This short war showcased how hopelessly weak Cardassian Union is compared to the major powers. In their border "war" with the Federation, the Cardassians were able to use disproportionately heavy losses to exchange for a negotiated settlement, but they only fought what was essentially a Federation interdiction operation. The Federation never engage the Cardassians in an actual war and only sent a peacekeeping force of older ships. In a full scale war, the Cardassians are completely outmatched.
Yep. They got raped by the Klingons in a time when the Klingon Empire was ravaged by corruption, had become a declining power, and was barely able to compete with the Federation and Romulans. Klingons at their worst >>>>> Cardassians in their prime Although in the Cardassian's defense, they had just lost the Obsidian Order, Central Command and Cardassia was in a state of rebellion. With all this chaos going on the last thing they needed was a war with a major power.
At the time the federation had no stomach for an all out war. They were spoiled by the Golden Age that the Lost Era (after Undiscovered Country and before TNG) gave them.
@@bigevil1001 my take is that the Cardassian Union was a paper tiger militarily. But regardless, they were a major power economically and politically. The Obsidian Order played a major part in keeping the image both in the minds of their rivals and most importantly, their own populace. So most of the arrogant Cardassians we saw in TNG and early DS9 *technically* didn't bluff. They truly believed they were stronger than they really were. The informed few like Order members like Tain and Garak, and high ranking politicians like Dukat played their cards for them. With the fall of the Order and the desperate alliance with the Dominion, they were finally forced to dump resources into their military. Being less apt and powerful than they perceived themselves to be, the Cardassian government ended up paying more than their fair share of the war efforts. To the detriment of its people and soldiers.
not so sure they obviously had some good officers and success against the klingons because martok actually praised their fighting ability during the dominion war.
I'm a disabled American from Nowhereville, USA, but I've been an amateur Naval Historian for over 40 years. Your Star Trek based fleet battle videos are simply outstanding. I have read, listened and watched Naval battle stories for decades and your Star Trek based videos get better with each subsequent release. I subsist on an extremely low fixed income that's barely above the poverty level. If not for that fact I would surely donate to your channel and efforts. I subscribe and tell my friends about the channel at every opportunity, but I just wanted to express my joy at your latest work. Damn fine video..! I hope to see many more wonderful releases soon. Take care and as always, have fun out there... Roonok
I assume as a Naval Historian you have seen this: Venom and that guy in the following vid know what they are doing. ua-cam.com/video/Bd8_vO5zrjo/v-deo.html
@@Stargetsu yeap. Subscriber to that channel as well. But, this channel has the best Star Trek based battle/ historical videos I've watched on UA-cam by far.
I am also a disabled American but see no point in mentioning that I am in fact, disabled, unless it is warranted. I don’t have a victim mentality. It got me far in life; my job and social life. I’m talking about my mentality, not my disability.
To quote Bill Hicks "This was not a war. See a war is when *TWO* armies are fighting". I think that sums up this battle pretty well, with the Cardassians just being utterly crushed
Good show. I take three things from this. One Cardassians were used to fighting a non cloaking fleet thus the tactics employed by the Klingons threw them badly. Two, the officers of all orders were weak bureaucrats more interested in their cups of kanar than tactics and planning. Three, the Klingons learned from years of war with the federation on how to attack a non cloaking fleet of ships. Again great vid man I hope to see more of these. Also I love how you put up a number bar at the top 😁.
The cardassiams were used to fighting klingons and had many skirmishes and wars against them so they will be used to fighting enemy ships with cloaks. The cardassians were weakened by the disruption of their military. The central command was gone. The obsidian order was gone too i believe. Either would weaken the cardassians both would be very bad.
@@carolheward6479 then why with alot of outdated ships utterly spank the Cardi's badly. A Galor Class could wreck a wing of Brel class vessels, could outgun a K'vort class cruiser. The cardi's were equal to the klingons in firepower if not ships. So I fallback to weak bureaucrats more interested in getting sloshed than training and fighting.
Cardassian battle tactics were clearly poor here. They should have put all their ships in one place so the Klingons wouldn't be able to cloak and retreat like that picking their battles. I think Klingon ships having better firepower and the Klingon bloodlust were also big factors here. Think about it besides the brief civil war when was the last time the Klingons had a large scale war? At least 20 years right? So all of them were going wild and their morale was at a high point. I wonder how the dominion war would have played differently if the Klingons had never weakened the Cardassians and all the Alpha Quadrant powers stood together against the dominion from the start? On one hand I think it would have been easier for the Alpha Quadrant forces not having a foothold situation with the Cardassians joining the dominion. But on the other hand Sisko convinced the prophets to get rid of 2800 dominion reinforcements and scare them too much to send any more thru so I guess it evens out would you say?
The Klingon/Cardassian War showed just how much the Federation held back against the Cardassians. A power with similar technology and power (the Klingons) were able to utterly curbstomp the Cardassians RIGHT up until the Dominion arrived after all.
@@robertbarrows6687 sorry I always seeing thes people on here and their revisionist history view on startrek as a means to advance a right wing agenda.
It wasn't the Cardassian military that "crumbled", it was the Obsidian Order that crumbled after the disastrous (non)-surprise attack on the Dominion's Founders.
Yep losing the obsidian order would weaken the cardassian military but the loss of central command would have an equally bad effect. The klingons would be the stronger force anyway but the cardassiams were weaker than normal your right.
I’m about to start this series…again. I watched all of them as they were released, thus…this is my second trip thru. I gotta say, in all honesty…this is just as entertaining to me as watching any of the Trek series on Para-plus. You do a wonderful job with this stuff Mike! Thank You for what you do and how you do it. 😎👍❤
This is great! I came here after finding your Daedalus class video and the battle of Betazed, I'll definitely be watching more. And "the battle of 73E," I see what you did there!
quickly suddenly and with extreme aggression break your enemies back then ne3ver and at any cost never let them regroup and reorganize and by this method even a small force can destroy a larger one. two high ranking cardi officers one extremely skilled broken in 2 hours. simply awe-inspiring.
Bravo Venom Geek Media. Your storytelling capabilities are amazing!. CBS should hire you for some of their storytelling. You really make trek lore into something that's downright fascinating. I can't wait to see what you come up with next... Edit... Sometimes bud... your videos are the highlight of my day... If you don't do this for a living... you should...
Found your videos thanks to the collab. w/ Drach. Interesting what you did here, saddling the cardsssians with the historical weaknesses of the French Army (Distrusted by political leaders, poor comms/radio structure and adoption, limited pre-war training except as cadre) prior to the battle of France in 1940. Definitely got the underlying message that Cardsssians plans focused on fighting the last war, instead of preparing for future threats. Thanks.
