Nice video. I left powered tool woodworking a few years ago when I saw introduced to hand tools. Believe it or not, I'd never seen a hand plane (or at least recognized one) until about 5 years ago. But I feel in love with the idea. I now have my own big set of hands tools. It takes me months to complete big projects like dressers, but I enjoy it so much more than I ever did using powered tools. Just turn on the radio and let the world drift away.
I too love to cut small amount of dovetails by hand and find it rewarding and relaxing. I love my D4R Pro for large production work. One suggestion if I may, the piece of wood that you clamped on top has a support and sacricial purpose . You’re suposed to bring it to the front touching the back of your board once set to final position to prevent tearout.
Josh, I give you a thumbs double up on both you presentation and content. Wood working was not my trade though having son a cabinet maker / custom wood worker I enjoyed it on the side for years. I was a purest at heart and would tease anyone who differed. Monday I experienced what you did in this video, I opened the box of my new Leigh dovetail jig. My heart is still a purest but my 82 year old body isn’t. I don’t have time to explain all that goes with that. It seems that the years don’t effect my Jig as much as the do my saw ! Mike
The hand tool method is my preferred method as all the tools can be used in other tasks, and those jigs confuse me. Keep up the craft, you are an artist.
If you are a small workshop then the best option is hand cut joints. If you are operating a higher output then you probably need to be using a jig but in doing that you need to have a method and system fully worked out to maximize output.
I really enjoyed your video and commentary. I’m a primary power tool user in my home 3 car garage that I share with two vehicles at night. All my power tools lumber, hand tools and machines are stored in one bay of the garage and on wheels. I have no hand tool joiners workbench and rely on my Festool MFT/3 as my only work surface. I have dreams of making a workbench such as yours but unfortunately I have no room. I do own the Leigh DR4 Pro with the accessory kit. I find it easy to setup and get to work with very accurate joints in variable spacing which helps create my custom look. Sometimes as a woodworker I find myself overly concerned and stressed about making something that will be indistinguishable from the best when nobody in my circle of family and friends would ever appreciate. This Leigh jig and any of their other ones are all fantastic for the hobbyist woodworker. I wish I had the skills for hand cutting and the tools required but that would be a gift to myself I can’t afford. I sure like to see the handwork of others who are under different circumstances and their artistic ability.
You could build a bench that takes up the same foot print as your MFT if you so desire. If you wanted to you could innovate and build a bench that can be stored away. You could double a bench as a cabinet system as well to store your stuff into. The sky is the limits of your imagination.
Just bought the Leigh d4r pro as well. I'd never cut a dovetail without hand tools. Initial setup took me some time, but with the Bosch router and the d4r it makes quick beautiful tails. Hand tools are fun and quiet, but sometimes my time wins that battle.
If you’re retired or woodwork for relaxation then hand cut is the way. If you’re selling your work and competing against ikea then efficiency and machines are how you make more than $1/hr. I’m sure there are people out there willing to pay thousands for a hand made bed side table but the market is so small you could never make a living unless you’re already famous.
@Mark McMinn If you are aiming to be at the high end you really need to be producing the best designs and quality and not just relying on people liking the idea of hand made. Most people cannot tell the difference.
En español: Completamente de acuerdo. En mi caso, trabajo la madera sólo por relajación, para contrarrestar el estrés causado por el trabajo y para ocuparme algunas noches (y no sentarme a ver TV o el móvil), por lo que uso sólo herramientas manuales. Pero si se tratara de un oficio, creo que las herramientas eléctricas serían de gran ayuda, ya que ningún cliente te esperaría 3 o 4 meses para que le hagas un mueble.
Thanks for the video. I plan on buying the Leigh D4R jig for bigger projects and using my hand tools for small ones. Don’t forget the cost of the sharpening equipment and learning curve to get a sharp chisel.
Nice comparison. One point about cost - like the router itself, most of us probably own most of the hand tools already, and use them for other tasks. So cost is usually the jig vs just a few specialist hand tools - dovetail saw, corner chisel and maybe dividers or a single bevel knife.
Friend, thanks for the detailed comparative review of the tool. I also have a Leigh D4R Pro 24 ", but it has been gathering dust on the shelf for a couple of years now. After your video, I think it's time to blow off the dust.
I truly admire those who can hand cut beautiful dovetails. I have tried very hard to obtain decent results with hand cutting and must confess I have never been satisfied with the outcome and I totally understand this is all on me. I think I have messed up enough very nice wood that I need to try a new approach. Really appreciate this unbiased review and love the "French poetry" analogy :).
Thank you for another great video about woodworking. I agree with you all the way. When doing lots of dovetails the jig will prove its value for the majority of us. Unless you are mastering the speed and method of masters like Frank Klausz that is.. 😜
Great video - but when handcut, dovetails can be done in any way imaginable, and as you did point out, you can cut tiny pins by hand if you so wish. Appearance goes to handcut, for sure.
