Speaking as a Gamedev with a good chunk of experience in European companies, I wish this was something we'd be more mindful over here. While I love and support using comparisons for a lot of stuff, they run the risk of overshadowing what the game we work on actually needs. I had several moments where folks used "Our comparison game has feature X, so we need feature X as well." Without understanding the reason for feature X being there in the first place. For example sacrificing a lot of the relaxing vibes of your puzzle game by forcing in a Portal style sassy voice, just because Portal had it.
That example sounds an awful lot like Viewfinder. Amazing game on a technical level, brought down by badly-written dialogue that really didn't need to be there.
That's definitely a problem I see a lot, everywhere from indies to AAA, lots of games tend to shoehorn in the same things because "that's what X game did, and they sold well" without stopping to consider if that mechanic/feature even makes sense in this context. Sakurai even has a video where he talks about questioning everything in your game, giving the example of jumping in a platformer.
Never try to be a carbon copy of another game. Add your own spin to it! This is why Etrian Odyssey's newer games aren't as fun as the older ones - they added too much fluff.
the bonfire respawning mechanic in Jedi: Fallen Order comes to mind. "Dark Souls did it, we should too." "Sir, is there an in-universe reason for this mechanic that makes any sense? Do we really need to do this?" "It's in Dark Souls so we need to do it too! C'mon dude, you wanna make money don't you?" =_= the fact that the Jedi games are so good in spite of this and the technical problems is a testament to the teams working on them
@@normalguycapI can see where that comparison comes into play, but the series' metroidvania games always hinged more on mobility and platforming than squaring off with and killing opponents to progress.
This is a problem that a lot of smaller indie games tend to run into. "It's like X-classic game" "it's inspired by Z-series!" then you look at the gameplay or screenshots and you're just like... ok? Why would I play this over the genuine thing? Be sure you're giving your game its OWN identity, or most people will pass on it, even if you're trying to evoke an older game/style intentionally. Shovel Knight, for example, takes influence from several places but still feels distinctly itself. Even with Stardew Valley, which wears its inspiration on its sleeve, wouldn't have taken off so much if all the marketing said was "it's just like the old Harvest Moon games"
Pizza Tower as well basically started out as a carbon-copy of Wario Land 4 and definitely didn't hide it, but over the years and years of development the game changed entirely to focus more on the speed and score attack and now plays almost nothing like Wario Land.
In the indie space there’s a strange issue where there are games made to be explicitly like other, bigger IPs as much as possible without infringing on copyright, and I think their audience tends to be different than other games- they’re specifically targeting people who played and loved the original, but have seen all its content and can’t get any more out of it. Those types of players want something that is almost identical but just has slight changes to the level design and mechanics so they can continue to get their fix of the genre/game. I don’t personally like it very much but obviously some people do as those types of games tend to sell fairly well.
This is 100% true. Seeing the next Metroidvania or the next Smash-type game in the indie market - in an market oversaturated with both genres - is the quickest way for me to stop paying attention to it.
@@RangoTheMercenary it's a reason why people have been using the term "platform fighter" instead of "Smash-type", it helps set it apart and treat it more like a genre than a set of clones. Games like Rivals of Aether and Slap City have a lot of charm and uniqueness that utilizes Smash DNA but sets them apart imo. Also I'd definitely argue that MetroidVania is more of a genre than a direct comparison, it's not like Metroid and Castlevania are very similar to begin with. Look at "roguelike", nobody sees a game called a roguelike and thinks "why not just play rogue"
"So, what's your boyfriend like?" "He kinda reminds me of Donkey Kong!" Well that's not something I ever expected to hear, let alone from Sakurai's own official UA-cam channel. 😂
Yep, and many games call themselves Rogue-likes even today, despite having almost nothing in common with 1985's Rogue. Good descriptions are hard to come by, I suppose.
My art professor once said the same thing to my class when it came to critiquing other people's art. He would tell people to avoid saying "this reminds me of..."
You should always think about what that art reminds you of because then you can think about what the inspiration for it was and how it does things differently.
So many indies need to see this. I can't tell you how many times I've seen "inspired by game X" or "akin to game Y" on Steam pages. It even sours me on games I like because that phrasing on a Store Description implies your game is just derivative.
Another thing worth touching on is that starting from the gate with a direct comparison may not always instill confidence to those you're pitching to. Nothing wrong with EVENTUALLY pointing towards your inspirations, but you can breadcrumb folks to temper expectations first. Like, instead of name-dropping, start with genre and playstyle first. And dont ever say "We want to make the next [mega franchise]!" unless you're absolutely sure that's what the folks listening are receptive to that pitch or you've legitimately cracked the code that no one else has.
Roguelikes are like Rogue and Metroidvanias are like Metroid and Castlevania. These terms lead to players feeling more confident in a purchase. Limbo is a platforming game that's dark and mysterious. It's also what lead to people buying Little Nightmares as the formula is similar but Little Nightmares adapted the concept into a 3D world with even scarier creatures. Super Mario Sunshine inspired Gears For Breakfast to make Hat in Time, but the devs went in a different direction which lead to A Hat in Time being way better in every way. The game flows better, but feels similar.
@@HauntakuTV The portmanteau genre names that borrow from established games are an interesting outlier because they often perfectly describe the playstyle, but it also pits games against the cream of the crop. I unfortunately don't know the solution to that problem, but an interesting counterexample is how we've gone from using the term "Smash Clone" to "Platform Fighter". The latter frees up games that take inspiration from Smash without being burdened by an unattainable comparison (it's hard to top a game series that created a whole entire sub-genre, even if you had the comparable roster to back it up).
I guess an interesting question is this. Dark Souls created a genre of games that, even now, Soulsborne games stray very little from. Eventually, enough Soulsborne game will be made such that one game can have the claim that it was overtly inspired by Dark Souls, but is its own thing. What would be a neutral way to refer to a Soulsborne especially given that its properties are not distillable into a snappy phrase (stuff like punishing yet fair combat, medieval/mystical locales, stories through item description/exploration/boss implications, grand stories about tragedies that result in a lot of battles with sad old men or sad old people, gray moral explorations)? Similarly, what is a neutral to refer to Roguelikes and Metroidvanias?
I notice that with a few indie games, devs will outright state in the store page what their game is inspired by. Often times it is for a spiritual successor to a long dormant franchise.
I’ve though about this deeply before. This extends to naming genres as well. People just go with the salient feature of a game to give it a genre, but those names are usually not exclusive enough from each other e.g. an adventure game could also be an action game, yet we understand “adventure” and “action” games as “separate” genres. But the nature of how language itself evolves, and the many dimensions in which you could evaluate a game, make it so that using just a few words would not describe your game accurately. The pitfalls of this approach may be that 1. As he said, people don’t play your game because they’ll go for the original or “better” one 2. It may unconsciously crush creativity because people may just go with what has been tried. You could describe the whole work in a lot of words, but that takes time to create and read, people may not read it, and it may not be structured enough to build something cool out of it. A better approach may be to simply describe a work in all of the dimensions that one can think, and by how much it fits that given category, e.g. speed of reaction required: 0.2, emotional engagement: 0.7, length of the whole experience: 0.1, collaborativeness: 1.0, etc. This could serve as a checklist for people to consider other dimensions of their product and should breed way more comprehensive and interesting experiences
0:17 This interaction is immediately hilarious 2:12 I appreciate that this includes Paper Mario 64, that was actually the first Nintendo game I took interest in, and that I played! The graphics still hold up today!
