Apple Doesn’t Care About “Gaming”
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- Опубліковано 18 кві 2024
- Thoughts on Apple and gaming with the M1 Pro / Max chips.
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It's sad but I don't think Apple will ever care about gaming. It doesn't matter how powerful their hardware gets.
Never say never, but in the closer future is a big no for gaming in macos
Damn am I lucky to have checked your channel precisely now
Sadly agreed Dave
Apple don't care about their customers, period.
I mean you could always play apple store games
As a game dev, the points you brought up are 100% aligns with what reality is. Great content you put out here.
Does that mean that if you have a Macbook, you essentially can't do Game Dev stuff on it ? Like, you absolutely need Windows/Linux laptop/PC or any other OS that's not macOS to do game development ?
@@Yazuroshi yes but not for the reason he said in the video for other reasons one is Unreal Engine and even Unity struggles and crashes in M1
they are not M1 ready yet also many side important tools I Don't see people speaking about pretty much running only on windows also community support it's important if you are asking this question means you are new I wouldn't recommend throwing yourself to a pace with 0 community and bugs just cuz f apple apple I love Linux but cuz of game dev I have to use windows it's what it's really
linux have a great support by community so it's float but in real world with big AAA compainese winowds is pretty much theonly thing you will see
@@ko-Daegu it is incredibly hard to read without punctuation it is just a flow of words you cannot really separate them while reading this makes it hard to get the context right i dont know why i even care please consider using punctuation for your own good
What laptop do you use as game dev Samuel?
What kind of games do you work on? Are you affiliated with any particular studios or are you. independent? What games have you worked on? I would love to check them out!
It's also important to keep in mind that the stereotypical "PC Gamer" wants to replace parts and upgrade his/her rig every so often. Apple is the anti hardware-enthusiast brand.
Actually most PC gamer never upgrade their own hardware.
Not really.
The "stereotypical pc gamer" you are referring to with "upgrade-able" rigs is only a small percentage of the demographics. Vast majority of gamers are either prebuilt, laptops or just your ordinary home computer where the best you can upgrade is memory and ram on the same mobo.
I also tend to agree and disagree on the part of being hardware enthusiastic. Most OEMs are on par with Apple on that.
@@hodb3906 true i mean when i bought my laptop there was nothing to tell me it had soldered ram. I cried out of frustration when i found out after 8 months. so apple aren't the only one.
@@Gurj101 I feel you. Same here bro, my ram is soldered but they did mention with mine that it was soldered. That is a real bummer that they didn't mention it for you. What are the clock speeds and how much gigs do you have?
In addition to your thoughts about the lack of financial interest, I suppose that Apple wants to keep its brand as a premium product for the middle and higher end classes, but not as a sophisticated, heavy and noisy product for gamers and geeks.
Your point Doesn’t make sense when they have a division called “Apple Arcade” which generates the MOST revenue from the Appstore. They make more than 50% from games alone.
They clearly know this which is why Apple Arcade was created. Thats where the money is. MacOS can run iOS Apps now so maybe eventually they will have AAA games compatible for both macOS and iOS.
@@powerhouse884 there's obviously a difference between mobile gaming and PC gaming. the audience are completely different.
@@powerhouse884apple arcade is mostly basic gaming for the general ppl
@@SouvikDas123 General people don’t pay subscription to play Games.
Apple uses the pro line as premium.
The M1 MacBook Air is a great product. Ok Money, High Power
Excellent analysis.
After years of waiting and hoping to see powerful mobile GPUs on MacBooks +AAA games on MacOS I decided last year to build a dedicated gaming rig which costed me less than a ssd+ram MacBook upgrade and it makes so much sense. I now have a MacBook Pro for work, and a cheap, upgradeable rig for games…wish I did that a long time ago.
The Mac Laptop + Custom Built PC desktop is the way to go for sure. Macs are absolutely killing it in the laptop space (especially considering the battery issues of Windows 11) and having access to both platforms for many different use cases is perfect.
This is the correct way to have a tech life
I use Linux, so my desktop, laptop and phone all run the same OS. I pity the people who have to pick-and-choose
@@dial2616 mans one of the 3 people using Ubuntu Touch
@@Zawadmunshi I wish, I'm just one of the few billion people running Android with the Linux kernel
The aesthetic of the underground lair coming along nicely 💯
I am the cool kid from Germany making videos for the USA and the rest of the world. I will make your day so don't say nay to me today, dear ty
@@AxxLAfriku u r not cool, u spammer kid
The color choice for every single item in the room is art ❤️
Well done
Came here to say the same :)
Even his shirt goes along with all of it
I was looking for this comment
I think the background is a render
@@rondovk nope, every item there is real.. you would know this too if you watch his previous videos
I think you have it spot on. Mobile gaming is too lucrative for it's unregulated gambling aspects to even bother with the actual art of a good game. And just like you said, they are already leaders in this, why even bother to spend the immense amount of resources to make AAA games a reality for a user base who only knows mobile trash.
Yes, even tho many hopes, apple dont give a damn about opinion sometimes just like their 'lighting' port because "eVEryOnE aLReaDy hAvE LIghTiNG, wHY nEed USB-C?"
they keep feeding the junkies their low quality garbage xD
Gaming operating profits 2018: Sony: 10.55 billion, Microsoft: 7.06 billion, Apple: 8.04 billion. And in a year Apple beat all those game companies combined with almost the same profits? LMAO
@@damaomiX Do you think anyone gives a crap about the profits of those corporations? I like games, GOOD games, most people do, once you experience a few good titles you can't go back to whatever trash IOS offers. Even the new mightbook might be good but the suggested titles are shit and not all good titles are optimized for M1. They might make money off ads and microtransactions and shit, but that's not important to the consumer. Actually, the consumer is more likely not to consume garbage if presented quality.