Considering the jig he was using you may not be able to get quite as small of pin set but you can pretty much create any spacing between the pins and the tails that you want. Many of dovetail jig requires you to Cut your pins and tails at a certain distance apart with no option but that jig which is kind of pricey you can pretty much space them out the same way you might want to by hand.
One comment I would make is hand tools offer a lot of bang for the buck. To my mind, the nice assortment of tools used for hand cutting dovetails beats spending the money for a single purpose tool. The jig (admittedly a timesaver) is going to be on the shelf a lot when compared to the chisels, saws, etc. Not that I have ever used the jig, I still have a lot of improvement to go on my dovetail skills. Enjoyed the video.
Frank Klauz has a fun little video of how dovetails were done before power tools were a thing. There was no time to mess around with squares, guages and dividers. It was all done by eye with the joint straight off the saw. If you look at antique furniture you will see the spacing is not absolutely perfect and the saw cuts often go a little past the line especially in utillity furniture or where the joint is out of view. People imagine all woodworking should be perfect like Chipendale but that was only for those who could pay for perfection.
I just bought the incra LS for my shop made router cabinet. The LS doesn’t use a jig but it’s just as expensive. I haven’t cut dovetails yet but the setup seems to be much easier than the jig you used. I wonder how that would compare. I love the idea of hand tool usage, but the time seems to be a big advantage for machine cut joinery. Appreciate your honesty about the hand tool snobs. I like your balanced approach. You’re an inspiration to many of us. God bless.
Once you build up the skills and speed at doing hand cut dovetails you would find it a chore to actually go to the bother of setting up a jig. I can cut a set of dovetails in several minutes by the time I would even have the jig set up. And then there is the fact I can do the dovetails in any dimensions and style that I want. I can make them even, uneven or play design looks on them. I can also mix joints including dovetails and finger joints if I so desire.
Have been learning to hand cut and my second ones weren't too bad.I have an old JessEm Rout-R-Slide router table that can be set up to cut dovetails. I thought it was complicated, but probably less so than the Leigh. However, it is no longer in production. I seldom have any scrap the same width and thickness of my project to use for a test, so that is another factor in favor of hand cutting.
My shop was originally an all power tool shop...yes I have a dovetail jig for my router. However, as I got older and my asthma go worse, I transitioned to hand tools. In some cases, I can have a joint cut before I can get a power tool set up. I don't do production woodworking, so there is no need for me to set up power tools for batch production.
I have a Leigh D4R jig that I haven't used in over 3 years. Like you suggest in your summary, I only use the Leigh jig when doing large projects such as a chest of drawers. Otherwise, I do it by hand, though I think the Leigh dovetails probably look better as I'm not very good at hand cut dovetails (yet).
If you are working on a larger project you can still do it all by hand and do not need a jig but if you are outputting several larger projects a week then you probably will need to be using a jig and looking at efficiency in the overall output.
Thank you for posting this. I have always cut my dovetails by hand because I've never owned a jig. When I first saw the Leigh jig on The New Yankee Workshop I wondered which arm I would have to sell to buy it. I see that hasn't changed. I don't do enough dovetail work to justify the cost at this point. I would like to get to that point though. Take care.
Buy a used one. You can pick up a good Leigh jig (D4) for under $200. I have purchased D4's for as little as $75. with the vacuum attachment and a set of 8 Leigh bits. Shop around.
Great overview, if you have chosen Rob's saw's then you would know of his joint layout process nice and accurate straight from the saw. still not as quick as a set up machine jig as explained but a lot less hassle-free around the pin cleanup/precession... enjoyed the content. great channel
Great comparison of the two methods Joshua, much appreciated. And I have to say the “cutting dovetails by candlelight while reading French poetry” had me laughing pretty hard. And the kids looked very excited for their chests! Always fun to see. Did I notice a Rob Cosman saw? I know you did a review of Florip so what are your thoughts of the Cosman saw? I’ve always been curious about them but they are a bit in the spendy side. Thanks again Joshua.
Im perplexed that you only gave a slight edge to the cost of hand tools. IMO they are clearly the more cost effective option. All of the hand tools are multi purpose while the jig serves one purpose only: cutting dovetails (with the exception of the router).
I thought the same thing, came straight to the comment section to mention. I have no tools that I use only for dovetailing, other than a template (which I made, so $0)
Fantastic video, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃 Well, I'm starting woodworking for hobby, so hand cut for me. At least for now! In the future, however... Who knows. 😊 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
For a novice who doesn’t know how to or have experience with cutting dovetails by the time they practice enough that they feel they can start working on the expensive wood for their project they could’ve figured out how to set up the jig and probably end up with much better dovetails. For the experience woodworker who knows how to cut dovetails by hand the decision becomes more based on the quantity of dovetails to be cut. If you’re making one box or chest you may prefer to just simply use the hand tools and sit back and relax in your shop cutting out all the details. If you’re going to be producing a lot of boxes or drawers with dovetails for example a chest of drawers with dovetail connections in the drawers and on the chest then you probably want to break out your jig especially for the drawers. The outer carcass of your chest of drawers may actually be too big for a standardized jig and would require specially jig which may make it where you would not want to use the jig method and instead go to the hand cut. It really just comes down to use the right tool for the job, if you had to add six small numbers would you really go looking for a calculator or grab your laptop or would you just grab a pencil and paper or as so many of us do in the wood shop, A pencil and piece of scrap board.
