I'm grateful for this as I've been offered one of these rigs with a non working display. Now I know how much work and how difficult the project could be.
.I replaced my fluorescent tube with a 12V LED strip, removed the inverter and the large coil. The dimmer switches to ground, you only need two resistors to ground, for dimming and without, completely sufficient and simple, now full light again and power consumption decreased in receive mode.
Wow great video thanks for sharing. I've been searching for any reports regarding burned smell of TS850S and found by acciden this video. Right after I opened my TS850S and checekd the Carrier pcb... all capacitors were leaking and needs to be changed.
Hi Peter, good video. This video brings into the light (again) the need for the customer to put pressure on manufactures to improve their parts quality and to take repairs to a repair shop with experience in these type of repairs. If unsure ask someone and talk to the shop tech. Good one. 73
Wow what a mess...Those caps are eating that radio away slowly....Hope the owner manages to get it sorted...Another great video thanks for taking the time to publish...cheers
Wow Peter, that one is in terrible shape. You know it is not really as bad seeing radios like this. We know it will happen. The sad part is that folks do not have the knowledge to look for problems like this. Us technicians do but the casual operator has no clue that their radio is slowly being eaten away by leaky capacitors. This is why videos like this are so important to the general public. So they can understand what is going on. You remember how bad the TS-50 I had was. Thanks for another great video my friend 73 Buddy
Good to have repair technician like yourself. These days ppl are becoming zombies due to manufacturing done by robots. Furthermore electronic failure rates are high, due to poor production. Sadly no more Japan electronics imported in EU. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and upload.
Peter good to see you got the radio working. Although the radio still has a lot of problems I hope you are able to save the radio for the long term. Good advice about not attempting to repairing something beyond your skill level. As usual look forward to your next video. Robert.
Another great video Peter. I see so much destruction like this caused by bad caps it's really sad. A shame it wasn't caught in this radio before it got so bad. Mike
Hi Mike, yeah you are right there is so much destruction caused by bad caps. It is a clear sign that this is consumer electronics they always using the cheap crap... Thanks for stopping by 73
+TRX Bench I have been considering switching to the newer type polymer SMD electrolytic capacitors when I do my own radios. For me price is of no consequence when it comes to quality. Would be interested to hear what you think about using polymer type caps. One of my Kenwood 940S' s has started to exhibit the dot problem and I figured I would recap the whole radio while I had it apart. Thought I might give the polymer caps a try.
well from a scientific point of view it is the most advanced electrolyte we have for the time being but we do not have long term experience with polymer caps. So not sure what to suggest. I think if it would be my radio I would use a high grade Panasonic series already for long time on the market and proofed behaviour.
Peter, Whether by chance or design, it seems like capacitors are a major source of built in obsolescence. I have to wonder if many of the radios we are using today will ever become collectable antiques. Any engineers out there that could develop a cap with high capacitance and long life span would become very rich overnight. Talented tech's like you will become more in demand as time passes. Please keep these great and helpful videos coming.
Hi Todd, well there are high performance caps out there just read the posting from pa4tim down below he is telling that he is in test gear repair and he never had a leaking cap. That shows clearly that for all ham radios cheap caps are used which won't last for long. For business gear it is totally different...Thanks for watching 73
Another great video! A lot of radios have time bombs inside them! I've replaced caps on my own TS-50S (luckily before any physical damage was done), and a local hams TS-450S and TS-850S, also luckily before too much damage was done. Even if you look after your radio, keep it clean and dust free... it can be slowly eaten away from the inside! I NEVER buy a secondhand radio without opening it up and inspecting for damage like this. 73 Michael VK5ZEA
That one is bad, but working again nice! Have one here from an fellow ham, it has the power drop problem, waiting for parts for that but already doing all the caps replacing before they will leak.(had some bad ones on car board already and one dead on the main unit) Keep your videos coming Peter, big thumbs up!
