Not only is there an oversaturation, but most Vtubers are basically just react Andys with a Vtuber model. They call themselves creators but they don't really create anything. There will always be a market for the actually creative ones.
there are "content creators" (and I use that term very loosely) with a Vtuber model and then there are actual Vtubers. Huge difference and it really shows
It's always been. Just that most avoided showing their political alignment, though they slip up from time-to-time. There's a reason why Pink Rabbit blew up, she stood out as unapologetically right-leaning, but she's now toning it down. Once it becomes mainsteam, instead of getting pozzed (which it already was), it'll be more like people will be more comfortable with saying what they think out loud. The biggest ones (with events and all that) will of course be the left-leaning circles, they're more ad-friendly after all.
the main issue with vtubers is that theyre everywhere now. like it used to be a cute gimmick with Kizuna AI and the other EARLY vtubers they were small. now vtubers are everywhere and theyre overlapping like crazy. even pippa isnt unique anymore.
In fairness, Pippa is her own worst enemy. She's chosen to dial down and censor herself because she believes her old behaviour that caused her to blow up would now pose trouble to her company and fellow talents; normally this would be quite rational but the extent to which she seems to want to be protective of Phase Connect borders on a messiah complex and implies that the company behind the scenes and its VTubers can't fight for themselves. It's also a long drawn out appeasement of the people that went after her which inevitably looks weak and uncharismatic. She also made the point that it's healthier for her IRL when she sorta just stops caring about online stuff that takes a mental toll on her but the people she lives and meets with in the flesh didn't even have a clue existed. She comes across as though she doesn't want to be known as 'the pink yabbit' anymore and would rather be a goofy silly 'innocent' streamer that's just known for being funny in games.
I've spent the last few months saying this, especially to small VTubers trying and failing to gain traction. Way too many of them are banking on agencies or the prospect of blending hard work and dumb-luck, because that is clearly the only thing that works, right? (Wrong) Everyone jumps into the scene chasing the same "bag" and saturation just isn't a thing that occurs to them. The VTubers that want to take off now, need to shift gears and stop trying to replicate the same phenomenon. And for the record, Pippa is right about the nature of business and creativity. People who assume that business just doesn't beget or breed creativity have a very tail-end lens on the culture they consume. Corporatist slop is the result of people who have no regard for anything other than numbers and growth invading a business and determining its future. But those people are rarely the ones who START a business. They are usually started by people who are passionate about a specific idea and think they can make something out of it. Most of them are like those streamers chasing the oversaturated bag, and will ultimately fail - but that doesn't mean the ones who didn't aren't of that same mindset. Businesses reach that corporate slop phase (heh) when they open up to outsiders who don't share those values or that drive, and the reason it seems like the inevitable end for all things business is because that USED to be a mandatory stage of growing, or even starting one. In the post-internet age, it simply isn't, and the more business-people get their work off of the ground having understood that and refusing to go that route, the less corporatist garbage we will see, in every industry.
Like for businesses, look at the Walt era of Disney. A full color, feature-length animated movie showing animation as a cinema medium. Fantasia pushing the creativity of what you could do. The jungle book exploring outside of the common western fables. The creativity you see in stuff like the dumbo pink elephants scene. Could an individual have done those? Especially that early? They did try, and usually failed because it’s such an intense task. People forget how many limits money alone can break. Then, through achieving these, they end up creating the tools and processes individuals can use to create something similar.
@@Tang-qi6zw And just as OP's analysis details, everyone who contributed to Disney's golden age is basically gone, replaced by self-indulgent amateurs who try to copy their success without any understanding or appreciation of why and how it got to that point in the first place. Despite the technology for film-making being more advanced than ever, Disney keeps sinking into greater depths of creative bankruptcy because they think that just simply throwing more and more money at the project will surely lead to success. But it doesn't, because people see through the pointless spending and overbudgeted films for what they are: a bunch of empty platitudes from people who have no passion or respect for the customer.
I agree with your statement but think the VTuber situation is a bit different. I think right now we are seeing a big problem of many start up companies that are just an attempt to ride a wave and milk money out of it & they have no care for the product itself or have no clue what they're doing or a combination of the two. Unfortunately this isn't unusual as VTubing is a growing industry and people will see an opportunity to jump on the money train. I don't see the more established companies really changing. Hololive, VShojo, Phase, even Niji seem to behave pretty consistently for the last few years. Maybe there's things I'm not seeing but to me this looks more like an issue with flawed business models often by people trying to cash in on a fad. I think there's still plenty of chances for companies with good business models to succeed.
I think it's going to normalize, the novelty will be gone, but it'll still be around. Luckily, there is still a lot of room for tech advancements with it that'll be fun and exciting.
The magic with Vtubers for me are the people leaning into an anon persona they otherwise wouldn't have if face camming. It's a similar freedom enjoyed before online and IRL personas merged as much as they do now. Online community allows people to shed part of themselves, only optionally share personal info, and grow their personality as a result. Or they're just freer to speak their mind. It's because of this people who are otherwise dysfunctional, shy or edgy can carve out an audience without the dread incurred by being doxxed. Ofc there's a mix of naturally extroverted entertainers and relative normie Vtubers (and fans alike) in-between that deservedly take up space, but Vtubing offers a way for everyone on that scale to thrive online and meet IRL while remaining private. With IRL streamers, you get a similar cast of people that orbit the big communities. And cross-pollination of IRL & mostly face doxxed Vtubers might filter and pull in a direction I'm not sure I'd like. I'm optimistic in believing it won't because audience taste won't allow it.
Yeah honestly I'm always a little bit disappointed by how few VTubers there are that actually commit to lore and never give up the bit of their character. For sure the personality has to be genuine in the end in order to be entertaining but there's so many other features that VTubers invent for themselves and play up at the start but drop very soon afterwards, often immediately after debut. Not uncommon for them to refer to themselves in third-person either, giving in to the reality that they are playing a fictional character that is not really them.
I’m not the biggest V-tuber fan out there, but I’m more in than normies. There’s too many to watch regularly and the ones you don’t follow can blur together. She’s right in that some people doing different stuff will be successful. I remember PumpkjnPotion by name because she looks completely different than the rest. A V-tuber that doesn’t stream but just uploads well edited thought out stuff will too.
