How good is FRONTRUNNING after Wave 6? | Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Bagging got nerfed in Wave 6! Is frontrunning better now? How does it compare to bagging?
How to get Better at Mario Kart: • FULL Beginner Guide | ...
The final wave of the booster course pass just released, with new tracks, new shortcuts, and new characters. This is my first time using Funky Kong, Diddy Kong, Pauline, and Peachette online in worldwides. Playing on the courses Tour Rome Avanti, GCN DK Mountain, Wii Daisy Circuit, Piranha Plant Cove, Tour Madrid Drive, 3DS Rosalina's Ice World, SNES Bowser's Castle 3, and Wii Rainbow Road.
Bagging: waiting near last place for good items (bullet bill, shock/lightning, star, golden mushroom, mushrooms) and using them to make a comeback. This lets you get to 10 coins and stay away from attack items, and you can potentially dodge the shock or do item smuggling.
Running: actively trying to go forward and get to 1st place
Hey Shortcat Were You Always a fan of Bagging when you first started playing Mario Kart or you just like to frontrun the tracks as you play?
I hated bagging with a passion. I would frontrun the whole race and then get destroyed (on some tracks). Then i started paying attention. The person who could beat me in frontrunning on hyrule circuit was the same person who bagged and got 1st on cheese land.
Once i realized it wasnt actually luck, i tried it out. I was SO BAD at bagging, literally couldnt get better than 5th. The more i learned about it, the more i realized i just didnt like it because i didnt understand it. I thought it was different people getting lucky each time, but it was actually the same skilled players beating me with multiple strategies.
@@Shortcat321wow u used to be a twitter user...
Nah its one thing to hate the viability of bagging, we've all been there. Its another thing to bully others for bagging.
But using twitter??? I could never 💀💀
@@Shortcat321I don’t eant to ruin ur disguise but HELLO J PERM U TAUGHT ME HOW TO CUBE THXXXXX
I find Bagging really fun honestly. It's just fun getting decent items rather than coins
i just frontran to the comment section
Same!
Me too
BLUE SHELL
Who doesnt
the only time when a "first" is funny
I like how Nintendo handled the bagging nerf. Rear position comeback play still seems viable, but the most "degenerate" or "unintended" aspects, repeatedly driving into boxes cycling items, has been removed. Personally I think it makes bagging a little more exciting, because there's that extra bit of pressure to keep moving and make your comeback.
Yeah i agree. At first i felt like its a bad bagging nerf because bagging still works just fine. But now i appreciate that its just a way to make bagging and competitive play look less degenerate. Love or hate bagging, this is a good change
@@Shortcat321 Actually, this is a good way of looking at it - it changes how bagging is perceived, and affects the game's public perception, which you said is a real sticking point you have with bagging's presence in MK8DX.
That said, I have had a couple times where I genuinely just drove badly and stopped before items, or where I got hit by lightning just after a set (both in positions near the back) and the nerf now makes getting reasonable items impossible in those cases. Sure, they're edge cases, but both happened to me fairly naturally.
@@Shortcat321Also I think this nerf actually makes itel strategy even more important with bagging.
This might not make a difference for those that are really good at bagging, but I think it prevents people from just bagging without putting any thought in it.
Because before the nerf if you got an item that you didnt like you could just throw it away and drive into the item set again.
That way you had to way less careful with item usage, while now if you use an item to early instead of holding it for shortcuts for instace increases the danger of getting a bad item without being able to rectofy the situation by just cycling through items at an item set.
Deciding when to chain, use and hold has become way more important which I like a lot because to me that is what makes bagging interesting in terms of game mechanics.
@@klop4228 I mean, that just sounds like an exciting new way to get karted. Yeah it sucks when you're the one getting karted, but it's also kinda what separates Mario Kart from other racing games like F-Zero.
Honestly, I believe that Nintendo's solution to bagging is actually pretty elegant. I think most people dislike bagging because seeing people stop in the middle of races and wait at item sets isn't exactly their idea of a racing game. However, "bagging" where you take worse lines in order to pick up more coins or take alternate paths that are slower but have coins or items while still moving forward on the track is perfectly fine, since you're still going forwards at the very least. In fact, I'm not completely sure yet, but I feel like this change could make a lot of the "useless" alternate paths (like the underwater section on daisy cruiser) a far more appealing choice which would be cool to see. You could drop to a lower position while remaining safe and farming coins, while keeping the most exciting part of bagging where you make the comeback intact.
