Lou!
Indeed. It was just union bullshit. They needed to get into the 90s and move on
Lou’s main concern of course would have been losing half the new membership, in other words, all the conductors from their books.
I didn't get the bit about "these German" trams. Trams were still made by Comeng at that time I thought.
I remember the Syndal wreckage could not be cleared until people had removed their cars from the car park and allow cranes to move in.
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They aren't meant to bend that way 😂 And it was one of the PAID WORKERS AT THE DEPOT WHO DID THE TRAMS
That one certainly bent. And what about paid tram workers??
Whilst it was probably no fun driving these old 'W' class trams when it was 4c but it's a misconception they were slow, once I had to do 65mph (108kmh) to overtake (undertake) one late one night down the hill on Glenferrie rd outside Scotch College in the 1970s.
They could easily keep up with the traffic. Where in Melb can you do 60kmh in peak times.?
The annoyance with them (more so as it is today on ALL trams) is the frequent stopping to pick up/drop off passengers, stopping traffic. Jeff, selling off our heritage for a fist full of dollars was not a good thing.!
Friends once clocked me doing 70 km/h down Gilbert Road West Preston but that was down a long continuous grade. But the fact of the matter is, climbing those grades was a completely different matter. On some of the steeper grades it’s doubtful whether 40 km/h could have been reached. All new trams simply ate hills and could keep up with or even go faster than general Road traffic. While peak hour traffic is slow, that is for only four or so hours per day. The rest of the time faster speeds are quite possible except where silly councils often unnecessarily keep them down to 40. Additionally idiot bosses have now limited W class to 30 or 35 km/h for safety reasons that are no longer valid, not that any speed is needed on the city circle route anyway.
Don’t get me wrong, it was a great privilege to be able to drive W‘s but the fact was they were past their time. I also chose a great time to be on the job and got to drive every type of passenger tram on the tramway including all the vintage trams except a few of the fourwheelers.
Great video. Thanks!
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What happened to Shane W2?
By 2008 it was stored at North Fitzroy (former) tram depot, then to Preston Workshops, Newport railway workshops and finally Bylands Tram Museum in 2019.
I remember Norm Cross at the Melbourne tram museum.
That sounds likely. I gather that Norm is still with us, but not so well these days.
Que Belleza 🤌 … 😂
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i love old news! gave you got any more?
Yes I have more but I am not sure how much.
Yooo these videos are Crazy cause I wasn't even born yet
See what you missed out on. Also see the 3 earlier videos in this series.
The first of the only 3 intercity derailments.
Thankyou
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Good work sir
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omg i am 22 again
ITS SO NICE TO SEE LESS DIVERSITY BACK THEN AND LESS TROUBLE IN AUSTRALIA
In some things, yes.
Years of the big hair
Now we know how Robust The Hitachi trains were. As robust as a wet paper bag.
@@DKS225 Looks that way after the crash. I never particularly liked those trains. They just seemed like tin boxes on rails. Although one is at Newport, there is no room for it inside and ongoing vandalism attacks will see it eventually too rotted to restore.
That and it is well known Clive Robertson loved trains given he worked on the railways before taking up journalism.
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are you a train driver too liek how do you do the drivers view?
I have driven trains unofficially around Sydney, Melbourne, and once in London. But that was a long time ago. A friend does the Melbourne clips for me.
You might enjoy this one.
Sly Drives of Electric Trains. Melbourne, Sydney, London.
ua-cam.com/video/dR8gZ9tJeyI/v-deo.html
ok thanks really much
Melbourne is smartest city in Australia now with Sydney spending billions of dollars to build short sections of tram lines when they already had an impressive network of tramlines all over the city and surrounding suburbs but scrapped it in favour of cars & Brisbane a short time later both cities choosing to bury the tracks instead of removing them and as such have all sorts of dramas when digging up the roads or replacing water mains . Makes you wonder why they don't just uncover them and use the original tracks, Queensland the smart state? Nope
Unfortunately from the 1930s, the entire English speaking world started scrapping their tramways and replacing them with “modern flexible diesel buses “ (as they described them). This trend took off especially from the 1950s and by the late 70s almost nothing was left. Some Melbourne tram fans told me the reason Melbourne survived was because the Country Party members of the coalition did not want to waste good money ‘upgrading’ City transport when such money would be better spent on farmers and the rural community. Smart or penny pinching? If you think Victoria is such a brilliant place, why did they rip down the overhead wires on the rail line to Gipsland, and why are they still running dirty diesel rail motors when other states are all using electric trains to the outer suburban areas? Have you ever smelt the stink and heard the noise in Southern Cross?
@@tressteleg1 huh? It's like, the deeer Park area that's diesel and the rest of the city is electric.
The line which runs south from Sunshine and joins the Geelong line just south of Werribee was built so that VLine trains could stay off tracks used by suburban trains. Thus the people of Deer Park etc are stuck with inferior rail motors.
Roger Pescott. Like you gave a stuff about public transport.
i think julian assange used to live near the tram depo there lol ;)
Is there anything good about the poor old Hitachi? They are the P76 of trains. Or the Edsel!
I suppose that they probably were reasonably reliable but somehow just came across as basic tin boxes on wheels.
Well, they replaced some of the Taits. I was a student at the Mordialloc Chelsea High School and we were told a Hitachi will be passing around morning recess. We all waited and nothing happened, however it arrived ten minutes later during History and the room empied to watch the train pass and the teacher “cracked it”.
Well they would have been new and exciting at the time.
Similarly when the first double deck carriages appeared in Sydney, the radio station I listened to announced when one would be coming through Wynyard station in the morning peak hour. So on my way to my office, I popped into the station and watched it come through. The XPT was also massive news when it was first released.
5:48 he wasn't all that wrong at all, the Democrats of all parties nearly won that by election.
And now the tram restaurants don't exsist anymore
Yarra used the excuse of “old and unsafe“, when, in my opinion, the real reason was “we could not be bothered with these any more“. Considering they are contractors, it is the tail wagging the government dog.
Clive Robinson was always a lecherous old sleeze. He never seems to stray too far in his thoughts about pretty girls.
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Hmmmmm
Brian Toldme.
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12:40
Wonder how and what Roberto is doing today
I have not heard of him for years. When on the job, he was sometimes my conductor.
annnnnnd did you ever find them????????
no?
im not supirsed?
melbs back in the days eh, lucky if you got to experience it i guess
It's still awesome.
2.52 the school boys had mullets lol
The officer @1:10 ☺
Bit of an incline coming into Syndal station. Be hard to stop a train In an emergency!.
It was a grade which certainly demands respect! Obviously the offending driver did not think so, to his regret.
@@tressteleg1 Enjoying seeing these ol' news stories. Thanks m8!
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