The Klingon strategies are a lot more impressive than the Federation and Cardassians, and they reflects well on their cultures, The Cardassians focus on more text book strategies with fleets sticking together in strict formation, which makes them difficult to break and focus on a strict command structure and unity where they overwhelm their opponents with numbers or firepower. However their tactics and strategies and easy enough to predict and pretty cut and dry and their strict command structure leaves little flexibility or initiative to be taken by their officers, where officers often hesitate or wait for orders/permission before acting and if the commander cannot give out clear orders to other ship, their unity is broken and they can be easily broken up and destroyed by their enemy during the confusion and their lack of skill. The Federation strategies, on the other hand focus on the abilities of their more advance ships along with the flexibility or initiative taken by their skilled and capable officers, on the field, which gives them a distinct advantage and works well for them. However this can sometimes leads to miscommunication or lack of coordination between other fleet groups. In addition the Federation lack an aggressive nature needed to fully exploit their advantage of having a large pool of skilled command officers who can take the initiative when needed and having more advance ships. This lack of aggression often leaves the Federation on the defensive in war, where they are often more focused on keeping what they have than what they can take back or get. This in turn causes them to lose the momentum they gain after a victory where they slow their advance forward or stop all together, and lose the initiative, often allowing their enemies to fortify their lines and rebuild their forces to go on the offensive again. The Klingon strategies, however are much more aggressive than the others, they focus on quick but brutal attacks, using their faster and more mobile ships to distract their opponents and break their opponents formations before dropping the hammer down on their disorganised enemy with their bigger and more powerful ships. The cloaks also give them an added advantage of not only making surprise attacks, but also allow the Klingons to bypass the more heavily fortified positions and to pick and chose their battles at will, as well as allow them to outflank enemy fleet units and surround them. However despite all their pros, their is a significate weakness to their strategy, which is that they are too aggressive, because they commit so much to the attack they leave little to nothing in reserve or defence, meaning that if an enemy is able to withstand their main assault they become vulnerable and are open to counterattacks and can often be pushed back with heavy loses. Also if an enemy is able to outflank them or come up behind them, they can do nothing to stop them and easily get overwhelmed and forced to retreat or are destroyed.
Absolutely wonderful video! Where did you find the info on the order of battle? The information regarding which ships were part of the klingon forces is great!
@@IronWarhorsesFun ...... probably not, in the trek timeline.. hell, Klingons achieved warp in 1922. They probably came up with the concept in one of own earlier wars. In real life, yes. The Germans did it first.
@@sagesheahan6732 Horse raiders have been doing " lightning wars " for centuries. What gave Germany the advantage during WW II, they drove tanks into parts of Eastern Europe that didn't even have cars yet. As for France, Demark, and Poland ... that is like looking at the USA and the state of Indiana invading the states surrounding it self.
There's actually nothing new about the Blitzkrieg methods that the Germans used in WW2. It's an old as fuck Sun Tzu proverb to hit the enemy quick and efficiently. Sun Tzu even argues that War itself should basically be a blitz. As is stated, a General should strive to end the war for his majesty as quick as possible, for war is expensive and prolonged conflict will drain the kings purse and deprive him of strong men to prepare his grain. The proverbs refer to how in ancient times, up to 2/3rds of able bodied men would be levied into the army and this would severely hamper the economy of the warring nation since basic infrastructure in very important industry such as farming will have had it's primary labor force drastically reduced. Birth rates will drop during the period of war and a generation of children will be sent into the world with possible less education. In the modern world, much of this still applies primarily as a cost of war weariness from the general population as well as the cost in taxes. What the Germans did that was new was institute the first instance of truly Mechanized Warfare, using true Mobile Infantry units a long with Armor. Because the army was based on it's vehicular uses, it was meant to exploit extreme speeds that were not achievable with the typical advance on foot via what's known as "Hard/Forced March". The Klingons here to me used a basic forced advance and leveraged Asymmetric warfare with the use of Cloak, which today is analogous with Stealth. This allows the Klingons to initiate combat on their terms and thus, can first hit advantages when engaging. What this battle ACTUALLY reminds me of, isn't the Blitz of Poland. It's actually very reminiscent of the Alexander campaigns, specifically the Battle of Gaugamela. This was a battle in open field between Alexander and Darius in which Alexander HANDEDLY beat Darius in a brutal route. Much of the features of that battle, mimic the operation performed by the Klingons here. The Klingons advanced quickly but much like in 331 BC, Darius had time to assemble and prepare before Alexander's arrival since his army marched so slowly. In Sector 73 Epsilon, the Cardassians had forewarning hours before the battle which allowed them to also assemble and prepare. The Cardassians setup a battle line VERY similar to Darius's battle line. Even Jargul Ocett, who can be seen as the intended "Darius of Persia" here, has entrenched herself deep within her "Order Guard" much like how Darius did with his finest Guard Infantry (Immortals) as per Persian tradition. She made herself a reserve force meant to crash on any Klingon momentum once it struck her battle line over seen by Gul Madred(s?). She ordered Gul to spread his battle line to the extreme because she so feared the Klingons exploiting the flanks that they ran their numbers thin as a result. This allowed the Klingons to easily pierce a whole in the defensive line and swarm it. Furthermore, by pure chance; Ocett's own forces were struck and while Ocett wasn't killed at the Asteroid her Reserve Guard fell back to, the Commander who failed to make a decision during that curical moment to engage or regroup is eerily similar to the effect that happened in Gaugamela, where Darius's Charioteer was slain via a thrown Spear and the Army looking on thought it was their KING that died, and thus they began to panic! In 331 BC, Alexander was faced with a similar style of battle. His enemy, much like the Cardiassians, assembled their forced based on preconceived expectations that were observed in older battles. This is referred to as "Doctrine" in the Video but I wouldn't be so sure. Darius set up his army to seem as massive as possible to prevent any change of Alexander gaining any flank on his forces. He had figured Alexander would approach him much the same way as before in the previous two battles. It was said that Alexander's forces were "Half of the Length" of Darius's army, showing just how long a battle line Darius formed. Alexander of course, did not approach Darius the same way. Darius had warning of his advance and had even had time to setup barriers and obstacles in the ground between them and the Macedonians. Alexander saw that the battle field was flat and very good for chariots, so he knew the risk that Chariots may shatter his Phalanx formations if not prepared. As in earlier battles, Alexander orders his formation in an oblique angle to the Persian Lines like before, with the Phalanx formation anchoring the center, a reserve heavy phalanx in the rear, and the forward Phalanx flanked by the Guard and Companion Calvary. Once approaching, Darius initiated the battle by trying to hit Alexander's most aggressive flank, Alexander's Right flank. However he'd already partitioned his forces accordingly to counter the fast attack sent by Bessus. As Alexander's forced engaged, Darius's right flank (alexander's left flank, which was overseen by Parmenion) scrambled and mistakenly only engaged what they saw immediately ahead of them, which was Parmenion's forces and the Left Wing Guard units. Parmenion's only objective was to hold the line against any counter attack so he was well prepared for any sprung charges. Darius had not intended for his units on the Right of him to fully commit to Parmenion's forces. He needed some of that charge to actually hit directly towards Alexander's side, but communication and poor discipline was starting to show already. By having the ENTIRE RIGHT FLANK of Darius committed to Parmenion's forces, this left a massive gap to the Left of Darius; an opening in the Battle Line. While the Levies (the poor and young) attempted to fill the gap, it was too late and Alexander saw his moment, and pierced the gap. He then struck from right to Left, into Darius's Left side from his POV, rampaging across the Persian line's face. This is when it was assumed Darius had been killed by a Spear Shot. A Counter attack was attempted to strike into the rear of Alexander but it was too late, the Reserve heavy infantry were already in position to thwart any such attempt. The route witnessed that day was probably Alexander's greatest victory and it's very similar to how the Battle of Sector 73 Epsilon plays out.