@@chillchinna4164 I don't think so. It's a trend many people have predicted and some have already announced they're trying to get ahead of (Rin Penrose) so it will just become another wave everyone attempts to ride. It's also not as absent currently as it's made out to be. Hololive has an animated skit series (I hesitate to call it anime even if they do themselves) and frequently sends their girls on excursions to some museum, restaurant or miscellaneous activity for which they then do a condensed report video, as well as game show-type streams although I'm sure those have been less frequent ever since A-chan left. Many of the big VTubers, whether indie or corpo, have paid clippers to make stream highlights that they can put on on their main channels, or straight up done so themselves, and although that's not the same as properly formatted pre-recorded videos the amount of editing that goes into it can make it just as good.
i am the same age and i cannot put into words how much i miss the crazy conspiracy theory rabbit holes (heh) you could fall into on youtube like around 2010-2012.
The aftermath of Trump's 2016 victory saw the rise of Internet Blood Sports on UA-cam. I'm hoping with his 2024 victory we'll an IBS resurgence in VTuber form.
Pippa is making a critical mistake - the era of mass media is fundamentally over as can be seen by the collapse of legacy media giants like Disney and their franchises. The actual winning move for vtubing is to basically continue as it is while experimenting but always keeping close to their fans and audience. This means creating and upkeeping a genuine niche and culture that is separate from "mass appeal." In other words unless the whole of vtubing remains a niche with strong otaku appeal and tendencies it simply won't be worth paying attention to. The appeal comes from the fact it's a "personalized" kind of media and not a bloated monstrosity made for and curated for modern audiences(tm). Recent (alleged) happenings in Hololive's direction for instance only made the company less interesting and more offputting.
So why are mainstream companies collaborating with Vtubers to bring them to modern audiences(R)(TM) - the otaku will never play the baseball nor consoom the sportsball media/products that MLB is relying upon for some of their revenue. What do they stand to gain from it besides a one-off boost in sales?
@@singithi8556 Just like how I believe that the future of vtubing and any other form of culture that wishes to remain living is in being niche we're also in a time where legacy companies and other such things are trying to create giant blobs of IPs. So yeah, for all practical purposes the future of vtubing looks rather grim. I like to hope for the best though.
@@singithi8556 Of all the sports, baseball is probably one of the most otaku-friendly out there, being popular in both USA and Japan. It's also a simple enough sport that it's easy to be a casual fan of it without particularly caring about any specific teams, but also easy to get invested in if there's a player or team you happen to like a lot. Oozora Subaru of Hololive is a big baseball fan. In addition, while I don't know if it's like this in Japan, I am sure there are many American sons and fathers that bond over baseball for the sake of their relationship even if one or both of them isn't *really* a fan. Cross-pollination is not that difficult.
I feel that it’s such a mistake to break into the mainstream. Everything that gets big enough to get noticed by the general public and then chooses to pursue ever greater profits by watering itself down in order to appeal to everyone loses its soul. The period right before that when it’s a large, recognized, profitable niche is the golden age and this golden age is toppled by greed. I firmly believe that the better path would be to keep being what it is and catering to the people that love it, let the general public think of it as a little bit strange, and continue to be a large profitable niche.
Plus, at first, the profits start flooding in when something becomes mainstream, but if it loses its soul, what made it special for the sake of of catering to the wider masses, it loses all sustainability in profit as the public loses interest in it and the niche it was once a part of becomes disillusioned with it. There's a magic to it that's easy to snuff out from mass public attention. Or it dissolves and transforms so much that it might as well be a different thing.
I’d say we are closer to the 2013ish UA-cam with the “companies” made up of content creators starting to break apart or hit some major controversies(coughcough niji cough). Like someone else said 20 groups broke up this year alone and several mainstream Vtubers like Ame or Fauna have either graduated or are graduating in favor of going back to their OG personas for a myriad of reasons. This may be wrong but I think this next year will be rough for all corporate Vtubers as the market continues to flood with Indies who can look to icons like Ironmouse, Pips, or Mori and figure out how to crack the system without having to submit to the whims of another person.
Vtubing got oversaturated years ago. So the culture becoming more mainstream, corporate and easier to consume is inevitable. There's like a million vtubers all streaming and fighting for your attention. That's just not sustainable for most people who want vtubing to be their job.
For me, the reason I started watching Vtubers was because I ran across Korone streaming Doom64. I used to enjoy watching people on Twitch, back when that site was primarily gaming streams, and here was this Japanese girl using rudimentary English with cute phrases. I don't associate Vtubers with videos and premade stuff. Kizuna Ai I knew about before, but wasn't really my cup of tea. As more and more vtubers just transitioned to zatsu almost exclusively, I have been feeling more apathetic to watching most of them. At least Korone still plays old games and is still cute.
Yeah it's a bit disappointing and even though some of the VTubers I support do this it is a personal peeve of mine when they do half an hour or even a full hour of chatter and 'yapping' at the start of a stream that is meant to be about a game. But this to me is an interface problem more than anything, and I can only imagine someday in the near future all this stuff will be possible to categorise and sort through and filter way easier.
I've been waiting for the implosion of Vtubers for the past year. Idk what's going through large agencies' heads as they keep debuting new gens. I feel like they're not thinking long-term stability and just trying to grow infinitely like every other corporate industry
It's kinda like videogames and corpo buying studios too. You will end up with amazing studios that end up closing down 5 to 10 years after acqusition because the board of directors want yachts and abuse their employees.
I agree to a bunch of stuff said. Some of the larger vtubers already upload edited 20-40 minute versions of certain streams and collabs. Prime examples would be Matara or Limealicious. It's probably no coincidence that these are vtubers that are closer to classic youtube creators and collab with them a lot. Vtubers in their current form only exist because if their idol style culture and following. The fans are more dedicated than average and much more willing to spend on supas and merch. Though I disagree on the vtuber corpo take. It will follow the same fate youtuber companies did mostly, most will fail but some will continue to thrive because they truly understand the advantages of a media production company. In fact we're already seeing this, the only difference is that less new ones will pop up. But overall there will be more vtuber companies due to the idol group incentive it's just such a sales factor for merch even if you don't watch everyone a lot. Maybe even indie groups kind of like FlaVR. Talent Agencies probably have a better future overall, but are still kinda risky and I expect a few larger ones to dominate the space within a few years. If Google is smart, they'll create a management service or something as a subscription.
