Why high volume is not the answer for hypertrophy
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- Опубліковано 19 лют 2019
- You will often hear Coach Thib say that excessive volume if the #1 enemy of the natural trainee. Here, Chris quotes a recent study and points out where this study fails to address several important elements regarding sets, reps, weight, exercise selection, muscle fiber activation and more. A tribute to Coach Thib’s reknown analytical style.
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Looks like Vin Diesel sounds like George St Pierre! 😂
Lol
Has plenty of shoulders and arms and no pecs
thats because he's french canadian...like George
Vin Diesel is a fat fuck
That was a great call haha
He has big muscles and a shaved head so I trust him
SuperLotus 😆👍🏾
Sure, and roids have nothing to with that, he is all natural.
Yeah ...went bald nothing to do with the gear...bet
oh and he's smart...there's that as well
Coops you don’t go bald from roids
This channel should get a lot more views.
Hi thib do you think one top rest pause set is the best overall method? Thns
i didn’t even know thibarmy was a youtube channel.... ive been a long time tnation fam
I trust you more than any study. 🌷
The problem with studies like that is that they are conducted with untrained people.
Facts. My dad greg told me that. He is a doctor
Mike Schmidt 😂😂😂
And nattys.
Nullvektor the mantle
Yup. He is not saying if these people were natural or not. Naturally takes years to actually grow muscles. Using steroids is different.
Why is this recommended to me 8 month later? You slacking UA-cam.
lmao same.
Likely because I just started being active on UA-cam. This video, for some reason, got a lot of views and as a result, UA-cam likely started recommending it more ... it's an algorithm thing I suppose.
This discussion is a hot topic right now between Jeff Nippard, Greg Ducette, Jeff Cavalier and many others.
I feel like I don't have the same pump , when I go heavy/ less reps. I just don't know what to do amymore, for gains..
@@mikerotonda6264 well,..you are correct. Tho he is talking about hypertrophy, not the pump
Christian, even after 45 years of natural training I am learning and you are correct! I am now focusing more on getting to my work set weight, resting more between sets and decreasing my overall volume, and making sure I get to the gym for my 3-day plan instead of trying to add day 3 (shoulders and arms) onto my split full body WO days 1&2. It is working! My strength is returning (even at 63) and I am even getting pumps! I was wearing myself out with too much intensity on each set, too little rest, and too many movements per body part. Natural training should be smart intensity and brevity.
This guy is awesome!!! Clearly knows what he's doing and what he's talking about
Very detailed breakdown...thank you
I like this guy because he is very knowledgeable and his drive and passion for exercising is amazing.
Probably the best content on strength and fitness on You Tube. Great science and succinctly presented. But, the real world practicality is what makes this so good. If you train naturally, this is great stuff.
Excellent tutorial Coach CT. Thank you for clarifying this very important training point for naturals
One of the best in the Industry !!
Thanks for all you do
Oh thank you ! Finally someone explains it so it makes sense. And! This is precisely how my body responds.
Thank you for the intelligent discussion on the subject.
The problem with high volume training is that you tend to hold back to a certain degree. Meaning you limit yourself to a certain rep range. Unlike high intensity training where you push a muscle to failure hence more muscle breakdown.
Incredibly well explain, very reasonable and beneficial, thank you brother.
Great video explaining the concept of training volume for hypertrophy
This is by far the best answer I have heard around the topic. Thanks
Damn, GSP has been hitting the weights hard
Are you intoxicated?
@@vladimirerfan7721 i am not impressed by your performance
Never heard it explained that way...excellent. John
Coach, appreciate your contents, it always makes so much of sense.
And it's very easy to understand. Watching your video alone saves me from releasing too much of cortisol lol.
Very interesting view! Thanks for sharing!
I started doing 3 sets per exercise doing 6-8 reps per set to muscle failure and past year switched to doing 2 sets per exercise with 15-20 reps per sets to muscle failure and my gains have been insane. I feel like lowering your total sets in the gym is more important than lowering the reps, because when you use light weight to failure you can stretch and contract the muscle better.
How many exercises per muscle group?
