Bottomless Portafilter For Espresso - What Does It Do?
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Bottomless portafilters are more than just a pretty visual. Used in many cafes or by at-home baristas, the bottomless portafilter can actually keep your espresso tasting clean and fresh. Find out how as I explore some of the differences it has with spouted portafilters, and what some of the pros and cons might be.
This is one of my favorite tools to have on the bar, and I think it tells you a lot about your espresso. Certainly, something to consider, whether you are making a latte, a cappuccino, or if you are an espresso purist.
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What do you think about bottomless portafilters?
Yes
As you said it's easy to wash, I started working two days ago and found it hard to match the grams I have to extract, my coffee is over exctracted so I applied less pressure when tamping but didn't see a big change, I don't know what is the problem :/
@@xafafx Hey there! Usually you dont want to adjust your tamp. That doesnt have too much effect. I would only adjust your grind and go more coarse. Make sure you are stopping at at least 1:2 ratio, but mostly focus on grind. Dont let the shot take over 30 seconds if you find it bitter
@@CoffeeTimeJR I usually adjust my grind qnd I want to, but I qm not allowed to do that in this café, I also use the tool be4. Maybe I should pay more attention to the coffee distribution, the owner said when I plugged the portafilter I pushed it too much, could that be a reason? Thank you for your answer! 🤎
Finally switched from a pressurised portafilter to a bottomless and there’s so much more depth of flavour. It’s a much more enjoyable process from start to finish.
The bottomless makes me want to paint a painting of it pouring out. It's so pretty.
It's very pretty! Almost enough reason just to have them haha
I was told that i cannot use ready grounded coffee for the bottomless and also need a sitter groomer otherwise i will damage my machine. Please advise 🙂
@@ghoneim Bottomless require a pretty specific grind size or else you run the risk of your shot pouring too fast. Idk what a sitter groomer is but you will need a higher quality grinder so that you can grind whole beans at the size your espresso machine with a bottomless portafilter wants to use.
I think you my have imbibed too many of your shots
Would you paint me bottomless
We just got a bottomless portafilter for our Elektra Microcasa A Leva and LOVE it. Not only is it cool to watch your shot extract, especially when it’s pulled well, it makes you even more in tuned with the whole coffee preparation process…which makes it taste better!
Used bottomless portafilter for the first time, Loved it.
great video! thanks for pointing out both the pros and the cons!
Very well explained. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed. Cheers!
Very good overall view-well done Thanks
Great vid. Clearly explained with all the extra info a new coffee enthusiast needs to go further down the rabbit hole! :)
Thank you for making this video, great content!
So glad you enjoyed!!
Great points! I’m thinking about getting a bottomless. I learnt a few things here. Thanks! 👍🏻
Thank you for the great video!
Thank you so much for this detailed review! I will definitely purchase one :)
Thanks for watching!
Clean makes for great consistency. The bottomless makes for great photography. Thanks for the video
Thanks for stopping by Don!
Bingo, Don. Glad somebody said it
This video was so helpful! Thanks for the info :)
Learned a new thing because of you, mr. handsome! Thanks~
Great info, thanks. I'm gonna get one for my 870 Breville.
Thank you for a great video. You said everything clearly and intelligibly, with nice examples. Just perfect. 😉 The bottomless portafilter is awesome. So easy to clean and so much joy to watch it. The only problem is there’s no one who would drink all those coffees prepared. 😁
I came here from searching YT for "Bottomless Portafilter". Thanks for your excellent information. Exactly what I needed to know. Now subscribed, looking forward to watching regularly, and now off to buy a bottomless PF!
This helped me justify my recent purchase “because it looks really nice”
Sold!
Glad to help ;) enjoy!!
Thank you, now I understand. I was thinking about the differences between the bottomless and the normal portafilter.
Great explanation. Thanks 👍
Thanks for watching!!
I've never used anything other than a bottomless portafilter.
Fast and easy to clean and it's nice to sometimes watch the extraction :)
Ive used others but will never go back, back, bottomless is the best!
Only sometimes?
Thank you for this great input.