You're not wrong, but I think you're misattributing VTubers that pay clippers or clip their own streams to create stream highlights for their channels as consciously deciding to non-live videos. I won't claim to know how their brains work any better than you but my personal feeling is that they aren't trying to pivot, at least not deliberately, they're just doing the perfectly normal thing of posting highlights to get extra views from those that couldn't attend the stream and to attract new viewers. This scales particularly well for VTubers that do long, multiple-hour streams in which not every minute can be exciting so distilling just the good bits and creating a digest is just helpful to everyone.
Dude I remember when UA-cam first started you had about 2 minutes or less worth of video and specific video file types to use with specific resolutions. Shit is so easy today with UA-cam than in the beginning
The one who refuse to embrace kayfabe tend to fail hard. I remember a lot of people showing their face because of a tiktok challenge/trend. Those people never become successful Vtuber.
all about the numbers. removing ads,cheapening subs&longform stuff will get millions of viewers live&recorded. in vid ads will be the last hurrah. "Hi,millions of people,tho subs getting specials ,backstage passes&free keychains". Let's go!
Over saturation comes with everyone being colorful cookie cutouts and copies with no substance and too much sugar. Those who are different will rarely be truly appreciated. It will force the newbies to copy the veterans.
How is this a doomer take? As someone who's also been watching since Kizuna Ai, Pippa's take is an obvious one. People who started watching only EN vtubers and only since COVID have only a young and myopic take.
i don't know what she means by vtuber "culture". does that mean more furries/PDF or less? to me vtubing is just one style of making content. maybe it looks oversaturated to some people but it will find its balance eventually. let's plays still exist.
@eotikurac yeah i hate the term "community" Its a content style. Not a group, 90% of tubers in agency weren't even collabing very much for awhile there so let alone all the companies. How does that even add up? I never understood that view at all
I mean I've only been watching vtubers for about half a year but it reminds me of 15-30 minute essay vids where people used random images as an avatar and they didnt need to gave a face to the name. I think people will realise that theres still demand but that the sanitisation and standardisation of content will kill what made it so personable and dull that edge and passion. When i compare 2014-16 youtube to now it is like the only ones worth watching are people who do everything in one take/still have some edge or make a 1/2 hour documentary style video
I agree, quality content use to take longer to produce. It was so good, we often rewatched it several times. It seems like content gets produced every day, I will say it does cheapen it a bit.
4:30 i remember this actually. i'm old enough to remember mid 2000s onward internet lol the internet was a lot more authentic and genuine before sponsors and corporations made it all about money. content felt inspired instead of a lot of the low-quality slop we have.
We've come full circle. In 2018 I was watching HimeHina subbed videos because they were high production and cute. Same with OmeSis who did a lot of tech news and videos. I have yet to see EN vtubers take ANY steps in that direction. Over saturation has been a huge bust on vtubers, I can't watch 200 people stream a game I've played already for 4 hours at a time.
I wonder if the "keep your anonymity safe" aspect will indirectly be at risk by hybrid vtuber/face cam content creators just simply using both things and becoming big. That's what I think vtubers who enjoy the anonymous aspect of vtubing should consider since that might attract normies, then big viewership channels could attract longtime vtuber fans. Just things to consider if one big part of becoming a vtuber could be at risk.
Honestly, I think there's three agency models that'll work in the future for vtubing: High quality agency (Hololive, Phase Connect), Concept agency (honestly don't know if anyone does this beyond initial lore which is then discarded because no one gives a rat's behind), and finally "hands-off" agency (Vshojo, Mythic, Phase invaders possibly). If your company can't place themselves into one of these camps, it'll wither away as competition drowns the market.
I love my controversial/based, "pick-me", indie vtubers that definitely aren't fed honeypots. Like SmugAlana, KirscheVerstahl, Remi Springs, and some of the phase girls.
I think 2024 wasn't a bad year for vtubing. It's just remembered as bad because it's accentuated by some really painful graduations announced right at the end of the year. IMO 2023 was much worse because of some graduations and the massive blunders of some corpos but since 2024 is fresh in our minds it stings more.
This is what i always expected to happen. Vtubing really isn't a special market it was just new an came at a time of unprecedented social strife (the coof) Why we are suprised is weird
ngl golden age of vtuber was the beginning of hololive translated videos where mostly consisted of matsuri, watame, rushia, korone xD most people dont even remember the hachaama english/cooking time
@@Ani-me2 kinda yeah it was basic and you didnt knew everything (except you could speak japanese xD) and then if some vtuber spoke english it was crazy like korone or tenshi with a shotgun (Forgot the name xD)
Fauna's Outer Wilds series was peak. I really enjoyed that and I hope LemonLeaf does some content like that in the future. Like Pippa, I'm also super picky. I look at a lot of Indies, however, I've also "Do Not Recommend Channel" a lot of them too. I don't care if you're a dude with a chick model, but I have no desire to listen to the ones trying to legitimately sound female, when their voice is no where close. I have no idea why they think it's better than their regular voice unless they're one of those "but, muh gender affirmation" losers. I'd have the same reaction to a woman doing the same to like a man, however, women prefer to just try and deepen their voice, sounding like a 13 year old trying to puff up. It's just as eyerolling, but less ear bleeding, because I don't have to hear constant artefacting and limpsimps saying how much they love the "females" voice.
You can look at it like the gaming industry. Once it was proven to make money, corpo bros came in and became investors and started calling shots in a field they know nothing about. Then they start making their non gamer bros into ceos of the gaming industry and you get a decade of live service and p2w and half of a game sold at a higher price and nft games until eventually everything that was profitable about the industry is dead and the companies are dead and the corpo bros move on to the next commodity to destroy. Shout out to hololive btw going public and getting all those nice investors.
