Y’all remember how Thomas said Chloe wasn’t abused because “she’s rich!!” But Audrey neglects Chloe and verbally abuses her while Andre neglects Chloe throughout the series.
Did he... Actually say that? That genuinely is so stupid it's actually angering, especially when you've had experience with a family like that (like I have)
When your own MOTHER can't even remember your name, you can't tell me, that doesn't leave some trauma. And i really don't know about André... but i don't have a feeling, that he even likes her. The only thing, that we see, is a father who abuses his power as the mayor of the city to fulfill any of Chloe's wishes. No matter how absurd that is. He is more a part time slave of her and we never see any bonding moments between him and his daughters.
True but that doesn’t excuse Chloe from her behaviour ….let’s be honest Chloe has white girl privilege . Whenever Marinette does something wrong you all criticize her so so much yet with Chloe you all excuse her behaviour because she’s traumatized from her mother and yes that may play a part but to excuse her behaviour because she has trauma makes no damn sense. I don’t like Marinette as a character because she is honestly creepy and her behaviour towards Adrien isn’t okay but I think you should held them both accountable and stop excusing Chloe’s behaviour just because she has trauma
INKUBATOR Stop calling everyone racist because they prefer a “white character” over an “asian one”. This is just stupid. Also, the problem with Marinette is that she has no believable reason to be such a creepy stalker and that no one in the show acknowledges that Marinette is incredibly creepy while everyone in the show acknowledges the bad behavior of Chloé. If Marinette actually faced consequences for her actions and learned from them, I wouldn’t hate her but the show doesn’t do that and treats like an angel. Marinette is literally as racist as Chloé, I really suggest you to rewatch the episode where Marinette teams up with Chloé to sabotage Kagami.
It's absurd 💀 Chloe is 14. I'm 1000000% sure he still curses his elementary school bullies, and sees them as the incarnation of pure evil. 50 year old man, guys.
This is exactly why I think Jeremy Zag is the more mature writer because he can admit to his mistakes and solve the problem, instead of defending himself. Also, he wrote Chloé so well-done in season 2, that it’s disappointing that Thomas sabotaged all of it.
“Lady Bug is smarter than everyone” Um. She’s a teenage girl with obsessive, stalker tendencies…who does not recognize just how awful her behavior is. She’s not that smart. 😬
She’s not smart on a school level at all. If I can remember properly she’s forever struggling in class and has to actively try hard so she doesn’t fail. Whilst Adrian (who apparently is stupid when he’s Chat Noir) is literally a gifted student who exceeds every subject. Like how does that work? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have them both working together to figure out how to use her lucky charm/save the day? Also if only Ladybug can use the lucky charm, then it should have been that part of the power is looking at the world and being able to work out how to make it work. So when Adrian was Ladybug then he should have been able to work it out?
@@heartshapedari oh they have. But then their memory gets erased or oops hawkmoth found out their identities and bad things happened so have to use time magic to erase it all. everything.
I actually laughed when Thomas Astruc has claimed to make better content than Pixar. Miraculous Ladybug’s plot is a mess. The timeline is a mess. The characters are a mess. The powers are the biggest mess. In 4 seasons I’ve never seen a show overly contradict itself so many times.
Thomas Assh*le thinks he’s better than Pixar?! Is he really that gullible?! He makes me laugh! Pixar makes better movies than Miraculous Ladytrash!! LMAO!🤣😂
Y’all ever seen Marinette have a conversation with her friends? Like just talking to them about somethin not related to superhero’s, her hobby’s, Adrien, her love life, or Chloe/Lila? Yet we’re supposed to believe these guys love and treasure her. The only thing she seems to do is complain to them
Chloe: school bully- Irredeemable Zuko: literally hunted other children for a good chunk of the series and is One of the best examples of a redemption arc done well If Zuko can be redeemed after almost burning down a village Chloe is so far away from irredeemable that’s laughable.
@@dalalalani2261adrien doesn’t have a personality since he is a sentimonster who was isolated so he never really could get to know other people and how to behave around them.But with Felix he isn’t isolated.He doesn’t get the „OMG YOU ARE A MODEL YOU DEFFO HAVE THE MOST PERFECT LIFE“ treatment
This, honestly i hate adrien. I would love felix who turns into a funny guy, that would make since as to why marienett wouldnt know. Honestly the original design it would be sm better
@@Yourmom-cy5yv adrien is a sentimonster who was isolated.Ofc he wouldn’t develop much of a personality.But Felix had freedom.That’s why he is more interesting since adrien is just a typical model.
@@NEUVILLETTE500 exactly, i hate how thomas just simply gives each character an”role”. And then writes whatever. And when u add about how a character obviously does fit that description thomas just pulls the “its my show what i say goes”😓 Like how cat nores flaws are his? Nope because adrien is apparently perfect
Funny story: my friend of mine in the animation industry went to Gobelins for education. Her tutor was Thomas Astruc, who… Came very rarely or did not come at all. He explained his absence by working on one of the Ladybug’s seasons. In the end, when it was time to hand in the final project, he came and called all his "students" mediocrity and that they had not learned anything. But he had to teach them.
Well… if his students are ‚mediocre‘ as he said, maybe it is due to the „teacher“‘s own mediocrity. Thomas needs to learn to get off his high horse… that barely is taller than any other equine
Moral of story: Support fan content creators. The miraculous office au, the fan comics, the fanfics, the art blogs, anything! If the writing of the show or the creators carrying themselves awfully on Twitter has disappointed you, support the fandom that does canon better than canon.
@@lyrastarstriker7304 stg, no judgement, just watched the episode where they reveal identities to each other I was like "damn uh, this is way to good to be true, are we sure that they'll even REMEMBER this? Remember Chat Blanc..? Yeah.. lesson learned. We still have 15 minutes of the episode left, time for predictions: some shit will probably happen while Marinette and Adrien are in love, Luka will go back in time to fix everything and man, they lost their memories again. End episode where nobody ever brings it up ever again because.. logic" Low and behold, their memories were erased, ONCE AGAIN. I've been thinking of writing a fanfic as well but where they actually confess, fall for each other and find out who each other is. I'm so tired of this repetitive shit every seasonnnn
Thomas handles the whole "feminism" thing SO BAD. the irony in the fact that he had to make adrien dumber just to put ladybug in a good light? hello? ur telling me a girl cant be smarter than a guy w/out him being a moron ?? and if the main point of the ladybug being the more prominent hero is to act as a role model for young girls, why make her an obsessive stalker, who abuses her powers for a GUY? again, irony. i watched this show as a kid, and i tell you, i HATED marinette even then. she was the furthest from a role model to me. she made me so uncomfy it was ridiculous.
Yeah, ironically, the only way for a girl character to be smarter than everyone else is for everyone else to be stupid 💀 He doesn't even realize the implications behind that, and he is quite literally the anti-feminist/sjw movement's WETTEST DREAM of a person.
For real! Mari is in no way the girlboss fem icon for young girls that Thomas seems to think she is. She's a selfish boy-crazy stalker. The forced romance is so unnecessary! It just shows to young girls that if you fancy a boy, it's totally okay to STALK him and everyone will excuse and enable it. It's so weird how a lot of the fandom also supports it and roots for their endgame.. If it were a guy, people would riot.
In my opinion feminism if both sides are represented equal. If the job of one side is shown as much more important it's no feminism. Besides constantly showing that girls are better than boys? That's in a way sexism against boys. I'm a man of complete equality so I honestly don't think this whole duo thing is handled well. I mean I watched Kim Possible, Ron has more heroic and day-saving moments than Chat Noir, and he is meant to be the sidekick in every way, not the partner like Chat Noir
@@lucifer-librarian9562 no yea ur right, its not an opinion tho its a fact. Femisim is to fight for rights equal to that of men. So yeah what Thomas is doing really isn't feminism at all, just the opposite.
Not only that Thomas thinks that Chloe can't change - he thinks it's normal to stalk someone. Marinette literally stalks Adrien, once stole his phone, broke into his house once and Thomas thinks that this is normal. He is ruining his own show, characters like Chloe and Adrien deserve better shows and way better treatment from the creator.
And the fact that he defense Marinette saying that her stalking "it's for comedy" but isn't also part of Chloe's bullying and comments also made for comedy sometimes? Why Marinette can be forgiven but Chloe isn't?
There's a pretty recent episode where Marinette herself acknowledges the stalking is crazy and denounces it, hopefully they follow through with that growth and she actually stops doing it
@@daniboy4153 This show has a tendency to backpedal on character development, sometimes in the last 5 minutes of the same episode, but I hope this was the plan for the stalking thing from the start and she actually grows past it
Literally everyone‘s costume has more details than hers (well, except that one time when Adrien used the snake miraculous. Ugh… horrible) And yet she‘s still treated as the main protagonist and the smartest hero of them all
@@taki7546We are talking details, not beauty, his snake miraculous costume was absolutely awful (because he looks bald, like father like son lol) but it was definitely more detailed than hers (no hate to LB or Aspik)
I’ve seen some people say that Ladybug has one of the best outfits like what? 🤨 I mean come on she’s supposed to be a Fashion designer and THIS is my girl be wearing??? 😭
And the fact that the show keeps treating this like it is her fault, like NO, Chloé is a CHILD, imagine thinking it was Chloé's fault that her mother left her.
I just remembered the time he randomly decided mid show that Luka will be Juleka’s twin. When someone on twitter asked to clarify if Luka is Juleka’s older brother or twin brother he just said yes 💀
I mean maybe he was born first, but they borned the same day, so that makes them twins, but it also makes Luka slightly older by minutes/seconds/hours.
Then later on said they are the same age. Which doesn’t make sense. Luka already has a job, his own guitar shop & is mature so it shows that he is older
To be fair you can have a job at 17, owning a shop is a maybe. I’ve seen it done before if they had the help of a legal adult. But yeah, the show is very inconsistent.
Fun fact: Chloe doesn't change because the writer don't let her change, multiple times they assassinated her character just to put other characters up, she already had a change but they changed her back into the horrible person she started as
As a writer/artists/editor, miraculous ladybug has taught me a numeral ways on how to NOT make romance, characters and pacing. All the time the characters forget the progress from past episodes, but more on contradicts on it’s morality. The fact it’s a kids show doesn’t exempt marinette’s stalker behavior and straight disrespect. Now that people call this out, it’s obvious Tom tries making chat as bad to make her look better*.
@@regunachapex7838Yeah, I remember hearing that! I just can't remember if they decided not to or just changed the story so much that whoever rates shows and movies in France decided it was okay. Some other countries that dubbed the show, if not most, did too.
yeah i liked how in one episode they tried to explain why marinette sucks with talking to adrien with "oh chloe fucked up her first crush by manipulating kim (which wasn't hard because kim has 0 braincells, the twitter norm) now she got PTSD" i am certain they didn't care
@@ines1084 I'm a Christian too and I don't mind the joke. Everyone has said dark jokes from time to time. It's not like Marinette said that in the show.
@@icecreamhero2375 exactly ! And the worst part is thomas 100% understands the fact that he CAN show representation to religious people without forcing down those beliefs on his audience. The excuse of " we need to protect the children" is one that is regularly used by the people who advocate for Islam to be made illegal here in France. Most politicians who are extremely racist and want to get rid of the (quite big) muslim population in france go to the news and say the exact same things that thomas is saying. Its genuinely become extremely obvious to anyone now that whenever someone says "religion is a private manner" its double speak for "I dont like you and your faith and you should keep it to yourself because it pisses me off. If you wanna practice, go back to your home country".
Astruc’s reaction to the people who love Chloe is so disheartening. His excuse that “Chloe couldn’t change” is bs. We were on a solid redemption arc when Astruc decided he didn’t like her popularity and decided to scrub her character arc on the most ridiculous manner. if it was a “micro-deed” maybe the fandom wouldn’t be so upset. But Chloe showed she was capable of change multiple times! No wonder we were so upset when he trashed her arc and introduced Zoe. (No hate to Zoe.)
@@mialluring I don’t have issues with Zoe as a character, just how her character arc was handled. She is just a replacement Chloe. No matter how nice or sweet she seems, she doesn’t add to the show. From Despair Bear, it was clear that Chloe could and would redeem herself. Until the internet blew up about Queen bee and Astruc got jealous of his own success. We’ll never get vesperia merch. All the planned merch was Queen bee and they will keep making it for money despite Chloe’s ruined narrative arc. And Astruc will never let Zoe get more popular than Marinette. I love Marinette but all the heroes can be loved equally.
@@Jellygirl313 idk I'm not a big fan of fanfiction... I like to stick with the canon even tho how much of a mess it is, it's actually quite hilariously entertaining 🤣 Isn't fan fiction easier to do? rather than storyboarding, animating, choosing lines, voice acting, only having a limit of time in one episode (ik they kinda wasted alot of time on this), also making sure the episode gets the final cut etc.. Edit: I don't really know if the makers of this show has any problems behind the scenes when making episodes
@@regaec5908, both haves ups, and downs it depends on what you're writing to be exact, and besides that there's usually one or, at most a few people working on a fan-fiction, a show can have multiple writers, and overall has a lot of people working on it... to me, what matters is the heart put into a piece which fan-fiction is almost always full of. I'm certain some of the Miraculous Ladybug crew adore the show but, those few against a fan who might've been thinking about the show for months on end, and has been drowning in fan-content is unmatched. Also, fan-fiction is almost always better, and that's not just for Miraculous Ladybug, with fan-fiction you can look for exactly what you want therefore look for your exact interests, and enjoy it more, there's tragedy, slow burn, fluff, etc., and you don't need to struggle to get there as it's right in front of you. I personally say fan-fiction is harder _especially if you're trying to write a huge one hundred thousand words piece which if animated would probably be longer than an episode_ since it's usually one person working on it, and sometimes for months meanwhile there are multiple people working for different sections for a show, it's still hard to make the show yeah but, that's what the big team is for, a fan-fiction writer has nothing but, their love, passion, and writing wits... it's wonderful when you find that one piece that you resonate with.
@@MechanizedAngelz nice of you to share, but I'm not the kind of person who likes to read, I'm very bad at visualizing/imagining and understanding scenes that happen in stories, i did go in fanfic territory but not miraculous but for a different show, yes there were good ones, weird and BAD ones I like to watch and observe it's easier for me, I've love cartoons/animation since i was little and i still do, Idk what company/network owns miraculous, cause like other companies/networks(cartoon network, disney, nickelodeon) they seem to limit their shows like: the main character has to be a child/kid, the show must not get too dark for kids, it must be episodic not serialized, dumb things down/cut things out, no lgbtq rep, etc... (Amphibia and The Owl House, matt and Dana's original ideas for their shows have to be changed a bit, specially TOH cause it got cut short), money is also involved, merch etc... I think most people working in miraculous are just doing their jobs, (not putting passion/effort in the show anymore, imo), also i think the show is getting dragged/stretched out to be longer, so that they can sell lots of merchandise, toys, jewelry etc, for money.... In my opinion Also miraculous is still a kids show that doesn't make any sense 😂
Before I get to Tom’s part, I’m gonna throw my two cents in on Tom. He’s practically a man-child. He can’t take criticism, and his characters aren’t great, and his excuses for things are forced and lame. I remember when I started writing stories and fan-fictions and things along those lines. I acted exactly like Tom did; people told me my character needed more development, I was passive-aggressive with them. People gave me hate, I blocked them. I was nine at the time. Thomas Astruc has about the writing mindset of a nine-year-old. I mean, when I was nine my storylines didn’t make sense either, so there’s that. He needs to grow up and make better decisions. He’s almost 50.
But unlike you Thomas is a grown man running a show that everyone wants to watch but the bad writing from willful ignorance is losing the support he had. There’s nothing wrong with criticism if your writing fanfics, but you also have every right to NOT listen to it and block people who harass you, especially at such a young age. But it’s funny how fanfictions are doing a greater job than the show ever will and it’s all because a grown man can’t handle simple criticism to improve the trash show.
Thomas has this weird obsession with making Marinette the center of attention. But instead of simply making her a better character, he changes every other character getting more attention so we start hating them. As someone who saw Chloe's redemption arc in real time, we were all starting to love her and making art of her, more than Mari. And suddenly Chloe's evolution was made backwards for no real reason.
I totally agree, Marinette has done a lot of unforgivable things but It's okay because thomas think it's cute and clumsy to be stalker and abuse of her power for personal reasons. Ladybug and Marinette whatever is not a good character but Chloé was and she was really becoming a good person with real motivations and background, She had a better writing than Marinette that's why he did that. Because he found out that people started to like Chloé more than Marinette.
I kinda disagree on the Chloe thing, it teaches kids that sometimes people aren't redeemable and won't change no matter how many chances you give them. Chloe never seemed like someone that was ever going to learn her lesson tbh.
Did you know that Thomas Astruc has 2 self-inserts? Himself of course, and Tom Dupain, Maris Dad. Apparently he had a chinese girlfriend named Sabine and Marinette is their envisioned daughter; he sees himself as her father. It only makes sense that he sees his girls blond bitch bully as a irremediable monster. Some fans asume that Chloe is based on another ex or childhood bully, interestingly in a piece of concept art Mari, Chloe and Alya sit at a fashion show and have fun. Would not be surprised if Zoe became Marinettes second BFF in season 5
@@niharikatripathi43209 correction: I wish someone else would just rewrite the show and erase the original from everyone’s memories. It’s like the scriptwriters have never met teenagers 😭
"Miraculous is, at this point, objectively trash" Saying this show is trash is like saying Melina from Elden Ring looks absolutely gorgeous. We all know it's true.
My question is, if Chloe is _so irredeemable_ then why even make a redemption arc if it would only be destroyed in the end? Her development was one of my favorite things in the show. MLB has so much potential, but it always manages to be a disappointment.
apparently astruc wasnt working on the show for chloe's redemption arc. when he got back instead of going with it he overhauled all of her character development
Because Astruc wants people to come into the show at any episode and not be lost. He wants to keep it episodic and formulaic meaning that it'll stick to the same formula for the next season and the season afterwards. We get no new main villain other than Hawk Moth, characters don't develop (and when they do it's instantly retconned), and Marinette and Adrien will keep at this stupid slow burn of a romance with no new tensions or interesting story arcs or character arcs to keep viewers invested. Even other formulaic shows like Power Rangers and Sailor Moon knew to spice things up and develop the story and characters otherwise the shows would get boring.
'chloe is there to represent that some people don't want to change' um... i think gabriel agreste fits that perfectly, and if she did change for the better that would make the show immensely better. I think a message to the kids that WOULD be appropriate is that anyone can change and no one has a 'static character', but rather 'dynamic'. Also, idk if anyone else has noticed, but half of the character cast has almost been forgotten from the show altogether. Nino? The Class? Ms Bustier, which i should mention helped chloe for the better? the rest of the freaking WORLD that they built in the first 2 seasons? where did they all go??? and what's with giving out the miraculous like its *candy*? Also really don't like how they've given/taken away basic character from characters just to give someone else the spotlight, thats super bad writing.
Lila fits the bill too. She literally said to Ladybug in Volpina that they'll never be friends and after over 3 seasons, Lila still hates Ladybug and she still makes up BS stories.
@@victoriaescobedo5458 YES OH MY GOD i really don't know what thomas has against chloe OR the concept of giving all characters equal spotlight. Another rant for my sanity's sake, his claim of, "oh some details in the episodes might seem unimportant but in the end it really comes together" Sir. As a creator, if you require your audience to look at your story multiple times in order to understand the basic plot, then you're telling the story wrong. Good storytelling gets straight to the point and tells the audience what they want them to know and/or understand and they do it in the most understandable way, like body language or dialogue. It INFURIATES ME how much Miraculous has ignored this in so many of their episodes and the recent plot overall, and yet it's considered a 'remarkable' show. Yeah, remarkable in its profits.
All of that turned into mind controlled zombies who always react unanimously to a situation/character and it just makes it all so boring and cringe, it reminds me of those fanfics that 10 years old write, except they are excused for making that mistake, unlike adult people working on a TV show. They are constantly used to TELL us how amazing a certain character is, their only purpose is to be this stupid crowd just to show how smart ladybug/Marinette is. Remember the episode Laila was introduced? Everyone imidietly got brainwashed by her, they all just lost their personalities, they didn't have their own opinion anymore, but Marinette? Oh she's the main hero and we have to make it visible by making her the only person to be able to think and act like an actual human being. I know in shows there will always be this crowd of people that serves as a background, but they problem is they gave those guys character, they started to flesh them out and then they just forgot about all that and turned them into mindless puppets
Astruc is legit just a manchild at this point. Saying that a 14 year old bully is inherently evil and irredeemable is just so wrong. I swear he had a crush at high school who most likely rejected him and then he just portrayed her as Chloe
Honestly i think h is just weird about the main characters, he wanted them to be perfect in everyone eyes but honestly i just get the feelings he is living a weird fantasy through them☠️
@@pwpqwq7648 ong and if anyone criticizes it, he just throws a fit and blocks them. Idek why a writer for a show can openly act like this yet still be broight back to make more shows
@@Yourmom-cy5yv Unfortunately, when he gained more power, his ego also grew, like, a LOT. He is legit constantly bashing other creators all the time to this day, saying even worse things than the ones shown in this video
Honestly I think Jeremy Zagg loves his show and his company so much but not Thomas’ version… hence why he’s making a movie and Thomas isn’t writing it. I think Jeremy is a solid guy for acknowledging the wages and fixing it, but it makes me wonder what else is going on in his company that he’s unaware of.
He's an expansionist. He likes bringing new ideas into the same theme. I doubt it's his fault that the company had issues when he was focusing on making new projects and stuff.