Ich habe aktuell auch gerade ein Problem mit dem Display , es waren viele Durchkontaktierungen zersetzt jedoch habe ich ein Betrachtungswinkel Problem damit , wenn man es wie aus deiner Kamera Position betrachtet sieht man nur schemenhaft und lückenbehaftet das Display , bei direkter gerader Betrachtung von vorne ist es vollständig aber auch nicht richtig , dreht man das Gerät um 90° nach links ist es komplett kontrastreich wie es sein soll. Ich finde auch keinen Schaltplan der zu diesem Display hier passt denn es sind einige Wiederstände auf dem Board die komische Werte haben beim messen so z.b ein angeblicher 1K hat genau 20K , wo her aber das , ich sage mal Polarisation Problem her kommt ? IC 3 finde ich auch in keinem Schaltplan und im Service Manual sind auf der Layout Seite zwar alle Bauteile enthalten nur im Display also der Schaltung fehlt hier alles Mögliche auch der 470F ist dort nirgend wo zu sehen. Hatte das schon mal wer mit dem Betrachtungswinkel Problem ?
Great video Peter! I'd be interested to hear what the owner decides to do...failing finding good replacement boards I think unfortunately that the rig is no economically repairable (always great to get a new radio!). 73 - Dino
Hi Dino, yes if we need to get a new board it is definitely economically lost..I can't get the answer in the moment as the OM is on holiday for 3 weeks. Thanks for comment all the best 73
Hi Peter !!! I have a TS-850 S and the problem it has on the display is very bright and the frequency is not visible, you know how to repair it. 73, Henry LU4DXU
I guess it pays to know all the known problems for each radio type. Someone needs to publish a book on all the known problems of the various radios. Cheers & 73 from W Rusty Lane K9POW in eastern Tennessee
o man i am scared to open up my TS450sAT the S-Meter is jumping or having spikes i don't here any thing odd over the speaker just the s-meter jumping i hope the caps have not been eating the PCB ....
Matt K You do not avoid bad news by not inspecting, you only delay the bad news and increase the likelihood of far worse news down the road. That said, when you know that a particular device has a reputation of premature death due to leaking capacitors and wish to preserve its operation then the best course of action is to go ahead and have them all replaced with high quality capacitors as soon as possible, ideally even before the first capacitor starts leaking, rather than waiting for the inevitable. Capacitors, even high quality capacitors, are reasonably inexpensive and the replacement is simple and straight forward if done before things leak, but becomes increasingly challenging and problematic the longer one waits after leakage has begun.
Peter a question from Spain, it would not be possible to replace that kind of capacitors for tantalum capacitors? Thank you for your great videos and your teachings.
Hi Julian, yes of course a lot of engineers using tantalum caps but not me. I still don't trust them although they have improved very much over the last decade. Thanks for stopping by. All the best and 73
Very nice repair. I wonder if the CFL is still available? I don't own that radio, but just curious. I know that there are miniature CFL's that have the bi-pin leads available, but the voltage might be an issue. Thanks for the video, and I think your XYL was talking in the room near the end of the video. 73...Dan w4mnc
So you don't use any solvent? I have used the fiberglass brushes but they are getting scarce. And you have to be reeal careful with them or you take to much.. Thanks for your answer
cheers another good repair video...do you know how long the replacement caps are expected to last assuming say you do this with a main brand like Panasonic or Nippon Chemi-Con?
Holy crap Peter the leakage on this board is worse than the last one. Is there any way you can stress a capacitor to leak? Might be an idea for a future video on capacitors and way they fail. Great video as always look forward to the next one.
That is right Tom very bad condition...No idea what can be done to stress a cap to leak and I don't know if it is a good idea as you may jeperrdize good caps too...Thanks for stopping by 73
T Komoski The only real stress you could subject them to is high temperatures (perhaps raising a 105C rated capacitor to 125C or even 150C+ to stress them) for an extended period to increase the internal pressure and then look for evidence of leakage or a change in their electrical characteristics (namely ESR and D/Q factor). But you may have to run a test like hat for weeks to get meaningful results. But that is not very practical when the capacitors are already in circuit. If they have already begun to leak then you can either look for telltale evidence of leakage or for changes in the ESR and D/Q values, which are the first values to show evidence of deterioration. The trouble is that capacitors have fairly wide manufacturing tolerances, so minor changes in those values are not necessarily obvious if they remain within the expected tolerance.