Some people seem to want to see Vtubing grow, but don't bother asking which direction it should grow in. My prediction is that the more mainstream it will go in the west, the more it will become slop. Not like it doesn't happen everywhere else, all the time. It's already huge in Japan, but I have no idea where it can go from there, if it even will. A reminder to gatekeep your hobbies.
I don't see this as a doomer take. This is what happenes in any industry. "Vtubing" will dissapear and vtubing (difference intended) will just become a tool used when streaming. It's not good or bad, it just is.
@@Kandralla i mean i don't this one in particular but pippa is full of doomer takes, and i honestly think she is wrong in this one since im convinced the idol thing is probably gonna grow a lot
I think I know what Pippa means, there's been a lot of BS this year as opposed to last year, plus the whole twitch cracking down more on vtubers than flesh streamers, it's left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths, I'm sure.
I thought about getting into the space but male vtubers are just severely debuffed and you're only options really is to get into holo or niji and good luck with that.
Honestly male vtuber models aside from anonymity are not gonna cut it for that specific market. It's the voice that attracts the megafans. Those male vtubers that do get huge are all thirst bait for half their content and not actually interesting at all to watch. Other successful streamers who have a huge following don't even debuff themselves with a fake online persona, they turn on a webcam and show off their filth while doing 360 no scopes while talking like a dudebro. So the choices are simple: Have a good voice and thrist bait. Or Be good at something and just wing it. Or have a sexy voice and good at a niche and wing it.
I think as the internet as a whole is going to see changes. I would not be surprised if there's going to become multiple networks at this point. More people are going to be going outside more and we will see a move back to public life.
This video feels like a stream of random, constantly flowing thoughts without any further dissection into any particular thought bubble. Just constantly moving with only a paragraph of defense given. Nonetheless, here is what I, a random Internet guy thinks Her thoughts on the future of vtubing being more focused on high quality videos rather than streaming I feel won't come true to a high chance and her using letsplay as a comparison is a bad comparison If you look at how let's plays are doing now, they're pretty okay. Of course, it doesn't have that same spark that made it special but it's still a thing, people still engage in it. Streaming was what made vtubers mainstream and it will continue to make it such. There's no radical change to be made in the following years, just the same things that you've always enjoyed People are not just going to get tired of vstreaming, people will still flock to it. Obviously not you apparently but people will. Her thoughts on vcorpos becoming obsolete on the coming years and the excessive negativity from chat I feel is just plain wrong. Yeah, the higher ups that started vtuber companies to cash in on the trend got their 💰 and are getting diminishing returns. Since they are unable to understand the real essence of what made them popular, they go bankrupt. So what? That happens when a trend is on; these things happen. Overall, these thoughts obviously come from a western perspective and one that is biased towards indies. So hololive slipped and twisted their ankle and scrapped their arm, what about it? Their success is still going to up with all the new hype still ongoing. All the rumors rn are still rumours, plus even if there are true I highly doubt yagoo will make the mistake that CEOs are known to make considering being authentic and adorkable is kinda what made them popular Niji is on life support but they'll manage. Unless half of their talents gets ousted for various allegations, people will still flock. IMO, they have best consistent talents, both old and new. I'm not that big of a niji fan but even my occasional toe dipping is enough to convince me The normie comments from chat make no sense. My brother is christ, you are the normie. I'm also a normie! We are all normies Her thoughts on the separation of idol culture and "twitch" culture is absolutely spot on and I agree 👍. I really think the separation happened when holoen gen1 dropped as well as people like ironmouse and nyanners with the rise of vshojo. I imagine it will go in the way of backrooms and liminal spaces, with idol culture being this niche interest that has a consistent fanbase and the other being this chaotic force that ebbs and flows Her thoughts definitely come off as rambling and I feel that her perspective is quite narrow but it's still an educated one
>most vtubers are women
>”they hit the wall”
What did Pippa mean by this?
Is this the redpill "hit the wall?" (Getting too old to attract men using healthy looks)
DAMN THAT GLASS CEILING!!!
@@ian251 Redpill
Hagmaxxing
They fell and hit the door.
Not only is there an oversaturation, but most Vtubers are basically just react Andys with a Vtuber model. They call themselves creators but they don't really create anything. There will always be a market for the actually creative ones.
there are "content creators" (and I use that term very loosely) with a Vtuber model and then there are actual Vtubers. Huge difference and it really shows
Once it becomes mainstream it will be pozzed.
Yup
Was from the beginning and now the non-left vtubers are rising
YAGOO at the game awards
sadge
It already is pretty much
It's always been. Just that most avoided showing their political alignment, though they slip up from time-to-time. There's a reason why Pink Rabbit blew up, she stood out as unapologetically right-leaning, but she's now toning it down.
Once it becomes mainsteam, instead of getting pozzed (which it already was), it'll be more like people will be more comfortable with saying what they think out loud. The biggest ones (with events and all that) will of course be the left-leaning circles, they're more ad-friendly after all.
the main issue with vtubers is that theyre everywhere now. like it used to be a cute gimmick with Kizuna AI and the other EARLY vtubers they were small. now vtubers are everywhere and theyre overlapping like crazy. even pippa isnt unique anymore.
In fairness, Pippa is her own worst enemy. She's chosen to dial down and censor herself because she believes her old behaviour that caused her to blow up would now pose trouble to her company and fellow talents; normally this would be quite rational but the extent to which she seems to want to be protective of Phase Connect borders on a messiah complex and implies that the company behind the scenes and its VTubers can't fight for themselves. It's also a long drawn out appeasement of the people that went after her which inevitably looks weak and uncharismatic.
She also made the point that it's healthier for her IRL when she sorta just stops caring about online stuff that takes a mental toll on her but the people she lives and meets with in the flesh didn't even have a clue existed. She comes across as though she doesn't want to be known as 'the pink yabbit' anymore and would rather be a goofy silly 'innocent' streamer that's just known for being funny in games.
My non-doomer take is that Pippa is breedable
view not shared but understandable
If Pippa quits she's going to make her own agency with Blackjack and Hookers and call it BREED CONNECT
hard agree
@@flexprime2010 She's a rabbit. She's breedable by definition.