The problem with the jig is you can really only cut a dovetail that is sized for the jig. With dovetail cutting skills you can make them as large or small as you like, as spaced as you like or in any style that you desire. Jigs are great when you want high out put and have a production system set up for your self for higher output. If you are a hobbyist learn to cut them by hand and it will be far more rewarding and also build your skills. By your tenth dovetail you will start to build confidence and by your one thousands you will feel like a master.
@@bighands69 As a hobbyist I have a jig that I use mostly for the drawers or making furniture with drawers it just increases the speed I sort of said that in a roundabout way up above. The carcass could be way too big for my jig but I generally don’t make drawers more than 12 inches deep
No dimestore tools in your kit. It's refreshing to see the focus of a video be the expeditious production of high quality, fine-looking multiples. You put out first rate videos and don't stack the deck in your assessments. Thank you.
I think the jig is probably going to guarantee consistently clean, tight joints faster than working with hand tools. But unless you have a lot of dovetails to cut I don't see that it is worth the time to set up the jig and pull out the router. There is another issue that power tools create which some may care about and others not. Loss of the skill is an issue created by power tools and jigs.
I can cut a dovetail to perfection by the time I have the jig out and set up. The skills you obtain by learning to cut them by hand is far more important. Also I can work in a complete power cut which is not the case for machine dovetails. Hand cut jigs are no easier to use than hand cut dovetails.
@@bighands69 How long did it take you to become this accurate? I used to be able to cut a straight line with a handsaw across a wide board when I was young. Then came years of power tool use. Now, much older. ok just plain old and getting back to hand tools, I need a lot of practice. At first I thought it was the fault of my Japanese pull saw. Rob Cosman said because the blades are so thin they tend to go off course. So, I got a Veritas dovetail saw. It's ok but I have a problem with it, besides not doing any better of a job with it. I find it far too light weight. Now with the wind knocked out of my sails, I thought perhaps I should concentrate on mortise and tenon joints. I've never cut one. I got a new saw but this time went for the PAX tenon saw. I tried one cut just for fun yesterday on the end of a small scrap piece of pine. Besides making my first cut on the wrong side of the one line which meant moving my second cut over also to keep the gap at 1/4", the cuts themselves worked pretty well for a first try. So, I need serious practice, but it also helps to have decent tools.
@@craigmouldey2339 I would suggest the best course of action is just to get scrap wood or cheap wood and attempt to cut as many dovetails as you can. The first several will not be good but you will start to notice where you can improve. I would suggest with cutting is saw near to the line but not on it and then pair back with a chisel. Now with a dovetail you can cut the pins right on the line if you desire and then when you have the waste cut out transfer it to the slot by using a pencil. When you do about 10 of them you will start to gain a little bit of confidence and 100 you will feel proficient and by 1000 you will be an expert. Get as many scrap bits of wood as you can and just start experimenting and trying to improve. Trust me if it was really easy everybody would be doing it and charging money but since it is not you have to build up a little bit of skill. While it is a challenge it can be achieved by everybody. Also if you want to practice cutting straight lines do it on really shallow cuts many times get your brain adjusted to the concept and it will build your confidence.
@@bighands69 Thanks for the boost. I will give an example to show I need practice. I tried dovetails a few days ago using two small scraps of pine. Starting my cut next to the pencil line on the end of the board, I'm trying to cut straight. But this has to be quickly changed to an angle to match the dovetail angle as the cut proceeds. I actually caught myself, when I started to change the angle of the saw to match the dovetail, but still cutting in a straight line, my hand turned to the left slightly. So, I was basically making two angles, if you know what I mean. Practice, practice.
@@craigmouldey2339 You will make mistakes at first and they will not look nice and maybe not be that tight. So if you do a joint that is not tight and is loose try and do the next one that is tighter. So cut it off the line and then pair it back with a good sharp chisel. Have a look at what Peter Sellers does on his channels as they are a good starting point for learning the tools and how to cut the joints.
Yes, you are correct. That's what I'm mentioning in my next video. But when laying out a bunch of dovetails, it can speed things up and make them look more uniform.
@@WoodAndShop Thanks for the reply. Isn't not spend time marking save more time? I'm also considering if marking gauge is needed, so save more time not true the end square in the beginning.
