Great video Matt, short and to the point! Since you raised this some time ago I've been using mostly a narrow grip for pull ups and push ups, and my joint pain has reduced.
Re Mentzer. Nautilus pull down machine, the cable one not the pull over one, allowed a neutral grip, narrow grip but not a wide one according to similar thinking by Arthur Jones. So they at least used to shun the long bar with bent down ends everyone else was using. Interesting...
@@Ontonaut He was an iconoclast and personification of "think different", an interesting man. I'm not sure I always agree with him or Ellington Darden but both are interesting men. I think any real world advantage in his cam was over stated and some research bears that out but it was mechanically a brilliant idea and an elegant solution to a theoretical problem of strength curves and changing levers and how to try to address that, accommodate that better than levers, barbells, body and pulleys could. In the real world In actual practice it's not clear to me that it needs to be addressed though. I admire him trying to optimally exploit things though. He was also a bit of a self promoter and salesman too and that figures into the Nautilus legacy too. They are well made machines that work well but they aren't magic or anything. It's hard to prove a measureable advantage in them over other machines or levers, barbell, body and pulleys. A fascinating man...
Good point. Like doing lots of ab work. it doesn't do anything for belly fat, but it is very satisfying to do it. Nothing wrong with that either. If that's what makes you feel good and put the work in, then embrace it.
Yeah hell yeah , and usually when you do that grip or shoulder width but not wider you automatecally go into a hollow position wich is good leverega to touch the bar lower thus increase range of motion
I do weighted pullups with a narrow grip now mainly becauseI feel like it's easier on the joints, also I feel like I can actually go heavier on it more comfortably than I would with regular or wide grip.
Yes...I see the advantage of variations more to avoid overuse injuries than the different effect some say they give. I just like to know why I'm doing them though, the premise. For variety I might rather alternate dips and difficult push ups rather than push up types...I accept the argument though to mix it up even if I don't do that as much as maybe I should.
As someone who does pull-ups, push-ups and squats daily, I try to include some variety with pull-up grip, but I do agree that narrow grip feels way better!
The lats perform mainly two actions: shoulder extension and arm adduction. With a narrow grip you are maximizing the shoulder extension action, with a wide grip there's more arm adduction. Both actions happen in any kind of pullup, it's a matter of wich one you want to emphazise more.
With a narrow grip, you use the lats to maintain adduction so the elbows don't wing out. The same is the case with the chest with narrow push-ups too. Ideally, width shouldn't matter all that much, but that takes a fair degree of tension control
@@RedDeltaProject yes, but there's a difference between an isometric and an isotonic contraction, at least from an hypertrophy perspective (isotonic contractions are usually better for hypertrophy). Anyway, I'm not contradicting you, I've said that both actions happen in both wide and narrow pullups.
In push ups the wider the grip the easier it is , the narrower the grip the harder it becomes. In pull ups it's the opposite the wider the grip the harder it is , the narrower the grip the easier it becomes.
@@michaelkulman7095 well I am seeing improvements on my pull ups although it's too quick to make an assumption I need more time to see the effects. Plus this comment is my personal opinion and I don't know how the experience is for other people.
@@SaifAlikhan-wy1zs Yes but grip width isn't usually suggested to do this, as a progression, although if it works maybe it should be! People will say build up to pull ups with negatives or horizontal pulls or partials and maybe use a reverse, supinated, grip at first as it's a little easier but I've never heard different grip widths suggested except here, you and Matt, so that could be a useful addition if it works. Progressions, negatives, partials I'm pretty familiar about progressing callisthenics but not with width. Having more steps for hard things like pull ups might be helpful to a lot of people especially if they don't want to buy bands. Hard is a relative term, push ups are hard for some, pull ups for others, hard for you and me anyway, the person progressing an exercise I mean so any extra steps you can put in can be helpful. I remember being told in gym class when I couldn't do a pull up to just hang there then...gee thanks coach! Thanks for the advice! (Sarcasm). So I know the importance of progressive steps in bodyweight strength training...just hanging there doesn't help much! Progressions help though! I found a book, "The Marine Corps 3X Fitness Manual" and it helped a lot! This was in the 1980's, the internet didn't exist and there wasn't a lot on bodyweight or callisthenics out there then! I was happy to find it! Actually Matt is one of the few I've found that talks about using width as a variable like in his periodic table thing...to make things harder or easier...thanks Matt!