I've spent the last few months saying this, especially to small VTubers trying and failing to gain traction. Way too many of them are banking on agencies or the prospect of blending hard work and dumb-luck, because that is clearly the only thing that works, right? (Wrong)
Everyone jumps into the scene chasing the same "bag" and saturation just isn't a thing that occurs to them. The VTubers that want to take off now, need to shift gears and stop trying to replicate the same phenomenon.
And for the record, Pippa is right about the nature of business and creativity. People who assume that business just doesn't beget or breed creativity have a very tail-end lens on the culture they consume. Corporatist slop is the result of people who have no regard for anything other than numbers and growth invading a business and determining its future. But those people are rarely the ones who START a business. They are usually started by people who are passionate about a specific idea and think they can make something out of it. Most of them are like those streamers chasing the oversaturated bag, and will ultimately fail - but that doesn't mean the ones who didn't aren't of that same mindset.
Businesses reach that corporate slop phase (heh) when they open up to outsiders who don't share those values or that drive, and the reason it seems like the inevitable end for all things business is because that USED to be a mandatory stage of growing, or even starting one. In the post-internet age, it simply isn't, and the more business-people get their work off of the ground having understood that and refusing to go that route, the less corporatist garbage we will see, in every industry.
Like for businesses, look at the Walt era of Disney. A full color, feature-length animated movie showing animation as a cinema medium. Fantasia pushing the creativity of what you could do. The jungle book exploring outside of the common western fables. The creativity you see in stuff like the dumbo pink elephants scene. Could an individual have done those? Especially that early? They did try, and usually failed because it’s such an intense task. People forget how many limits money alone can break. Then, through achieving these, they end up creating the tools and processes individuals can use to create something similar.
@@Tang-qi6zw And just as OP's analysis details, everyone who contributed to Disney's golden age is basically gone, replaced by self-indulgent amateurs who try to copy their success without any understanding or appreciation of why and how it got to that point in the first place. Despite the technology for film-making being more advanced than ever, Disney keeps sinking into greater depths of creative bankruptcy because they think that just simply throwing more and more money at the project will surely lead to success. But it doesn't, because people see through the pointless spending and overbudgeted films for what they are: a bunch of empty platitudes from people who have no passion or respect for the customer.
I agree with your statement but think the VTuber situation is a bit different. I think right now we are seeing a big problem of many start up companies that are just an attempt to ride a wave and milk money out of it & they have no care for the product itself or have no clue what they're doing or a combination of the two. Unfortunately this isn't unusual as VTubing is a growing industry and people will see an opportunity to jump on the money train.
I don't see the more established companies really changing. Hololive, VShojo, Phase, even Niji seem to behave pretty consistently for the last few years. Maybe there's things I'm not seeing but to me this looks more like an issue with flawed business models often by people trying to cash in on a fad. I think there's still plenty of chances for companies with good business models to succeed.
20 Vtuber companies literally failed this year. There's a freaking lot of them.
I thought so over 2 years ago. I just didn’t say anything because no one ever brought it up.
I think it's going to normalize, the novelty will be gone, but it'll still be around. Luckily, there is still a lot of room for tech advancements with it that'll be fun and exciting.
The magic with Vtubers for me are the people leaning into an anon persona they otherwise wouldn't have if face camming. It's a similar freedom enjoyed before online and IRL personas merged as much as they do now. Online community allows people to shed part of themselves, only optionally share personal info, and grow their personality as a result. Or they're just freer to speak their mind. It's because of this people who are otherwise dysfunctional, shy or edgy can carve out an audience without the dread incurred by being doxxed.
Ofc there's a mix of naturally extroverted entertainers and relative normie Vtubers (and fans alike) in-between that deservedly take up space, but Vtubing offers a way for everyone on that scale to thrive online and meet IRL while remaining private. With IRL streamers, you get a similar cast of people that orbit the big communities. And cross-pollination of IRL & mostly face doxxed Vtubers might filter and pull in a direction I'm not sure I'd like. I'm optimistic in believing it won't because audience taste won't allow it.
Yeah honestly I'm always a little bit disappointed by how few VTubers there are that actually commit to lore and never give up the bit of their character. For sure the personality has to be genuine in the end in order to be entertaining but there's so many other features that VTubers invent for themselves and play up at the start but drop very soon afterwards, often immediately after debut. Not uncommon for them to refer to themselves in third-person either, giving in to the reality that they are playing a fictional character that is not really them.
"they need to adapt" nah dog the normies coming in need to adapt or shut up
It's an unfortunate side effect, like you want them to succeed and all that but normies just come in and try to run the place.
I’m not the biggest V-tuber fan out there, but I’m more in than normies. There’s too many to watch regularly and the ones you don’t follow can blur together. She’s right in that some people doing different stuff will be successful.
I remember PumpkjnPotion by name because she looks completely different than the rest. A V-tuber that doesn’t stream but just uploads well edited thought out stuff will too.
depends on if we can hold the gate or not
I agree but normies have the most money to spend on vtubers.
@@chillchinna4164 I don't think so. It's a trend many people have predicted and some have already announced they're trying to get ahead of (Rin Penrose) so it will just become another wave everyone attempts to ride. It's also not as absent currently as it's made out to be.
Hololive has an animated skit series (I hesitate to call it anime even if they do themselves) and frequently sends their girls on excursions to some museum, restaurant or miscellaneous activity for which they then do a condensed report video, as well as game show-type streams although I'm sure those have been less frequent ever since A-chan left.
Many of the big VTubers, whether indie or corpo, have paid clippers to make stream highlights that they can put on on their main channels, or straight up done so themselves, and although that's not the same as properly formatted pre-recorded videos the amount of editing that goes into it can make it just as good.
4:14 okay mega hag I trust you 👍 (im 32 and I remember all youtube eras as well)
Nice
i am the same age and i cannot put into words how much i miss the crazy conspiracy theory rabbit holes (heh) you could fall into on youtube like around 2010-2012.
The aftermath of Trump's 2016 victory saw the rise of Internet Blood Sports on UA-cam.
I'm hoping with his 2024 victory we'll an IBS resurgence in VTuber form.
