I am not a back packer per se. I am more of a short hike and primitive camper. I really like the info you put out in this video and the shelter options video before this one. I have done some research into these subjects and found your presentation useful for my self and feel it would have been useful for nub me as well. Thank you.
While not designed for through hiking, I did design and made a versatile sleep system that was useful around a fire before bed, in a range of sleeping temperatures and can be used to sleep two. If you would like details, tag me in a comment/reply.
I generally disagree with this notion. Of course I totally understand what you mean - it's much easier to just vent the bag a little in the middle of the night then to somehow get more isolation. This is true. The problem with this thinking is that this is a forced choice of "lesser evil". And choosing any bad option here is... a bad choice. The whole idea is to not be forced to make any adjustment during night and just sleep through. It's really not that important if your sleep was interrupted because you were too cold or to hot. It's all the same. You will wake up multiple times because your gear was badly picked. This is why I think that picking a too cold bag and adding some additional layers if needed (same idea as in cloths layering) is better then having a too hot bag and venting it each hour or two (or having a next-to-zipper-arm cold and another hot). Long sleeve underwear, bag-liners, hats and so on.
@@Rig_JW You are correct. BUT... First of all, this series is geared toward newbies and/or people with no experience that are just thinking about getting into backpacking. Those people have no idea what they need in the backcountry yet, nor do they have the confidence or experience to put together a layering system of any kind (sleep or clothing). Second, that line of thinking is actually supposed to be a cushion for unexpected temperature extremes... "buy a bag that is "X" degrees lower than the coldest temp you expect to encounter".
@@Dan-uw6xv I think that we have same thing in mind and I'll say that to clear the discussion a bit. We all think that it is very important for a newbie to be prepared for colder nights that he anticipate. This is very important and true. We have no disagreement here. The difference in approach here is that I do not think that doing this with one piece of gear is the right choice. And for anyone, no matter their experience. I rather have a more flexible setup. With this I can be hot on a cold night and not-to-hot on a hot night (and those can be 2 nights one after another). And talking about experience and advice. An good advice should be something, that used by a person, will make them know what they need better. After our advice, the recipient should be better then without it. Will "just take hotter sleeping bag" do it? It may or it may not. I depends on the person. It depends if he is a cold or hot sleeper, on what they even think is 'hot enough'. This piece of advice can make a person buy a waaaay to hot sleeping bag or still not hot enough. This is a blind advice because we know nothing about the person receiving it. To add salt to injury, we even anticipate that they have no idea, but we still say "just add more to what you have no idea about". I think that "just get warmer sleeping bag" is the worst version of "be prepared for colder nights than you anticipate". I would advice this: if you are a newbie, buy cheaper colder sleeping bag, get more layers (some old sweaters will do, you can carry them for one day, no harm here) and experiment, while always having a backup layer. This is how you will get experience of what your individual needs are. With the above someone will get experience and knowledge. With "hot bag" advice, they may just end up with a spare sleeping bag.
@@Rig_JW Lol, I have lots of "spare" bags... I own at least a dozen of different temp ratings, different lengths, different insulation. But I also have dozens of layering system possibilities (clothing and sleep system). I have enough experience to know what I need and how to be safe AND comfortable in various situations and environments without taking unnecessary additional gear and/or over-rated gear "just in case". Again, I am not disagreeing with you, and again admit that you are correct. BUT, again, this is just ONE segment in a series "basics of backpacking", or "beginning backpacking", that will include a segment on clothing/layering (actually I think that is today's topic if I heard Dixie correctly). But I think the bigger issue that you are trying to point out, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that we aren't giving new people "the whole picture" all at once. It seems to me that you are saying that we are doing a disservice to the new folks by concentrating on one step at a time (one "step" = one piece of gear). And I can't disagree with that. But if you try to give a new person "the whole picture", all at once, you end up giving them information overload. They get confused and discouraged. Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending this approach, because it is a bit presumptuous to assume that everyone is "too simple" to understand more. But experience, history, and human nature have time and time again proven that most people learn better with "baby steps".
I'm a "toss & turner" side sleeper. When I first started out, Mummy bags were really tough for me UNTIL I learned how to sleep in them. The secret is that they are designed to turn with you. You "wear" them like you'd wear any other clothing and they stay in the same position on your body as you toss and turn. NO turning "in" the bag. This also means you want a bag that has a draft tube over the zipper, then, regardless of what position you are in, you have adequate insulation. Oh, and I totally agree with you about sleeping pads. There is no way I can use a thin closed-cell foam pad to sleep on. Yup, gonna try the Uberlight - full length.
I really appreciate you putting together these backpacking 101 videos. My neice is just getting into backpacking and I am not always the greatest at answering all of her and her moms questions. These videos are so informative and answer darn near every question I had when I first got into backpacking myself. We are eagerly anticipating the rest of the weeks videos! Thanks for being awesome!
I can hardly sleep at night dreaming of the trail with my dog. Yes I keep him on a lease at all times and practice leave no trace. Minnesota is so wet and dreary-can’t wait.
An extra piece of advice: Its generally considered important to bring BOTH a closed cell foam pad and an inflatable pad for winter backpacking. This is partly to double up your insulation, but also so that you have a backup in case your inflatable pops.
If your inflatable pad is PURE inflation, yes. Most pads are a combination of closed cell with an inflatable portion. If inflatable portion dies, you still have a closed cell pad. Maybe a little thin, though.
@@walterronten8008 No. Most backpacking pads do not have closed cell foam pads in them. There are two different types of inflatable sleeping pads. Camping pads, which are bulkier, heavier, often self inflating, usually have some sort of solid foam insulation in them, and are primarily marketed toward the pull up camp site crowd; and backpacking pads, which are much lighter and pack smaller, don't contain closed cell foam and are primarily marketed toward backpackers. They often have some kind of additional insulation, such as metallic reflective lining or other ultra-light insulation, but not foam. Most backpackers use the second type, because hauling the first type 20+ miles sucks. Even a closed cell foam pad by itself is not enough insulation in the winter when your sleeping on snow. A popped sleeping pad with reflective lining and a closed cell foam pad combined may provide survival level protection from 0-10f snowpack, but your still gonna be damn cold. The camping pads you're talking about would not be enough if they popped, unless they had an unreasonable amount of foam in them.
@@anonyymikana206 some people are more comfortable having an experienced person on their first hike. And it isn't just walking its gear, packing, food quantity, ect. So quit being a hater.
Not sure Dixie! I’m just putting together my system for a possible Sobo AT trip, so your video is well timed. In fact I was blowing up my new NeoAir XLite that came in the mail while watching it. I’m a side sleeper who favors very slim pillows, so I may do without or use a puffy coat or something.
@@HomemadeWanderlust my preference is the Sea-to-Summit Areos Pillow XL, I have tried the old Klymit Recon (LOUD), collapsing foam pillow, stuffable down pillow, bag of clothes, clothes stuffed in a T-shirt, and a fill-o where it is a stuff sack with a fleece lining. Best was the cloth covered Areos. One of my friends has gone through 3 because he stored his gear in his car as part of a winter survival kit, I do not recommend this.
I need a pillow otherwise I get a kink in my neck (side sleeper). Clothes end up with hard lumps that are uncomfortable. I just got a Klymit X to try out.
Hello Dixie, thank you for sharing another very informative video. You always do a superb job in presenting the information. The information that you share in your videos is helping countless numbers of backpackers and potential backpackers in making their gear choices. Take care, be safe and have fun. 🤗
I swear by having a silk liner for my sleeping bag. I'm a warmer sleeper but on really cold tramps it is a life saver, it also helps keep your actual sleeping bag cleaner and is way easier to wash - because of the material it only takes a couple of hours max to dry! It adds a wee bit of weight but I think it's definitely worth it
How about manufacturers making liners zip in? I am not a log ànd don't wish for my legs to be tied in a tangle. Best to use thermal clothes base layers and socks. Use wet wipes to wash feet if on the move
@@oddball7483 I agree about liners need zips (the old military ones have buttons), but they would then need flaps along the zip grooves to prevent your body rubbing along the cold zips; plus I have no doubt that fragile zips along the length of a thin liner would snag or break very quickly. I prefer to not use any liner at all, and simply sleep naked inside the bag, even during winter. With a duck/goose down bag, it is no problem to turn the sleeping bag inside out and hang it to air on sunny, or windy days.
When you dry a down sleeping bag (or jacket), just throw some tennis balls into the dryer with it. That'll fluff up the feathers. (disclaimer: I am not responsible for any damages, etc.)
Another way is to tumble dry the bag (low heat), then lay it out on a chaise lounge and beat it with a yardstick (flat side) 'till all the lumps are gone.
Another thing that Dixie didn't mention about fill power... When it comes to down, the higher the fill power number, the higher the quality of the down plumes, and typically the lighter the item. Your lower level fill power (500-600) items will weigh more than higher level fill power (850+). Also, the lower level fill power items will use duck down, and usually some feather content. The higher fill power items will almost always use goose down, and only down plumes - no feathers. Feathers don't insulate, down plumes do. Feathers are heavy, down plumes are not.
Not necessarily true about goose down being used for higher fill down. Some companies use duck down in the 800 range. Also the best down comes from a particular type of duck, eider I believe. But the principle about fill power is the same weight of down of two different fill powers will have different volumes. The down with the greater volume will be warmer with the same weight as the other.