14:20
I think nerfing bagging deliberately without affecting those that are genuinely struggling in a race, as Nintendo seemed to aim for, was the right move. It discourages playing poorly on purpose but still gives a chance for people that are worse/unlucky
Shortcat has made me return to mario kart after 4 years and the past few months have been so fun!
Yea sure buddy
You maybe arent lying but i aint buyin it
Glad to hear you’re having fun!
@@Kakkemansim not lying but believe what you want to believe
@@Bryan-yf5yqthanks
They made nerfing bagging about making people move forward and actually try to race, not about removing the possibility of using good items at the back to get to the front, and I think that's perfect
12:00 - 12:35 let's just say on a bike, peachettes hitbox gets nerfed.
Edit: nerfed meaning it’s easier to get hit
Its pretty evident that she gets a buff on bikes and atvs. Pretty big actually 🤤
Nah I think her hitbox on a bike should be twice as big, if you know what I mean
@@unbound195 but that's just what they're saying
@@imagebear8916 I added more, and let me just say she should be Bowser heavy. 4.7
hm. are you talking about her ahh?
Hi Shortcat! I’ve been enjoying your content for a while now and I would really look forward to a video where you rank all the tracks. It would be fun to see your point of view about what tracks are the most fun, best looks and have the most fun strats. Either way, I wish you the best of luck!
Great idea, that'd be awesome to see!
Ive been planning on this! I still need to get to know the wave 6 tracks better, and lose the "new track" bias before ranking them.
@@Shortcat321Yessss!!!! I'm very looking forward to that holy
@@Shortcat321i love how you respond to your comments man. appreciate u for the good content
I think Nintendo handled bagging pretty well. Focusing on stopping and reversing. Think it getting tweaked for single or double item boxes pulls
"spoilers for Infinity War" was legitimately the funniest thing edit ever
I didn't get it
It was fr
True
"frontrunning is broken." you mean playing the game?
No.
Playing the game is both frontrunning and bagging
something i feel like no one talks about is how much the idea of "driving badly on purpose" actually changed with the optics vs reality. stopping at an item set is definitely "driving badly on purpose" and looks horrible to the average person, but on the other hand you're still trying to take good lines when you actually are driving and the bagging part is more like a pause in your "normal" driving, but now that you can't bag that way it seems like the ideal way to stay in the back of the pack when bagging is just taking worse lines on purpose, which is just as much "driving badly on purpose" if not moreso than stopping at item sets. whether the improvement in optics is a big enough to outweigh that depends on your viewpoint i guess.
what i really wish they did was make being in the middle of the pack less of a death sentence, that way you'd be much less incentivized to bag every time you got hit and the binary of bagging and frontrunning was less prominent in favor of just playing the game "normally". often in worldwides i get in rooms where a few of the players in the room are enough better than me that i can't really frontrun reasonably, but because being in the middle is so terrible it feels like i'm forced to bag if i want to get a decent position. the middle of the pack attack items in this game are just way too hard to avoid and punishing to get hit by and i'm pretty bummed that they didn't do a single thing to fix that with all of their balance changes.
Yeah id love for a nerf to attack items, or a decrease in probability. I wonder if they didnt want to affect the normal gameplay too much.
@@Shortcat321 i think they just want mario kart to be really chaotic, and that certainly accomplishes that. that race in the other video where you dodged an entire fire flower just to get hit anyway really shows how impossible it is to avoid getting hit in the middle of the pack. maybe making it so getting hit by certain items only makes you lose one coin, or not completely lose all of your speed like with bananas in double dash would be ways they could fix it, but i'm not sure they even know it's a problem, let alone want to fix it
@@Magnemite_ I've thought about something similar, having spin-out items (except for shock perhaps) not cause you to drop coins. I think your idea of losing 1 coin is better though
Wait when you put bagging like that it sounds like basically Mario Kart 7 Bagging
...hey this is basically Mario Kart 7 Bagging
The part about peachette on a bike killed me 😂😂
Facts
Still dont get it
@@Anyone1338 It's because shes in a tight jumpsuit and you get a rear view and people are weird 😭😭
Reminded me of Rod's recent Peachette video where he kept talking about how he had to keep his eyes up lol
I get it, I just don't agree. I'm sticking with Daisy.