God that would be amazing. As stupid as donga was, their IBS show was absolutely riveting.
Pippa: "The market is oversaturated and most companies will probably be dead within a year."
ME: "Well, time to start vtubing."
Pippa is making a critical mistake - the era of mass media is fundamentally over as can be seen by the collapse of legacy media giants like Disney and their franchises. The actual winning move for vtubing is to basically continue as it is while experimenting but always keeping close to their fans and audience. This means creating and upkeeping a genuine niche and culture that is separate from "mass appeal." In other words unless the whole of vtubing remains a niche with strong otaku appeal and tendencies it simply won't be worth paying attention to. The appeal comes from the fact it's a "personalized" kind of media and not a bloated monstrosity made for and curated for modern audiences(tm). Recent (alleged) happenings in Hololive's direction for instance only made the company less interesting and more offputting.
So why are mainstream companies collaborating with Vtubers to bring them to modern audiences(R)(TM) - the otaku will never play the baseball nor consoom the sportsball media/products that MLB is relying upon for some of their revenue. What do they stand to gain from it besides a one-off boost in sales?
@@singithi8556 Just like how I believe that the future of vtubing and any other form of culture that wishes to remain living is in being niche we're also in a time where legacy companies and other such things are trying to create giant blobs of IPs. So yeah, for all practical purposes the future of vtubing looks rather grim. I like to hope for the best though.
@@singithi8556 Of all the sports, baseball is probably one of the most otaku-friendly out there, being popular in both USA and Japan. It's also a simple enough sport that it's easy to be a casual fan of it without particularly caring about any specific teams, but also easy to get invested in if there's a player or team you happen to like a lot.
Oozora Subaru of Hololive is a big baseball fan.
In addition, while I don't know if it's like this in Japan, I am sure there are many American sons and fathers that bond over baseball for the sake of their relationship even if one or both of them isn't *really* a fan.
Cross-pollination is not that difficult.
I feel that it’s such a mistake to break into the mainstream. Everything that gets big enough to get noticed by the general public and then chooses to pursue ever greater profits by watering itself down in order to appeal to everyone loses its soul. The period right before that when it’s a large, recognized, profitable niche is the golden age and this golden age is toppled by greed. I firmly believe that the better path would be to keep being what it is and catering to the people that love it, let the general public think of it as a little bit strange, and continue to be a large profitable niche.
And if more things did this being a little strange would be far more accepted because it would be normal
Plus, at first, the profits start flooding in when something becomes mainstream, but if it loses its soul, what made it special for the sake of of catering to the wider masses, it loses all sustainability in profit as the public loses interest in it and the niche it was once a part of becomes disillusioned with it. There's a magic to it that's easy to snuff out from mass public attention. Or it dissolves and transforms so much that it might as well be a different thing.
Blackrock is invested in hololive lol we are forked
Good thing pippa works for a coffee company instead of a vtuber company
I’d say we are closer to the 2013ish UA-cam with the “companies” made up of content creators starting to break apart or hit some major controversies(coughcough niji cough). Like someone else said 20 groups broke up this year alone and several mainstream Vtubers like Ame or Fauna have either graduated or are graduating in favor of going back to their OG personas for a myriad of reasons. This may be wrong but I think this next year will be rough for all corporate Vtubers as the market continues to flood with Indies who can look to icons like Ironmouse, Pips, or Mori and figure out how to crack the system without having to submit to the whims of another person.
7:51 yeah thats smug alana
Vtubing got oversaturated years ago. So the culture becoming more mainstream, corporate and easier to consume is inevitable. There's like a million vtubers all streaming and fighting for your attention. That's just not sustainable for most people who want vtubing to be their job.
Ah yes, the "new" audience, the ones that get catered to before the down fall because it was the original fan base that actually kept things going
For me, the reason I started watching Vtubers was because I ran across Korone streaming Doom64. I used to enjoy watching people on Twitch, back when that site was primarily gaming streams, and here was this Japanese girl using rudimentary English with cute phrases. I don't associate Vtubers with videos and premade stuff. Kizuna Ai I knew about before, but wasn't really my cup of tea. As more and more vtubers just transitioned to zatsu almost exclusively, I have been feeling more apathetic to watching most of them. At least Korone still plays old games and is still cute.
To be fair those kind of gamer vtuber still exist and thrive.
Korone is uniquely top shelf.
Yeah it's a bit disappointing and even though some of the VTubers I support do this it is a personal peeve of mine when they do half an hour or even a full hour of chatter and 'yapping' at the start of a stream that is meant to be about a game. But this to me is an interface problem more than anything, and I can only imagine someday in the near future all this stuff will be possible to categorise and sort through and filter way easier.
I've been waiting for the implosion of Vtubers for the past year. Idk what's going through large agencies' heads as they keep debuting new gens. I feel like they're not thinking long-term stability and just trying to grow infinitely like every other corporate industry
It's kinda like videogames and corpo buying studios too.
You will end up with amazing studios that end up closing down 5 to 10 years after acqusition because the board of directors want yachts and abuse their employees.
2022-early 2023 was such a fun year for vtubing lol
I agree to a bunch of stuff said.
Some of the larger vtubers already upload edited 20-40 minute versions of certain streams and collabs. Prime examples would be Matara or Limealicious. It's probably no coincidence that these are vtubers that are closer to classic youtube creators and collab with them a lot.
Vtubers in their current form only exist because if their idol style culture and following. The fans are more dedicated than average and much more willing to spend on supas and merch. Though I disagree on the vtuber corpo take. It will follow the same fate youtuber companies did mostly, most will fail but some will continue to thrive because they truly understand the advantages of a media production company. In fact we're already seeing this, the only difference is that less new ones will pop up. But overall there will be more vtuber companies due to the idol group incentive it's just such a sales factor for merch even if you don't watch everyone a lot. Maybe even indie groups kind of like FlaVR.
Talent Agencies probably have a better future overall, but are still kinda risky and I expect a few larger ones to dominate the space within a few years. If Google is smart, they'll create a management service or something as a subscription.