Lets see, "I sometimes cut myself using hand tools, but I never get cut using the router"... That's a tie?? LOL LOL I have the Leigh 24" jig, I haven't used it in many years... Why you may ask? Because I find it complicated and not fun at all for me to use! It DOES turn out nice dovetails, but it's just too much work for me! I can live with half blind dovetails... I also have the Porter Cable dovetail jig for half blind dovetails, I love that jig and leave a router set up for it all the time! Using it is fast and it turns out quality dovetails. SR
Hybrid (hand tool and power) woodworking is a sign of higher IQ Which even The Shakers knew! Heck…. it was a Shaker LADY (Sarah Tabitha Babbitt) who invented the power circular saw! Glory to God!!! 😮😊😂
I think the appeal of your channel is really all the hand craftiness and the lovely looking workshop, these georgeous workbenches.... definitely not this boring power tool wannabe woodworking that you see on many channels were people declare themselves woodworkers by spending thousands of dollars on some fancy domino joiner that does all the work for them. I use a router at times but its just such a messy and in my opinion extremely dangerous tool..... There's just no soul to it..... All this furniture that's built with toxic glues, ugly biscuits and dominos....nono, just not right! Same with these annoying orbital sanders, just messing up any squareness and being messy and loud. For me woodworking is using chisels, squares, saws...all that awesome stuff, thinking about clever joinery and not just cheating it together with some domino....
Domino's and Biscuit joints are fantastic for production outputs that allow people to earn a living. I would not be so quick to dispel them or be critical. People that use them are still craftsmen.
@@bighands69 Well yes, you can make better money with it, but that whole thinking makes people use mountains of basically petroleum based plywood and mdf, using finishes that are highly toxic too. Its all about making fast money but forgetting how destructive that attitude is to the environment.
What about the fact that when you rely on a machine you're not developing the skills that help you in every other area of woodworking? Those skills are where the real value lies. The only skills you get from the power tools are in setting up jigs and learning how to use that specific tool.
Can we say that pros cannot reasonably avoid a dovetail jig while amateurs can freely choose ? Another comment: whoever you are, you'll need a set of handtools for just general fine joinery. A dovetail jig is always going to be an addition to your handtools.
It depends on what you are doing as a pro. If you are only doing dovetails every now and then cutting them by hand is far easier than using a jig. If you are doing thousands of them and have a high output then cutting them with a jig as part of a system is more efficient. I can have a dovetails cut by hand by the time I get out a jig and get it set up.
I'm sure that more than 90% of dovetails are on drawers and rarely, if ever seen. So, use a jig. The only way to get adept at really fine dovetail work is through countless hours of practice. You can have perfect dovetails the first, and every, time with a jig. Save the hand cutting for someone who wants to do it for fun. If you showed a jig and router to a craftsman 200 years ago (assuming you could solve the electricity thing), he/she would have used it immediately. I'm not sure when wood working became the last bastion of the mentality of "advance with technology this far, and no further." Makes no sense. If it's for fun, do whatever you want. If it's for your livelihood, do whatever gets you beautiful, near-perfect, easily-repeatable results so you can provide the best product at the least cost/labour. I mean, do we expect everyone to harvest the tree with an axe, hew it, split it, mill it, flatten and square it, then cut dovetails all with no power?! Ridiculous, if you're trying to earn a living. However, I love felling my own trees on my property (using a chainsaw) then paying someone to come with their mill and mill it. Then I take it into the shop, hit it with a bunch of machines, and presto-chango, beautiful furniture! Find whatever balance you like and do it. Who cares what anyone else thinks? Unless you're trying to make a living. Then...use your head and get the jig!
@@WoodAndShop I am a retired physician. I've taken at least 4 in person hand cut dovetail classes, including one that was a biweekly 14 week community college "hand tool joinery" class in which I never progressed past (or accomplished a single acceptable, to me) dovetail. Surgery is easier! I've managed to cut acceptable machine dovetails from the first test piece, although they always "feel" second rate to me. I haven't given up on hand cutting them, but I can't think of anything else in my lifetime whose mastery has caused so much frustration.
Nice video. I left powered tool woodworking a few years ago when I saw introduced to hand tools. Believe it or not, I'd never seen a hand plane (or at least recognized one) until about 5 years ago. But I feel in love with the idea. I now have my own big set of hands tools. It takes me months to complete big projects like dressers, but I enjoy it so much more than I ever did using powered tools. Just turn on the radio and let the world drift away.
I too love to cut small amount of dovetails by hand and find it rewarding and relaxing. I love my D4R Pro for large production work. One suggestion if I may, the piece of wood that you clamped on top has a support and sacricial purpose . You’re suposed to bring it to the front touching the back of your board once set to final position to prevent tearout.
JOSH, YOJ ARE AMAZING!!!
THANK YOU! FOR SHARING THIS VIDEO!!
I am excited to make dovetail joints by hand for my next toolbox!
Josh, I give you a thumbs double up on both you presentation and content. Wood working was not my trade though having son a cabinet maker / custom wood worker I enjoyed it on the side for years. I was a purest at heart and would tease anyone who differed. Monday I experienced what you did in this video, I opened the box of my new Leigh dovetail jig. My heart is still a purest but my 82 year old body isn’t. I don’t have time to explain all that goes with that. It seems that the years don’t effect my Jig as much as the do my saw ! Mike
Thank you! Great video. I have both setups and agree with you that they both have there place. I’m looking forward to your next video.
Glad it was helpful!