@@damaomiX the report was from 2019, not from 2018
I've always felt like Apple and Nintendo are such similar companies. Not exactly in the business model, but in the philosophy with which they carry out their things. I've always felt like they could do something together. But then I remember they never will, precisely because they're Apple and Nintendo.
They want you to be in their ecosystem.
I ain’t even gon lie I’ve always thought the same thing
@@jadorestewart1433 uP
I've always thought the same. I'd also lump Disney in there.
apple is way more competent than nintendo xd
Props to you for talking about this topic. It would’ve been awesome if we could game on a MacBook.
Of they could game id switch over in a heart beat
@@AkAbeeli really sad that the MacBook is this expensive and cannot run one decent game.
@@Mohamed-hv2zo “Cannot run one decent game” is a bit of an exaggeration. There are some great titles on Mac, but there aren’t enough of them.
The late 2019 MacBook pro is a surprisingly good gamer. yes it gets hot but it's powerful, and the screen & speakers are awesome. It's a shame that apple finally started putting GOOD GPUs in their laptops and then immediately bail on x86 so you can no longer run windows games
I am gaming on my 64GB M1 Max MacBook Pro. Not the primary use, but between CrossOver and Parallels Desktop, I have been enjoying a large number of titles. Once DirectX12 to Metal translation is done, even more will be able to be enjoyable.
Same for CAD. Although a lot of cad developers are releasing mac versions Of their software they are always far more buggy and less supported on mac compared to windows. Its probably do to difficulty porting and running on mac while not making enough to invest a lot of development time into it.
For some reason, graphics and video editing is a main focus for them, even though gaming and CAD are on similar level in terms of performance power for professionals.. I wonder why that is. Why that is what they choose to focus on for the professional user.
It depends. For example archiCAD is mainly macOS oriented and provides much better experience on that platform than on windows.
This is why I am subbed in this channel. His insights and knowledge about the tech world is just unparalleled. May it be the technical side or the business side, Dave is just phenomenal. He clearly knows what he says. Keep it up Dave. Eventually more people will sub on your channel. :)
When I want to catch up on laptops it's always D2D. Keep the cool vibe man. Love your stuff.
They either concede and add Vulkan support back in or they give devs an incentive to develop for Metal. There will never be a good gaming experience on Macs otherwise
Define “good”. feral interactive does decent work.
Engines like Unity already run fine with Metal. Its the extra costs of testing and support for such a small user base that is the main issue. Chicken and egg gaming edition.....
@@MichaelGGarry we all know AAA studios don't test squat they just push it out lol
@@christopherfortney2544 as a AAA developer, I can categorically say you have no idea what you are talking about.
They don't need to add Vulkan support - valve created MoltenVk for exactly that purpose. Metal is an exceptionally good API anyway.
Dave, your videos are always so insightful and exciting to watch
0:56 Agreed! Just look at their decisions. Deprecating OpenGL, not officially adopting or helping out with Vulkan (and no MolenVK doesn't count, just a wrapper for Metal calls). And even Metal itself, from I've heard, documentation is lacking in that area. Apple, at it's revenue, if it wanted, could have easily talk to both Valve and other devs to quickly port some 3A games, just to make a statement "Hey guys, expect from us gaming in the next years, this is just the begging" at any of their WWDDC, but nothing.
To argue otherwise just seems wishful thinking.
And don't even get started with that Apple Arcade stuff.
MacOS used to be great for gaming with Steam Proton, but they dropped the libraries required so Valve quit supporting Mac for it (and SteamVR)
You do realise that Apple tried to work with Khronos to make a new API, but because they were so slow they had to go it alone. That is why Metal was created. And it is why it was released a few years before Vulkan. And YES, MoltenVK does count because it works. I mean, you do realise that when a AAA developer makes a game targeting multiple rendering API's they... *SHOCK* write a wrapper to abstract DirectX, OpenGL and Vulkan calls right?
Metal is an excellent graphics API - it has a lot of love in the industry because it's pretty easy to use and you can do great things with it. Metal is not the blocker here - nor is deprecating OpenGL - (which they actually updated recently to 4.1 surprisingly). The games I've worked on recently only support DirectX 12 and Vulkan. It's not Metal - The main issue is the number of units in the wild with decent hardware.
Just wait until MS really starts pushing ARM based windows - they will be porting games to Apple like crazy because the barrier to entry will be low enough to justify the lower sales.
@@zoeherriot I was hoping someone like you would write 😂
Thanks man, appreciate it! Really!
P.S. Would you be interested in helping me write an IRC Client for macOS in Swift wit SwiftUI? I have a Github repo
@@danstoian7721 :) heh. I am slammed at work at the moment - game dev is fun, but the "rumors" of crunch are... true. lol.
Years ago, I really wanted Apple to get more into gaming as iMac / MBP were my only machines. In seriousness, all they needed was to offer a good enough GPU back then, with cooling system to match. Now they have that... but since it's not an intel machine anymore, they need all that software as well now. No more "I can just play that in Bootcamp"-mentality. So now they really would need to support it on a Software / OS level. But since then I have gotten into SFF machines for media / entertainment / gaming, which means my Mac is now exclusively for work. I guess I also just lost the confidence they would ever properly support it.