Oh i didnt know thomas didnt make the movie, i might actually watch it now, knowing how bad the show is right now, the only thing that could make a new show come would be a full on reboot
I'm so glad more people are seeing Thomas's true self. He's a pretty immature person and a lot of his views and interactions, a lot being with fans who are minors, are very odd. He has a big ego bc of how big miraculous is, but that credit mostly goes to the fan creators and even then he's mean to them too.
I'm so fricking disturb of the comic where miraculous got naked and had to wear just a box, then she stumble upon a group of big black guy (mostly), I thought it was gonna turn into a r**e hentai. His definitely entertaining the idea... Ugh..
@@adrenalineactivate imagine being such a vile, gross ass man that you imagine that, create it, then publish it to an audience of mostly children. He should’ve lost his career after that. Truly.
Hilarious how Thomas portrays himself as the epitome of feminists when his main female character is probably one of the most poorly written female characters I've had the misfortune of seeing. Can you name any personality trait Marinette (Not Ladybug) has other than "Ouchie! I slipped and fell! I'm so clumsy umu 🥺" and "OMG ADRIEN MY HUSBAND 😍😍😍". That's literally all she is.
Yeah. Ladybug is not good either she is a marysue who has forced writing and a hypocrite. Marinette is intead one of the most badly written characters I had the misfortune of watching unlike Adrien and chloe she didn't have any potential that got wasted She was bad from season 1.
@@rawdasalmataman7908 Not to mention how both Marinette and Ladybug are constantly being pushed out to be these "amazing, loving and caring people", when so many times throughout this show, Marinette has been such a catty, vindictive bitch. People get mad at Chloe for being a mean girl to everyone around her, but nobody seems to ever fault Marinette for literally shit-talking a girl who did nothing to her besides having a relationship with the boy she likes. And why Marinette is angry Kagami and Adrien got together is beyond me since... you know... Marinette literally never shoots her shot and avoids any possibly moment she can actually have developing a relationship with Adrien. Like girl, no shit other girls are gonna be jumping at Adrien, YOU NEVER DO IT YOURSELF. And for once, Adrien actually has a girl who wants him for HIM and not him for being what he is on the surface, that being a model or rich man's son. Kagami and Adrien actually connect because they both struggle with having a parent who's either absent or way too involved, yet Marinette just can't look past that bias because it's like she's deluded herself into thinking that Adrien is already hers WHEN HE'S NOT.
@@puppetpawss Yeah. In lies they showed that kagami likes Adrien not catnoir which feels weird to me because kagami is not like that Her interactions with catnoir were actually nice and they work well together even if there moments are not that many. Chloe is mean but it doesn't seem like anyone likes her or even see good in her except Adrien and miss bustier also chloe has bad parents she has a reason for being the person she is. However Marinette has a good life and good parents Everyone seems to like her even Adrien who sometimes see her stalking him I don't blame him since he knows nothing about the outside world and his communication skills are not good but I am just saying. Marinette is a creepy stalker and she has no backstory to explain why For example toko from danganronpa she is similar to Marinette not her personality but has she acts around her crush Toko is stalks her crush I mean not like Marinette I mean Marinette went into Adrien 's room and smelled his pillow I don't remember toko being that level of creepy but toko still says togami is her boyfriend even though he is not however toko had a really rough childhood and a backstory that explains why she is like that. Also toko is not supposed to be a role model for kids.
@@rawdasalmataman7908 As well as Toko generally gets the back-end of her stalkerish behavior, which is deserved. Togami doesn't put up with it, shuts her down, and generally she gets her comupence for the behavior she displays, usually because her character in the first game is kinda just around for comedic effect. But Marinette is constantly forgiven for her behavior by Adrien, and her friends and even Tikki encourage the way she acts. And that's another whole issue too! Chloe has a mother who couldn't give a shit about her and a father who enables her behavior but isn't actually there for her and doesn't display love for her besides giving her whatever she demands and basically nothing else. In a sense, she essentially doesn't really have a parental figure in her life, because your can't even really call Andre and Audrey parents. Just two adults in Chloe's life who sometimes take care of her. Which also makes sense as to why Adrien sympathizes with her and Kagami. He sympathies with the two because they share a story. Chloe's abusive and neglectful parents, Adrien's dead mother and neglectful father, Kagami's mother who's a combination of both strict and uncaring. Adrien is sympathetic because he knows their stories and he can relate to them. Where as Marinette, who only knows them on the outside, doesn't understand her issues, and therefore is unsympathetic. And while that wouldn't be her fault if she was still unaware of what life is like for these characters, the issue is she IS aware and STILL treats these characters horribly. She knows Audrey is a horrible mom, she knows Kagami doesn't have a lot of experience with making friends because of her mother's strictness, and she at least seems somewhat aware that Gabriel is not exactly an ideal father, yet she continues to squander these characters and treat them like dirt for no other reason than the fact that they're not completing this pitch perfect life she invisioned in her head. It's honestly just saddening.
@@puppetpawss Well toko also is not as bad as Marinette to be honest. Also toko has a logical reason to why she actually likes byakuya according to her trauma. Marinette is like yuno gasai I won't say she is worse because I think yuno is a bad person and a bad character Marinette is pretty bad but not as bad as yuno. Marinette is like yuno that she has no reason to like Adrien and she is ready to get rid of any girl who gets close to Adrien.
Theory: 1. Thomas came up with a fun concept. The magic system was simple with easily marketable jewelry giving power ups to random people. Throw in the high school setting to hit the target demographic, which also enables dating and coming of age tropes. 2. He took his ideas to a creative team and rolled 5 natural 20s or something, and got an AMAZING team of actors and animators that pushed MLB into the success it is. 3. As the show grew his ego got out of hand and refused to let better writers work on the storytelling, because he wanted to keep the fame and notoriety. Conclusion: What we got. A delightful magic system that lends itself to OCs/fan fiction, basic character tropes and setting people can latch onto, and better than it deserves visual/audio talent. MLB is a beautiful mess. It has no coherent narrative or plot progression. It's animated and voiced by talents that make it seem better quality than the story is. And it has a creator that desires personal attention over the improvement of the story. I like MLB. In theory anyway. The magic is a fun concept, the setting and coming of age is the type of story I like, and it's pretty. But it's story is such a pile of dung that I don't respect it anymore. If anything I just feel pity to the voice actors and animators who have to play these Looney Toon puppets. Even when I know the plot is dumb, the shows aesthetics pull me in and nearly convince me that this is a good show. But it isn't. And that's what's frustrating. I've stopped watching it after season 4, but I stopped loving it after the NY special. It's better in my imagination. Edit: Just to clarify. When I said dating, I am meaning crushes and romantic attraction. Not anything sexual. I should've used better phrasing beforehand. Second Edit: I'm not saying Thomas came up with magic jewelry or transformation magic or even the Love Square. I'm saying he put his own spin on it. Nothing is completely new and magical girl stuff has been around for ages. Magic items even more so.
personally, I don't think that Thomas really came up with the concept of magical jewelery being given to people as I have seen it in plenty of precure show before like glitter force doki doki which was released two years before miraculous. English is not my native language so sorry for any grammar mistake.
If Zuko, someone who tried to hunt down a saviour, disregarded and betrayed his uncle, committed a various number of atrocities can be redeemed then I'm sure a teenager with parental issues can be redeemed as well.
@@XIAO-j9o oh yea, I put it for people who would if they would read my comment....like 2 days ago I posted something about avatar book 3 and somebody told me that I should have put spoilers warning becs he was at book 2
@@XIAO-j9o I feel like in a somewhat more grounded show that doesn't quite fly as well, Bad people come from bad people, you can rationalize their actions and feel sympathy for them but you don't have to forgive them and redeem them, especially if they don't change, I think that's the lesson, Someone's past doesn't justify their current actions, It only rationalizes them
I have a theory. Thomas Astruc is an abusive helicopter parent. Think about it. Marinette is his fantasy daughter with an ex, which is why her parents are named Tom and Sabine. Marinette can do no wrong in his eyes, which is why she can get away with a lot of questionable things like stalking her crush. When Astruc wasn't in charge, the show had better writing, but when he came back, he made things back to the way he wanted it to go and the writing sucks. He makes sure that his "daughter" have everything that she needs to "succeed", not noticing or caring that it is helping (the show) fail in the long run. He blocks anyone who points out the flaws in his "perfect" fantasy. He doesn't make sense, yet he is acting like he is always right and everyone else is in the wrong. He blocks fans because they disagree with him on how he is running his show. Prove me wrong.
And Now I Know If Thomas Ever Had A Daughter Irl Who Behaves EXACTLY LIKE Marinette, Thomas Wouldn’t Do A Damn Thing About It Instead He Will Support Her All The Way 🙄
Thomas Astruc isn’t just rude to his “haters”. He’s openly rude to fans who come up with their own theories, says his show is better than others (Winx Club, Tangled the Series, and The Incredibles, among others, two of which are owned by Disney, the company that airs the show so he’s essentially biting the hand that feeds him), he doesn’t own up when he does something people are rightfully offended by (fumbling the message in Qilin by having Marinette APOLOGIZE to a man who was racist to her mother/the police were brutal towards her when the message was supposed to be “don’t be racist/police brutality is wrong”, naming a black character assumed by Marinette to be a looter Ghetto Blaster, having characters be walking offensive stereotypes like in Kung Food, and including a racist flag that angered multiple Korean fans), bashes Fanfiction, would rather bait fans than include good representation, dumbs down characters to make plot points work (ex: To cover up her lie about her sprained wrist, Lila says “I once saw someone get jabbed in the eye with a napkin” and everyone, including Max who was smart enough to build his own robot/create his own game, automatically believes her over Marinette, automatically assuming Marinette is just jealous), and he thinks fans who take commissions are stealing. You would think a creator would at least have enough sense to not insult his fans, but considering he also insults other creators, I shouldn’t be surprised.
@@nevaehhamilton3493sis, that’s too much, calling him out for being an asshole is one thing but calling him a pedophile is just crossing the line. Like where is the proof off of that?
Very bold to bash fanfic creators when zoe's ENTIRE character fits the bill for a bad wattpad oc. No mention of the character in canon before she's introduced, getting a miraculous within knowing marinette for a couple weeks, the whole not like other girls thing she has going on. Her entire character and every plotline relating to her feels like it's fanfiction and not in the good way. She was solely created to show what an awful human being chloe is. I don't even like chloe that much. I think she was fine as the villain and while if they wanted her to stay that way, they shouldn't have given her those sympathetic moments in previous seasons. But tbh I don't see the fandom fervor over making a racist bully into a redeemable character after she already regressed back. Does this mean I like how her character is handled in the show currently? Not really. Chloe was always supposed to be the school bully, not some grade A supervillain with no feelings. Tbh the only reason Chloe is nearly as bad as she is in canon rn is because so many people wanted her to be good and Astruc clearly hates the idea of anyone disagreeing with his thoughts on the characters and buckled down to make her as awful as possible.
also....how tf does zoe exist? she and chloe are the same age, with different fathers but the same mother. Their mother either got pregnant directly after giving birth or, she was pregnant with both daughters at the same time (very rare, but actually possible - if youre y'know doing the do with two guys at the exact same time) by all rights zoe canno exist
@@whatteamwildcats4033 If timed right, you could have siblings be about 11 months apart and in the same grade. The older one just missing the grade deadline with the younger just making it.
I agree for the most part, though I think good writers should be able to pull off giving a character like Chloe some sympathetic moments and redeeming traits without her having a full-on redemption arc. Having her try to become better, but for the wrong reasons and ultimately fail is a little tragic and quite interesting in concept at least. Alas, what we got was rather half-baked, and then in S4 it only went further downhill. I was never really a fan of Chloe either, but I did find her potential quite interesting, at least in S2. It's really frustrating how any depth to her character was either thrown out the window or is outright contradicted later just to make her look bad. S2 Chloe was literally told by her own mother how the only exceptional thing about her is her mother, then S4 Chloe can suddenly boss her mom around and order her to send Zoe back to the US? How does that add up? And Zoe is obviously just a plot device, but not even a good one. She could've very easily been used to make Chloe spiral further by just having a better relationship with their mom, thus feeding into Chloe's established insecurities, and that could've led to Chloe trying to get rid of her through different means. Zoe getting akumatized could perhaps happen because she actually wanted to have a good relationship with her sister. But welp, I guess we just can't have even just remotely nice things in this show.
Chloe and Zoe are both wasted characters in my opinion, Zoe basically has one personality, and Chloe’s character development was going great until they tossed it out the window.
something that really bothered me in the VAs being replaced thing was: if the thing hadn't been resolved, they would probably look for inexperienced VAs to replace, young people who are just starting and don't know what's a good and fair payment. they would probably receive the same amount of money as the former VAs or worse, even less because they're, again, inexperienced. as someone who just got accepted into theater school and had plans to become a VA, this is such a shitty and shady thing to do
@@rinibunny4576 In some episodes, Rena Rouge and Pegasus had lighter skin as superheroes and this was blamed on animation errors. Aeon from the New York special is an android created by a white person, takes the form of a black girl and is programmed to help people. Fei from the Shanghai special originally had golden hair when she was Ladydragon but it was changed to red due to accusations of whitewashing. And then there's Qilin, an episode focused on rasicm that ended with the racist getting off scott-free while the victim's daughter paid the fine using the victim's money. The Ephemeral case is the one that got me to turn against Thomas Astruc because of how he just kept blocking Korean fans AND what happened with Hope Morphin.
I saw someone say 'he named Marinettes father after himself, but he also based her mother on his ex Chinese girlfriend who was also named Sabine, he created her family to represent his dream life with his ex girlfriend and a child he doesn't have and gets upset when people imply she's anything other than perfect, it's so creepy and also brings up the idea that he didn't even make Marinette wasian for the sake of diversity or anything, but because she's supposed to be his ex's daughter.' He said this on twitter and literally said "yes, at the time my girlfriend was a french/Chinese woman named Sabine, so it is as if Marinette is our virtual child." (direct quote) What's worse is that he has his own wife and daughter apparently. Thomas Astruc is a weird creep.
27:28 I think I searched this up online before, “Thomas astruc ex girlfriend Sabine”, that post from the tumblr of immaturityofthomasastruc had the screenshots to prove it. Can’t link it here because UA-cam would delete this comment for “spamming” even though I was link sharing not advertising. Everyone commenting there is rightfully unnerved and even disgusted that someone working in an animation industry would behave like this, still thinking about an ex despite being already married.
@@luisangelvillasanchez5708any sane person would be disturbed as hell about this if the fictional character(s) based from them was released in the public but wasn’t given permission. Google does the auto translate here instead of having one of us copy pasting to translate sites.
As someone who is extremely traumatized mostly because of emotional neglect, hearing that Chloe isn't traumatized makes me so mad. She clearly seeks any form of attention from other people because she didn't get any from her mother. She clearly has some attachment issues too. "Her mother couldn't abuse her because she left when Chloe was young". Her mother literally left her and that's not traumitizing? Sometimes it can be even more hard than your parent's death, because you know that your parent is alive, they just CHOSE not to love you and not to be there for you. And what he's essentially saying is "Some people had it worse than you, so you have no right to do bad stuff and you don't deserve forgiveness if your trauma messed you up. Your bad behavior is your own choice and your fault". Which is an awful message. Of course there are some people who don't want to change. Chloe had a bad childhood, she's messed up, people give her many chances and she doesn't want to change. Ok, that's a valid message, "don't cling to abusive people". But saying that she WASN'T traumitized? Oh god.
Why'd you have to compare a parent loss to abadonment? I loss my father when i was 7 years old, my brother was 17 years old and to this day he carry on a lot of self hatred and guilty, something that he will never resolve it because my father HIS DEAD. He will never talk to him again and express his feelings. both traumas(abandonment and parent loss) can lead to major issues equally.
@@xariaxx2112That's why they said sometimes. I also winced at the comparison bc that's a touchy statement, but I understood what they were trying to say
@@davidhetherman8127become a politician, be very homophobic, pass some anti gay laws, and meanwhile go to gay o*gies (definitely didn't happen before)
Honestly, there’s something so funny to just watch this middle aged man answer questions about his show with the facts he forgets immediately after hitting send, but the way he treats genuine fans for just BEING CURIOUS ABOUT HIS SHOW is upsetting.
There's also a controversy involving the Ephemeral episode among the Korean community. The episode features a brief reference to Japan's "Rising Sun" flag/symbol. The symbol is considered offensive for Koreans and Korea's history with Japan during WWII. What made this incident more baffling is that the show was co-produced in Korea! And somehow the symbol being there was never pointed out before the final production. While the rest of the Miraculous Ladybug showrunners apologized to the fans for their mistakes, Thomas Astruc, of course, blocked people on Twitter for bringing it up and played victim. It's funny how Thomas made a couple of episodes that address anti-Asian racism with Marinette's mom and uncle, but then he refuses to address an episode or acknowledge a mistake that features a controversial/racist symbol for Koreans....😐
The Rising Sun flag has been used for over 400 years. You don't get to erase a big part of Japanese culture, no matter how offended you are. I'm sure a lot of people hate the British Empire too, does that mean we should censor the Union Jack in every fucking tv show and movie ever?! Of course not. You can hate the flag all you want, but calling for censorship is 100% wrong.
Chloe’s trauma doesn’t excuse the way she behaves (for instance someone who lived the same life could’ve turn differently) but it explains it. You can say that someone "bad" won’t change when the person is an adult and had plenty of time to understand how actions affect others etc but she’s 14 ! You can’t expect a child to to be aware of all of this. Of course she’s going to grow up be more mature and work on her issues (she’s never going to be perfect, maybe she won’t become a very good person but she’s at least going to change like everybody)
Exactly. Like- come on Thomas the girl is barely into her teen years. Does he have any idea how much people mature during then? I was really immature when I was 14, but here I am 3 years later, where I’ve learned a lot about things and how to be mature about more sensitive topics and other people’s feelings. I’m still not perfect, but that’s the point of growing up. You live. And you learn. I also find it annoying how he pins all the blame on Chloe for being irredeemable... when Audrey exists. You know, the fully grown woman who still bosses people around like a spoilt brat and treats everyone around her, including her daughter and husband, like complete trash that she can throw away at her leisure. And what about her dad? Audrey left when Chlo was a kid, so her dad was the one who mainly raised her. And guess what? He ENABLES her. He throws money at her all the time, and does nothing when she copies her mother’s abhorrent behaviour. So we’re looking an abusive narcissist, and a spineless enabler. Is it any wonder Chloe turned out to be a spoiled brat? And even then, SHE CAN STILL CHANGE. She isn’t even out of her teens yet. She needs time and support to mellow out a bit and hopefully realise that the way she’s behaving isn’t acceptable. She’s still a kid. Thomas needs to understand that. It doesn’t justify Chloe’s behaviour, as you’ve said, but good god Astruc give the girl a chance to grow up.
It bothers me how Zoe debuted and then 2 episodes later, she becomes a hero. Like she just became a miraculous holder within just 2 episode since debut. I wish the writers could’ve built her character more rather than just “Zoe came to Paris to live with her family and then she became a superhero.”
He can't because he's a lazy writer, Zoe's character is empty and is unable to take chloe's place she is just "nice" that's a boring and Interesting character just a Mary Sue who came out of nowhere got everything and everybody already loves her...in 2 episodes. If it's not Laziness I don't know what it is.
I know right! It's fine her character was introduced, but I would've liked for us to see why Zoe deserves to be a holder besides her being "nice". It was so forced. I thought Chloe would grow to be a better person, and eventually earn LB's trust and return to her role of the bee holder miraculous.
@Otdreamer193 I so hated the end of Axel and that-girl-Sora-loves-forgot-her-name-that-boring-she-is. Axel was a DAMN FIRE ITSELF. He was gorgeous and wonderful in his fury and pain. Then he got a keyblade which supposed to make him stronger… do you remember him beating up a crowd of shadows even if it costed him his life? And he’s now a totally pushover alongside with that princess-who-always-need-to-be-rescued. I thought she would at last become useful. Nah, no. She’s still nothing but a problem you shall fix.
If they were really gonna replace Chloe, they should've made Zoe have a lying/identity issue like Lila, but on a smaller scale with her actively trying to fix it. It would have made her more interesting cuz that's kinda how they introduced her, then they washed away ANY interesting aspect she could've had and made her Mary Sue
Zoé is totally useless. It's just a Mary sue who got everything on a golden plate in only 2 episodes but she's pretty empty and she sucks. Being a nice person doesn't mean you're interesting or a good character and unfortunately it's her one and only character trait.
I saw a comment that said Thomas’s hatred for Chloe is like he based her off a girl from his high school who either bullied him or wasn’t interested in him which wouldn’t be surprising because the hatred he seems to have for her specifically goes well past what a normal creator would have unless she is based on a real person
@@i_am_only_an_insane_person Mary Sue is kinda when a character is unbalenced and doesn't have to work for anything (Google it if you want a good explanation tho)
The show is a guilty pleasure. It came out when I was around 14 and I wanted to be like Marinette. She was was cute, clumsy, and everyone loved her and she was an adored superhero who had a cute boy head over heels for her. I wanted that. As an adult. Marionette’s behavior is the worst for a child to idolize and I probably wasn’t the only kid that wanted be like her. The message that you can stalk someone and they’d still like you is dangerous. Also the writing is just a hot mess in dangerous. It’s a good show to put on when you’re working and you need something to put on in the background
Yeah, stalking is not good! Being obsessed with another person period is not healthy. You can really like someone, you can CERTAINLY respect them deeply, but you cannot be obsessive. You cannot feel entitled to someone else. It's... The show really waters down the severity. The protagonist has a real problem and she needs help with emotional regulation. Looking back I'm baffled the writers didn't see it that way.