Another fine video, Peter. Shame all the damage those caps can cause. You would think there might be a chemical that could neutralize the acid and prevent further damage. 73 WB3BJU
Hi Donald, well if there is fresh leakage it might be possible but the problem with this radios is that the acid is already longer on the pcb and that means it is already in the board... Thanks for stopping by 73
Hi Robert, off Corsa that is possible and if it would be mine i would do so but in this case it would nötig Look proffesional... Thanks for watching 73
I am a TV Broadcast engineer by trade, but I also own and operate an outside broadcast company..... You would think they would come up with something better than leaky old electro's in this day and age. I recently had to recap 26 broadcast camera's as part of a maintenance program and more than 20% already had leaky caps at 5 years old. I had to ultrasonically clean every board and then bake them to dry them out before I was confident all the "cats piss" was gone.......to say I am sick of re-caping is an understatement !!!!
Hi, I think there are two reasons for problems like this. First they use really cheap components and scondly new products and early production. Thanks for comment 73
Using pulled Panasonic capacitors to recap a piece of equipment: Likely OK. Having an electrolytic (the gray one that you showed on the LCD side) from 1985!!! in your "good capacitors" box: FAIL.Using wire to secure the traces that broke off when removing or resoldering a component: OK.Soldering with acid core solder and not cleaning the acid flux afterwards: Huge FAIL. And count me in the group who thought these had VFDs. They do a remarkable job of simulating one.
There is a youtube video from a guy who uses UV ligjht to look for leaked acid from caps. I do not tried it myself yet, because I have never had a leaked cap in the gear I repair (only test and calibration instruments) Something to check in cases like this TRX, I had a secutest in for repair where someone replaced a relay and damaged a via. So the trace that was connected to the upper part of the via did not contact to the bottomtrace anymore. schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl/?p=259 the top 2 pictures, not much to see with the naked eye but I could see it using a microscope
Hi Fred, yes I know the method with UV light and I have a UV light in my lab for this purposes but the pcb needs to have an uv reflecting coating and that is unfortunately not always given but other than that is is a great method.. Thanks for watching 73
Indeed, you deserve 1000 thumbs up from me. I learned so much about the 850s. Thanks.
Great video and you do a very thorough job. Nice to see someone that cares about the work they do and makes it right.
Thank you 73
,
I'm grateful for this as I've been offered one of these rigs with a non working display. Now I know how much work and how difficult the project could be.
.I replaced my fluorescent tube with a 12V LED strip, removed the inverter and the large coil. The dimmer switches to ground, you only need two resistors to ground, for dimming and without, completely sufficient and simple, now full light again and power consumption decreased in receive mode.
@@hansbertram5435 Thanks for the information, I appreciate it.
Great video Peter. Sure hope the owner replaces those other caps.
Hi Paul, yeah I'm sure will when he is back from Holiday. Thanks for stopping by
Wow great video thanks for sharing. I've been searching for any reports regarding burned smell of TS850S and found by acciden this video. Right after I opened my TS850S and checekd the Carrier pcb... all capacitors were leaking and needs to be changed.
Glad that you liked it Özer! Thanks for watching 73
850 nin zayif tarafi Bende yaptim
Hi Peter, good video. This video brings into the light (again) the need for the customer to put pressure on manufactures to improve their parts quality and to take repairs to a repair shop with experience in these type of repairs. If unsure ask someone and talk to the shop tech. Good one. 73
Hi Larry, yes I agree better quality parts is a must...Thanks for watching.. 73
Wow what a mess...Those caps are eating that radio away slowly....Hope the owner manages to get it sorted...Another great video thanks for taking the time to publish...cheers
Hi, yeah that is always the same problem the acid is eating the pcb.. Thanks for stepping by! 73
Wow Peter, that one is in terrible shape. You know it is not really as bad seeing radios like this. We know it will happen. The sad part is that folks do not have the knowledge to look for problems like this. Us technicians do but the casual operator has no clue that their radio is slowly being eaten away by leaky capacitors. This is why videos like this are so important to the general public. So they can understand what is going on. You remember how bad the TS-50 I had was. Thanks for another great video my friend 73 Buddy
Hi Buddy, yes you are right, hope that this kind of videos help to prevent such damage a little bit.. Thanks for stopping by my friend. 73
Good to have repair technician like yourself. These days ppl are becoming zombies due to manufacturing done by robots. Furthermore electronic failure rates are high, due to poor production. Sadly no more Japan electronics imported in EU. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and upload.