But if Microsoft allowed Apple to add Windows on ARM to bootcamp, and it's emulation ability get's better, you could install Windows 10 on ARM and then run these AAA Games.
Assuming this version of Windows is able to use Apple's Rosetta technology (highly unlikely). The M1 Max MBP 16" would deliver comparable gaming performance to a mid-tier gaming laptop using less than half the power.
That’s kinda their angle, and how they get away with their prices: their computers are business expenses, for professionals & students, and their non-working families at home. So you pay $3500 for the computer for work, get the fam a couple of iPads, plus cases and Apple Pencils, for another $1800, oh and don’t forget the Apple TV + Remote for another (I don’t even know how much it is) $1000. From your $3500 work computer you make your money, and it made your work easier so it’s fair what they charged; and now also your fam is spending the money you made on the iTunes & App Stores.
Edit: see the private sector also understands sustainability, so well they caused the climate situation so they could sell us the solutions.
@@TheStopwatchGod Now why would Microsoft do that UNLESS there is enough money in arm to properly optimize the os for it. They have an arm build for their pro x device, but don't put enough resources towards it purely because of the terrible market share. Now if the marketshare for arm devices increases then naturally windows on arm will have the necessary support. BUT the thing is that will only happen when arm makes way into dell, hp, asus etc... laptops and of course then the windows laptops will have caught upto and probably surpass Apple in performance once again and boom now there's no reason to bring gaming to Apple silicon.
@@TheStopwatchGod Because there doesn't even exist any Windows that takes advantage of this hardware, not any ARM CPU and especially not the M1 GPU, I don't think that would ever work out. Before it used same hardware as was available on Windows so it was no problem to get 100% same performance under Windows. This really is a software issue now, that I don't think either company is bothering to invest in anytime soon.
Yup. I have a Macbook but opted to just build an ITX machine just for gaming. My last straw was when they decimated their gaming library when they moved from Mojave to Catalina.
Feel like also companies don't care about users with Mac, all my setup is based on gaming products like razer, logitech, most of their software which is pretty much essential don't work on Mac. I have recently bought an M1 Apple Sillicon and I can't have a nice experience with my current setup
Apple is a closed ecosystem.
@@moisesrosado4023 He is saying that razer and logitech devices don't support macOS software wise. It is not because Apple is a closed ecosystem, you can install applications and programs on a mac...
@@megaminx96 I thought that was due to the fact that apple would rather have you to buy their hardware accessories rather than 3rd party accessories.
@@ender0998 It's not about Apple, I bought a wireless mouse from Xiaomi for a couple bucks which was designed to work on Macbooks and it works fine on both of them, the i9 and the M1
Most big companies don't care about users they only care about users if they are losing money
Bro I love your videos man they’re so informative and short
Hey Dave, great analysis again. But I have to add a thought there: Since there are gaming capable devices from apple now and there is a shift towards ARM hardware anyways, Apple is in a position to make a push and create great developer tools to make high end gaming on MacOS a thing. Also I think there is a hugh opportunity now to get completly new customers due to the ability to have a working as well as gaming capable machine which is also highly mobile/compact. There are many movements in the gaming and desktop community that would lead to a device such as the new macbook pros (I am thinking about SF builds for example). However apple is not seeing that since as the title says they dont care about gaming. In addition I am crying over the ongoing development of console first development and the mikrotransaction-based money making system of main-stream games. Which despite more money for the developers are not reflected in the quality of the games that are released. I rather think there is an opposite trend.
I remember “Infinity Blade” with every new iPhone launch,it was integral part to show how good it was on their platform. I hope they do the same for their laptops, then they might attract devs and gamers on it.
Correction: "Infinity Blade" not "Infinity Sword"
Also the lore of the game was short but was so good.
Infinity blade
It was called Infinity Blade.
I miss Infinity Blade.
And now because it was from Epic Games, you can’t download it anymore because of the lawsuit between them.
What was infinity blade?
"No, I don't thinks that's ever gonna be the thing"
That was the saddest sentence I've ever heard from Dave in this channel
Truth hurts.
Life’s full of disappointments
I know some people who have avoided buying a Mac just because the game options are very limited despite they are in the Apple ecosystem. One of my friends have a windows pc just for gaming, and she prefers her Macbook for everything else. A lot of people are installing windows as a secondary os on their intel Macs just for games. I guess it would bring in a lot of new Mac purchases for Apple if they decided to make gaming possible natively.
but it won't happen since the chips they have in there computers are not made for gaming at all and that they don't have the graphics cards in the either.
Your perspective is spot on. I don’t spend time thinking about these things; it’s nice to hear you articulate it well while being succinct.
Apple Arcade exists and let me tell you it looks like their vision for "gaming" on their platform is completely disconnected with the reality of what interests the consumers, unfortunately.
Would call out the biases in your statement though, Apple Arcade and the app ecosystem Apple has built is making buck, which is the determinant for Apple, so for them, they can see consumers spending a lot of money, more money than on the Xbox and PS platforms and they're probably thinking the same thing as you, that their vision is working.
If the "consumer" is voting with their money, Apple is clearly catering to those consumers' interests. Those consumers just don't include AAA gamers like you and me.