I think it was because he got into a huge shitstorm with She-Ra's fanbase at some point.. if i remember correctly it was because of the whole Ladybug and Chat Noir not being equals argument.
Thomas really out here saying he’s got the most creative powers 💀 bro tf are you supposed to do with the power of gift giving. Like make them useful 7:37
I started watching Miraculous when Season 1 was still being released and I relate to hating and loving it since the beginning. It's an unique experience.
I’ve been watching miraculous since I was a child, I think since season 2 was released because it was a tv show so yeah. When season 4 released, I got more interested.
The part with Chloe always gets me. I went through a lot of trauma as a child, and people often disregarded this saying "you had your parents, siblings and friends, you can't have trauma if they were there" Yeah no fuck you, you don't understand how trauma works at all. Trauma isn't a thing that happens, but how we react to it. Even though Chloe had her father and her buttler, even a friend in Adrien, she still felt awful about her mom leaving and couldn't cope with this. Stating she couldn't feel bad because there was people to support her doesn't make sense, when people with trauma often don't realize for a long time where their troubles, fears and anxiety come from, and usually fear that their emotions will be tossed aside since they "don't have a reason for it" This is what made me resent Thomas. Before this, I could've forgiven most of what he said if he properly apologized and seemed like he would change. But being so awful when it comes to a sensitive topic is absolutely not okay and in my opinion fully unforgivable.
I totally agree with you, and I'm sorry about the trauma you had went through as well. I understand that you feel very strongly about how Thomas dealt with the Chloe thing, heck so do I! I had so much hope for Chloe, it seemed as if she was going to get a redemption arc then BOOM no. It makes no sense to me that he dealt with her this way especially if this is a kids show with supposedly "valuable lessons" Making Chloe out to be somebody "who will never change" and brushing her off as if she's just a "rich blond with daddy's money" is honestly repulsive and has also made me resent thomas.
I'm going to be bold and say that it feels that to Thomas, unless you're something like a war veteran or a sexual assault survivor, it's not "real" trauma.
@@spiritlxss Doesn't help that, narratively speaking, the argument of Chloe 'choosing' to not be redeemed COULD have worked too: growing resentment and a feeling of betrayal from Ladybug/Adrien, the few people she actually opened up to, thinking that it's pointless to become good if everyone still always expects the worst of you - might as well be as bad a villain as people say, right? ... but nope, instead they just dump her character arc entirely, pretend season 2 didn't happen, and turned her into a parody version of her season 1 self while her sister that literally didn't exist until season 4 became the new bee miraculous holder. It all felt so.... contrived, to put it nicely.
@@kou7191 This is such a strong point, you're absolutely right. Even if Chloe choosing to not be redeemed could have worked if they didn't dump her character entirely, just like you had said. What makes me resent him the most is how they completely neglected her character and wrote her like her season 1 self, AKA: the "mean character for no reason and no backstory behind her feelings" You can just notice the differences in her character between the seasons and then suddenly just going back to square one. I don't know if you are familiar with High school musical, (if not completely disregard this point!) but I can contrast Chloe and Sharpay Evans. (a well written character compared to chloe) Chloe and Sharpay are both stereotypical blond and rich 'mean' girls. The contrast is that Sharpay actually has a redemption arc in her own movie. Though, without her redemption arc she is a well written villain who is actually valuable to the story. Sharpay was never really a neglected character at all.
The fact that Marionette still can’t confess her love to Adrian after 4 seasons is tiring and even a little annoying. I rather see Adrian hook up with Nino at this point. Also these characters don’t suffer any trauma after being akumatized which is pretty unrealistic. Two even published a comic book about their akumatized selfs and how they turn good. Wtf?
Mari kinda have trauma beacuse of Blank.But you're right the akumatized people should have trauma and PTSD but they don't. Hawkmoth isn’t scary at all.He should be intimidating but he isn’t.
Thomas: "She wasn't given a redemption arc. You convinced yourself it was". You know, it sounds like: "Gaslighting doesn’t exist. You made it up 'cause you're fucking crazy".
I hate how the creators of the show just casually put a BUNCH characters into depression in season 4 and only said Marinette was going through “struggles” and Thomas said that Chloe was fine because she’s rich. I’m sorry what- 👁👄👁
@@CelticVictory me neither- they refuse to change how Chloe acts and behaves. They are still writing her with some emotion but now it’s blurred. The character i once knew 2 years ago doesn’t really exist anymore.
When asked about if he would ever put a hijabi character in the show, Tom said it would be 'too political'. Nice to know that hijabis like me aren't really people, we're just walking political entities that aren't appropriate for kids shows. Save the children from our scary headscarves!
I literally saw that on twitter and the hijabi girl who brought that subject to the table kept coming back with great reasons to put hijabi characters (be it simple background characters) he's totally willing to make a Christmas episode but a headscarf is too cultural 🤡
@@genericname2747 they're supposed to be, but some nations love making things that aren't political, political. Black people are political, trans people are political, disabled/neurodivergent people are political, and ANYONE THAT ISN'T WHAT THEY ARE (i.e. Christian or atheist) is political. But in reality? They're just people. Different people that are still human.
Can we talk about how frickin dedicated and talented the miraculous fandom is for a sec?? Here we have a show with a plot holes so big that it could rival the grand canyon, inconsistent with it's story and badly written characters aswell a very controversial (and racist) creator who likes to stir up drama with 14yo on twitter And yet the fandom is still dedicated to this show for 6 years and somehow still kept this dumpster fire of a show still relevant by writing fanfic's, making beautiful animatics, amazing comic's & comic dubs, hell even gacha live mini movies, without being acknowledge or even respected by the creator at all And the fact that the fan stuff has a lot more depth, carachter development and consistent lore the show has setup in 6 YEARS Astruc should really keep in mind that without the fandom this show wouldn't even be relevant anymore and he wouldn't even be as famous as he is now
Because fans are very passionate about what they like, plus it puts their own writing and artistic skills to the test. I'm an artist, and I'm still practicing on how to be a good writer by making my own fanfics (Ben 10 Alien Force being the main atm), but I draw how I think it could have gone, like how I'm Steven Universe, the diamonds are the bad guys, Pink Diamond and Rose Quartz are their own separate characters, male gems exist too, and the gems are not made of light etc or how I think in Star vs the forces of evil, Marco would be the final villain, with everything at stake on Mewni, him claiming the wand and Monster Arm returning.
@@zeldaprincessgirl100 I think it's just sad the astruc doesn't even acknowledge this fact at all, the artist's and writer's in the fandom are very talented people yet we see not even a pinch of respect from astruc himself, instead he just send hate comment to people who DARES critic his masterpiece and absolute perfection of a show instead of trying to fix noticable mistakes in it If even gacha kids can make a good and cohesive story line then an adult man who has been "fixing" this show for more then 6 years. you know you did something very wrong
@@e.h6522 Thomas was pissing in the well as he knew he was being replaced as the key person on the show. Just like Rian Johnson destroyed sequel Potential for Star Wars Episode Nine, Thomas Made Chloe loose everything she had that was important to her to her sister into a crazy dictator & threw her off the show, and then murdered both of Adrien's Parents then mike dropped and left. Season 6 has such a big mess to clean up and The Paris Special may just muddle the issue.
The problem with Zoe: She's a "nice person", but a bad Character. The reason we don't like her is because she had no build up, she has no goals, and serves no Narrative purpose. The only reason she exists is because Astruc is a lazy writer with terrible execution who hates a fictional child. Zoey gets everything in the two episodes she is introduced. And to hammer it in they regress Chloe to a ridiculous degree where she does things she would never have done or said before hand, mainly to her best friends. Every Character in those 2 episodes acts so lifeless. Notice how desperate they are to hype up Zoe instead of gradually integrating her into the story. Notice how the story bends to her will and all her "problems" are immediately solved. Zoe is a worse Mary Sue than Marinette. The only difference between them is that Zoe isn't a disturbing Stalker. Chloe and Marinette were two sides of the same coin. Their lives are flipped versions of each other but they're both good kids deep down. What holds Chloe back is trauma and status. What holds Marinette back is the fear of failure. They both just need someone to encourage the best parts of them. Marinette has Tikki and Cat Noir. Chloe had Ladybug and eventually an observant Adrien. Now, her CHILDHOOD FRIEND leaves because of a Movie, out of all the things she's done, it was a MOVIE. That's so out of Character for Adrien. Plagg complimenting an absolute stranger is so out of character as well.
Zoe doesn't provide any new visual characteristics either, like her clothes are just marinettes outfit put through a rebrand press. Her transformation animation sticks out like a sore thumb, its weirdly bouncy and feels overcompensated for lack of actual character traits to work off of
@Marinette Then why can't he put in the effort to write balanced, developing Characters? Why does he bash other people's opinions and block people who politely disagree or correct him? Why does he not try?
My biggest beef with Thomas is his profile pic , it’s so annoyingly fake / narcissistic. Also biggest beef with the show is how the episodes come out out of order
Oh, the episodes are actually released out of order?! I thought my tv/ netflix was being weird. Good to know someone else is experiencing this too. I'd always look up what the order is supposed to be before binging a season. 😑🙃
I was really upset that Thomas threw out a Chloe redemption arc, especially at the Battle of Miraculous episode. In the same season they showed Chloe being able to resist akumitization, which we'd never seen before. But they threw it all away because "Chloe bad"
It's not even that he undo Chloe's redemption arc, it's *how* he did it. Even if Chloe's arc wouldn't have a "happy ending" and she'd chose to not change, he never bothered to give her even that and just....discarded it altogether as if it never happened, then replace her with her perfect sister that came out of literal nowhere. It borders on satire with how absurd that shift was.
Yaaa and I'm definitely on chloes side on the failed redemption like you stop letting her use her own miraculous and treat her horribly not even letting her help with her own parents, and she's still loyal to you and then she breaks 1 time (which ladybugs friends pretty much do on a daily basis) so you fully take it away... while she also caused all the other identitys to be revealed but does that matter? No. Cause they're ladybugs friends... then her sister comes along and pretty much replaces her stealing her redemption... yaaaay...
i love how thomas said something like "The worst cant be redeemed" while in the finale, hawk moth gets redeemed. DESPITE MENTALLY ABUSING HIS CHILD AND 2 OTHERS, KILLED PEOPLE MULTIPLE TIMES, LITERALLY WILLINGLY AKUMATIZED HIS SON MULTIPLE TIMES AND GIVING PEOPLE ANXIETY BY MAKING THEM THINK THEY HARMED OTHERS, ABUSED 2 IMMORTAL BEINGS AND TORTURED HIS SON IN THE FINALE.
I thought it was fine for cat noir to be more of a comic relief, or "dumber." Seeing as how I think all types of characters have a spot in stories. But... I noticed that his happiness was being sacrificed and that made me sad... Also, now that I'm hearing he was made dumber to make Ladybug look smarter? Why sacrifice a main character like that? It's... Just upsetting. The worst part is they may be doing it unintentionally, without a plan to rebuild him.
@@jewels3400I thought that Cat Noir's personality was like Adrien's vent, his escape from strict parent, busy schedule and "proper behaviour" due his family that choked his real personality. This is ability to secretly sneak from his not very happy life in disguise and be little goofy during his missions with another masked hero. He is only 15. Srry for grammar
Adrien: extremely gifted kid, physically very built with training and very intelligent Chat noir: literally a bumbling idiot, almost never has good ideas, there are multiple episodes in season 1-2 where Adrien is incapacitated/knocked by villians who should not be stronger than him (antibug, vanisher) and Marinette does the ENTIRE THING ALONE
Man, the Chloe thing still gets me on my nerves on a personal level because Chloe reminds me of my little sister so much. Him saying a person like that is unredeemable really makes my blood boil. Children are definitely not the ones to blame when they develop toxic behaviors as a consequence of bad parenting. I can't believe he really made the show to be like "oh poor zoey, she's losing herself in the need of the approval of her mother" but then he doesn't apply the same logic with Chloe for some reason?? Anyways, if he really wanted to make the point that "some people are just bad and don't want to change", dude Lila is right there!! Why drag Chloe into it as well?
Same, im still not over the chloe thing, because it reminds me of myself in the past, i was exactly like chloe, spoiled brat, and a rude person because thats what my surroundings thought me, the attitude of my parents was that, but i still changed. So why cant chloe?
@@roseberryy_ Or just, he don't want it. It’s not because you like a character and you have to impose your ideas. You know that he is no longer alone in writing Miraculous and that the script was written over several years. Thomas himself confessed in a press conference to dislike the redactions of the bad guys (that’s why he doesn’t want to turn Chloe into a nice character). Especially since the scenario has repeatedly shown her destructive behavior: she accuses Marinette of stealing and wants to put her in jail (although stalking someone is also a big problem), she called the firefighters in order to punish everyone (in France calling for nothing help a serious offence of 1 year imprisonment), she repeatedly harassed Marinette and her best friend (push, hit and humiliate her). She uses her father’s cheating and influence to close establishments etc. You are sure to want a reduction. The character may be very bad and I think it is the best for this character. In France, we let authors write their scripts WITHOUT PEOPLE COMING TO MODIFY them. It’s the freedom to write what we want. We don’t let fans decide what to write in it. Especially since the Miraculous team signed a contract to write a series for children from A to Z in a children’s TV channel (Guily and France 4 are the channels that finance the series and they are channels for children from 7 to 10 years olds). And they didn’t plan on making him more mature. Because if it makes it more mature then that means Miraculous will have to be in another channel and lose their funding. The producers of Wakfu (a very popular series in France) have decided to make the series more mature and today we do not know if we will have a season 4 and a final. So pity stopped harassing him about things he doesn’t control or his choice of scenario.
@@housnatzoubert2444 Look, the thing is, if he just wants Chloe to stay a villain he can just say so and I would respect it. What I'm complaining about is him making excuses for himself saying it's because "a person like that cannot change". That's just not true Idc. And showing how Chloe is deeply hurt and has self-steem issues to then make her a villain is a terrible message to send to kids. "Oh a person like that doesn't need help at all, she's just bad don't worry about her :D".
Tbh Thomas doesn’t have a filter, and just a bad mannered person in general. If he wants out community to treat him with respect he should treat us with respect. Also I am a firm Chloe redemption arc fan, and I think she deserves better. Thank you for bringing some of these topics to attention. personally I knew that some of the creators don’t consider their behavior. The fans should know who they are supporting. Again thank you for enlightening us.
A wasted opportunity to make Chloe; 1) have an interesting redemption arc 2) trying to prove her self-worth by being Queen Bee 3) Helping out Ladybug and Chat Noir and/or becoming as sort of ‚rival‘ towards them 4) Trying to make herself a better person than her parents 5) Learning to do better and accept that she was awful back then Etc etc But of course not, Astruc is a 48-year old manchild who just can’t forgive his school bully from +30 - 40 years ago and needs a character to enact his ‚revenge‘ in a petty way
I mean, of course, there are some stuffs that need to be forgotten, but forgetting about our past trauma is not that easy...Trust me...But don't worry i am not protecting that guy. Even i, as a person who got bullied, i will never makes antagonist more stupid since everyone can change. And btw, even if he got trauma, it doesn't excuse the way he destroyed Chloe.. #justiceforchloe
Imagine being so narcisstic/egotistical that you put yourself in your own big animated tv show, and had the plot circle around you not getting enough appreciation for that show. That is just hilariously ridiculous
Like I understand some self inserts. My humour is just self-insert, but like Kenny from South Park Or just incredibly in the background. I DID LOVE THE POTENTIAL however there can be other things that can be played out, but it is thomas astruc so i am not surprised lol
Was following him when season 1 was first airing, and uhh he kinda had a habit of doing that. A fan would ask an honest question, or say 'wouldn't it be cool if...' and he'd berate them for it, and then later on that fan would turn out to have been right and he'd congratulate himself on 'throwing us off'. I think the idea was to keep it a surprise, but after a while it really, *really* started to look like he was just using these fans' ideas haha orz
Also it's just like kinda creepy that Marinette's dad is a self insert for Astruc, Sabine is a insert of an ex of his, and Marinette is like a fanchild between them. I also feel like really bad for Hope Morphin, the person Marc is based on. They used to be friends, but after Hope simply brought up how he used the rising sun flag for Japan, talked very calmly when he responded, and they were completely blocked, no warning. Years of defending him and the show, being friends, all apparently gone from just pointing out him using a flag associated with awful atrocities in his show.
Imagine saying a character isn't traumatized while her mother called her "Chlorine." The antiseptic people use in swimming pools... Or that she wasn't abused when sshe was being neglected by her mother... Which is abuse.
@@shigekax No, he name is Chloé. But he mother calls her the wrong name as a sign that Chloé is neglected. That her mother doesn't even know her name, nor really cares enough.
Yep. I saw such when it was just 1-2 seasons aired. I think the same goes for Truth and/or Wishmaker. One of the smaller ideas I remember was there was a joke Chat had figurines of himself and Ladybug, awhile before that was added to the show
You are pretty "new" to the fanbase, yet managed to make a 30 minute long video; imagine if I told you that what you saw is ONLY the tip of a very deep iceberg that 98% of you have no idea about. Miraculous released in Korea first, so some of us have been following it for a long, long time now. The show got very popular very quickly and in a matter of DAYS, international interest grew at an insane rate. Questions about the show were abundant and people attempting to reach to the creator actually managed to do so. Thomas Astruc was fond of the attention he was receiving and soon enough it was known that he had a "hidden tumblr account" to interact with posts in the shadows and a snapchat account to interact personally with fans who had it; since fans of the show appeared to be much older than the original intended audience, there were instances where fans would flirt with him and send suggestive messages or photos (via snapchat) to get spoilers from the show. There's one extremely popular fan account on twitter who is perfectly aware of this happening because they were directly in contact with one of the girls who did this; this same fan account, therefore, learnt about important spoilers like Hawkmoth's identity by the time less than 8 episodes were out. Winny, one of the storyboard artists, had openly drawn genderbent hentai versions of Chat Noir and he had them on full display on his twitter back when he had very few followers. People only found this very early on, so he managed to delete them. I am fairly certain that these images are still somewhere online, or on some tumblr archive since it did make the rounds when the fandom was in its early infancy. The show got its very start here in korea, so its very first fanbase was strictly korean (though again, it rapidly gained following internationally), yet when some korean fans tried to bring up the issue that most asian characters were modelled quite distinctly, as well as being given pretty cliché stereotypical looks or behaviors, Thomas made fun of us and refused to listen to what originally started as just simple inquiries. He was quite nasty, dismissive and just plain rude, as you all know, but this was the very first time he showed such a side to himself, so it was quite shocking. TL;DR: Everything about Thomas Astruc (and part of the miraculous team) has been sketchy from the start, but the sketchier and more problematic activities are buried so deep within the early-adopter fandom that most of you will never hear about it, seen as he continues to be rude and adding up to his pile.
As a christian, the "Jesus miraculous holder" caught me off-guard. I had to replay to make sure I heard it right, it was kinda funny (because it was stupid) but it was so out of nowhere and if Thomas is a christian too (I'm not sure he is), he should know that it doesn't make sense
21:41 The thing I want to say is that, Chloe’s mom left her, yet Chloe idealizes her and wants her mother to love her back. Also, children that has at least one parent/guardian figure leave their life may feel abandoned, this doesn’t help that Audrey had an affair with another man and gave birth to Zoe although still married to her husband. The abandonment of her mother and the absence of her father ( due to him being the mayor ) and having her BUTLER who isn’t her family raise her can be something of trauma, also Chloe should not be asking her mother “Why don’t you love me?” as a child would have to go through some sort of TRAUMA to have that mindset of a guardian figure. Edit: Also, isn’t Chloe a 14 years old? That means her brain isn’t fully developed so her parents would be the people who are trusted to develop and mature the child.
Seeing it was a kids show I was always shocked Chloe never got redeemed despite the episodes showing visible character growth but apparently none of that mattered and just suddenly disappeared🧐
Honestly, more and more fans crave the show to be from Adrien's POV. Like I don't care if Ladybug is the leader of the duo, but his storyline is far more interesting. Also, isn't it sexist that the main character's (who is a girl) main goal and entire personality *surrounds* a boy?
I wonder if Thomas was actually involved in some of the episodes involving Chloe. Because if we’re NOT supposed to sympathize with her, and despise her instead, why give her a sympathetic background? Why call her a monster when it’s clearly shown that her personality is the result of her upbringing and has SHOWN moments of kindness and change? Giving her the bee miraculous of all things??? I seriously can’t wrap my mind behind his logic.
I think I like the concepts behind Miraculous ladybug rather than the show itself. It has all these interesting ideas, but just doesn't do them very well. The repetitive episodes get old, the pacing is rushed/awkward, and the character development is dismal. At this point, I'm actually more invested in Gabriel's story with Nadia than our main duo, which is kinda sad. Its so frustrating because they had the potential for greatness, but it just always seems to fall flat. Then Thomas barges in thinking this show is godly becaise of his expertise. And no, Thomas, its not.
In my personal opinion, the concept for the show is really good. The love square is *chefs kiss* because it can so easily portray character development; going from Adrien/Cat Noir liking Ladybug to Marinette because that’s who she really is and Marinette/Ladybug liking Cat Noir instead of Adrien because that’s who HE really is? That is extremely clear in portraying that these characters grew up and started liking the real person instead of the polished persona! Bad thing the show refuses to let the characters grow and made Marinette into a stalker and Adrien into a really flat character (from what I remember) making it impossible to care. Like, if we got more focus on Adrien and him being maybe mischievous or SOMETHING whilst himself (not as Cat Noir), it’d be more fun to watch, or maybe seeing Marinette being a normal human for once instead of a lovesick stalker.