Landship + Wood tires is a slick looking combo. I’ve always liked using it with Baby Luigi, but now I’m intrigued with trying Diddy on it…
I always wondered if theres a tierlist somewhere in which tracks are better to frontrun or bag. Or somewhere in between
He's already posted a few videos about it. Not particularly as "top tracks to frontrun/bag" but he has already mentioned a few of them
I think a more competitive player than myself would be able to make this. I know the top frontrunning and bagging tracks but i couldnt rank the stuff in the middle. But basically just count the shortcuts that you need a speed item for. More/bigger shortcuts = better bagging track.
Hi shortcat Ur videos always make my day !! Can u maybe do a frozen challenge? With only like christmasy related charcters on ice tracks? :D
There are no christmas themed characters in the game. And if he were to only show off races on ice tracks he would have to record hours of video material given that they make up only a small percentage out of all the tracks and thus show up pretty rarely.
I meant like ice charcters like Rosalina or using black yoshi or shy guy to be penguins and like play with friends or fans
@@daire-eo4kk Rosalina is not an ice character. Her theme is space and stars and in Mario Galaxy (where she originated) there was no Rosalina's ice world. Any planet would fit her theme, so her "planet track" being an ice planet does not say much. As for the penguins there are already the real ones in snow land and black yoshi (being a dinosaur) would look pretty weird next to them.
20:14 I feel like there was no warning for the red shell because you intercepted a red shell that was targeting the peachette
9:17 diddybuggy is undoubtedly an awesome name for that combo
The argument of frontrunning vs bagging is like punching a brick wall, just do what you wanna do!
To answer that question 20:22, I believe it's neither of the options and rather watch a player that can adapt their way of playing the game during a race. It's just really interesting to see a sudden change of playstyle midrace that will help you reach better spots if not 1st place.
"hey bb"
"was that your greenshell bb"
- Shortcat
Well, well, well, if it isn't the bagging guy 😏
I bet you're really SAD 😿 that you have to actually PLAY THE GAME NOW huh? 🤣
You say bagging 🧳 "takes skill", but I'll let you know I beat my little brother by bagging and I didn't even practice any tracks! Bet you can't explain that, huh mr. "Cheat Cat" 🤷♂️
I have 10k VR and I could easily DESTROY those try hard baggers online 😎 I stopped playing because baggers would always beat me though, so I'm glad I can go back to the game now 😊
Anyway, enjoy having to learn how to RACE 🏃♂️ in a RACING 🏎️ GAME🏁!!!
If you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go outside to touch some grass - something you'll never know the feeling, because Mario Kart 🍄 is your WHOLE PERSONALITY 😂
LMAOOO love your comments toko
@@Shortcat321
been frontrunning since the game came out ‼️‼️🗣️🗣️
Same. I've never bagged
Hi shortcat! i love your videos and always look forward to them :) i would love to see a video where u rank the tracks/make a tier list of the tracks that u think are the most fun to play/looks the best etc
Bagging is ok. Frontrunning is also ok. If you don't like how people play online, stick to single player.
shortcat: “only bagging = bad player, pick the right option for your scenario”
also shortcat with 20 videos on bagging only:
That was my bad player era
@@Shortcat321 😯 Is sweat cat going to not only make a return, but also a long stay!? *Hype
Yeah I'm actually glad that bagging was nerfed in Wave 6, as cool as those comebacks were on paper, and as many views as they typically got, slowing down in the middle of a race to win was kind of lame to watch, even if it was necessary in that case to win. Speaking personally.
I use Peachette on a bike...
Average mario kart player moment
Weirdo
A Shortcat video is the best way to recover from getting my wisdom teeth removed! 😁
Congratulations!
Hope your teeth are okay. I always cheer myself up with a good ol watch of Shortcat
Congrats!
Why are you congratulating? 💀💀💀💀
I think that was also beautiful to see people stopping in boxes to take good items. I would probably buff frontrunning by adding the chance to receive single mushroom in first place. That would give u the chance of mantain your lead but do not making it impossible for bagging players ;P
How do peachette players race so well with only one hand I don't get it
LMAO
.
What a weirdo
It's a special skill that only us Peachette mains know.
@@Elfilinfan 🤢
I think the way nintendo handled the bagging changes was actually really good. It basically made it so you cant intentionally bag as easily, but it still allows for comebacks, which is honestly the best of both worlds.
I do however wish that cheese land wasn't an option in higher level play
"Saying that you're just bagging or just front running means you're probably not a good player", _Shortcat says in the video where he is only frontrunning._
He's doing it for a video that's the difference
In wave 6 basically you can frontrun or backrun.