Will consider this.💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Thanks for watching! Hope it all works out :)
Thank you! Great information! 🙂
So glad you enjoyed!
I was looking for a spouted portafilter but now i love the one i have 😍
Stick to what makes you happy! Glad you enjoy it :)
Thanks a lot for the video, its really helpful!!
Thanks for watching! Glad I could help :)
Very good info! The outside to inside thing was interesting, I've never heard that before. I've been using a bottomless portafilter for about three weeks and it's great, warts and all. I think it's made me a lot more consistent, and it also NEVER GETS OLD to watch the stream forming.
I'm going to think a bit harder about how I'm tamping and distributing and the outside-to-inside transitions. I intend on making a video about my espresso process fairly soon and I'll definitely mention your tip (and this video) in it! Thank you :)
Hey Riley! Thanks for watching! It's an interesting idea isn't it? But yea I love the bottomless. It's so fun to use and I also just enjoy the idea that it's going straight in to my cup without touching metal. It's not like I think the metal will do much... but maybe I'm just a little OCD haha
I just took a peek at your channel and i'm loving what you've got just from the titles!! I'll be sure to watch as you pass me ;) Cheers to good coffee!
@@CoffeeTimeJR pass you? You flatter me, there's absolutely no way!
I don't think it's overly OCD given how complex and crazy espresso is! Everything seems to matter, it's bonkers. I'm no scientist, but it makes sense bottomless would be a little less hassle for temperature stability - less metal touching espresso, means less heat loss on its way to your cup, I would think. Don't have to worry about pre-heating your portafilter if there's less metal to steal heat from the brew!
Also, it's just so damn cool! Haha.
Cheers to you too!
just ordered a bottomless portafilter for my job. pretty excited not gona lie.
Awesome video. Short, to the point, and with very good examples. You get a subscribe 👍
Exactly🎉
Good job. Clear concise and straight to the point. Bottomless PF is a must.
Thanks for watching! I appreciate the feedback :D
Thank you for your help. I been using the Breville Barista Express for about a year. Still learning everyday.
I've been using a bottomless about 5 months now.
Your explanation about this helped me more than anyone else on UA-cam.
So once again thank you very much. 💪💙☕
You have a huge point there. Regular filters use to get dirty if you don't clean it regularly and I think it's not a common practice, to clean it up, as should be
Absolutely! When I train baristas at our cafes, if they tell me the espresso isn't tasting good, the first thing I ask them is if they cleaned everything recently. If the basket is dirty, or if the grouphead is dirty, the shot will taste worse
hey thanks! Great explanation.
However, I think that achieve a hotter shot is another good reason
Thanks 😊
Thanks for watching!!
My man, how come you have very few followers? I just discovered your channel and it's very informative and well-explained. I love it :) Cheers from Bolivia :D
I appreciate such kind words!! Thank you!
Just subscribed!
Thanks (I will get one)
Great video! You convinced me to go bottomless! haha
Another bonus for home barista that can't invest in an E61 or similar heated group head, a bottomless portafilter is basically up to temperature if you pull a Blind shot through And wipe it dry before you grind and tamp! Investing in a Breville Bambino Plus shortly and doing all the research
nice
the shot pours beautifully like warm honey..
They look so good!
Great information video!!
First manual espresso machine for me ( Lelit Bianca paired with Mignon XL ) i use the bottomless portafilter with a VST 18g basket, if I change same basket to the spouted portafilter do i need to change the dose and grind size since the water travels more in the spout compared to the bottomless
So far never used the spout portafilter
New at this
Thanking you in advance
Good video! It would be great to see a comparison of the bottomless portafilter and the standard twin portafilter as viewed in a clear glass cup. Which has more crema, more body, etc. And the taste, which tastes better? Willing to bet the bottomless tastes better (richer, full body) vs the twin.
Amazing video, thank you. That being said, I get it, coffee brewing is a multivariate problem to get the best coffee.. but I feel like baristas gatekeep this area and they make stamping be such a hard problem. Honestly, everybody who just invests a bit of energy can do a good coffee if he knows the recipe.. so why are baristas and UA-camrs always talking so secretive about brewing coffee? I don't get it.