Marco Baratta for chest, back and quad and hamstring I’ll do 4 exercises. For delts, bicep and tricep I’ll do 2 exercises. So maybe a total of 10-12 sets and my workouts only last an hour but the muscle soreness I feel is just muscle, no joint or cns fatigue. My muscles will twitch and feel funny hours after I leave the gym.
Zachary McGee thanks man!
I'm on the same page these days. Can completely fatigue a muscle better than every before with 15-20 rep sets. I used to think that was impossible until I tried it. Here I am with roasted biceps 2 days later and only one set till failure...
Your gains were not insane. You might be insane but your gains sucked just like most bros in the gym. Christian was completely correct about his take on this
Perfect, amazing job!
I just discovered your channel today. Great content, congrats!
Great explanation. Thank you.
The best fitness channel on UA-cam.
Very detailed breakdown. Thank you
For 15 years I was following a typical 5-day/week bro split with high volume as a natural. Last year I discovered DC training and am so happy I did. I now train only 3 days/week (but with jump rope on some of my off days for cardio) and do only 1-2 heavy/intense working sets after whatever warmup sets I need to do. Wow, what a difference it makes! I'm making better gains in less time, and less days of working out each day. Yes, I'm still sore, but nowhere near as sore as working out 5-days/week! Most gurus don't preach "less is more" in bodybuilding, especially for naturals.
Amazing analysis. 👍
This is an underrated video.
This man deserves alot more subcribers
Always interested in hearing what Thibs has to say.
Just shows how much Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer were ahead of their time, their principles were taken to the mountain top when Dorian Yates walked the Olympia 6 times in a row!
Not really, but you've been duped into thinking so.
Awesome video!
Agree 100%. I switched to heavier weights less sets and less time in the gym. More sleep and recovery. Guess what. What a suprise my size and strength took off. I made more gains in 4 months doing this then 2 yrs training the other way. If your not on the juice this is the best way to train.
What does week look like?
awesome to hear, check out Mike Mentzer, the father of HIT (high intensity training) who proposed exactly what you're doing. He emphasized recovery above all else to go back into the gym as hard as possible.
Just makes sense. Thanks.
Excellent observation
Amazing information, thank you... This specific information is very important for the average gym goer that just wants to get fit and look like he can lift something, but shockingly, it's pretty rare to see someone talking about it specifically.
Excellent!!! Subscribed ✅✅✅
Being a natural lifter in mid 30s, and having a high stress job while pursuing a graduate degree, I found that progressing though low-moderate-high volume phases works really well for me. Each phase is about a month long, where I deload after each phase. It loosely resembles something Mike Israetel preaches.
Voycodin this is most likely the optimal way to build muscle. Especially for a busy natural in their 30’s
Voycodin same!
Do you have a link to an example program, or to anything that talks about this in more detail?
Voycodin this is a very smart and simple way to train. The body is all about simplicity. Patience is the key to all training principles.
@@spodergibbs5088 46 and train 6 days a week. Mind you , I'm an ex powerlifter/bodybuilder
Well done. Agreed, from personal experience.
I learned about him reading an article on isometrics. What a treasure.
if he doesn’t say “tren hard” then anything out of his mouth is untrustworthy
Eat clen
Anavar give up guys
Test your limits.
Dbolish your goals.
man I learned alot from your articles in T nation when I began
Salut super bon channel mon chum, i am 47 from near Montreal. I just got back into heavy lifting after wasting lots of time with high volume programs, been training for 35y.
Honest all you need is 3 x 5 squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, cleans, bent rows.... i been doing this for about 6 months and i gained some nice muscle mass while shedding fat with a good nutritional plan.
I did high reps when in rehab for lower back pain, honest i never gained any size etc.... lifting heavy is all you need.
Excellent!
Nailed it again!
Damn. You're good Tib.
Well said!
I can see where alot of junk volume would be unnecessary, however, metabolic stress is also a pathway for hypertrophy. Some amount of extra volume can be seen as Conditioning Volume(CV). So if using your doing 70%(12RM) but at 2RIR so 4 sets of 10 reps(6ER)(4CV) which is 40 Reps, you get (24ER)(16CV), vs 75%(10RM 4x8(6ER)(2CV) which is 32 Reps (24ER)(8CV). Higher reps can also increase time under tension which will aid in Forearm development in exercises where grip is used. I mean, you can train forearms to combat that.