You keep going forward and depending on your position you can comeback.
I actually enjoyed bagging but I understand nintendo's decision
It's very simple IMO any strategy in a RACING game that benefits from stopping or going backwards should be worse then any strategy that involves ACTUALLY racing forward.
Exactly
i'm just watching the funny mario kart man and he hits me with the "peachette on a bike" gem, immediately followed up with a quick lesson on confirmation bias when watching bagging content on youtube wtf?!
What did he mean by the peachette on a bike thing? I watched him explain but i didnt get it 😅
From what I observed people definitely like bagging when they do it themselves, but give it hate when a bagger causes them to get mario karted
I always felt this too. but after i learned this game more i realized most of my "get mario karted" moments were on snes mario circuit 3, mario kart stadium, and riverside park. Then it all made sense and i stopped frontrunning those tracks.
I think bagging tracks as a concept is weird, but once you understand it you can stop blaming the baggers and start taking control of your own fate.
hearing the "try using peachette on a bike" comment hurts me physically as someone who does indeed use peachette on a bike
Average mario kart player moment
@@Shortcat321i didnt know she was viable until very recently its not my fault i swear
Weirdo
Finally someone from Cyprus, my country, in your videos! :')
I've noticed sometimes you do a short hop right before a glider section, does that have any purpose?
Also, bagging was way too strong. Good items + free coins + not getting hit. Why should any racing game have you win by... not racing? Also, I suck at bagging so I'm biased lol
wait shortcat are you j perm?
Yes
He is
He is
For someone who claims they're glad they nerfed bagging, you sure do talk about it a lot. Even in unrelated videos.
...and?
@@Shortcat321 Kinda shows you did kinda care about it. Otherwise it'd be like, oh hey, they nerfed bagging, anyways.
@@LanClanKillaI strongly agree
Mario Kart is not a pure racing game, but more of a racing themed party game and as such I think bagging has a legit place in it. If you want it to be a pure racer then items don't have a place in the game at all.
If people want to race with no items, and just want pure driving skill, there's a whole genre out there for them: it's called Racing Simulator
I mean, it is a kart racing game, which Wikipedia describes the genre as differentiating itself through "over the top" gameplay. A protagonist miraculously winning the race after getting sabotaged or broken or is way behind the others through a combination of sheer skill & luck is pretty on brand
I do agree that bagging needed a nerf, and I personally don’t feel like what Nintendo did to nerf it wasn’t very effective, but I also don’t know how else they could have nerfed bagging more effectively. Bagging is an unintended side effect of Nintendo’s efforts to help keep worse performing casual players feeling involved in the game. Giving the players in last a comeback mechanic, for casual play at least, keeps the game dynamic and enjoyable for families and groups of friends across a range of skill levels. And I don’t know how Nintendo could more effectively nerf bagging without negatively impacting casual play as well. If the competitive Mario Kart scene wants to eliminate bagging, they’d have to do what competitive Smash Bros did and remove either items at all or a large number of courses from competition. And if you do that, it’s not Mario Kart anymore. It’s any other racing game.
Bagging feels weird and it’s more powerful than I think anyone would like it to be, but in order for Mario Kart to STAY Mario Kart, it’s a necessary part of the game.
Something I've found that makes the half pipe boost mostly consistent for me on Wii Rainbow Road, I aim for the top left corner of the blue panel. Still practicing getting it consistent, but every time I get a good alignment I get the boost, so could be useful in practicing learning it. =P
12:30 why did bro say that
I think Nintendo severely overtuned the anti-bag, when I'm in bottom spots from just taking bad lines or being bit I'll get quad shrooms an unreasonable amount, no stars or goldens or bills until I get to like 8th
I was kinda iffy with the bagging concept, because it felt like cheating. It sucks that when you try so hard to be in first or at least ahead of the pack, you see one or more players pass you at the last second and take that win from bagging. Now that I reached a higher level VR, I understand the strategy a bit more. When you get hit sooo many times where you go from first to the middle-last of the pack, it’s better to go below 9th place to get comeback items and coins
Hi J perm, hope you're doing well. Just asking do you plan to upload any cubing contents again soon ? I would appreciate if you do
I really like how nintendo dealed with bagging because it doesn't stop cool comebacks but nerfs staying in the same place trying to get a good item.