The idea of a woman having a boyfriend/husband that's like Donkey Kong probably means that he takes her to the top of buildings and throws barrels down for no reason
It's nice seeing Sakurai that even the same series has different fanbases, like Mario. Especially when it comes to Pokémon; there's your Hoenn babies, your genwunners, your Sinnoh stans, your Unova veterans; etc. Everyone has their own experience with Pokémon, as every series does.
Hoenn is my favourite region of Pokémon, Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphires are my favourite Pokémon games, hoenn Pokémon defienitily starters and legendaries are awesome and a playful characters May is most beautiest she's one of my reason why Pokémon advanced adventures, challenge, battle, Battle frontier and Battle dimension are my favourite seasons of Pokémon an anime. Hoenn games and anime are best. ❤
Genwunners aren’t real fans tho they are too narrow minded The fans of the other regions they may favor that region but they still enjoy the other ones genwunners aren’t like that
@@madnessarcade7447 If you think that Kanto is the best region in all of Pokemon, you're sorely mistaken. Later games in the series improved the formula and monster designs. The new games just feel a bit messy in some parts but 3 steps forward one step back is still taking 2 steps forward.
This makes me think of the story when Bandai was trying to make a spin off series of Tamagochi that would appeal more to boys than girls. The original idea was that it was going to be a virtual pet that have character designs very similar to Tamagochi (small cute chibi mascots) where the main selling point was a battle system based of elements like fire, water, electric and so on. When they showed this to the higher ups at Bandai, they said, "This is good, but we can't make this. It has already been done by someone else and that someone else is called POKÉMON." So everything got scrapped and they started back from the ground up. They made the V-Pet square shaped so it would look like a cage, the character designs would be focused more on dinosaurs and monsters that would be drawn in similar style to American comics and instead of elements, there would be Vaccine, Data & Virus to give it more cyberspace feel as the monsters were meant to be computer viruses that learned to talk and think. The only issue they ran into was name for the V-Pet as they wanted to avoid using the word "Mon" out of fear of getting sued by Gamefreak & Nintendo, but being unable to come up with anything else that sounded good to everyone, they ended using the 'Mon' part for the final name for the V-pet toy. Now days, that V-pet toy is called "Digital Monsters", or Digimon for short.
...i thought Digimon predated Pokémon. Interesting story. Curiously enough, using the -mon did prompt endless comparisons. I know everyone around thought Digimon was a Pokemon ripoff at first.
@@Eichro Digimon did arrive to America before Pokémon so that might be where you got that from. (translate text in a V-pet take less time than doing the same in a Gameboy JRPG)
@@EichroHilarious thing is that neither of them even started the monster collecting genre. There were already lots of games like that before the big boom.
One type of comparison I think is worth mentioning yourself is when a game has a specific mechanic you would like to develop a game around, for example, let's say there is a mining game with 3 mechanics: getting the minerals, exploring the caves, and selling the minerals you get, and the main one is about getting the minerals while the other 2 are afterthoughts, you may say "I want the fundamental mechanic to be about selling the minerals, this is how we start, but these are the ways in which we can expand the concept and make it more engaging", after all, you are explaining why your idea can be better while at the same time matching sure people understand why it won't compete with the game you compare it to.
I appreciate that this channel isn't just game design principles but really a top to bottom look at developing a game, from pitching to management as well.
Its interesting to think of how comparison wrecks or helps games overall. Games like Multiverses and NASB fail since they only live as a comparison to Smash Bros, while games like Skyrim or Zelda live on based on their unique identities despite being very similar games to each-other in every way
I didnt expect to get this video in my recommended but its actually very helpful! Your game has your own style and mechanics, and having something thats from game x or from game s without understanding its context on why that works can make your game just look like its throwing a bunch of things around
Love this one because I teach game students and I get them to learn how to pitch new game concepts as part of their assignments. Throughout the course I have to aggressively break them out of using comparisons to other things when they are describing their ideas. Students love doing this and it's hard to break them out of saying their game is like whatever game when describing it. Not only is it not good for the reasons that Sakurai described, but also if you have never heard of or played that game they're describing, it means absolutely nothing to you. There are too many games and nobody can play all of them. Telling me a game is like "Thief" falls flat if I've never played that game or have a form of reference to it and is often just a lazy shortcut to actually explaining the game competently. Additionally, the "money people" you end up pitching to may not actually be "games people" or super knowledgeable about games either so I have to train them to NOT use that as a crutch and actually explain their concepts fully and don't sound like a crazy person. They definitely improve on that over time after feeling my wrath on that point. The only comparison I let them get away with is when they fully describe their concepts, but use screenshots from comparable things as a reference to visualize it as that does help their pitches.
this is a good piece of advice that indie devs and game journalists BADLY need to learn i think there's no worse way to market a game to me as saying some bullshit like, "nier automata meets bioshock meets dishonored", any interest i might've had is diminished almost instantly, it's way too vague and says basically nothing about what the game actually is
It reminds that The Last of Us never advertize itself as "a zombie game" even though the Clickers are for the most part zombies but with a different name.
I haven't started my journey as a developer yet, but this advice is VITALLY IMPORTANT to take because I've been stressed out about my own sense of originality when I see other games coincidentally have the same idea or concept I thought up, just focus on what you know.
At the same time, what are the odds of someone making the exact same thing you're thinking of? For example, the game I'm trying to make is basically two others I love, tossed in a blender, but anyone else out there who could be doing that may favor other aspects of them that I don't value as much, personally.
@@Big-Mic7878No one said no new Smash entries are coming. In fact most people think they ARE making one just because ITS ONE of their most popular franchises (but without Sakurai, he never said that the series was over, just that HE was not going to be part of it anymore). Like yeah Mario Kart 8 is crazy good, from it's start to now with all the DLC released, why make another one?. Because they have to, it's literally the most selling game of Nintendo, they *can't afford TO NOT have Mario Kart up to date* , it happens the same but in a less degree for Smash titles, hence why it shouldn't be strange to have a new one sooner or later.
I really love what the editors do to convey what Sakurai-sense wants to say 😁 But true, it's hard to don't go the easy route and say "it looks like Metroid and Castlevania". It really ruins the experience. Better to allow others to make the paralelism and just focus on your product, even if you draw from formulas already done in the past and ignore what other games had in theirs like the flail of Castlevania or the map and locked door system to partition the stage Metroid had.
This is probably one of my favourite Topics Sakurai has talked about so far, as it makes me think of these Games that advertise themselves as "inspired by this other classic Game!" but then end up just BEING said Classic simply "disguised" as a new IP. Like, take Bug Fables for example. That Game couldn't any more blatantly be just Paper Mario, which always makes me think "at which point do we draw the line at being simply "Inspiration"" and being an actual Copycat instead?"
That's a good question, but for some games it's actually the core selling point. Serving a niche that hasn't been supported for ages. If Paper Mario would've stick to its roots, Bug Fables wouldn't be a thing most likely. Same goes for all the indie Mentroidvanias. The recent upraise of pokemon clones. Yokai-Lalee and WarGroove.... They respond to a shouting fan base that really just wants more of the same, but won't get that from the original developers. But to extend on your point, I also think similar about most fangames that received 'cease and desist' warnings. I'm no expert in copy right, but if all the problems come from using the name/grafics/music of other titles, why don't they just replace it? Or are the devs of for example 'Uranium' admitting that their game is nothing without the nostalgia bait?
An interesting example to use, because arguably Bug Fables is trying to be what Paper Mario WAS, not what it actually now is. It is attempting to be almost a replacement for an IP that no longer resembles the characteristics that Bug Fables is using to resemble said IP, besides visuals.