Now, if we use 80% as total recruitment, and you did what I call a Quad Cluster Triple 3[4]4 that is 3 reps[4 breaths pause]4 times(sets) that would all be at ER Load so that is 12ER. If you did 3 sets of those clusters, that would be 36ER(12ERx3). However, 80% is around 8RM, and only doing 3 rep clusters, your first three reps would be real 5RIR, but your second cluster would offset RIR due to fatigue accumulation from short rest pause. Now, all reps are at Effective Percentage, however, they are sort of higher RIR. This may be good from a strength perspective, but as far as hypertrophy, maybe not so much. (not for everyone). Now if you were to further increase the pause to 10 breaths between the 3 rep clusters, you would never get fatigue accumulation and the RIR would not offset, and you would never really get the burn or Metabolic stress.
What I am saying is, some junk volume may be necessary for use when you need to deload, or when you start to plateau, you can switch to lower percentages and higher reps.
You have some bodybuilders that typically only do higher rep work. 15 reps with light load, but short rest period of 20 seconds. By set 3 that light load and burn is so intense, that some will fail from the burn, although they are not at muscular failure, they are at mental failure due to burn.
I am more of an advocate of DC style Rest Pause training, to failure around rep 10, and with a twist, first Rest pause of 15 breaths, but doing 4 rest pauses and increasing the amount of breaths(time) between pauses, so I can continue to get higher ER over the 4 rest pauses. I also feel that using a 12RM, but 2RIR, so doing 10 reps, has worked well with my own recent research on my own body. I am currently going to run next, a study on myself, regarding cluster sets and 85% loading.
Great videos though. Keep it up.
Good analysis.
How would you factor in TUT in all this tho ?
Because a rep is not the same for everyone. I can use a 20RM load and tweak it so i fail at the 10th rep simply by slowing the tempo.
Wouldn’t TUT be a better indicator of hypertrophy than counting reps ?
Knowing that glycogen stores in the muscles completely deplete within 20-30 seconds at a 80% load, and glycogen utilisation is the producer of lactic acid... If i managed to do a slow tempo set which ensured failure within 30 seconds, wouldn’t i still trigger hypertrophy regardless if i did a high or low rep set ?
Whats your take on that ?
Nice. Very smart.
Someone bring this man a trophy. He is making more for us than most scientists i know
Such a knowledgeable dude. Learned a lot from him on tnation over the years. One program took my deadlift from 425 to 495
Which program, can you name it.. also do you know any good program for benching and OHP
@@amit4rou think it was this one
www.t-nation.com/workouts/915-workout-program
After benpakulski..this guy seemed very straight to the point with easy explaination!!..liked!..subscribed within 20second of watching video!..let me mentione I rarely subscribe someone..
This is great.
Genius. I feel like my cortisol easily increases as I feel terrible from over training mentally. Took me 13 years to realise time to finally losten to my body and mind
Mike Mentzer said this 30 years ago and people laughed at him. I train once a week all body. And I got my best gains in strength and size doing so. What young guys especially do not get. Is you dont GROW IN THE GYM. You grow when you are resting. Many people start breaking down the fibres again BEFORE it has fully recovered and built that little bit of extra size and strength on top.
And that's how you become over trained. Pick up unnecessary injuries. And hit SIZE AND STRENGTH PLATEAUS.
I've seen this many times with guys at the gym. Stuck on a certain weight forever. Because the dont understand they're over trained. And the body is begging them for more recovery time. But they cannot understand less is actually MORE. When it comes to weight training. They see riders training like machines with their fake muscles and strength. And think they as naturals can do the same. NATURE CANNOT BE RUSHED BY ANYONE. If you body needs 96 hours to fully recover and grow from a workout. And you train it every 48 hours. You're simply WASTING YOUR TIME AND MONEY.
By that logic, dudes in prison would all be skin and bones.
