The Hardest Questions for Atheists to Answer
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Are these the most difficult questions for atheists to answer? They might be, honestly.
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Atheists and Christian apologists alike get caught up in questions “atheists can’t answer.” Here I discuss questions I think are genuinely hard for atheists to answer, but maybe not for the reasons you think.
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00:00 Intro
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Have you ever thought about countering a religion question with another religion teaching?
"Would you submit to christian god?" Answered by "would you submit to buddha?" Etc.
Monotheism is the instigator of ignorance, oppression, and violence. Monotheism has been a "totalizing discourse", often co-opting all aspects of a social belief system, resulting in the exclusion of "others". Monotheism is less pluralistic , because monotheism stipulates that people pigeonhole their beliefs into one tenet. "Monotheism is irreconcilable with the existence in our nature of the instincts of benevolence" because it compels followers to devote themselves to a single Creator. The logic of monotheism yields little basis for tolerating other religions". Monotheism anesthetize the sense of wonder as if one were committed to a single line of thought by a cosmic legal contract".
Yes or No
Do you call yourself an atheist : Yes
Do you believe God exists : Yes
Do you worship God : No
Do you follow monotheism : No
Is christianity spiritual to you : Yes
Is spirituality the same a morality : Yes
Is God spiritual to you : No
Is God another name for elohim : Yes
Does elohim mean God : Yes
Is elohim a Extra Terrestrial : Yes
Has paul wallis uncoverd the mistranslation of hebrew words into greek and english : Yes
Can i watch paul wallis at the 5th kind on UA-cam : Yes
Does paul wallis have his own channel : Yes
Do most people define that word God incorrectly : Yes
Thank you, please visit the 5th kind and paul wallis channel and please do this so we can have a meaningfull and correct conversation about language, again thank you.
you can also find videos on this topic on my public playlist.
Hey Drew! Maybe you don’t see these reply threads but, I’m writing anyway in case. I’m really looking for any feedback from anyone though. I haven’t really focused on this topic much in my life until lately. One thing I’ve been thinking about lately is the difference between atheism and agnosticism. (I grew up a Christian and switched to atheism several years ago now). I could call myself an agnostic because if there were hypothetically some irrefutable evidence of a god, then sure, I’d have to believe it, but I think I classify myself as an atheist because of my belief about that hypothetical happening. An agnostic might be more open to that scenario happening; I believe I will not be presented with that evidence, ever. If it happened, sure, I’d believe, but since I believe that it won’t happen, that’s the difference for me. For a Christian, I’d imagine they think along the same lines. Sure, if they were hypothetically presented some irrefutable evidence that god doesn’t exist, then they’d believe it. But they believe that they won’t be presented with that evidence.
Does that make sense to anyone here? Is there any other differences that are more direct than “belief about a hypothetical’s ability to happen” that are in play here?
It's crazy that the average pet owner is kinder and more forgiving than God: and they didn't even vountarily create the flaws in their pets.
One definition of "love" that I especially like is: Wanting to give good even without reimbursement/acknowledgement.
Pet owners usually have this. (i.E. spending insane money on medication even when their pets life comes to an end)
It's often questionable if this is appicable to a god as it's described in old books..
I dont like piles of shit but as long as they aren't being intentionally placed ill let it slide. I imagine christians have a similar approach to atheists except they only let us slide because they have to and not because we are you know living breathing human beings just like they are.
@@CulprideAnd here I would have thought that pets were the pinnacle of reimbursement. Their ability to acknowledge and return affection is probably why pets are so loved.
@@jessephillips8319 Not necessarily. I've got pet reptiles and fish. The fish beg, but the reptiles would rather be left alone so long as their physical needs are met.
I wouldn't use this analogy, as owning breeds made by inhumane selection, like pugs chihuahuas french bulldogs, bald crooked-legged cats etc. perpetuates their breeding despite visible suffering being inflicted on those animals with the very fact of their existence.
My immediate thought is "Which God?"
Carl... he's the God of every time you catch a random show on TV, either on a rainy day when the WiFi is out, you're watching on the TV in a bar or on a flight, or at friend's house or something, it's always the same episode... no matter how many seasons the show ran. For instance, I've seen only one entire episode of The Big Bang Theory... and each time it is season one episode 3.
If you don't cover all the Hells, Pascals wager is useless; thus belief becomes a lottery for ego maniacs and their God of choice.
and my immediate followup would be, why does said God want/need worship?
And why does it need to be done by a much lesser being?
the one who will punish you for abanondeted him for the nothing this cult called atheism gives you.