Thanks for this video. I hope you don't mind me spotting an error in your description of 'Fill Power', Contrary to what is said at 6:00, 'Fill Power' is NOT a measure of the volume for the fill contained within a sleeping bag. Instead, fill power is a measure of volume offered PER UNIT WEIGHT of fill (e.g. 900 cubic inches per ounce of fill) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_power. I'm sure you know this, but just missed stating that weight is part of the metric (in the denominator)
Great video and information! Personally as a rule of thumb, I always suggest getting a sleeping bag rated at least 10, but preferably 15-20 degrees colder than the coldest temp expected to be encountered. In my experience, most towns in the US are warmer than the surrounding area. There's also the issue of convection in a windy environment. Also, a lack of food will cause a person's metabolism to slow down reducing body heat. You can always open the bag up if it gets too warm. Not much you can do if you get too cold. As far as sleeping pads are concerned. Inflatable mattress have come down alot in the last few years and one can have a pretty good pad under $50. If you run a inflatable pad, shoe goo and clear gorilla tape is your friend. If you get a hole or tear, repair with a dab of shoe goo or strip of tape. You can make a lightweight protective under sheet for a inflatable pad out of tyvec, plastic sheeting, or tarp. Cut to size and put some double sided tape in the corners. Just some ideas and you all have a great time out there.
Also when buying a down sleeping bag (or down anything) be aware of where the down is coming from and that it is not from live plucking. The most common certificates used are the Global Traceable Down Standard (TDS) or Responsible Down Standard (RDS). Those certificates make sure that the down is neither from force-fed animals who are only plucked as part of food production when they are already dead (and not plucked repeatedly while alive which is very painful).
I would never use down. As an experienced hiker of 40 years I can tell you that not only is down unreliable as an insulator, the RDS does not enforce its guidelines correctly and down is simply a cruel an unnecessary use of an animals life. Regardless of your respect of nature's creatures, synthetic bags are by far more reliable in four season conditions and are now as light if not lighter than down, technology has evolved. If you love nature, respect its inhabitants. You're one of them too.
@@nuovaman3118 if you bird are already dead for food, then you want to waste the rest of the bird? If the bird gave its life for us then shouldn't we use all we can instead of wasting it?
I spent my highest $$ on my sleeping bags after a few years. I have a fleet as I am 4 seasons in the Central Rockies of Wyoming, but every other year my slip off into CA UT NV in the winter. My go-to sleeping bag for most is a Western Mountaineering 15 deg (25 EN) , Alpinist, semi rectangular, that works in most conditions for me down to as advertised with a base layer and head cover, a shemagh or beanie. Three season I like a full length CCF pad,, a Zeelite Sol paired with a short Neo Air UL. Winter, I add a R 2.5-4.o inflatable full length pad instead of the shortie. I like internal frame packs, so the sculpted frame and padding do not make good lower insulation, and I like to hang my pack in bear country because it is stinky. One side of the CCF is always down. The sleeping side up. My winter bag is a 0 deg Marmot Lithium that has been slept in comfortably to -10 f without a liner or extra clothes. I now use a Reactor liner from Sea to Summit that has not been tested below 0 deg. Both of my down bags are premium, 800-900 fill and made in the USA. I take very good care of them; wear base layer sleep clothes, wipe and dry out every trip, and I am not a thru hiker. 30-45 bag nights a year, 1-7 day at a time. At the other end or extreme is my synthetic 40 deg Golite synthetic, hoodless that zips out flat like a quilt, that works beautifully in a quick and dirty summer bivy trip that may get wet. Also at 1.2 pounds, and it Is a day and half trip, a little short on sleep one night or comfort is not terminal. Double wall tent or UL bivy. My 50 something GF can use my cast off CCF Walmart eggcrate pad and my 90s Kelty 25 Lightyear bag and thinks she is in heaven. I am 66, and a side sleeper and would die. [grins]
But that's not actually what it is! 900fp down will take 900 cuin of volume PER OUNCE of down. So if you want to compare loft, multiply fill power by weight of down.
Sleeping on the ground is the exception for me, so I don't have a lot of motivation to invest a lot of money in an expensive insulated pad. I have a Klymit Static V Luxe (I'm 6'2", which is about 2" longer than pretty much all regular length pads). That's my go-to inflatable most of the time if I have to tent camp. If I have to tent camp and it's going to get cold, I also have an old Thermarest Z Lite Sol closed cell foam pad. I simply stack them. Stacking them turns a 1.3 R-value pad (Static V) into a 3.9 R-value system. It's a little heavier than a more expensive insulated pad, but I don't do it that much so it doesn't make sense to drop $200 on a pad I only use maybe once or twice a year.
This is great! I learned so many new and beneficial details. Thank you 🙏. One quick question: any experience with sleeping bag liners? Especially the ones that claim to add several degrees to the warmth of a bag? Thanks!
Great video! Even though I know most of this... it is really a great thing you are doing with this series. Your experience and knowledge is much appreciated!
Do you plan to do a video about trip planning...how you plan for a trip, research, how you find trail shuttles, just general info or steps you take to plan any trip
I don't follow the modern obsession with ultra light gear. Comfort and warmth are vitally essential for good sleep, so carrying a little heavier and bulkier gear more often relates to better sleep and more enjoyable periods outdoors in extreme environments.
Once I've been so cold in my tent so I slept inside my sleeping bag with all my clothes on , with a hoodie on, and I even put my legs into my backpack. After this trip I've saved up money to buy a good sleeping bag.
paulisialinka I inadvertently field tested a homemade wool blanket/sleeping bag combo in the hill country outside of Bandara, Tx. The first night I woke up cold to find my dog curled up arctic fox style with her tail over her nose and non responsive at first (scary). The next night I rearranged my gear and we both slept like bugs in a rug. Both mornings we woke with frost outside, so the temp dropped below freezing both nights.
Rick Stone If you haven’t purchased yet, neoprene yoga mats work well to reflect heat back. If you can find one with a “breathable” cloth on one side, all the better. They are thinner than closed foam pads, but great in colder weather.
We have down mummies, and when we hammock camp, use an underquilt (short trips only, so far) and use the mummy like a quilt. It's nice to have the option of being surrounded by a bag, if I need it.
I have to ask. Why don't quilters just take an open top (no hood) sleeping bag, unzip it all the way, and then just drape it over themselves like a quilt? I have done this for years and and find it comfortable. You have the extra weight of the zipper, but also have the option of zipping it up as a bag if colder than expected weather hits.
These are great gear info insights, Dixie...! I have both and I've had my down bag for 30yrs maybe almost forty, and still very lofty. I'm not a hard core hiker though. I keep it stored in a large volumnous cotton sleeping bag storage bag.
Dixie, this is off-topic, but whilst doing dishes I thought of a thru-hike topic that I don't remember being covered yet by any vloggers. I see so many emotional good-bye to family moments by beginner thru-hikers, or videos of their work farewell parties. But with only a quarter of thru-hikers successfully completing their attempted hikes, it leaves me wondering if there's an awkward return-home moment for those hikers that leave trail a short while after they start..? Would you advise any would-be thru- hikers to try to minimize the great farewells, based on the unfortunate likelihood that many will return home sooner than expected? Thanks!
Has anyone actually used an air sack that works without spending lots of time running around looking like Link catching fairies in Legend of Zelda? I am the proud owner of one, and used it 1/2 a time and now I use it as a bag only. Didn’t know about the front load washer and sleeping bags, good to know. Like your videos, keep it up and stay wild! Looking forward to watching CDT next.
I bought the Nemo Tensor that came with an inflation bag. It worked surprisingly well. It only takes about 2.5 bags to completely fill my pad. You just hold it about 1 ft away from your mouth and gently blow a puff of air. You don't put your face down in it.
Thanks Dixie, I agree with you. I have a feathered friends flicker 20 and also a north face Blue Kazoo 15 ( both plenty warm for me.) The quilt is less restrictive for sure because I side sleep and toss n turn but it is definitely more drafty in my opinion. And I use Exped sleep mats R 3.9 and higher. The exped Downmat is the warmest I’ve ever had. I think a high R value is super important for the best warm comfort. Keep up the awesome videos We really enjoy them 😃
I made the DIY Costco Quilt and Underquilt. 750 Duck down fill. I didn't do the foot box for the over quilt. I tend to be a "kicker" when I sleep and find a foot box annoying. The DIY Costco Quilt is a cheap entry to using a quilt. The Quilt costs around $20. Simple sewing skills and there are a ton of patterns and videos out there. I've used my set up down to the low 30°s and was comfortable in thin long johns and a thin thermo shirt with a pair of wool socks, sleeping in a hammock. Down sides of the Costco DIY- yes, it's 750 fill but not stuffed to actual capacity. They're a little skimpy on the fill. My next version, I'm definitely going to buy extra down to "bulk" up a bit. Especially for the UQ. The down settles to the lowest point in the middle through the he center. So, no CBS, but I have had issues with a cold draft around my neck and the top of my shoulders. More fill should solve that. 😀 One last point, it's way easier to cool off if you're too hot than it is to get warmer if you're cold. Especially if you're already asleep. I'd suggest going a little more to a colder rated bag or quilt. You can always kick it open or off. Rummaging for extra layers in the middle of the night is a pain. Great video, Dixie!! Keep 'em coming!!!
That's the most comprehensive video I have ever seen on this! You obviously have experience! Thanks for sharing. I love my neoair but I'm tired of mummy bags so exploring options for the next season.
quilt(made my own due to price of enlightened equipment) was a gamer changer for me, as well as the klymite v luxe due to the extra width, side sleeper. yet to find a perfect tent though.