@@ts9271 'dudes' in prison get steroids too...besides that that's ALL they do and sleep. It is not like they have the job to go too...sheesh
@@eldragon4076 whats your point? Original comment said he trains once a week and is in great shape, going on to explain how working out more often doesnt lead to optimum muscle growth. Guys in prison workout every single day and most of them are huge.
Mike Mentzer was a dogmatic idiot. Of course you can train every 48 hours... you just adjust volume/intensity and use periodization
I've said this to many people about only training 3 days a week, MWF, compounds movements, and that's it. The moment I said that I was baffled at how many people thought I had to be joking and that I was crazy. Mentioned 5x5 routine, 3 exercises(A and B days), the dude straight up said "That does not sound like a good idea". Yet I've been able to make consistent strength gains(Squat, Bench, Overhead Press, Deadlift). I see SO many guys doing 14,000 exercises and doing 3 exercises at the same time. It's like after 1-2 sets they do another exercise, a few sets then another. It looks like bunny hopping. I don't pay attention to a lot of what people are lifting in the gym, but I don't see many lifting more weight than last time. I especially don't see a ton of people squating because of fears of flexability, hurting their knees. Ever since I Squat and Deadlift on a regular basis, I have no such issues. Another thing, safety pins, I feel like I'm the only guy at my gym who uses those for my squat and bench. I remember one time I was doing a squat when I was with a personal trainer, set up the safety pins, the guy straight up took them off. BIG NO-NO. But he was more into quarter squats than breaking parallel.
Perfectly said.
Intéressant. Merci
Very informative
There are two kinds or ways to increase muscle size - sarcoplasmic and actual muscle fiber hypertrophy. The pro bodybuilders generally work towards the sarcoplasmic method (high reps - medium weight). All that does is cram water and glycogen into the muscle cell which causes an expansion in size. Lifting heavy weights, as advocated in this video, actually increases the muscle fiber size in order to handle the heavy stress. We've all seen the pro bodybuilders and pro wrestlers who quit lifting and then lose all their muscle size. That's all the water and glycogen leaving their puffy muscles since there is no more stimulus. On the other hand, muscles built by heavy lifting pretty much stay with you for a lifetime. They DO get weaker since they're not lifting as heavy as before but the size stays. A study has shown that men lose strength twice as fast as muscle size (if they have real muscle fiber growth). The sarcoplasmic crowd loses size almost immediately and they never really had the strength to begin with. I remember seeing a famous pro bodybuilder who broke his arm. After six week the cast came off and his arm was now back to normal human size while the other arm was still huge. Sarcoplasmic muscles are about as useless as synthol muscles.
Muscle from heavy lifting does NOT stay with you for a lifetime. This is a fallacy. Muscle will atrophy without stimulation, no matter how you built it. Evolution desighned us to conserve energy and not waste resources. Muscle requires resources, so will be lost, down to base level, if not required.
Just found this channel. New sub!
barbell rdls are my favorite exercise for dee amstring my favorite coach by far love ya tibbs
I've been following this advises,before I was doing high volume sets, I noticed I was just not bulding muscle,I was sore all the time,was getting skinnier,I change my routines to higher weight low reps and I've seen increase in muscle size , I don't get sore that much and the type of soreness I get is quite enjoyable,thanks for advises like these !!!!!
Whats your program? What % do you work from etc ?
Same here bro I've been doing lots of volume 6 days a week I first made some gains and after some time I was making no more gains I was always sore my joints were sore and I had no motivation left working out felt like labour then I started to cut down the volume and increased my training frequency training my body parts thrice a week with low volume I feel so much better m always feel motivated going to gym if fun again though I'm making the gains at a snail's pace but it's already the 5th year of my training and I should be ok with it.
Answer is at 6:15..
Thank you
Here we have a jacked Johnny sins getting the scene ready before it’s go time
Point taken 👍
Awesome 6-10 has always been my range . I always go after great form over weight and control. Great reps over a particular number. Over 9 months and a lockdown that took the gym away I’ve gone from 135 lbs at 5’10 to 160lbs with of course some fat gain my no doubt mostly muscle. People think I’ve been working out for 2 years or so but nope 9 months. My numbers aren’t incredible 145lb bench for reps 225 lb squat for reps 225 lb deadlift for reps (haven’t tested in forever) . I don’t really test max. And by reps I mean 6-10 or for bench 5 .