Not really. going thumbs over allows me to have a touch of external rotation by a few degrees which probably just feels easier for my tight-as-hell shoulders.
I feel it much more in my arms when I go narrower than shoulder width, even in overhand grip. Am I doing something wrong or does it just take some time to get used to it?
Interesting! Your observation about wide grip and retracted scapular coming along with that by default and that being the advantage noticed traditionally, historically, but this not mattering if you just retract scapular yourself. Is that really all there ever was to it? That and a general feeling you should hit muscles anyway you can from every direction you can? Is one pull good enough? If you can make it challenging? With pull ups you are sort of saying one grip width is. How about different exercises though. If I do hard push ups do I need to do dips? If I do hard horizontal pulls or bent rows do I need to do pull ups, or the reverse of those questions? If I do all of them am I just accumulating volume or wasting my time or a little of both? My tendency is that doing both may have some advantage beyond accumulating volume. I do dips and hard push ups. I do pull ups with one grip width like you do and horizontal pulls with a suspension trainer. Is this worthwhile? If I equated the volume could I just do a more minimalists exercise selection with more volume? I think it's an important question on equipment grounds alone. I have gone to some trouble to set up for dips compared to push ups. I have had situations where it was easier to set up horizontal pulls or bent rows than to hang a pull up bar and actually the reverse of that other times.
@@youdontknowme.idontknowyou6904 I think it would be worthy of a video actually! It is a good idea for a video. I have done wide, shoulder width and narrow work for upper body (pull ups and push ups) and had my doubts about it's worth, I doubt I am alone in this.
For me a little bit wider than shoulder width feels alot more comfortable either way. When going more narrow it kind of feels like my arms are doing too much work too early and I don't feel the squeeze in my lats as much when in the top position.
I find that when I do pullups from a bar that is higher I get more muscle activation than when I do them from my door, and my shoulders feel much better as well. Even if I use a similar width. Why is that?
I'd say less spinal compression because you can get a better more evenly balanced weight distribution with legs straight, I bet that allows the posterior chain to elongate and align more natrually, and the more natural flexion freedom in shoulder girdle and rotators as your forearms aren't braces against the door..which causes more resistance but also locks you in a rigid motor and biomechanical disadvantage.
@@edgefinesse4700 I have the perfect pullup bar. But the bar is riveted inside the door frame. So I can't get a really wide grip. However, like I said, even while using a similar width at monkey bars, the monkey bars feel more natural. Thanks for the explanation
@@sergiopacheco2939 I can see that yea I thought you were doing door pullups...theres defiantly veracity in your statement..I guess ultimately it's pyschoschematic..and undeniable biofeedback..Id always go with what feels the best...I can def see having a way more free flowing uninhibited workout outside
It may have more to do with where your legs are. In a doorway you are probably placing your legs more in front or behind you which is changing your orientation to gravity a bit.
The wrists, elbows, and shoulder joints are typicly in more alignment. Anything these places the arms wider appart can place more stress on the joints. Not always but that can be the case
Wrong it works lats the same amount , just engages the biceps more as well. Other than that still works all the back muscles primarily. Get ur facts straight before talkin
Traditionally we had ideas about it being advantageous to use different width grips for pull ups, bench presses and push ups... Matt is basically questioning that. We also have been told we should work our chest, lower chest and upper chest and Matt questions that too. Traditionally, body building especially likes to break thinks up like we are Lego constructions and talk about upper, lower, inner and outer more than other disciplines, general health, srength trainers and athletes, do. Could you work your whole chest good enough with just dips even though they are said to be for the lower chest? I think so. Some study showed pretty good effect on upper region too. Have some questioned the need for narrow and wide bench presses and push ups? Yes. Have people like Matt, Mike Mentzer and Arthur Jones questioned if you need to do wide pull downs? Yes. We have two major schools of thought here. The mainstream idea is pretty dominant, you are a Lego construction! I tend to not think that way is necessary or right. Maybe in bodybuilding you need that to have everything " pop out" and show, to look like a skinless anatomy poster but I'm not sure you need it for function. For me form follows function. I'm not sure you will find a definitive answer. You will find philosophical answers... and opinions...