I think the thing that makes bagging look good is when everyone else *isn't* bagging. It's easy to like it when everyone else is "honorably" racing. But when it becomes the meta, and like half the group is still at the first item block line it's just like 😐. It's really cool to learn that it can be used strategically, and I think having maps that make bagging harder tosses up the game.
My issue with your argument is you're kinda conflating strategic play with cheesing the game's systems. When you get knocked back, getting coins and being more careful with item use timing is standard play, and hanging back just to get the best and stack the deck feels disingenuous. The former leads to a comeback, but the latter doesn't feel like a comeback and doesn't bring the same excitement because of the manufacturing of it, at least to me. Getting rid of bagging would be nice, and I don't consider strategic use of items to be bagging because, like I said, it's moreso just a careful and more precise play then what the people at front need to do. It's more a defensive vs offensive play at that point, rather than just building up a sandbag fort.
This is very subjective. Why does stopping feel disingenuous but hanging back when in the back not feel disingenuous? If i want to be in the back to improve my chances, is it cheesy to slow down but not cheesy to play recklessly and get hit by an item and then play from the back?
If i think my best shot to win is to be in the back, i will go to the back. I dont think it matters how i get there if going there is my intention
@ShroomlessShortcat By that argument, why does stopping on the start look stupid but not hanging back when getting hit does? Like I said, it mostly stems from the complete stop and break that feels more engineered rather than being careful and playing defensively after being knocked down. In a race with items, purposefully sitting at the start doesn't lend to the feeling of a race for the back people or the front people, so it lends to a break on what Mario Kart the game is meant to be. I'm not saying the only way to play is recklessly rushing as far to the front as you can after getting hit, but the strategy between taking a longer path, making sure to get coins, and using items at more oportune times is less bagging and more how Mario Kart should be played as opposed to full stopping at the beginning of a race just to get better item calculations and brute forcing a way to front there. Moreso I feel like there's a disconnect between how the game was meant to be played and what was the optimized way to win, so I like the nerf focusing on trying to force people to move because a racing game incentivising people to stop feels counter to the nature of the game.
Hey I am a speedcuber and you sound an awful lot like jperm... I was wondering what happened to your channel?
He is probably not coming back because of how successful this channel is:((
btw he is jperm
Black Yoshi (Pax) = rival
Black Birdo (BB) = rival
Who next? 🤔
Black shy guy 🤨🤔
Black Inkling? 🤔
Never had much of a problem with baggers, but if I had to say I'm glad it was nerfed. Means more people might play the track, lol
12:00 to 12:35 I freaking can't dude.... I can't stop laughing it's sooo.... HHAHAHAHA
Not funny
How insane is it that after all the random strats to win, you landed on the term "Running" to indicate you want to be first. Did you mean racing? Are you re-defining racing? What is going on
Could you maybe do a video on how to play when racing with amateurs? Because they play the game completely differently to anyone who knows what they're doing (ie. always throwing shells/bananas instead of using them as defense, using mushrooms to speed up instead of taking shortcuts etc). Could be interesting, maybe as part of the advanced guide?
I feel like its way easier to play with lower level players. items can get more chaotic, but frontrunning and bagging both work better than usual because everyone else is destroying each other at the cost of their own safety. The only thing i do differently is stay farther from trail items and the super horn because they WILL hit me with it.
But theres no situation where a player would perform better in a higher level room due to play style. If you struggle against players at a certain level, then you are at the same level as them.
@@Shortcat321 Thanks, that actually makes a lot of sense. You did just expose me though, turns out I’m also still a total noob lol
I've always been a frontrunner, relying on a crutch feels cheap no matter how viable it may be overall/on certain tracks.
I feel a lot more satisfied after a race if I used map awareness and item priorities in first to win.
Ikr bagging just feels like you aren’t good at the game and trying to find cheap ways to win
@@MatthewMerengue I mean, on tracks where bagging is strong, bagging instead of running is literally being good at the game, considering “good at a game” is understanding it and being able to frequently win. You can think it’s cheap / a gimmick but it’s clearly something a lot of good players do lol
Im all for calling it weird or degenerate or not in the spirit of the game, but cheap implies it doesnt take much or its easy. Its not easy to consistently get a good result by bagging. Every time i lose when bagging i can think of several decisions i could have made better. When i lose by frontrunning, its actually just red shells or blue shells which are completely luck based.
@@Shortcat321 To be fair with running too, even if you get hit by 3 reds or something you can always ask yourself "could I have driven better enough that I still could have won?". Both methods of play have significantly higher skill ceilings then people give credit for, which is why you can run into players so good they seemingly never lose (whether they're bagging or running). But for sure bagging is not free/cheap.