@@hentendou Exactly. They make more money just from casual gaming than Microsoft & Nintendo
@@hentendou Exactly. For an Apple consumer paying too much is what they want.
As others have said, it depends on which group of consumers you're talking about. Not all gamers are AAA gamers, there's literally an entire other market that vastly outspends the AAA market. Step down from your gamer high horse.
I was thinking about the same idea few days ago and finally dave spoke up… 😃
I think it makes financial sense for apple to do it as they’ll sell a lot more hardware by bringing in gamers to buy apple macs for gaming - only if they prove that the performance is markedly better than in windows and that there are gonna be good games on the platform by possibly getting a deal with ubisoft etc.
So refreshing to see a UA-camr who doesn't stall until the ten minute mark. Excellent and focused quality!
I don’t know why watching dave’s videos brings such a peaceful vibe! Love it man ❤️
For Apple to make MacOS an appealing gaming platform they would have to give up their obsessive, neurotic and controlling hold over their devices and users.
Agree with you 100%, they would definitely restrict the more gore-type games from ever going up on the MacStore. I would rather Apple never enter the high-end gaming world. Cause if they do, they will increase the price of entry to the market by a lot of margin (and the entire industry will just follow) which will make gaming inaccessible to a lot of people.
As this point, it is just stereotype against Apple. MacOS is quiet open; there are no software or hardware restrictions on your playing games or tweaking the system to your liking; it is totally unlike iOS, which is a truly closed down system (ironically, consoles and mobile phones, all very restrictive in hardware and software, make up the bulk of gaming platforms and profits). The thing is still that there aren’t enough Macs, and that most Mac users don’t care about gaming on Macs anyways.
Users ALSO have to stop excusing and defending Apple and be willing to criticize the corporation instead of being fanboys.
Push for better, otherwise Apple will not bother to do better.
Don't fall for the "privacy and innovations" crap from Apple when talks of the monopolistic App store comes up on iOS and users able to ''sideload' which to laptop and desktop is called downloading.
@@itsacookie1 Stop being an Apple apologist.
The purpose of sideloading is to give control to users allowing them to download outside of the monopoly App store.
Mac users can download from other App stores or not even use an App.
Apple runs a monopoly with one App store and restricts users freedom and choice to purchase and download from elsewhere.
@@itsacookie1 even if every mac user is a gamer they are so tiny and insignificant worldwide .
"Wrong, this is what leads to innovations like the M1. " how exactly ??
i really think Apple purely focuses on making computers that only reviewers and content producers love. As its what gets the "hype," All you ever see online is how quick Photoshop is or how quickly a video renders ( or whatever the terms are). it applies to like 0.00001% of users, but gets like 99% of the attention.
Well…they are called MacBook Pro’s for a reason, they really are for professionals that can utilise them. I’m also pretty sure apple knows the majority of their user base aren’t into PC gaming anyway.
@@asuprem3307 there are professionals in more than just content..
@@stevebren88 that’s the professionals who they usually cater for, look at all their first party professionals apps on Mac like, Final cut, Motion, or even MainStage it’s all to do with content, pretty much all artists (regardless of genre) use a Mac, many film makers use Mac also. Who do you think their £5000 Pro Motion XDR Display is targeted for….
@@asuprem3307 that was exactly my point. There are a million professionals out there and 1000s of ways to optimize computers. Apples focuses on media producers, even though they are like 0.0001% of the workforce and they want to sell to over 50% of people, because they know the people who make reviews and create hype are media producers..
@@stevebren88 No, because your making seem as if it’s a deliberate marketing tactic, apple for the most part has catered to content years before any video or online reviewers had any influence on consumers. It was the iPod that built the foundation of apples success along with iTunes both of which are to do with “content”
Apple for the most part are just sticking to what they know which is content which they have been doing since the early 2000s
With the performance shift of the M1 chip in the laptops as well as the iPads I think it's only a matter of time before they start to really push what is possible on their hardware.
Gaming oriented Apple TV with M1 would be pretty sweet IMO.
Gr8 analysis Dave. I particularly remember what Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation) said about the direction in which games are going in now-a-days, it's the casual stuff or in another words, they try to appeal to the maximum audience possible (maximum profit). That's why you see now-a-days that most games aren't really challenging or not that groundbreaking. I think he said this while covering Alyx and talking about the future of VR. Why he thought VR is never going to get mainstream. The same thing here, why would Apple bother with hardcore gamers when they are making truckloads of money with casual dumb stuff...
AAA may be going that route, but it just leaves tons of room for smaller indie devs to make those less "casual" titles.
@@MichaelGGarry I think that's the OP's point here. Those games aren't going away and there will always be certain titles and DEVs that deliver, but the mainstream focus is appealing to as many people as possible to milk as much money as possible for as long as possible and this is done through casual and addicting games. Apple already has this downpact on mobile and apple arcade. Why would they (one of the most profit oriented companies I've ever seen) go the extra mile to appeal to smaller niche audiences?
Sharp analysis, great work Dave!
You’re my new favourite tech UA-camr because you just make so much sense when you say stuff… you know your stuff well ;)
your videos are so refreshing and insightful
Bro the drip is immaculate
What does that even mean?
@@vladcocis it’s like when a thermometer becomes sober
@@vladcocis It’s baboon for “clothes” I think.
If I saw you irl I will REDACTED you
What does drip mean?