God bless you for all of your research and hard work i'm going through a very bad physical time right now and I might not live as long as I had hoped this is really bringing me some joy I will enjoy it for as long as my funds hold out and as long as I can afford Internet. Thank you and God bless you for this wonderful series when they do cut off My Internet I will have these stories playing in my mind and that brings me joy and when you're in the state I am, the community has programs to help you with housing until the curtain closes if you will. The next until the next heartbreaking change comes to pass to where I can no longer watch this until that time I will enjoy the peace these videos bring me and God bless you and thank you for the work you've done you don't know how much you've helped me I'm sorry to take up this much of your time but I wanted to let you know to someone who's leaving far too early in my opinion I just wanted to thank you you are good people good men great humans
I know this is old, but I really enjoy this style of video. I've seen this style in other fandoms, but not in Star Trek. Well done! I'll be checking out more of your videos.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I'm thinking specifically of Arch in the Warhammer 40k fandom. You both seem to approach lore from a well rounded point of view, and I appreciate that.
Thanks for this! The klingons really kicked the crap out of the cardassians! It's a wonder how they were able to hold the klingons off till they joined the dominion.........
Cardassians learn quickly long term the invasion was a powerful learning experience for them. and it Weeded out the incompetent elements of the Cardassian officer corps.
The Klingons were also in a state of war with the Federation too and couldn't devote their full resources to the war with the Cardassians without potentially leaving themselves open to a potential counter attack by the Federation or the Romulans taking advantage of the situation
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Thing what Cardassians failed to realize is that Federation has not only has technological but also numerical advantage. That in most cases they face obsolete ships like Excelsior and Miranda, working in duty of border patrol and exploration. Federation not only originally fail to secure whole region, allowing colonization. But also hesitate to send fleet from Romulan-Klimngon border to clean the job. Fearing possible invasion from actual enemy forces. Anyway. It is quite interesting to see Federation dealing with over aggressive colonial power for once, instead cold war scenario. DS9 was somewhat prophetic in change of the focus from the Cold War.
Wait... Wasn't quote "Martok" already switch out for a changeling imposter during this War and it's planning? That's really worrying that changelings have a needed genius and tact to seamlessly manage and bring out the strengths of the Klingon fleet. I am now very worried about the Dominion...
The picture of Martok at 2:14 shows him with an eye missing, which was lost by the real general in a POW camp in combat with the Jem Hadar guards, after his ambush and covert replacement by the changeling. The changeling imitating Martok always appeared with two eyes, so this is technically a 'continuity glitch'.
Sound battle tactics! I think even War Colleges/Military Academies might want to start using your series to their classes. As an instructor, I would, depending upon the subject, either end or begin the class with one of these videos.
War Colleges/ Military Academies were at one time an elite special section of education which very few had the privilege going to. Deemed " classified " Then online video gaming change all that, such information can no longer be claimed as " state secrets." Other side note, raptors dive attack from above the target prey. Also face to face ship/ tank combat you want to keep a lower profile to keep from being hit. From a high advantage the top surface of the ship has a wider target area. DS9 didn't show the BoP making enough dive attacks.
that was the original inspiration. if your new then 'Wings of Romulus' will be right up your street its the most closely based on wings. this one is actually more based on 'Greatest tank battles.'
Absolutely love these videos man. Any thoughts on the Cardassian orbital weapon platforms at Chin'toka? I don't see how Cardiassians could have such a powerful platform and shields. Did the Dominion help develop them despite they looked like Cardassian tech?
I guess it was a good thing for Garak when he was telling Dr. Bashir about a hypothetical war between Cardassians and Klingons on a holo novel, and Bashir asked who wins, with Garak smugly asking, "Who do you think?", that Quark didn't jump in and ask Garak if he wanted to take a 100/1 bet on the winning side.
2:13 was it General Martok or was he replaced by then? I've always assumed that the whole war was the Dominion doing 4d chess to destabilize the alpha quadrant to get the Cardassians the give them a foothold with open arms.
Any way you'd do a video covering the battles between the Klingons and Cardassians years before this? The Betreka nebula incident i recall it being referred to in the DS9 episode The Way of the warrior.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 In the novels, it took place 2328 to 2346, in various mild skirmishes, as shown in the book 'The Art of the Impossible' (Lost Era miniseries)
One question I have, is if Jagul Ocett's ship was destroyed, how would you explain her being instrumental in influencing the Battle of Cardassia Prime at the end of the Dominion War?
None of the events you described ever took place in canon, but I guess you could say they were interpolated. As Picard would say, "Well done. Well done, indeed."
That seems to be a running theme, that the Federation are so obsessed with having peace and getting out of potential conflict, that they are more than willing to take a crap deal if it means getting out of an immediate potential conflict, even if it almost guarantees a worse conflict later down the line
Were the Cardassians ever a major power? When was their first contact with the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Borg, Breen? When did they discover warp? When did they first achieve warp 5 and 7? How does this chronology of warp compare with Vulcan, Klingon, Romulan, Ferengi, Breen chronology? There were minor civilizations in STE, I forget their name, that developed warp 7 before Starfleet. How does the warp chronology of said minor species in STE compare with that of Cardassians?
intresting question. we know from ENT "observer effect" that the cardassians were knocking about in the 22nd century given the Dialogue of Gul Madred in "Chain of Command" we can conclude that this was a different era and cardassian technology was likely very stagnant up until the late 23rd century at which point successive wars with the tenztheki and Talarians bring a complete collapse to cardassian society at which point the military took over. after that cardassian tech evolves at an incredible rate through the 24th century.
Which Galor variant was the one that was shown on the normal front line Edit: You mentioned a Galor 1, just curious over what happened to the Galor 3s and Keldons which was mentioned in TNG and DS9
Galor 1s entered service during the border war and had blue deflectors by the 70s the would be refitted into 2 or 3s Galor 2s entered service during TNG and had yellow deflectors, and pink energy weapons. Galor 3s entered service in late TNG red deflector. Gold energy beams. What we mostly see in early ds9 The 3* was produced after joining the dominion. It'd the CG model.