Thank you soooo much for explaining this with knowledge and experience !!! I've hiked all over north Alabama while listing to your you tube channel. I always tell all my hiking friends to subscribe 👍👍 Thank you ma'am
In terms of insulation , can’t wait for the further development of milkweed fibres (Asclepiad) here in Quebec; 100% natural, hydrophobic, compressible and warmer than anything; super light, warm even when wet: it’s gonna be a revolution! It’s a weed that grows everywhere and helps the survival of the Monarch butterfly to top it off.
My sleep system is pretty basic. I use the Thermarest NeoAir Trekker regular length, a Sierra Designs 20 degree down mummy bag and for a pillow I use the stuff sack the bag came stuffed with clothes. Dixie didn't mention it, but I've learned to not sleep in a down bag without some clothes on because of the moisture your body puts out and also the oils from your skin will affect the effectiveness of the bag.
Dixie, fantastic overview of sleepy gear. your overview is the very best out there. i have always hung my Serria Designs 10 degree down bags while storing them. they are now 35 yrs old and working fine minus the. stains a bumps and brushes plus maybe lost a little R value over the yrs. i washed my with wool lite and air dry outside in the sun, then fluff on low heat and they come out superb lofty with not clumping. hope this helps other maintain their down bags.
I’m so excited! I’m starting to plan my very first backpacking trip! Might be solo, my sis might go, but I’m def going regardless! I can’t take off work long enough to thru hike but I am gonna take a week off to hike the Great Smoky Mnts part of the AT, hopefully next fall! I’m researching, & purchasing gear a little at a time. Your channel has been so helpful to my sis & I! Neither of us have been backpacking before. Camping many times, & day hiking, but not backpacking. My down quilt just arrived in the mail today, & I’m so giddy b/c I’m that much closer to my goal!! I also bought the book “Wild, Lost & Found On The PCT”, & can’t wait to read it! Movie was great. ✌️♥️
To clarify what you said about down fill power, it is a measurement of the volume , in cubic inches, that 1 ounce of down, at the stated fill power rating, will occupy. For example, 1 ounce of 800 "fill power" down will occupy 800 cubic inches of space.
Thank you for all the advice you give in your videos. Very informative! I realized alot of items you choose while backpacking is personal and comes through "trial" and "error" and "live" and "learn" experience but you give alot of good advice.
I'm laughing so hard right now I'm going to the UK in the spring but was worried about the cold so bought a sleeping matt with an R rating of 4.4 because I didn't really understand how the system worked.... overkill much, at least I'll be right the next time I'm in -29 degree weather... cause that happens a lot
Thank you very much for your informative videos. I know take a lot of work and planning. You are very appreciated. I do have one question for you please that I did not see addressed in this video. What is your experience with sleeping bag liners. It is my understanding that a good liner will help keep your bag clean and possible add about 10 degrees of warmth. Thank you for your time.
Thank you so much! V helpful for someone who hasn’t been out there for 20 years pre-kids and looking to get back out again soon. Nice to know what is new since I last did this (quilts?!). Also love the advice from a fellow side sleeper.
Nice video and some good tips. But that ultralight backpacking/hiking stuff is very expensive. Goose hood 65 dollars? I have a balaclava that cost me about 5 dollars. I actually never did meet anybody that used the same sleeping bag (or any equipment for that matter) for 30 years. They could be out there but I did not meet them. There's always new models coming out and there's a fashion aspect also. My guess would be 3 years of use before being replaced is more likely. When blowing air into a pad it's hot air (body temperature) that will cool down and shrink over night so be prepared to blow in some extra air during the night to keep it comfortable. But a good video about some stuff you need to consider and investigate before buying indeed.
2 points: 1. Getting a Z Seat would be a great way to keep yourself from sitting on the hard ground while carrying an inflatable pad. They weigh nothing, even for those of us who count grams. 2. "accordion style" closed cell foam pads (Thermarest Z Lite, etc.) can be folded in half and used to create structure for pack if you place it inside the pack and against your back. If you don't want to put it in your pack, you can strap it to the top.
A system that works well for me is a down based PHD sleep system.. A pair of down trousers, a half bag 165 grams which is a sleeping bag that comes up to my chest, plus the down jacket that I carry anyway. So only 165g for the bag, 140g for the trousers which are also handy for chilly evenings outside the tent etc. The PHD hooded winter jacket rated -5c is about 270g. But essentially, my sleep system minus pad weighs 305 grams. Of course with down gear, 'Maintenance' is important to to prevent damp build up ie air it at every opportunity. I've successfully used this in the Alps down to temperatures that cause frost on the inside of the tent.
Another thing to consider... When using an inflatable pad that you blow up manually, the moisture in your breath will collect inside the pad. In testing it has been found that this moisture will freeze (in cold weather, obviously) and reduce the 'R' value of that pad. This is an issue you need to keep in mind when choosing your gear. Just like all gear choices, you need to consider weather conditions/temperature range before choosing. (personally, I am slightly grossed out by the knowledge that the moisture build up is causing bacteria growth inside the pad)
@Garrick Cicero on that specific instance his had only the space blanket type insulation, most dont (they have primaloft or something like it) and WILL collect moisture. I cant count how many people have reported mold in even that model pad, let alone ones that have real insulation.
My system, for a 250 pound, semi-athletic sloth who prefers to sleep in a bedroom at 50° with a down blanket and light comforter all winter EE 20° Quilt XL and Wide or Massdrop Pine 40° quilt Klymit Static V Insulated Pad ($65 and 14 oz at R4.4) Sea-to-Summit Areos Pillow, XL model Wool beanie I can't sleep without a pillow of some flavor
In the old days, one's pad was outside the bag / quilt, but now it seems that the pad goes inside one's bag quilt (11:00). I have also seen where the foot box is out of the pad, but the torso part of the pad is in the bag. Is that just something that one figures out on their own? I now always have the pad inside my bag or quilt because then I am trapped on the pad and never roll off. I have an EE Revelation quilt with the drawstring closure at the foot. If one moves legs or arms inside the quilt and expands the volume of the internal space, then air is sucked inside to fill the created vacuum. One must tighten the foot drawstrings around a sock or two in order to keep that hole from being the entrance for the cold air and close the hole, Otherwise, one is guaranteed cold feet.
Another amazing review. I have switched to down EE quilt and will never go back. I turn from side to side and having the freedom of a quilt is great and with the straps under my pad, no cold spots. I have backup down hood and booties, and of course a puffy, for temps below rating.
I use the REI Flash sleeping pad for a few reasons. I am a cold sleeper. I am a side sleeper and the Flash keeps me off the ground. I live and backpack exclusively in Alaska. It is not uncommon to camp on snow in July. If I am anywhere near glaciers and ice fields, the air is super cooled. I typically lay a sheet of Tyvek down with my sleeping pad on top to insulate me from the permafrost. I have a warmer sleeping bag that is rarely unzipped at night.
For the last 2 years I've been upgrading bit by bit my sleeping system and clothes since it is all rather expensive for a student. Just bought the Nemo tensor insulated and a Nemo Fillo Elite pillow to pair with my EE30° quilt. Might also buy next year a UGQ0°/-10° for the colder nights early spring/late autum in the alps.
Do you know if people use sleeping bag liners very much when thru hiking? To me it seems worth it because a silk one will add a nice layer of warmth for not too much weight, at it'll keep your bag from getting as dirty, but I don't generally hear people listing them as part of a sleep system.
Thank you for doing these intro videos! I'm starting an AT thru hike in april and love watching them. If you're still open to ideas, I'd love help with planning my beginning mileage and stops. I know when I get into a groove, I'll be able to figure out what I can and can't do each day, but for the first couple of weeks, is it best to have a (flexible) idea? One main thing about planning is: I just bought the pdf version of the 2019 awol northbound guide. I also downloaded their 12 miles/day planning guide. I know the planning guide was done in 2011, but the elevation gain and loss is drastically different than what's in the 2019 guide I just purchased. I can't imagine mountains would change that much. For example, for day 3 gooch mt shelter to woody gap, I only see max 1000 feet elevation gain and about 700 loss on the 2019 guide. But the 12 miles/day planning guide says there's 3429 elevation gain and 2629 loss. That's a huge difference. I am VERY new to this and have only done guided trips. So this is my first time planning myself and I'm now nervous I'm doing something wrong. Please can someone help me understand the large discrepancy between them and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you so much!
I have the NeoAir X Lite “WOMEN’S” inflatable sleeping pad - it’s slightly shorter than the regular but at 5ft 8 I just fit on it from head to toe. It’s warmer than the regular at an R value of 3.5 AND weights the same at 12oz so if you are a person of 5ft 8 or shorter you may as well buy the “Women’s” pad and get the warmer r value with no weight penalty!
very helpful thank you. Saw quilts in a through hike vid and didn't know what they were/what their advantage was. I've been out of the camping gear loop for so long now. 90% of my gear is still relevant though as I did research at the time 🏞
The camping shop dude told me you don't want to be blowing up your sleeping pad (mattress) by mouth as it puts moist air in there and you'll freeze. They sold me a little pump-up mattress with a built-in pump which is a bit of a pain to use but if you zen out while pumping it it's not a drama. The mattress works great for keeping your hip off the ground too btw.
I have always used a foam pad, and I have slept really good. I tried once inflatable pad and I just couldn't sleep like at all, this video was so useful so a big thank you to you, love your videos
Awesome video, It's nice that you go in depth with different materials, ratings, and overall explanation what to look out for. I appreciate that you explain the small things that other people don't really go into. Really helps me narrow down my decision of what id like to use.