The hand tool method is my preferred method as all the tools can be used in other tasks, and those jigs confuse me. Keep up the craft, you are an artist.
If you are a small workshop then the best option is hand cut joints. If you are operating a higher output then you probably need to be using a jig but in doing that you need to have a method and system fully worked out to maximize output.
I really enjoyed your video and commentary. I’m a primary power tool user in my home 3 car garage that I share with two vehicles at night. All my power tools lumber, hand tools and machines are stored in one bay of the garage and on wheels. I have no hand tool joiners workbench and rely on my Festool MFT/3 as my only work surface. I have dreams of making a workbench such as yours but unfortunately I have no room. I do own the Leigh DR4 Pro with the accessory kit. I find it easy to setup and get to work with very accurate joints in variable spacing which helps create my custom look.
Sometimes as a woodworker I find myself overly concerned and stressed about making something that will be indistinguishable from the best when nobody in my circle of family and friends would ever appreciate. This Leigh jig and any of their other ones are all fantastic for the hobbyist woodworker. I wish I had the skills for hand cutting and the tools required but that would be a gift to myself I can’t afford. I sure like to see the handwork of others who are under different circumstances and their artistic ability.
You could build a bench that takes up the same foot print as your MFT if you so desire. If you wanted to you could innovate and build a bench that can be stored away. You could double a bench as a cabinet system as well to store your stuff into.
The sky is the limits of your imagination.
Just bought the Leigh d4r pro as well. I'd never cut a dovetail without hand tools. Initial setup took me some time, but with the Bosch router and the d4r it makes quick beautiful tails. Hand tools are fun and quiet, but sometimes my time wins that battle.
Very true!
If you’re retired or woodwork for relaxation then hand cut is the way. If you’re selling your work and competing against ikea then efficiency and machines are how you make more than $1/hr. I’m sure there are people out there willing to pay thousands for a hand made bed side table but the market is so small you could never make a living unless you’re already famous.
@Mark McMinn
If you are aiming to be at the high end you really need to be producing the best designs and quality and not just relying on people liking the idea of hand made. Most people cannot tell the difference.
En español: Completamente de acuerdo. En mi caso, trabajo la madera sólo por relajación, para contrarrestar el estrés causado por el trabajo y para ocuparme algunas noches (y no sentarme a ver TV o el móvil), por lo que uso sólo herramientas manuales. Pero si se tratara de un oficio, creo que las herramientas eléctricas serían de gran ayuda, ya que ningún cliente te esperaría 3 o 4 meses para que le hagas un mueble.
"the older I get the more I believe in second chances"...truer words have never been spoken.
Thanks for the video. I plan on buying the Leigh D4R jig for bigger projects and using my hand tools for small ones. Don’t forget the cost of the sharpening equipment and learning curve to get a sharp chisel.
Nice comparison. One point about cost - like the router itself, most of us probably own most of the hand tools already, and use them for other tasks. So cost is usually the jig vs just a few specialist hand tools - dovetail saw, corner chisel and maybe dividers or a single bevel knife.
Friend, thanks for the detailed comparative review of the tool.
I also have a Leigh D4R Pro 24 ", but it has been gathering dust on the shelf for a couple of years now. After your video, I think it's time to blow off the dust.
Glad it was helpful!
I truly admire those who can hand cut beautiful dovetails. I have tried very hard to obtain decent results with hand cutting and must confess I have never been satisfied with the outcome and I totally understand this is all on me. I think I have messed up enough very nice wood that I need to try a new approach. Really appreciate this unbiased review and love the "French poetry" analogy :).
Have you watched my last video on cutting straight with a dovetail saw? That could really help your dovetails!
@@WoodAndShop Thank you Josh for taking the time to give me the tip. I will do this right away. Thanks again.
Thank you very much for your video. Really appreciate your clear and concise description of your experience.
Looking forward to your next video on dovetails
Coming soon!
Thank you for another great video about woodworking. I agree with you all the way. When doing lots of dovetails the jig will prove its value for the majority of us. Unless you are mastering the speed and method of masters like Frank Klausz that is.. 😜
For me hand tools are best. The peace and quiet and joy in the journey is a slower pace than the rat race we reside in and very much welcomed.
Great video! Simple, straight forward! Thanks for your time!
Great video - but when handcut, dovetails can be done in any way imaginable, and as you did point out, you can cut tiny pins by hand if you so wish. Appearance goes to handcut, for sure.
Considering the jig he was using you may not be able to get quite as small of pin set but you can pretty much create any spacing between the pins and the tails that you want. Many of dovetail jig requires you to Cut your pins and tails at a certain distance apart with no option but that jig which is kind of pricey you can pretty much space them out the same way you might want to by hand.
One comment I would make is hand tools offer a lot of bang for the buck. To my mind, the nice assortment of tools used for hand cutting dovetails beats spending the money for a single purpose tool. The jig (admittedly a timesaver) is going to be on the shelf a lot when compared to the chisels, saws, etc. Not that I have ever used the jig, I still have a lot of improvement to go on my dovetail skills. Enjoyed the video.