Listen, I know Marvel ain’t perfect when it comes to the stories they tell, but at least Stan didn’t make himself the entire focus of the plot when he decides to do a cameo for one of his movies *cough cough Tom*
That’s because Stan Lee didn’t have the ego the size of Russia and didn’t go around insulting his fans for petty reasons. Plus the man just loved cameos, and liked making them in the movies no matter how small they may have been.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios and the cameos on the shows are some of the best. My favorite is in one of the Avengers series (don't remember exactly the one), were Spider Man saved Stan Lee and he gabe him free hot dogs for his whole life. Just wholesome
Another thing that kinda gets back to the Asian issue of people not fully understanding the difference between Chinese and Japanese is people overestimating the connection of Marinette and Kagami, such as them being secret siblings or Kagami helping Marinette connect with her roots. I just read those things and I'm like "Hey, I'm all for character growth and deeper connections, but you do understand that Asia is a continent, not a country, right?"
Yeah. I'm an Asian who grew up in Asia and that kind of mindset confused me at first. Here in Asia, I hear people from my country rant and trashtalk other Asians all the time. Really interesting how people think being from the same continent automatically means we feel connected and have an affinity with each other
Thomas Astruct is straight up despicable, hypocritical and so rude. He insults people for having their own opinion and then blocks people for disagreeing with him? I bet people who "hate" the show doesn't really hate it but hate's how the characters are written or just hate his attitude.
"...Zags art director Nathanael Beonn is the best character designer I've ever seen" ah yes. Best character design. When your main heroes costume is just a plain red spotted body suit.
The costume designs for newer episodes like kuro Neko and penalteam could have been better in my opinion, as well as monarch 🤢cat walkers greasy green ponytail I just don't like it lol
@@mayahodri2002 I think the worst designs are hawkmoth with the stupid full head mask, og ladybug because its so plain, cat walker, caprikid because nathaniels red hair doesn't clash with the black and white, and pegasus because a plain brown suit with almost no details doesn't work
I think Ladybug being akumatized would be a great episode for the show; I also want to assume that the writers are more creative in repeating the Chat Blanc plot. If LB was akumatized and CN saves her, she would give them more character development and better relationship development, making them closer and CN would understand LB a little more.
Could’ve been an amazing Finale for Season 4 tbh. Ladybug getting akumatized after an entire season of stressing over her new role as Guardian and pushing Chat Noir away could’ve been amazing. It would’ve been much more thematically great than Ladybug messing up due to her obsession with Adrien ONCE AGAIN. Ladybug could’ve given Shadowmoth the Yo-Yo while akumatized before Chat Noir manages to defeat her. Same effect, but no strings left hanging with Felix.
If your interested, There is a tumblr blog called The Immaturity Of Thomas Astruc that goes into deep dives about his behavior and how it's problematic. There is a lot of content he's made related to Thomas Astruc and he also reviews each new episode with included screenshots of Twitter arguments related to the episode.
You know, as a manga reader, and as someone who loves to listen to people talk about comics and someone loves to come up with their own ideas for super powers, the part where Thomas tells Mark Millar that _"In 3 seasons of Miraculous, we invented more unique super powers than the whole industry in 3 decades."_ makes me WAY more angry than I'd like to admit...
I remember watching a video about Miraculous that showed a scene where Ladybug had really weird eyes and thought "ah yes, Miraculous, now with Naruto's frog sage mode eyes" because the eyes looked kinda similar
When I was younger, the show still had one season, and I watched it with my mom because a classmate recommended it to me. We were basically just ragging on the show and laughing the whole time because of how absurd it was. At the end of the season, I remember my mom said the ending cliffhanger had some potential, but oh boy did our optimistic views on the show at the time age badly.
Remember when the fandom had very valid complaints on how Tom viewed Adrien vs Char Noir (which was super problematic, I might add) and then went on a "I'm going to screenshot these tweets, post them, slander the op and hope that my loyal followers doxx them"? Yeah. A friend of mine was a victim of the situation. I got blocked by stating how childish it was for him to do that. (Side note: in high school, I sent a letter to Tom stating how the show was amazing and brought a bunch of us from all over the world together. Fast forward a year later, I'm blocked. Fast forward again a few years after that and I get a picture of Marinette in the mail saying "stay miraculous". Thanks Tom.)
As a writer myself, I would be THRILLED to have people asking questions about my work even if it was the same one and I had to explain again and again and again. I love people giving me theories and asking stuff about my work (I'm not a published writer, I'm talking about the people who've already read my drafts of a project I hope to publish in the future). Even if that feedback is negative, I love it all. I don't understand how someone couldn't love that.
As a writer too, I do sometimes recoil at negative feedback. I think most writers do, and it’s not easy to take, especially if the person said it meanly. But I still appreciate negative feedback, because I want to get better, and a lot of complaints I get are legitimate problems, even if it hurts in the moment. I think a lot of people can’t handle their brainchild being criticized because they take it as criticism of themselves. You have to learn to distance critique of your work from critique of you. If you can’t, you end up like these guys.
As a fanfic and aspiring comic author, I completely agree. In fact, as long as there's no disrespect, I *want* criticism. It's the only way to get better. I love it when people ask questions. And some of my favorite comments I've gotten were theories or comments about what happened.
honestly, i kinda forgot kinda everything that happened in Miraculous because everything after like season 2 confused me. the most significant thing i remember from a few years ago when i did watch it was the random ginger artist who had like 2 episodes with a large role and then disappeared in most of the others, 12 year old me really related to him. also i didn't like how the show kept romanticising Marinette's stalking and i died of secondhand embarrassment at most things she did so i just couldn't watch anymore
Ah don't worry. Alya turns to the cam and says "That's not good". See, everything cleared up, stalking bad. (that literally happened and Astruc used that to claim they portray the stalking as bad consistently...)
@@BluePhoenix_ "stalking is bad!! but let's still make the main protagonist, who's presented as a role model for children watching this show, a stalker! that won't be problematic at all!!!"
@@acelittlefire "Exactly,like writing down your crush routine and every move,breaking into your crush's house just to sniff their pillow and etc. It's completely normal!!!!! What?? The main character abuses her powers to stop any girl from "stealing" her crush?? Nah,that's normal too!!!!!!" Honestly if Mari was a side character or if the story wasn't from Mari's pov,the whole fandom would hate her and would acknowledge that she is a creepy stalker.
I watch around an average of 10 mins per episode cuz I have to keep pressing skip 5 seconds when it comes to marinette's irl life. It was a little funny at first but she's gotten away with it for way too long and doesn't take responsibility for her own actions that have gotten people akumatised before. They hinted at her getting better and then it got fucked over again. The way the show doesn't even air in a chronological shows how much of a mess the story is, and yet, it was such a good idea that i just can't stop watching. It's truly infuriating
I might get hate for this, but, I don't think The Owl House is that great like everyone else says it The show had a great idea but a terrible execution
Can we emphasize how Chloe was literally ostracized in Penalteam? Everyone in the class gets a Miraculous, except for her. Putting aside the fact that Marinette hardly even knows half her class on a deeper emotional level and entrusted them with death-defying superpowers, singling out one kid isn't going to help them be happier. Does the writing team realize that Marinette is actively contributing to the toxic environment by treating Chloe like shit? The logic and justification for hating Chloe is so damn elementary, it really shows how mature Astruc is.
@@Popgurliess magic won't let hawkmoth know, who is behind new hero's mask. If hawkmoth was smart enough to understand who's behind new mask, I think he could understand who ladybug is.
@@ozvuchkibilla He kept track of half of all miraculous holders and STILL couldn't realize that every single one of them is directly related to Adrien either as a classmate or a close friend.
23:27-24:00 it literally aged like milk because he literally gave Gabriel a redemption arc (someone who did far more worse things than Chloe) and I AM SO MAD OF THE FINALE LIKE WHHHHHYYYY 😡😡😡😡😡
FR I hated it so much like u had this man do all of these terrible things and now he dies and gets seen as a hero?!?! And all Chloe does is cry in a corner??
I would be fucking proud if people wanted to share their fan theories or fan fiction of any story I wrote. It means they liked your work, inspired them and they might actually give you more ideas to work with. Hell, back when I used to write and friends made fanworks about my OC's I wouldn't stop praising their work. It is not cool to behave like that towards your own community that supports you.
I was actually a part of wn argument with him about something similar. He *LOVES* fan work - provided you don't make one damn CENT off him. He willfully misunderstands the 'fair use' terms and rights for artists - [essentially, as long as it's not taken directly from a screen grab of the original content, people ARE allowed to make and sell work of said material] then turned around and posted a gift of someone saying 'sure, janet'. (Which, IDKWTF is going through his mind). He simultaneously claims that he owns very little in the actual show, yet turns around and claims that it's all him...
Thomas's behavior is scary, to be honest. He does sound like an abusive guy that didn't deserve the spotlight he got. I truly hope people that work under him don't suffer like the fans of his show do. I stopped watching Miraculous, the story got too confusing and also predictable at the same time. and I'm sorry 5+ audiences my ass, this show is at least 10+ audiences. And the show is only ALIEVE thanks to Brazil, yup, Miraculous is so popular around here that the channel that airs it here is now co-owner and co-producers of the show. (It's the GLOOB, that we see on the credits, and the show air first here).
Chloe was assassinated. Re-watch Miraculer, Queen Wasp, Zombizou, MALEDIKTATOR, Anti-bug, and even the terrible Miracle Queen Season Finale. She's genuine. She genuinely cares about what she did wrong even when Ladybug's not around, even when she thinks nobody else is paying attention to her. Playing with Sabrina, smiling at her best friend when she's given genuine affection, asking her trash mom why she doesn't love her daughter, giving Ms. Bustier a birthday gift without anyone else knowing, desperately apologizing to her father for hurting him, and even asking for Hawkmoth to de-akumatize her parents before she joins the dark side.They never once had her give a malevolent smirk behind her actions. Even when she throws a tantrum and Marinette takes the Bee off her, Chloe looks miserably over at Pollen. Not the power in Ladybug's hand, but the new kwami companion/friend she's going to loose without it. She's an anti-hero and could have been the Sympathetic Villain since Hawkmoth is not sympathetic in the least. The man's full of shit. Thomas is a dumbass Share this with him, see what happens😑
@Marinette that is true....Chloe doesn't belong to fans with black and white view....those who think that people are born with bad traits. According to researches, it was said that kids blame elders for their mistakes and knew them to be responsible for their actions but when kids do the same mistakes, they blame the environment. At first researchers thought that this was because that kids were selfish. But then they realized that kids are aware of the affect environment had on their actions but they aren't aware of what drove adults to make those mistakes. As someone who studies psychology in school, I gotta say that this is a black and white view. Maybe try putting yourself in the shoes of people you judge....it'll be a good way of learning how to be more understanding. I myself as as a teen, relate to Chloe a lot....even though I don't like the way she treats others, I understand where she's coming from.
@Marinette did you seriously not read the part where I said I don't like the way she treats people?🙄🙄 And not everyone reacts to problems in the same way. And mind if I remind you that there was absolutely NO ONE to teach Chloe about morals? And secondly, not everyone reacts the same when facing trauma. 🙄🙄 Some people lash out....not because they're evil...but out of desperation. I however tried to conceal myself but after a while I lashed out as well. Now out of fear of hurting people I close myself off from people. That's why I related to Chloe. So please don't judge people before getting to know them 🙄🙄
@Marinette first of all, kids copy their parents That's a scientific fact. Secondly, we're talking about the creators who unknowingly offended a whole freaking nation and instead of promising to fix the problem they went on a blocking spree. So who's more reliable here? Researchers and scientists who studied psychology and humans mind for years or someone who doesn't have the slightest bit of social skills?
@Marinette oh damn. I forgot that more than half of the fandom are just kids who still don't know these stuff. It's alright. I respect your opinion, dear. But I'm sure once you grow older, you'll realize more. When I was a kid, I was just like you....I was so judgmental and never looked at the other sides of the story.
Y’all remember how Thomas said Chloe wasn’t abused because “she’s rich!!” But Audrey neglects Chloe and verbally abuses her while Andre neglects Chloe throughout the series.
Did he... Actually say that? That genuinely is so stupid it's actually angering, especially when you've had experience with a family like that (like I have)
Not to mention that it's the same case for Adrien but Thomas didn't bat an eye
When your own MOTHER can't even remember your name, you can't tell me, that doesn't leave some trauma. And i really don't know about André... but i don't have a feeling, that he even likes her. The only thing, that we see, is a father who abuses his power as the mayor of the city to fulfill any of Chloe's wishes. No matter how absurd that is. He is more a part time slave of her and we never see any bonding moments between him and his daughters.
True but that doesn’t excuse Chloe from her behaviour ….let’s be honest Chloe has white girl privilege . Whenever Marinette does something wrong you all criticize her so so much yet with Chloe you all excuse her behaviour because she’s traumatized from her mother and yes that may play a part but to excuse her behaviour because she has trauma makes no damn sense. I don’t like Marinette as a character because she is honestly creepy and her behaviour towards Adrien isn’t okay but I think you should held them both accountable and stop excusing Chloe’s behaviour just because she has trauma
INKUBATOR
Stop calling everyone racist because they prefer a “white character” over an “asian one”. This is just stupid. Also, the problem with Marinette is that she has no believable reason to be such a creepy stalker and that no one in the show acknowledges that Marinette is incredibly creepy while everyone in the show acknowledges the bad behavior of Chloé. If Marinette actually faced consequences for her actions and learned from them, I wouldn’t hate her but the show doesn’t do that and treats like an angel. Marinette is literally as racist as Chloé, I really suggest you to rewatch the episode where Marinette teams up with Chloé to sabotage Kagami.
It's absurd 💀 Chloe is 14. I'm 1000000% sure he still curses his elementary school bullies, and sees them as the incarnation of pure evil. 50 year old man, guys.
ikr this is something a middle schooler all up in their feelings would write, not somebody my mom’s age lol.
I think chloe is 16 actually
I actually heard that apparently Chloe is based on one of his bullies
@@wolfgirl1178 Nahhhhh fuck that shit we made something up to hyperbolise his cringe and my guy makes it to the damn goal
And apparently Gabriel is more redeemable than her, ya know, the man who neglects and mentally abuses his son on a daily basis?
This is exactly why I think Jeremy Zag is the more mature writer because he can admit to his mistakes and solve the problem, instead of defending himself. Also, he wrote Chloé so well-done in season 2, that it’s disappointing that Thomas sabotaged all of it.
YESS
I prefer Jeremy Zag over Thomas Astruc anyway!
@@NoelJohnCarlo This is why the movies will have an altered narrative that should correct certain characters
@@Radio-97only counting the movie as canon ngl
@@skizzpulse I mean it saves us nerves and five seasons of trash if ONE MOVIE makes everything better
Astruc doesn‘t deserve to be on a writing desk
“Lady Bug is smarter than everyone” Um. She’s a teenage girl with obsessive, stalker tendencies…who does not recognize just how awful her behavior is. She’s not that smart. 😬
Exactly
I mean, she is book smart, but has 0 social understanding
She’s not smart on a school level at all. If I can remember properly she’s forever struggling in class and has to actively try hard so she doesn’t fail. Whilst Adrian (who apparently is stupid when he’s Chat Noir) is literally a gifted student who exceeds every subject. Like how does that work? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have them both working together to figure out how to use her lucky charm/save the day? Also if only Ladybug can use the lucky charm, then it should have been that part of the power is looking at the world and being able to work out how to make it work. So when Adrian was Ladybug then he should have been able to work it out?
That's felix not ladybug
@@heartshapedari oh they have. But then their memory gets erased or oops hawkmoth found out their identities and bad things happened so have to use time magic to erase it all. everything.
I actually laughed when Thomas Astruc has claimed to make better content than Pixar.
Miraculous Ladybug’s plot is a mess.
The timeline is a mess.
The characters are a mess.
The powers are the biggest mess.
In 4 seasons I’ve never seen a show overly contradict itself so many times.
And there has been no development since season one
Thomas Assh*le thinks he’s better than Pixar?! Is he really that gullible?! He makes me laugh! Pixar makes better movies than Miraculous Ladytrash!! LMAO!🤣😂
the animation is not even on pixar's level 💀
@@formerlymakkas Bruh the background characters arent even moving nor speaking. They just make noises and smile.
Y’all ever seen Marinette have a conversation with her friends? Like just talking to them about somethin not related to superhero’s, her hobby’s, Adrien, her love life, or Chloe/Lila?
Yet we’re supposed to believe these guys love and treasure her. The only thing she seems to do is complain to them
Chloe: school bully- Irredeemable
Zuko: literally hunted other children for a good chunk of the series and is One of the best examples of a redemption arc done well
If Zuko can be redeemed after almost burning down a village Chloe is so far away from irredeemable that’s laughable.
So true bruh
Ik This Is 1 Month Late, But Your Speaking Facts.
Heck, just look at sasha from amphibia, or pacifica from gravity falls if you want a quicker redemption arc example!
@@barbararab6390 Exactly
iirc he didn't just almost burn down a village, he burned down Kyoshi Island
“Adrien was created because Felix wasn’t an interesting enough character”- how ironic considering I find Felix way more interesting at this point
Yup, unlike Adrien he has an actual personality
@@dalalalani2261adrien doesn’t have a personality since he is a sentimonster who was isolated so he never really could get to know other people and how to behave around them.But with Felix he isn’t isolated.He doesn’t get the „OMG YOU ARE A MODEL YOU DEFFO HAVE THE MOST PERFECT LIFE“ treatment
This, honestly i hate adrien. I would love felix who turns into a funny guy, that would make since as to why marienett wouldnt know. Honestly the original design it would be sm better
@@Yourmom-cy5yv adrien is a sentimonster who was isolated.Ofc he wouldn’t develop much of a personality.But Felix had freedom.That’s why he is more interesting since adrien is just a typical model.
@@NEUVILLETTE500 exactly, i hate how thomas just simply gives each character an”role”. And then writes whatever. And when u add about how a character obviously does fit that description thomas just pulls the “its my show what i say goes”😓
Like how cat nores flaws are his? Nope because adrien is apparently perfect
Funny story: my friend of mine in the animation industry went to Gobelins for education. Her tutor was Thomas Astruc, who… Came very rarely or did not come at all. He explained his absence by working on one of the Ladybug’s seasons.
In the end, when it was time to hand in the final project, he came and called all his "students" mediocrity and that they had not learned anything. But he had to teach them.
What!! that's insane. Thomas Astruc, sorry I mean ASStruc, is such a hypocrite. Hope your friend did well.
Oh la dinguerie
Well… if his students are ‚mediocre‘ as he said, maybe it is due to the „teacher“‘s own mediocrity.
Thomas needs to learn to get off his high horse… that barely is taller than any other equine
@@Radio-97 exactly
What an asshole. I feel bad for his students.
Moral of story: Support fan content creators. The miraculous office au, the fan comics, the fanfics, the art blogs, anything! If the writing of the show or the creators carrying themselves awfully on Twitter has disappointed you, support the fandom that does canon better than canon.
I just finished the miraculous au and holy shit i didnt think id ever see felix in any content ever
it was a nice breath of fresh air
@@iineedSleep awesome! I love the office au and it got me shipping pv felinette like crazy lol
@@lyrastarstriker7304 fr! I never even considered it a ship until I watched it lmaoo
@@iineedSleep it’s got this feeling to it that just hits different, huh? Got me shipping it so bad I started writing fanfics of it
@@lyrastarstriker7304 stg, no judgement, just watched the episode where they reveal identities to each other I was like "damn uh, this is way to good to be true, are we sure that they'll even REMEMBER this? Remember Chat Blanc..? Yeah.. lesson learned. We still have 15 minutes of the episode left, time for predictions: some shit will probably happen while Marinette and Adrien are in love, Luka will go back in time to fix everything and man, they lost their memories again. End episode where nobody ever brings it up ever again because.. logic"
Low and behold, their memories were erased, ONCE AGAIN.
I've been thinking of writing a fanfic as well but where they actually confess, fall for each other and find out who each other is. I'm so tired of this repetitive shit every seasonnnn
Thomas handles the whole "feminism" thing SO BAD. the irony in the fact that he had to make adrien dumber just to put ladybug in a good light? hello? ur telling me a girl cant be smarter than a guy w/out him being a moron ?? and if the main point of the ladybug being the more prominent hero is to act as a role model for young girls, why make her an obsessive stalker, who abuses her powers for a GUY? again, irony. i watched this show as a kid, and i tell you, i HATED marinette even then. she was the furthest from a role model to me. she made me so uncomfy it was ridiculous.
Yeah, ironically, the only way for a girl character to be smarter than everyone else is for everyone else to be stupid 💀
He doesn't even realize the implications behind that, and he is quite literally the anti-feminist/sjw movement's WETTEST DREAM of a person.
For real! Mari is in no way the girlboss fem icon for young girls that Thomas seems to think she is. She's a selfish boy-crazy stalker. The forced romance is so unnecessary! It just shows to young girls that if you fancy a boy, it's totally okay to STALK him and everyone will excuse and enable it. It's so weird how a lot of the fandom also supports it and roots for their endgame.. If it were a guy, people would riot.
In my opinion feminism if both sides are represented equal. If the job of one side is shown as much more important it's no feminism. Besides constantly showing that girls are better than boys? That's in a way sexism against boys. I'm a man of complete equality so I honestly don't think this whole duo thing is handled well.