@@michaelkulman7095 for one who understands logically and rationally the truth of the matter becomes objective...to others looking in subjective...subjective ignorance IMHO...the fitness world has become overly complex and complicated..like muscle has never ever been built by any human ever...well I digress its all about money and platforms and ergonomics to keep people intrested
@@edgefinesse4700 There are various ways to the top of the mountain. More than one approach might work. Something that works even if not "optimal" can be of value. Looking at the statues of ancient Greece and Rome and if they are to be believed it's impressive what they accomplished without Nautilus
@@edgefinesse4700 People believe something is true, then given new information some find it false, some cling to it and the new truth, is found true by some and heresy to others.
@@michaelkulman7095 facts...I think when I made my rant I was thinking of the scammers and uninformed things and people that I have come across..I'm all for debunking myths and incorporating logical rational thinking and application..which I do as a prerequisite I question everything and ask why do I do what I do and is it necessary or effective etc...good point on separating wheat from the chaffe and finding the truisms in the physical fitness world
No...from a functional standpoint...the body works as a unit and can't be separated when it comes to optimum function..isolation makes no sense..functionally..the body is a whole of its mechanics and not a sum of its parts working independently...so to sum up you could do isolation like back work..but now you would have unporpotional strength ratio..to the smaller pulling muscles the biceps and forearm...you would in a sense have useless levels of back strength due to weaker links in the assisting muscles....but I think to train various angles can be beneficial depending on what you need your body to do..but I degrees...its a misnomer isolation anyway...even if you took a very wide grip the biceps and hosts of other muscles are contracting and firing anyway..just at a disadvantage of pull mechanics
@@edgefinesse4700 I think it depends on what your goal is. For me it’s not strength i seek, but aesthetics. So I don’t mind having an “unporpotional strength ratio”.
@@aboodf6268 yea aesthetics is a top motivation factor..defiantly no wrong way to exercises..I reckon if one is training for aesthetics..your gonna hit all the muscles anyway..so probably no imbalances..just longer more meticulous routines..no arguments here..I think fitness is about what your willing to put in and sustain
@@edgefinesse4700 yeah I do exercise my biceps in isolation. So both back and bicep get their share of intense training. Thank u for sharing ur thoughts Edge Finesse.
He is sort of saying that. He doesn't do push ups with his feet on a dresser or something like that to work his "upper chest" either. There are two schools of thought here. Traditionally you would use an incline bench or do push ups with your feet on a dresser or some thing for your upper chest, bench press or pushups for "chest" then dips or decline bench press for "lower chest" this was and still is dominant bodybuilding philosophy. Matt disagrees with it apparently. I do too but I am torn about it having been raised in a different "church", having learned a different doctrine. I tend to agree with Matt but we are both commiting heresy in the eyes of many and speaking for myself I fear Torquemada! Maybe for serious bodybuilders you have to break up the muscles by upper, lower, inner, outer like this but for general health and athleticism I don't think you do. Bodybuilding is different...perhaps?
@@michaelkulman7095 I agree if just overall strength physique and health is the goal..there's no need for a complicated geometry session...but I would say for a athlete or bodybuilder they have to absolutely train every angle and dimension possible..I do agree that for a person whose occupation is not Reliant on specificity of physical prowess and aesthetics...you would do fine on a simple full body compound movements of minimum angles and complexity
@@edgefinesse4700 Maybe, but different people at the top of that game have trained differently so it's hard to say definitively. I made some allowance for that school of thought and where it might apply.
