Whatever Happened to the Fleet Line?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Railway Mania podcast is here: • Tales from Tales from ...
So you might know the Fleet Line was the original name for the Jubilee Line, but how did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs?
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“London transport actually stopped advertising the opening date because it was getting embarrassing…”
*ahem, crossrail, crossrail, cough cough*
What about crossrail?
@@moover123 A number of years behind schedule and opening… Dates given that came and went… multiple times…
You mean the Elizabeth the Third (of England) line I presume !!
@@johnmurrell3175 Yes, colloquially and widely acknowledge as Crossrail.
@@OfficialRyanx Will it open before King George gets on the Throne ? Otherwise will there be pressure to rename it or else build another line quickly to be called 'The George Line' ??
"they stopped advertising the opening, cause it was getting embarrassing"
Plus ca change? Looking at you Elizabeth line
I think the story of the Elizabeth line will make an interesting video one day. It seemed to be progressing very well at one point, with technically challenging parts of the project, such as the rehabilitation of the Connaught tunnel, being completed on schedule. But as a daily user of what was to be incorporated into the western section of the route, it was obvious that no work was being done on the project in the area at all. They didn't start rebuilding Ealing Broadway, Southall or Hayes and Harlington stations until well after the originally planned opening date had passed, and they are still building sites. I'd really like to know what went so badly wrong with the schedule. Was it complex technical difficulties or incompetent project management, or something else? It all seemed to be on track until, all of a sudden, it wasn't. It was like something big hurtling towards you at great speed, which narrowly misses you then disappears into the distance behind you. "What on earth was that?" "That was our opening date."
Yes, talk about history repeating itself. Renaming the new railway after a connection to do with royalty, followed by a lengthy delay in opening, false over--optimistic opening dates publicised, and by the time it does open, many people are so fed up with hearing about the project...sounds familiar?
@@ianmcclavin But then it becomes one of London's most loved transport lines as has whats happened with the Jubilee then it might all be worth it
Cutler had the knives out... gratuitous pun for the win. Mornington Crescent
@@pangolin83 Unless you use the Jubilee platforms in Waterloo lol
"it was stuck between two Poles"
*me as a Pole looking on confused*
Not Polish myself but I had the same concern. What did Jakub do to deserve this? Does he get toilet breaks?
@@davidellis4031 North Pole, that is in West London, and Worlds End , in Chelsea more like.
"Victory from the jaws of de-fleet". Sheer bloody poetry!
We had a street party for the Silver Jubilee. It was good. I was very young at the time.
My dad's contribution was a jubilee cocktail, he somehow worked out how to pour three colours of liquid into a glass and not mix them, giving us red white and blue striped drinks. I'll have to ask him how he did that? Being an alcoholic probably helped. God only knows how he and his liver are still with us nearly half a century later?
Brilliant, just brilliant, "Jaws of Defleet" will definitely feature in future conversations!
"One does not simply walk into Morden" is still on my conversations list ;)
I wonder if any Grecian would use it at Gravesend & Northfleet? 🤔
'Many wasted sandwiches'. The only meaningful result of the late cancellation of any meeting I've ever attended.
From my memory at the time, escalators were the problem. At the time, there were only so many new escalators to go round and London Transport had the choice to open either the Jubilee Line or the Heathrow extension , and rightly chose the latter, which opened in 1977.
The jubilee line just shadowed the Bakerloo line at the time, whereas the Heathrow extension was transformative. Before, passengers had the schlep their luggage up stairs and onto the A1 bus in the forecourt.
Did you mean to make that pun?
@@Tina-nw9ro no, but I’ll take the credit anyway!
I can never see name Jubilee without remembering how my youngest daughter, only about 5 years old at the time, read the signs as Jubbly - lovely jubbly
I feel sorry for the poor lass born in 1977, whose mother named her "Juby" !!
@@ianmcclavin I recall that there was a young girl at the time who named her new (transplanted) kidney "Juberly".
@@Tevildo Nothing would surprise me anymore!!
My name for it is the Jumbly Line.
@@ianmcclavin hahaha ... was their surname Lee ?