In Bug Fables' defense, they yoink Paper Mario's ENTIRE style, but not it's *content.* Also, the 3-character party/Turn Relay help it stand out. There's a whole new set of badges, unique enemies which fit into the game's world, and where exactly do you find FIVE DIFFERENT SUPERBOSSES in the same Paper Mario game? One of them's even themed around the Golden enemy.
@@MrNovascardidn't some revivals like Metroid doing the one-two punch of the Samus Return remake and Dread being finished come to be as a direct result of the indie copycats proving the market existed?
@@wouterW24 I wouldn't rule it out. But some interviews state that Nintendo always intended to make more Metroid. They just could not meet their own expectations. One states, back then when the N64 came out, they wanted to bring Metroid into 3D as well. They said it just didn't feel like Metroid. And 2D Metroid seemed to go trough a similar story. Dread was planned for the DS and got canceled, but but got revisited many years later, hoping the superior hardware of the 3DS would help. It didn't. It took a new promising studio to save both 2D and 3D Metroid. Retro Studio and Mercury Steam. At least thats what I recall.
You know, I recently came across an artist telling their followers not to compare her own or anyone else's art to someone else's, calling it "rude" and just not a good thing to do. I tried to be respectful about it, but I also added that I don't think there's anything wrong with general comparisons, or people expressing that their work reminds them of something else (you know, so long as they don't outright accuse theft or ripping someone else off, of course). The way I see it, humanity has been creating art for so long and we all internalize the art we grow up with to the point where it influences us on a subconscious level. I don't want to outright say that all works of art are iterative, but that intentional or not, iterative works of art, be the drawings, writing, gameplay, what have you, are unavoidable in this day and age, and quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with that, at least not inherently. Still, I totally understand how demeaning it can be to have your work compared to something else and have it be overshadowed as a result, so I'll try to be more careful about it.
I'd say it's pretty healthy for a game to be compared to similar games as familiarity means that the player can easily understand that game and has a higher chance of buying it. Like, if someone enjoyed Fire Emblem then they'd probably love Disgaea too.
Both are completely different games with different strengths and weaknesses but they look close enough gameplaywise. Personally, I like Disgaea more than Fire Emblem because Disgaea has more variety and turns are quicker as well as the attacks being generally cooler.
I think it depends on HOW you compare it. Comparisons aren't necessarily bad, as many people who "could just play the original" already HAVE played the original; they want something new just like it. I think more descriptive comparisons are best, like "It's like the gameplay of Kid Icarus: Uprising meets the world design of Xenoblade". You're comparing your idea to other games, sure, but it shows that you have specifics in mind and at least you're doing something unique by pairing two things to create something different from both. Granted, this might also be the difference in pitching to investors and pitching to consumers. Different parties might want to hear different things when it comes to a pitch about your idea, so doing a little research on who your audiences are would probably go a long way.
@@JHamron Unfortunately none that I know of as of right now lmao If I eventually ever get into game design for my OC's and characters though, this is what I'd want that game to be!!
The one that annoys me the most is when gaming websites are talking about a new indie game and go "It's just like EarthBound 🤪" No, it's not "just like EarthBound" because you play as kids or because it has more than 3 jokes in it or because it takes place in a setting that's not medieval fantasy.
Not that it matters, but long-hiatused and possibly canceled Oddity/Mother 4 is also literally trying to be like Earthbound, but it too has enough to not be Earthbound.
If I want to compare my project to a pre-existing game, it will have to be one that falls under a number of categories, such as not having its playerbase niche filled in current time (despite the niche being immensely popular within the community, such as heroic dragons as protagonists in a story driven game with fluid combat if you want the short version), the project fell short due to low budget and rushed development, has so few copies left in the world, and is not being made available and so may need a spiritual successor in order to provide what that inspirational source could have been. Though the description for the project itself is purely its own thing, it would make those who feel left out very happy that they finally have a game to look forward to, and a complete one at that.
I've actually heard the opposite advice when pitching a script, I've heard that all producers want to hear are "it's like a cross between (x movie) and (y movie)!" They just want the essence of it in as little time as possible (aka "elevator pitch." A pitch so short that you can tell them the whole thing before they reach their floor on the elevator. )
I took a screenwriting class b4, and i heard the same thing. Perhaps the culture around film and other watchables lends itself more towards that style of pitching, or it just developed that way in the west. It also probably helps that film is less interactive than games, so u can convey more with less nuance...maybe. Thats just a guess on my end honestly lol
This is true for writing books as well. I think part of it is the difference between pitching to potential readers/players/viewers vs. pitching to a producer or studio. Also, it helps to be specific even with those elevator pitches because of what Sakurai said. When you say “it's like Star Wars meets The Lord of the Rings,” what does that mean? Everyone is going to have different ideas about what that means unless you say something more specific like “The setting of Star Wars meets the worldbuilding of LOTR.” That's a way to explain what's interesting about your project while still being quick enough for an elevator pitch.
I think the big difference here is that by using two points of comparison and not just one, you're inherently differentiating between both, especially if you're specific about what parts of "x" and what parts of "y" you're combining. I think what Sakurai is talking about here is stuff like "This will be the next Mario" or "This will be the Halo-Killer" that's happened often in the industry
Being unique is difficult, and that goes for any form of media. But trying your best to be different will make you feel reassured that you aren't wasting your time on something similar to a thing that already exists.
another commenter mentioned it, but that might mostly apply to Japanese devs...cause here in America, Studios love copying stuff, especially if its successful. Look at movies, TV shows, etc.
Most of my tendencies in comparison are to not say "Game X did this so this game should too" , but more like "Game X did this so bad that is self sabotaged the whole experience" which logically IMO, a comparison that only endeavors to prevent a feature you know doesn't work in order to encourage a number of other possibilities should be more consistently useful long term than the alternative method of using comparison to pinhole the project into a design that *might* work. How else can iteration be possible if not by making comparisons to highlight flaws you are specifically trying to solve with your own original ideas?
Honestly, im suprised Sakurai still hasn't talked about how licensing works in the Video Game Industry. It's a very crucial part when wanting to go through the process on bringing in Guest Characters into Fighting Games, and what their chances are on coming back to the next sequel. Hopefully Sakurai will make that video before the next smash game comes out, lol.
I've seen this before where people make comparions, but usually it's like one minor detail in a game and it's immediately like another more popular games, this was specially noticeable in the old times due to console limitations, when Outrun came out, every time a new racing game came out using a similar style to outrun, it was immediately compared to outrun. One such exemple were the Lotus games, nevermind Lotus II having a track creator for instance people looked at the game play and they're immediately like "It's just outrun with a different name" no, no it clearly isn't.
Like old FPS games being called Doom-like before the "FPS" term existed, or the "Metrovania" term that's still used to this day. May be unintentional, but those are a bit unfair to the new games that could be drastically different.
On that point of comparisons being vague, anything used to describe a game can be unnecessarily vague. Genres only give a vague idea of what you're going to play: Rogue-like could refer to a rogue-lite, which could be any variation on the roguelike genre. Platformers could refer to methodical precision platformers, exploration-based metroidvanias or a speed-based gauntlet (Not to mention that 2D and 3D multiply the amount of subgenres) Secondly, the feel of a game can also be vague. If a game is speed-based, does that mean that it's a combo-heavy fighting game, does it mean that it's a platformer that requires fast reactions or does that mean that it's an open world game that uses its large size in comparison to its player character to show speed as terrain disappearing? We're starting to run into a problem where we simply don't have the language to accurately describe the games we're making.