I don't know about chest, but one thing I've noticed in myself since switching to calisthenics is that my front delts are starting to dominate too much. Maybe it's just an aesthetics issue but I wouldn't be super confident that having overly debeloped front delts isn't going to throw me out biomechanically in some way, especially because I kind of have naturally rounded shoulders in the first place. I'm going to get a couple of dbells as it's too hard to target the side delts with body weight exercises. Other than that I'm a calisthenics convert. Particularly with gymnastic rings.
Me too. Joint friendly, bigger range of motion, more reps, more gainz
Great video Matt, short and to the point! Since you raised this some time ago I've been using mostly a narrow grip for pull ups and push ups, and my joint pain has reduced.
I recall reading a similar explanation of the advantage of the narrow grip in a Mike Mentzer book in 1997. I've been a narrow gripper ever since
Re Mentzer. Nautilus pull down machine, the cable one not the pull over one, allowed a neutral grip, narrow grip but not a wide one according to similar thinking by Arthur Jones. So they at least used to shun the long bar with bent down ends everyone else was using.
Interesting...
@@michaelkulman7095 Arthur Jones was so brilliant
@@Ontonaut He was an iconoclast and personification of "think different", an interesting man.
I'm not sure I always agree with him or Ellington Darden but both are interesting men.
I think any real world advantage in his cam was over stated and some research bears that out but it was mechanically a brilliant idea and an elegant solution to a theoretical problem of strength curves and changing levers and how to try to address that, accommodate that better than levers, barbells, body and pulleys could.
In the real world In actual practice it's not clear to me that it needs to be addressed though.
I admire him trying to optimally exploit things though.
He was also a bit of a self promoter
and salesman too and that figures into the Nautilus legacy too.
They are well made machines that work well but they aren't magic or anything.
It's hard to prove a measureable advantage in them over other machines or levers, barbell, body and pulleys.
A fascinating man...
The saga continues
😂
We pull wide because we want to be wide. It doesn't work, but it satisfies psychological needs. :)
Good point. Like doing lots of ab work. it doesn't do anything for belly fat, but it is very satisfying to do it. Nothing wrong with that either. If that's what makes you feel good and put the work in, then embrace it.
@@RedDeltaProject😊
Yeah hell yeah , and usually when you do that grip or shoulder width but not wider you automatecally go into a hollow position wich is good leverega to touch the bar lower thus increase range of motion
I love that you are still grinding and putting such good information out there ..
Much thanks STR.
I'm just getting started ;)
I do weighted pullups with a narrow grip now mainly becauseI feel like it's easier on the joints, also I feel like I can actually go heavier on it more comfortably than I would with regular or wide grip.
I second that. it's a very direct way to hit the muscles
More glutes more dudes
@@samideriv8214if you're a girl it's ok but if.
@@justsomeguywithsomememes NO 💀
its still good to alternate variations to avoid overuse, so i'd still recomend you every once in a while do wide pullups
Yes...I see the advantage of variations more to avoid overuse injuries than the different effect some say they give.
I just like to know why I'm doing them though, the premise.
For variety I might rather alternate dips and difficult push ups rather than push up types...I accept the argument though to mix it up even if I don't do that as much as maybe I should.
Not for everyone though. Hurts my shoulders everytime
@@thestuff4321 Listen to your body more than other people.
As someone who does pull-ups, push-ups and squats daily, I try to include some variety with pull-up grip, but I do agree that narrow grip feels way better!
Thanks man
❤
No one talks about this. So true.
Excellent
The lats perform mainly two actions: shoulder extension and arm adduction. With a narrow grip you are maximizing the shoulder extension action, with a wide grip there's more arm adduction. Both actions happen in any kind of pullup, it's a matter of wich one you want to emphazise more.
With a narrow grip, you use the lats to maintain adduction so the elbows don't wing out. The same is the case with the chest with narrow push-ups too.
Ideally, width shouldn't matter all that much, but that takes a fair degree of tension control
@@RedDeltaProject yes, but there's a difference between an isometric and an isotonic contraction, at least from an hypertrophy perspective (isotonic contractions are usually better for hypertrophy). Anyway, I'm not contradicting you, I've said that both actions happen in both wide and narrow pullups.
From now and then I will always do narrow grip pull up.
You believe people easily
@@gamesmaster1060 I was wrong about my statement.