@@Shortcat321 I get you man and I'm not saying it isn't a legitimate strat. for ME it feels cheap.
What you say about decision making and what I could've done better is how I see my failures with front running. At the end of the day it's the game Ninty has made and we as players can choose how we go at it.
Personally I think that the best way to nerf bagging would have been to change the items that you get in the top spots. Like adding a small chance of getting a mushroom in first and triple mushrooms in 2nd and 3rd. Even though I don't like the way Nintendo nerfed bagging It is good to see them responding to their community.
Bagging sucks. It should not be a viable strategy to park on an item box and then win BECAUSE of it. I think back of the pack items should be game changingly strong, enough to facilitate a comeback, but that should only ever be a charity given to people ACTUALLY in the back of the pack, either due to lower skill or bad luck.
Which means it's just default super hard to balance. How do you make items good enough for 12th place to stand a chance, but not good enough for 1st place to want to start in 12th? And I have no solutions.
I got into mario kart through your content, more specifically your bagging videos and I loved it (it made me want to get Nintendo switch online). I loved bagging and constantly wanted to do it and do better with it so that’s why I was appalled (I feel like that’s a strong word but I don’t know any other way to describe it) when I saw that bagging was nerfed. All my practice, all the fun, just cut down. It felt so much better to get first after taking every shortcut on a track and coming back to a top spot to win rather than sitting in first all race. I’d rather lose bagging than get a podium position front running badly. Bagging takes so much more skill than people realise and it adds more variety to the game so honestly I think that bagging should’ve stayed how it was :/
Also 21:52 that one sibling at the family dinner
Imagine that....being in first place in a racing game is a good strategy. Thanks for that genius advice.
20:31 that touches on why I dislike bagging in general yes its very fun to see big comebacks and clutch plays but its also very annoying (to me personally) to be doing well in a race and then just get destroyed by rng cause someone pulled good items. Im aware its a skill issue on my part (at least a fair amount of it is) I'm not good at this game but bagging and broken items has let me get solid placements in races I had no business placing well in.
5:39 "Frontrunning is so broken now after wave 6!"
Such a weird sentence for a racing game, Mario Kart might be the only game where it doesn't sound like you're stating the obvious.
Here's my two cents on bagging: its bad not because it rewards luck and punishes skill, but because it rewards skills that have no right to be in a racing game while punishing the intended skills and strategies. Its a racing game. The goal should be to get to the front and stay in the front with the best lines and item play. Bagging turns that on its head, where you intentionally stay in the back then make a push to the front near the end. Bagging turns a racing game into an rts game, which isnt what most people are looking for nor to they find it enjoyable.
Mario Kart is NOT a conventional racing game. Items are a main feature in Mario Kart, and almost surely it wouldn't be popular without items, so hating on bagging because "you're doing what you're not supposed to do in a racing game" is completely wrong. Since the first game of the saga, Mario Kart has always given better items to who's in the back to catch up, so making right use of the items to get the win IS playing Mario Kart. If you don't want to see baggers just play Gran Turismo or any other racing game without gimmicks that help who's in the back.
If bagging wasn't in the game, then there'd be no point to even continue trying if you finish lap 1 anywhere lower than 7th place. If everyone knows the best lines to take, and you're behind all those people, than you aren't gonna win. Once you get to a top spot, you can ditch any semblance of strategy and racing becomes a single player game, where the goal is to take the best lines and possible shortcuts. Also, bagging helps kart diversity. Mini-turbo and speed are the number 1 and number 2 best stats respectively. Without bagging, speed becomes worthless.
Once everyone realizes this, they'll min-max their builds to give them the most mini-turbo while sacrificing all other stats as little as possible. And once the "best" build is figured out, no one will run anything else. Then how are you supposed to pass someone when you're both running the exact same kart and taking the exact same lines. If we both drive 20 mph in a straight line, but you start ahead of me, obviously you're going to stay ahead of me. That's why bagging has to be possible in at least some fashion, otherwise Mario Kart gets boiled down to front-running until someone hits you with an attack item that drops you from 1st place to 3rd or 4th, and then disconnecting because you aren't gonna climb back up to 1st anymore without good items.