I always thought a sleeping bag was a bag to compensate you for a lack of generating heat because you're sleeping instead of hiking. You always bring clothing to compensate you for the coldest weather you expect to experience, if you wear that clothing when you're in your sleeping bag you should not need a -30 degree sleeping bag for freezing weather.
Sooooo. The husband and I want to start backpacking. We camp often and hike long miles on weekends and camping trips. But we always sleep in a single tent and we zip our sleepingbags together. What options are there (if any) for people who sleep together?
Used a combo down/wool bag. It had a army wool blanket liner. With outer nylon liner and ensolite pad the down bag with liner I slept in -30F temps with no problem except getting out of the bag, because nobody wanted to get up and start the fire.
I'm buying a pop up camper this week and am planning a 14 day trip in mid to late November on the Canadian border. The camper comes with a heated mattress but I don't know how warm that will get and I am always cold. Should I buy one of those sleeping pads that are rated 4 or above and put it on top of the heated mattress or would that not be effective? Are these pads meant only for tent camping? Would the warmth from the heated mattress heat the camping pad all the way through so that I feel it in my sleeping bag? Temps are supposed to be in the 20's but I want to be prepared for worst case. Note that I am always cold.
The main reason I bring the little fan/pump that came with my neoair is condensation from my breath. It'd be much more convenient to leave it at home, because of the weight and because it's my only non-rechargeable device so batteries are a pain. I know a lot of people say it doesn't matter but I've also heard of people ending up with moldy pads. I definitely wouldn't bring it on a thru-hike though since the weight matters a lot more and by the time it might get gross you've already got your money's worth.
You are doing amazing on these daily videos, super informative, easy to understand, and really well thought out. So cool to have seen how far you have come. HAPPY HIKING !!!!!!!!!!!!
Just a note for the people trying hammocks. You can use a pad and a sleeping bag to start if the cost of quilts is prohibitive. It’s not as comfortable or as light but it will get you through. Just know that at your shoulders you’ll need to add something (Reflectix?) to insulate if you come off the pad.
Thanks Dixie! I found a comfy synthetic rectangular sleeping bag (only 3.2lbs with stuff sack) I really like and haven't thought about switching. For just weekend camping/backpacking, if the temperatures are warm, the bag is swapped for a wool blanket. This makes the quilt option intriguing for me. While I was 100% satisfied with what I was doing, perhaps I can be even more satisfied. :) 100% agree with Dixie. I have slept on foam and inflatable. As someone who side sleeps a lot, inflatable is more than worth the price. You probably spend an extra 5 to minutes per day inflating and deflating it, but it is totally worth it.
HA! Pads... the devil in my pack. I use both a Thermo-rest (Cheapest one) and an inflatable (I'm on my billionth inflatable). I am a side sleeper and that combo helps with the grinding pain in my hip and shoulder were it not for the combo. The foam is a good backup when the inevitable deflating of the inflatable happens (One BILLION times so far it seems). When the inflatable fails, I supplement the high stress points with clothing. It works... meh, sort of good. Really it's no noticeable weight increase when carrying the two. I love your channel, you're gorgeous, be my wife, carry on. NOTE: I have had no more luck with the expensive inflatables than have with the cheap ones. (Just my personal experience) and I have spent HUNDREDS on the combined expensive ones. Self inflating ones are STRAIGHT GARBAGE. Just sayin'.
Dixie, don't do a sewn foot box and I'll tell you why. Drawstring or such foot boxes stay shut and don't let drafts in and you can always wear sock or down booties in them too but when not sleeping, such as sitting around outside, you can open the foot box and wrap the quilt around you and still be able to get up and walk around if needed too. Also, if it gets really nice you can open up the foot box and just drape the quilt over you too.
I have used a Thermarest Luxurylite cot (or camp bed) for my last two trips (Kililmanjaro and Land's End to John o'Groats (LEJOG). It's a bit heavy (3lb9oz) but, given that I' nearly 70, was a luxury I thought was worthwhile just so that I could get a good night's rest. And I did. It keeps you off the ground and is much more comfortable than an ordinary bed roll. However, on LEJOG when I was half way through I gave up the bed for a simple bed roll because of the weight. I didn't regret it.
Dixie can you reach out to the community and ask if anyone has tried the new Uberlite with the upgrade of the wing lock system? Bought the first model back in February 2019 for my PCT hike and had to blow it up 3-4 throughout the night, first four nights. Sent it back to REI. Had to go back to the XThrem large very heavy. Now, they came out with the wing lock. Has anyone tried this new one out yet? Merry Christmas 🎄🎁 a big hugs 🤗 to you and your family. Oh and loved seeing your mom out on trail with you & fancy. Lol 😆 As an old lady I always looking to drop weight.
If 3 pounds are the ideal weight for JUST a sleeping pad and sleeping bag... With a relatively cheap hammock setup (from "Hummingbird Hammocks") you can get away with only 3,358 pounds/1,523kg for your entire "shelter kit" with a 2 pound sleeping bag..! The zpacks duplex with a 3 pound "sleep system" is 4,21pounds/1,91kg - but this tent costs $600. You get the tarp, hammock, and mosqito net for $240 total (616g total, and VERY compact size). I would not use a quilt, because then i need both over and under quilts, which takes more room and weighs more than 1 sleeping bag. I just cut a small slit in the bottom of the sleeping bag (and sow around the edges to seal it), just big enough that i can run the carabiner on my hammock through the hole. That way i can have the sleeping bag as a "pod" around my hammock so i dont lay down on the sleeping bag and compress it. Not ideal if you insist on sleeping diagonally, but i just tie the hammock up pretty tight, and then i can sleep very comfortably in a fetal position (mummy bags may not have the room for sleeping in fetal position). This is actually so comfortable that i have bought a hammock-stand for my bedroom, and have been sleeping in my hammock for the last 5 months.
I have used a closed cell under a thin self inflating. My sleeping bag has a pouch that both slide into under the bag. The bag itself has no insulation on the bottom, only fabric, so some sort of pad is a necessity. This hybrid type of pad solution protects the air pad from the ground, and if the air pad does fail, I still have the closed cell under me.
Time Stamps!
00:42 SLEEPING BAGS and QUILTS
00:48 Sleeping Bags Shapes (Mummy vs Rectangle)
02:11 Hooded vs Non-Hooded
03:11 Down vs Synthetic
05:50 Fill
06:25 Temperature Range
09:49 Shell Materials
10:34 QUILTS (Pros and Cons)
13:36 SLEEPING PADS
13:51 Foam Pads
15:34 Self-Inflating Pads
16:20 Inflatable Pads
18:44 R-Value
19:27 Conclusion
Timestamp overload 🤯
Thank you for taking the time to do this, it is appreciated.
Wow a lot of great info! I like the accent reminds me of East Tennessee.
I am not a back packer per se. I am more of a short hike and primitive camper. I really like the info you put out in this video and the shelter options video before this one. I have done some research into these subjects and found your presentation useful for my self and feel it would have been useful for nub me as well. Thank you.
While not designed for through hiking, I did design and made a versatile sleep system that was useful around a fire before bed, in a range of sleeping temperatures and can be used to sleep two. If you would like details, tag me in a comment/reply.
When in doubt,,,,always go colder in the rating of a Bag......much easier to cool off than warm up.
B Z AGREED
I generally disagree with this notion.
Of course I totally understand what you mean - it's much easier to just vent the bag a little in the middle of the night then to somehow get more isolation. This is true.
The problem with this thinking is that this is a forced choice of "lesser evil". And choosing any bad option here is... a bad choice. The whole idea is to not be forced to make any adjustment during night and just sleep through. It's really not that important if your sleep was interrupted because you were too cold or to hot. It's all the same. You will wake up multiple times because your gear was badly picked.
This is why I think that picking a too cold bag and adding some additional layers if needed (same idea as in cloths layering) is better then having a too hot bag and venting it each hour or two (or having a next-to-zipper-arm cold and another hot). Long sleeve underwear, bag-liners, hats and so on.
@@Rig_JW You are correct. BUT... First of all, this series is geared toward newbies and/or people with no experience that are just thinking about getting into backpacking. Those people have no idea what they need in the backcountry yet, nor do they have the confidence or experience to put together a layering system of any kind (sleep or clothing). Second, that line of thinking is actually supposed to be a cushion for unexpected temperature extremes... "buy a bag that is "X" degrees lower than the coldest temp you expect to encounter".
@@Dan-uw6xv I think that we have same thing in mind and I'll say that to clear the discussion a bit. We all think that it is very important for a newbie to be prepared for colder nights that he anticipate. This is very important and true. We have no disagreement here.
The difference in approach here is that I do not think that doing this with one piece of gear is the right choice. And for anyone, no matter their experience. I rather have a more flexible setup. With this I can be hot on a cold night and not-to-hot on a hot night (and those can be 2 nights one after another).
And talking about experience and advice. An good advice should be something, that used by a person, will make them know what they need better. After our advice, the recipient should be better then without it. Will "just take hotter sleeping bag" do it? It may or it may not. I depends on the person. It depends if he is a cold or hot sleeper, on what they even think is 'hot enough'. This piece of advice can make a person buy a waaaay to hot sleeping bag or still not hot enough. This is a blind advice because we know nothing about the person receiving it. To add salt to injury, we even anticipate that they have no idea, but we still say "just add more to what you have no idea about".