The first counter argument that comes to mind are games that are designed to be spiritual successors. Stuff like Yooka-Laylee or DoubleShake specifically rely on their inspirations to be a draw FOR people buying the game, usually because Banjo-Kazooie or Mischief Makers havent had any successors in such a long time that people might want something new in the same style. However, these games also tend to go to Kickstarter, and also make it VERY clear what games they are taking inspiration from. Bloodstained was a Castlevania successor but they made it clear the gameplay was for Symphony of the Night; not just an vague "Castlevania" thing.
The thing that makes it ok in those cases imo is the creators. It wasnt just that Yooka-Laylee was another Banjo it was the people who made Banjo making another game. And similarly it was Iga himself finally making another Iga-vania. At that point they dont have the same titles for legal reasons. But spiritually they are already all of a piece. People make the games, not the brand names after all.
This is one of the more difficult things to pull off, but I'll still keep this in mind. Also, I'm convinced you also made this so you can show the world your Donkey Kong gijinka design.
I must admit I'm mentioning the old Final fantasys and octopath travler in my gamedoc. but I'm working on a detailed storyboard anyways and the only person that might need to see it at this point knows what I'm talking about.
Comparisons might be a good starting point, but we often forget how selective we are when making a comparison. At first, it seems like a helpful shortcut in communication, but then you need to start adding qualifiers. “It’s like X, but with Y and without Z.” The more qualifiers you need to add, the more simple it might have been to start from scratch and build up to a complete picture. This is important to keep in mind, not just for game proposals, but communication in general.
As someone whose done tons at Nintendo, who thrive off creating creative titles consoles, and peripheral to a near obtuse degree, it makes sense for Sakurai to say not to make comparisons, especially since a lot of marketing tends to go for the comparison route. I make the mistake doing this describing games to friends, but it does depend on that demographic to convey such examples. Maybe a fully detailed description might hinder conversation, but it’s probably better than the alternative. Once again l, Sakurai w/ words of wisdom
This video came at the perfect time as I am planning to create a Kickstarter. However, I am not sure how much I was going to compare to other games. Instead, I was going to mention music I liked and maybe games that I liked to convey what I might add into the project. But maybe I should avoid that or at least point to specific songs if possible. I do really want to mention a game or two that needs more attention.
Such simple yet profound mindset...✨ I notice a lot of Nintendo games in the Direct presentations use this mindset, that they explain the game itself and novelty of the gameplay and how it works without comparing the game to other games in the genre - they focus entirely on the experience itself. I really like that idea! Also I think there can be a healthy way to make and use comparisons - they can be nice when we're brainstorming for ourselves of new ideas and how existing games are similar and different without like judging for the sake of judgement. If that makes sense, Idk
Honestly I feel like that’s happening right now with platform fighters such as nick all star brawl and multiversus People label them as “smash killers” and when the games don’t live up to the hype or play the same, they often end up dead on arrival
I agree but also think it is nearly impossible to not do so. The way people form mental images about things is through relationships. Having nothing to compare it to makes it more difficult to comprehend and explain. I would also say that comparing to other things gives you an ability to improve upon the formula and learn from the mistakes of others. Competitive intelligence and analysis let's you quickly close gaps instead of stumbling around in completely uncharted territories. I tried to avoid comparisons with my game but then we often just did multiple failed prototypes since we weren't learning why other people did it differently until we failed in the same way. Could have saved a lot of time and headaches by starting with more familiar things and comparisons instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.
First thing that comes to mind is roguelikes. You can have inspiration, but most roguelikes are nothing like Rogue at all, so there's really no harm in that comparison unless you're extremely nitpicky.
I think this sentiment is important for anyone trying to make a spiritual successor to an already existing franchise, as developing with the mindset of "I'm going to make another Chrono Trigger...but without the setting or characters of Chrono Trigger!", then the project becomes a soulless knockoff that feels artificial and like it was duct taped together. Bug Fables is an example of a spiritual successor handled the right way. It drew clear inspiration from the Paper Mario franchise, but the setting and characters were uniquely designed and offer an adventure that feels like no other Paper Mario title. Rather than making a ripoff Paper Mario adventure, they chose to give players the experience of being a sentient pair of bugs exploring the kind of "world" found in someone's backyard and meeting a variety of bugs with strange personalities and physical qualities that resemble their real world counterparts.
![Name Files Logically [Programming & Tech]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XMzR5mJHPDg/mqdefault.jpg)
![Name Files Logically [Programming & Tech]](/img/tr.png)
![Making Sequels [Planning & Game Design]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/plPR6-Gqemc/mqdefault.jpg)
![How I Stuck With My Column [Work Ethic]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ff7HadWHTJo/mqdefault.jpg)
![Development Secrets of the Original Kirby [Grab Bag]](/img/n.gif)
I never thought I'd see the day where Leon S. Kennedy became a Donkey Kong-lookalike boyfriend caricature in a Masahiro Sakurai video
Leon's gorilla power surpassed Chris's.
@@palecat5005that's why Chris wants him to continue the bloodline
Someone must've unlocked DK Mode
@@ovensmuggler5207Why doesn't Chris just continue the bloodline himself
@@milesedgeworth132 because he wants to be an uncle
Speaking as a Gamedev with a good chunk of experience in European companies, I wish this was something we'd be more mindful over here.
While I love and support using comparisons for a lot of stuff, they run the risk of overshadowing what the game we work on actually needs.
I had several moments where folks used "Our comparison game has feature X, so we need feature X as well." Without understanding the reason for feature X being there in the first place.
For example sacrificing a lot of the relaxing vibes of your puzzle game by forcing in a Portal style sassy voice, just because Portal had it.
That example sounds an awful lot like Viewfinder. Amazing game on a technical level, brought down by badly-written dialogue that really didn't need to be there.
That's definitely a problem I see a lot, everywhere from indies to AAA, lots of games tend to shoehorn in the same things because "that's what X game did, and they sold well" without stopping to consider if that mechanic/feature even makes sense in this context. Sakurai even has a video where he talks about questioning everything in your game, giving the example of jumping in a platformer.
Never try to be a carbon copy of another game. Add your own spin to it! This is why Etrian Odyssey's newer games aren't as fun as the older ones - they added too much fluff.
It's the photo game isn't it?
the bonfire respawning mechanic in Jedi: Fallen Order comes to mind. "Dark Souls did it, we should too."
"Sir, is there an in-universe reason for this mechanic that makes any sense? Do we really need to do this?"
"It's in Dark Souls so we need to do it too! C'mon dude, you wanna make money don't you?"
=_= the fact that the Jedi games are so good in spite of this and the technical problems is a testament to the teams working on them
describing your boyfriend as donkey kong is one of the funniest things i've seen all week at least
Comparison is truly the Dark Souls of communication...
Comparison is the elden ring of game reviews
Sakurai is truly the Bob Ross of gamedev...
@@normalguycapthe ps2 castlevanias were that dark souls doesnt even have (much) platformimg
@@normalguycapI can see where that comparison comes into play, but the series' metroidvania games always hinged more on mobility and platforming than squaring off with and killing opponents to progress.
2010s: Compare other games to Dark Souls.
2020s: Compare real life to Dark Souls.
Next episode: Sakurai sharing dating advice ❤️
Would watch
Competitive smash players would sooo need that
His advice "become japanese with genes that make you look young even though you are fifty"
How can I land the Donkey Kong guy
@@DaakkuuYRS not convinced japanese people don't age backwards
Truly this is the Dark Souls of Sakurai's game development advice
0:18 This scene has no right to be this funny.