You can do both
@@ibrahimismail7881 I think you are right ✅️
pure gold! thx man
In push ups the wider the grip the easier it is , the narrower the grip the harder it becomes.
In pull ups it's the opposite the wider the grip the harder it is , the narrower the grip the easier it becomes.
I personally am not that good with pull ups so I'm focusing on narrow grip pull up
So are you saying that can be used to scale them? Progress them?
Are there any other advantages you see?
@@michaelkulman7095 well I am seeing improvements on my pull ups although it's too quick to make an assumption I need more time to see the effects.
Plus this comment is my personal opinion and I don't know how the experience is for other people.
@@michaelkulman7095 in weight lifting people increase weights to progress in Calisthenics you change your variation to progress
@@SaifAlikhan-wy1zs Yes but grip width isn't usually suggested to do this, as a progression, although if it works maybe it should be!
People will say build up to pull ups with negatives or horizontal pulls or partials and maybe use a reverse, supinated, grip at first as it's a little easier but I've never heard different grip widths suggested except here, you and Matt, so that could be a useful addition if it works.
Progressions, negatives, partials I'm pretty familiar about progressing callisthenics but not with width. Having more steps for hard things like pull ups might be helpful to a lot of people especially if they don't want to buy bands.
Hard is a relative term, push ups are hard for some, pull ups for others,
hard for you and me anyway, the person progressing an exercise I mean
so any extra steps you can put in can be helpful.
I remember being told in gym class when I couldn't do a pull up to just hang there then...gee thanks coach!
Thanks for the advice! (Sarcasm).
So I know the importance of progressive steps in bodyweight strength training...just hanging there doesn't help much!
Progressions help though!
I found a book, "The Marine Corps 3X Fitness Manual" and it helped a lot! This was in the 1980's, the internet didn't exist and there wasn't a lot on bodyweight or callisthenics out there then!
I was happy to find it!
Actually Matt is one of the few I've found that talks about using width as a variable like in his periodic table thing...to make things harder or easier...thanks Matt!
Is there a reason why you use the grip with thumbs on the bar? Is it also more jointfriendly than thumbs around the bar?
Not really. going thumbs over allows me to have a touch of external rotation by a few degrees which probably just feels easier for my tight-as-hell shoulders.
What about Lat Pulldowns? Narrow for that too?
I feel it much more in my arms when I go narrower than shoulder width, even in overhand grip.
Am I doing something wrong or does it just take some time to get used to it?
For muscle up better, narrow?
Interesting!
Your observation about wide grip and retracted scapular coming along with that by default and that being the advantage noticed traditionally, historically, but this not mattering if you just retract scapular yourself. Is that really all there ever was to it?
That and a general feeling you should hit muscles anyway you can from every direction you can?
Is one pull good enough?
If you can make it challenging?
With pull ups you are sort of saying one grip width is.
How about different exercises though.
If I do hard push ups do I need to do dips?
If I do hard horizontal pulls or bent rows do I need to do pull ups, or the reverse of those questions?
If I do all of them am I just accumulating volume or wasting my time or a little of both?
My tendency is that doing both may have some advantage beyond accumulating volume.
I do dips and hard push ups.
I do pull ups with one grip width like you do and horizontal pulls with a suspension trainer.
Is this worthwhile?
If I equated the volume could I just do a more minimalists exercise selection with more volume?
I think it's an important question on equipment grounds alone.
I have gone to some trouble to set up for dips compared to push ups.
I have had situations where it was easier to set up horizontal pulls or bent rows than to hang a pull up bar
and actually the reverse of that other times.
Yooooooo 😂😂
Matt could do a whole Q&A on your comment lol
@@youdontknowme.idontknowyou6904 I think it would be worthy of a video actually! It is a good idea for a video.
I have done wide, shoulder width and narrow work for upper body (pull ups and push ups) and had my doubts about it's worth, I doubt I am alone in this.
No wider grip allow your lats pull from better leverage
For me a little bit wider than shoulder width feels alot more comfortable either way. When going more narrow it kind of feels like my arms are doing too much work too early and I don't feel the squeeze in my lats as much when in the top position.