I mean I watched Kim Possible, Ron has more heroic and day-saving moments than Chat Noir, and he is meant to be the sidekick in every way, not the partner like Chat Noir
@@lucifer-librarian9562 no yea ur right, its not an opinion tho its a fact. Femisim is to fight for rights equal to that of men. So yeah what Thomas is doing really isn't feminism at all, just the opposite.
@@raet6375 even luchia nanami is more girl boss and she is boy crazy
Not only that Thomas thinks that Chloe can't change - he thinks it's normal to stalk someone. Marinette literally stalks Adrien, once stole his phone, broke into his house once and Thomas thinks that this is normal. He is ruining his own show, characters like Chloe and Adrien deserve better shows and way better treatment from the creator.
And the fact that he defense Marinette saying that her stalking "it's for comedy" but isn't also part of Chloe's bullying and comments also made for comedy sometimes? Why Marinette can be forgiven but Chloe isn't?
He's a hypocrite
There's a pretty recent episode where Marinette herself acknowledges the stalking is crazy and denounces it, hopefully they follow through with that growth and she actually stops doing it
@@seymourkrelborn4780
Knowing the writing the show, she'll revert back to square 1, but I am holding onto hope
@@daniboy4153 This show has a tendency to backpedal on character development, sometimes in the last 5 minutes of the same episode, but I hope this was the plan for the stalking thing from the start and she actually grows past it
What's confusing to me is that Chat Noir's costume is so detailed and then you have Ladybug's costume which is extremely basic.
I know I’ve always liked his outfit better because of it.
Literally everyone‘s costume has more details than hers (well, except that one time when Adrien used the snake miraculous. Ugh… horrible)
And yet she‘s still treated as the main protagonist and the smartest hero of them all
@@taki7546We are talking details, not beauty, his snake miraculous costume was absolutely awful (because he looks bald, like father like son lol) but it was definitely more detailed than hers (no hate to LB or Aspik)
I’ve seen some people say that Ladybug has one of the best outfits like what? 🤨 I mean come on she’s supposed to be a Fashion designer and THIS is my girl be wearing??? 😭
@@estrellahidalgo6208fr her outfit look like an Amazon pajama for little kids
As someone who can relate to Chloé on that parent thing, seeing him saying that she doesn't have trauma from that is disappointing 😐
I can easily relate, and I'm sorry it made you feel that way
And the fact that the show keeps treating this like it is her fault, like NO, Chloé is a CHILD, imagine thinking it was Chloé's fault that her mother left her.
@@gabiruh8306 ikr! like, it's basically victim blaming almost, pretty much this: "how dare Chloé be neglected by both of her parents???? 😠😠😠😠😠"
He does this because he based her off a childhood bully. Which is literally the most pathetic thing a 47 year old man can do.
@@cellinemartins How DARE she wants her mother's aproval, ugh, she doesnt care about her mother's feelings at all what a bad daughter 🙄😤
I just remembered the time he randomly decided mid show that Luka will be Juleka’s twin. When someone on twitter asked to clarify if Luka is Juleka’s older brother or twin brother he just said yes 💀
I mean maybe he was born first, but they borned the same day, so that makes them twins, but it also makes Luka slightly older by minutes/seconds/hours.
@@vernyulkisasszony4708 I'm pretty sure he was at first confirmed to be 17 and then they changed it for sake of his romance with Marinette
Then later on said they are the same age. Which doesn’t make sense. Luka already has a job, his own guitar shop & is mature so it shows that he is older
To be fair you can have a job at 17, owning a shop is a maybe. I’ve seen it done before if they had the help of a legal adult. But yeah, the show is very inconsistent.
I havent watched miraculous in a bit but Luka owns a guitar shop now??
Fun fact: Chloe doesn't change because the writer don't let her change, multiple times they assassinated her character just to put other characters up, she already had a change but they changed her back into the horrible person she started as
what did she do to them
Childhood bully I think @Kingbeat1
As a writer/artists/editor, miraculous ladybug has taught me a numeral ways on how to NOT make romance, characters and pacing. All the time the characters forget the progress from past episodes, but more on contradicts on it’s morality.
The fact it’s a kids show doesn’t exempt marinette’s stalker behavior and straight disrespect. Now that people call this out, it’s obvious Tom tries making chat as bad to make her look better*.
This this!
It wasn't even supposed to be a kids show! It was for teens.
@@regunachapex7838Yeah, I remember hearing that! I just can't remember if they decided not to or just changed the story so much that whoever rates shows and movies in France decided it was okay. Some other countries that dubbed the show, if not most, did too.
yeah i liked how in one episode they tried to explain why marinette sucks with talking to adrien with "oh chloe fucked up her first crush by manipulating kim (which wasn't hard because kim has 0 braincells, the twitter norm) now she got PTSD"
i am certain they didn't care
I re-resd this and thought you meant Tom as in her dad 😅
" keeping kids safe from sensitive matters "
Hmmmm..... I-Isnt his main character a STALKER???????? Didn't she break into someone's home???????
YES
I think it's better to just show every religion and not preach them. Like how Rugrats had the Haunaka special.
@@icecreamhero2375 yeah ouo
@@ines1084 I'm a Christian too and I don't mind the joke. Everyone has said dark jokes from time to time. It's not like Marinette said that in the show.
@@icecreamhero2375 exactly ! And the worst part is thomas 100% understands the fact that he CAN show representation to religious people without forcing down those beliefs on his audience. The excuse of " we need to protect the children" is one that is regularly used by the people who advocate for Islam to be made illegal here in France.
Most politicians who are extremely racist and want to get rid of the (quite big) muslim population in france go to the news and say the exact same things that thomas is saying. Its genuinely become extremely obvious to anyone now that whenever someone says "religion is a private manner" its double speak for "I dont like you and your faith and you should keep it to yourself because it pisses me off. If you wanna practice, go back to your home country".
Astruc’s reaction to the people who love Chloe is so disheartening. His excuse that “Chloe couldn’t change” is bs. We were on a solid redemption arc when Astruc decided he didn’t like her popularity and decided to scrub her character arc on the most ridiculous manner. if it was a “micro-deed” maybe the fandom wouldn’t be so upset. But Chloe showed she was capable of change multiple times! No wonder we were so upset when he trashed her arc and introduced Zoe. (No hate to Zoe.)
@@mialluring I don’t have issues with Zoe as a character, just how her character arc was handled. She is just a replacement Chloe. No matter how nice or sweet she seems, she doesn’t add to the show. From Despair Bear, it was clear that Chloe could and would redeem herself. Until the internet blew up about Queen bee and Astruc got jealous of his own success. We’ll never get vesperia merch. All the planned merch was Queen bee and they will keep making it for money despite Chloe’s ruined narrative arc. And Astruc will never let Zoe get more popular than Marinette. I love Marinette but all the heroes can be loved equally.
@@Authorsophiespruce And this is why fanfiction is better handled than the actual canon.
@@Jellygirl313 idk I'm not a big fan of fanfiction... I like to stick with the canon even tho how much of a mess it is, it's actually quite hilariously entertaining 🤣
Isn't fan fiction easier to do? rather than storyboarding, animating, choosing lines, voice acting, only having a limit of time in one episode (ik they kinda wasted alot of time on this), also making sure the episode gets the final cut etc..
Edit: I don't really know if the makers of this show has any problems behind the scenes when making episodes
@@regaec5908, both haves ups, and downs it depends on what you're writing to be exact, and besides that there's usually one or, at most a few people working on a fan-fiction, a show can have multiple writers, and overall has a lot of people working on it... to me, what matters is the heart put into a piece which fan-fiction is almost always full of. I'm certain some of the Miraculous Ladybug crew adore the show but, those few against a fan who might've been thinking about the show for months on end, and has been drowning in fan-content is unmatched.
Also, fan-fiction is almost always better, and that's not just for Miraculous Ladybug, with fan-fiction you can look for exactly what you want therefore look for your exact interests, and enjoy it more, there's tragedy, slow burn, fluff, etc., and you don't need to struggle to get there as it's right in front of you. I personally say fan-fiction is harder _especially if you're trying to write a huge one hundred thousand words piece which if animated would probably be longer than an episode_ since it's usually one person working on it, and sometimes for months meanwhile there are multiple people working for different sections for a show, it's still hard to make the show yeah but, that's what the big team is for, a fan-fiction writer has nothing but, their love, passion, and writing wits... it's wonderful when you find that one piece that you resonate with.
@@MechanizedAngelz nice of you to share, but I'm not the kind of person who likes to read, I'm very bad at visualizing/imagining and understanding scenes that happen in stories, i did go in fanfic territory but not miraculous but for a different show, yes there were good ones, weird and BAD ones
I like to watch and observe it's easier for me, I've love cartoons/animation since i was little and i still do,
Idk what company/network owns miraculous, cause like other companies/networks(cartoon network, disney, nickelodeon) they seem to limit their shows like: the main character has to be a child/kid, the show must not get too dark for kids, it must be episodic not serialized, dumb things down/cut things out, no lgbtq rep, etc... (Amphibia and The Owl House, matt and Dana's original ideas for their shows have to be changed a bit, specially TOH cause it got cut short), money is also involved, merch etc...
I think most people working in miraculous are just doing their jobs, (not putting passion/effort in the show anymore, imo), also i think the show is getting dragged/stretched out to be longer, so that they can sell lots of merchandise, toys, jewelry etc, for money.... In my opinion
Also miraculous is still a kids show that doesn't make any sense 😂
Before I get to Tom’s part, I’m gonna throw my two cents in on Tom.
He’s practically a man-child. He can’t take criticism, and his characters aren’t great, and his excuses for things are forced and lame. I remember when I started writing stories and fan-fictions and things along those lines. I acted exactly like Tom did; people told me my character needed more development, I was passive-aggressive with them. People gave me hate, I blocked them.
I was nine at the time. Thomas Astruc has about the writing mindset of a nine-year-old. I mean, when I was nine my storylines didn’t make sense either, so there’s that.
He needs to grow up and make better decisions. He’s almost 50.
He probably never will since he's that old
He's clearly an outright narcissist.
But unlike you Thomas is a grown man running a show that everyone wants to watch but the bad writing from willful ignorance is losing the support he had. There’s nothing wrong with criticism if your writing fanfics, but you also have every right to NOT listen to it and block people who harass you, especially at such a young age.
But it’s funny how fanfictions are doing a greater job than the show ever will and it’s all because a grown man can’t handle simple criticism to improve the trash show.
I understand having an attachment for your darlings, but disregarding genuine attempts of constructive criticism won't lead you anywhere.
So it's like Sensist?
“My relationship with the show, Miraculous ladybug, is *incredibly complicated* “
Said every person that watched Miraculous ladybug
Me dodging all the red flags with the show
I don’t like it at all.
It's like, you like the show, but you also hate it at the same time 😭
As a chloe stan, I legit dropped this series and Just comes back to check if they ever released an ending yet. I'm too lazy to deal with all this 💩
Agreed, I’m just awestruck by people who think this show is a work of art💀
Thomas has this weird obsession with making Marinette the center of attention. But instead of simply making her a better character, he changes every other character getting more attention so we start hating them. As someone who saw Chloe's redemption arc in real time, we were all starting to love her and making art of her, more than Mari. And suddenly Chloe's evolution was made backwards for no real reason.
I totally agree, Marinette has done a lot of unforgivable things but It's okay because thomas think it's cute and clumsy to be stalker and abuse of her power for personal reasons. Ladybug and Marinette whatever is not a good character but Chloé was and she was really becoming a good person with real motivations and background, She had a better writing than Marinette that's why he did that. Because he found out that people started to like Chloé more than Marinette.
I think I know the reason. it's like you said, Thomas wants to give Marinette all the attention. 💀
Ughr yeah same goes to the rest of the class. Everyone seems to be forcefully changed to make mari look good and ofc support addrinette ship
I kinda disagree on the Chloe thing, it teaches kids that sometimes people aren't redeemable and won't change no matter how many chances you give them. Chloe never seemed like someone that was ever going to learn her lesson tbh.
@@astrid768 ye but they done that even horribly, she seems immediately back to being the typical mean girl and worse (particularly s4 like yikes)
Did you know that Thomas Astruc has 2 self-inserts? Himself of course, and Tom Dupain, Maris Dad. Apparently he had a chinese girlfriend named Sabine and Marinette is their envisioned daughter; he sees himself as her father. It only makes sense that he sees his girls blond bitch bully as a irremediable monster. Some fans asume that Chloe is based on another ex or childhood bully, interestingly in a piece of concept art Mari, Chloe and Alya sit at a fashion show and have fun. Would not be surprised if Zoe became Marinettes second BFF in season 5
Jesus...
I wish he stuck to writing fan-fiction instead of writing this shitshow.
The guy has clearly a fetish for Asian women. He did the same in Code Lyoko.
Him seeing Marinette as his daughter...Makes that naked fanservice in that comic even more disturbing...
@@KittyKatty999 Brain Bleach, now
I totally forgot this one
I wish the fandom could just rewrite the show and erase the original from everyone’s memories
The fandom is more toxic than an average k-pop fandom.
@@niharikatripathi43209 correction: I wish someone else would just rewrite the show and erase the original from everyone’s memories.
It’s like the scriptwriters have never met teenagers 😭
@@lathika9976I'll write it! I may dislike the show but I'll write it!
@@moony00 😭 oml if you do pls send me the link I’d def read the shit out of that
@@lathika9976 got it!! I'll try my best to make it good!
"Miraculous is, at this point, objectively trash"
Saying this show is trash is like saying Melina from Elden Ring looks absolutely gorgeous. We all know it's true.
omg hi 😭
Damn, hello Cyrus
I knew I would find you here xD
CYRUS Hi Cyrus 👋🏾😀
Well it's trash but I'm seeing it to the end hopefully cause watching It leads to braincells loss
My question is, if Chloe is _so irredeemable_ then why even make a redemption arc if it would only be destroyed in the end? Her development was one of my favorite things in the show. MLB has so much potential, but it always manages to be a disappointment.
apparently astruc wasnt working on the show for chloe's redemption arc. when he got back instead of going with it he overhauled all of her character development
Because Astruc wants people to come into the show at any episode and not be lost. He wants to keep it episodic and formulaic meaning that it'll stick to the same formula for the next season and the season afterwards. We get no new main villain other than Hawk Moth, characters don't develop (and when they do it's instantly retconned), and Marinette and Adrien will keep at this stupid slow burn of a romance with no new tensions or interesting story arcs or character arcs to keep viewers invested.
Even other formulaic shows like Power Rangers and Sailor Moon knew to spice things up and develop the story and characters otherwise the shows would get boring.
Exactly. And that just makes me sad as someone who has been more intrigued with this show more than any other show in my life.
@Ebony_Sunflower exactly! 💯
@@inky5574 exactly... sadly. But yet, that only made the show more confusing at this point. 😭
'chloe is there to represent that some people don't want to change'
um... i think gabriel agreste fits that perfectly, and if she did change for the better that would make the show immensely better. I think a message to the kids that WOULD be appropriate is that anyone can change and no one has a 'static character', but rather 'dynamic'.
Also, idk if anyone else has noticed, but half of the character cast has almost been forgotten from the show altogether. Nino? The Class? Ms Bustier, which i should mention helped chloe for the better? the rest of the freaking WORLD that they built in the first 2 seasons? where did they all go??? and what's with giving out the miraculous like its *candy*? Also really don't like how they've given/taken away basic character from characters just to give someone else the spotlight, thats super bad writing.
Lila fits the bill too. She literally said to Ladybug in Volpina that they'll never be friends and after over 3 seasons, Lila still hates Ladybug and she still makes up BS stories.
@@victoriaescobedo5458 YES OH MY GOD i really don't know what thomas has against chloe OR the concept of giving all characters equal spotlight.
Another rant for my sanity's sake, his claim of, "oh some details in the episodes might seem unimportant but in the end it really comes together"
Sir. As a creator, if you require your audience to look at your story multiple times in order to understand the basic plot, then you're telling the story wrong. Good storytelling gets straight to the point and tells the audience what they want them to know and/or understand and they do it in the most understandable way, like body language or dialogue. It INFURIATES ME how much Miraculous has ignored this in so many of their episodes and the recent plot overall, and yet it's considered a 'remarkable' show. Yeah, remarkable in its profits.
Basically how I feel.
All of that turned into mind controlled zombies who always react unanimously to a situation/character and it just makes it all so boring and cringe, it reminds me of those fanfics that 10 years old write, except they are excused for making that mistake, unlike adult people working on a TV show. They are constantly used to TELL us how amazing a certain character is, their only purpose is to be this stupid crowd just to show how smart ladybug/Marinette is. Remember the episode Laila was introduced? Everyone imidietly got brainwashed by her, they all just lost their personalities, they didn't have their own opinion anymore, but Marinette? Oh she's the main hero and we have to make it visible by making her the only person to be able to think and act like an actual human being. I know in shows there will always be this crowd of people that serves as a background, but they problem is they gave those guys character, they started to flesh them out and then they just forgot about all that and turned them into mindless puppets
@@ao3dianeorwell THIS!
Astruc is legit just a manchild at this point. Saying that a 14 year old bully is inherently evil and irredeemable is just so wrong. I swear he had a crush at high school who most likely rejected him and then he just portrayed her as Chloe
Pretty sure Chloe is actually based on his childhood bully and he takes his anger out on her or something
Honestly i think h is just weird about the main characters, he wanted them to be perfect in everyone eyes but honestly i just get the feelings he is living a weird fantasy through them☠️
@@Yourmom-cy5yv He literally believes that Miraculous is a masterpiece, and that every character is perfectly written, as seen in many tweets of his
@@pwpqwq7648 ong and if anyone criticizes it, he just throws a fit and blocks them. Idek why a writer for a show can openly act like this yet still be broight back to make more shows
@@Yourmom-cy5yv Unfortunately, when he gained more power, his ego also grew, like, a LOT. He is legit constantly bashing other creators all the time to this day, saying even worse things than the ones shown in this video
The fandom’s creativity is what keeps me in after this many years because I’ve seen beautiful art and read fics that put some books to shame
Hate but love to see it.
I need to see those fanfictions. 😂
@@miss_chelles1338 the fanfictions >>> the actual show
fic recs please? im desperate for GOOD miraculous content
Ooooh really can you give us link to the fanworks? It's ok if you can't
Honestly I think Jeremy Zagg loves his show and his company so much but not Thomas’ version… hence why he’s making a movie and Thomas isn’t writing it. I think Jeremy is a solid guy for acknowledging the wages and fixing it, but it makes me wonder what else is going on in his company that he’s unaware of.
He's an expansionist. He likes bringing new ideas into the same theme. I doubt it's his fault that the company had issues when he was focusing on making new projects and stuff.
Yeah! I think Jeremy Zag is pretty much better than Thomas Astruc anyway.
Oh i didnt know thomas didnt make the movie, i might actually watch it now, knowing how bad the show is right now, the only thing that could make a new show come would be a full on reboot
@@riroufudoI really enjoyed the movie. It has more character progression than the show has in five seasons
@@lorieslori8051 well maybe ill watch it then
I'm so glad more people are seeing Thomas's true self. He's a pretty immature person and a lot of his views and interactions, a lot being with fans who are minors, are very odd. He has a big ego bc of how big miraculous is, but that credit mostly goes to the fan creators and even then he's mean to them too.
Yep...
I'm so fricking disturb of the comic where miraculous got naked and had to wear just a box, then she stumble upon a group of big black guy (mostly), I thought it was gonna turn into a r**e hentai. His definitely entertaining the idea... Ugh..
@@adrenalineactivate what-
Right😔
@@adrenalineactivate imagine being such a vile, gross ass man that you imagine that, create it, then publish it to an audience of mostly children. He should’ve lost his career after that. Truly.
Hilarious how Thomas portrays himself as the epitome of feminists when his main female character is probably one of the most poorly written female characters I've had the misfortune of seeing.
Can you name any personality trait Marinette (Not Ladybug) has other than "Ouchie! I slipped and fell! I'm so clumsy umu 🥺" and "OMG ADRIEN MY HUSBAND 😍😍😍". That's literally all she is.
Yeah.
Ladybug is not good either she is a marysue who has forced writing and a hypocrite.
Marinette is intead one of the most badly written characters I had the misfortune of watching unlike Adrien and chloe she didn't have any potential that got wasted
She was bad from season 1.
@@rawdasalmataman7908
Not to mention how both Marinette and Ladybug are constantly being pushed out to be these "amazing, loving and caring people", when so many times throughout this show, Marinette has been such a catty, vindictive bitch. People get mad at Chloe for being a mean girl to everyone around her, but nobody seems to ever fault Marinette for literally shit-talking a girl who did nothing to her besides having a relationship with the boy she likes. And why Marinette is angry Kagami and Adrien got together is beyond me since... you know... Marinette literally never shoots her shot and avoids any possibly moment she can actually have developing a relationship with Adrien. Like girl, no shit other girls are gonna be jumping at Adrien, YOU NEVER DO IT YOURSELF. And for once, Adrien actually has a girl who wants him for HIM and not him for being what he is on the surface, that being a model or rich man's son. Kagami and Adrien actually connect because they both struggle with having a parent who's either absent or way too involved, yet Marinette just can't look past that bias because it's like she's deluded herself into thinking that Adrien is already hers WHEN HE'S NOT.
@@puppetpawss Yeah.
In lies they showed that kagami likes Adrien not catnoir which feels weird to me because kagami is not like that
Her interactions with catnoir were actually nice and they work well together even if there moments are not that many.
Chloe is mean but it doesn't seem like anyone likes her or even see good in her except Adrien and miss bustier also chloe has bad parents she has a reason for being the person she is.