Which god, and which denomination? Am I to submit to the misogynistic loving God, or the slave trader murderer God, or can I pick my "favorite"?
the obvious answer is "that's a loaded question and I'm not playing your game. Obviously if a god actually showed itself to me I would then be a theist. Whether I would also worship it is a different topic, for theist me, which I'm not"
Also, they sneakily present only two options. Either worship god or yourself. How about not worshipping anyone?
For me, the obvious and honest answer is "I don't know."
@@happytofu5"Everyone worships something." 🙄 No they don't.
@@happytofu5 As someone who hasn't grown up in any of these fundy circles, phrases like "worhipping yourself" or "making yourself God" or whatever sound like weird cult speak to me. Not gonna lie.
Arthur C. Clarke: 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.'
How would you know it's a god?
If it happened, I would wonder why God is so insecure and needs me to worship him. I would advise him to go to therapy and work through his abandonment issues. Hopefully, he would finally get to the point where he could love himself just for being himself and not need love and validation from everyone else.
😂
Brilliant.
Or god is an egotistical maniac who thinks he's better than everyone else and if someone doesn't love him, they're obviously worthless to him.
@@taoofjester4113 I love this answer. I mean I make food for my boyfriend and he doesn’t even worship me. If he did that I would find it very strange. I mean we are into some pretty kinky stuff but what the heck is this?
I mean, is there really anybody he could talk to about this tho you would need different therapist for all three of them since he’s three entities in one.
If god was real and he came down and proved his existence to me, I would believe he exists.
That doesn’t mean I would worship him, but I would believe he exists.
He is that big ball of burning fire in the sky.
@@RealPumpkinJay I don’t even know if I could get there. My Jesus would provide for people, not me I don’t see myself and feel guilty about not being able to provide for myself.
No I am driving Jesus to a camp where homeless people are gathered and demanding that he prevent their food supply from ever diminishing. I feel bad not because I don’t provide them with food, I can and have, I feel guilty about the fact I can’t provide infinite food. I want to but I can’t, if I could they would already have infinite food.
@@harveywabbit9541 Interesting thought, but I have no reason to believe it’s anything more than a completely natural phenomenon. The sun is a sphere of hot, churning plasma. It’s a yellow dwarf star at the centre of our solar system.
@@RealPumpkinJay
I am agnostic. I believe in the existence of a higher power. I feel that infinite point mass before the big bang is something we can't describe hence god
Which leads to existence later on.
It's interesting... space and technology (I study engineering)
So much uncertainty ig that's why it's comforting for people to know someone is taking care of them
I don't blame them
Only thing religious my family does is help the orphanage and old-age home near our house other than cultural festivals.
if God was real and he met me i would request him to just flood the world and start from scratch, and next time just make humans (without evolution) and keep an eye on them, and interfere (as a neutral force) in moments of conflict unlike how he did it this time
If the god of the Bible decided to prove himself without any doubt that he was real, and I could come up with no rational argument then I’ll believe he’s real. But now way in Hades am I gonna worship him
Because he uses the carrot and stick tactic (carrot = heaven, stick = hell)
The only thing YHWH's existence would push me toward is the legions of Hell, which have been trying to overthrow him since Lucie was cast out.
Kirsti answered absolutely unambiguously; she would not worship.
She would know (so no need for belief), and she would not worship.
I know that certain politicians exist, but I will not belive most of anything they say, and never ever worship any.
Exactly.
Bingo. Conflating belief with worship is classic theist dishonesty.
@@mjjoe76”Well, you believe in the Devil, right?” “Yes.” “So you worship the Devil?”
I used to be an "ATHEIST!!!" now I'm just an atheist😂 comes with confidence in your independent thinking. This channel helps alot
This is very cool. And something I still sometimes struggle to apply.
“There is no question that cannot be answered and there is no answer that cannot be questioned“ - Kick Buttowski
Wow, this is actually really cool
"uhm, actually..." math and all formal system have been proven that they are incomplete, meaning not every statement can be verified. Just think at the classic "this sentence is true". Check out Godel's Incompleteness theorems if you want.
@@richardandrespeguerosantan8761worms and maggots?
For the high crime of a minor typo, the court finds you shall be sentenced to edit on penalty of slightly bothering me (it's my fault, I'm a pedantic jac-, you get it, my bad 🙏)
@@giovannicorso7583 you completely misunderstood goedel's theorems, buddy. answering is not the same as proving something
It's so frustrating when theists ask questions like this because its supposed to be a gotcha moment where whatever you do is telling of some underlying problem in your rhetoric. People that ask these questions don't want to hear that its a nuanced answer, they dont want to hear the arguments, they just want to make atheists look unprincipled.
I have a bit of a rule I don’t worship and follow that which has committed genocides and claims to be love or just someone who commits genocides in general
Why worship or follow anything at all? (Serious question).