I think that "just get warmer sleeping bag" is the worst version of "be prepared for colder nights than you anticipate". I would advice this: if you are a newbie, buy cheaper colder sleeping bag, get more layers (some old sweaters will do, you can carry them for one day, no harm here) and experiment, while always having a backup layer. This is how you will get experience of what your individual needs are. With the above someone will get experience and knowledge. With "hot bag" advice, they may just end up with a spare sleeping bag.
@@Rig_JW Lol, I have lots of "spare" bags... I own at least a dozen of different temp ratings, different lengths, different insulation. But I also have dozens of layering system possibilities (clothing and sleep system). I have enough experience to know what I need and how to be safe AND comfortable in various situations and environments without taking unnecessary additional gear and/or over-rated gear "just in case".
Again, I am not disagreeing with you, and again admit that you are correct. BUT, again, this is just ONE segment in a series "basics of backpacking", or "beginning backpacking", that will include a segment on clothing/layering (actually I think that is today's topic if I heard Dixie correctly).
But I think the bigger issue that you are trying to point out, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that we aren't giving new people "the whole picture" all at once. It seems to me that you are saying that we are doing a disservice to the new folks by concentrating on one step at a time (one "step" = one piece of gear). And I can't disagree with that. But if you try to give a new person "the whole picture", all at once, you end up giving them information overload. They get confused and discouraged. Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending this approach, because it is a bit presumptuous to assume that everyone is "too simple" to understand more. But experience, history, and human nature have time and time again proven that most people learn better with "baby steps".
13:58 NOT ACTUALLY BULLETPROOF. DO NOT SHOOT ANYONE'S PAD
Made my day. :D
I shot my pad to demonstrate to my friends why I didn't get an inflatable mat lmao
They are bullet proof for some smaller bullets.
You could talk about planning a hike. Overnight, weekend etc. How to plan it out.
Mark Vincent yes! Especially when it seems like information about specific hikes is limited. Love this idea
I love the planning stage of a trip. It seems like there are endless possibilities.
It ain’t rocket science.
Awesome idea to put this all into one video, very helpful :)
I'm a "toss & turner" side sleeper. When I first started out, Mummy bags were really tough for me UNTIL I learned how to sleep in them. The secret is that they are designed to turn with you. You "wear" them like you'd wear any other clothing and they stay in the same position on your body as you toss and turn. NO turning "in" the bag. This also means you want a bag that has a draft tube over the zipper, then, regardless of what position you are in, you have adequate insulation.
Oh, and I totally agree with you about sleeping pads. There is no way I can use a thin closed-cell foam pad to sleep on. Yup, gonna try the Uberlight - full length.
Thanks for that tip Don! I've been doing it wrong for twenty years. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.
I love being swaddled in a mummy bag and keeping that cocoon feeling as I toss and turn.
I really appreciate you putting together these backpacking 101 videos. My neice is just getting into backpacking and I am not always the greatest at answering all of her and her moms questions. These videos are so informative and answer darn near every question I had when I first got into backpacking myself. We are eagerly anticipating the rest of the weeks videos! Thanks for being awesome!
ruthrudd1 That’s awesome she’s getting into backpacking. I hope this series helps. Thank you so much for watching 😃
Who else is counting down the days until spring camping season?
Happymars Meeeee 🙋🏼♀️
"Counting down" pun intended?
@@rickharris5485 LOL no, actually. XD
I can hardly sleep at night dreaming of the trail with my dog. Yes I keep him on a lease at all times and practice leave no trace. Minnesota is so wet and dreary-can’t wait.
@@Cam.Klingon I Hear you. I just need the snow to melt just a little more. Enough that I can drive up to 1500ft and snowshoe in at least.
An extra piece of advice: Its generally considered important to bring BOTH a closed cell foam pad and an inflatable pad for winter backpacking. This is partly to double up your insulation, but also so that you have a backup in case your inflatable pops.
Another advantage,the foam pad protects the airpad. should help with wandering mattress syndrome. LOL
Best advice
If your inflatable pad is PURE inflation, yes. Most pads are a combination of closed cell with an inflatable portion. If inflatable portion dies, you still have a closed cell pad. Maybe a little thin, though.
@@walterronten8008 No. Most backpacking pads do not have closed cell foam pads in them. There are two different types of inflatable sleeping pads. Camping pads, which are bulkier, heavier, often self inflating, usually have some sort of solid foam insulation in them, and are primarily marketed toward the pull up camp site crowd; and backpacking pads, which are much lighter and pack smaller, don't contain closed cell foam and are primarily marketed toward backpackers. They often have some kind of additional insulation, such as metallic reflective lining or other ultra-light insulation, but not foam.
Most backpackers use the second type, because hauling the first type 20+ miles sucks.
Even a closed cell foam pad by itself is not enough insulation in the winter when your sleeping on snow. A popped sleeping pad with reflective lining and a closed cell foam pad combined may provide survival level protection from 0-10f snowpack, but your still gonna be damn cold. The camping pads you're talking about would not be enough if they popped, unless they had an unreasonable amount of foam in them.
@@briandoolittle3422 Thanks for the correction.
Every time I watch a video I think "that looks like a really soft sweater"
Kevin S Haha thanks. It is! That’s why I wear it a lot.
I always think that too, it looks very comfortable and looks good too.
I've got a 3/4" self inflating Thermarest that is older than Dixie that still works. I expect it to fail, but it just keeps on going.
Have you ever considered acting as a tour guide for beginner hikers? Guiding people for the At?
U want her to teach people how to walk?
@@myes344 Ah yes, backpacking is only walking. Are you stupid or are you an idiot?
@@anonyymikana206 some people are more comfortable having an experienced person on their first hike. And it isn't just walking its gear, packing, food quantity, ect. So quit being a hater.
You didn’t mention pillows. Might be considered a luxury item, but many people think they need them.
Ziggy Stardog Ahhhh yes. Should have mentioned this! What’s your favorite one?
Not sure Dixie! I’m just putting together my system for a possible Sobo AT trip, so your video is well timed. In fact I was blowing up my new NeoAir XLite that came in the mail while watching it. I’m a side sleeper who favors very slim pillows, so I may do without or use a puffy coat or something.
@@HomemadeWanderlust my preference is the Sea-to-Summit Areos Pillow XL, I have tried the old Klymit Recon (LOUD), collapsing foam pillow, stuffable down pillow, bag of clothes, clothes stuffed in a T-shirt, and a fill-o where it is a stuff sack with a fleece lining.
Best was the cloth covered Areos. One of my friends has gone through 3 because he stored his gear in his car as part of a winter survival kit, I do not recommend this.
I need a pillow otherwise I get a kink in my neck (side sleeper). Clothes end up with hard lumps that are uncomfortable. I just got a Klymit X to try out.
Mine is a ziploc freezer bag. Use a t-shirt to cover it.
Hello Dixie, thank you for sharing another very informative video. You always do a superb job in presenting the information. The information that you share in your videos is helping countless numbers of backpackers and potential backpackers in making their gear choices. Take care, be safe and have fun. 🤗
I swear by having a silk liner for my sleeping bag. I'm a warmer sleeper but on really cold tramps it is a life saver, it also helps keep your actual sleeping bag cleaner and is way easier to wash - because of the material it only takes a couple of hours max to dry! It adds a wee bit of weight but I think it's definitely worth it
I use a cheaper bag In a bivy cover.
Just got myself a liner too (coolmax adaptor), after 3 nights in it, I won't go back! Also might try different models in the future.
I absolutely hate silk liners and the best place for them are in the bin.
How about manufacturers making liners zip in? I am not a log ànd don't wish for my legs to be tied in a tangle. Best to use thermal clothes base layers and socks. Use wet wipes to wash feet if on the move
@@oddball7483 I agree about liners need zips (the old military ones have buttons), but they would then need flaps along the zip grooves to prevent your body rubbing along the cold zips; plus I have no doubt that fragile zips along the length of a thin liner would snag or break very quickly. I prefer to not use any liner at all, and simply sleep naked inside the bag, even during winter. With a duck/goose down bag, it is no problem to turn the sleeping bag inside out and hang it to air on sunny, or windy days.
When you dry a down sleeping bag (or jacket), just throw some tennis balls into the dryer with it. That'll fluff up the feathers. (disclaimer: I am not responsible for any damages, etc.)
Another way is to tumble dry the bag (low heat), then lay it out on a chaise lounge and beat it with a yardstick (flat side) 'till all the lumps are gone.
Golf balls don't work too well. Fyi
@@Herbie11 haha, thanks for the heads up ...
Another thing that Dixie didn't mention about fill power...
When it comes to down, the higher the fill power number, the higher the quality of the down plumes, and typically the lighter the item. Your lower level fill power (500-600) items will weigh more than higher level fill power (850+).
Also, the lower level fill power items will use duck down, and usually some feather content. The higher fill power items will almost always use goose down, and only down plumes - no feathers. Feathers don't insulate, down plumes do. Feathers are heavy, down plumes are not.
Not necessarily true about goose down being used for higher fill down. Some companies use duck down in the 800 range. Also the best down comes from a particular type of duck, eider I believe. But the principle about fill power is the same weight of down of two different fill powers will have different volumes. The down with the greater volume will be warmer with the same weight as the other.
@@rudysal1429 No, actually, in the industry, what is considered to be the "best" down, is large down plumes from a certain kind of GEESE in Europe.
Dan Also, feathers are pokey, pokey. Old military “down” sleeping bags are notorious for this.