The primary problem for the Cardassian was not the lack of experience and skill of its commanders, although those were shortcomings. The Carddassian fleet is 50 to 100 years behind in technology. The Galor or even Galor II would be an even match for a 100 year old Excelsior when it was first deployed or the Vorcha which came about 50 years ago. BY the time of this war, the Klingon's are fielding K'Vort class battle cruisers instead of Vorcha class battle cruiser and the Federation has moved on to Excelsior's replacement, the Sovereign as the mainline combat cruiser for Star Fleet. This does not take into account the Federation exploration cruiser lines of Ambassador and its replacement the Galaxy, nor even the multi-purpose cruisers Miranda and its replacement, Nebula. The Klingons field the Negh-var but it is mostly a fleet flagship and there are few of them. Only 4 were ever seen in all of Star Trek and 2 were in one episode being obliterated by a Galaxy.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I agree - on paper. The problem is that from what we see of the Negh-var it is a royal barge. We see it in the DS9 mirror episode hauling the regent around and getting butt-spanked by a Defiant. We see another in the attack on DS9 and until the boarding party is it not in the fight. Of the two in All Good Things, one is blown apart by the upgraded Enterprise-D and the other disengages after being crippled, by the Enterprise-D at the same time. Every other time we see it, it is serving in a non-combat role - hauling people around. It somewhat reminds me of the Japanese Battleship Yamato. Always meant for the BIG battle battle but it spends all its time doing nothing so when the time comes to shoot, the crew is green and the ship is not up to battle condition.
These videos are fantastic. But how did you get that number 120 ships * 3 is 360 is the Klingon Empire fleet sive ???...... the Klingons at the end of the war had 1500 ships and that was their forces completely depleted. It was stated 1,500 ships were outnumbered ten-to-one for Klingon?
yeah so bear in mind the dominion war is still 2 years away at this point. the 360 is the professional klingon defence forces similar to how starfleet in TNG was probably 400 ships. however when the war breaks out we'll see a rapid increase in production and a mobilization of the vast reserves the klingons have
No K'Vort BOP's??? The B'Rels seemed too old and weak to be the main BOP forces. By 2372 you'd think most BOP's involved in active combat would be K'Vorts.
Well they're different types designed to do different things. Based on the scaling from episodes of DS9, including "The Way of the Warrior", I think those BOP's are definitely K'Vorts, at least some of them. When compared to their close proximity to the Vor'Chas.
How can 100 klingon ships invade cardssian territory. Was the cardassian fleet very small. It doesnt sound like enough ships for capturing worlds and advancing to cardassia prime.
the problem is we have no idea how many ships the Klingons have total, Cradassians, Federation, etc. Sometimes it seems like the Federation has 100 ships, sometimes it seems like 5000. The writing changes so much its hard to keep track.
It's the economy of scale. Keep in mind we're still two years out from the Dominion war. Best estimate of the Pre-War Starfleet was about 400 total, spread out across the whole federation. The Klingons committed a third of their active military to the invasion, so at a conservative number, that's about 400 total, not counting the fact that the KDF only represents a small portion of the total Klingon fleet, so let's call it 800 if we assume 1:1 between the KDF and the Great Houses. The Cardie fleet was always smaller, so I'd say around 300 at best, guarding the entire union and worn down from the Maquis. IRL, Operation Iraqi Freedom saw just under 300 000 total troops squaring off against just under 500 000 total Iraqi forces (375k Iraqi Military, 300k+ total insurgents, republican guard, al-queada etc etc) And the Klingon fleet was deffs better equipped and prepared.
This short war showcased how hopelessly weak Cardassian Union is compared to the major powers. In their border "war" with the Federation, the Cardassians were able to use disproportionately heavy losses to exchange for a negotiated settlement, but they only fought what was essentially a Federation interdiction operation. The Federation never engage the Cardassians in an actual war and only sent a peacekeeping force of older ships. In a full scale war, the Cardassians are completely outmatched.
Yep. They got raped by the Klingons in a time when the Klingon Empire was ravaged by corruption, had become a declining power, and was barely able to compete with the Federation and Romulans.
Klingons at their worst >>>>> Cardassians in their prime
Although in the Cardassian's defense, they had just lost the Obsidian Order, Central Command and Cardassia was in a state of rebellion. With all this chaos going on the last thing they needed was a war with a major power.
At the time the federation had no stomach for an all out war. They were spoiled by the Golden Age that the Lost Era (after Undiscovered Country and before TNG) gave them.
@@bigevil1001 my take is that the Cardassian Union was a paper tiger militarily. But regardless, they were a major power economically and politically. The Obsidian Order played a major part in keeping the image both in the minds of their rivals and most importantly, their own populace.
So most of the arrogant Cardassians we saw in TNG and early DS9 *technically* didn't bluff. They truly believed they were stronger than they really were. The informed few like Order members like Tain and Garak, and high ranking politicians like Dukat played their cards for them.
With the fall of the Order and the desperate alliance with the Dominion, they were finally forced to dump resources into their military. Being less apt and powerful than they perceived themselves to be, the Cardassian government ended up paying more than their fair share of the war efforts. To the detriment of its people and soldiers.
Yeah, I think the Federation could have decimated the whole of Cardassia with ten Nebulas and a Galaxy.
not so sure they obviously had some good officers and success against the klingons because martok actually praised their fighting ability during the dominion war.
I'm a disabled American from Nowhereville, USA, but I've been an amateur Naval Historian for over 40 years. Your Star Trek based fleet battle videos are simply outstanding. I have read, listened and watched Naval battle stories for decades and your Star Trek based videos get better with each subsequent release. I subsist on an extremely low fixed income that's barely above the poverty level. If not for that fact I would surely donate to your channel and efforts. I subscribe and tell my friends about the channel at every opportunity, but I just wanted to express my joy at your latest work. Damn fine video..! I hope to see many more wonderful releases soon. Take care and as always, have fun out there... Roonok
I assume as a Naval Historian you have seen this: Venom and that guy in the following vid know what they are doing.
ua-cam.com/video/Bd8_vO5zrjo/v-deo.html
@@Stargetsu yeap. Subscriber to that channel as well. But, this channel has the best Star Trek based battle/ historical videos I've watched on UA-cam by far.
I am also a disabled American but see no point in mentioning that I am in fact, disabled, unless it is warranted. I don’t have a victim mentality. It got me far in life; my job and social life. I’m talking about my mentality, not my disability.
Last I heard, though, Stardate 490--.- doesn't equal MAY of the calendar year, however. More like January (see DS9 'Way of the Warrior')
No such place.
A blitzkrieg with warships.
Scary.
And the Vor'cha groups savaged their opponents. Whoa.
And 73 Epsilon. 73 Easting. What a massacre.
To quote Bill Hicks "This was not a war. See a war is when *TWO* armies are fighting". I think that sums up this battle pretty well, with the Cardassians just being utterly crushed
Xmen First Class, ..
White Queen Emma Frost, " War .. is when both sides has equal chance of winning. "
Because of the nostalgia brought on by these videos I bought the DS9 series. Didn't realize how much I missed the older shows.
Good show. I take three things from this. One Cardassians were used to fighting a non cloaking fleet thus the tactics employed by the Klingons threw them badly. Two, the officers of all orders were weak bureaucrats more interested in their cups of kanar than tactics and planning. Three, the Klingons learned from years of war with the federation on how to attack a non cloaking fleet of ships. Again great vid man I hope to see more of these. Also I love how you put up a number bar at the top 😁.
The cardassiams were used to fighting klingons and had many skirmishes and wars against them so they will be used to fighting enemy ships with cloaks. The cardassians were weakened by the disruption of their military. The central command was gone. The obsidian order was gone too i believe. Either would weaken the cardassians both would be very bad.