The Christian god is omniscient which means he chooses to kill over just fixing the problem instantly or making sure the problem never existed at all. Dude is not loving at all
I don’t I see no proof of anything resembling a god existing but if there was a god I’d worship it if it gave me the ability to fly
@@PAN-ickmode247 I get that!
@@PAN-ickmode247 Well, god created cannabis! 😉
I don't care if God exists, I won't worship him, I also don't worship myself (wtf?). I don't worship anything because that is just stupid.
True dat. The need to worship is a barbaric concept actually. If I create something, the last thing I want my creation to do would be worship me. Like, who would care?
You're correct; the idea of a god requiring worship is silly. Just look at what Trump expects from his cultists.
of course you will worship God, do not lie.
The only way i can make some sense of worship is, when it's beneficial for the worshipper not for the worshipped. Akin to rituals, routine, prayer, meditation or exercise. But all those actions become questionable if one performs them not for themselves but for someone (or something) demanding it.
*I ORDER YOU TO MEDITATE FOR ME, OR ELSE...*
@@D.MarcelloRadice Why should I worship him?
“The atheist seems to think that if God has morally sufficient reasons for permitting the evil….” let me stop you right there. The atheist doesn’t think God has reasons for anything, because the Atheist doesn’t believe that God exists. QED
WLC doesn't understand how atheists think and has made it clear that he's not interested in understanding either. Because he's convinced "Jesus loves Bill Craig" and that's all that matters to him.
Its so hard for christians to understand that others dont see the bible as anything but fiction. «The bible says» is like arguing what Odin says or even better what Gandalf says in LOTR. When I get quoted the bible I quote an other famous book of fiction😂
I quote from Dune in those cases.
@@almcdermid9669 - Which quote?
That was literally what kickstarted my deconstruction (not that there was a lot to deconstruct, having been a very casual European Catholic). The realization that if I believe God created Heaven and Earth in Seven Days, I might as well believe that Éru Ilúvatar and his Naiar sang the world into being. For both there are books that tell me that it happened, how am I supposed to know which book tells the true story? Oh, THE BOOK tells me it's telling me the true story? Right. But you don't believe a 'man' is actually a woman when she tells you she is? I smell a double standard...
@@rhokesh4391 Exacly, and by studying religious and mythical belives before the bible, you find the same stories but slightly different. Because the stories are the same, they are passed on from generation to the next. The details differ, but you can find Gods being born by virgins and resurrected many places. We humans love stories and we build upon what we have heard before. I find them all to by mythical and fiction. The bible is no different
@@almcdermid9669 Nice. Dune being heavely inspired by Islam and Jihad.
This is actually fairly easy for me to answer. If I were able to directly meet and interact with God, in pretty much the same way that I’m able to meet and interact with any other person in my life, and if God were as truly amazing and loving and wonderful as Christians claim that he is, then I’m sure I’d feel instantly and naturally drawn to him, and I’d feel naturally compelled to continue a relationship with him. I find that I tend to be drawn to caring, nurturing, loving people. But I can’t even get there, if I can’t even verify that God exists in the first place. The first step in any healthy relationship is meeting each other, and sharing two-way interactions & experiences together. This is actually a very, very simple concept to understand.
So, why am I able to meet and interact with Christian apologists & proselytizers, and not with the all powerful, all knowing, all loving God who supposedly _wants_ to have a loving, personal relationship with me?
The first question is interesting. It’s no because people are starving. Jesus if you want my worship end hunger. Do it now, I would but I can’t you can so do it.
"If Odin the All-Father appeared before you to prove he exists, would you worship him?"
That's really the way to answer this, because after the inevitable "no, of course not!" you can then ask "OK, but would you at least _believe_ he's exists?" and continue the conversation from there.
As an irreligious, agnostic theist, I find this absolutely brilliant.
I've used this argument before, and every time they get insulted. Like, they're genuinely affronted by the reminder that there are other religions.
That's just it. He didn't want to be worshipped. He wanted you to be awesome and willing to fight and die for what you think is right for yourself and your family. Oðinn admirers don't worship him. They seek to emulate his courage, cleverness, strength of character, and wisdom.
Wanting, let alone demanding to be worshipped, is a clear indicator of weakness in character.
Acceptance (evidence-based belief) and Worship are two different things.
I accept that Kim Jong Un exists.
I will not submit to nor worship him.
I'm hard pressed to think of a scenario where I'd "worship" someone. And only a narcissist or tyrant demands it.
EXACTLY!!! See my comment above.
At the basic level, if something is reasonably self-evident or prooved out of any doubt, faith is not required. Moreover, the social and emotional investment does not automatically follows from the existence (atoms are a thing, but that does not mean we all convert do Democritus' Atomistic school, Ājīvika or Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika or whatever because of it).