Agreed on that last part, I feel they'll most likely push for AR/VR/Metaverse gaming. Speaking of that, do you plan on doing a video on your thoughts about the metaverse?
Excellent content as always. Thanks Dave
I love how the whole setup including your shirt has this cyan, black, and white color consistency
My first "3A" gaming experience on a Mac was playing Assassin's Creed 2 on a 2013-early MacBook Pro with integrated graphics. I was on a plane from Moscow to London. The framerate was horrendous but I could not care less. Good times haha.
Always putting out the best tech AND business stuffs, my boi Dave has such a unique business point of view that no other tech UA-camrs have.
Yesss I'm glad you spoke on this topic! I recently bought the M1 14 inch mac for various reasons after heavily weighing my pros and cons, and the saddest thing for me to give up was gaming :,). But it is what it is, I just hope genshin comes to mac much sooner rather than later, even if it may take a few years. regrettably, I just can't find myself going back to windows machines after this T-T
hm you can download iOS apps on newer MacOS versions, right?
Tech can be wisdomous .. but only by Dave ..love your content man. 👌
1:56 actually, Nintendo never sells hardware at loss. But your bigger point is correct😁 just wanted to mention this
Which is why their devices are always waaaaay les powerful than even last gen consoles.
Yeah, like the Apple wheels.......
@@liggerstuxin1 Nintendo games are optimised to run on their hardware.
@@alanmay7929 but not for the rest of the industry
@Chandler Russell Not only that but Apple clearly has gotten into caring about services more than just expecting money from hardware. We see it with Apple TV, Apple pay cards etc etc.
I’ve thought about the idea of the M1 max in an Apple TV. It’s what I think apple should do, and then see if the software comes in apple’s direction to support it. Dave’s point about cost is an interesting one. Only recently have apple produced chips that are capable of matching high end gaming machines, and no doubt they spent a lot of money from an R & D perspective to get there. However, these costs will go down, the cost of M1 will go down. It’s not as if apple put their latest chip in the latest Apple TV. M1 pro or max could arrive in Apple TV in a year or two, and then Apple TV could be sold at much more reasonable price compared to what you’d expect if one was released now
You can't touch the M1 max and pro for less than $2499. Even without the fancy laptop display and chassis, an apple TV like device with M1 Max would be $500 or more. Maybe in like 4 to 5 years it could be possible. Though Apple would never risk cannibalizing sales of expensive devices like MacBook Pros. It's the reason ipads are so limited by software. They could run full MacOS, but Apple wants you to own an iPad and a MacBook. So they gimp the iPad. If anything I could imagine Apple would push game streaming via a cheaper Apple TV and a subscription model
@@ericwright8592 in the uk. The new generation of consoles £450, so a $500 Apple TV doesn’t sound too out of place from a price point of view. Would the gaming market go for it is another question mind. Considering the limitations of tvOS, would it really cannibalise the MacBook market? Even when the Mac mini was at a much more reasonable price, not that many people choose to plug in one of those in and use that instead of an Apple TV. Remember you still can plug in your MacBook into your tv and use it as a gaming machine for your living room if you so desire. But if apple brought these chips into Apple TV, then they could sell you yet another device. Even game streaming would be even tougher, stadia doesn’t exactly have a great reputation. Xcloud is dependent on having a games pass ultimate subscription (which is a massive library and has software exclusives), and Nvidia is tapping into the steam and epic pc gaming market. Amazon have announced Luna and then that’s seemed to have vanished into thin air
FINALLY THE REVIEW I WANTED !!! ❤️
They could add Vulcan support in their Air line-up since that's the consumer-grade stuff. If the M2 is a decent bump up in terms of GPU count, and the Air will have a 120+ Hz screen, it could easily be suitable for gaming.
Delusional to think apple can just enter and dominate AAA gaming, this is exactly the thought process people had back when the MS launched the original xbox and sony absolutley crushed them with the ps2, it really doesn't work like that in the AAA market just because you have money and better hardware.
It took a massive sony fuck up with the ps3 for xbox to become a relevant player with the 360.
what made the ps3 a fuckup?
@@mngyuan The Cell architecture made the PS3 hard for develop for. It was a very expensive console at launch and for few years, and didn't had many good games to attract players.
This all changed when when Sony released the PS3 Slim for much less and started investing in good first party games. Meanwhile, Microsoft stopped trying and satured the Xbox 360 with the same kind of games and later burned everything on the Kinect, alienating they own customer base - who migrated to Sony.
It is the classic tale of Games>Power. History shows every company that relied entirely on the power or technology for their console lost everything to cheaper, weaker systems, because of the lack of good exclusive games: Atari Jaguar, Sega Saturn, 3DO, PS3 (for a while), Xbox One, PS Vita, Google Stadia.
Xbox 360 is the one that fucked up. The red ring is notorious
And MS fucked up with xbox one again after that (at least initially). The only thing that saved xbox was halo and game pass.
@@mngyuan I remember the included blue-ray player added to the cost of the PS3 compared to the XBOX360 which only had DVD. However, as Blue-ray came down in cost over the years, the price difference did become less.
Pretty true to your color theme in this video, everything spot on. Whites, turquoises, black and greys!
Everything about this dude is just chill. Good content man
Dave's videos are always so concise. Not a second feels wasted.
If they integrated the app store to mac os it would be great for them just genshin impact alon could be played a ton on macs
Right now a group of developers are making a linux ditribution (Asahi linux) that can use the full native performance of M1 and M1 max. This would be game changing because products like the steam deck can bring life in this community instead of playing through virtualization like parallels and crossover .