@@carolheward6479 then why with alot of outdated ships utterly spank the Cardi's badly. A Galor Class could wreck a wing of Brel class vessels, could outgun a K'vort class cruiser. The cardi's were equal to the klingons in firepower if not ships. So I fallback to weak bureaucrats more interested in getting sloshed than training and fighting.
Cardassian battle tactics were clearly poor here. They should have put all their ships in one place so the Klingons wouldn't be able to cloak and retreat like that picking their battles. I think Klingon ships having better firepower and the Klingon bloodlust were also big factors here. Think about it besides the brief civil war when was the last time the Klingons had a large scale war? At least 20 years right? So all of them were going wild and their morale was at a high point. I wonder how the dominion war would have played differently if the Klingons had never weakened the Cardassians and all the Alpha Quadrant powers stood together against the dominion from the start? On one hand I think it would have been easier for the Alpha Quadrant forces not having a foothold situation with the Cardassians joining the dominion. But on the other hand Sisko convinced the prophets to get rid of 2800 dominion reinforcements and scare them too much to send any more thru so I guess it evens out would you say?
The more accurate statement would be, "the invasion was masterminded by the changeling impersonating General Martok".
Your stories are made better with every new one, I´m already curious about next one, keep up the good work.
The Klingon/Cardassian War showed just how much the Federation held back against the Cardassians. A power with similar technology and power (the Klingons) were able to utterly curbstomp the Cardassians RIGHT up until the Dominion arrived after all.
I wonder how many hundreds of thousans of cardasian civilians died in the Klingon blitzkrieg you are salevating over.
@@miles2378 You do realize I'm pointing out the folly the Cardassians had taking on the stronger Alpha Quadrant powers.
@@robertbarrows6687 sorry I always seeing thes people on here and their revisionist history view on startrek as a means to advance a right wing agenda.
@@miles2378 Farthest thing from Right Wing here.
@@miles2378 None. The answer is none because this is fiction and never happened. Lighten up Francis.
It wasn't the Cardassian military that "crumbled", it was the Obsidian Order that crumbled after the disastrous (non)-surprise attack on the Dominion's Founders.
And without the order they had no intelligence capability
Yep losing the obsidian order would weaken the cardassian military but the loss of central command would have an equally bad effect. The klingons would be the stronger force anyway but the cardassiams were weaker than normal your right.
Central Command was not exactly on top of their game either, seeing how the civilian government got into power.
No wonder the Cardassians ended up joining the Dominion. It really was a desperate situation of survival for the Cardassian Union
I’m about to start this series…again.
I watched all of them as they were released, thus…this is my second trip thru.
I gotta say, in all honesty…this is just as entertaining to me as watching any of the Trek series on Para-plus.
You do a wonderful job with this stuff Mike!
Thank You for what you do and how you do it.
😎👍❤
This is great! I came here after finding your Daedalus class video and the battle of Betazed, I'll definitely be watching more. And "the battle of 73E," I see what you did there!
Again, I like these geopolitics videos about sci-fi; please do keep them coming.
quickly suddenly and with extreme aggression break your enemies back then ne3ver and at any cost never let them regroup and reorganize and by this method even a small force can destroy a larger one. two high ranking cardi officers one extremely skilled broken in 2 hours. simply awe-inspiring.
Encourage them to regroup, it is easier to net more fish that way, just don't given them the chance to reorganize.
It's almost like the battle off samar with taffy 3
That was a hell of a battle synopsis, great work dude
So amazing! Thank you for this! I find the Cardassians fascinating...always wanted details on these battles!
Bravo Venom Geek Media. Your storytelling capabilities are amazing!.
CBS should hire you for some of their storytelling. You really make trek lore into something that's downright fascinating.
I can't wait to see what you come up with next...
Edit... Sometimes bud... your videos are the highlight of my day...
If you don't do this for a living... you should...
80 years of peace? With the Betraka Nebula incident, the Tholian Conflict, the Tzenkethi War and the Cardassian Border Wars?
I mean those were really just border skirmishes
Well done! Logical, systematic, yet creative. When I know you are telling your own version of Star Trek history, I really enjoy your work.
Found your videos thanks to the collab. w/ Drach. Interesting what you did here, saddling the cardsssians with the historical weaknesses of the French Army (Distrusted by political leaders, poor comms/radio structure and adoption, limited pre-war training except as cadre) prior to the battle of France in 1940. Definitely got the underlying message that Cardsssians plans focused on fighting the last war, instead of preparing for future threats. Thanks.
The Klingon strategies are a lot more impressive than the Federation and Cardassians, and they reflects well on their cultures,
The Cardassians focus on more text book strategies with fleets sticking together in strict formation, which makes them difficult to break and focus on a strict command structure and unity where they overwhelm their opponents with numbers or firepower. However their tactics and strategies and easy enough to predict and pretty cut and dry and their strict command structure leaves little flexibility or initiative to be taken by their officers, where officers often hesitate or wait for orders/permission before acting and if the commander cannot give out clear orders to other ship, their unity is broken and they can be easily broken up and destroyed by their enemy during the confusion and their lack of skill.
The Federation strategies, on the other hand focus on the abilities of their more advance ships along with the flexibility or initiative taken by their skilled and capable officers, on the field, which gives them a distinct advantage and works well for them. However this can sometimes leads to miscommunication or lack of coordination between other fleet groups. In addition the Federation lack an aggressive nature needed to fully exploit their advantage of having a large pool of skilled command officers who can take the initiative when needed and having more advance ships. This lack of aggression often leaves the Federation on the defensive in war, where they are often more focused on keeping what they have than what they can take back or get. This in turn causes them to lose the momentum they gain after a victory where they slow their advance forward or stop all together, and lose the initiative, often allowing their enemies to fortify their lines and rebuild their forces to go on the offensive again.
The Klingon strategies, however are much more aggressive than the others, they focus on quick but brutal attacks, using their faster and more mobile ships to distract their opponents and break their opponents formations before dropping the hammer down on their disorganised enemy with their bigger and more powerful ships. The cloaks also give them an added advantage of not only making surprise attacks, but also allow the Klingons to bypass the more heavily fortified positions and to pick and chose their battles at will, as well as allow them to outflank enemy fleet units and surround them. However despite all their pros, their is a significate weakness to their strategy, which is that they are too aggressive, because they commit so much to the attack they leave little to nothing in reserve or defence, meaning that if an enemy is able to withstand their main assault they become vulnerable and are open to counterattacks and can often be pushed back with heavy loses. Also if an enemy is able to outflank them or come up behind them, they can do nothing to stop them and easily get overwhelmed and forced to retreat or are destroyed.
Absolutely wonderful video! Where did you find the info on the order of battle? The information regarding which ships were part of the klingon forces is great!
I bet when Madrid was going down, he was yelling "THERE. ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS!!!"
Gowron, man. Those eyes kill me. Looks like he just saw someone kick his dog... Er... targ.
he always does doesn't he. does he have a condition? is he high?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 he's just mad about all that Duras drama.
@@EdmundKempersDartboard is that a competitor to 'Keeping up with the Cardassians'?