Exactly. Faith is unnecessary in the presence of knowledge.
6:28 "But he loves me" the refrain of the abused wife covering for her man. No. You don't have to take that shit.
Funny how Drew's 'quote' at the start feels acceptable, but it's edgy r/atheism stuff if I flip it: "Theists just don't want to submit to the truth. That's their problem. We know it, they know it, psychological studies into confirmation bias says it. Scientific evidence has made God's non-existence plain to them as it says in the God Delusion, but they choose to turn away from the truth because of their foolish or pride."
That preachy God-Delusion-Atheism is literally an outgrowth of Evangelical Christianity imo. Feigned intellectual superiority ✅
Desire to create a monoculture in your own image ✅
Claim to exclusively possess truth ✅
I mean it's true, the religious know that god doesn't exist
@@Evan-kwhat an obviously wrong and meaningless statement
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkepticabsolutely butter smooth transition to Ground News ad btw
@@brookejon3695 I take it you're a cultist huh?
"Hey Atheist - explain all of existence or I win"
😆👍🏻
I made a similar comment on a Christian channel that made that same argument and got really piled on 😅
our existence doesn't mean there is an invisible man in the sky. By the way....the bible was written by MAN as I'm sure you are aware. That proves the whole argument from your side is bogus.
Ok, time and heat
The crazy part is that theistic stories explain absolutely nothing. We're held to the highest standards of rigorous science, while they're held to no standards at all.
God is not worthy of worship in the first place.
Existing would be a good start.
Even though I agree your statement is true for all proposed gods (that I’m aware of), it’s better to specify a particular god when making that statement, i.e., “The god of the Christian bible…”
If Jesus life and death were the most important events in history, why did Yahweh not ensure there were reliable, identifiable witnesses to record the events of his life AS THEY HAPPENED
THANK YOU! That's what's bugging me to. We have 4 different accounts of Jesus' life and teachings and they are all slightly different. And most likely written decades later. If he wanted to create a religion he clearly would have told one of his disciples to write it all down while it happens. But no, it's all rumours and hearsay.
Watch _Jesus Christ Superstar_ where at the end Judas wants to know why he chose "such a backward land" and one "with no mass communication!"
It's a very good production that makes you question the whole _Bible_ account. And with great music, too!
Possible answer: because God wants to keep the concept of faith as big part of the belief in Him, because it helps humans to develop emotions and actions that He sees as valuable.
I'm an atheist. But it's very easy for religious people to answer this question while keeping their world view.
"Look, a UFO!!" "Quick, get me my worst camera!!" :D All of the bible happens in a patch of land you can easily cover with a credit card on a 16" globe. God seems to favor showing himself to hermits, religious kooks and drunkards all through the old testament... Jeebus seems to have the same level of public speaking skills. Not quite reassuring on their "sincere wish to have a personal relationship", is it?
I've been visited in dreams by some of my D&D characters! (Actually, an NPC I was running as a DM), but even that didn't convince me of their existence.
I hate the "you dont understand how god thinks, it may look bad to you but its ultimately for good". Well, how do YOU know that he's doing it for good? You dont know how he thinks, you only know what he told you he is, and both a good and evil god would tell the same thing, "what I'm doing is good"
Just because a thing exists doesn't mean it has to be worshipped btw and worshipping a bully is something I wouldn't do ever.
It's pretty silly their whole argument hinges on a bait and switch. They ask you if you would "submit" to answer if you "believe".
@@wax99 Exactly, it's a bad faith, bait-and-switch argument. Bad faith arguments are all they've got.
i desperately want some version of god to be real. it absolutely is not that i dont want to worship one
That thought has crossed my mind, someone to be responsible for this mess. But it appears nature is what it is, merciless, pitiless, uncaring and unthinking.
of course you will and want worship one.... stop showing you are the worst generetion ever existed.
It would be cool if there was some type of big forever afterlife party, I don’t believe in the supernatural and that is where all religions are found. I’m not looking to worship anything, I’ve met past heroes…
not saying I wouldn’t if I found something worthy of it. But all that is just in the make believe isle of the mind.
The nicest version of "God" I ever found is from a short story called "the egg" from Andy Weir.
Kurzgesagt made a nicely animated video about it some years ago.
@@lees907
The thought of existing forever makes me shudder.
If "god" appeared to me, I would still ask questions. As the Great Captain Kirk once asked, "Why does God need a spaceship?" God could just be an alien and still not deserve worship.
What these Christians really want is our blind obedience. They want us to kneel to their beliefs without question.
I would believe that God exists, but I wouldn't worship him.
That's the easiest and simplest answer I can give to this question.
Apologists should be grateful god isn’t real. They would be deserving of hell according to their own rules.