Peter good to see you got the radio working. Although the radio still has a lot of problems I hope you are able to save the radio for the long term. Good advice about not attempting to repairing something beyond your skill level. As usual look forward to your next video. Robert.
Hi Robert, yeah that is the issue still many problems..but we will get it under control :^) Thanks for watching. 73
Another great video Peter. I see so much destruction like this caused by bad caps it's really sad. A shame it wasn't caught in this radio before it got so bad.
Mike
Hi Mike, yeah you are right there is so much destruction caused by bad caps. It is a clear sign that this is consumer electronics they always using the cheap crap... Thanks for stopping by 73
+TRX Bench
I have been considering switching to the newer type polymer SMD electrolytic capacitors when I do my own radios. For me price is of no consequence when it comes to quality. Would be interested to hear what you think about using polymer type caps. One of my Kenwood 940S' s has started to exhibit the dot problem and I figured I would recap the whole radio while I had it apart. Thought I might give the polymer caps a try.
well from a scientific point of view it is the most advanced electrolyte we have for the time being but we do not have long term experience with polymer caps. So not sure what to suggest. I think if it would be my radio I would use a high grade Panasonic series already for long time on the market and proofed behaviour.
Excellent video peter, thank you.
Peter, Whether by chance or design, it seems like capacitors are a major source of built in obsolescence. I have to wonder if many of the radios we are using today will ever become collectable antiques. Any engineers out there that could develop a cap with high capacitance and long life span would become very rich overnight. Talented tech's like you will become more in demand as time passes. Please keep these great and helpful videos coming.
Hi Todd, well there are high performance caps out there just read the posting from pa4tim down below he is telling that he is in test gear repair and he never had a leaking cap. That shows clearly that for all ham radios cheap caps are used which won't last for long. For business gear it is totally different...Thanks for watching 73
Another great video!
A lot of radios have time bombs inside them! I've replaced caps on my own TS-50S (luckily before any physical damage was done), and a local hams TS-450S and TS-850S, also luckily before too much damage was done.
Even if you look after your radio, keep it clean and dust free... it can be slowly eaten away from the inside!
I NEVER buy a secondhand radio without opening it up and inspecting for damage like this.
73 Michael VK5ZEA
Hi Michael, the Inspection is a good idea with all the demages er are facing . Thanks for stopping by. 73
Nice repair Peter, as always. I didn't realize these radios used a backlit LCD I assumed they were VFD's- because they look a bit like it! :)
Hi Alan, no wonder that is what I thought too, until I had my first display repair with this radio...Thanks for stopping by. 73
That one is bad, but working again nice! Have one here from an fellow ham, it has the power drop problem, waiting for parts for that but already doing all the caps replacing before they will leak.(had some bad ones on car board already and one dead on the main unit) Keep your videos coming Peter, big thumbs up!
Thank you Michael. Yes always a good idea to swap all out. 73
My ts850s display is too bright, and barely see frekuensi number, i've put Dim but same..any advise..?
Ich habe aktuell auch gerade ein Problem mit dem Display , es waren viele Durchkontaktierungen zersetzt jedoch habe ich ein Betrachtungswinkel Problem damit , wenn man es wie aus deiner Kamera Position betrachtet sieht man nur schemenhaft und lückenbehaftet das Display , bei direkter gerader Betrachtung von vorne ist es vollständig aber auch nicht richtig , dreht man das Gerät um 90° nach links ist es komplett kontrastreich wie es sein soll. Ich finde auch keinen Schaltplan der zu diesem Display hier passt denn es sind einige Wiederstände auf dem Board die komische Werte haben beim messen so z.b ein angeblicher 1K hat genau 20K , wo her aber das , ich sage mal Polarisation Problem her kommt ? IC 3 finde ich auch in keinem Schaltplan und im Service Manual sind auf der Layout Seite zwar alle Bauteile enthalten nur im Display also der Schaltung fehlt hier alles Mögliche auch der 470F ist dort nirgend wo zu sehen. Hatte das schon mal wer mit dem Betrachtungswinkel Problem ?