Yeah but for average user it’s a lot of hassle not only that, sometimes you need to go through a lot to run games on specific games, it’s just not fun overall experience.
except steam is making its own independent distro
This guy knows how to go straight to the point, subscribed!!
I requested such video, I have been heard ! Thx you Dave for this great recap, it is sad but it is what is, for now !
I've been playing FF14 on a MacbookAir M1 for the last month and it run quite well (I only drop frames from 60fps when I'm in a populated city area). For the research I've been doing there are things like CrossOver to help you play a decent amount of games. I don't really see the problem, unless you need ultra graphics, 4K res and 120fps mini, which in this case you know what to buy.
If I'm going to be honest I would have thought there was a bigger user base on macos these days. I've been quite allergic to apple product due to their costs, but I got seduced by M1 when I needed a new computer, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
There is a lot of mac os users but not a lot of them are using them for gaming. The new m1 pro and max are pretty much being used by content developers mostly.
There is twice the mac users today than there was 5 years ago just by market share. Still think it is odd blizzard was the first to really build WoW on arm. As for FF14 itll never get native support
Cloud gaming / cloud streaming is currently the only realistic scenario where you'll see Apple maybe support high end gaming
Another fantastic video! Thanks
Dave, what id like to know is will you be getting rid of all your PC stuff for content creation now that youre flexing an M1 Max? (and now we've got the PS5/Xbox, does that also make PC's defunct in the near future for gaming too? - PCVR seems to be the only space safe from conosle/mac dominance)
I'd love them to collaborate with Nintendo. Nintendo has always been exclusive and since Windows supports Xbox and PS Now. It could be interesting for Apple to help support that Nintendo space. Nintendo would help with the playfulness and innovation, with ideas like the Switch or 3DS. Apple helps with key branding and product quality.
Now that gaming consoles run on x86 architecture, developers aren't going to make a game to fit ARM just for Apple which, don't forget, has a really tiny share of the overall computer market.
If gaming consoles and windows go towards ARM architecture, then maybe.
A really tiny share of the overall computer market, so far.
ARM most likely the next gen of architecture
x86 eventually is gonna be phased out
You mentioned things like Genshin Impact for iPadOS. How do these types of games run on macOS via the iOS/iPadOS compatibility feature? I'm sure they're good performance-wise, but is the UI and bindings for keyboard/mouse/controller usable?
wow, excellent analysis.I didn't even think about half this stuff
I think if you enabled gaming on macs then their sales would go up. The pro chip is similar price to razor laptops and it would make sense at that point for those looking for a gaming laptop.
I doubt they ever are going to care about gaming either
Why would they care about traditional PC gaming when a single mobile title produces a much profits as many of those games together.
I agree with you, I see apple moving more towards AR rather than supporting AAA games. I'm looking forward to Apple Glasses and the opportunities it will open, not only for gaming but for other industries.
something that’s on my mind, when the day that games get ported to work on windows on arm. can’t apple (or individual company or whatever) partner with steam, or crossover or something in the future to have that like proton layer so that developers don’t have to directly port the game to mac but just have game developers better support that layer? like (idk if metal API and Proton are the same thing since one is low level and other is high level) rossetta is already doing a fairly good job with alot of the things but idk just having some kind of the same support like linux gets for gaming would be nice.
I'd like to point out that the upgrade from M1 Pro to M1 Max **alone** on top of a $2500 machine is more than the Nintendo Switch and almost as much as a PS5 or Xbox. You basically need the M1 Max to compete with modern gaming hardware. So yes, nice hardware. But not something that would ever reach the vast majority of people it's just way too cost prohibitive. Apple has been making it increasingly harder and harder to develop AAA games for MacOS that's why no one does it anymore.
Would love to see it as you mentioned, but there is absolutely no way they are going to take a loss on hardware to sell software. They also show zero interest in recruiting devs and making it easier to develop for macOS.
Yep. Porting any software to MacOS is a pain in the ass, if my boss came to me saying he wanted a game running on the platform I'd be tendering my resignation right there.
Don't every COMPARE A COMPUTER TO A CONSOLE.
Why You CAN'T Compare PC Hardware to Console Hardware - Byte Size Tech
ua-cam.com/video/4z9bm81uuhg/v-deo.html
A console is not a PC the hardware is set up different
@@evacody1249 The hardware is perfectly compatible. You don't have to be a developer to see this, excess PS5 boards were sold as budget PCs a while ago.
Actually the base model 16" for 2499 is easily capable of hanging with my zephyrus g15 3070 in games that take advantage of metal. In fact it does quite a bit better than the 3070 for the couple games I was able to compare. The price difference is justified if you take into account the screen, battery life, speaker quality, trackpad and keyboard, silence. It wont replace my gaming laptop because there are very few games available. But I wouldnt daily my zephyrus either, its not a great user experience due to all those things that I mentioned earlier.
@@rtsstream exactly
I've tried Google Stadia, Xbox Cloud Gaming and today I tried GeForce NOW on my Macbook. Can I just say that GeForce NOW is the future of gaming on Mac? It's crazy! The other services has major latency and simply does not work well enough. GeForce NOW on the other hand is amazing! Even first person shooters has no noticeable lag - how is that even possible?I only played 1920x1200@60fps, but I'm now signed up for 2560x1600@120fps and hope to get added soon. With game streaming becoming this good there's just no need for Apple to do anything. Fun fact: it means zero fan noise, less battery consumption and better performance.