Thou shall not bear false witness. Gotta be their most common “sin”, of breaking a commandment.
Otherwise, nuance is an enemy of silly arguments. Especially if it’s a straw man you created.
At minimum they just make assumptions based on what they believe. And then project it on their straw man of an atheist.
If they ever actually sat down and listened to what an atheist viewpoint was, they wouldn’t be religious anymore.
They are too scared to admit maybe they could be wrong. I’m not scared to admit I could be wrong about gods. I’m waiting for evidence, and I still wouldn’t worship it. The problem they deliberately misrepresent is.
Just because I would admit it was real, doesn’t mean I have to bow down to it.
"bear false witness against thy neighbor" is a specific kind of lie. For monotheist, all lies not that are encouraged if done as a means of promoting their beliefs.
What does worship mean anyway?
yes, that's the big one. they use multiple definitions of the word in the same sentence.
On your second point about two minutes in I imagine if someone said there’s a sniper that you can’t see and he will shoot five people if you don’t do don’t do these heinous acts, like maybe murdering children and their livestock. I not want to submit to that sniper who is doing something immoral, but also I need evidence that that sniper is actually real. I’m not going to follow his rules if I don’t even know if he exists. And if he does exist, I don’t agree with any of his morals so I wouldn’t want to do it anyway.
How are all of these always “questions trivial to answer, have been answered a million times already, and aren’t you supposed to respond to THAT rather than just restate the pointless?”
*If* a god/gods exists then i definitely believe it would be like the greek gods who are *not* always morally good rather just like humans they are morally complex and more than frequently pretty bad people
I agree.
if you abandoned God why do you want believe in him now?
@@D.MarcelloRadice We didn't abondon God. Most of us want there to be a caring and loving God. But me wanting something to be true doesn't make it so. Most of us aren't convinced by the arguements for God's exisntence.
@ 6:00 Here WLC argues that the justification for evil depends on the question whether the perspective is divine or human. That makes his christian morals by definition subjective.
You will never get a Christian to admit that's true. They will always say something like "God is morality itself" or some other circular reasoning
It's highly unlikely indeed. When the apologist says something like that it's time for eg "You gave me another reason to not become a christian - I don't want to become intellectually dishonest like you."
See, the apologist wants to convince me; I don't try to convince the apologist. One of their tricks - and it's the not so hidden idea behind those "hard" questions as well - is to manoevre into the position that he/she tries to justify atheism on the apologist's terms. In the end they'll declare "You couldn't prove me wrong so I am right - christianity is true " I've learned to always be aware of that trap.
So I don't care anymore about them admitting anything. It's their problem, not mine.
A lot of Christians don't submit to God.
They submit to their own imaginations; they worship themselves.
Money and power are the real Gods for them
Translation: they don't believe the exact same things as YOU. So... you're the arbiter of Christian truth are you? As well as possessing universal telepathy. Which people are setting themselves up as gods now?
@robertmiller9735 You need to see some Christians behaving. Not "telepathy" at all.
@robertmiller9735 lmao 😂 u tried it tho I'll give you that
"God has made his existence obvious!"
"God can't make his existence obvious, or it would infringe on free will!"
And that's how you recognize a liar and manipulator who's trying to take advantage of you.
"I don't know" is the perfect answer to most questions about faith.
I hate the approach of ...if Christianity was proved to be true would you believe...christianity is so full of contradictions that it simply can't be true, whether a god created the world and whether that god resembles some of the christian writings is a completely different question
I think xians like to conflate their actual question once we answer. "would you believe in god if it proved itself to you." The answer is yes...as beliefs aren't free choices. However, this is where the conflation comes in......they are taking "believe in" to mean the same as "worship." Sorry, it just isn't....those are two COMPLETELY different questions. My answer to the former is YES....my answer to the latter would be......"If this gods character is accurately represented in the bible....then ABSOLUTELY NOT."
To me....this is just another display of xian dishonesty or ignorance.
Exactly! A lot of them pretend these questions are the same (like the dude at the beginning.) It's very frustrating
nah the Christian god seems like a jerk
I feel like the question of whether youd submit to god if he could prove without a shadow of a doubt that he exists isnt worth answering. If you ask Christians if theyd submit to another religions god if proven true they ultimately wouldnt answer and would imply they know it's not true so they don't have to answer. Almost every time I've had Christians avoid engaging with the question when flipped on them
Precisely...because they almost HAVE to be dishonest to keep their fragile narrative intact.
Hi I'm a Christian, and yes, if another god or gods proved themselves to be real to me I'd submit to them. I'd rather stay alive and happy than take on their wrath.
@@emmadasilva1794Always be on the winning side, right? 😆😆
@@abdul-kabiralegbe5660 Yup if it means I don't die and/or suffer!