Great video & well explained. Would you know if there is a bottomless portafilter for a Delonghi ec885 machine? Cheers from Australia 👍
Hey glad you enjoyed the video! I'm not sure on the machine specs unfortunately.. but I'm sure if you took the regular portafilter to an equipment company over there they'd probably be able to help!
Is there any bottomless portafilter in particular that you advise for a Rocket Appartamento? Thank you very much
❤ can i use bottomless unpressurized portifilter with pre-ground beans from cafe? 😊
Which bottomless portafilter and screen would you suggest for a Breville Barista Express® Impress Espresso Machine?
It would seem that the taste is likely the same if the spout is cleaned properly. But I can see how the bottomless filter can help you refine your technique. But that's a second, third, or even fourth step in making good coffee products, in my personal opinion. There are lots more parameters to get dialed in, first. Like grind size, amount of coffee, water pressure, extraction time, viscosity of the extraction, amount of water, quality of the crema, .... I'd say THEN one might look at a bottomless filter as a (quite expensive) upgrade to a multi-year experience.
The same is true for frothing milk. There is so much to learn before upgrading anything on your setup.
Thanks. Excelent
Is it real to use bottomless basket for Delonghi ec685 and make some awesome Ristretto? (15-16g beans/ 15g of a coffee for 15 sec?) (and yes, i use upgraded Molito grinder to have a fine grinded beans). Now i can use my Delonghi with double-cup basket with false bottom but i dont like cremas, seems it has to be bigger ;)
9 times out of 10 times, bottomless tastes no different but they do look cool. They also make it an easier (cheaper) way to build a DIY tester to measure the pressure at the basket. Pop out the "normal" basket and replace it with a modded "pressure gauge" basket. Easy as falling off a log. But you do have to sacrifice a pressurized basket to build one.
Nice video , I’m somewhat new to espresso ☕️ at home and I got the breville barista express , any recommendation what’s the right bottomless portafilter I need to get mind me asking ?thanks
Hey! Thanks for watching. For bottomless baskets there are many brands, but the main thing you need to make sure is that you pick the right size. The barista express may be something like a 53 or 54mm? They might even sell one on their website. Be sure to check your documents for the sizing of your machine, then pretty much any brand can work if the size is correct.
Some people have also gotten more hands on in the past.... You can actually just cut off the spouts! But that's a bit more dangerous and you gotta know what you are doing lol
Hi! Thanks for the video. I bought a bottomless portafilter, and always use freshly ground coffee, but never get the streams to join nor create that beautiful crema you have.
Hey! Really try focusing on hour tamping and distribute the coffee evenly through the basket. Your roast is fresh? Dark roast? And how fast are your shots coming out? Are you getting enough pressure?
@@CoffeeTimeJR thanks for your help. Yes, my coffee is fresh, dark roast. Hand grinded before use. I use a coffee distributor/tamper.
I think my problem could be not enough pressure. I have a Delonghi Dedica. Maybe mine is defective.
@@VictorEnriqueEspinozaLanyi which hand grinder are you using? I'm wondering if it does get fine enough for espresso
@@CoffeeTimeJR I use the Harion skerton plus and yeah, it's really fine!
@@VictorEnriqueEspinozaLanyi have you solved the issue with the delonghi?
great video for the beginners like me😂....tq✌️✌️✌️#donesubscribe
Thanks so much for watching! Glad you enjoyed 😁
Is the spouted portafilter acting as a heatsink a potential issue at all? Or is it minimal given that the water wouldn't be in contact with the spout until after it's already gone through the puck? Probably less of an issue if you're in a cafe, but for an individual shot at home it would make a difference in having to pre-heat your spout (or of course, going bottomless).
Great thoughts and questions. Here's mine: as far as the spouts go, if we were only considering the idea that the metal pulls heat from the espresso then I'd say the effect is next to none (if anything it could be better because I find espresso to taste a bit better cooled down).