Try keeping the shoulders back, with full retraction. that's usually the more determining factor for how much your back is working vs your arms.
I find that when I do pullups from a bar that is higher I get more muscle activation than when I do them from my door, and my shoulders feel much better as well. Even if I use a similar width. Why is that?
Same. I'd also like to know why, though it might be a mental thing, I.e. I don't have to worry as much about just where my legs/knees are held.
I'd say less spinal compression because you can get a better more evenly balanced weight distribution with legs straight, I bet that allows the posterior chain to elongate and align more natrually, and the more natural flexion freedom in shoulder girdle and rotators as your forearms aren't braces against the door..which causes more resistance but also locks you in a rigid motor and biomechanical disadvantage.
@@edgefinesse4700 I have the perfect pullup bar. But the bar is riveted inside the door frame. So I can't get a really wide grip. However, like I said, even while using a similar width at monkey bars, the monkey bars feel more natural. Thanks for the explanation
@@sergiopacheco2939 I can see that yea I thought you were doing door pullups...theres defiantly veracity in your statement..I guess ultimately it's pyschoschematic..and undeniable biofeedback..Id always go with what feels the best...I can def see having a way more free flowing uninhibited workout outside
It may have more to do with where your legs are. In a doorway you are probably placing your legs more in front or behind you which is changing your orientation to gravity a bit.
why is it more joint friendly ?
The wrists, elbows, and shoulder joints are typicly in more alignment. Anything these places the arms wider appart can place more stress on the joints. Not always but that can be the case
I remember you also talking about the centerline theory in a video years ago as well. Does that still hold up as a truth now?
Yep, same thing really. Going narrow is the way to progressively make use of that principle.
Good memory!
@@RedDeltaProject Was/is that in your periodic table?
Interesting. I had never questioned this before
I use the normal grip
no, the narrow grip works the bicep more so wide grip pull-ups are still the lat-growth GOAT
yeya
Wrong it works lats the same amount , just engages the biceps more as well. Other than that still works all the back muscles primarily. Get ur facts straight before talkin
is there any truth in the adage that wide grip builds back width, and narrow grip builds thickness?
Traditionally we had ideas about it being advantageous to use different width grips for pull ups, bench presses and push ups...
Matt is basically questioning that.
We also have been told we should work our chest, lower chest and upper chest and Matt questions that too.
Traditionally, body building especially likes to break thinks up like we are Lego constructions and talk about upper, lower, inner and outer more than other disciplines, general health, srength trainers and athletes, do.
Could you work your whole chest good enough with just dips even though they are said to be for the lower chest?
I think so.
Some study showed pretty good effect on upper region too.
Have some questioned the need for narrow and wide bench presses and push ups?
Yes.
Have people like Matt, Mike Mentzer and Arthur Jones questioned if you need to do wide pull downs?
Yes.
We have two major schools of thought here.
The mainstream idea is pretty dominant, you are a Lego construction!
I tend to not think that way is necessary or right.
Maybe in bodybuilding you need that to have everything " pop out" and show, to look like a skinless anatomy poster but I'm not sure you need it for function.
For me form follows function.
I'm not sure you will find a definitive answer.
You will find philosophical answers...
and opinions...
@@michaelkulman7095 for one who understands logically and rationally the truth of the matter becomes objective...to others looking in subjective...subjective ignorance IMHO...the fitness world has become overly complex and complicated..like muscle has never ever been built by any human ever...well I digress its all about money and platforms and ergonomics to keep people intrested
@@edgefinesse4700 There are various ways to the top of the mountain.
More than one approach might work. Something that works even if not "optimal" can be of value.
Looking at the statues of ancient Greece and Rome and if they are to be believed it's impressive what they accomplished without Nautilus
@@edgefinesse4700 People believe something is true, then given new information some find it false, some cling to it and the new truth, is found true by some and heresy to others.