Tbf, the related skills to bagging are the same skills to race to the front (?) (not knowledgeable on it, maybe untrue). And the goal of "bagging" is to get to the front too, just using a more optimal way situationally. At least imo, what shortcat's been saying is pro players only bag when the situation calls for it and if it's the more sure way of getting to the front, aka a plan B. Cause sometimes it's better to step back a bit and go another route than blindly running in the storm. All depends on trade offs, similar to frontrunning from 1st backing down to avoid a blue shell or pushing through cause it's not worth it. Tbh, I think the problem is that the backside items are too OP compared to other middle & front items, probably gotta add more items or ways to defend against back items. Idk though, not an expert on that.
Unrelated, I think what Shortcat was trying to get to on at 14:42 is that bagging is good for content and "INSANE" clips/moments, so Nintendo doesn't want to take it away completely. *Kart racing games* as a subgenre differentiates itself by what Wikipedia refers as "over the top" gameplay after all, and a protagonist miraculously winning the race by skill & luck even though they were so many laps behind the others or were sabotaged and broken would be a great example of "over the top" imo.
Edit: wow so many replies appeared as I was typing this huh lol. I kinda feel sorry for the original comment though. Anyways, the above is also just my "two cents", no hard feelings.
You make good points and I'd like to revise my claim.
I dont hate bagging, nor do I think catch-up mechanics are bad, honestly bagging is a guilty pleasure for me. Catch-up mechanics are critical to the fun and success of any game and Mario Kart is no exception. I just personally think they are a little too critical, and sometimes overshadow the racing part of the game.
@@onebear6504 No hard feelings, this is what happens when you put your opinion on the Internet. Thanks for keeping it civil though :]
So trying to get to first place, and using good items to catch up if you're behind. That's not "running" or "bagging" that's... Playing mario kart.
What helps me essentially front run is item management. Knowing when to defend n attack is key to winning
Yep. This!
First
Indeed you were
I like the way they nerfed it, you can’t camp at items sets(but bagging is still somewhat viable) and I’ve head races in cheese land, mc3, and other similar tracks post wave 6 where there isn’t much bs things that happen, and now more people are playing the game the way it was intended
I think nintendo didn’t really nerfed bagging, they just made it harder because you cannot stop to chain items, which i think is a clever approach because you got to balance the competitive but still make the five year old playing with his family win with a bullet and golden mushroom so that he doesn’t cry. I would have personally nerfed bagging online where the total wr of the room is very high, by making the better items more rare, but this is just my take on it.
I don’t want to get involved in your personal info but will you give up jperm because the cubing community is missing you but I thing this is good for you 👍
Hey Shortcat,
Are you Jperm, the cubing youtuber?
I noticed that the jperm vids started slowing down exactly 7 months ago, when the first shortcat channel vid was posted. You are also both canadian as well as in an old jperm vid they solved 6 cubes while still getting first on rainbow road and they exibited good knowledge of the game so I was just wondering?
(also I know that vid was done on the wii)
He is jperm
I personally love bagging and the EPIC comebacks! But if they were going to need it I’m glad that it was in a way that encourages moving forward.
I don't care about bagging, I just want happy videos again. Here you just sound upset :(
Thanks for the feedback!
As a lightweight player, most the time i opt to stay behind the pack once i get hit out to avoid getting hit and collect coins because having 10 coins with 1 speed isnt as slow as you think, along side that getting bumped off the map. I always decide to catch up when the opportunity is available, mostly mid lap 2 and it works out for me mostly all the time. Idk if that makes me a bad player or not but i rather keep myself safe than sorry
What is everyone’s teir list for wave 6 track and/or characters
in my opinion, in a racing game people shouldn't be stopping for items, but if i could remove bagging i would just so i could make the bagging tracks not so miserable to front run, but at the end of the day a comeback is a comeback and it's so hype
I only hate bagging when everyone does it. Like its really stupid seing 12 people just standing still at the item set. And i loved to watch your bagging because its so exciting. I mean when you frontrun all y get is a coin and a banana, when you bag you stars, mushrooms, and get to be a giant angry bullet.
After 1 year not playing the game, I discovered your videos and started playing again. You're a funny guy and nice listening to - and your expertise of the game helps me improve!
I'd never actually thought about how I would nerf Bagging but I feel like I wouldn't have came up with the single Banana or Green Shell in 12th idea.
Also 16:13 was great.
Guy makes comeback on average track, people: "nice comeback man"
Guy purposefully slows down then makes comeback: "woah hey that's cheating"
It's actually so stupid that people hate baggers. Most tracks in the game reward running so baggers literally put themselves at a disadvantage if they're always doing it. If you find yourself getting beat by a bagger over and over, it is not because they are cheating, it is because they are *better then you*. Literally every player that is actually good at the game understands this.