BUT I like what you brought up about the second aspect, that maybe the extra metal is distributing the heat further than it would have had to go with bottomless, maybe that causes the spouted portafilters to generally be slightly cooler, and that would cause them to take more heat from the water during extraction. Very interesting idea. I think its possible. Although I do think less so with expensive cafe equipment, as these tend to do a pretty good job at keeping things nice and toasty hot.
For the at home barista, to be safe either way, its probably a good idea to push a bunch of water through in the mornings anyway, just to prime the whole system and kind of wake it up, but mostly level out the heat a bit.
Tq so much. I want to ask, which coffee size is suitable for bottomless?
Hi! When you say coffee size, do you mean the ground coffee? You should be able to grind to a similar size as normal!
Yes less contact with the metal means less impartation of off flavours, coz certain parts of the portafilter are impossible to clean and has foul smelling deposits
Not necessarily though.. most cafes have a routine of soaking the portafilter in hot water and espresso cleaning powder. This is very effective at getting everything off. So when it comes to just plain steel, I'm really not sure its effecting the taste too much
Hi. Where is the best place to buy and what’s the best bottomless porta filter and basket?
Hey there! As far as the "best" goes there isnt really one company that does it better, you just need to make sure it fits in your machine. Search online and make sure you know your machines basket size. Find the right portafilter to fit that, but it wont matter what company. The basket itself though does have superior companies like VST baskets and other "competition" brands. But la marzocco also makes similar quality if I'm not mistaken
But is there a taste difference?? I think you can distribute, tamp as well as you can but if your coffee is older (not even old) you'll get squirts and unwanted mess. It's a bit frustrating to clean up so I'm just curious if there's that much of a taste difference between the two but i guess that's a difficult question to answer. We just know if you see a proper extraction via the bottomless, the shot should be tasting as good as it can be, while a spouted you can't really tell if you're getting the best shot the coffee can provide. Even that though I'd argue because I can tell when something's up with it - not as much crema, the shot is a little more watery etc.
another aspect - you can use any compatible basket with a bottomless portafilter.
I bought a coffee machine of 58 mm. And I got a bottomless portafilter; but I'm not getting good coffees. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. do I have to fill the whole basket with coffee? Or is it the thickness of the grind?
Hey there! Is the coffee coming out very fast? You want to make sure the grind is fine enough, kind of powdery texture, and probably 18g-19g for your basket
HI! Thanks it was really helpful!
But i don't really understand still ...
With Bottomless portafilter you are using 18-19g (double dose). So with Bottomless Portafilter you can make only double shots ? i don't get it :D
Hi! The main thing is that the bottom spouts are cut off. The basket size can be changed out if you want to a single dose instead. It would work in the same way! But the basket decides how much coffee we put in
I'm not sure shot times would be any different to be honest as you' only need the pressure really, to get the water through the coffee and basket also, the bottomless system means there's a lack of contact with metal spouts which can draw heat from the coffee.. I've been bottomless for a while (if you pardon the pun) and I'm more than happy with the results.
Oh I can maybe clarify what I mean: the shot time changes IF you are using a weight based system to end your shots. If you are weighing out to 38g for instance, the shot just takes longer for all of that liquid to come out because it travels a longer distance down the spouts vs. A single stream on the bottomless.
That's also true about the heat! Glad you've enjoyed your results. Nothing better than a cup of coffee you made and truly enjoy
It is shorter as it doesn't need to wait to finish funneling through the channels and inside. Maybe a couple seconds difference only though.
hi, do you think channeling can occur because of a not so great grinder, or it is purely a function of distribution and tamping?
This is a great question... My instinct is to say that the grinder quality won't matter as much. Still the most important think is distribution and tamping. Also have the correct sized tamper; too small and some areas may be left less compact, too large and you may cause suction when pulling it back out which can crack the puck.
After considering all of those things first, it's still possible that a grinder that creates inconsistent particle sizes could cause some issues... Maybe if there are too many fines, then it can choke up the puck and the water decides to burrow a hole instead. I could see that happening.