That actor has played other charectors on Star trek.
Klingons have weaponized the Death Glare!
"Lightning War"... "Blitzkrieg".... I see what they did there...
AKA combined arms. but the Germans used it first.
@@IronWarhorsesFun ...... probably not, in the trek timeline.. hell, Klingons achieved warp in 1922. They probably came up with the concept in one of own earlier wars.
In real life, yes. The Germans did it first.
@@sagesheahan6732 Horse raiders have been doing " lightning wars " for centuries. What gave Germany the advantage during WW II, they drove tanks into parts of Eastern Europe that didn't even have cars yet. As for France, Demark, and Poland ... that is like looking at the USA and the state of Indiana invading the states surrounding it self.
There's actually nothing new about the Blitzkrieg methods that the Germans used in WW2. It's an old as fuck Sun Tzu proverb to hit the enemy quick and efficiently. Sun Tzu even argues that War itself should basically be a blitz. As is stated, a General should strive to end the war for his majesty as quick as possible, for war is expensive and prolonged conflict will drain the kings purse and deprive him of strong men to prepare his grain.
The proverbs refer to how in ancient times, up to 2/3rds of able bodied men would be levied into the army and this would severely hamper the economy of the warring nation since basic infrastructure in very important industry such as farming will have had it's primary labor force drastically reduced. Birth rates will drop during the period of war and a generation of children will be sent into the world with possible less education.
In the modern world, much of this still applies primarily as a cost of war weariness from the general population as well as the cost in taxes.
What the Germans did that was new was institute the first instance of truly Mechanized Warfare, using true Mobile Infantry units a long with Armor. Because the army was based on it's vehicular uses, it was meant to exploit extreme speeds that were not achievable with the typical advance on foot via what's known as "Hard/Forced March".
The Klingons here to me used a basic forced advance and leveraged Asymmetric warfare with the use of Cloak, which today is analogous with Stealth. This allows the Klingons to initiate combat on their terms and thus, can first hit advantages when engaging.
What this battle ACTUALLY reminds me of, isn't the Blitz of Poland. It's actually very reminiscent of the Alexander campaigns, specifically the Battle of Gaugamela. This was a battle in open field between Alexander and Darius in which Alexander HANDEDLY beat Darius in a brutal route. Much of the features of that battle, mimic the operation performed by the Klingons here. The Klingons advanced quickly but much like in 331 BC, Darius had time to assemble and prepare before Alexander's arrival since his army marched so slowly. In Sector 73 Epsilon, the Cardassians had forewarning hours before the battle which allowed them to also assemble and prepare.
The Cardassians setup a battle line VERY similar to Darius's battle line. Even Jargul Ocett, who can be seen as the intended "Darius of Persia" here, has entrenched herself deep within her "Order Guard" much like how Darius did with his finest Guard Infantry (Immortals) as per Persian tradition. She made herself a reserve force meant to crash on any Klingon momentum once it struck her battle line over seen by Gul Madred(s?). She ordered Gul to spread his battle line to the extreme because she so feared the Klingons exploiting the flanks that they ran their numbers thin as a result. This allowed the Klingons to easily pierce a whole in the defensive line and swarm it. Furthermore, by pure chance; Ocett's own forces were struck and while Ocett wasn't killed at the Asteroid her Reserve Guard fell back to, the Commander who failed to make a decision during that curical moment to engage or regroup is eerily similar to the effect that happened in Gaugamela, where Darius's Charioteer was slain via a thrown Spear and the Army looking on thought it was their KING that died, and thus they began to panic!
In 331 BC, Alexander was faced with a similar style of battle. His enemy, much like the Cardiassians, assembled their forced based on preconceived expectations that were observed in older battles. This is referred to as "Doctrine" in the Video but I wouldn't be so sure. Darius set up his army to seem as massive as possible to prevent any change of Alexander gaining any flank on his forces. He had figured Alexander would approach him much the same way as before in the previous two battles.
It was said that Alexander's forces were "Half of the Length" of Darius's army, showing just how long a battle line Darius formed. Alexander of course, did not approach Darius the same way. Darius had warning of his advance and had even had time to setup barriers and obstacles in the ground between them and the Macedonians. Alexander saw that the battle field was flat and very good for chariots, so he knew the risk that Chariots may shatter his Phalanx formations if not prepared. As in earlier battles, Alexander orders his formation in an oblique angle to the Persian Lines like before, with the Phalanx formation anchoring the center, a reserve heavy phalanx in the rear, and the forward Phalanx flanked by the Guard and Companion Calvary.
Once approaching, Darius initiated the battle by trying to hit Alexander's most aggressive flank, Alexander's Right flank. However he'd already partitioned his forces accordingly to counter the fast attack sent by Bessus. As Alexander's forced engaged, Darius's right flank (alexander's left flank, which was overseen by Parmenion) scrambled and mistakenly only engaged what they saw immediately ahead of them, which was Parmenion's forces and the Left Wing Guard units. Parmenion's only objective was to hold the line against any counter attack so he was well prepared for any sprung charges. Darius had not intended for his units on the Right of him to fully commit to Parmenion's forces. He needed some of that charge to actually hit directly towards Alexander's side, but communication and poor discipline was starting to show already.
By having the ENTIRE RIGHT FLANK of Darius committed to Parmenion's forces, this left a massive gap to the Left of Darius; an opening in the Battle Line. While the Levies (the poor and young) attempted to fill the gap, it was too late and Alexander saw his moment, and pierced the gap. He then struck from right to Left, into Darius's Left side from his POV, rampaging across the Persian line's face. This is when it was assumed Darius had been killed by a Spear Shot. A Counter attack was attempted to strike into the rear of Alexander but it was too late, the Reserve heavy infantry were already in position to thwart any such attempt.
The route witnessed that day was probably Alexander's greatest victory and it's very similar to how the Battle of Sector 73 Epsilon plays out.
Tonight at 11 in cardassian space DOOOOOOOM
would be intresting if you did a video on the brief kligon federation border war before martok was exposed as a founder.
You mean planned by the changeling impersonating Martok.
God bless you for all of your research and hard work i'm going through a very bad physical time right now and I might not live as long as I had hoped this is really bringing me some joy I will enjoy it for as long as my funds hold out and as long as I can afford Internet. Thank you and God bless you for this wonderful series when they do cut off My Internet I will have these stories playing in my mind and that brings me joy and when you're in the state I am, the community has programs to help you with housing until the curtain closes if you will. The next until the next heartbreaking change comes to pass to where I can no longer watch this until that time I will enjoy the peace these videos bring me and God bless you and thank you for the work you've done you don't know how much you've helped me I'm sorry to take up this much of your time but I wanted to let you know to someone who's leaving far too early in my opinion I just wanted to thank you you are good people good men great humans
I know this is old, but I really enjoy this style of video. I've seen this style in other fandoms, but not in Star Trek. Well done! I'll be checking out more of your videos.
glad you like it, what are similar videos you've seen?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I'm thinking specifically of Arch in the Warhammer 40k fandom. You both seem to approach lore from a well rounded point of view, and I appreciate that.
I see you consider the axanar timeline canon. Welcome brother.