"He kinda reminds me of Donkey Kong!" 💀💀💀💀
This is a problem that a lot of smaller indie games tend to run into. "It's like X-classic game" "it's inspired by Z-series!" then you look at the gameplay or screenshots and you're just like... ok? Why would I play this over the genuine thing? Be sure you're giving your game its OWN identity, or most people will pass on it, even if you're trying to evoke an older game/style intentionally. Shovel Knight, for example, takes influence from several places but still feels distinctly itself. Even with Stardew Valley, which wears its inspiration on its sleeve, wouldn't have taken off so much if all the marketing said was "it's just like the old Harvest Moon games"
Pizza Tower as well basically started out as a carbon-copy of Wario Land 4 and definitely didn't hide it, but over the years and years of development the game changed entirely to focus more on the speed and score attack and now plays almost nothing like Wario Land.
In the indie space there’s a strange issue where there are games made to be explicitly like other, bigger IPs as much as possible without infringing on copyright, and I think their audience tends to be different than other games- they’re specifically targeting people who played and loved the original, but have seen all its content and can’t get any more out of it. Those types of players want something that is almost identical but just has slight changes to the level design and mechanics so they can continue to get their fix of the genre/game. I don’t personally like it very much but obviously some people do as those types of games tend to sell fairly well.
Comparison can be healthy for a game. If a game is a safe bet for the player, then they'll be more likely to buy it.
This is 100% true. Seeing the next Metroidvania or the next Smash-type game in the indie market - in an market oversaturated with both genres - is the quickest way for me to stop paying attention to it.
@@RangoTheMercenary it's a reason why people have been using the term "platform fighter" instead of "Smash-type", it helps set it apart and treat it more like a genre than a set of clones. Games like Rivals of Aether and Slap City have a lot of charm and uniqueness that utilizes Smash DNA but sets them apart imo. Also I'd definitely argue that MetroidVania is more of a genre than a direct comparison, it's not like Metroid and Castlevania are very similar to begin with. Look at "roguelike", nobody sees a game called a roguelike and thinks "why not just play rogue"
I wasnt ready for the Donkey Kong joke
"So, what's your boyfriend like?" "He kinda reminds me of Donkey Kong!" Well that's not something I ever expected to hear, let alone from Sakurai's own official UA-cam channel. 😂
Something, something, coconut cream pie...
Thinking back to when every first person shooter was a "Doom Clone"
Yep, and many games call themselves Rogue-likes even today, despite having almost nothing in common with 1985's Rogue.
Good descriptions are hard to come by, I suppose.
Any top down action rpg still called zelda clone until now. Except if u have very differ mechanics like pokemon
They were only Doom Clones until they became "Halo Killers" 😆
Then for a while we had games that were GTA Clones and WOW Killers.
This video is definitely the Dark Souls of Video Game Development tips
My art professor once said the same thing to my class when it came to critiquing other people's art. He would tell people to avoid saying "this reminds me of..."
You should always think about what that art reminds you of because then you can think about what the inspiration for it was and how it does things differently.
What it if reminds you of something that isn't a specific artwork? Like, "this reminds me of a personal experience"?
That boyfriend certainly was very donkey kong-like
this is a HUGE one that I feel a lot of indie game developers fail at
So many indies need to see this. I can't tell you how many times I've seen "inspired by game X" or "akin to game Y" on Steam pages. It even sours me on games I like because that phrasing on a Store Description implies your game is just derivative.
Another thing worth touching on is that starting from the gate with a direct comparison may not always instill confidence to those you're pitching to.
Nothing wrong with EVENTUALLY pointing towards your inspirations, but you can breadcrumb folks to temper expectations first. Like, instead of name-dropping, start with genre and playstyle first.
And dont ever say "We want to make the next [mega franchise]!" unless you're absolutely sure that's what the folks listening are receptive to that pitch or you've legitimately cracked the code that no one else has.
Roguelikes are like Rogue and Metroidvanias are like Metroid and Castlevania. These terms lead to players feeling more confident in a purchase. Limbo is a platforming game that's dark and mysterious. It's also what lead to people buying Little Nightmares as the formula is similar but Little Nightmares adapted the concept into a 3D world with even scarier creatures. Super Mario Sunshine inspired Gears For Breakfast to make Hat in Time, but the devs went in a different direction which lead to A Hat in Time being way better in every way. The game flows better, but feels similar.
@@HauntakuTV The portmanteau genre names that borrow from established games are an interesting outlier because they often perfectly describe the playstyle, but it also pits games against the cream of the crop.
I unfortunately don't know the solution to that problem, but an interesting counterexample is how we've gone from using the term "Smash Clone" to "Platform Fighter". The latter frees up games that take inspiration from Smash without being burdened by an unattainable comparison (it's hard to top a game series that created a whole entire sub-genre, even if you had the comparable roster to back it up).
I guess an interesting question is this. Dark Souls created a genre of games that, even now, Soulsborne games stray very little from. Eventually, enough Soulsborne game will be made such that one game can have the claim that it was overtly inspired by Dark Souls, but is its own thing. What would be a neutral way to refer to a Soulsborne especially given that its properties are not distillable into a snappy phrase (stuff like punishing yet fair combat, medieval/mystical locales, stories through item description/exploration/boss implications, grand stories about tragedies that result in a lot of battles with sad old men or sad old people, gray moral explorations)?
Similarly, what is a neutral to refer to Roguelikes and Metroidvanias?
This is the Dark Souls of game design advice.
This man just pinpointed the whole "soulslike" issue.
"Comparing to another title will just make people want to play the original"
Exactly the reason why I have no need playing Lies Of P.
I notice that with a few indie games, devs will outright state in the store page what their game is inspired by.
Often times it is for a spiritual successor to a long dormant franchise.
Usually, it is some short list of games like Chrono Trigger, Earthbound/Mother and Final Fantasy Tactics and usually they have a very non-retro vibe.
I’ve though about this deeply before. This extends to naming genres as well. People just go with the salient feature of a game to give it a genre, but those names are usually not exclusive enough from each other e.g. an adventure game could also be an action game, yet we understand “adventure” and “action” games as “separate” genres. But the nature of how language itself evolves, and the many dimensions in which you could evaluate a game, make it so that using just a few words would not describe your game accurately. The pitfalls of this approach may be that 1. As he said, people don’t play your game because they’ll go for the original or “better” one 2. It may unconsciously crush creativity because people may just go with what has been tried. You could describe the whole work in a lot of words, but that takes time to create and read, people may not read it, and it may not be structured enough to build something cool out of it. A better approach may be to simply describe a work in all of the dimensions that one can think, and by how much it fits that given category, e.g. speed of reaction required: 0.2, emotional engagement: 0.7, length of the whole experience: 0.1, collaborativeness: 1.0, etc. This could serve as a checklist for people to consider other dimensions of their product and should breed way more comprehensive and interesting experiences
0:17 This interaction is immediately hilarious
2:12 I appreciate that this includes Paper Mario 64, that was actually the first Nintendo game I took interest in, and that I played! The graphics still hold up today!
The idea of a woman having a boyfriend/husband that's like Donkey Kong probably means that he takes her to the top of buildings and throws barrels down for no reason
alternatively, she has a boyfriend who rides on the back of rhinos and swordfish in his spare time.
He sounds cool.
@@LakituAl He is one cool kong!
It's nice seeing Sakurai that even the same series has different fanbases, like Mario.
Especially when it comes to Pokémon; there's your Hoenn babies, your genwunners, your Sinnoh stans, your Unova veterans; etc. Everyone has their own experience with Pokémon, as every series does.