@@CoffeeTimeJR Got it, thanks. My distribution and tamping feel consistent, but I still get channeling sometimes. I guess the next thing would be to buy a distributor to see if there will be any improvements
If you use a regular blender vs coffee bean grinder, you will notice a difference. Blender is a toss in the air and grinder is consistent with dial settings…
Of course the grinder must be some sort of conical burr grinder with a pretty decent fineness setting. I know I'm stating the obvious for most viewers but just wanted to add it here for newbie amateur baristas. When I finally upgraded from my manual grinder (what a chore!), I frugally chose a Baratza Encore despite many saying that it's not good enough for making espresso with the bottomless portafilter. I'm perfectly happy with the choice. Leaving the grinder on setting 3, I'm able to "dial in" my shot by tweaking the amount of coffee, typically within a total range of 0.4 grams, i.e. getting good results between 11.8 - 12.0 grams for my shot. I have a Capresso EC Pro. I never get channeling. If I'm not dialed in, the extraction time is just too short or too long, but still with a good stream, unless I bog it down. My golden shot is 30 grams in 30 seconds. The portafilter on the Capresso flows another 3 grams after closing the valve at 30 grams.
Could you please tell me what I did wrongly the coffee did not come out like oily but watery? Was my coffee not fine enough or I did not tamp correctly? I am a newbie…million thanks
Hi there! It could be a variety of things.. but perhaps you could tell me more about your situation? How much coffee do you use and do you weigh out your espresso liquid? How long does the shot take to come out and finish?
@@CoffeeTimeJR Thank you for your kind response. No I did not weight the coffee. I pressed for 2 shots from the grinder. It does not really take long, but sorry I also did not set the timer. It just comes out like water very light taste compared to the the pressurized. I use DeLonghi grinder adjusted to the finest that is level 1. It does not seem fine enough from my naked eyes. Does the coffee need to be very fine when using bottomless?
@@AAcd165 I see! If possible, you should try grabbing a scale for yourself. Any kitchen scale. You want to think about your espresso as a ratio (coffee to water), and try for 1:2. So for every gram of coffee you grind in the basket, you want to push through 2 grams of water.
Typically you see 18g coffee and 36g total beverage weight in cafe settings. If your machine is smaller, you can use less coffee, but scale back the liquid as well! So if you use 7g coffee, stop the shot at 14g liquid, as an example.
If you are usually using pressurized baskets, switching to non pressurized will be a big change for you. You need to grind much finer, and make sure you use enough coffee. Try getting your coffee to come out slow at first, should be nice and dark, then it can speed up a bit and turn lighter shades of brown. If it shoots out quickly at the beginning and doesnt appear dark brown, you need to go finer...
If you cant possibly go finer, try adding more coffee to slow it down. Otherwise, the only thing left to try is pull a longer shot. If it comes out very fast you can change the ratio to 1:4. That will increase extraction and make a more balanced shot, but you lose texture.
You can explain things very well!
Your videos would be even more engaging,if you stand up and show ypur gestures down to the belt line. That would make it more natural to follow.
Yeah, never going back. So much easier to clean and see what's going on. Plus, there is limited room on my machine underneath, if using a scale, even with a bottomless. So overall, it's a win. The only downside, no split shots. Bottomless should be the standard otherwise.
It doesn't work for me, the coffee is too liquid.
I'am using a dedica985 and the normal portafilter works better for me.
Any idea ?
Does it all come gushing out quickly? How much espresso comes out in how many seconds? You can eyeball it with volume if you can
Did you taste those shots?
It would have been useful to understand the result.
Many the espresso enthusiasts forget that the most important thing is... The espresso taste itself. Otherwise why should I care about under/over extraction, channeling if I cannot relate them to the taste?
Totally agree with you that taste is the most important! But I think my purpose was to discuss extraction principles, assuming people already know what will happen to a shot that taste over/under extracted.
But I do have it on my list to go into more detail about the dial-in process, which i will certainly use as an opportunity to taste a lot of espresso and explain why I might change things one way or another
Why am I not getting a creme when using a bottomless on my ec685??
Common causes for lack of crema can include old and stale coffee (especially dark roasts and decaf), and espresso machines that dont create enough pressure inside.