However Marinette has a good life and good parents
Everyone seems to like her even Adrien who sometimes see her stalking him
I don't blame him since he knows nothing about the outside world and his communication skills are not good but I am just saying.
Marinette is a creepy stalker and she has no backstory to explain why
For example toko from danganronpa she is similar to Marinette not her personality but has she acts around her crush
Toko is stalks her crush I mean not like Marinette I mean Marinette went into Adrien 's room and smelled his pillow I don't remember toko being that level of creepy but toko still says togami is her boyfriend even though he is not however toko had a really rough childhood and a backstory that explains why she is like that.
Also toko is not supposed to be a role model for kids.
@@rawdasalmataman7908
As well as Toko generally gets the back-end of her stalkerish behavior, which is deserved. Togami doesn't put up with it, shuts her down, and generally she gets her comupence for the behavior she displays, usually because her character in the first game is kinda just around for comedic effect.
But Marinette is constantly forgiven for her behavior by Adrien, and her friends and even Tikki encourage the way she acts.
And that's another whole issue too! Chloe has a mother who couldn't give a shit about her and a father who enables her behavior but isn't actually there for her and doesn't display love for her besides giving her whatever she demands and basically nothing else. In a sense, she essentially doesn't really have a parental figure in her life, because your can't even really call Andre and Audrey parents. Just two adults in Chloe's life who sometimes take care of her.
Which also makes sense as to why Adrien sympathizes with her and Kagami. He sympathies with the two because they share a story. Chloe's abusive and neglectful parents, Adrien's dead mother and neglectful father, Kagami's mother who's a combination of both strict and uncaring. Adrien is sympathetic because he knows their stories and he can relate to them.
Where as Marinette, who only knows them on the outside, doesn't understand her issues, and therefore is unsympathetic. And while that wouldn't be her fault if she was still unaware of what life is like for these characters, the issue is she IS aware and STILL treats these characters horribly. She knows Audrey is a horrible mom, she knows Kagami doesn't have a lot of experience with making friends because of her mother's strictness, and she at least seems somewhat aware that Gabriel is not exactly an ideal father, yet she continues to squander these characters and treat them like dirt for no other reason than the fact that they're not completing this pitch perfect life she invisioned in her head. It's honestly just saddening.
@@puppetpawss Well toko also is not as bad as Marinette to be honest.
Also toko has a logical reason to why she actually likes byakuya according to her trauma.
Marinette is like yuno gasai
I won't say she is worse because I think yuno is a bad person and a bad character
Marinette is pretty bad but not as bad as yuno.
Marinette is like yuno that she has no reason to like Adrien and she is ready to get rid of any girl who gets close to Adrien.
Theory:
1. Thomas came up with a fun concept. The magic system was simple with easily marketable jewelry giving power ups to random people. Throw in the high school setting to hit the target demographic, which also enables dating and coming of age tropes.
2. He took his ideas to a creative team and rolled 5 natural 20s or something, and got an AMAZING team of actors and animators that pushed MLB into the success it is.
3. As the show grew his ego got out of hand and refused to let better writers work on the storytelling, because he wanted to keep the fame and notoriety.
Conclusion:
What we got. A delightful magic system that lends itself to OCs/fan fiction, basic character tropes and setting people can latch onto, and better than it deserves visual/audio talent.
MLB is a beautiful mess. It has no coherent narrative or plot progression. It's animated and voiced by talents that make it seem better quality than the story is. And it has a creator that desires personal attention over the improvement of the story.
I like MLB. In theory anyway. The magic is a fun concept, the setting and coming of age is the type of story I like, and it's pretty. But it's story is such a pile of dung that I don't respect it anymore. If anything I just feel pity to the voice actors and animators who have to play these Looney Toon puppets. Even when I know the plot is dumb, the shows aesthetics pull me in and nearly convince me that this is a good show. But it isn't. And that's what's frustrating. I've stopped watching it after season 4, but I stopped loving it after the NY special. It's better in my imagination.
Edit: Just to clarify. When I said dating, I am meaning crushes and romantic attraction. Not anything sexual. I should've used better phrasing beforehand.
Second Edit: I'm not saying Thomas came up with magic jewelry or transformation magic or even the Love Square. I'm saying he put his own spin on it. Nothing is completely new and magical girl stuff has been around for ages. Magic items even more so.
personally, I don't think that Thomas really came up with the concept of magical jewelery being given to people as I have seen it in plenty of precure show before like glitter force doki doki which was released two years before miraculous. English is not my native language so sorry for any grammar mistake.
💯
They are were 13 in season one then 14 in season 2 onwards, by US standards they'd be Freshman in High School
Just to clear the confusion the children are in « 3e » which is the last class of middle school in France 😅
FACTS
If Zuko, someone who tried to hunt down a saviour, disregarded and betrayed his uncle, committed a various number of atrocities can be redeemed then I'm sure a teenager with parental issues can be redeemed as well.
Spoilers
He ried to kill/Capture 3 kids in 3 months(book 1) + the season 2 ending
@@nicolas._.2294 There's no need for a spoiler warning since I've already watched the show.
@@XIAO-j9o oh yea, I put it for people who would if they would read my comment....like 2 days ago I posted something about avatar book 3 and somebody told me that I should have put spoilers warning becs he was at book 2
@@nicolas._.2294 Oh, my bad😢.
@@XIAO-j9o
I feel like in a somewhat more grounded show that doesn't quite fly as well,
Bad people come from bad people, you can rationalize their actions and feel sympathy for them but you don't have to forgive them and redeem them, especially if they don't change,
I think that's the lesson,
Someone's past doesn't justify their current actions,
It only rationalizes them
I have a theory. Thomas Astruc is an abusive helicopter parent. Think about it.
Marinette is his fantasy daughter with an ex, which is why her parents are named Tom and Sabine. Marinette can do no wrong in his eyes, which is why she can get away with a lot of questionable things like stalking her crush. When Astruc wasn't in charge, the show had better writing, but when he came back, he made things back to the way he wanted it to go and the writing sucks. He makes sure that his "daughter" have everything that she needs to "succeed", not noticing or caring that it is helping (the show) fail in the long run. He blocks anyone who points out the flaws in his "perfect" fantasy. He doesn't make sense, yet he is acting like he is always right and everyone else is in the wrong. He blocks fans because they disagree with him on how he is running his show.
Prove me wrong.
And Now I Know If Thomas Ever Had A Daughter Irl Who Behaves EXACTLY LIKE Marinette, Thomas Wouldn’t Do A Damn Thing About It Instead He Will Support Her All The Way 🙄
I honestly love how detailed this theory is. It's kinda scary how accurate it can be 😳
i can’t wait until season 6 and 7, since i heard he won’t be writing it. the show has so much potential but they’ve done so many things wrong
@@emma-vb8ys Jeez how many seasons does this show plan on having?!
@@Mintii000 Look on the bright side, the dude won't be writing the plot. It's gonna be more decent with him out.
Thomas Astruc isn’t just rude to his “haters”.
He’s openly rude to fans who come up with their own theories, says his show is better than others (Winx Club, Tangled the Series, and The Incredibles, among others, two of which are owned by Disney, the company that airs the show so he’s essentially biting the hand that feeds him), he doesn’t own up when he does something people are rightfully offended by (fumbling the message in Qilin by having Marinette APOLOGIZE to a man who was racist to her mother/the police were brutal towards her when the message was supposed to be “don’t be racist/police brutality is wrong”, naming a black character assumed by Marinette to be a looter Ghetto Blaster, having characters be walking offensive stereotypes like in Kung Food, and including a racist flag that angered multiple Korean fans), bashes Fanfiction, would rather bait fans than include good representation, dumbs down characters to make plot points work (ex: To cover up her lie about her sprained wrist, Lila says “I once saw someone get jabbed in the eye with a napkin” and everyone, including Max who was smart enough to build his own robot/create his own game, automatically believes her over Marinette, automatically assuming Marinette is just jealous), and he thinks fans who take commissions are stealing.
You would think a creator would at least have enough sense to not insult his fans, but considering he also insults other creators, I shouldn’t be surprised.
He is so detestable
@@nevaehhamilton3493sis, that’s too much, calling him out for being an asshole is one thing but calling him a pedophile is just crossing the line. Like where is the proof off of that?
@@PrettyBabyAngel I overreacted. It tend to let my emotions do more of the talking than my judgement. I apologize.
@@nevaehhamilton3493then delete that dang comment sheesh
@@nevaehhamilton3493it's alright. I hope you're fine now.
Very bold to bash fanfic creators when zoe's ENTIRE character fits the bill for a bad wattpad oc. No mention of the character in canon before she's introduced, getting a miraculous within knowing marinette for a couple weeks, the whole not like other girls thing she has going on. Her entire character and every plotline relating to her feels like it's fanfiction and not in the good way.
She was solely created to show what an awful human being chloe is. I don't even like chloe that much. I think she was fine as the villain and while if they wanted her to stay that way, they shouldn't have given her those sympathetic moments in previous seasons. But tbh I don't see the fandom fervor over making a racist bully into a redeemable character after she already regressed back.
Does this mean I like how her character is handled in the show currently? Not really. Chloe was always supposed to be the school bully, not some grade A supervillain with no feelings. Tbh the only reason Chloe is nearly as bad as she is in canon rn is because so many people wanted her to be good and Astruc clearly hates the idea of anyone disagreeing with his thoughts on the characters and buckled down to make her as awful as possible.
Zoé is literally the stereotypical Y/N, she's even the long lost sibling of an existing character
also....how tf does zoe exist? she and chloe are the same age, with different fathers but the same mother. Their mother either got pregnant directly after giving birth or, she was pregnant with both daughters at the same time (very rare, but actually possible - if youre y'know doing the do with two guys at the exact same time) by all rights zoe canno exist
@@whatteamwildcats4033 If timed right, you could have siblings be about 11 months apart and in the same grade. The older one just missing the grade deadline with the younger just making it.
I agree for the most part, though I think good writers should be able to pull off giving a character like Chloe some sympathetic moments and redeeming traits without her having a full-on redemption arc. Having her try to become better, but for the wrong reasons and ultimately fail is a little tragic and quite interesting in concept at least. Alas, what we got was rather half-baked, and then in S4 it only went further downhill. I was never really a fan of Chloe either, but I did find her potential quite interesting, at least in S2.
It's really frustrating how any depth to her character was either thrown out the window or is outright contradicted later just to make her look bad. S2 Chloe was literally told by her own mother how the only exceptional thing about her is her mother, then S4 Chloe can suddenly boss her mom around and order her to send Zoe back to the US? How does that add up?
And Zoe is obviously just a plot device, but not even a good one. She could've very easily been used to make Chloe spiral further by just having a better relationship with their mom, thus feeding into Chloe's established insecurities, and that could've led to Chloe trying to get rid of her through different means. Zoe getting akumatized could perhaps happen because she actually wanted to have a good relationship with her sister. But welp, I guess we just can't have even just remotely nice things in this show.
Chloe and Zoe are both wasted characters in my opinion, Zoe basically has one personality, and Chloe’s character development was going great until they tossed it out the window.
something that really bothered me in the VAs being replaced thing was: if the thing hadn't been resolved, they would probably look for inexperienced VAs to replace, young people who are just starting and don't know what's a good and fair payment. they would probably receive the same amount of money as the former VAs or worse, even less because they're, again, inexperienced. as someone who just got accepted into theater school and had plans to become a VA, this is such a shitty and shady thing to do
The reason they didn’t make the VA was because ladybugs suit had epileptic problems
@@leviallday VA means voice actor
@@usernotfound_____yet Oh I though it meant the anime ._.
@@leviallday yeah the anime version is called miraculous PV
There are a lot more problems with unintentional racism in the show. Probably the biggest is the use of the Rising Sun flag in Ephemeral.
What are some other examples out of curiosity?
@@rinibunny4576 In some episodes, Rena Rouge and Pegasus had lighter skin as superheroes and this was blamed on animation errors.
Aeon from the New York special is an android created by a white person, takes the form of a black girl and is programmed to help people.
Fei from the Shanghai special originally had golden hair when she was Ladydragon but it was changed to red due to accusations of whitewashing.
And then there's Qilin, an episode focused on rasicm that ended with the racist getting off scott-free while the victim's daughter paid the fine using the victim's money.
The Ephemeral case is the one that got me to turn against Thomas Astruc because of how he just kept blocking Korean fans AND what happened with Hope Morphin.
And the episode were Sabine was akumatized felt so racist too
There was a comic...someone said that the design choices in the comic was okay...
@@blueotter5954 The comic where Marinette was naked in front of a group of black man...
I saw someone say 'he named Marinettes father after himself, but he also based her mother on his ex Chinese girlfriend who was also named Sabine, he created her family to represent his dream life with his ex girlfriend and a child he doesn't have and gets upset when people imply she's anything other than perfect, it's so creepy and also brings up the idea that he didn't even make Marinette wasian for the sake of diversity or anything, but because she's supposed to be his ex's daughter.'
He said this on twitter and literally said "yes, at the time my girlfriend was a french/Chinese woman named Sabine, so it is as if Marinette is our virtual child." (direct quote)
What's worse is that he has his own wife and daughter apparently. Thomas Astruc is a weird creep.
Pues que te esperas de alguien que ve el acoso, como algo normal
27:28 I think I searched this up online before, “Thomas astruc ex girlfriend Sabine”, that post from the tumblr of immaturityofthomasastruc had the screenshots to prove it. Can’t link it here because UA-cam would delete this comment for “spamming” even though I was link sharing not advertising. Everyone commenting there is rightfully unnerved and even disgusted that someone working in an animation industry would behave like this, still thinking about an ex despite being already married.
@@demi4ngelojalá la verdadera Sabine (ex real de tomas astruc) no se de cuenta de eso, ¿Cómo reaccionaria a esto?
@@luisangelvillasanchez5708any sane person would be disturbed as hell about this if the fictional character(s) based from them was released in the public but wasn’t given permission. Google does the auto translate here instead of having one of us copy pasting to translate sites.
@@demi4ngeldisculpa no se hablar ingles
As someone who is extremely traumatized mostly because of emotional neglect, hearing that Chloe isn't traumatized makes me so mad. She clearly seeks any form of attention from other people because she didn't get any from her mother. She clearly has some attachment issues too.
"Her mother couldn't abuse her because she left when Chloe was young". Her mother literally left her and that's not traumitizing? Sometimes it can be even more hard than your parent's death, because you know that your parent is alive, they just CHOSE not to love you and not to be there for you.
And what he's essentially saying is "Some people had it worse than you, so you have no right to do bad stuff and you don't deserve forgiveness if your trauma messed you up. Your bad behavior is your own choice and your fault". Which is an awful message.
Of course there are some people who don't want to change. Chloe had a bad childhood, she's messed up, people give her many chances and she doesn't want to change. Ok, that's a valid message, "don't cling to abusive people". But saying that she WASN'T traumitized? Oh god.
Why'd you have to compare a parent loss to abadonment?
I loss my father when i was 7 years old, my brother was 17 years old and to this day he carry on a lot of self hatred and guilty, something that he will never resolve it because my father HIS DEAD.
He will never talk to him again and express his feelings.
both traumas(abandonment and parent loss) can lead to major issues equally.
@@davidhetherman8127 I don’t know how to help you.
@@xariaxx2112That's why they said sometimes. I also winced at the comparison bc that's a touchy statement, but I understood what they were trying to say
@@davidhetherman8127become a politician, be very homophobic, pass some anti gay laws, and meanwhile go to gay o*gies (definitely didn't happen before)
I've been through the same things, it's stressful for a while but not traumatizing
Honestly, there’s something so funny to just watch this middle aged man answer questions about his show with the facts he forgets immediately after hitting send, but the way he treats genuine fans for just BEING CURIOUS ABOUT HIS SHOW is upsetting.
There's also a controversy involving the Ephemeral episode among the Korean community. The episode features a brief reference to Japan's "Rising Sun" flag/symbol. The symbol is considered offensive for Koreans and Korea's history with Japan during WWII. What made this incident more baffling is that the show was co-produced in Korea! And somehow the symbol being there was never pointed out before the final production.
While the rest of the Miraculous Ladybug showrunners apologized to the fans for their mistakes, Thomas Astruc, of course, blocked people on Twitter for bringing it up and played victim. It's funny how Thomas made a couple of episodes that address anti-Asian racism with Marinette's mom and uncle, but then he refuses to address an episode or acknowledge a mistake that features a controversial/racist symbol for Koreans....😐
Among those people he block was his close friend
The Rising Sun flag has been used for over 400 years. You don't get to erase a big part of Japanese culture, no matter how offended you are. I'm sure a lot of people hate the British Empire too, does that mean we should censor the Union Jack in every fucking tv show and movie ever?! Of course not. You can hate the flag all you want, but calling for censorship is 100% wrong.
He also blocked a close friend without thinking twice
Ugh... Japan And Korea Should be Friends Move on Already 😒
Still I agree The shkw Is Shit :)
Astruc's just mad that some of the fanfiction writers do actually have more writing talent than his own team -
Chloe’s trauma doesn’t excuse the way she behaves (for instance someone who lived the same life could’ve turn differently) but it explains it. You can say that someone "bad" won’t change when the person is an adult and had plenty of time to understand how actions affect others etc but she’s 14 ! You can’t expect a child to to be aware of all of this. Of course she’s going to grow up be more mature and work on her issues (she’s never going to be perfect, maybe she won’t become a very good person but she’s at least going to change like everybody)
Exactly. Like- come on Thomas the girl is barely into her teen years. Does he have any idea how much people mature during then? I was really immature when I was 14, but here I am 3 years later, where I’ve learned a lot about things and how to be mature about more sensitive topics and other people’s feelings. I’m still not perfect, but that’s the point of growing up. You live. And you learn.
I also find it annoying how he pins all the blame on Chloe for being irredeemable... when Audrey exists. You know, the fully grown woman who still bosses people around like a spoilt brat and treats everyone around her, including her daughter and husband, like complete trash that she can throw away at her leisure.
And what about her dad? Audrey left when Chlo was a kid, so her dad was the one who mainly raised her. And guess what? He ENABLES her. He throws money at her all the time, and does nothing when she copies her mother’s abhorrent behaviour. So we’re looking an abusive narcissist, and a spineless enabler. Is it any wonder Chloe turned out to be a spoiled brat?
And even then, SHE CAN STILL CHANGE. She isn’t even out of her teens yet. She needs time and support to mellow out a bit and hopefully realise that the way she’s behaving isn’t acceptable. She’s still a kid. Thomas needs to understand that. It doesn’t justify Chloe’s behaviour, as you’ve said, but good god Astruc give the girl a chance to grow up.
It bothers me how Zoe debuted and then 2 episodes later, she becomes a hero. Like she just became a miraculous holder within just 2 episode since debut. I wish the writers could’ve built her character more rather than just “Zoe came to Paris to live with her family and then she became a superhero.”
He can't because he's a lazy writer, Zoe's character is empty and is unable to take chloe's place she is just "nice" that's a boring and Interesting character just a Mary Sue who came out of nowhere got everything and everybody already loves her...in 2 episodes. If it's not Laziness I don't know what it is.
I know right! It's fine her character was introduced, but I would've liked for us to see why Zoe deserves to be a holder besides her being "nice". It was so forced.
I thought Chloe would grow to be a better person, and eventually earn LB's trust and return to her role of the bee holder miraculous.
It was actually one episode, which is worse. Sole Crusher and Queen Banana are back-to-back episodes
@Otdreamer193 I so hated the end of Axel and that-girl-Sora-loves-forgot-her-name-that-boring-she-is. Axel was a DAMN FIRE ITSELF. He was gorgeous and wonderful in his fury and pain. Then he got a keyblade which supposed to make him stronger… do you remember him beating up a crowd of shadows even if it costed him his life? And he’s now a totally pushover alongside with that princess-who-always-need-to-be-rescued. I thought she would at last become useful. Nah, no. She’s still nothing but a problem you shall fix.
Lol. I'm pretty sure that zoe was most likely adopted or whatever. No offense her mother didn't abuse her. Like WTF?
If they were really gonna replace Chloe, they should've made Zoe have a lying/identity issue like Lila, but on a smaller scale with her actively trying to fix it. It would have made her more interesting cuz that's kinda how they introduced her, then they washed away ANY interesting aspect she could've had and made her Mary Sue
Zoé is totally useless. It's just a Mary sue who got everything on a golden plate in only 2 episodes but she's pretty empty and she sucks. Being a nice person doesn't mean you're interesting or a good character and unfortunately it's her one and only character trait.
Personally I think it would've been better if mari started using the bee miraculous instead of creating a new character with a rushed character arc
I saw a comment that said Thomas’s hatred for Chloe is like he based her off a girl from his high school who either bullied him or wasn’t interested in him which wouldn’t be surprising because the hatred he seems to have for her specifically goes well past what a normal creator would have unless she is based on a real person
@@Pinkcrocs239 Can you please explain the term 'Mary Sue'? I'm just a British Idiot who never learnt what the term meant-
@@i_am_only_an_insane_person Mary Sue is kinda when a character is unbalenced and doesn't have to work for anything (Google it if you want a good explanation tho)
The show is a guilty pleasure. It came out when I was around 14 and I wanted to be like Marinette. She was was cute, clumsy, and everyone loved her and she was an adored superhero who had a cute boy head over heels for her. I wanted that. As an adult. Marionette’s behavior is the worst for a child to idolize and I probably wasn’t the only kid that wanted be like her. The message that you can stalk someone and they’d still like you is dangerous. Also the writing is just a hot mess in dangerous. It’s a good show to put on when you’re working and you need something to put on in the background
Yeah, stalking is not good! Being obsessed with another person period is not healthy. You can really like someone, you can CERTAINLY respect them deeply, but you cannot be obsessive. You cannot feel entitled to someone else.