Geforce Now also now has RTX3070 support. I used to have a gaming PC and honestly prefer the experience of gaming on a Mac via Geforce Now, for many reasons:
1. No need to download games
2. No need to install games
3. No need to update games.
4. No heat generated when gaming.
5. No noise from the fans spinning when gaming.
6. No HDD space required for gaming.
7. Saved games on the cloud.
8. Can play on virtually all devices, not just one PC at home.
9. Etc. I could go on and on. It's not perfect, but it's very impressive, and will only get better with time.
Too bad some areas are stuck with rural, awful internet. Damn greedy ISP's.
I've played Cyberpunk on an iMac 5K and I agree with you, Geforce now is clearly the way for Apple to enter gaming without the hassle of developping something new. The only issue I see is the fact that Geforce Now is not for everyone. You must have a really good internet connection to make it work if you want to have a good experience with it.
for me Stadia is the future of gaming. Geforce Now has too much input lag (and don´t even talk about xcloud), and Geforce Now is just a mess and harder to use, it ask you to sign in to GoG or Ubisoft account even if you click on remember device. There are times that it starts the Game launcher like Steam instead of launching the game. There are even times that it download the game on their servers instead of just instantly starting the game.
The setups are very inconsistent, there are times that lets say you get a RTX 3060, but if you close the game and open it you get a worse Rig.
Also, there is a queue, and when a popular game releases, even people who pay to not have queues end up having queues, and there is also a time limit that you can play a game straight.
(I still haven´t try the new 3080 rigs, I just have used the free edition and the paid edition, I´ĺl try the 3080 edition to see if my opinion and experience change, I love playing at 120fps lol).
@@radroroscam3770 lol nah
Good to see your aquarium evolve... Need a dedicated video for that🥺
man your content is fire and its so simple
Sucks that we'll probably never see the day where you can buy a Mac for amazing productivity and gaming performance
I’d like to see more demanding games in Apple Arcade for the M1 chips and further
I believe the issue there lies with Apple - they insist that any game in Arcade works across their whole family of devices - iPhone, iPad, TV and Mac. I haven't heard of them allowing a game that only focuses on one.
@@MichaelGGarry - that's not an issue. That's sensible - we all want a$2000 iPad Pro but the reality is the huge market owns your humble iPad. If you made the game iPad Pro only then where's the revenue for the developers or for Apple?
@@fablewalls That's not the thing being discussed. We were talking about M1 chips in the Macs, not the iPad Pro and how Apple can compete in the "AAA and similar" markets.
@@MichaelGGarry my bad. Apple still only sells a tiny number of desktops compared to tablets and phones and that’s where the gaming money is.
@@fablewalls True, but Apple are the 4th largest brand in laptops and desktops per units shipped in 2020, with a growing market share. The gaming hardware market can be very profitable even with lower sales volume - see Razer and Alienware for examples.
Great content as always👍
Small correction: TFLOPS not TFLOPs. The S here stands for seconds, not plural.
I bought my first Apple product in a loooong time (iPad pro) mostly to play my favorite game (MTG Arena) wherever I want to. It runs smoother then it does on my MSI gaming laptop. The hardware (especially the display) is impressive, though sure, it's not cheap for a tablet.
Was it worth it though? Also what are the specs compared to your msi
@@zzey I love it! It's my first tablet so I can't really compare to others but it's very responsive and I love the screen. I actually bought it after watching Dave's review, I can totally recommend watching it ;-)
I have my laptop for 2 years now, so it's not the latest, it has an i7 7th gen, GTX1050, SSD and 32GB memory.
It would not be hard for Apple to allow developers to use standard API's like Direct X or Vulkan, or even bring back 32-bit support for games. (64-bit games is insane overkill - VERY rare edge cases for 64-bit, other than that the amount of precision is a waste of resources)
32-bit support would be nigh-impossible on Apple Silicon. Emulating 32-bit libraries with ARM-V8 is excruciatingly slow, and even *slower* if they had to do it through Rosetta for x86 emulation (which they would). Porting DirectX would be possible due to licensing reasons, but Vulkan seems within reach.
Great to see some sense brought into the conversation. As a long time lurker in the r/Macgaming subreddit, it's so annoying every new gen or model comes with a wave of people bitching Y NO GAMEZ not realizing their $4000 laptops are as powerful as they are rare. Tbh, I couldn't be happier with Geforce Now and Game Pass. I play everything I want on my Intel 16in MBP.
It has way less games than MacOS Mojave did
I was just thinking how I was trying to get my kids, 7 and 10 to play some Nintendo Switch games with me, but they turned to their iPads to play Minecraft, Roblox, and what other games they seem to prefer. And I too find myself playing Dead Cells, SotN, SIMS, etc on my iPad more than I do my consoles. It’s just so easy to pick up and start playing, we even started to download some of the Arcade games to try out for this holiday week. Wish they did more with the Apple TV, but for ‘casual’ gaming, the iPads seem to initiate more ‘family’ discussions on what and how they play, and they seem to want to play what I’m playing too.
Love the shirt Dave is wearing. Anyone have a link to it?
Thanks
If MacOS can be a direct competition with Windows, as in, anyone can install them on their PCs with all the available hardware, that would be a good start.