Hoenn is my favourite region of Pokémon, Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphires are my favourite Pokémon games, hoenn Pokémon defienitily starters and legendaries are awesome and a playful characters May is most beautiest she's one of my reason why Pokémon advanced adventures, challenge, battle, Battle frontier and Battle dimension are my favourite seasons of Pokémon an anime. Hoenn games and anime are best. ❤
I can't believe you forgot to mention Johto, the greatest generation of all. 😂
Genwunners aren’t real fans tho they are too narrow minded
The fans of the other regions they may favor that region but they still enjoy the other ones genwunners aren’t like that
Johto isn't even my personal favorite region and I still agree, best gen
@@madnessarcade7447 If you think that Kanto is the best region in all of Pokemon, you're sorely mistaken. Later games in the series improved the formula and monster designs. The new games just feel a bit messy in some parts but 3 steps forward one step back is still taking 2 steps forward.
This makes me think of the story when Bandai was trying to make a spin off series of Tamagochi that would appeal more to boys than girls.
The original idea was that it was going to be a virtual pet that have character designs very similar to Tamagochi (small cute chibi mascots) where the main selling point was a battle system based of elements like fire, water, electric and so on.
When they showed this to the higher ups at Bandai, they said, "This is good, but we can't make this. It has already been done by someone else and that someone else is called POKÉMON."
So everything got scrapped and they started back from the ground up.
They made the V-Pet square shaped so it would look like a cage, the character designs would be focused more on dinosaurs and monsters that would be drawn in similar style to American comics and instead of elements, there would be Vaccine, Data & Virus to give it more cyberspace feel as the monsters were meant to be computer viruses that learned to talk and think.
The only issue they ran into was name for the V-Pet as they wanted to avoid using the word "Mon" out of fear of getting sued by Gamefreak & Nintendo, but being unable to come up with anything else that sounded good to everyone, they ended using the 'Mon' part for the final name for the V-pet toy.
Now days, that V-pet toy is called "Digital Monsters", or Digimon for short.
I knew I'd read a story about Digimon after eyeing your avatar 😆Made my day 👌
...i thought Digimon predated Pokémon. Interesting story.
Curiously enough, using the -mon did prompt endless comparisons. I know everyone around thought Digimon was a Pokemon ripoff at first.
@@Eichro Digimon did arrive to America before Pokémon so that might be where you got that from. (translate text in a V-pet take less time than doing the same in a Gameboy JRPG)
@@EichroHilarious thing is that neither of them even started the monster collecting genre. There were already lots of games like that before the big boom.
Yeah dragon quest did it first. It's where Pokemon even got the idea for it.
Donkey Kong boyfriend........
"So, what's your boyfriend like ?"
"He kinda reminds me of Donke Kong"
"Oh, i see!"
"My boyfriend is like Donkey Kong, his coconut gun can fire in spurts"
"and shower me with coconut cream pies"
From my childhood to present days with Masahiro!
One type of comparison I think is worth mentioning yourself is when a game has a specific mechanic you would like to develop a game around, for example, let's say there is a mining game with 3 mechanics: getting the minerals, exploring the caves, and selling the minerals you get, and the main one is about getting the minerals while the other 2 are afterthoughts, you may say "I want the fundamental mechanic to be about selling the minerals, this is how we start, but these are the ways in which we can expand the concept and make it more engaging", after all, you are explaining why your idea can be better while at the same time matching sure people understand why it won't compete with the game you compare it to.
I appreciate that this channel isn't just game design principles but really a top to bottom look at developing a game, from pitching to management as well.
Based Sakurai telling people to stop calling every game “the Dark Souls of…”
"It's kinda like The Outfoxies!"
Its interesting to think of how comparison wrecks or helps games overall. Games like Multiverses and NASB fail since they only live as a comparison to Smash Bros, while games like Skyrim or Zelda live on based on their unique identities despite being very similar games to each-other in every way
Bruh, that shot of running over to "originality" is such a meme. 😂
Just saw it after reading your comment 😂
I didnt expect to get this video in my recommended but its actually very helpful! Your game has your own style and mechanics, and having something thats from game x or from game s without understanding its context on why that works can make your game just look like its throwing a bunch of things around
This is way more harder than you may think, but it's the best way. As a creator this is almost impossible to avoid
I doubt anyone who is likely to do it thinks it is an easy behavior change.
The elegant poke at farming games
Love this one because I teach game students and I get them to learn how to pitch new game concepts as part of their assignments. Throughout the course I have to aggressively break them out of using comparisons to other things when they are describing their ideas. Students love doing this and it's hard to break them out of saying their game is like whatever game when describing it. Not only is it not good for the reasons that Sakurai described, but also if you have never heard of or played that game they're describing, it means absolutely nothing to you. There are too many games and nobody can play all of them. Telling me a game is like "Thief" falls flat if I've never played that game or have a form of reference to it and is often just a lazy shortcut to actually explaining the game competently. Additionally, the "money people" you end up pitching to may not actually be "games people" or super knowledgeable about games either so I have to train them to NOT use that as a crutch and actually explain their concepts fully and don't sound like a crazy person. They definitely improve on that over time after feeling my wrath on that point. The only comparison I let them get away with is when they fully describe their concepts, but use screenshots from comparable things as a reference to visualize it as that does help their pitches.
this is a good piece of advice that indie devs and game journalists BADLY need to learn
i think there's no worse way to market a game to me as saying some bullshit like, "nier automata meets bioshock meets dishonored", any interest i might've had is diminished almost instantly, it's way too vague and says basically nothing about what the game actually is
It reminds that The Last of Us never advertize itself as "a zombie game" even though the Clickers are for the most part zombies but with a different name.
TLOU is just like L4D2
[FoamStars devs sweating profusely]
that "my boyfriend's like donkey kong" bit is exactly what i needed today
MY BOYFRIEND REMINDS ME OF DONKEY KONG
I haven't started my journey as a developer yet, but this advice is VITALLY IMPORTANT to take because I've been stressed out about my own sense of originality when I see other games coincidentally have the same idea or concept I thought up, just focus on what you know.
At the same time, what are the odds of someone making the exact same thing you're thinking of? For example, the game I'm trying to make is basically two others I love, tossed in a blender, but anyone else out there who could be doing that may favor other aspects of them that I don't value as much, personally.
Sakurai is looking more healthier. Glad he's getting rest!
Yep Yep and yet people still want a new smash [sign]😢
@@Big-Mic7878No one said no new Smash entries are coming.
In fact most people think they ARE making one just because ITS ONE of their most popular franchises (but without Sakurai, he never said that the series was over, just that HE was not going to be part of it anymore).
Like yeah Mario Kart 8 is crazy good, from it's start to now with all the DLC released, why make another one?.
Because they have to, it's literally the most selling game of Nintendo, they *can't afford TO NOT have Mario Kart up to date* , it happens the same but in a less degree for Smash titles, hence why it shouldn't be strange to have a new one sooner or later.
I really love what the editors do to convey what Sakurai-sense wants to say 😁
But true, it's hard to don't go the easy route and say "it looks like Metroid and Castlevania". It really ruins the experience. Better to allow others to make the paralelism and just focus on your product, even if you draw from formulas already done in the past and ignore what other games had in theirs like the flail of Castlevania or the map and locked door system to partition the stage Metroid had.
Hollowknight is a Metroidvania
Great to see Sakurai today, The wise words of wisdom
This is probably one of my favourite Topics Sakurai has talked about so far, as it makes me think of these Games that advertise themselves as "inspired by this other classic Game!" but then end up just BEING said Classic simply "disguised" as a new IP.
Like, take Bug Fables for example. That Game couldn't any more blatantly be just Paper Mario, which always makes me think "at which point do we draw the line at being simply "Inspiration"" and being an actual Copycat instead?"