Stick to MAX OT TRAINING using 4-6 reps on ONLY THE COMPOUND MOVEMENTS. Isolation movements, use 12-15 reps. This works for HYPERTROPHY!!👍
Good content.
Glad you enjoyed it
So good
I believe this yes but I’ve been training with volume and have gained massive muscle so im good do what you guys feel comfortable with and mix it up to find whats right for you cause I was training lightweight prior to heavy lifting
I always thought that volume means two aspects of training: total load(reps x load = total loading) or, as a way of progression, number of sets. So I trained, for years, 3 sets of 8-12 reps and when I couldn't progress in weight(which came pretty soon) I did add one set and than another, before rest(kind of a deload). As a way of adding stimulus, I was cautious of TUT while repping... Well, that was a too much volume for me, even when I trained muscle group once a week - after a while, my whole body was beaten, not musclegroups per se and here is the explanation why, in this video.
Last 5 months I am executing DC training, with same awareness for eccentric part of a rep, with a higher frequency but much less volume, one rest pause set and with emphasis on load(weight) progression. I see better results than before and I feel fresh an hour after the workout (and huge meal 😁).
It turns out that Cortisol was the Devil
How many hours per day?
@@jetfu400 hours per day of training? You mean how long is my workout? (english is not my native language, apologies...)
Vin Diesel is an actor and this is the guy he's playing any time he's not on camera.
Christian you really know your stuff
He is so right especially if your natural and don't take PED's.
Less weight is 'less' work, so 30% of 1RM for 30 Reps will be similar to 80% of 1RM for 10 Reps. In other words work is proportional to the load or weight being moved not simply a function of the number of reps.
Brother, cortisol has a half life of 66 minutes. By the time your workout ends and you're into your rest phase for recovery it is all but back to normal levels regardless of how much extra you may have released during your workout. Cheers.
Exactly and while i do agree with a lot of thibaudeau's advices i think he does over exaggerate the negative effects of cortisol.
@@user-rm8by9fm cortisol doesn't lower testosterone in only inhibits testosterone production, which is not a problem since small fluctuations in testosterone do not have any superphysiological effects. chronic cortisol elevation is bad but a high volume workout is not going to do jack shit to your baseline testosteterone levels
I don't think you understand what half life means. You will not be back to normal levels in 66 minutes.
Makes sense!
Incredible bro science
👍👍 💪 Im so glad i found this guy. 1 question how many sets ? Thanks
At the end he said to failure, his recommendations is set at 6-8 rep range and then working it until failure.
Pavel Tsatsouline in his Russian bear program recommends sets of 5 and working until FORM failure, always stopping one or two reps before you reach failure.
In low-volume training, maximal muscle fiber recruitment cannot be guaranteed. Thats the big difference here. Thats why powerlifters benefit from low volume training; they follow the “max effort mindset” that most bodybuilders (including regular gym enthusiasts) do not possess. Im on both sides of the coin here because I follow all kinds of training, but I will say that a key takeaway that everyone should take from this video is that high-volume training should incorporate some form of carb loading pre-workout (better during workout) to replenish glycogen if performance is the goal. If physique is the goal, I think high intensity should be prioritized along with TUT and mind muscle focus, all before high volume training. If those priorities are met (in order), then high volume can be incorporated via periodization. 80% of your max is fine but you’ll hit a wall with a mindset like that; just go for RPE 8-10 depending on how your feeling (feeling strong go for 9-10 & low volume that day). MIX IT UP THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER
Go deeper into the super sets + drop sets ideal rep range. I don't like high rep sets above 8 reps but i sometimes like to do supersets @80% (5 reps) and than another 5 reps. Gives me a better feeling than 10 reps without superset.
Wow!! That was super interesting
Precisely!!
you have new subscriber!
I think there are more benefits to high reps, like lactic acid buildup for stimulating growth, so do low reps at the beginning of the workout, and high at the end
100% RIGHT
Oh wow, goodlooking muscle man!💪😉👍
I do HIT and recently started to consume a tbs of brown sugar prior to the work out in order to avoid burning through muscle stores of energy. Heard this from an old school body builder.