Hey shortcat! I love your vids, but also I have a question that you probably get asked a lot but I don’t see it anywhere on your channel. Are you J-Perm? You sound like him, the time that he took a break is very similar to the time your channel popped up, and he was very interested in Mario cart.
Shortcat: "Am I upset they nerfed bagging? tch , no... nope. I'm not upset... I'm not, really!" *blasted by red shell* "I. AM. NOTTT!"
In regard to bagging, I think people like comebacks because they’re exciting but watching a bunch of players huddle around item boxes all trying to bait out bullets is cringe inducing. It also made me not want to play the game online. I only played online at wave 6.
Well put!
Bagging is intentionally staying or going into last place to get last place items. If you’re front running but you either mess up or get badly destroyed and end up last that’s not bagging.
I always keep my red shells but since im in the 10k vr range people keep throwing their red shells and its so annoying
Also i wave 5 bagged to the comment section
Yeah it can ruin your race and also their race cause they lose their defense or get blue shelled now that they are in 1st. But i still like my chances way more than in a 20k+ room!
The concept of front running being broken is like, you mean if you hold the go button and you drive well you win? That's crazy lol. This isn't anything against Shortcat specifically, I just mean its weird that bagging got so pervasive that we needed a term for playing the game as intended
Black birdo is my fav character, we love to see her winning
Yeah!
Hey Shortcat,
Can you try my combo?
👇
Shy guy (White)
Wigller
The best wheels
Cloud glider.
Hey Shortcat! I think at 20:08 you see the SLIGHTEST red shell warning on the left side of the screen. They did you so dirty 😭👌🏼😂
Hey shortcat can you explain why you hold the coin so long, does it help with speed or? I dont understand why-
You cannot get 2 coins at once, so if you're in 1st and will only get a single item box, it's better to already be holding a coin to guarantee a defense item
That makes sende
sense*
Shortcat, have you noticed a weird discrepancy in item distribution since 3.0? I've seen a LOT more triple shells and triple mushrooms than power items, middle of the pack feels so weak and impossible to keep 10 coins atm.. Maybe it's because your videos are slowly raising the average ability of the 10-20k players and I'm just being target sniped a lot more, but it feels like playing defensive is so useless because of the amount of triple reds people get right now. Maybe I'm delusional?
Also your videos are such a staple of my week, thank you for your constant uploads
I have sometimes felt like my item pulls are weird, but I'm also just thinking about my item pulls a lot more since my video topics are on that. If I had to guess, no change like this happened and we're just noticing the already-inconsistent item system.
And wow inward drift on DK mountain sounds rough! If you had a mushroom I wonder if it could be worth it to stop, A+B to turn, and mushroom off the cut
With the dk.mountain inside drift gap jump I made a video on my other channel. I don’t like to promote my channel on others but since you need help
When I played with four people recently I was seeing some pretty crazy item pulls. There were several first place triple mushrooms, golden mushrooms, and even bullets. I also pulled a coin in last multiple times.
It needed to be nerfed. The amount of players not moving forward because they can pull better items was always a turn off. I'm all for comebacks, but I'm also for racing forward in general.
To me, I see two ways of bagging: intentional (or planned) and unintentional (or unplanned).
I define intentional bagging as when you purposefully hang back at the start to get good items. You are making a conscious decision to bag.
Meanwhile, I define unintentional bagging as when you bag because you feel you have no choice because of a variety of factors, such as you fell of the track at a bad time, or you got hit by a red shell in like 3rd or 4th and now you drop to like 8th or 9th. At that point, you might as well start bagging.
There are people here that can explain this better than me, but the point is there are different ways to bag. You can bag because the track heavily favors it or you can bag because you were in a bad spot and need to get up quickly. People bag in normal races all the time. Whether it’s planned or not depends on the situation you’re in.
I think instead of nerfing bagging they should make it so that you can get mushrooms in first place, because then you can still take shortcuts and it will be more fun overall. I don't know if anyone agrees but that's just my opinion :)
Now that you did bagging and front-running only who is more fun?
Bagging is more fun when it works, running is more fun on average (partially because i win more)
I like bagging as a comeback mechanic. Sometimes you get comboed and its better to drop out.
I don't like it when everyone bags the first two laps because only lap 3 matters.