Having been offline for a few weeks, what better way to get “back in the game”, than with one of your info and dry humor packed videos 😉
Will the Elizabeth line be renamed back to CrossRail? Probably not, but it would make its (unique) role much more obvious. Then Thameslink can be renamed Crossrail 2, saving billions, and perhaps resulting in a rationalisation of its routes. At Horsham yesterday- no one getting on the Thameslink (12-car train) to Peterborough, to anywhere, and certainly not Peterborough!
@@apuldram There's a project named Crossrail 2 from Chealsea to Hackney
@@chenyeanmingtakumi9033 not sure it’s quite the imperative it was….🤔. But rebranding THAMESLINK and reducing its geographical scope might clarify things a bit?
@@apuldram Looking at the map, if it makes sense to call the Elizabeth Line Crossrail, shouldn't Thameslink be renamed to Uprail or Downrail ?
@@hb1338 it’s Crossrail not Siderail. You can go across (a circle/complex shape) in any direction relative to the compass and/or gravity.
"Snatched victory from the jaws of da fleet". Brilliant. Your videos are always worth waiting for.
"Cutler, very obviously had the knives out for them..." (03:28) Like it, Mr Hazzard, that made me laugh. Nice one.
The only things I liked about 1977, were Punk, 'Star Wars', and 'Close Encounters Of The Third Kind'. Oh, and two ice lollies made for the Jubilee, by Lyons Maid and Walls. Never really 'got' the whole idea about royalty, myself.
"Cutler had the cutlery out for them" - fixed it for you
The best thing about 1977 was England regaining the Ashes.
@@simongleaden2864 - Forgot about that. Sorry.
And not forgetting the band Caravan's 2nd album
@@andyyu5957 An edgy comment
Jubilee is a great name. I remember going to London in the early seventies and shocked by the state of the tube. No investment. Dreadful stations. Extremely dirty. I remember reading in the 1990’s it would take fifty years to modernise it and bring up to scratch. I remember in 1986 I travelled on the Underground and two day’s later on the Tokyo Metro. It was like comparing a tent to a mansion. I have been so happy to see the Underground improve over this century.
Mostly down to Labour investment , locally and nationally
Sadly the statement about things being dirty is borne out by the Kings Cross fire of 1987 caused by accumulation of grease and rubbish. That gave an incentive to do a big clean-up job. Nobody had truly realised how dangerous it could be, although there were a couple of small warning fires in previous years.
@RODRIGUEZ SANCHEZ But actually the gradual accumulation of tunnel dirt, soot, dust and other fine combustible materials was a key factor. People had been dropping cigarette ends for decades but as long as things were kept reasonably clean it didn't matter. Grease on it's own won't burn at all easily, nor will solid wooden slats, but if you get a fire because lots of other combustible stuff is around and it gets up to a high temperature, lots of unexpected things will burn suddenly. The other horrible example of that era was the Bradford City stadium fire of 1985, where again once the fire took hold, it spread with terrifying speed. Good housekeeping matters. In 2008 a US explosion razed a factory to the ground after dust became airborne. The material? Sugar. Likewise flour and grain silos regularly go bang.
@RODRIGUEZ SANCHEZ I do hope that you do not mean your comments seriously.
@@iankemp1131 1970s Admiralty : aluminium ships don't burn. 1982 : They do if you spill a tank full of missile fuel on them and then fire the detonator on the missile.
9 minute build up to that punch line. Worth every minute.
10/10 use of the phrase "absolute madlad".
"Cutler get his knives out" ... pun intended?
I think it was intended.
"Cutler had the knives out", yes very good Jago. Your coat is waiting by the door.
I remember the campaign stickers inside the cars which read "Fleet Line? Don't Jubilee've it."
Jaws of de-FLEET! (chuckle chortle) Love your sense of humour Jago, I really do!
"A fleeting event". I love you.
DaFleat. Dropped my coffee.... Thanks , Jago!
Video on Ezra Street in Bethnal Green possible in the future? Looks like a street straight out the 50s
fascinating story I loved it, especially the occasional poke at the politicos of the day
Maybe the Jubilee Line should of been called Millennium Line. As I was thinking of the Millennium Line. And it could of been extended to London City Airport from North Greenwich.
I must say that I was underwhelmed by the special announcement (although that’s really down to UA-cam revealing the surprise a few days ago). I was so hoping for a guest appearance by Michael Portillo carrying that out of date book.