That's a good question, but for some games it's actually the core selling point. Serving a niche that hasn't been supported for ages. If Paper Mario would've stick to its roots, Bug Fables wouldn't be a thing most likely. Same goes for all the indie Mentroidvanias. The recent upraise of pokemon clones. Yokai-Lalee and WarGroove.... They respond to a shouting fan base that really just wants more of the same, but won't get that from the original developers.
But to extend on your point, I also think similar about most fangames that received 'cease and desist' warnings. I'm no expert in copy right, but if all the problems come from using the name/grafics/music of other titles, why don't they just replace it? Or are the devs of for example 'Uranium' admitting that their game is nothing without the nostalgia bait?
An interesting example to use, because arguably Bug Fables is trying to be what Paper Mario WAS, not what it actually now is. It is attempting to be almost a replacement for an IP that no longer resembles the characteristics that Bug Fables is using to resemble said IP, besides visuals.
In Bug Fables' defense, they yoink Paper Mario's ENTIRE style, but not it's *content.* Also, the 3-character party/Turn Relay help it stand out.
There's a whole new set of badges, unique enemies which fit into the game's world, and where exactly do you find FIVE DIFFERENT SUPERBOSSES in the same Paper Mario game? One of them's even themed around the Golden enemy.
@@MrNovascardidn't some revivals like Metroid doing the one-two punch of the Samus Return remake and Dread being finished come to be as a direct result of the indie copycats proving the market existed?
@@wouterW24 I wouldn't rule it out. But some interviews state that Nintendo always intended to make more Metroid. They just could not meet their own expectations. One states, back then when the N64 came out, they wanted to bring Metroid into 3D as well. They said it just didn't feel like Metroid. And 2D Metroid seemed to go trough a similar story. Dread was planned for the DS and got canceled, but but got revisited many years later, hoping the superior hardware of the 3DS would help. It didn't.
It took a new promising studio to save both 2D and 3D Metroid. Retro Studio and Mercury Steam. At least thats what I recall.
This is the Dark Souls of video game development info series
You know, I recently came across an artist telling their followers not to compare her own or anyone else's art to someone else's, calling it "rude" and just not a good thing to do. I tried to be respectful about it, but I also added that I don't think there's anything wrong with general comparisons, or people expressing that their work reminds them of something else (you know, so long as they don't outright accuse theft or ripping someone else off, of course). The way I see it, humanity has been creating art for so long and we all internalize the art we grow up with to the point where it influences us on a subconscious level. I don't want to outright say that all works of art are iterative, but that intentional or not, iterative works of art, be the drawings, writing, gameplay, what have you, are unavoidable in this day and age, and quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with that, at least not inherently. Still, I totally understand how demeaning it can be to have your work compared to something else and have it be overshadowed as a result, so I'll try to be more careful about it.
It's actually pretty cool to have a game similar to another that plays completely differently.
I catch my self doing comparisons all the time.
Thank you for the insight Sakurai.
Well, now that i watched the video, Pizza Tower had no one to propose to but fans of a game with an small install base so there is that.
aw man, that guy's cake is way better than mine
I'd say it's pretty healthy for a game to be compared to similar games as familiarity means that the player can easily understand that game and has a higher chance of buying it. Like, if someone enjoyed Fire Emblem then they'd probably love Disgaea too.
Both are completely different games with different strengths and weaknesses but they look close enough gameplaywise. Personally, I like Disgaea more than Fire Emblem because Disgaea has more variety and turns are quicker as well as the attacks being generally cooler.
Just some great advice. People will inevitably compare, there's no need for you to put the idea in their head in the first place.
"My boyfriend reminds me of Donkey Kong!"
This video is also an elegant way to show why using temp music in any media generally falls flat. I wish more media execs understood this...
A lot of film composers have talked about this too, that they feel hemmed in by being told to make the music like the temporary tracks
I think it depends on HOW you compare it. Comparisons aren't necessarily bad, as many people who "could just play the original" already HAVE played the original; they want something new just like it. I think more descriptive comparisons are best, like "It's like the gameplay of Kid Icarus: Uprising meets the world design of Xenoblade". You're comparing your idea to other games, sure, but it shows that you have specifics in mind and at least you're doing something unique by pairing two things to create something different from both. Granted, this might also be the difference in pitching to investors and pitching to consumers. Different parties might want to hear different things when it comes to a pitch about your idea, so doing a little research on who your audiences are would probably go a long way.
"it's like Kid Icarus: Uprising with the world design of Xenoblade" what game are you referring to and how can I play it immediately
@@JHamron Unfortunately none that I know of as of right now lmao
If I eventually ever get into game design for my OC's and characters though, this is what I'd want that game to be!!
@@GenesisJames well, keep me up to date! I'll be the first to buy it!
The one that annoys me the most is when gaming websites are talking about a new indie game and go "It's just like EarthBound 🤪" No, it's not "just like EarthBound" because you play as kids or because it has more than 3 jokes in it or because it takes place in a setting that's not medieval fantasy.
SLARPG is literally just like Earthbound though.
Not that it matters, but long-hiatused and possibly canceled Oddity/Mother 4 is also literally trying to be like Earthbound, but it too has enough to not be Earthbound.
“Donkey Kong-like man” is not something I expected to see today.
If I want to compare my project to a pre-existing game, it will have to be one that falls under a number of categories, such as not having its playerbase niche filled in current time (despite the niche being immensely popular within the community, such as heroic dragons as protagonists in a story driven game with fluid combat if you want the short version), the project fell short due to low budget and rushed development, has so few copies left in the world, and is not being made available and so may need a spiritual successor in order to provide what that inspirational source could have been. Though the description for the project itself is purely its own thing, it would make those who feel left out very happy that they finally have a game to look forward to, and a complete one at that.
I've actually heard the opposite advice when pitching a script, I've heard that all producers want to hear are "it's like a cross between (x movie) and (y movie)!" They just want the essence of it in as little time as possible (aka "elevator pitch." A pitch so short that you can tell them the whole thing before they reach their floor on the elevator. )
I took a screenwriting class b4, and i heard the same thing. Perhaps the culture around film and other watchables lends itself more towards that style of pitching, or it just developed that way in the west. It also probably helps that film is less interactive than games, so u can convey more with less nuance...maybe. Thats just a guess on my end honestly lol
This is true for writing books as well. I think part of it is the difference between pitching to potential readers/players/viewers vs. pitching to a producer or studio.
Also, it helps to be specific even with those elevator pitches because of what Sakurai said. When you say “it's like Star Wars meets The Lord of the Rings,” what does that mean? Everyone is going to have different ideas about what that means unless you say something more specific like “The setting of Star Wars meets the worldbuilding of LOTR.”
That's a way to explain what's interesting about your project while still being quick enough for an elevator pitch.
The Lion King "live action" remake reminds me of cow manure
@@HauntakuTV I think that's true of all of Disney's recent output.
I think the big difference here is that by using two points of comparison and not just one, you're inherently differentiating between both, especially if you're specific about what parts of "x" and what parts of "y" you're combining. I think what Sakurai is talking about here is stuff like "This will be the next Mario" or "This will be the Halo-Killer" that's happened often in the industry
Very useful professional advice. For any ideas, even beyond game development
Only used comparison when sharing information! Great tips!
Being unique is difficult, and that goes for any form of media. But trying your best to be different will make you feel reassured that you aren't wasting your time on something similar to a thing that already exists.
You are wasting your time by being unique. Just do what you need for a satisfying game.
Huh this is actually solid advice. I can use this outside of game development even.
Ooh, I never thought comparison could harm a pitch. Nice!
another commenter mentioned it, but that might mostly apply to Japanese devs...cause here in America, Studios love copying stuff, especially if its successful. Look at movies, TV shows, etc.