@@emmadasilva1794 Your self preservation instinct is too strong. 😆
I just have a funny cartoonish view of you jumping ship if it turns out your current beliefs are wrong.😆
Hi Drew, 🍿 I would love to attend the cinema with you guys! So much!
Well... Germany 🇩🇪 is a bit too far, unfortunately. I wish everyone a good time! Let us know how it went!
11:15 I absolutely agree 💯
@ 8:00 "I don't want to burn for eternity."
That's about the last thing that worries me. Burning is a physical process, so by definition it won't happen to anyone in non-physical afterlife.
This is like saying would you submit to Hitler because we know he existed. That's a morally bankrupt position.
Even if God were real, I wouldn't worship him because of the simple fact that he's a negligent abuser. 🤷🏾♀️
The thing is that if god was real and was as described in the bible, I'd do everything against him that I could. He's a monster. I don't think any of the villains in any other book I've read are that horrible people.
So no, I wouldn't worship him but I would definitely change my attitude towards christians for the worse. Worshipping an imaginary horrible person is not bad but a real one is.
"Belief in God" and "agreeing with God and thinking it worthy of worship" are two very, very dufferent things. If the christian god was proven to exist, the closest thing for me would be to consider it a sort of interdimensional lovecratean warlord; an angry, hateful and vindictive monster claiming to be "loving" while doing and encouraging some pretty horrible stuff.
I'd pose them the same question with the god of a different religion because I'm curious if they are capable of grappling with the same issue they are posing to us.
As Forrest Valaki said “ I would not worship him because he is a monster”
I love how the Christians immediately conflate “believe” with “worship.” So even if god exists, and we all believe he exists because this is made clear to all, that doesn’t mean we would necessarily *WORSHIP* this god for all the reasons you mention.
On another note, hasn't Douglas Adams already answered this question some decades ago?
Douglas Adams wrote:
"The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."
What this question is really asking in a subtle way is "Do you agree with us on everything except for god existing" The answer is usually no, as most atheists have values and beliefs that don't align with the fundamentalist Christian ones. (Abortion rights, LGBTQ rights, religious freedom, etc) How spinless would an atheist have to be to flip these beliefs on a dime just because Yahweh was proven to exist? How could an atheist honestly not see such a 180 as an act of cowardice. If I were to worship such a god, Id be no better than the North Koreans who worship the Kim family just to avoid the prison camps.
If there was a god it wouldn't demand worship, any god claim including that is just laughably human-conceived.
I mean, what if it's just a Star Trek 5 situation where it's just a really powerful being claiming to be a god? How could I tell the difference (unless it starts to demand a starship)?
I can show myself and I am not a god. Should be a simple thing to pop in once in a while just to let humans know that you actually exist outside of the imaginations of greedy religious salesmen.
Q: Do you want "X" to be true?
A: Reality is unconcerned with my preferences or in other words "Facts DON'T Care About My Feelings"!
I could believe in God, if He showed Himself. But worship? No. I do not worship evil.
Your content always gives me something to think about; sometimes for days after I’ve watched it. Really well done, insightful, and rare to find on social media. Thank you!
IF this is an IF question. IF said magic spirit could answer my questions to a point where I felt they were worthy of my worship, yes. Otherwise no.
I KNOW the postman exists, no reason to worship him or put up with broken packages and "you were out notes" when I was at home all the damn day day.
I'm an atheist by definition, not by choice. If there was evidence for god, I'd believe in god.
The hardest question is "why do grown adults believe in fairytales"?
Religious people seem to forget that these questions also apply to them. They are also atheists in regards to every other religion they don't believe in
That's what makes Pascal's Wager such good satire
The answer always is: we dont know and will not until we die.
King of love? The god that drowned the world in a flood?!
I won't worship god even if he's real, why? cause he's flawed.
If i was omnipotent I would have done a much better job in a blink of eye, in compare to what god have done in thousands of years
Show me a god that doesn't need to be in my life because He believes that his creation doesn't need a fix.
What? The problem is that you need God, and you can not look foward to abandon this toxic cult called atheism.
@@D.MarcelloRadice You do not need people's idea of god to move through life in harmony with the universe.
Guanyin is my favorite goddess/god (they have been portrayed as either male/female and sometimes gender neutral).
She is so good that when she went to hell, she witnessed many of the souls suffering there, and released her own good karma she accumulated in her lifetimes, freeing the inhabitants into Heaven and Earth. Hell ended up becoming a paradise that Yama had to tell her to gtfo or she will destroy his realm.
If gods/goddesses exist, I hope it's her. I don't care if she isn't all powerful or omnibenevolent. Her just being a generally good entity, even with some flaws is enough for me.