Cutler and Portillo attended the same school.....i.e. mine!
Cutler had the knives out 🙈 😂
Soooooooo there's another place I can listen to Jago and others talking ( I imagine) both reverently and irrelevantly about trains. Well that's an hour or two of this week accounted for.
The ending of this video reminds me of the ending of one of the episodes of Peabody's Improbable History on The Rocky & Bullwinkle Show. Ouch! :)
I seem to remember there being lots of silver disks placed around London to reflect where the Queen had visited in 77 - I know there’s one at Tower Hill - wonder how many others there are still
The best thing about this video is the noise of the 96 stock motors. Never remove it, TfL. Just get new stock with the exact same noise.
6:47 Jago making his own play on the Top Gear "brown" argument 🤣
Jago, are you going to make a video on North Greenwich tube station's reserved extra platform for the jubilee line proposed thamesmead branch extension?
I remember that there was also opposition to the renaming from anti-monarchists, objecting to the reference to the queen. Some of them defaced Underground diagrams, changing Jubilee back to Fleet. I also remember seeing "Would jubilieve it?" scrawled on some of them.
As I once commented under Geoff's video »Don't call Crossrail the Elizabeth line« (here only as an excerpt):
"TfL […] could change the colour of the Crossrail system (maybe just slightly) and change the colour of the Underground Jubilee line into that violet/purple of the 'Elizabeth line'. Why? Because I think a grey tone may indicate a paused or otherwise out of service line. I know, it is supposed to be Silver for the same Jubilee, but…
Furthermore, after having recoloured the Jubilee line into that purple colour, maybe they'll come up with the great idea of naming it after Her Majesty herself - the Elizabeth line. An Underground line. Formerly known as the Jubilee line. And all is (or are) well again. How about that?"
But that was back in 2017…
Feel free to (try and) find my completely original comment under said video. :)
Another excellent video, not sure if I am impressed or disgusted with all the puns in this but don't stop doing them! Thanks again.
When I was working up in London and I was there for the Queens jubilee, I thought that the jubilee line was made for the Queens jubilee festival to commemorate her silver jubilee.
Cutler, Chapman and Bennett. The 1970’s version of Wilson, Keppel and Betty!
The original route of the Fleet Line was better than the later Jubilee line as it served places like Fenchurch Street station and Ludgate Hill not served directly by tube or underground stations. The more direct route eastward would have benefitted commuters travelling from the new residential developments in Docklands too.The diversion south of the Thames to serve Waterloo station and then on to Canary Wharf was all about encouraging companies to move to Canary Wharf by providing a direct link from Waterloo station where trains from the up-market Surrey suburbs terminated. The Thatcher government was also more likely to fund a project that benefitted commerce than one that benefitted commuters The change of route also wasted the existing Charing Cross station on the Jubilee Line which closed after only a short existence as it was constructed as a temporary terminus with provision to serve through tracks going east not south at a later date.
That was one heck of a shaggy dog story to get to that pun. Only two things would make it better (worse?): A moose and a squirrel.
Could you do a video about Victoria Coach Station? I know it's not Tube or even trains, but it's an impressive listed Art Deco building.
Glad to see that you keep managing to slip in that pic of the front of Fenchurch Street, a station that for many, is unheard of.
I only know of the station because a character in a Douglas Adams novel was called Fenchurch. She was named after the place where she was conceived. Her parents explained that they were stuck for hours in an especially long line to buy train tickets and they got bored.
@@Dave_Sisson Exactly, that's also my (only) connection with this station :-D
@@Dave_Sisson I used to work on that line and my late wife worked in the ticket office. Many don't even know that the line exists. The Station frontage is much as it has always been, unlike most others.
@@Dave_Sisson We had a couple of guniea pigs , the were dark brown like some of the railway classes of the SECR, we called them Sutton and Fenchurch .
Stopped Advertising the opening date! Where e have I heard that before, now let me think! Silver and purple
Even if the Northern Line had been extended to Bushey Heath, it would still not be the most northern since back then the Metropolitan still went up to Aylesbury and the Bakerloo up to Watford Junction. It was called the Northern Line, because it was going to serve the Northern Heights.