It's... The show really waters down the severity. The protagonist has a real problem and she needs help with emotional regulation. Looking back I'm baffled the writers didn't see it that way.
Wtich is bad if you think it's good put in the background
11:04 fun fact, Thomas also apparently blocked Molly Ostertag, the wife of She-Ra’s creator for no apparent reason
It's not with no reason. It's probably jealousy
@@ines1084 true, but I think it’s funny he blocked the creator’s WIFE and not the creator (I mean he might’ve idk he probably did)
I think it was because he got into a huge shitstorm with She-Ra's fanbase at some point.. if i remember correctly it was because of the whole Ladybug and Chat Noir not being equals argument.
I mean he blocked his own close friend what do you expect.
111 likes
Thomas really out here saying he’s got the most creative powers 💀 bro tf are you supposed to do with the power of gift giving. Like make them useful 7:37
I mean there are a couple of cool powers, but to say that they're all *original concepts* is kind of ridiculous
Not to mention the rooster power is so broken that it makes no sense why they didn't use that from the beginning
@@MrMoustache144 Yeah, it's so OP that it's ridiculous, utterly ridiculous
Bro acts like only super strength and flight was the only power until Miraculous 💀
@@AmandaTodhunterOfficial agreed
Gravity falls is like the best show ever. The fact that they took so many risks on the plot and it still turned out so good
Amphibia and the Owl House, too especially. Then again, the creators of both shows worked on Gravity falls, too.
@@victoriaescobedo5458 exactly
Avatar the last air bender is the best :)
@@victoriaescobedo5458 Oh my watching TOH after only watching MLB for months was a great breath of fresh air. Things were finally making sense!
@@princezuko7789 ah then I have to watch
Tomas is the Yandere Dev of the animation world.
What about John k?
@@GabrielaOrtiz-yj3si who?
@@GabrielaOrtiz-yj3si ok sorry. Thhhhhhhomas with a heavy lithp.
UTTP
I started watching Miraculous when Season 1 was still being released and I relate to hating and loving it since the beginning. It's an unique experience.
@Hope for Aisha We’re on the same boat
@Hope for Aisha same here 💀
Same here, been watching for that long as well, and yeah it can be dificult at times to like the series or Marinette as a character
@Hope for Aisha you can watch videos like: „why marinette isn’t a good character“ there are plenty of them.
I’ve been watching miraculous since I was a child, I think since season 2 was released because it was a tv show so yeah. When season 4 released, I got more interested.
The part with Chloe always gets me. I went through a lot of trauma as a child, and people often disregarded this saying "you had your parents, siblings and friends, you can't have trauma if they were there"
Yeah no fuck you, you don't understand how trauma works at all. Trauma isn't a thing that happens, but how we react to it. Even though Chloe had her father and her buttler, even a friend in Adrien, she still felt awful about her mom leaving and couldn't cope with this. Stating she couldn't feel bad because there was people to support her doesn't make sense, when people with trauma often don't realize for a long time where their troubles, fears and anxiety come from, and usually fear that their emotions will be tossed aside since they "don't have a reason for it"
This is what made me resent Thomas. Before this, I could've forgiven most of what he said if he properly apologized and seemed like he would change. But being so awful when it comes to a sensitive topic is absolutely not okay and in my opinion fully unforgivable.
I totally agree with you, and I'm sorry about the trauma you had went through as well. I understand that you feel very strongly about how Thomas dealt with the Chloe thing, heck so do I! I had so much hope for Chloe, it seemed as if she was going to get a redemption arc then BOOM no. It makes no sense to me that he dealt with her this way especially if this is a kids show with supposedly "valuable lessons"
Making Chloe out to be somebody "who will never change" and brushing her off as if she's just a "rich blond with daddy's money" is honestly repulsive and has also made me resent thomas.
I'm going to be bold and say that it feels that to Thomas, unless you're something like a war veteran or a sexual assault survivor, it's not "real" trauma.
@@kou7191 I'm 100% certain that Thomas has never experienced trauma and doesn't know what it is.
@@spiritlxss Doesn't help that, narratively speaking, the argument of Chloe 'choosing' to not be redeemed COULD have worked too: growing resentment and a feeling of betrayal from Ladybug/Adrien, the few people she actually opened up to, thinking that it's pointless to become good if everyone still always expects the worst of you - might as well be as bad a villain as people say, right? ... but nope, instead they just dump her character arc entirely, pretend season 2 didn't happen, and turned her into a parody version of her season 1 self while her sister that literally didn't exist until season 4 became the new bee miraculous holder. It all felt so.... contrived, to put it nicely.
@@kou7191 This is such a strong point, you're absolutely right. Even if Chloe choosing to not be redeemed could have worked if they didn't dump her character entirely, just like you had said.
What makes me resent him the most is how they completely neglected her character and wrote her like her season 1 self, AKA: the "mean character for no reason and no backstory behind her feelings" You can just notice the differences in her character between the seasons and then suddenly just going back to square one.
I don't know if you are familiar with High school musical, (if not completely disregard this point!)
but I can contrast Chloe and Sharpay Evans. (a well written character compared to chloe) Chloe and Sharpay are both stereotypical blond and rich 'mean' girls. The contrast is that Sharpay actually has a redemption arc in her own movie. Though, without her redemption arc she is a well written villain who is actually valuable to the story. Sharpay was never really a neglected character at all.
The fact that Marionette still can’t confess her love to Adrian after 4 seasons is tiring and even a little annoying. I rather see Adrian hook up with Nino at this point. Also these characters don’t suffer any trauma after being akumatized which is pretty unrealistic. Two even published a comic book about their akumatized selfs and how they turn good. Wtf?
they have numerous times.. but adrien is too stupid and when they DO actually get together, every time they do, hawkmoth wins...
What was the comic called?
Mari kinda have trauma beacuse of Blank.But you're right the akumatized people should have trauma and PTSD but they don't. Hawkmoth isn’t scary at all.He should be intimidating but he isn’t.
wait 2? i thought there was only 1. i havent seen the latest season so maybe it was in that season
Mari should have stuck to Luka, at least she didn't stalk him. The will they won't they with Adrian and Mari is frustrating:/
Thomas: "She wasn't given a redemption arc. You convinced yourself it was".
You know, it sounds like: "Gaslighting doesn’t exist. You made it up 'cause you're fucking crazy".
I hate how the creators of the show just casually put a BUNCH characters into depression in season 4 and only said Marinette was going through “struggles” and Thomas said that Chloe was fine because she’s rich. I’m sorry what- 👁👄👁
200th like
I never realized that having money staves off depression. I assumed mental health issues could afflict anyone.
@@CelticVictory me neither- they refuse to change how Chloe acts and behaves. They are still writing her with some emotion but now it’s blurred. The character i once knew 2 years ago doesn’t really exist anymore.
He really is insensitive towards people who have experienced one of or both of their parents leaving them at a young age.
Seems like someones gotta learn from Dana Terrace then.
When asked about if he would ever put a hijabi character in the show, Tom said it would be 'too political'. Nice to know that hijabis like me aren't really people, we're just walking political entities that aren't appropriate for kids shows. Save the children from our scary headscarves!
Dude chill,I am a Muslim myself,it's better to not bring Religion into the show
Aren't religions and politics supposed to be separate? How's a religious head covering considered political?
I literally saw that on twitter and the hijabi girl who brought that subject to the table kept coming back with great reasons to put hijabi characters (be it simple background characters) he's totally willing to make a Christmas episode but a headscarf is too cultural 🤡
@@genericname2747 they're supposed to be, but some nations love making things that aren't political, political. Black people are political, trans people are political, disabled/neurodivergent people are political, and ANYONE THAT ISN'T WHAT THEY ARE (i.e. Christian or atheist) is political.
But in reality? They're just people. Different people that are still human.
@@Vesperad0 You right. We need to stop making existing political.
Can we talk about how frickin dedicated and talented the miraculous fandom is for a sec?? Here we have a show with a plot holes so big that it could rival the grand canyon, inconsistent with it's story and badly written characters aswell a very controversial (and racist) creator who likes to stir up drama with 14yo on twitter
And yet the fandom is still dedicated to this show for 6 years and somehow still kept this dumpster fire of a show still relevant by writing fanfic's, making beautiful animatics, amazing comic's & comic dubs, hell even gacha live mini movies, without being acknowledge or even respected by the creator at all
And the fact that the fan stuff has a lot more depth, carachter development and consistent lore the show has setup in 6 YEARS
Astruc should really keep in mind that without the fandom this show wouldn't even be relevant anymore and he wouldn't even be as famous as he is now
Because fans are very passionate about what they like, plus it puts their own writing and artistic skills to the test.
I'm an artist, and I'm still practicing on how to be a good writer by making my own fanfics (Ben 10 Alien Force being the main atm), but I draw how I think it could have gone, like how I'm Steven Universe, the diamonds are the bad guys, Pink Diamond and Rose Quartz are their own separate characters, male gems exist too, and the gems are not made of light etc or how I think in Star vs the forces of evil, Marco would be the final villain, with everything at stake on Mewni, him claiming the wand and Monster Arm returning.
I think it’s because of how much potential mlb had
I think the lore is really well thought and good, just handled really badly..
@@zeldaprincessgirl100 I think it's just sad the astruc doesn't even acknowledge this fact at all, the artist's and writer's in the fandom are very talented people yet we see not even a pinch of respect from astruc himself, instead he just send hate comment to people who DARES critic his masterpiece and absolute perfection of a show instead of trying to fix noticable mistakes in it
If even gacha kids can make a good and cohesive story line then an adult man who has been "fixing" this show for more then 6 years.
you know you did something very wrong
Honestly this is so true.
@@zeldaprincessgirl100 can I read your fanfictions? 😂
Chloe had potential and then it's like none of her character development ever happened bruh.
They destroyed her character development
@@e.h6522 Thomas was pissing in the well as he knew he was being replaced as the key person on the show.
Just like Rian Johnson destroyed sequel Potential for Star Wars Episode Nine, Thomas Made Chloe loose everything she had that was important to her to her sister into a crazy dictator & threw her off the show, and then murdered both of Adrien's Parents then mike dropped and left.
Season 6 has such a big mess to clean up and The Paris Special may just muddle the issue.
The problem with Zoe:
She's a "nice person", but a bad Character.
The reason we don't like her is because she had no build up, she has no goals, and serves no Narrative purpose.
The only reason she exists is because Astruc is a lazy writer with terrible execution who hates a fictional child. Zoey gets everything in the two episodes she is introduced. And to hammer it in they regress Chloe to a ridiculous degree where she does things she would never have done or said before hand, mainly to her best friends.
Every Character in those 2 episodes acts so lifeless. Notice how desperate they are to hype up Zoe instead of gradually integrating her into the story. Notice how the story bends to her will and all her "problems" are immediately solved. Zoe is a worse Mary Sue than Marinette. The only difference between them is that Zoe isn't a disturbing Stalker.
Chloe and Marinette were two sides of the same coin. Their lives are flipped versions of each other but they're both good kids deep down. What holds Chloe back is trauma and status. What holds Marinette back is the fear of failure. They both just need someone to encourage the best parts of them.
Marinette has Tikki and Cat Noir.
Chloe had Ladybug and eventually an observant Adrien.
Now, her CHILDHOOD FRIEND leaves because of a Movie, out of all the things she's done, it was a MOVIE. That's so out of Character for Adrien. Plagg complimenting an absolute stranger is so out of character as well.
Zoe exists because we need another bee
she is mary sue just like creepynette they both has no personality they are just "uwu im innocent nice girl pls love me"
I mean if someone's got to be Chloé's replacement they'd better be as good- I mean, better than her and the buildup she got.
Zoe doesn't provide any new visual characteristics either, like her clothes are just marinettes outfit put through a rebrand press. Her transformation animation sticks out like a sore thumb, its weirdly bouncy and feels overcompensated for lack of actual character traits to work off of
@Marinette
Then why can't he put in the effort to write balanced, developing Characters? Why does he bash other people's opinions and block people who politely disagree or correct him? Why does he not try?
My biggest beef with Thomas is his profile pic , it’s so annoyingly fake / narcissistic.
Also biggest beef with the show is how the episodes come out out of order
Oh, the episodes are actually released out of order?! I thought my tv/ netflix was being weird. Good to know someone else is experiencing this too. I'd always look up what the order is supposed to be before binging a season. 😑🙃
when that party guy episode came out before pegasus even existed ☠️
It looks gay
I was really upset that Thomas threw out a Chloe redemption arc, especially at the Battle of Miraculous episode.
In the same season they showed Chloe being able to resist akumitization, which we'd never seen before. But they threw it all away because "Chloe bad"
It's not even that he undo Chloe's redemption arc, it's *how* he did it. Even if Chloe's arc wouldn't have a "happy ending" and she'd chose to not change, he never bothered to give her even that and just....discarded it altogether as if it never happened, then replace her with her perfect sister that came out of literal nowhere. It borders on satire with how absurd that shift was.
@@kou7191 Um, she's from New York, so not out of nowhere /lh
@@alyssamay9237 ur not being fr right
Yaaa and I'm definitely on chloes side on the failed redemption like you stop letting her use her own miraculous and treat her horribly not even letting her help with her own parents, and she's still loyal to you and then she breaks 1 time (which ladybugs friends pretty much do on a daily basis) so you fully take it away... while she also caused all the other identitys to be revealed but does that matter? No. Cause they're ladybugs friends... then her sister comes along and pretty much replaces her stealing her redemption... yaaaay...
i love how thomas said something like "The worst cant be redeemed" while in the finale, hawk moth gets redeemed. DESPITE MENTALLY ABUSING HIS CHILD AND 2 OTHERS, KILLED PEOPLE MULTIPLE TIMES, LITERALLY WILLINGLY AKUMATIZED HIS SON MULTIPLE TIMES AND GIVING PEOPLE ANXIETY BY MAKING THEM THINK THEY HARMED OTHERS, ABUSED 2 IMMORTAL BEINGS AND TORTURED HIS SON IN THE FINALE.
the torture part might be a bit exaggarated but if that isnt torture, what is?
Instead of redeeming Chloe again no we got to redeem the guy who basically ruined half of one half of the people life
And I'll Zoe is a Mary Sue
The fact that they made chat nior act dumber just so ladybug can look smart just makes her even more of a Mary sue
I thought it was fine for cat noir to be more of a comic relief, or "dumber." Seeing as how I think all types of characters have a spot in stories. But... I noticed that his happiness was being sacrificed and that made me sad... Also, now that I'm hearing he was made dumber to make Ladybug look smarter? Why sacrifice a main character like that? It's... Just upsetting.
The worst part is they may be doing it unintentionally, without a plan to rebuild him.
@@jewels3400I thought that Cat Noir's personality was like Adrien's vent, his escape from strict parent, busy schedule and "proper behaviour" due his family that choked his real personality. This is ability to secretly sneak from his not very happy life in disguise and be little goofy during his missions with another masked hero. He is only 15.
Srry for grammar
@@КактусиноГенриэтто Well thats a much better reason then Tom could give
Adrien: extremely gifted kid, physically very built with training and very intelligent
Chat noir: literally a bumbling idiot, almost never has good ideas, there are multiple episodes in season 1-2 where Adrien is incapacitated/knocked by villians who should not be stronger than him (antibug, vanisher) and Marinette does the ENTIRE THING ALONE
@@jewels3400 Ron and Hermione all over again
Man, the Chloe thing still gets me on my nerves on a personal level because Chloe reminds me of my little sister so much. Him saying a person like that is unredeemable really makes my blood boil. Children are definitely not the ones to blame when they develop toxic behaviors as a consequence of bad parenting. I can't believe he really made the show to be like "oh poor zoey, she's losing herself in the need of the approval of her mother" but then he doesn't apply the same logic with Chloe for some reason?? Anyways, if he really wanted to make the point that "some people are just bad and don't want to change", dude Lila is right there!! Why drag Chloe into it as well?
Same, im still not over the chloe thing, because it reminds me of myself in the past, i was exactly like chloe, spoiled brat, and a rude person because thats what my surroundings thought me, the attitude of my parents was that, but i still changed. So why cant chloe?
@@justchlxe fr he just bullshitting us with incorrect psychological takes
@@roseberryy_ Or just, he don't want it. It’s not because you like a character and you have to impose your ideas. You know that he is no longer alone in writing Miraculous and that the script was written over several years. Thomas himself confessed in a press conference to dislike the redactions of the bad guys (that’s why he doesn’t want to turn Chloe into a nice character). Especially since the scenario has repeatedly shown her destructive behavior: she accuses Marinette of stealing and wants to put her in jail (although stalking someone is also a big problem), she called the firefighters in order to punish everyone (in France calling for nothing help a serious offence of 1 year imprisonment), she repeatedly harassed Marinette and her best friend (push, hit and humiliate her). She uses her father’s cheating and influence to close establishments etc. You are sure to want a reduction. The character may be very bad and I think it is the best for this character.
In France, we let authors write their scripts WITHOUT PEOPLE COMING TO MODIFY them. It’s the freedom to write what we want. We don’t let fans decide what to write in it. Especially since the Miraculous team signed a contract to write a series for children from A to Z in a children’s TV channel (Guily and France 4 are the channels that finance the series and they are channels for children from 7 to 10 years olds). And they didn’t plan on making him more mature. Because if it makes it more mature then that means Miraculous will have to be in another channel and lose their funding. The producers of Wakfu (a very popular series in France) have decided to make the series more mature and today we do not know if we will have a season 4 and a final.
So pity stopped harassing him about things he doesn’t control or his choice of scenario.
@@housnatzoubert2444 Look, the thing is, if he just wants Chloe to stay a villain he can just say so and I would respect it. What I'm complaining about is him making excuses for himself saying it's because "a person like that cannot change". That's just not true Idc. And showing how Chloe is deeply hurt and has self-steem issues to then make her a villain is a terrible message to send to kids. "Oh a person like that doesn't need help at all, she's just bad don't worry about her :D".
@@housnatzoubert2444 God, learn basic grammar.
Tbh Thomas doesn’t have a filter, and just a bad mannered person in general. If he wants out community to treat him with respect he should treat us with respect. Also I am a firm Chloe redemption arc fan, and I think she deserves better. Thank you for bringing some of these topics to attention. personally I knew that some of the creators don’t consider their behavior. The fans should know who they are supporting. Again thank you for enlightening us.
The fact that he will just block fans for the randomest things they said, it's pretty childish
@@T_E_G ikr people ask valid questions or make small theories he just blocks them
Pretty childish.
@@T_E_G its also unprofessional i feel as if he's like butch hartman but far worse.
I heard that he’s getting replaced with Lauren Faust
Is it true?? Hopefully it is..
@@Nintendofan781 atleast FoP and Danny phantom are more entertaining than stupid bug.
A wasted opportunity to make Chloe;
1) have an interesting redemption arc
2) trying to prove her self-worth by being Queen Bee
3) Helping out Ladybug and Chat Noir and/or becoming as sort of ‚rival‘ towards them
4) Trying to make herself a better person than her parents
5) Learning to do better and accept that she was awful back then
Etc etc
But of course not, Astruc is a 48-year old manchild who just can’t forgive his school bully from +30 - 40 years ago and needs a character to enact his ‚revenge‘ in a petty way
I mean, of course, there are some stuffs that need to be forgotten, but forgetting about our past trauma is not that easy...Trust me...But don't worry i am not protecting that guy. Even i, as a person who got bullied, i will never makes antagonist more stupid since everyone can change. And btw, even if he got trauma, it doesn't excuse the way he destroyed Chloe.. #justiceforchloe
@@autisticwoman665 thank you👏🏻👏🏻
@@Radio-97welcome ;)
Imagine being so narcisstic/egotistical that you put yourself in your own big animated tv show, and had the plot circle around you not getting enough appreciation for that show. That is just hilariously ridiculous
It’s Not Ridiculous It’s✨𝘌𝘮𝘣𝘢𝘳𝘳𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 ✨
Stan Lee would kill himself if he have watched that
@@elfran2002 deep, but true
Like I understand some self inserts. My humour is just self-insert, but like Kenny from South Park Or just incredibly in the background.
I DID LOVE THE POTENTIAL however there can be other things that can be played out, but it is thomas astruc so i am not surprised lol
On the bright side, i think Animaestro both has a very clever name, and a very nice design, not as good as Malediktator though
10:25
Thomas: Says it’s stupid for Hawkmoth to take the Miraculous
Also Thomas: Makes season 4 finale centred around that same idea
I think he stole that idea XDD
Season 5 guys.
ay lmao
Was following him when season 1 was first airing, and uhh he kinda had a habit of doing that. A fan would ask an honest question, or say 'wouldn't it be cool if...' and he'd berate them for it, and then later on that fan would turn out to have been right and he'd congratulate himself on 'throwing us off'. I think the idea was to keep it a surprise, but after a while it really, *really* started to look like he was just using these fans' ideas haha orz
Also it's just like kinda creepy that Marinette's dad is a self insert for Astruc, Sabine is a insert of an ex of his, and Marinette is like a fanchild between them.
I also feel like really bad for Hope Morphin, the person Marc is based on. They used to be friends, but after Hope simply brought up how he used the rising sun flag for Japan, talked very calmly when he responded, and they were completely blocked, no warning. Years of defending him and the show, being friends, all apparently gone from just pointing out him using a flag associated with awful atrocities in his show.
Fr that’s creepy I feel bad for his ex he’s a creep
Wow so he is a creep
I'm just waiting for the day the ex makes a better version of Miraculous to clap back.