@@CoffeeTimeJR I don't understand its new coffee, it's a dedica ec685 so other people use bottomless portafilter on that machine and have lovely looking creme. Do I need to grind coffee beans very fine??
You talk about channelling… this is my eternal problem… I wish you would describe how ro prevent this. Cause I just upgraded my grinder thinking this would be solved, but no. What can I do to solve this? It happens about one time out of three. Much better than before but still….
There are a couple steps you can take to reduce channeling: 1) adopt some type of distribution technique that evenly spreads the coffee across the basket. This might be using a tool (even a toothpick works), or tapping the sides with your hand 2) tamp the coffee perfectly level, not to one side or another. 2) once it's tamped, be very careful with it. Knocking it against anything (even lightly bumping it while locking it in the grouphead) can cause cracks to form I.e. channels.
Also, depending on your espresso machine, you may have access to pre-infusion settings. I have found mixed results using this. Some say that by wetting the puck before engaging with full pressure, it allows the coffee grounds to expand slightly and sort of lock into place. This could reduce channeling as well.
@@CoffeeTimeJR ha thank you. Ok I’ll be more attentive to every move. Since My pre-infusion was on, I might try to turn it off to see if it make any change. But the only things I wasn’t doing is the distribution technique using toothpick or some sort of tool. Thanks again!
@guytas great! Let me know how it goes :) my experience with pre-infusion is basically 50/50. Most machines I worked on I didn't use it. In the 2 cases I did use it, it worked fine at one place but at the other place always channeled and made the shot look so watery and gross
@@CoffeeTimeJR ok, after trying it, it made no difference with or without pre-infusion. But I ordered a WDT (I think this is how it’s called) tool to act like 10 toothpics and this seems to be doing the trick. The coffee taste really really great (mainly since a changed the grinder) and I so happy about that. I was trying to get away from using wdt like the pros in Italy. Everywhere you go in Italy, the coffee is always great and I didn’t see if they use a wdt or not. Anyhow, if I have to use it, I’ll use it 😏
I got creama with my espresso using Delonghi Dedica finally
Congrats! Espresso is such a joy :D
I confirm,Especially with a cheap machine 🤩
Hi! Basically bottomless is unpressurized?
Pressurized baskets are a totally different thing. Having spouts doesn't necessarily mean it's pressurized either. Most cafes and home baristas with decent equipment are opting for non pressurized baskets. Whether that's bottomless or spouted is up to their preference
Thanx! @@CoffeeTimeJR
✨️✨️👍👍👍
bottomless retains more heat, given the cup is heated in the same way before.
just a little bit, but still a small pro
Halo mister salken
Bottomless portafilter is the best tool to improve your espresso brewing skills
Can’t. Stop. Spraying.
It took a lot of practice to do this..
Getting the proper techniques takes time, but it's fun! And worth it!
The one that came with my machine was plastic at the bottom…I didn’t like that idea
Does a bottomless portafilter work on any espresso machine?
Yes it should be able to. The concept is not limited by any machine requirements.. just gotta make sure you have the right sizs basket for your machine !
Somewhere down the line we forgot that it's all about the quality of the coffee and became too obsessed to the flippin making of it.
Really expository
Coffee tastes the same, no matter if bottomless or not
Did you even watch the video? Bit of a strange comment
Less contact with metal... yeah OK. Isn't basket made of metal tho? 💀
You just answered yourself - LESS contact with metal. I didn't say "no" contact. Basket + spouts vs. Basket only = less metal. In any case I also state in the video that I don't 100% buy this argument. It's more likely to effect flavor in the fact that those spouts get pretty dirty over the day
@@CoffeeTimeJR I'm not laughing at you... I'm laughing at those who claim it has any effect
اسيادها 😂👌🐀
If you get it wrong, it’s like diarrhea
What degenerates aren’t cleaning between shots?
this is why most mediocre hipster baristas don't use bottomless portafilter 🤣 . they literally do not have the skills and disciplines to perform this.
What does it mean when the coffee just drips like heavy globs of rain, but never converges into a stream?
What kind of roast are you using? And what's your recipe? Would you say you're pretty consistent at tamping evenly and flat ?