You're not wrong, but I think you're misattributing VTubers that pay clippers or clip their own streams to create stream highlights for their channels as consciously deciding to non-live videos. I won't claim to know how their brains work any better than you but my personal feeling is that they aren't trying to pivot, at least not deliberately, they're just doing the perfectly normal thing of posting highlights to get extra views from those that couldn't attend the stream and to attract new viewers. This scales particularly well for VTubers that do long, multiple-hour streams in which not every minute can be exciting so distilling just the good bits and creating a digest is just helpful to everyone.
Dude I remember when UA-cam first started you had about 2 minutes or less worth of video and specific video file types to use with specific resolutions. Shit is so easy today with UA-cam than in the beginning
"Well good luck with that"
No body is doing a high end production without aan agency
Pippa is too aware, she feels like a middle age woman with 3 kids
I wish she still wanted to save the world but alas
Too many tourists or people who aren't willing to embrace the culture/kayfabe
The one who refuse to embrace kayfabe tend to fail hard. I remember a lot of people showing their face because of a tiktok challenge/trend. Those people never become successful Vtuber.
all about the numbers. removing ads,cheapening
subs&longform stuff will get millions of viewers
live&recorded. in vid ads will be the last hurrah.
"Hi,millions of people,tho subs getting specials
,backstage passes&free keychains". Let's go!
"I don't think vtuber companies are gonna last" is not a doomer take at all
She's becoming... normal 😂
Over saturation comes with everyone being colorful cookie cutouts and copies with no substance and too much sugar. Those who are different will rarely be truly appreciated. It will force the newbies to copy the veterans.
How is this a doomer take? As someone who's also been watching since Kizuna Ai, Pippa's take is an obvious one. People who started watching only EN vtubers and only since COVID have only a young and myopic take.
i don't know what she means by vtuber "culture". does that mean more furries/PDF or less?
to me vtubing is just one style of making content. maybe it looks oversaturated to some people but it will find its balance eventually. let's plays still exist.
@eotikurac yeah i hate the term "community"
Its a content style. Not a group, 90% of tubers in agency weren't even collabing very much for awhile there so let alone all the companies. How does that even add up? I never understood that view at all
I mean I've only been watching vtubers for about half a year but it reminds me of 15-30 minute essay vids where people used random images as an avatar and they didnt need to gave a face to the name. I think people will realise that theres still demand but that the sanitisation and standardisation of content will kill what made it so personable and dull that edge and passion. When i compare 2014-16 youtube to now it is like the only ones worth watching are people who do everything in one take/still have some edge or make a 1/2 hour documentary style video
I agree, quality content use to take longer to produce. It was so good, we often rewatched it several times. It seems like content gets produced every day, I will say it does cheapen it a bit.
4:30 i remember this actually. i'm old enough to remember mid 2000s onward internet lol the internet was a lot more authentic and genuine before sponsors and corporations made it all about money. content felt inspired instead of a lot of the low-quality slop we have.
Good thing Phase-Connect is a coffee company not a vtuber agency.
Hololive with the AAA tier advertisements
We've come full circle. In 2018 I was watching HimeHina subbed videos because they were high production and cute. Same with OmeSis who did a lot of tech news and videos.
I have yet to see EN vtubers take ANY steps in that direction. Over saturation has been a huge bust on vtubers, I can't watch 200 people stream a game I've played already for 4 hours at a time.
I’m pretty sure the moist critical of vtubers is something like Alana, unironically.
Or FalseEyeD.
BriatCookiebox is already on the short content grind.
I wonder if the "keep your anonymity safe" aspect will indirectly be at risk by hybrid vtuber/face cam content creators just simply using both things and becoming big. That's what I think vtubers who enjoy the anonymous aspect of vtubing should consider since that might attract normies, then big viewership channels could attract longtime vtuber fans. Just things to consider if one big part of becoming a vtuber could be at risk.
Honestly, I think there's three agency models that'll work in the future for vtubing: High quality agency (Hololive, Phase Connect), Concept agency (honestly don't know if anyone does this beyond initial lore which is then discarded because no one gives a rat's behind), and finally "hands-off" agency (Vshojo, Mythic, Phase invaders possibly).
If your company can't place themselves into one of these camps, it'll wither away as competition drowns the market.
Vtubers corpos will survive... after Tencent buy them and merge all Vtubers in one agency.
I love my controversial/based, "pick-me", indie vtubers that definitely aren't fed honeypots.
Like SmugAlana, KirscheVerstahl, Remi Springs, and some of the phase girls.
Not a great year for Pippa? She had 2 3D performances wtf lol
the mega idol....
I think 2024 wasn't a bad year for vtubing. It's just remembered as bad because it's accentuated by some really painful graduations announced right at the end of the year. IMO 2023 was much worse because of some graduations and the massive blunders of some corpos but since 2024 is fresh in our minds it stings more.
This is what i always expected to happen. Vtubing really isn't a special market it was just new an came at a time of unprecedented social strife (the coof)
Why we are suprised is weird
"mesh in imma"(?)gotta figure out what'n'hell that is
Pippa will stay the best vtuber in my book ❤
pipipipipipipipipi
The great oracle has spoken!
ngl golden age of vtuber was the beginning of hololive translated videos
where mostly consisted of matsuri, watame, rushia, korone xD
most people dont even remember the hachaama english/cooking time
so 2019-2020
@@Ani-me2 kinda yeah it was basic and you didnt knew everything (except you could speak japanese xD)
and then if some vtuber spoke english it was crazy like korone or tenshi with a shotgun (Forgot the name xD)
getting suggestions all over the place,w/some incredibly old ones. heard soon it will not prominently display age of upload
I think more niches are picking up in youtube
Panko knows me! You don’t!
Fauna's Outer Wilds series was peak. I really enjoyed that and I hope LemonLeaf does some content like that in the future.