Great video Peter! I'd be interested to hear what the owner decides to do...failing finding good replacement boards I think unfortunately that the rig is no economically repairable (always great to get a new radio!). 73 - Dino
Hi Dino, yes if we need to get a new board it is definitely economically lost..I can't get the answer in the moment as the OM is on holiday for 3 weeks. Thanks for comment all the best 73
Hi Peter !!!
I have a TS-850 S and the problem it has on the display is very bright and the frequency is not visible, you know how to repair it. 73, Henry LU4DXU
Thanks for these videos - I have some capacitors ordered and I'm going to replace them on the carrier board on my mint 850SAT this weekend.
73
Hi, yeah, very good idea as this radios are really good beside the cap issue..Thanks for watching 73
hi i have a s meter reading of an s 4 with no antemnna conected when i turn on my TS850S THANKS DE ZS5GMW
I guess it pays to know all the known problems for each radio type. Someone needs to publish a book on all the known problems of the various radios. Cheers & 73 from W Rusty Lane K9POW in eastern Tennessee
o man i am scared to open up my TS450sAT the S-Meter is jumping or having spikes i don't here any thing odd over the speaker just the s-meter jumping i hope the caps have not been eating the PCB ....
Hi Matt, no way open it as soon as possible to avoid a complete damage... Thanks for feed-back 73
Matt K You do not avoid bad news by not inspecting, you only delay the bad news and increase the likelihood of far worse news down the road. That said, when you know that a particular device has a reputation of premature death due to leaking capacitors and wish to preserve its operation then the best course of action is to go ahead and have them all replaced with high quality capacitors as soon as possible, ideally even before the first capacitor starts leaking, rather than waiting for the inevitable. Capacitors, even high quality capacitors, are reasonably inexpensive and the replacement is simple and straight forward if done before things leak, but becomes increasingly challenging and problematic the longer one waits after leakage has begun.
I have a TS 680s. Would it be the same issue? Cheers
Peter a question from Spain, it would not be possible to replace that kind of capacitors for tantalum capacitors?
Thank you for your great videos and your teachings.
Hi Julian, yes of course a lot of engineers using tantalum caps but not me. I still don't trust them although they have improved very much over the last decade. Thanks for stopping by. All the best and 73
Best radio repair shop.
Thanks for your nice feed back 73
Very nice repair. I wonder if the CFL is still available? I don't own that radio, but just curious. I know that there are miniature CFL's that have the bi-pin leads available, but the voltage might be an issue. Thanks for the video, and I think your XYL was talking in the room near the end of the video. 73...Dan w4mnc
Hi Dan, have not asked Kenwood yet but anyway if a new back-light is needed I would probably use LED's. Thanks for watching 73
What doyou use to clean the old acid?
This acid is very aggressive you can see it in video #75 the only which helps is a fibreglass pen...73
So you don't use any solvent? I have used the fiberglass brushes but they are getting scarce. And you have to be reeal careful with them or you take to much..
Thanks for your answer
+TheRetiredtech yeah right you Need to be extremely careful. Hope to find something additional. .... 73
cheers another good repair video...do you know how long the replacement caps are expected to last assuming say you do this with a main brand like Panasonic or Nippon Chemi-Con?
Well it all depends in the temperatur the present ripple and off course the brand and the used serios wirhin the Brand. You See it is not so easy. 73
Excellent video.
Great video. That radio was in pretty bad shape, and definitely had some poor work done to it.
Is there a product that will neutralize the residual acid. How about a mixture Baking soda and distilled water?
Hi Peter, yes for sure even if I don't know it, but in this case the acid is already in the board.. Thanks for watching 73
too bad for radio
great job reparing and video thank you Peter
Yeah Dennis really to said for the radio... Thanks for stopping by 73
Your a clever man Peter, do you think it wants new PCB's, or are they not available....Fred in England.
Thank you Fred. No pcb's are obsolete... 73
Holy crap Peter the leakage on this board is worse than the last one. Is there any way you can stress a capacitor to leak? Might be an idea for a future video on capacitors and way they fail. Great video as always look forward to the next one.