This makes so much sense. Can anyone confirm this?
It's important to remember that research like this gives hope to people who don't have access to much weight or only use bodyweight. The extra volume really help muscle growth. If you have access to appropriate weight tho do use it.
Exactly just ask Joel Kellett. I think he looks pretty damn good as a natural doing high volume 6x/week workouts.
@@user-X8X8012 He sells program routines on his more than muscle Australia site. It's all there. I enjoyed his 12 week muscle building program but couldn't finish it due to time constraints. You need a lot of time on your hands every day to complete the 90 mins-2 hours daily routines. It's high volume hitting each muscle from every angle. Low weights w/ perfect rep range.
@@user-X8X8012 Yeah man it's definitely high volume, 3 stages(4 days rotation/3 days/3 days super sets), hitting each muscle group from many angles ex: legsx6, chestx4, backx5-6, shouldersx4, bisx3/trisx3. 3-5 sets of W20, 15, 15, 12, 10 reps, 60-90 secs rest in between sets, two minutes in between exercises. It's very intense work like up to two hour sessions 6 days/week. The idea is to milk low weights high reps as much as possible. I really felt like a pro bodybuilder LOL But damn it works everything so well. The rep ranges and the pump is just perfect. Best three months of training I ever had but my schedule changed, so now I can only do every second day.
How do you know you're doing too much volume ?
I try and train around 60-80% without going to failure so I can do more volume on the next day.
The point is basically you do low reps with a good weight you can handle with good clean reps and squeeze at every rep (lot of people don't do that) and you can do one set of high reps preferably at the end of each set.
Ah-no mate you have this all wrong, it never was high volume training, it's high volume Syringes=switch up your tiny syringes for 100ml ones i guarantee you will go super size.
LOL true
If this was the case everyone would be huge and guess what they not 🤷🏿♂️
Very good video. Thanks for the information. Makes sense. Back in the 50's Arthur Jones noticed that when he reduced volume and frequency he progressed (His Nautilus bulletin's describe this). Question: Do different muscle groups require different volume protocols? On the one hand, for quadriceps hypertrophy, the gold standard was (since McCallum, Rader, et al.) 20 reps in the barbell squat. On the other hand, the upper body pushing structure seems to be adapted for explosive movements, so less volume (less reps) seems indicated.
The Nautilus bulletin no.1 remains one of the best work on building muscle. Bulletin 2, not so much. I think that there is a small difference on the type of loading a muscle can respond to. In part because the ratio of slow/fast twitch fiber is different from muscle to muscle. And the 20 reps breathing squat espoused by Strossen and McCallum (love the Keys to Progress) certainly works. But I find that out of all the body parts, legs are those that respond to the widest range of stimuli.
John Mountain dog Meadows has A video out saying that increasing frequency was the key for him overcoming a plateau.
What about the nervous system? Doesn't it need more time to recover if you train in a low rep range, allowing fewer training days? Would that affect hypertrophy?
Everyone thinks that, but it is the opposite. Training high reps and / or high volume will burn your CNS a lot faster, especially if you are often training to failure. Train with one or two hard sets per exercise, going to technical failure, meaning you could not do another rep with perfect form. Keep your sessions short and work hard AF. This is the path to success.
Coach I have a note . Although I agree with you in the general idea, you mention that cortisol will go high and activation of AMPK pathway with excercices using high glycogen stopping protein synthesis... SO WHAT? When we are training we are in a catabolic state anyway, and we want to create that catabolic environement destroying muscle fibers so that the body has a reason adapt and recover afterwards... so WHILE we are training we are not actually synthesising protein into muscle, so it is okay to do high volume in certain phases of training. Can you correct me? Thanks
Ez un maestro!!!!
New subscriber here great videos !
InspirationTransformation sxxxww
Damn this guy looks like Vin Diesel!!!
The (even more) jacked version
Vin Diesel wishes he could look as jacked as Christian Thibideaux!!
And sounds like Adam Sandler (his goofy singing voice is this guy's talking voice).
@@tbone764 Yeah agreed. Vin Diesel wishes he could look like this guy. This dude is crazy jacked.
Facts