I was working at a cram school in Taiwan when we had taken over a former Catholic school. We were cleaning out the (deconsecrated) chapel when my boss showed me a painting and asked in puzzlement "Why does a Catholic church have picture of Guanyin in it?"
It was the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus done in Chinese style.
@6:00 Soo... according to Craig(?), Eve and Adam never ate of the fruit of knowing good and evil?
If we can't not know God's good vs evil... then, did Eve and Adam eat the fruit?
Craig is just another snake oil salesman who happens to have degrees.
Very well explained and interesting video. Thank you!
Asked if I would like christianity to be true, I would answer "No, because I strictly prefer pastafarianism to be true, even though I do not believe in it"
Well, you have an al dente heart which needs to be softened some more.
I'm a 60 year old Christian (progressive) and the atheist 'gotcha' questions are just awful and insulting. Thanks for what you do.
What gotcha questions would those be?
A thought experiment for believers: If your god (doesn't matter which one) came to you at 3am, waking you up from your sleep, told you "Time has corrupted my holy word! I now need you to throw away your old beliefs and preech the new word I shall give you now!", what would you do?
I think it's also a weird question because there's no consensus on what a "real" manifestation of God would even look like. Am I supposed to change my beliefs if a bearded ghost appears, a burning bush, a face in the clouds, a blinding light, or something else? The very notion that They could take on any form makes it impossible to be sure it's actually Them, especially when so many claims of appearance are in subtle ways that require heavy interpretation.
If we're to say God is purely the concept of goodness, and that it exists in ourselves through our lived experience, then yes I can get behind that. I'd say that is as real as any psychological construct. When we try to take it outside of that context into some separate entity, the whole thing falls apart in so many ways that we could go on forever about every conflict with our realties. That is the core problem with religion from my perspective. Everyone sees the world from a unique perspective, yet the claim is only one of those is valid.
A few years ago, I was at my mother for christmas. Her husband dad was also there. We were just about to eat christmas dinner and he went super mad, because we didn't pray before eating the food. After that he kept asking if i was an atheists, I kept saying i don't really know what that is and I don't care. He said he had proof god was real. He asked me what I would say after I sneezed. So i said "excuse me". He then got angry again, and said "No you say god bless you, that why god is real". I laughed, then my mum hit me really hard on the back of the head.
The very premise of them using fictional "If __ Then __?" statements is a very convenient turn-of-conversation to protect them from having to explain to us why, with the knowledge and logic available to us in this world, life and existence should we have to acquiesce to any of their beliefs in the first place.
If I had sufficient reason to believe that jwhw existed, I still wouldn't worship him - for the same reasons christianists won't worship satan. And if the bible is to be trusted, the judeao-christian god is much worse than his adversary. And when I listened again to the question again, the word was submit rather than worship. Choosing my words carefully here - if someone had the means of removing my existence, I would be very much more inclined to "submit," That wouldn't in the least change my my opinion that the person was a vile waste of space.
Rules for Gods
1. Any god who excludes vast populations of humanity from a heaven despite their merits, to save only those who show proper allegiance, is a bigoted deity. Thou shalt not worship such a god.
2. Any god who reveals themself to only one charismatic individual and not the whole of humanity is being an unethically elitist deity. Thou shall not worship such a god.
3. Any god who insists on worship and glorification is a vain and superficial deity. Thou shalt not worship such a god.
4. Any god who calls for the exploitation or destruction of innocents is a psychopathic deity. Thou shalt not worship such a god.
5. Any god who creates things for the purpose of condemning them is an unreasonably cruel deity. Thou shalt not worship such a god.
6. Any god who insists their followers disregard observable facts, requiring them to deny evolution, claim the earth is only six thousand years old, or the world is flat, is a dangerously duplicitous god. Thou shalt not worship such a god.
We should reserve our loyalties for those who merit them.
Why would you submit to God to avoid Hell? You do realize that means going to Heaven right? A place where you either have to spend the rest of eternity acting like a model sycophant in a celestial surveillance state to avoid being sent downstairs on a whim, or you are rendered incapable of sin which is really just flowery language for a soul lobotomy so it wouldn't be "you" in Heaven anyway. Annihilation, eternal separation from God, even just eternal torture (you have forever to learn to tune it out) are all preferable.
It's so simple.
1. Evidence *a god exists* justifies *belief a god exists.*
2. Evidence *that god is also worth worshiping* justifies *worship.*
It should concern theists if they have to blur those two very different ideas. (Yet that's exactly what they're doing when they pretend evidence *a god exists* should justify *worship.* )
'If it is proven God exists, would you believe and follow him?'