And the Central went to Epping.
@@rayfisher3921 Ongar actually!
Another interesting video.
@jago Can I make a request and ask about the history of St James's Park station as I was stationed in the barracks at Wellington Barracks for nearly 20 years
"A colourscheme it carries to this day"
... ?? O.o You tritanopic, duckie?
I remember the G. L. C. - Didn't they built the Thames Barrier??? 🤔🚂🚂🚂
I have asked (but have yet to get a response) if the majority of underground trains are automated and therefore run without a human controller/driver? For those of us on the other side of the pond it's still a pretty foreign concept. Any light to shed would be appreciated.
I don't think there are any driverless trains (yet) on the London Tube.
@@moover123 Victoria line was the first, though it keeps a man in the cab. DLR is also driverless.
One of the last remnants of "Fleet Line" signage was on the Piccadilly Line diagrams at King's Cross St.Pancras. They showed interchange with the "Fleet Line" at Green Park for many years, well into the 90's at least. I think they're gone now though.
The name change cost was peanuts compared to the cost of changing the planned route. The disused Charing Cross platforms and the unused line to Green Park being a rather more expensive legacy of this planning cock-up.
Its called Sunk Costs, if the new line is better and gives a desired return in excess of alternatives then one is better off taking that route rather than that first thought of. (So if you have spent £1 , and need to spend another £1 you spend it on the one that gives you 20p back rather than 10p back. you will be 10p less worse off ).
They still use it for emergency reversals these days, and like Aldwych, it gets used for filming quite a bit. Awful waste though, the layout at Charing Cross was never designed as an interchange between the Bakerloo and Northern Lines (previously two separate stations of course) at the next level above, solely through those relatively narrow corridors. At the time Charing Cross Jubilee Line platforms were completed, the Ludgate Circus/Fenchurch Street route plans were still on the drawing board. It was never the intention to abandon the platforms some 20 years later, back in 1979. (I was one of the last people to ride the escalators up from there on the final day of operation, back in late 1999).
I don’t think they knew in the 1970s, that after Thatcher terminated stage 3 of the Jubilee Line, that the private businesses in Docklands would threaten to build their own Tube line into the City a decade later, forcing the Government to extend the Jubilee there. London Underground didn’t want to abandon Charing Cross, but it had to be done in order for the line to connect to Waterloo and London Bridge, as that’s the route the financial institutions wanted and the JLE was built as a private/public partnership. The overrun from Charing Cross stretches almost as far as Aldwych station, which would have been on the original planned route to Fenchurch Street. The line would have to turn at a 90 degree angle to continue to Waterloo. If it took the original route, there would be no JLE, as there would be no partnership to finance it.
No: it was because MPs insisted that the Jubilee Line stop at Westminster (and probably helped pay for Portcullis House!)
These puns are getting worse!! Thank you.😊
That’s fives years for that last pun 👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾 keep it up
This makes me want to be on the Jubilee Line for 24 hours lol
In the fifties, Cutler told my mother no-one needed electric points in a kitchen. The man was clearly a visionary...
We can all make mistakes but anyone who combats communism is alright in my book... Other books are available and all are encouraged to read them.
@@grahamross6397 Cutler was one of those people who wanted capitalism for everyone, but himself.
@@CyclingSteve Ah, can't abide a hypocrite. There's only so far anti-commie sentiment and action will take you before personal integrity comes into play.
'Jaws of de Fleet'. Go to your room and stay there.
Good evening Jago. Looks like a spot of rain. I did enjoy your video. Must feed the cat now. What's that? Oh, nice of you to say so. Goodnight.
Thanks Jago - great account. I had no idea of the background to the Fleet Line project. It would be interesting to learn of the details behind the Charing Cross to Baker Street section especially since I remember looking at an old tube map of my late father's (probably dating from the early 1960s) which shows that section as being part of the Bakerloo Line. Given that if you go to baker Street now, you can see how the northbound Bakerloo and Jubilee, and the southbound Bakerloo and Jubilee lines are on the same tunnel levels respectively, this would be worth learning about.