Like Pippa, I'm also super picky. I look at a lot of Indies, however, I've also "Do Not Recommend Channel" a lot of them too. I don't care if you're a dude with a chick model, but I have no desire to listen to the ones trying to legitimately sound female, when their voice is no where close. I have no idea why they think it's better than their regular voice unless they're one of those "but, muh gender affirmation" losers. I'd have the same reaction to a woman doing the same to like a man, however, women prefer to just try and deepen their voice, sounding like a 13 year old trying to puff up. It's just as eyerolling, but less ear bleeding, because I don't have to hear constant artefacting and limpsimps saying how much they love the "females" voice.
wonder if pippa watches penrose given the comment on videos
You can look at it like the gaming industry. Once it was proven to make money, corpo bros came in and became investors and started calling shots in a field they know nothing about. Then they start making their non gamer bros into ceos of the gaming industry and you get a decade of live service and p2w and half of a game sold at a higher price and nft games until eventually everything that was profitable about the industry is dead and the companies are dead and the corpo bros move on to the next commodity to destroy. Shout out to hololive btw going public and getting all those nice investors.
Some people seem to want to see Vtubing grow, but don't bother asking which direction it should grow in.
My prediction is that the more mainstream it will go in the west, the more it will become slop. Not like it doesn't happen everywhere else, all the time. It's already huge in Japan, but I have no idea where it can go from there, if it even will.
A reminder to gatekeep your hobbies.
Pretty good insight here.
Pippa: I think VTuber companies are going away.
Chat: Good thing Phase Connect is a coffee company. Had us worried for a sec there.
are there any pippa takes that aren't Doomer takes?
I don't see this as a doomer take. This is what happenes in any industry. "Vtubing" will dissapear and vtubing (difference intended) will just become a tool used when streaming.
It's not good or bad, it just is.
@@Kandralla i mean i don't this one in particular but pippa is full of doomer takes, and i honestly think she is wrong in this one since im convinced the idol thing is probably gonna grow a lot
I think I know what Pippa means, there's been a lot of BS this year as opposed to last year, plus the whole twitch cracking down more on vtubers than flesh streamers, it's left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths, I'm sure.
Wow 20 min clip
She's right.
2023✓2024x, government &taxation got more involved,so thinking content vs inside vTubers
lives got blended for random vTubers,like Pippa
I thought about getting into the space but male vtubers are just severely debuffed and you're only options really is to get into holo or niji and good luck with that.
Or be a femboy vtuber
Dudes have esports skill advantage, but esports is a dead niche...
Honestly male vtuber models aside from anonymity are not gonna cut it for that specific market. It's the voice that attracts the megafans. Those male vtubers that do get huge are all thirst bait for half their content and not actually interesting at all to watch.
Other successful streamers who have a huge following don't even debuff themselves with a fake online persona, they turn on a webcam and show off their filth while doing 360 no scopes while talking like a dudebro.
So the choices are simple:
Have a good voice and thrist bait.
Or
Be good at something and just wing it.
Or have a sexy voice and good at a niche and wing it.
@@Hydrosphere13 Femboys and esports
High quality video content, so not pipkin pipa lmfaoo
I think as the internet as a whole is going to see changes. I would not be surprised if there's going to become multiple networks at this point. More people are going to be going outside more and we will see a move back to public life.
I hope so, NORPS and kids should get off the internet, leave the internet to the autists and schizos
Have some fun with miku, inventor of the Toyota Corolla.
sucks that real talents like Inislein get overlooked
As much as I love Inis, I would be terrified if she got more mainstream attention. Even Shondo was disturbed at the 'boysmell' incident.
@Rogue-a-Pogue fear not the Inis, embrace the Inis, all she wants is Poland
@@friedrichwilhelmvonsteuben7952 She knows that's not where Pole dancers come from, right?
Confirms the "anything you do for money, will make you like it less and less. Jobs are just a means to the ends."
I haven't checked in a while, but I really did enjoy the videos Lucy Pyre did on her channel
she barely makes them anymore, 1 vid every 3 months or so, and then its a 10:01 shill for her most recent sponsor deal.
This video feels like a stream of random, constantly flowing thoughts without any further dissection into any particular thought bubble. Just constantly moving with only a paragraph of defense given. Nonetheless, here is what I, a random Internet guy thinks
Her thoughts on the future of vtubing being more focused on high quality videos rather than streaming I feel won't come true to a high chance and her using letsplay as a comparison is a bad comparison
If you look at how let's plays are doing now, they're pretty okay. Of course, it doesn't have that same spark that made it special but it's still a thing, people still engage in it. Streaming was what made vtubers mainstream and it will continue to make it such. There's no radical change to be made in the following years, just the same things that you've always enjoyed
People are not just going to get tired of vstreaming, people will still flock to it. Obviously not you apparently but people will.
Her thoughts on vcorpos becoming obsolete on the coming years and the excessive negativity from chat I feel is just plain wrong. Yeah, the higher ups that started vtuber companies to cash in on the trend got their 💰 and are getting diminishing returns. Since they are unable to understand the real essence of what made them popular, they go bankrupt. So what? That happens when a trend is on; these things happen.
Overall, these thoughts obviously come from a western perspective and one that is biased towards indies. So hololive slipped and twisted their ankle and scrapped their arm, what about it? Their success is still going to up with all the new hype still ongoing. All the rumors rn are still rumours, plus even if there are true I highly doubt yagoo will make the mistake that CEOs are known to make considering being authentic and adorkable is kinda what made them popular
Niji is on life support but they'll manage. Unless half of their talents gets ousted for various allegations, people will still flock. IMO, they have best consistent talents, both old and new. I'm not that big of a niji fan but even my occasional toe dipping is enough to convince me
The normie comments from chat make no sense. My brother is christ, you are the normie. I'm also a normie! We are all normies
Her thoughts on the separation of idol culture and "twitch" culture is absolutely spot on and I agree 👍. I really think the separation happened when holoen gen1 dropped as well as people like ironmouse and nyanners with the rise of vshojo. I imagine it will go in the way of backrooms and liminal spaces, with idol culture being this niche interest that has a consistent fanbase and the other being this chaotic force that ebbs and flows
Her thoughts definitely come off as rambling and I feel that her perspective is quite narrow but it's still an educated one
The anycolor debacle was the start of the shift
ok after hearing this. this is more like being kind of a take thats... not quite gonna happen since honestly the idol thing is just gonna grow
Uruka and Airi are too big of a threat for Twitch's top girls.
Doomer pippa
Arise indies!
first
7th