Nope, never gonna happen. They nearly bankrupted the company doing exactly that in the 90s.
Apple is more likely to spend millions on gaming studios and do a huge investment to make developers create games for their platforms than making Mac OS platform-agnostic. Since they're not likely even going to do the former, the latter is just out of the question.
This is a really bad idea considering how much resources they invested into Metal
@@acdi33 looks like trauma. Still, I hope they reconsider it seeing that they are not what they used to be
It'll never happen. Apple's revenue streams come from hardware, not software. The only reason you buy overpriced hardware is for the software. Like the others have said, quickest way to bankruptcy
So clearly captured. There’s “gaming” and there’s “Gaming”! Apple is the King of a specific gaming segment, just not the one everyone seems to talk about when the topic of gaming comes up. I easily buy games for my phone and iPad that look interesting in the App Store. I keep about 5-6 on my phone but I have no idea how many I’ve uploaded to the cloud.
"Gaming" lol.
There was a time Apple dipped their fingers into gaming on their computers. One of my older MacBook Pros has an nvidia chip in it and it played Blizzard games pretty well. I remember the WWDC event where they showed off Diablo 3 on those MacBooks running on nvidia.
Dave, I gotta say, the aesthetics in this vid are on point!
Well Dave I just wanted to mention how Apple has been slowly migrating iphone apps to a more "universal" app design. Thanks to the M1 transition they seem to have been investing more time with iphone apps running on macs.
I havent tried it yet but I wanted to try genshin on the mac, I guess I found somethin to do today lol
Hey, can you let me know how it performed after you test it out?
U cant run genshin on mac
I think if Apple pushed for gaming on Macs and did it well, they could take away a big incentive for buying Windows computers. My M1 is basically better in every aspect compared to my gaming Windows desktop, but I still use that one more since I can play games on it.
There is probably an army of people sharing your sentiment
I don't think so. Your M1 Macbook doesn't do better than Windows PC. Each has use to each of its own.
@@dhanarputra555 M1 knocks the windows pc out the water in so many tests
Buying a windows computer for 2000 dollars will.definitely be more powerful than the mac
My 3070 ti and i7-12650H kills any Mac book, Mac books will never be for gaming or be any good at it.
I still rember when I got my first macbook .They said "Hope this mac become you best work partner" in the document.
Amazing vid, amazing quality
If M1 and whatever comes next continues to have affordable and decent performance options maybe in a few years when most users are no longer on intel Mac's Apple can convince some AAA devs to bother to port or add support.
can totally imagine valve somehow making a conversion software like proton for the steam deck (and Linux) but for mac instead. it would basically just get games to work on Macos and maybe even be perfectly optimized for some engines
Nah nobody used mac and from that fraction of nobody is nobody uses it for gaming
Even less people use Linux and that didn’t stop valve from developing proton. You got to be proactive or else nothing will change and you get stuck in a cycle of no demand, no supply, and so on. Valve realized they had to take the initiative themselves even with the abysmal Linux usage rate prior to the steam deck.
If Apple made a switch like product that would be amazing. maybe even just a bundle case type thing with an iPad mini pro would be a beast.
Bro your house is cool as hell, that studio is fire
0:40 This graph is mind blowing ! and I've seen M1 Max running AAA games through couple of tricks, and HW wise apple can do it but the effort and time ain't worth it for Apple, they are a trillion dollar company for a reason, same reason they don't care about gaming.
... But it's 5x the price of the console. The real amazing part is for 500-600$ hardware to pull 10-12 TFLOPS.
Apple: *Removes Vulkan from Mac OS*
Also Apple: Hey look! Metal! We care about gaming! We're so great!
There's something so satisfying about how the Xbox, the controller, and the Switch match the colors of the monitor, mouse and keyboard, and PC tower in the background.
plus soon the gaming will be more going towards the gforce now kind of platform... so perhaps they are not concerned with getting gaming too much into powerful computers area because it won't be necessary when all the or most of the gaming will be more transferred towards that. So perhaps it would be easier for them to translate their gaming business ideas towards that in some years when they find it as a good opportunity and when they feel it is the time... and most likely they will also do it better then the rest of the competition, like they most of the time manage to do.
I still think this year's MVP are Lenovo (with Legion 5/5Pro/7) and Asus ROG Strix. Now with ARM Macbooks even lost their ability for bootcamp. So its completely a no go. I considered them because I value completely silent devices while doing light work.
ASUS ROG STRIX was/is and will always be a freaking airplane toaster! 90% degrees for basic tasks and fans running over 5K RPMS. Garbage
You hit it on the head. Apple likes to sell things at a high premium and they want to do it as frequently as possible.
While Console Gamers expect a gaming platform to last them for a gen (4-6 years) before the next big upgrade.
The PC gamers otoh wants modularity, ability to choose between multiple OEM brands with full control on the costs of their rigs and somewhat backward compatibility.
The expectations and interests between gamers and Apple simply don't align, at all.
Good video, I however do believe that there will be a turning point in the gaming industry especially with the M1 chips. Seeing that iOS apps can run on M1 Macs I am pretty sure that developers will start seeing more Mac numbers and start utilizing the hybrid apps on iOS. Will it ever get to the level of the big titles? perhaps not. Will AAA titles also tap into this potential market? also a long stretch, but I'm keeping a close eye on how gaming is evolving and I am sure we'll see some big shift in the future eventually.
Great content buddy