@@normalguycapWe weren't privy to his original pitch though
Silent Hill proposal: It's like trauma.
Most of my tendencies in comparison are to not say "Game X did this so this game should too" , but more like "Game X did this so bad that is self sabotaged the whole experience" which logically IMO, a comparison that only endeavors to prevent a feature you know doesn't work in order to encourage a number of other possibilities should be more consistently useful long term than the alternative method of using comparison to pinhole the project into a design that *might* work.
How else can iteration be possible if not by making comparisons to highlight flaws you are specifically trying to solve with your own original ideas?
Honestly, im suprised Sakurai still hasn't talked about how licensing works in the Video Game Industry. It's a very crucial part when wanting to go through the process on bringing in Guest Characters into Fighting Games, and what their chances are on coming back to the next sequel. Hopefully Sakurai will make that video before the next smash game comes out, lol.
Cliffy B needed to hear this back in the Lawbreaker days.
I've seen this before where people make comparions, but usually it's like one minor detail in a game and it's immediately like another more popular games, this was specially noticeable in the old times due to console limitations, when Outrun came out, every time a new racing game came out using a similar style to outrun, it was immediately compared to outrun. One such exemple were the Lotus games, nevermind Lotus II having a track creator for instance people looked at the game play and they're immediately like "It's just outrun with a different name" no, no it clearly isn't.
Like old FPS games being called Doom-like before the "FPS" term existed, or the "Metrovania" term that's still used to this day. May be unintentional, but those are a bit unfair to the new games that could be drastically different.
@@PingerSurprise Familiarity is why people bought Nick All-Star Brawl
On that point of comparisons being vague, anything used to describe a game can be unnecessarily vague. Genres only give a vague idea of what you're going to play: Rogue-like could refer to a rogue-lite, which could be any variation on the roguelike genre. Platformers could refer to methodical precision platformers, exploration-based metroidvanias or a speed-based gauntlet (Not to mention that 2D and 3D multiply the amount of subgenres)
Secondly, the feel of a game can also be vague. If a game is speed-based, does that mean that it's a combo-heavy fighting game, does it mean that it's a platformer that requires fast reactions or does that mean that it's an open world game that uses its large size in comparison to its player character to show speed as terrain disappearing?
We're starting to run into a problem where we simply don't have the language to accurately describe the games we're making.
I'm giving a Shark Tank-style pitch today, and I'm using this video to make sure to avoid relying on comparison!
The first counter argument that comes to mind are games that are designed to be spiritual successors. Stuff like Yooka-Laylee or DoubleShake specifically rely on their inspirations to be a draw FOR people buying the game, usually because Banjo-Kazooie or Mischief Makers havent had any successors in such a long time that people might want something new in the same style. However, these games also tend to go to Kickstarter, and also make it VERY clear what games they are taking inspiration from. Bloodstained was a Castlevania successor but they made it clear the gameplay was for Symphony of the Night; not just an vague "Castlevania" thing.
The thing that makes it ok in those cases imo is the creators. It wasnt just that Yooka-Laylee was another Banjo it was the people who made Banjo making another game. And similarly it was Iga himself finally making another Iga-vania. At that point they dont have the same titles for legal reasons. But spiritually they are already all of a piece. People make the games, not the brand names after all.
This is one of the more difficult things to pull off, but I'll still keep this in mind.
Also, I'm convinced you also made this so you can show the world your Donkey Kong gijinka design.
"Soulslike" and "Metroidvania" are the clear examples of how we got too reliant on making comparisons xD
This is excellent advice for so many aspects of life. 👍
I must admit I'm mentioning the old Final fantasys and octopath travler in my gamedoc. but I'm working on a detailed storyboard anyways and the only person that might need to see it at this point knows what I'm talking about.
Sakurai truly is the Dark Souls of video game directors! ;)
“My boyfriend reminds me of Donkey Kong”😭
this right when the sonic director says they wanna pass mario that's funny
Comparisons might be a good starting point, but we often forget how selective we are when making a comparison. At first, it seems like a helpful shortcut in communication, but then you need to start adding qualifiers. “It’s like X, but with Y and without Z.” The more qualifiers you need to add, the more simple it might have been to start from scratch and build up to a complete picture.
This is important to keep in mind, not just for game proposals, but communication in general.
As someone whose done tons at Nintendo, who thrive off creating creative titles consoles, and peripheral to a near obtuse degree, it makes sense for Sakurai to say not to make comparisons, especially since a lot of marketing tends to go for the comparison route. I make the mistake doing this describing games to friends, but it does depend on that demographic to convey such examples. Maybe a fully detailed description might hinder conversation, but it’s probably better than the alternative.
Once again l, Sakurai w/ words of wisdom
The boyfriend is just Leon Kennedy with Donkey Kong's build lmao.
Dang, this is exactly what my editor has been drilling into me and everyone he tries to advise!
This video came at the perfect time as I am planning to create a Kickstarter. However, I am not sure how much I was going to compare to other games. Instead, I was going to mention music I liked and maybe games that I liked to convey what I might add into the project. But maybe I should avoid that or at least point to specific songs if possible. I do really want to mention a game or two that needs more attention.
The key points mentioned here are this video's equivalent to Stars or Jiggies.
The "cozy" farming games genre in a nutshell
amazing advice, thanks sakurai!
Such simple yet profound mindset...✨ I notice a lot of Nintendo games in the Direct presentations use this mindset, that they explain the game itself and novelty of the gameplay and how it works without comparing the game to other games in the genre - they focus entirely on the experience itself. I really like that idea!
Also I think there can be a healthy way to make and use comparisons - they can be nice when we're brainstorming for ourselves of new ideas and how existing games are similar and different without like judging for the sake of judgement. If that makes sense, Idk
Honestly I feel like that’s happening right now with platform fighters such as nick all star brawl and multiversus
People label them as “smash killers” and when the games don’t live up to the hype or play the same, they often end up dead on arrival
I agree but also think it is nearly impossible to not do so. The way people form mental images about things is through relationships. Having nothing to compare it to makes it more difficult to comprehend and explain.
I would also say that comparing to other things gives you an ability to improve upon the formula and learn from the mistakes of others.
Competitive intelligence and analysis let's you quickly close gaps instead of stumbling around in completely uncharted territories.
I tried to avoid comparisons with my game but then we often just did multiple failed prototypes since we weren't learning why other people did it differently until we failed in the same way. Could have saved a lot of time and headaches by starting with more familiar things and comparisons instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.
First thing that comes to mind is roguelikes. You can have inspiration, but most roguelikes are nothing like Rogue at all, so there's really no harm in that comparison unless you're extremely nitpicky.
shoutouts to the guy who thinks Paper Mario 64 when asked to Think Mario
That referencing RE4 to DKC... Omfg...
"So, what's your boyfriend like?"
"He kinda reminds me of Donkey Kong!"
_damn!_
This is such an interesting topic. Any time I sit down to write I dog myself with "it's too similar to X, specifically"
I think this sentiment is important for anyone trying to make a spiritual successor to an already existing franchise, as developing with the mindset of "I'm going to make another Chrono Trigger...but without the setting or characters of Chrono Trigger!", then the project becomes a soulless knockoff that feels artificial and like it was duct taped together.
Bug Fables is an example of a spiritual successor handled the right way. It drew clear inspiration from the Paper Mario franchise, but the setting and characters were uniquely designed and offer an adventure that feels like no other Paper Mario title. Rather than making a ripoff Paper Mario adventure, they chose to give players the experience of being a sentient pair of bugs exploring the kind of "world" found in someone's backyard and meeting a variety of bugs with strange personalities and physical qualities that resemble their real world counterparts.