Thanks for this video. I hope you don't mind me spotting an error in your description of 'Fill Power', Contrary to what is said at 6:00, 'Fill Power' is NOT a measure of the volume for the fill contained within a sleeping bag. Instead, fill power is a measure of volume offered PER UNIT WEIGHT of fill (e.g. 900 cubic inches per ounce of fill) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_power.
I'm sure you know this, but just missed stating that weight is part of the metric (in the denominator)
Great video and information! Personally as a rule of thumb, I always suggest getting a sleeping bag rated at least 10, but preferably 15-20 degrees colder than the coldest temp expected to be encountered. In my experience, most towns in the US are warmer than the surrounding area. There's also the issue of convection in a windy environment. Also, a lack of food will cause a person's metabolism to slow down reducing body heat. You can always open the bag up if it gets too warm. Not much you can do if you get too cold. As far as sleeping pads are concerned. Inflatable mattress have come down alot in the last few years and one can have a pretty good pad under $50. If you run a inflatable pad, shoe goo and clear gorilla tape is your friend. If you get a hole or tear, repair with a dab of shoe goo or strip of tape. You can make a lightweight protective under sheet for a inflatable pad out of tyvec, plastic sheeting, or tarp. Cut to size and put some double sided tape in the corners. Just some ideas and you all have a great time out there.
Also when buying a down sleeping bag (or down anything) be aware of where the down is coming from and that it is not from live plucking. The most common certificates used are the Global Traceable Down Standard (TDS) or Responsible Down Standard (RDS).
Those certificates make sure that the down is neither from force-fed animals who are only plucked as part of food production when they are already dead (and not plucked repeatedly while alive which is very painful).
Thank you for pointing this out, Eleonora! Responsibly-sourced down is very important for preventing the unnecessary suffering of birds. ☘️
I would never use down. As an experienced hiker of 40 years I can tell you that not only is down unreliable as an insulator, the RDS does not enforce its guidelines correctly and down is simply a cruel an unnecessary use of an animals life.
Regardless of your respect of nature's creatures, synthetic bags are by far more reliable in four season conditions and are now as light if not lighter than down, technology has evolved.
If you love nature, respect its inhabitants. You're one of them too.
Eleonora Kacl activist 🙄
@@nuovaman3118 if you bird are already dead for food, then you want to waste the rest of the bird? If the bird gave its life for us then shouldn't we use all we can instead of wasting it?
Yeah.......don’t care.
Love the braces Dixie!!! Thanks for the great info.
I always really enjoyed her smile, but it isn't about me.
I thought it looked like she got braces!
I spent my highest $$ on my sleeping bags after a few years. I have a fleet as I am 4 seasons in the Central Rockies of Wyoming, but every other year my slip off into CA UT NV in the winter. My go-to sleeping bag for most is a Western Mountaineering 15 deg (25 EN) , Alpinist, semi rectangular, that works in most conditions for me down to as advertised with a base layer and head cover, a shemagh or beanie. Three season I like a full length CCF pad,, a Zeelite Sol paired with a short Neo Air UL. Winter, I add a R 2.5-4.o inflatable full length pad instead of the shortie. I like internal frame packs, so the sculpted frame and padding do not make good lower insulation, and I like to hang my pack in bear country because it is stinky. One side of the CCF is always down. The sleeping side up. My winter bag is a 0 deg Marmot Lithium that has been slept in comfortably to -10 f without a liner or extra clothes. I now use a Reactor liner from Sea to Summit that has not been tested below 0 deg. Both of my down bags are premium, 800-900 fill and made in the USA. I take very good care of them; wear base layer sleep clothes, wipe and dry out every trip, and I am not a thru hiker. 30-45 bag nights a year, 1-7 day at a time. At the other end or extreme is my synthetic 40 deg Golite synthetic, hoodless that zips out flat like a quilt, that works beautifully in a quick and dirty summer bivy trip that may get wet. Also at 1.2 pounds, and it Is a day and half trip, a little short on sleep one night or comfort is not terminal. Double wall tent or UL bivy. My 50 something GF can use my cast off CCF Walmart eggcrate pad and my 90s Kelty 25 Lightyear bag and thinks she is in heaven. I am 66, and a side sleeper and would die. [grins]
I just use My wool blanket poncho liner an pad thanks Uncle Sam and the poncho is My tent works for Me
Marc Johnson I either take the full sleep system or a tarp with my pt pad and poncho liner.
I
I slept many nights with a poncho liner under a space blanket during my army days.
I've been camping for a long time now. You just taught me what the "fill number" means. Happy to keep learning. Thank you very much.
The Vapex Thank you for watching!
But that's not actually what it is! 900fp down will take 900 cuin of volume PER OUNCE of down. So if you want to compare loft, multiply fill power by weight of down.
Sleeping on the ground is the exception for me, so I don't have a lot of motivation to invest a lot of money in an expensive insulated pad. I have a Klymit Static V Luxe (I'm 6'2", which is about 2" longer than pretty much all regular length pads). That's my go-to inflatable most of the time if I have to tent camp. If I have to tent camp and it's going to get cold, I also have an old Thermarest Z Lite Sol closed cell foam pad. I simply stack them. Stacking them turns a 1.3 R-value pad (Static V) into a 3.9 R-value system. It's a little heavier than a more expensive insulated pad, but I don't do it that much so it doesn't make sense to drop $200 on a pad I only use maybe once or twice a year.
I never thought of stacking for colder nights. Thanks for the tip!
This is great! I learned so many new and beneficial details. Thank you 🙏. One quick question: any experience with sleeping bag liners? Especially the ones that claim to add several degrees to the warmth of a bag? Thanks!
Great video! Even though I know most of this... it is really a great thing you are doing with this series. Your experience and knowledge is much appreciated!
Do you plan to do a video about trip planning...how you plan for a trip, research, how you find trail shuttles, just general info or steps you take to plan any trip
When I toss and turn during my sleep I turn the entire sleeping bag with my body, works fine
I don't follow the modern obsession with ultra light gear. Comfort and warmth are vitally essential for good sleep, so carrying a little heavier and bulkier gear more often relates to better sleep and more enjoyable periods outdoors in extreme environments.
Once I've been so cold in my tent so I slept inside my sleeping bag with all my clothes on , with a hoodie on, and I even put my legs into my backpack. After this trip I've saved up money to buy a good sleeping bag.
paulisialinka I inadvertently field tested a homemade wool blanket/sleeping bag combo in the hill country outside of Bandara, Tx. The first night I woke up cold to find my dog curled up arctic fox style with her tail over her nose and non responsive at first (scary). The next night I rearranged my gear and we both slept like bugs in a rug. Both mornings we woke with frost outside, so the temp dropped below freezing both nights.
I love my hooded sleeping bag. I love to bury my face in the covers and cover my eyes. So I guess it makes sense lol 🤷🏼♀️
Quilt? I think you mean unzipped sleeping bag
Menopause keeps me hot and from sleeping EVER. LOL. Should be interesting on the JMT.
Outstanding overview. I use a top quilt for hammocks and ground sleeping.
Birds have been using down to keep warm for more than 70 million years. It's got to be good for something.
Yes but they also have other feathers that keeps the down from getting wet. And they still fly south for the winter.
Looove this timing, I'm literally in the middle of looking at sleeping bags/pads
The pads that have the blow up bag are great. I fill my pad with four squeezes, about 2 minutes max with little effort.
Rick Stone If you haven’t purchased yet, neoprene yoga mats work well to reflect heat back. If you can find one with a “breathable” cloth on one side, all the better. They are thinner than closed foam pads, but great in colder weather.
Analysis paralysis! Love that term. I’ve experienced that many times.
Dixie you are going to love a Quilt. I too toss and turn and sleep cold. I absolutely love my 15 degree 850 fill Quilt.
We have down mummies, and when we hammock camp, use an underquilt (short trips only, so far) and use the mummy like a quilt. It's nice to have the option of being surrounded by a bag, if I need it.
I have to ask. Why don't quilters just take an open top (no hood) sleeping bag, unzip it all the way, and then just drape it over themselves like a quilt? I have done this for years and and find it comfortable. You have the extra weight of the zipper, but also have the option of zipping it up as a bag if colder than expected weather hits.
These are great gear info insights, Dixie...! I have both and I've had my down bag for 30yrs maybe almost forty, and still very lofty. I'm not a hard core hiker though. I keep it stored in a large volumnous cotton sleeping bag storage bag.
Dixie, this is off-topic, but whilst doing dishes I thought of a thru-hike topic that I don't remember being covered yet by any vloggers. I see so many emotional good-bye to family moments by beginner thru-hikers, or videos of their work farewell parties. But with only a quarter of thru-hikers successfully completing their attempted hikes, it leaves me wondering if there's an awkward return-home moment for those hikers that leave trail a short while after they start..? Would you advise any would-be thru- hikers to try to minimize the great farewells, based on the unfortunate likelihood that many will return home sooner than expected? Thanks!
I've wondered about that! You've also made me think of another beginner backpacking topic - doing the dishes!
Has anyone actually used an air sack that works without spending lots of time running around looking like Link catching fairies in Legend of Zelda? I am the proud owner of one, and used it 1/2 a time and now I use it as a bag only.
Didn’t know about the front load washer and sleeping bags, good to know. Like your videos, keep it up and stay wild! Looking forward to watching CDT next.
I bought the Nemo Tensor that came with an inflation bag. It worked surprisingly well. It only takes about 2.5 bags to completely fill my pad. You just hold it about 1 ft away from your mouth and gently blow a puff of air. You don't put your face down in it.