Thanks again for another great video. 👏🏾 👌🏾
Yes, the old Bakerloo forked at Baker Street into the Stanmore and Queens Park branches. They built the new Jubilee line via Bond Street and created a cross-platform interchange at Baker Street so it wasn't too much of a loss for passengers from Waterloo and Piccadilly to the Stanmore branch.
And of course the name Jubilee Line was exactly right. Inspired even.
I wonder if another meaning of "fleet" was also being implied: would the Fleet Line be considered to be fleet, as in fast? On the map, is it officially described as "silver"? I've always thought of it as silver, rather than grey, but it shouldn't matter - unless you're a map printer.😁
Cheers for now,🍻
Dougie.
Oh P.S. "From de jaws of de fleet" - really?? My groan-o-meter nearly melted.😂
"The Jaws of DeFleet"? WORST... PUN... in HUMAN HISTORY!!
Brilliant sir, Brilliant.
I was one of the first and youngest engineers to work on the Fleet Line, and that was that hump on the road at Bond St, in 1975. Balfour Beatty sunk the shaft and we rattled our way up and down in our hard hats covered in concrete dust.
Thanks for reminding me of all this, I moved to London in 1978, and remember being a bit mystified by the whole Fleet line thing. What I was not mystified by ( and thanks for also reminding me) was how much of a toadying little creep Horace Cutler was, a view shared by the London electorate a year or so later, when they slung him and his fellow travellers out on their sorry posteriors. PS, how about a piece on the Fares Fare situation? "I voted for cheap fares, who voted for Lord Denning"? What larks....
They should have changed the colour to Gold for the 50th anniversary.
I remember doing human reproduction at school in around 1979, and the teacher joked that ova travel along the fallopian tube because they don't know about the Jubilee Line.
Highlight of the week.
You and a few others deserve a regular income to make videos full time.
Ghastly little man
Puntastic😸 and informative.
Having just listened to the mania episode, I wanted to mention my two most memorable train journeys, London to Penzance, and top of my list for dramatic scenery (that it had just rained and the sun came out among the bruised clouds) as traveling to Cardiff from either Southampton or Portsmouth, I honestly can't remember, but my oh my, it was jaw dropping. I'd love to do it again, even without the dramatic weather, it was like time traveling with deep gorges, rolling landscapes. Stunning.
Other scenic routes are available.
@@rayfisher3921 Oh I don't doubt it, it's just that trains, at least back then, were generally so much more expensive than taking the bus :(
bethnal green underground and bethnal green overground would be intresting
Yes, we may get a "Too Many Bethnal Greens" video at some point perhaps. Jago has already done one on the tube station, specifically (and movingly) on the 1943 crush tragedy and the "Stairway to Heaven".
A very interesting history Lesson.
And that last dad pun, "snatching victory..." had me groaning in delight. 😂
Victory from the jaws of defleet. So bad it is the best pun of the week.
"Cutler having the knives out for them" definitely comes a close second
Well, a good pun _is_ its own re-word...
In 1977, my family and I were among the waves of tourists coming to London. It was our first trip to England, and my brother and I were still little enough to travel at significantly cheaper fares. We still have our little Silver Jubilee jackets, and I still have my scratchy lurex Silver Jubilee socks.
We spent a week in London, and then Dad rented a car, and drove us throughout southern England.
In 1979, we spent a week in London, en route to a conference in Vilach, Austria, where Dad was a featured speaker. But we didn't ride the Jubilee Line, because it hadn't opened yet.
That reminds me of how my Oyster card is the 150th anniversary design. Not very useful anymore as I don’t live nearby anymore and you can more easily use contractless with a smartphone nowadays. But I don’t want to send it in to get the £2 off it because I know it’s a more significant piece of ephemera than normal Oysters!
That interchange at Westminster always makes me feel I'm stepping into an Escher drawing
As a backpacking Aussie visiting London in 1979, I was bemused by all the controversy over NOT naming the new line the Fleet Line. It seems there were signs and other forms of written protest everywhere. Perhaps the cleverest of all was by someone who penned "Fleet Line? Don't Jubilee-ve it!".
I use the Jubilee line every day and go past West Hampstead. At 2.18 there is a southbound pulling in at West Hampstead and just above the train is the word 'runchy' spray painted on the wall 5 times in a row. I have no idea what it means, but whenever I go past, I count all the runchys.