That is right Tom very bad condition...No idea what can be done to stress a cap to leak and I don't know if it is a good idea as you may jeperrdize good caps too...Thanks for stopping by 73
T Komoski The only real stress you could subject them to is high temperatures (perhaps raising a 105C rated capacitor to 125C or even 150C+ to stress them) for an extended period to increase the internal pressure and then look for evidence of leakage or a change in their electrical characteristics (namely ESR and D/Q factor). But you may have to run a test like hat for weeks to get meaningful results. But that is not very practical when the capacitors are already in circuit.
If they have already begun to leak then you can either look for telltale evidence of leakage or for changes in the ESR and D/Q values, which are the first values to show evidence of deterioration. The trouble is that capacitors have fairly wide manufacturing tolerances, so minor changes in those values are not necessarily obvious if they remain within the expected tolerance.
Thanks Ethan for the explanation really due appreciated the feedback ...
Thanks again Peter. 73s de IW0HEX Pasquale.
Hi Pasquale, always glad to see you! All the best my friend!
Another fine video, Peter. Shame all the damage those caps can cause. You would think there might be a chemical that could neutralize the acid and prevent further damage.
73 WB3BJU
Hi Donald, well if there is fresh leakage it might be possible but the problem with this radios is that the acid is already longer on the pcb and that means it is already in the board... Thanks for stopping by 73
Thanks Peter. You could just cut the leads of the e-caps and solder the leads of the new e-cap onto the old leads.
Hi Robert, off Corsa that is possible and if it would be mine i would do so but in this case it would nötig Look proffesional... Thanks for watching 73
I think it's a little too late to worry about looks with that PCB, Peter. I would rather have a good e-cap if it were me.
+Robert Calk Jr. lol sure yeah Looks Not nice😁😁
You are awesome. Where are you located? I will like to send you my radio to repair.
Thank you Ray, we are in Europe. 73
I am a TV Broadcast engineer by trade, but I also own and operate an outside broadcast company.....
You would think they would come up with something better than leaky old electro's in this day and age.
I recently had to recap 26 broadcast camera's as part of a maintenance program and more than 20% already had leaky caps at 5 years old.
I had to ultrasonically clean every board and then bake them to dry them out before I was confident all the "cats piss" was gone.......to say I am sick of re-caping is an understatement !!!!
Yeah I can Not more agree it is a shame. I have seen as well far to many cats piss LOL 😂. Thanks for watching Cheers
What a shame to see a nice radio in such awful shape. That is going to be some work my friend if the
owner says to fix it.
Thanks Peter
John
Yes you are Right Let's see what the owner wants. Thanks for stopping in my friend 73.
Super !! Interesting.
Thanks for watching 73
Good 👍
Kenwood selecting cheap parts? Perhaps not. The same leaky electrolytics are found in older test gear, too.
Hi, I think there are two reasons for problems like this. First they use really cheap components and scondly new products and early production. Thanks for comment 73
Using pulled Panasonic capacitors to recap a piece of equipment: Likely OK.
Having an electrolytic (the gray one that you showed on the LCD side) from 1985!!! in your "good capacitors" box: FAIL.Using wire to secure the traces that broke off when removing or resoldering a component: OK.Soldering with acid core solder and not cleaning the acid flux afterwards: Huge FAIL.
And count me in the group who thought these had VFDs. They do a remarkable job of simulating one.
such a shame....but i actually love kenwood radios....
yes, I like kenwood radios too...73
There is a youtube video from a guy who uses UV ligjht to look for leaked acid from caps. I do not tried it myself yet, because I have never had a leaked cap in the gear I repair (only test and calibration instruments)
Something to check in cases like this TRX, I had a secutest in for repair where someone replaced a relay and damaged a via. So the trace that was connected to the upper part of the via did not contact to the bottomtrace anymore.
schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl/?p=259 the top 2 pictures, not much to see with the naked eye but I could see it using a microscope
Hi Fred, yes I know the method with UV light and I have a UV light in my lab for this purposes but the pcb needs to have an uv reflecting coating and that is unfortunately not always given but other than that is is a great method.. Thanks for watching 73
The nADHERE to dirty tracks so Oh by the way i am 65+ and have been into electronics since i was around 5 years ols and soldering all that time
.
I HAVE MANY PROBLEM WITH TS-850S, THE DISPLAY STOP AFTER 1.5 HRS. NEED CONTACT YOU FOR REPAIR. REGARDS AURELIO