Thanks Dixie, I agree with you. I have a feathered friends flicker 20 and also a north face Blue Kazoo 15 ( both plenty warm for me.) The quilt is less restrictive for sure because I side sleep and toss n turn but it is definitely more drafty in my opinion. And I use Exped sleep mats R 3.9 and higher. The exped Downmat is the warmest I’ve ever had. I think a high R value is super important for the best warm comfort. Keep up the awesome videos We really enjoy them 😃
Nothing about wool blankets...
I made the DIY Costco Quilt and Underquilt. 750 Duck down fill. I didn't do the foot box for the over quilt. I tend to be a "kicker" when I sleep and find a foot box annoying.
The DIY Costco Quilt is a cheap entry to using a quilt. The Quilt costs around $20. Simple sewing skills and there are a ton of patterns and videos out there. I've used my set up down to the low 30°s and was comfortable in thin long johns and a thin thermo shirt with a pair of wool socks, sleeping in a hammock.
Down sides of the Costco DIY- yes, it's 750 fill but not stuffed to actual capacity. They're a little skimpy on the fill. My next version, I'm definitely going to buy extra down to "bulk" up a bit. Especially for the UQ. The down settles to the lowest point in the middle through the he center. So, no CBS, but I have had issues with a cold draft around my neck and the top of my shoulders. More fill should solve that. 😀
One last point, it's way easier to cool off if you're too hot than it is to get warmer if you're cold. Especially if you're already asleep. I'd suggest going a little more to a colder rated bag or quilt. You can always kick it open or off. Rummaging for extra layers in the middle of the night is a pain.
Great video, Dixie!! Keep 'em coming!!!
That's the most comprehensive video I have ever seen on this! You obviously have experience! Thanks for sharing. I love my neoair but I'm tired of mummy bags so exploring options for the next season.
Binge-watch. Love your channel it has lots of substance 💯
quilt(made my own due to price of enlightened equipment) was a gamer changer for me, as well as the klymite v luxe due to the extra width, side sleeper. yet to find a perfect tent though.
Thank you soooo much for explaining this with knowledge and experience !!! I've hiked all over north Alabama while listing to your you tube channel. I always tell all my hiking friends to subscribe 👍👍 Thank you ma'am
When they make these ratings for the sleeping bag. What level of clothing do they assume the person is wearing?
In terms of insulation , can’t wait for the further development of milkweed fibres (Asclepiad) here in Quebec; 100% natural, hydrophobic, compressible and warmer than anything; super light, warm even when wet: it’s gonna be a revolution! It’s a weed that grows everywhere and helps the survival of the Monarch butterfly to top it off.
I sleep on a closed cell foam pad everyday. Not just backpacking lol.
My sleep system is pretty basic. I use the Thermarest NeoAir Trekker regular length, a Sierra Designs 20 degree down mummy bag and for a pillow I use the stuff sack the bag came stuffed with clothes. Dixie didn't mention it, but I've learned to not sleep in a down bag without some clothes on because of the moisture your body puts out and also the oils from your skin will affect the effectiveness of the bag.
Dixie, fantastic overview of sleepy gear. your overview is the very best out there. i have always hung my Serria Designs 10 degree down bags while storing them. they are now 35 yrs old and working fine minus the. stains a bumps and brushes plus maybe lost a little R value over the yrs. i washed my with wool lite and air dry outside in the sun, then fluff on low heat and they come out superb lofty with not clumping. hope this helps other maintain their down bags.
I’m so excited! I’m starting to plan my very first backpacking trip! Might be solo, my sis might go, but I’m def going regardless! I can’t take off work long enough to thru hike but I am gonna take a week off to hike the Great Smoky Mnts part of the AT, hopefully next fall! I’m researching, & purchasing gear a little at a time. Your channel has been so helpful to my sis & I! Neither of us have been backpacking before. Camping many times, & day hiking, but not backpacking. My down quilt just arrived in the mail today, & I’m so giddy b/c I’m that much closer to my goal!! I also bought the book “Wild, Lost & Found On The PCT”, & can’t wait to read it! Movie was great. ✌️♥️
Damn, quarantine is almost over, will i have time to watch all your videos? Slightly hooked on the channel. Great content! Greetings from Portugal.
To clarify what you said about down fill power, it is a measurement of the volume , in cubic inches, that 1 ounce of down, at the stated fill power rating, will occupy. For example, 1 ounce of 800 "fill power" down will occupy 800 cubic inches of space.
3:33 not higher weight to warmth ratio for down, but a higher warmth to weight ratio. Sorry to be that guy :( Great video - I learnt a few things!
"higher weight to warmth ratio"
hey wait a second...
LOL... I thought the same thing.
Shouldn't it be the other way around?
;-)
Thank you for all the advice you give in your videos. Very informative! I realized alot of items you choose while backpacking is personal and comes through "trial" and "error" and "live" and "learn" experience but you give alot of good advice.
This new series is SO informative! Thank you! Lots of info, but not overwhelming. You do a great job of explaining the pros and cons of everything.
I'm laughing so hard right now I'm going to the UK in the spring but was worried about the cold so bought a sleeping matt with an R rating of 4.4 because I didn't really understand how the system worked.... overkill much, at least I'll be right the next time I'm in -29 degree weather... cause that happens a lot
Summer Cook you should be fine with an r 2.5-3.0 pad for 32 Fahrenheit 😂😂
Thank you very much for your informative videos. I know take a lot of work and planning. You are very appreciated. I do have one question for you please that I did not see addressed in this video. What is your experience with sleeping bag liners. It is my understanding that a good liner will help keep your bag clean and possible add about 10 degrees of warmth. Thank you for your time.
You are the most straightforward backpacking UA-camr I’ve found. Thank you! Very helpful stuff for me to get on the trail!
Thank you so much! V helpful for someone who hasn’t been out there for 20 years pre-kids and looking to get back out again soon. Nice to know what is new since I last did this (quilts?!). Also love the advice from a fellow side sleeper.
Nice video and some good tips. But that ultralight backpacking/hiking stuff is very expensive.
Goose hood 65 dollars? I have a balaclava that cost me about 5 dollars.
I actually never did meet anybody that used the same sleeping bag (or any equipment for that matter) for 30 years. They could be out there but I did not meet them. There's always new models coming out and there's a fashion aspect also. My guess would be 3 years of use before being replaced is more likely.
When blowing air into a pad it's hot air (body temperature) that will cool down and shrink over night so be prepared to blow in some extra air during the night to keep it comfortable.
But a good video about some stuff you need to consider and investigate before buying indeed.
Now I live this videos I will backpacking end of month for first time 🙌🙌🙌🙌
2 points:
1. Getting a Z Seat would be a great way to keep yourself from sitting on the hard ground while carrying an inflatable pad. They weigh nothing, even for those of us who count grams.
2. "accordion style" closed cell foam pads (Thermarest Z Lite, etc.) can be folded in half and used to create structure for pack if you place it inside the pack and against your back. If you don't want to put it in your pack, you can strap it to the top.
A system that works well for me is a down based PHD sleep system.. A pair of down trousers, a half bag 165 grams which is a sleeping bag that comes up to my chest, plus the down jacket that I carry anyway. So only 165g for the bag, 140g for the trousers which are also handy for chilly evenings outside the tent etc. The PHD hooded winter jacket rated -5c is about 270g. But essentially, my sleep system minus pad weighs 305 grams. Of course with down gear, 'Maintenance' is important to to prevent damp build up ie air it at every opportunity. I've successfully used this in the Alps down to temperatures that cause frost on the inside of the tent.
Another thing to consider...
When using an inflatable pad that you blow up manually, the moisture in your breath will collect inside the pad. In testing it has been found that this moisture will freeze (in cold weather, obviously) and reduce the 'R' value of that pad. This is an issue you need to keep in mind when choosing your gear. Just like all gear choices, you need to consider weather conditions/temperature range before choosing.
(personally, I am slightly grossed out by the knowledge that the moisture build up is causing bacteria growth inside the pad)
@Garrick Cicero Interesting... but I wonder how "scientific" his examination was...??
@Garrick Cicero on that specific instance his had only the space blanket type insulation, most dont (they have primaloft or something like it) and WILL collect moisture. I cant count how many people have reported mold in even that model pad, let alone ones that have real insulation.
My system, for a 250 pound, semi-athletic sloth who prefers to sleep in a bedroom at 50° with a down blanket and light comforter all winter
EE 20° Quilt XL and Wide or Massdrop Pine 40° quilt
Klymit Static V Insulated Pad ($65 and 14 oz at R4.4)
Sea-to-Summit Areos Pillow, XL model
Wool beanie
I can't sleep without a pillow of some flavor
In the old days, one's pad was outside the bag / quilt, but now it seems that the pad goes inside one's bag quilt (11:00). I have also seen where the foot box is out of the pad, but the torso part of the pad is in the bag. Is that just something that one figures out on their own? I now always have the pad inside my bag or quilt because then I am trapped on the pad and never roll off. I have an EE Revelation quilt with the drawstring closure at the foot. If one moves legs or arms inside the quilt and expands the volume of the internal space, then air is sucked inside to fill the created vacuum. One must tighten the foot drawstrings around a sock or two in order to keep that hole from being the entrance for the cold air and close the hole, Otherwise, one is guaranteed cold feet.
Another amazing review. I have switched to down EE quilt and will never go back. I turn from side to side and having the freedom of a quilt is great and with the straps under my pad, no cold spots. I have backup down hood and booties, and of course a puffy, for temps below rating.