1. Which God?
2. Which Theology?
3. Your parents exist, but if they have abused you, do they deserve to be your parent? We have CPS for a reason.
The parent might have birthed you, but that doesn't mean they deserve your praise if they only did that just to abuse you.
Y'know, even as an agnostic: I don't know; coming face to face, or whatever, with something that could be considered a deity does not mean I would worship said entity. I can understand the Hebrews making a deal with one of the Elohim for protection, for victory over their enemies, etc. But that was pretty much a "what's in it for me?" situation and the entity delivered. But ... I'm not a culture or society or country bent on conquest and I don't find a deity that sacrifices everyone else on the planet for my desires is worthy of worship. Don't see that the profit is worth the coin.
The assumption their god is THE god must be addressed. Religious people act assumptively, get that perspective corrected first.
I correct this by saying "You mean your deity found in your holy book, not just some god we were both uninformed about, correct?"
Funny you should mention The Exorcist because Father Merrin is one of the coolest characters ever. From the book,
“Who can know?” answered Merrin. “Who can really hope to know? And yet I think the demon’s target is not the possessed; it is us… the observers… every person in this house. And I think-I think the point is to make us despair; to reject our own humanity, Damien: to see ourselves as ultimately bestial, vile and putrescent; without dignity; ugly; unworthy. And there lies the heart of it, perhaps: in unworthiness. For I think belief in God is not a matter of reason at all; I think it finally is a matter of love: of accepting the possibility that God could ever love us.” […] “And perhaps even Satan-Satan, in spite of himself-somehow serves to work out the will of God.”
If humans are unable to tell if God is good or bad due to our limitations, that is just as much a reason NOT to worship him as the reverse. If God really were all powerful, he would be able to demonstrate his incontrovertible goodness in a way that humans can understand; and if he can do that and chooses not to, then my opinion on whether he's good or bad clearly makes no difference to him and my free will is meaningless to him, all he wants is to exert his authority over me. He's either incompetent or rigging the game.
My problem with these questions is that they’re ultimately pointless.
When completely cleaned up, the question boils down to "If we assume for a moment that I'm 100% right, would you accept that I'm 100% right?"
Beyond that, there's the fact that my answer is irrelevant because this hasn't happened, and I - by definition - don't believe it ever can. Its a useless hypothetical.
Would I submit to the Abrahamic God if he was real? What makes the individual's ideal notion of self worth worshiping?
Do I want Christianity to be true? Yes or no does not change the fact that it's an iron age mythology.
"Would you submit to God if evidence wasn't an issue?" "Would I submit to an all good, all loving, all powerful god if evidence wasn't an issue? Absolutely. That being said, evidence is absolutely an issue in more ways than one."
The real question atheists can't answer is "If God isn't real, why is there so much heaven in the sky?"
There is no heaven in the sky, air travel blows.
...what?
Yeah, you're right. The universe is so f-ing large, a personal, divine, loving God-being must exist, that totally makes sense!
@@jmabu4u😂🤣
"why" is begging the question
Doesn't God know what evidence it would take to convince me of his existence? If so, what's He waiting for?
It's funny how Christians claim we can't know the mind of God or His intentions...except for all the times when they DO know the mind of God and His intentions.
BTW I would love for Christianity to be true if it made the world a better place and fewer people suffered.
If you “can’t understand god’s ways” then you also, necessarily, can’t understand a god in total. You can’t be sure any concept of god is correct. How could you? It’s supposed to be the creator of the universe. Understanding such a being would be a fools errand.
It’s why, while I’m not sure about the existence of A god, I’m absolutely sure no human religion has ever come close to the truth.
the older I get the more I realize it's like trying to argue semantics of how the Orcs in LOTR's economy works with a die-hard Tolkein fan... you might have clues as to what *might* have been going on in the original authors mind but you will never know so pure speculation is all you can ever get... I just wish people didn't try to enact in real life what they can only ever prove is speculation.
Religious people thinking these questions are difficult is probably the reason they're religious. For the intelligent among us, however, it's not an issue.
If an actual god showed himself to me, and could prove that he is indeed a god, then I would obviously believe in him... I don't believe in god not because I don't want to, but because there is zero one exists.
Worshipping on the other hand is a question of: would I be forced to? If not, then no. Why would I?
Hi Drew, that's an interesting set of questions. And yes, unfortunately many theists go for the quick answer that satisfies their preconception rather than honestly debating. Oh well,
i love answering this kind of question as a polytheist. i already believe in the christian god, but theologically i understand him waaay different than most christians, and i don't want or need to worship him.
It's such a weird insistence from some of the faithful that anyone who doesn't worship god is worshipping themselves instead. Why is it so impossible for them to imagine somebody not worshipping anyone at all?
I know Donald Trump exists, and there are people who worship him, but I choose not to even though he objectively exists.