Frank Klauz has a fun little video of how dovetails were done before power tools were a thing. There was no time to mess around with squares, guages and dividers. It was all done by eye with the joint straight off the saw. If you look at antique furniture you will see the spacing is not absolutely perfect and the saw cuts often go a little past the line especially in utillity furniture or where the joint is out of view. People imagine all woodworking should be perfect like Chipendale but that was only for those who could pay for perfection.
I just bought the incra LS for my shop made router cabinet. The LS doesn’t use a jig but it’s just as expensive. I haven’t cut dovetails yet but the setup seems to be much easier than the jig you used. I wonder how that would compare.
I love the idea of hand tool usage, but the time seems to be a big advantage for machine cut joinery. Appreciate your honesty about the hand tool snobs. I like your balanced approach. You’re an inspiration to many of us. God bless.
Once you build up the skills and speed at doing hand cut dovetails you would find it a chore to actually go to the bother of setting up a jig.
I can cut a set of dovetails in several minutes by the time I would even have the jig set up. And then there is the fact I can do the dovetails in any dimensions and style that I want. I can make them even, uneven or play design looks on them.
I can also mix joints including dovetails and finger joints if I so desire.
Have been learning to hand cut and my second ones weren't too bad.I have an old JessEm Rout-R-Slide router table that can be set up to cut dovetails. I thought it was complicated, but probably less so than the Leigh. However, it is no longer in production. I seldom have any scrap the same width and thickness of my project to use for a test, so that is another factor in favor of hand cutting.
Great analysis. Enjoyed the video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
My shop was originally an all power tool shop...yes I have a dovetail jig for my router. However, as I got older and my asthma go worse, I transitioned to hand tools. In some cases, I can have a joint cut before I can get a power tool set up. I don't do production woodworking, so there is no need for me to set up power tools for batch production.
Thank you for this. It's very helpful.
I have a Leigh D4R jig that I haven't used in over 3 years. Like you suggest in your summary, I only use the Leigh jig when doing large projects such as a chest of drawers. Otherwise, I do it by hand, though I think the Leigh dovetails probably look better as I'm not very good at hand cut dovetails (yet).
If you are working on a larger project you can still do it all by hand and do not need a jig but if you are outputting several larger projects a week then you probably will need to be using a jig and looking at efficiency in the overall output.
Thank you for posting this. I have always cut my dovetails by hand because I've never owned a jig. When I first saw the Leigh jig on The New Yankee Workshop I wondered which arm I would have to sell to buy it. I see that hasn't changed. I don't do enough dovetail work to justify the cost at this point. I would like to get to that point though. Take care.
Buy a used one. You can pick up a good Leigh jig (D4) for under $200. I have purchased D4's for as little as $75. with the vacuum attachment and a set of 8 Leigh bits. Shop around.
Great overview, if you have chosen Rob's saw's then you would know of his joint layout process nice and accurate straight from the saw. still not as quick as a set up machine jig as explained but a lot less hassle-free around the pin cleanup/precession... enjoyed the content. great channel
Very straight forward. Thanks
You're welcome Harry!
Great comparison of the two methods Joshua, much appreciated. And I have to say the “cutting dovetails by candlelight while reading French poetry” had me laughing pretty hard. And the kids looked very excited for their chests! Always fun to see.
Did I notice a Rob Cosman saw? I know you did a review of Florip so what are your thoughts of the Cosman saw? I’ve always been curious about them but they are a bit in the spendy side.
Thanks again Joshua.
Thanks Michael! I'm still testing out the Cosman saws, so it's hard for me to say if they're worth $250 yet.
When the power is off, thank the 'boss' for the hand tools!
Im perplexed that you only gave a slight edge to the cost of hand tools. IMO they are clearly the more cost effective option. All of the hand tools are multi purpose while the jig serves one purpose only: cutting dovetails (with the exception of the router).
I thought the same thing, came straight to the comment section to mention. I have no tools that I use only for dovetailing, other than a template (which I made, so $0)
Not only hand cutting, but also hand drilling, hand planing is better. Best regards.
Cool!!!! Thank You!!!! 👍😎😃
Fantastic video, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃
Well, I'm starting woodworking for hobby, so hand cut for me. At least for now! In the future, however... Who knows. 😊
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
for an occasional box or drawer, handcut is the way to go. But if batching out an entire kitchen, the jig makes the most sense.
As a hobbiest I think the hand tool method for me. Although, I still have to learn it! Lol
Excelente video! Greetings from México!
Both have their place.
Thank you very much.
Welcome 😊
One factor to consider is the length of piece that will fit under the jig. How would you use it on a dresser side?
The D4R Pro will accept a piece up to 24’’ wide and the lenght is only limited by the size of your shop
Okay, and what about using the routertable with a jig sled?