I use the REI Flash sleeping pad for a few reasons. I am a cold sleeper. I am a side sleeper and the Flash keeps me off the ground. I live and backpack exclusively in Alaska. It is not uncommon to camp on snow in July. If I am anywhere near glaciers and ice fields, the air is super cooled. I typically lay a sheet of Tyvek down with my sleeping pad on top to insulate me from the permafrost. I have a warmer sleeping bag that is rarely unzipped at night.
For the last 2 years I've been upgrading bit by bit my sleeping system and clothes since it is all rather expensive for a student. Just bought the Nemo tensor insulated and a Nemo Fillo Elite pillow to pair with my EE30° quilt. Might also buy next year a UGQ0°/-10° for the colder nights early spring/late autum in the alps.
Do you know if people use sleeping bag liners very much when thru hiking? To me it seems worth it because a silk one will add a nice layer of warmth for not too much weight, at it'll keep your bag from getting as dirty, but I don't generally hear people listing them as part of a sleep system.
Thank you for doing these intro videos! I'm starting an AT thru hike in april and love watching them. If you're still open to ideas, I'd love help with planning my beginning mileage and stops. I know when I get into a groove, I'll be able to figure out what I can and can't do each day, but for the first couple of weeks, is it best to have a (flexible) idea? One main thing about planning is: I just bought the pdf version of the 2019 awol northbound guide. I also downloaded their 12 miles/day planning guide. I know the planning guide was done in 2011, but the elevation gain and loss is drastically different than what's in the 2019 guide I just purchased. I can't imagine mountains would change that much. For example, for day 3 gooch mt shelter to woody gap, I only see max 1000 feet elevation gain and about 700 loss on the 2019 guide. But the 12 miles/day planning guide says there's 3429 elevation gain and 2629 loss. That's a huge difference. I am VERY new to this and have only done guided trips. So this is my first time planning myself and I'm now nervous I'm doing something wrong. Please can someone help me understand the large discrepancy between them and what I'm doing wrong. Thank you so much!
I have the NeoAir X Lite “WOMEN’S” inflatable sleeping pad - it’s slightly shorter than the regular but at 5ft 8 I just fit on it from head to toe. It’s warmer than the regular at an R value of 3.5 AND weights the same at 12oz so if you are a person of 5ft 8 or shorter you may as well buy the “Women’s” pad and get the warmer r value with no weight penalty!
very helpful thank you. Saw quilts in a through hike vid and didn't know what they were/what their advantage was. I've been out of the camping gear loop for so long now. 90% of my gear is still relevant though as I did research at the time 🏞
The camping shop dude told me you don't want to be blowing up your sleeping pad (mattress) by mouth as it puts moist air in there and you'll freeze. They sold me a little pump-up mattress with a built-in pump which is a bit of a pain to use but if you zen out while pumping it it's not a drama. The mattress works great for keeping your hip off the ground too btw.
Thanks! Very UN happy with the pad I had last summer. Needed a new alternative but didn't know which way to jump.
I have always used a foam pad, and I have slept really good. I tried once inflatable pad and I just couldn't sleep like at all, this video was so useful so a big thank you to you, love your videos
Awesome video, It's nice that you go in depth with different materials, ratings, and overall explanation what to look out for. I appreciate that you explain the small things that other people don't really go into. Really helps me narrow down my decision of what id like to use.
Two thumbs up I will watch it when I'm at home later young lady
I always thought a sleeping bag was a bag to compensate you for a lack of generating heat because you're sleeping instead of hiking.
You always bring clothing to compensate you for the coldest weather you expect to experience, if you wear that clothing when you're in your sleeping bag you should not need a -30 degree sleeping bag for freezing weather.
Sooooo. The husband and I want to start backpacking. We camp often and hike long miles on weekends and camping trips. But we always sleep in a single tent and we zip our sleepingbags together. What options are there (if any) for people who sleep together?
Used a combo down/wool bag. It had a army wool blanket liner. With outer nylon liner and ensolite pad the down bag with liner I slept in -30F temps with no problem except getting out of the bag, because nobody wanted to get up and start the fire.
I'm buying a pop up camper this week and am planning a 14 day trip in mid to late November on the Canadian border. The camper comes with a heated mattress but I don't know how warm that will get and I am always cold. Should I buy one of those sleeping pads that are rated 4 or above and put it on top of the heated mattress or would that not be effective? Are these pads meant only for tent camping? Would the warmth from the heated mattress heat the camping pad all the way through so that I feel it in my sleeping bag? Temps are supposed to be in the 20's but I want to be prepared for worst case. Note that I am always cold.
The main reason I bring the little fan/pump that came with my neoair is condensation from my breath. It'd be much more convenient to leave it at home, because of the weight and because it's my only non-rechargeable device so batteries are a pain. I know a lot of people say it doesn't matter but I've also heard of people ending up with moldy pads. I definitely wouldn't bring it on a thru-hike though since the weight matters a lot more and by the time it might get gross you've already got your money's worth.
You are doing amazing on these daily videos, super informative, easy to understand, and really well thought out. So cool to have seen how far you have come. HAPPY HIKING !!!!!!!!!!!!
Just a note for the people trying hammocks. You can use a pad and a sleeping bag to start if the cost of quilts is prohibitive. It’s not as comfortable or as light but it will get you through. Just know that at your shoulders you’ll need to add something (Reflectix?) to insulate if you come off the pad.
Your vids have improved greatly since your first ones. You've done well Grasshopper.
Thanks Dixie! I found a comfy synthetic rectangular sleeping bag (only 3.2lbs with stuff sack) I really like and haven't thought about switching. For just weekend camping/backpacking, if the temperatures are warm, the bag is swapped for a wool blanket. This makes the quilt option intriguing for me. While I was 100% satisfied with what I was doing, perhaps I can be even more satisfied. :)
100% agree with Dixie. I have slept on foam and inflatable. As someone who side sleeps a lot, inflatable is more than worth the price. You probably spend an extra 5 to minutes per day inflating and deflating it, but it is totally worth it.
HA! Pads... the devil in my pack. I use both a Thermo-rest (Cheapest one) and an inflatable (I'm on my billionth inflatable). I am a side sleeper and that combo helps with the grinding pain in my hip and shoulder were it not for the combo. The foam is a good backup when the inevitable deflating of the inflatable happens (One BILLION times so far it seems). When the inflatable fails, I supplement the high stress points with clothing. It works... meh, sort of good. Really it's no noticeable weight increase when carrying the two. I love your channel, you're gorgeous, be my wife, carry on. NOTE: I have had no more luck with the expensive inflatables than have with the cheap ones. (Just my personal experience) and I have spent HUNDREDS on the combined expensive ones. Self inflating ones are STRAIGHT GARBAGE. Just sayin'.
when using my NeoAir sleeping pad I use the NeoAir mini pump to keep the moisture from my breath getting into my pad
Dixie, don't do a sewn foot box and I'll tell you why. Drawstring or such foot boxes stay shut and don't let drafts in and you can always wear sock or down booties in them too but when not sleeping, such as sitting around outside, you can open the foot box and wrap the quilt around you and still be able to get up and walk around if needed too. Also, if it gets really nice you can open up the foot box and just drape the quilt over you too.
I have used a Thermarest Luxurylite cot (or camp bed) for my last two trips (Kililmanjaro and Land's End to John o'Groats (LEJOG). It's a bit heavy (3lb9oz) but, given that I' nearly 70, was a luxury I thought was worthwhile just so that I could get a good night's rest. And I did. It keeps you off the ground and is much more comfortable than an ordinary bed roll. However, on LEJOG when I was half way through I gave up the bed for a simple bed roll because of the weight. I didn't regret it.
Dixie can you reach out to the community and ask if anyone has tried the new Uberlite with the upgrade of the wing lock system?
Bought the first model back in February 2019 for my PCT hike and had to blow it up 3-4 throughout the night, first four nights. Sent it back to REI. Had to go back to the XThrem large very heavy. Now, they came out with the wing lock. Has anyone tried this new one out yet? Merry Christmas 🎄🎁 a big hugs 🤗 to you and your family.
Oh and loved seeing your mom out on trail with you & fancy. Lol 😆
As an old lady I always looking to drop weight.
If 3 pounds are the ideal weight for JUST a sleeping pad and sleeping bag... With a relatively cheap hammock setup (from "Hummingbird Hammocks") you can get away with only 3,358 pounds/1,523kg for your entire "shelter kit" with a 2 pound sleeping bag..! The zpacks duplex with a 3 pound "sleep system" is 4,21pounds/1,91kg - but this tent costs $600. You get the tarp, hammock, and mosqito net for $240 total (616g total, and VERY compact size).
I would not use a quilt, because then i need both over and under quilts, which takes more room and weighs more than 1 sleeping bag. I just cut a small slit in the bottom of the sleeping bag (and sow around the edges to seal it), just big enough that i can run the carabiner on my hammock through the hole. That way i can have the sleeping bag as a "pod" around my hammock so i dont lay down on the sleeping bag and compress it. Not ideal if you insist on sleeping diagonally, but i just tie the hammock up pretty tight, and then i can sleep very comfortably in a fetal position (mummy bags may not have the room for sleeping in fetal position).
This is actually so comfortable that i have bought a hammock-stand for my bedroom, and have been sleeping in my hammock for the last 5 months.
I have used a closed cell under a thin self inflating. My sleeping bag has a pouch that both slide into under the bag. The bag itself has no insulation on the bottom, only fabric, so some sort of pad is a necessity. This hybrid type of pad solution protects the air pad from the ground, and if the air pad does fail, I still have the closed cell under me.