After writing this, I realised that I now seem incredibly weird but I must put this out there
That is just so runchy.
You are not weird.
What is probably weird, is that I and probably many others have waited till 2:18 to look for the word Runchy, or is that Rumchy?!
Weirder still, I googled Runchy West Hamspead 'checks notes' - do not google Runchy West Hampstead...
@@actuallypaulstanley i googled it... 🙈👀
Probably someone's graffiti tag.
TRiG (Ireland) I did wonder if Runchy tagged that wall whilst laying on the corrugated roof, so spraying upside down, or with a ladder from the other side of the tracks...
Okay, I admit it, it's getting weird now; sorry everyone.
7:49 I'm guessing Jago wrote that line at 3 a.m. after having been working for 18 hours.
I'd always taken the colour to be silver, in reference to the Silver Jubilee. I also wonder if LT may have been keen to avoid anything that might recall the Daimler Fleetline bus, or DMS as LT called it, about which they were not particularly over the moon
the Fleetline, in is Londoner Body, as brought about by Bennett following his Mancunian. Actually not a bad bus IF the LT Garages had read and followed Leylands service manual for it.
Hey, the DMS was an excellent bus, at least for those major provincial operators who understood the concept of "alter our maintenance procedures to suit the buses" rather than LT's preferred "try to alter the buses to suit our rigid maintenance procedures".
It's not unreasonable to say that LT's determination to dump the DMS kept the rest of the country's bus operators afloat at a time when British Leyland simply couldn't be arsed to supply buses within a year or two of them being ordered and those companies needed to get rid of the last of their conductor operated buses simply to stave off bankruptcy.
That BDT van outside Fenchurch Street station must have clocked up dozens of parking tickets, as it has not moved for weeks.
The Fleet Line Station in Canon Street is nearly complete now - it has reappeared as the new entrance to Bank Station in Canon Site. The Site of the station box was preserved so could be used for the new ticket hall.
I'm surprised the costs were only £50k I remember going to the stores in the old tram depot in Acton hunting for some equipment that had been removed from a 60TS train. The stores had a the Fleet Line enamelled signs that had been manufactured and were heading for the scrap bin. In some cases at interchange stations the enamelled line diagrams had 'Jubilee Line' plates riveted over the Fleet line connections. I wonder how many of these there are still on stations today ?
There is also a long story about the Fleet line ATO / ATP - that was going to be an upgrade to the Victoria Line with 4 speeds - however the signal engineers had not consulted the rolling stock engineers on how these 4 speeds were going to be achieved in the days before electronic traction equipment. Spent a long time experimenting with how to get 4 stable speeds out of a train with camshaft traction control. It did not go well, we had far too many operations of the camshaft as the train went faster than the desired speed and then cut the power to the motors and when the speed fell re-apply the power resulting in another camshaft operation. We tried only using one, two, three or 4 sets of motors but while better that did not work well enough.
I dated the niece of Horace Cutler. She never really spoke highly of him! Horace's father built many of the 30's style housing in "Metro-land". All that identikit housing in Edgware, Kingsbury and Rayners Lane? Cutler housing.
Cutler had the knives out.
They do that, don't they? 😀
You’re very sharp.
@@dangerousandy LOL
@@grahamstubbs4962 a pointed comment, there.
Thank you. I hadn't spotted that one.
Forks too!
A fleeting tale from the tube
I’m pretty sure the Bakerloo line wasn’t named after a company but was named so because it originally went between Baker St. and Waterloo
And also Hammersmith & City because it was created in 1990…
Its original title was The Baker Street & Waterloo Railway. However the Hammersmith and City name was new - that was previously just a branch of the Metropolitan Railway.
If they extended the Hammersmith & City Line all the way to Upminster they could call it the Hamster Line.
@@FranekWich In fact the name Hammersmith and City was resurrected from that of the Hammersmith and City Railway, a joint GWR-Metropolitan subsidiary that had actually built the line from Paddington to Hammersmith (I mean, the one via Westbourne Park etc.) back in the day, but then just gradually got absorbed into the Met. Therefore technically the H&C line really is named after the company that built [part of] it.