I haven't used that method
For a novice who doesn’t know how to or have experience with cutting dovetails by the time they practice enough that they feel they can start working on the expensive wood for their project they could’ve figured out how to set up the jig and probably end up with much better dovetails. For the experience woodworker who knows how to cut dovetails by hand the decision becomes more based on the quantity of dovetails to be cut. If you’re making one box or chest you may prefer to just simply use the hand tools and sit back and relax in your shop cutting out all the details. If you’re going to be producing a lot of boxes or drawers with dovetails for example a chest of drawers with dovetail connections in the drawers and on the chest then you probably want to break out your jig especially for the drawers. The outer carcass of your chest of drawers may actually be too big for a standardized jig and would require specially jig which may make it where you would not want to use the jig method and instead go to the hand cut. It really just comes down to use the right tool for the job, if you had to add six small numbers would you really go looking for a calculator or grab your laptop or would you just grab a pencil and paper or as so many of us do in the wood shop, A pencil and piece of scrap board.
The problem with the jig is you can really only cut a dovetail that is sized for the jig. With dovetail cutting skills you can make them as large or small as you like, as spaced as you like or in any style that you desire.
Jigs are great when you want high out put and have a production system set up for your self for higher output.
If you are a hobbyist learn to cut them by hand and it will be far more rewarding and also build your skills. By your tenth dovetail you will start to build confidence and by your one thousands you will feel like a master.
@@bighands69 As a hobbyist I have a jig that I use mostly for the drawers or making furniture with drawers it just increases the speed I sort of said that in a roundabout way up above. The carcass could be way too big for my jig but I generally don’t make drawers more than 12 inches deep
'Nothing against French poetry . . .' Love it!
Great video
No dimestore tools in your kit. It's refreshing to see the focus of a video be the expeditious production of high quality, fine-looking multiples. You put out first rate videos and don't stack the deck in your assessments. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it Mark!
Long story short: it's purely the maker`s preference to meet the desired outcome.
Thanks for sharing
You bet!
You can use a pencil to Speed The Cutting of both the details and the pins but using a wedge
very good, thanks
Welcome!
I think the jig is probably going to guarantee consistently clean, tight joints faster than working with hand tools. But unless you have a lot of dovetails to cut I don't see that it is worth the time to set up the jig and pull out the router. There is another issue that power tools create which some may care about and others not. Loss of the skill is an issue created by power tools and jigs.
I can cut a dovetail to perfection by the time I have the jig out and set up. The skills you obtain by learning to cut them by hand is far more important.
Also I can work in a complete power cut which is not the case for machine dovetails. Hand cut jigs are no easier to use than hand cut dovetails.
@@bighands69 How long did it take you to become this accurate? I used to be able to cut a straight line with a handsaw across a wide board when I was young. Then came years of power tool use. Now, much older. ok just plain old and getting back to hand tools, I need a lot of practice. At first I thought it was the fault of my Japanese pull saw. Rob Cosman said because the blades are so thin they tend to go off course. So, I got a Veritas dovetail saw. It's ok but I have a problem with it, besides not doing any better of a job with it. I find it far too light weight. Now with the wind knocked out of my sails, I thought perhaps I should concentrate on mortise and tenon joints. I've never cut one. I got a new saw but this time went for the PAX tenon saw. I tried one cut just for fun yesterday on the end of a small scrap piece of pine. Besides making my first cut on the wrong side of the one line which meant moving my second cut over also to keep the gap at 1/4", the cuts themselves worked pretty well for a first try. So, I need serious practice, but it also helps to have decent tools.
@@craigmouldey2339
I would suggest the best course of action is just to get scrap wood or cheap wood and attempt to cut as many dovetails as you can.
The first several will not be good but you will start to notice where you can improve. I would suggest with cutting is saw near to the line but not on it and then pair back with a chisel.
Now with a dovetail you can cut the pins right on the line if you desire and then when you have the waste cut out transfer it to the slot by using a pencil.
When you do about 10 of them you will start to gain a little bit of confidence and 100 you will feel proficient and by 1000 you will be an expert.
Get as many scrap bits of wood as you can and just start experimenting and trying to improve.
Trust me if it was really easy everybody would be doing it and charging money but since it is not you have to build up a little bit of skill. While it is a challenge it can be achieved by everybody.
Also if you want to practice cutting straight lines do it on really shallow cuts many times get your brain adjusted to the concept and it will build your confidence.
@@bighands69 Thanks for the boost. I will give an example to show I need practice. I tried dovetails a few days ago using two small scraps of pine. Starting my cut next to the pencil line on the end of the board, I'm trying to cut straight. But this has to be quickly changed to an angle to match the dovetail angle as the cut proceeds. I actually caught myself, when I started to change the angle of the saw to match the dovetail, but still cutting in a straight line, my hand turned to the left slightly. So, I was basically making two angles, if you know what I mean. Practice, practice.
@@craigmouldey2339
You will make mistakes at first and they will not look nice and maybe not be that tight. So if you do a joint that is not tight and is loose try and do the next one that is tighter.
So cut it off the line and then pair it back with a good sharp chisel.
Have a look at what Peter Sellers does on his channels as they are a good starting point for learning the tools and how to cut the joints.