Thanks for this! The klingons really kicked the crap out of the cardassians! It's a wonder how they were able to hold the klingons off till they joined the dominion.........
Cardassians learn quickly long term the invasion was a powerful learning experience for them. and it Weeded out the incompetent elements of the Cardassian officer corps.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 yeah surviving an ass beating like that would make you learn very quickly
The Klingons were also in a state of war with the Federation too and couldn't devote their full resources to the war with the Cardassians without potentially leaving themselves open to a potential counter attack by the Federation or the Romulans taking advantage of the situation
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Thing what Cardassians failed to realize is that Federation has not only has technological but also numerical advantage. That in most cases they face obsolete ships like Excelsior and Miranda, working in duty of border patrol and exploration. Federation not only originally fail to secure whole region, allowing colonization. But also hesitate to send fleet from Romulan-Klimngon border to clean the job. Fearing possible invasion from actual enemy forces. Anyway. It is quite interesting to see Federation dealing with over aggressive colonial power for once, instead cold war scenario. DS9 was somewhat prophetic in change of the focus from the Cold War.
I look forward to your videos with great enthusiasm,
I love how you get in to the videos you have such enthusiasm.
keep up the great work...!!!!
Wait... Wasn't quote "Martok" already switch out for a changeling imposter during this War and it's planning?
That's really worrying that changelings have a needed genius and tact to seamlessly manage and bring out the strengths of the Klingon fleet.
I am now very worried about the Dominion...
Yes, we never even see the real Martok until Garak and Worf are taken to the Internment Camp just before the Dominion comes through the wormhole.
The picture of Martok at 2:14 shows him with an eye missing, which was lost by the real general in a POW camp in combat with the Jem Hadar guards, after his ambush and covert replacement by the changeling. The changeling imitating Martok always appeared with two eyes, so this is technically a 'continuity glitch'.
I do like the detail you put into describing the ships
Awesome vid.
It all makes sense. Makes me think of a naval version of of Operation Barbarossa.
supposedly both ocet and madred both survived the dominion war at least acording to novels.
At least Garek was right about a Cardassian novel that predicted a war against the Klingons.
Sound battle tactics! I think even War Colleges/Military Academies might want to start using your series to their classes. As an instructor, I would, depending upon the subject, either end or begin the class with one of these videos.
you flatter me sir.
War Colleges/ Military Academies were at one time an elite special section of education which very few had the privilege going to. Deemed " classified "
Then online video gaming change all that, such information can no longer be claimed as " state secrets."
Other side note, raptors dive attack from above the target prey. Also face to face ship/ tank combat you want to keep a lower profile to keep from being hit. From a high advantage the top surface of the ship has a wider target area. DS9 didn't show the BoP making enough dive attacks.
These are so well written, I'm loving them.
Your star trek battle videos remind me of the discovery Channel show" Wings "from the 90s. Great material your creating, keep it up
that was the original inspiration. if your new then 'Wings of Romulus' will be right up your street its the most closely based on wings. this one is actually more based on 'Greatest tank battles.'
That show was so awesome I try to watch it when it's super rarely on.
@@metalmike5141 there are some on youtube.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Also, why is this blitzkrieg set in May? Stardate suggested January.
@@chrissonofpear1384 i may have made a gaffe using the star trek online calculator rather than the tng calculator.
Someone's been reading Citino!
2:00 Chancellor Gowron, Son of M'Rel. Klingon Imperial Empire.
I really enjoy watching these videos they R really cool i can't wait 2 c your nxt video
Love these videos. Keep up the good work and I hope to see some videos on the Dominion War. Those would be absolutely awesome! Thanks again!
Clever wordplay on "73 Epsilon", aka 'Easting'...
You might be the first to notice.
Absolutely love these videos man. Any thoughts on the Cardassian orbital weapon platforms at Chin'toka? I don't see how Cardiassians could have such a powerful platform and shields. Did the Dominion help develop them despite they looked like Cardassian tech?
Amazing video cant wait for the next one 😁😁😁
I guess it was a good thing for Garak when he was telling Dr. Bashir about a hypothetical war between Cardassians and Klingons on a holo novel, and Bashir asked who wins, with Garak smugly asking, "Who do you think?", that Quark didn't jump in and ask Garak if he wanted to take a 100/1 bet on the winning side.
I recently came across your channel, love watching your videos especially the battle space one's hope you make many more 👍
Wow great job! I love the animation
Since it's mentioned in the video, I would love to see Battlespace cover the Four Years W
ar.
After the cardassian-klingon war, colonel Greikgok later changed his name to kanchar and joined the galactic empire.
I like the term 'Lightning War'.
We Germans call it 'Blitzkrieg' XD
@Venom Geek Media 98 -
hahaha, the KJlingons do "Blitzkrieg" @ 2:56 LOL
80 ships? that seems small.
Do you have the spelling for your Klingon words (The operation and tactic names)? I can’t seem to make them out.
These thing and how you tell them is awesome thank you
So basically, the Cardies get their asses kicked every time they fight a professional enemy? Honestly not surprised.
Ocett never died tho
2:13 was it General Martok or was he replaced by then? I've always assumed that the whole war was the Dominion doing 4d chess to destabilize the alpha quadrant to get the Cardassians the give them a foothold with open arms.
changeling
The battle of 73 easting I mean epsilon showcases how naval combat in Star Trek evolves into mobile warfare
Amazing negative. 👏🏾
Love your vids 🙌🏾🔥
Beautifully told. 💪🏼💯🏆 Excellent video👏👏👏
Well, in the end it was not Martok, it was a Changeling posing as.
Any way you'd do a video covering the battles between the Klingons and Cardassians years before this? The Betreka nebula incident i recall it being referred to in the DS9 episode The Way of the warrior.
Look up Venom Geek. He has literally just done a video about a major battle in that war.
'it was a minor skirmish'
'it lasted 18 years!'
Love DS9 ☺
definitely an intresting prospect. im not certain when it was but i think it pre-dates even the federation border war.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 In the novels, it took place 2328 to 2346, in various mild skirmishes, as shown in the book 'The Art of the Impossible' (Lost Era miniseries)
I believe those were a series of border skirmishes between the Cardassians and minor Klingon Houses.
One question I have, is if Jagul Ocett's ship was destroyed, how would you explain her being instrumental in influencing the Battle of Cardassia Prime at the end of the Dominion War?
so thats Beta cannon which i choose whether or not to include it. in this instance i thought it more fitting she die fighting the klingons.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 at least Akelen Macet wasn't involved in the battle.
@@freezetasticvoyage19 maybe Macet will be leading the Cardassian fleet at the end of the war and gives the order to turn on the Dominion ;)
Yeah, I admit. I'm a huge fan for this kind of content and I'm not even a huge Star Trek fan.
Another great video. Love your videos. Keep it up
None of the events you described ever took place in canon, but I guess you could say they were interpolated. As Picard would say, "Well done. Well done, indeed."
It's meant to be the battle that was happening off-screen in way of the warrior
It kills me the federation gave up on cloaking devices. The Romulans def got the better end of the deal.