@@michaelkulman7095 facts...I think when I made my rant I was thinking of the scammers and uninformed things and people that I have come across..I'm all for debunking myths and incorporating logical rational thinking and application..which I do as a prerequisite I question everything and ask why do I do what I do and is it necessary or effective etc...good point on separating wheat from the chaffe and finding the truisms in the physical fitness world
When I use the V attached on seated cable rows, I get shoulder pinching, probably because of the internal rotation
Boos video again mate
Hey don't boo him.
@@folksurvival 😂😂👍
I think I'm getting some elbow pain from the narrower style grip, any thoughts on that?
Look to keep your shoulder blades pinched tighter. The more you engage your traps the more stable your shoulders and elbows will be.
@@RedDeltaProject Will do. Thanks
But a wide grip makes it easier to avoid engaging your biceps which is what u want from a back exercise, no?
No...from a functional standpoint...the body works as a unit and can't be separated when it comes to optimum function..isolation makes no sense..functionally..the body is a whole of its mechanics and not a sum of its parts working independently...so to sum up you could do isolation like back work..but now you would have unporpotional strength ratio..to the smaller pulling muscles the biceps and forearm...you would in a sense have useless levels of back strength due to weaker links in the assisting muscles....but I think to train various angles can be beneficial depending on what you need your body to do..but I degrees...its a misnomer isolation anyway...even if you took a very wide grip the biceps and hosts of other muscles are contracting and firing anyway..just at a disadvantage of pull mechanics
Stop thinking in isolation...think in movement patterns...unless your a bodybuilder..which is overboard vanity and complexity..
@@edgefinesse4700 I think it depends on what your goal is. For me it’s not strength i seek, but aesthetics. So I don’t mind having an “unporpotional strength ratio”.
@@aboodf6268 yea aesthetics is a top motivation factor..defiantly no wrong way to exercises..I reckon if one is training for aesthetics..your gonna hit all the muscles anyway..so probably no imbalances..just longer more meticulous routines..no arguments here..I think fitness is about what your willing to put in and sustain
@@edgefinesse4700 yeah I do exercise my biceps in isolation. So both back and bicep get their share of intense training. Thank u for sharing ur thoughts Edge Finesse.
So wide grips are useless overall..makes sense thinking from a biomechanical vantage..
He is sort of saying that.
He doesn't do push ups with his feet on a dresser or something like that to work his "upper chest" either.
There are two schools of thought here.
Traditionally you would use an incline bench or do push ups with your feet on a dresser or some thing for your upper chest, bench press or pushups for "chest" then dips or decline bench press for "lower chest" this was and still is dominant bodybuilding philosophy.
Matt disagrees with it apparently.
I do too but I am torn about it having been raised in a different "church",
having learned a different doctrine.
I tend to agree with Matt but we are both commiting heresy in the eyes of many and speaking for myself I fear Torquemada!
Maybe for serious bodybuilders you have to break up the muscles by upper, lower, inner, outer like this but for general health and athleticism I don't think you do.
Bodybuilding is different...perhaps?
@@michaelkulman7095 I agree if just overall strength physique and health is the goal..there's no need for a complicated geometry session...but I would say for a athlete or bodybuilder they have to absolutely train every angle and dimension possible..I do agree that for a person whose occupation is not Reliant on specificity of physical prowess and aesthetics...you would do fine on a simple full body compound movements of minimum angles and complexity
@@edgefinesse4700 Maybe, but different people at the top of that game have trained differently so it's hard to say definitively.
I made some allowance for that school of thought and where it might apply.
I don't know about chest, but one thing I've noticed in myself since switching to calisthenics is that my front delts are starting to dominate too much. Maybe it's just an aesthetics issue but I wouldn't be super confident that having overly debeloped front delts isn't going to throw me out biomechanically in some way, especially because I kind of have naturally rounded shoulders in the first place. I'm going to get a couple of dbells as it's too hard to target the side delts with body weight exercises. Other than that I'm a calisthenics convert. Particularly with gymnastic rings.
@@luker.6555 I would say at that point I do various angles to hit different shoulders heads more directly...maybe 1 more points for angle variation
Narrow for novice, neutral for intermediate, wide for expert, and super wide for anime.
Lets go Brandon and nuttin free for Brandon