I think even without the subsequent rerouting, and even though the way in which the name was chosen was a bit daft, with the benefit of hindsight “Jubilee Line” is far superior to “Fleet Line”.
Pun-tastic, thanks for being an awesome guest!
Everyone's praising the "jaws of de Fleet" pun, and rightly so, but I just want to take a moment and point with a knowing smile at "Cutler very obviously had the knives out for them."
At the time of the renaming shenanigans I was a young teenager and something of a Tube geek. I have a memory (or perhaps a dream?) that there was a an informal campaign against altering the name from Fleet which went along the lines(!) of "Don't Jubelivee it". It did have a certain ring to it, and I quickly subscribed to the notion. Does anyone else recall this, or am I making it up? I honestly don't know.
On another matter; do Tube maps with the proposed Fleet line visible as under construction have any great value given what transpired? I don't own one, but am just wondering.
Lord forbid we name anything after anyone but the current sovereign. Heck, even Meghan's new baby is Lillibet.
"fleeting event" Love it. Good job Jago.
Score!
Come on, own up! Who was it in LT that forgot to change the colour of the line from silver to gold in 2002?
There is already a yellow line though...
@@cezarcatalin1406 I said gold, not yellow. Print the pocket maps with a 24Ct gold stripe in them!
Snatching victory from the claws of de fleet... Oh dear - a new low on the Tony Blackburn Book of Jokes-o-meter!
Thank you for a delightful example of British cynicism, within a truly important historical document. Much appreciated. Mike
My first March Break trip was to London in 1977 with my school, I didn't realise it coincided with the Silver Jubilee year, maybe this is the reason we heard the authorities were relocating the homeless.
Am I the only person who when seeing you with a new video drops everything they are doing to make sure they see the new video?
I do
Great video, love the slightly more relaxed style. Would love to see more videos on the GLC/LCC and history of London government
Indeed. the activities of LT/TfL are inextricably linked with the GLC/LCC and the results of the directives/machinations from the erstwhile County Hall . Including roads and development of post war housing projects resulting in the London of today.
That final victory pun was just beautiful!
'Flleet Street, London's street of shame...' -yet again I was drawn in by the trains, stayed for the social history, and left with a stack of one-liners I wish I'd written...
Mr Hazzard, you are enviably and devilishly good at this.
The epithet "Street of Shame" for Fleet Street is not original, it dates back to the days of Sweeney Todd.
So it's not Soho,then?
About the renaming, should have used the headline about Johnson renaming Crossrail (a National Rail route) to the Elizabeth Line, treating it as a Tube line, when he was Mayor of London. Just like Horace Cutler, it was done as a publicity stunt. Sadiq Khan is planning to name the individual London Overground routes, as it’s becoming a network in its own right, to avoid confusion.
I thought it was called Crossrail to reflect how people felt at the constant delays in opening.
Ralph Bennett was brought in from Rochdale Corporation/ SELNEC PTE , so I cannot see it was his fault for being in at the top when the political roundabout cameabout.
Bolton then Manchester, not Rochdale, and (according to Wiki) he was parachuted onto the LT Board in '68 just before SELNEC was created.
I've read that LT really didn't like him all that much; he was an outsider, a provincial (the horror!), and an exponent of major change, and was thus never really accepted by either LT's entrenched managers or the London political establishment.
@@atraindriver Thought it was Bolton- went on memory. I wondered thought why LT went for him without the PTE experience, Bolton's Local Competitor was Lancashire United , one of the biggest independent bus companies in England ( though with Regulation Competition is not exactly the correct word, and Bolton had lots of agreement / revenue shares with the adjoining local authorities, so the element of poliical control and answering to was there. I think LT had already decided to implement the reshaping london's bus services, with the AEC Single Deckers and Flat Fare routes in some places around london (generally disliked by locals as even with saver mulit tickets the short distance fares were more expensive). The AFC in fitted supposed rarely worked (though the DMS equipment initially generated card tickets rather than the SMS paper ones which I found odd). LT had bought 50 experimental Atlantean and nine fleetlines, then Ordered the 2000 odd Fleetlines for the central area fleet !, the NBC acquired London Country went mostly for the Atlantean offering.
Yet another fleeting look in to the underground.
3:01 that's essentially Amtrack or Deutsche Bahn today lol.