Imagine saying a character isn't traumatized while her mother called her "Chlorine." The antiseptic people use in swimming pools...
Or that she wasn't abused when sshe was being neglected by her mother... Which is abuse.
I don't understand, is she really named chlorine ? Chloé is a pretty common french name.
@@shigekax No, he name is Chloé. But he mother calls her the wrong name as a sign that Chloé is neglected. That her mother doesn't even know her name, nor really cares enough.
Another frustrating fact I’ve noticed, Thomas Astruc steals his ideas from the fans. Chat Blanc? Literally a fan fic first.
Wait I remember something on it, I can’t find the story but I think there was some fanart or a comic I saw that was based off the story🤔
@hanna..1 I’ve been in the fandom since the beginning so I just remember it. I know that’s a great source lol
I--dude. And he's bashing them?? Wow...
Yep. I saw such when it was just 1-2 seasons aired. I think the same goes for Truth and/or Wishmaker. One of the smaller ideas I remember was there was a joke Chat had figurines of himself and Ladybug, awhile before that was added to the show
You are pretty "new" to the fanbase, yet managed to make a 30 minute long video; imagine if I told you that what you saw is ONLY the tip of a very deep iceberg that 98% of you have no idea about. Miraculous released in Korea first, so some of us have been following it for a long, long time now. The show got very popular very quickly and in a matter of DAYS, international interest grew at an insane rate. Questions about the show were abundant and people attempting to reach to the creator actually managed to do so. Thomas Astruc was fond of the attention he was receiving and soon enough it was known that he had a "hidden tumblr account" to interact with posts in the shadows and a snapchat account to interact personally with fans who had it; since fans of the show appeared to be much older than the original intended audience, there were instances where fans would flirt with him and send suggestive messages or photos (via snapchat) to get spoilers from the show. There's one extremely popular fan account on twitter who is perfectly aware of this happening because they were directly in contact with one of the girls who did this; this same fan account, therefore, learnt about important spoilers like Hawkmoth's identity by the time less than 8 episodes were out.
Winny, one of the storyboard artists, had openly drawn genderbent hentai versions of Chat Noir and he had them on full display on his twitter back when he had very few followers. People only found this very early on, so he managed to delete them. I am fairly certain that these images are still somewhere online, or on some tumblr archive since it did make the rounds when the fandom was in its early infancy.
The show got its very start here in korea, so its very first fanbase was strictly korean (though again, it rapidly gained following internationally), yet when some korean fans tried to bring up the issue that most asian characters were modelled quite distinctly, as well as being given pretty cliché stereotypical looks or behaviors, Thomas made fun of us and refused to listen to what originally started as just simple inquiries. He was quite nasty, dismissive and just plain rude, as you all know, but this was the very first time he showed such a side to himself, so it was quite shocking.
TL;DR: Everything about Thomas Astruc (and part of the miraculous team) has been sketchy from the start, but the sketchier and more problematic activities are buried so deep within the early-adopter fandom that most of you will never hear about it, seen as he continues to be rude and adding up to his pile.
thank you for telling us this! marinette being the stereotypical asian girl always bugged me the wrong way.
im shook !! I didn't know this
Jesus, sure makes sense why the show is still garbage even without Thomas
Jesus christ....
F
As a christian, the "Jesus miraculous holder" caught me off-guard. I had to replay to make sure I heard it right, it was kinda funny (because it was stupid) but it was so out of nowhere and if Thomas is a christian too (I'm not sure he is), he should know that it doesn't make sense
It's a blasphemy. Astruc is probably an atheist.
@@inakiaraquistain5731 you can be a “Christian” and sun blasphemy. No athiest would create a miraculous for Jesus
Who would use it? A Christian? Catholic? Etc
@@maggiethepearl7183 You have a fair point
Thomas isn’t a Christian.
21:41
The thing I want to say is that, Chloe’s mom left her, yet Chloe idealizes her and wants her mother to love her back. Also, children that has at least one parent/guardian figure leave their life may feel abandoned, this doesn’t help that Audrey had an affair with another man and gave birth to Zoe although still married to her husband. The abandonment of her mother and the absence of her father ( due to him being the mayor ) and having her BUTLER who isn’t her family raise her can be something of trauma, also Chloe should not be asking her mother “Why don’t you love me?” as a child would have to go through some sort of TRAUMA to have that mindset of a guardian figure.
Edit: Also, isn’t Chloe a 14 years old? That means her brain isn’t fully developed so her parents would be the people who are trusted to develop and mature the child.
She’s actually 15-16
@@RandomGirl785That doesn't make it better, buddy
Seeing it was a kids show I was always shocked Chloe never got redeemed despite the episodes showing visible character growth but apparently none of that mattered and just suddenly disappeared🧐
FR
Honestly, more and more fans crave the show to be from Adrien's POV. Like I don't care if Ladybug is the leader of the duo, but his storyline is far more interesting.
Also, isn't it sexist that the main character's (who is a girl) main goal and entire personality *surrounds* a boy?
Not sexist at wll
@@cajunking5987
Huh?
Actually Mary and Adrien both are the protagonist becs as I remember the show is called ladybug and *Cat Noir*
@@nicolas._.2294 yeah, but the show is very primarily in marinette's pov
@@dylansharp8471 it's not sexist to create a character with a love interest
I wonder if Thomas was actually involved in some of the episodes involving Chloe. Because if we’re NOT supposed to sympathize with her, and despise her instead, why give her a sympathetic background? Why call her a monster when it’s clearly shown that her personality is the result of her upbringing and has SHOWN moments of kindness and change? Giving her the bee miraculous of all things??? I seriously can’t wrap my mind behind his logic.
It was Sebastian not him
Nice pfp I recognize
0:24 « i do love it but i also hate it » most precise miraculous review ever
It's like the concepts are awesome in Miraculous the execution however leaves a lot to be desired.
Yeah, me here. 😂
@@MrMoustache144 LITERALLY THIS!
I think I like the concepts behind Miraculous ladybug rather than the show itself. It has all these interesting ideas, but just doesn't do them very well. The repetitive episodes get old, the pacing is rushed/awkward, and the character development is dismal. At this point, I'm actually more invested in Gabriel's story with Nadia than our main duo, which is kinda sad. Its so frustrating because they had the potential for greatness, but it just always seems to fall flat. Then Thomas barges in thinking this show is godly becaise of his expertise. And no, Thomas, its not.
In my personal opinion, the concept for the show is really good. The love square is *chefs kiss* because it can so easily portray character development; going from Adrien/Cat Noir liking Ladybug to Marinette because that’s who she really is and Marinette/Ladybug liking Cat Noir instead of Adrien because that’s who HE really is? That is extremely clear in portraying that these characters grew up and started liking the real person instead of the polished persona!
Bad thing the show refuses to let the characters grow and made Marinette into a stalker and Adrien into a really flat character (from what I remember) making it impossible to care. Like, if we got more focus on Adrien and him being maybe mischievous or SOMETHING whilst himself (not as Cat Noir), it’d be more fun to watch, or maybe seeing Marinette being a normal human for once instead of a lovesick stalker.
Listen, I know Marvel ain’t perfect when it comes to the stories they tell, but at least Stan didn’t make himself the entire focus of the plot when he decides to do a cameo for one of his movies *cough cough Tom*
Stan Lee had the best cameos
Fun Fact: Stan Lee’s parents are apparently Romanian! 🇷🇴
That’s because Stan Lee didn’t have the ego the size of Russia and didn’t go around insulting his fans for petty reasons. Plus the man just loved cameos, and liked making them in the movies no matter how small they may have been.
I wouldn't complain if he had ever been the center of attention
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios and the cameos on the shows are some of the best. My favorite is in one of the Avengers series (don't remember exactly the one), were Spider Man saved Stan Lee and he gabe him free hot dogs for his whole life. Just wholesome
This show is like a toxic relationship. You hate it yet you can never leave it 💔
Why can’t you leave it -
@@alien_bunns2628 UHH IDK
Naw bro I left this show for animes and better cartoons and my life has been so much better
I abandoned this dumb show before I even got way too deep into it. 😂😂
@@Jenny-h9b8l agreed, there’s so much more stuff better than miraculous ladybug
Another thing that kinda gets back to the Asian issue of people not fully understanding the difference between Chinese and Japanese is people overestimating the connection of Marinette and Kagami, such as them being secret siblings or Kagami helping Marinette connect with her roots. I just read those things and I'm like "Hey, I'm all for character growth and deeper connections, but you do understand that Asia is a continent, not a country, right?"
Yeah. I'm an Asian who grew up in Asia and that kind of mindset confused me at first. Here in Asia, I hear people from my country rant and trashtalk other Asians all the time. Really interesting how people think being from the same continent automatically means we feel connected and have an affinity with each other
Thomas Astruct is straight up despicable, hypocritical and so rude. He insults people for having their own opinion and then blocks people for disagreeing with him? I bet people who "hate" the show doesn't really hate it but hate's how the characters are written or just hate his attitude.
I love this show in spite of its flaws personally, but honestly it could be so much more
@@ElijahW2003Same.
"...Zags art director Nathanael Beonn is the best character designer I've ever seen" ah yes. Best character design. When your main heroes costume is just a plain red spotted body suit.
And flagrantly rips-off DC superheros
Don't forget the stereotypical hero mask which only covers the area around the eyes for some reason.
The costume designs for newer episodes like kuro Neko and penalteam could have been better in my opinion, as well as monarch 🤢cat walkers greasy green ponytail I just don't like it lol
@@mayahodri2002 I think the worst designs are hawkmoth with the stupid full head mask, og ladybug because its so plain, cat walker, caprikid because nathaniels red hair doesn't clash with the black and white, and pegasus because a plain brown suit with almost no details doesn't work
And the fact that he didn't even tried to do a different hairstyle for her superhero design.
I think Ladybug being akumatized would be a great episode for the show; I also want to assume that the writers are more creative in repeating the Chat Blanc plot.
If LB was akumatized and CN saves her, she would give them more character development and better relationship development, making them closer and CN would understand LB a little more.
Could’ve been an amazing Finale for Season 4 tbh. Ladybug getting akumatized after an entire season of stressing over her new role as Guardian and pushing Chat Noir away could’ve been amazing. It would’ve been much more thematically great than Ladybug messing up due to her obsession with Adrien ONCE AGAIN.
Ladybug could’ve given Shadowmoth the Yo-Yo while akumatized before Chat Noir manages to defeat her. Same effect, but no strings left hanging with Felix.
If your interested, There is a tumblr blog called The Immaturity Of Thomas Astruc that goes into deep dives about his behavior and how it's problematic.
There is a lot of content he's made related to Thomas Astruc and he also reviews each new episode with included screenshots of Twitter arguments related to the episode.
Send link please
They actually put the link to it in the description of the video, I think it was her main source.
@@notatallfunctional Oh wait really? Well I guess I didn't need to make this comment X D
Also Cyrus the great, I know he hates Creepynette but he said the fact of this Ladytrash show
@@Nanao_Ise7472 quoting Cyrus?
A person of culture, I see
You know, as a manga reader, and as someone who loves to listen to people talk about comics and someone loves to come up with their own ideas for super powers, the part where Thomas tells Mark Millar that _"In 3 seasons of Miraculous, we invented more unique super powers than the whole industry in 3 decades."_ makes me WAY more angry than I'd like to admit...
Just when I thought he can't be more delusional than he already is, he bested himself yet again
I remember watching a video about Miraculous that showed a scene where Ladybug had really weird eyes and thought "ah yes, Miraculous, now with Naruto's frog sage mode eyes" because the eyes looked kinda similar
When I was younger, the show still had one season, and I watched it with my mom because a classmate recommended it to me. We were basically just ragging on the show and laughing the whole time because of how absurd it was. At the end of the season, I remember my mom said the ending cliffhanger had some potential, but oh boy did our optimistic views on the show at the time age badly.
Remember when the fandom had very valid complaints on how Tom viewed Adrien vs Char Noir (which was super problematic, I might add) and then went on a "I'm going to screenshot these tweets, post them, slander the op and hope that my loyal followers doxx them"?
Yeah. A friend of mine was a victim of the situation. I got blocked by stating how childish it was for him to do that.
(Side note: in high school, I sent a letter to Tom stating how the show was amazing and brought a bunch of us from all over the world together. Fast forward a year later, I'm blocked. Fast forward again a few years after that and I get a picture of Marinette in the mail saying "stay miraculous". Thanks Tom.)
I guess the real miracles were the fans we blocked along the way
Who cares what y’all think is problematic
@@GlowBerryPumpkin XDd
As a writer myself, I would be THRILLED to have people asking questions about my work even if it was the same one and I had to explain again and again and again. I love people giving me theories and asking stuff about my work (I'm not a published writer, I'm talking about the people who've already read my drafts of a project I hope to publish in the future). Even if that feedback is negative, I love it all. I don't understand how someone couldn't love that.
As a writer too, I do sometimes recoil at negative feedback. I think most writers do, and it’s not easy to take, especially if the person said it meanly. But I still appreciate negative feedback, because I want to get better, and a lot of complaints I get are legitimate problems, even if it hurts in the moment. I think a lot of people can’t handle their brainchild being criticized because they take it as criticism of themselves. You have to learn to distance critique of your work from critique of you. If you can’t, you end up like these guys.
100th like
As a fanfic and aspiring comic author, I completely agree. In fact, as long as there's no disrespect, I *want* criticism. It's the only way to get better. I love it when people ask questions. And some of my favorite comments I've gotten were theories or comments about what happened.
Tbh, I'm so sad about the poor writing of this show because it has so much potential!
this
Same
honestly, i kinda forgot kinda everything that happened in Miraculous because everything after like season 2 confused me. the most significant thing i remember from a few years ago when i did watch it was the random ginger artist who had like 2 episodes with a large role and then disappeared in most of the others, 12 year old me really related to him. also i didn't like how the show kept romanticising Marinette's stalking and i died of secondhand embarrassment at most things she did so i just couldn't watch anymore
Ah don't worry. Alya turns to the cam and says "That's not good".
See, everything cleared up, stalking bad.
(that literally happened and Astruc used that to claim they portray the stalking as bad consistently...)
@@BluePhoenix_ "stalking is bad!! but let's still make the main protagonist, who's presented as a role model for children watching this show, a stalker! that won't be problematic at all!!!"
@@acelittlefire "Exactly,like writing down your crush routine and every move,breaking into your crush's house just to sniff their pillow and etc. It's completely normal!!!!! What?? The main character abuses her powers to stop any girl from "stealing" her crush?? Nah,that's normal too!!!!!!"
Honestly if Mari was a side character or if the story wasn't from Mari's pov,the whole fandom would hate her and would acknowledge that she is a creepy stalker.
@@whatamievensupposedtowrite yeah! also that awful wax museum scene in Puppeteer 2, oh my god that was creepy as hell
I watch around an average of 10 mins per episode cuz I have to keep pressing skip 5 seconds when it comes to marinette's irl life. It was a little funny at first but she's gotten away with it for way too long and doesn't take responsibility for her own actions that have gotten people akumatised before. They hinted at her getting better and then it got fucked over again. The way the show doesn't even air in a chronological shows how much of a mess the story is, and yet, it was such a good idea that i just can't stop watching. It's truly infuriating
Thomas: *thinks his show is best show*
Gravity falls, Amphibia and the Owl House: hold my storyline
Regular show, Adventure time, Flapjack & Over the garden wall: hey, look at this loser with his big mouth
AGREE!!!!! Gravity Falls, Amphibia, The Owl House is legendary, too bad it's going to end soon:((
rc9gn: bitch you stole most of my premise Thomas
I might get hate for this, but, I don't think The Owl House is that great like everyone else says it
The show had a great idea but a terrible execution
@@andre23595 I don’t know about that….tbh, I think it has pretty good writing. But maybe that’s just my personal opinion.
Can we emphasize how Chloe was literally ostracized in Penalteam? Everyone in the class gets a Miraculous, except for her. Putting aside the fact that Marinette hardly even knows half her class on a deeper emotional level and entrusted them with death-defying superpowers, singling out one kid isn't going to help them be happier. Does the writing team realize that Marinette is actively contributing to the toxic environment by treating Chloe like shit? The logic and justification for hating Chloe is so damn elementary, it really shows how mature Astruc is.
Lady bug could just give Chloe another miraculous, but she did not bc Astruc hates Chloe
@@ozvuchkibilla yeah why can't you just mix up everyone's miraculous? hawkmoth is not smart enough to pay attention to stuff like that.
@@Popgurliess magic won't let hawkmoth know, who is behind new hero's mask. If hawkmoth was smart enough to understand who's behind new mask, I think he could understand who ladybug is.
@@ozvuchkibilla and that's why lb and cn are kinda safe, because hawkmoth is such a dumbass.
@@ozvuchkibilla He kept track of half of all miraculous holders and STILL couldn't realize that every single one of them is directly related to Adrien either as a classmate or a close friend.
23:27-24:00 it literally aged like milk because he literally gave Gabriel a redemption arc (someone who did far more worse things than Chloe) and I AM SO MAD OF THE FINALE LIKE WHHHHHYYYY 😡😡😡😡😡
like why did he get to get what he wanted 😭
FR I hated it so much like u had this man do all of these terrible things and now he dies and gets seen as a hero?!?! And all Chloe does is cry in a corner??
I would be fucking proud if people wanted to share their fan theories or fan fiction of any story I wrote. It means they liked your work, inspired them and they might actually give you more ideas to work with. Hell, back when I used to write and friends made fanworks about my OC's I wouldn't stop praising their work. It is not cool to behave like that towards your own community that supports you.
I was actually a part of wn argument with him about something similar.
He *LOVES* fan work - provided you don't make one damn CENT off him.
He willfully misunderstands the 'fair use' terms and rights for artists - [essentially, as long as it's not taken directly from a screen grab of the original content, people ARE allowed to make and sell work of said material] then turned around and posted a gift of someone saying 'sure, janet'. (Which, IDKWTF is going through his mind).
He simultaneously claims that he owns very little in the actual show, yet turns around and claims that it's all him...
Or maybe your story is so bad they want to fix it
The funny thing is, he's actually stolen storylines off fics and used them in the show
@@ah3llfire #Felix
@@ah3llfire OH, F-
...which ones ;-;
Thomas's behavior is scary, to be honest.
He does sound like an abusive guy that didn't deserve the spotlight he got.
I truly hope people that work under him don't suffer like the fans of his show do.
I stopped watching Miraculous, the story got too confusing and also predictable at the same time.
and I'm sorry 5+ audiences my ass, this show is at least 10+ audiences.
And the show is only ALIEVE thanks to Brazil, yup, Miraculous is so popular around here that the channel that airs it here is now co-owner and co-producers of the show. (It's the GLOOB, that we see on the credits, and the show air first here).
Chloe was assassinated. Re-watch Miraculer, Queen Wasp, Zombizou, MALEDIKTATOR, Anti-bug, and even the terrible Miracle Queen Season Finale. She's genuine. She genuinely cares about what she did wrong even when Ladybug's not around, even when she thinks nobody else is paying attention to her.
Playing with Sabrina, smiling at her best friend when she's given genuine affection, asking her trash mom why she doesn't love her daughter, giving Ms. Bustier a birthday gift without anyone else knowing, desperately apologizing to her father for hurting him, and even asking for Hawkmoth to de-akumatize her parents before she joins the dark side.They never once had her give a malevolent smirk behind her actions.
Even when she throws a tantrum and Marinette takes the Bee off her, Chloe looks miserably over at Pollen.
Not the power in Ladybug's hand, but the new kwami companion/friend she's going to loose without it. She's an anti-hero and could have been the Sympathetic Villain since Hawkmoth is not sympathetic in the least. The man's full of shit.
Thomas is a dumbass
Share this with him, see what happens😑
Anyone telling him this will be blocked. 🙄🙄
@Marinette that is true....Chloe doesn't belong to fans with black and white view....those who think that people are born with bad traits.
According to researches, it was said that kids blame elders for their mistakes and knew them to be responsible for their actions but when kids do the same mistakes, they blame the environment. At first researchers thought that this was because that kids were selfish. But then they realized that kids are aware of the affect environment had on their actions but they aren't aware of what drove adults to make those mistakes.
As someone who studies psychology in school, I gotta say that this is a black and white view. Maybe try putting yourself in the shoes of people you judge....it'll be a good way of learning how to be more understanding.
I myself as as a teen, relate to Chloe a lot....even though I don't like the way she treats others, I understand where she's coming from.
@Marinette did you seriously not read the part where I said I don't like the way she treats people?🙄🙄
And not everyone reacts to problems in the same way.
And mind if I remind you that there was absolutely NO ONE to teach Chloe about morals? And secondly, not everyone reacts the same when facing trauma. 🙄🙄
Some people lash out....not because they're evil...but out of desperation.
I however tried to conceal myself but after a while I lashed out as well. Now out of fear of hurting people I close myself off from people. That's why I related to Chloe.
So please don't judge people before getting to know them 🙄🙄
@Marinette first of all, kids copy their parents
That's a scientific fact.
Secondly, we're talking about the creators who unknowingly offended a whole freaking nation and instead of promising to fix the problem they went on a blocking spree.
So who's more reliable here? Researchers and scientists who studied psychology and humans mind for years or someone who doesn't have the slightest bit of social skills?
@Marinette oh damn.
I forgot that more than half of the fandom are just kids who still don't know these stuff.
It's alright. I respect your opinion, dear.
But I'm sure once you grow older, you'll realize more.
When I was a kid, I was just like you....I was so judgmental and never looked at the other sides of the story.