The key is in his opening words “traditional joinery”
*JIG, FTW.*
It's interesting.
If you are going to spend over $700 on the leigh jig why not pick up another router so you dont have to change bits?
Hands only!
Subscribed
Your hand is not a mallet! 😎
cost can be zero in hand method. all the tools used are common woodworking tools that most woodworker have and use in multiple situations.
Absolutely!
The using a bandsaw
For hand cut dovetail, it's not necessary to be uniform, so no need for divider and sliding bevel.
Yes, you are correct. That's what I'm mentioning in my next video. But when laying out a bunch of dovetails, it can speed things up and make them look more uniform.
@@WoodAndShop Thanks for the reply. Isn't not spend time marking save more time? I'm also considering if marking gauge is needed, so save more time not true the end square in the beginning.
Lets see, "I sometimes cut myself using hand tools, but I never get cut using the router"... That's a tie?? LOL LOL
I have the Leigh 24" jig, I haven't used it in many years... Why you may ask? Because I find it complicated and not fun at all for me to use! It DOES turn out nice dovetails, but it's just too much work for me! I can live with half blind dovetails...
I also have the Porter Cable dovetail jig for half blind dovetails, I love that jig and leave a router set up for it all the time! Using it is fast and it turns out quality dovetails. SR
Hybrid (hand tool and power) woodworking is a sign of higher IQ
Which even The Shakers knew! Heck…. it was a Shaker LADY (Sarah Tabitha Babbitt) who invented the power circular saw! Glory to God!!! 😮😊😂
I think the appeal of your channel is really all the hand craftiness and the lovely looking workshop, these georgeous workbenches.... definitely not this boring power tool wannabe woodworking that you see on many channels were people declare themselves woodworkers by spending thousands of dollars on some fancy domino joiner that does all the work for them. I use a router at times but its just such a messy and in my opinion extremely dangerous tool..... There's just no soul to it..... All this furniture that's built with toxic glues, ugly biscuits and dominos....nono, just not right! Same with these annoying orbital sanders, just messing up any squareness and being messy and loud. For me woodworking is using chisels, squares, saws...all that awesome stuff, thinking about clever joinery and not just cheating it together with some domino....
Domino's and Biscuit joints are fantastic for production outputs that allow people to earn a living. I would not be so quick to dispel them or be critical.
People that use them are still craftsmen.
@@bighands69 Well yes, you can make better money with it, but that whole thinking makes people use mountains of basically petroleum based plywood and mdf, using finishes that are highly toxic too. Its all about making fast money but forgetting how destructive that attitude is to the environment.
What about the fact that when you rely on a machine you're not developing the skills that help you in every other area of woodworking? Those skills are where the real value lies. The only skills you get from the power tools are in setting up jigs and learning how to use that specific tool.
Can we say that pros cannot reasonably avoid a dovetail jig while amateurs can freely choose ?
Another comment: whoever you are, you'll need a set of handtools for just general fine joinery. A dovetail jig is always going to be an addition to your handtools.
It depends on what you are doing as a pro. If you are only doing dovetails every now and then cutting them by hand is far easier than using a jig.
If you are doing thousands of them and have a high output then cutting them with a jig as part of a system is more efficient.
I can have a dovetails cut by hand by the time I get out a jig and get it set up.
Power routers will leave more dust in your lungs.
$1000 dovetail jig....? WTF
I'm sure that more than 90% of dovetails are on drawers and rarely, if ever seen. So, use a jig. The only way to get adept at really fine dovetail work is through countless hours of practice. You can have perfect dovetails the first, and every, time with a jig. Save the hand cutting for someone who wants to do it for fun. If you showed a jig and router to a craftsman 200 years ago (assuming you could solve the electricity thing), he/she would have used it immediately. I'm not sure when wood working became the last bastion of the mentality of "advance with technology this far, and no further." Makes no sense. If it's for fun, do whatever you want. If it's for your livelihood, do whatever gets you beautiful, near-perfect, easily-repeatable results so you can provide the best product at the least cost/labour. I mean, do we expect everyone to harvest the tree with an axe, hew it, split it, mill it, flatten and square it, then cut dovetails all with no power?! Ridiculous, if you're trying to earn a living. However, I love felling my own trees on my property (using a chainsaw) then paying someone to come with their mill and mill it. Then I take it into the shop, hit it with a bunch of machines, and presto-chango, beautiful furniture! Find whatever balance you like and do it. Who cares what anyone else thinks? Unless you're trying to make a living. Then...use your head and get the jig!
I totally agree! And do what you enjoy the most.
@@WoodAndShop I am a retired physician. I've taken at least 4 in person hand cut dovetail classes, including one that was a biweekly 14 week community college "hand tool joinery" class in which I never progressed past (or accomplished a single acceptable, to me) dovetail. Surgery is easier! I've managed to cut acceptable machine dovetails from the first test piece, although they always "feel" second rate to me. I haven't given up on hand cutting them, but I can't think of anything else in my lifetime whose mastery has caused so much frustration.