That seems to be a running theme, that the Federation are so obsessed with having peace and getting out of potential conflict, that they are more than willing to take a crap deal if it means getting out of an immediate potential conflict, even if it almost guarantees a worse conflict later down the line
@@weldonwin Vulcan influence
The Federation been in a lot of wars for people who like peace 😂😂😂
Those Kardashians never stood a chance against those Tingle wings and Burrells
***Sometimes I ❤ The autogenerated CC***
sir, first, love these videos. second... WHERE do you get your information on different formations and battles?
Head Canon
Were the Cardassians ever a major power? When was their first contact with the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Borg, Breen? When did they discover warp? When did they first achieve warp 5 and 7? How does this chronology of warp compare with Vulcan, Klingon, Romulan, Ferengi, Breen chronology? There were minor civilizations in STE, I forget their name, that developed warp 7 before Starfleet. How does the warp chronology of said minor species in STE compare with that of Cardassians?
intresting question. we know from ENT "observer effect" that the cardassians were knocking about in the 22nd century given the Dialogue of Gul Madred in "Chain of Command" we can conclude that this was a different era and cardassian technology was likely very stagnant up until the late 23rd century at which point successive wars with the tenztheki and Talarians bring a complete collapse to cardassian society at which point the military took over.
after that cardassian tech evolves at an incredible rate through the 24th century.
They were always described as a 3rd rate power
this was simply awesome!.
Nice work, l like all your videos friend
73 Epsilon? Where have I heard this before 😉
"In the 23rd century... there is only war"
this one is 24th though
Which Galor variant was the one that was shown on the normal front line Edit: You mentioned a Galor 1, just curious over what happened to the Galor 3s and Keldons which was mentioned in TNG and DS9
Galor 1s entered service during the border war and had blue deflectors by the 70s the would be refitted into 2 or 3s
Galor 2s entered service during TNG and had yellow deflectors, and pink energy weapons.
Galor 3s entered service in late TNG red deflector. Gold energy beams. What we mostly see in early ds9
The 3* was produced after joining the dominion. It'd the CG model.
Definitely much more than "over 100" . DS9 quotes hundreds of ships between them and Cardassia. Worf says its a full 1/3 of the entire KDF.
A third of the KDF might be around some ships. Most of the klingon fleet belongs to the variuse houses
The primary problem for the Cardassian was not the lack of experience and skill of its commanders, although those were shortcomings. The Carddassian fleet is 50 to 100 years behind in technology. The Galor or even Galor II would be an even match for a 100 year old Excelsior when it was first deployed or the Vorcha which came about 50 years ago. BY the time of this war, the Klingon's are fielding K'Vort class battle cruisers instead of Vorcha class battle cruiser and the Federation has moved on to Excelsior's replacement, the Sovereign as the mainline combat cruiser for Star Fleet. This does not take into account the Federation exploration cruiser lines of Ambassador and its replacement the Galaxy, nor even the multi-purpose cruisers Miranda and its replacement, Nebula. The Klingons field the Negh-var but it is mostly a fleet flagship and there are few of them. Only 4 were ever seen in all of Star Trek and 2 were in one episode being obliterated by a Galaxy.
yeah the negh'var is an extremely dangerous ship... when it actually gets there.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I agree - on paper. The problem is that from what we see of the Negh-var it is a royal barge. We see it in the DS9 mirror episode hauling the regent around and getting butt-spanked by a Defiant. We see another in the attack on DS9 and until the boarding party is it not in the fight. Of the two in All Good Things, one is blown apart by the upgraded Enterprise-D and the other disengages after being crippled, by the Enterprise-D at the same time.
Every other time we see it, it is serving in a non-combat role - hauling people around. It somewhat reminds me of the Japanese Battleship Yamato. Always meant for the BIG battle battle but it spends all its time doing nothing so when the time comes to shoot, the crew is green and the ship is not up to battle condition.
What happened to the border war series didn’t see a video
i'm still doing that but i needed to take a break and write something different.
2:16 General Martok or “General Martok” is the question.
These videos are fantastic. But how did you get that number 120 ships * 3 is 360 is the Klingon Empire fleet sive ???...... the Klingons at the end of the war had 1500 ships and that was their forces completely depleted. It was stated 1,500 ships were outnumbered ten-to-one for Klingon?
yeah so bear in mind the dominion war is still 2 years away at this point. the 360 is the professional klingon defence forces similar to how starfleet in TNG was probably 400 ships.
however when the war breaks out we'll see a rapid increase in production and a mobilization of the vast reserves the klingons have
No K'Vort BOP's??? The B'Rels seemed too old and weak to be the main BOP forces. By 2372 you'd think most BOP's involved in active combat would be K'Vorts.
Kvorts were a kind of stop-gap. Outmoded after the vorcha entered service....
Well they're different types designed to do different things. Based on the scaling from episodes of DS9, including "The Way of the Warrior", I think those BOP's are definitely K'Vorts, at least some of them. When compared to their close proximity to the Vor'Chas.
History Channel of the 90's but for Star Trek.
Glorious
Glory to you and your youtube channel
How can 100 klingon ships invade cardssian territory. Was the cardassian fleet very small. It doesnt sound like enough ships for capturing worlds and advancing to cardassia prime.
Wait a minute general martok was in an dominion internment camp. So how did he plan the Champaign?
Once again the money loving Klingon admiral was left on the side lines...the infamous Admiral Kerching
Did you use the battle of 73 Easting as a reference for this battle? It's quite similar.
They just blitzkrieg'd straight through the line... Wow.
Gul Dukat......what a great character he is.
Great video, but the Klingon had thousand's of ships why attack with just a small number??
They didn't attack with a small fleet! The Klingons sent one-third of their fleet to fight the Cardassians. That had to be over a thousand ships easy.
I think he said it about 140 ships which attacked cardassia
@@starbugmechanic5236 Understood, but a lot more participated. 140 ships could not have defeated the entire Cardassian Union.
the problem is we have no idea how many ships the Klingons have total, Cradassians, Federation, etc. Sometimes it seems like the Federation has 100 ships, sometimes it seems like 5000. The writing changes so much its hard to keep track.
Did the Klingons really only use 100 to 150 ships to invade Cardassia? That seems too small.
It's the economy of scale. Keep in mind we're still two years out from the Dominion war. Best estimate of the Pre-War Starfleet was about 400 total, spread out across the whole federation. The Klingons committed a third of their active military to the invasion, so at a conservative number, that's about 400 total, not counting the fact that the KDF only represents a small portion of the total Klingon fleet, so let's call it 800 if we assume 1:1 between the KDF and the Great Houses.
The Cardie fleet was always smaller, so I'd say around 300 at best, guarding the entire union and worn down from the Maquis. IRL, Operation Iraqi Freedom saw just under 300 000 total troops squaring off against just under 500 000 total Iraqi forces (375k Iraqi Military, 300k+ total insurgents, republican guard, al-queada etc etc)
And the Klingon fleet was deffs better equipped and prepared.
360 ships cant be all of the Klingons forces or the Dominion war would have been over in mere days.
360 was the size of their standing professional military.
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