Vintage Neve 1073 vs. Vintech X73i Mic Pre Shootout
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- www.soundpure.c...
The Vintech X73i (Neve 1073) Replica is compared side-by-side an original pair of Vintage Neve 1073's in a scientific mic preamp shootout at Sound Pure recording studios. For the shootout, The Sound Pure Steinway Concert grand piano was recorded using a matched pair of Peluso P12 Tube microphones (Vintage Clones of the AKG C12 microphone) spaced across the piano's strings. Each microphones' output was split, one to the Neve and one to the Vintech X73i. Volume output at identical levels was tested by verifying virtually complete phase cancellation between the two signals when summed together (with one preamp set to phase reverse). The Vintage clone Vintech X73i blew the minds of the engineers at Sound Pure studios, as the differences between the Vintech and the Neve were imperceptible. After the listening, the Sound Pure engineers discuss their impressions of the sounds that they were hearing through the studio monitors in the Sound Pure control room. Sound Pure is a proud seller of Vintech products, and can be reached to answer any questions about the mic pre shootout, or if you'd like the high res audio files for your own listening. Sound Pure can be reached toll free at 888-528-9703.
I can hear differences on my neumann KH 120 monitors, and that difference is, the real neve's sound way better.
Doubt
Kool dry flex bro
@magicalmystery77 Hey, thanks for the comment, and for the careful listen. The only discernible difference we could hear between the preamps (after doing this test a lot more extensively than we could demo in a short video), was that the Neve has a good bit more of idling noise- just a higher noise floor in general. This honestly could be what you are hearing, and in some cases wouldn't be a bad thing. With repeated music playing through them, they could null to the point of only noise too!
The Vintech X73I sounded really good but the magic is in the Neve 1073. It had a larger than life sound as well as a richness the Vintech fell short of. Maybe in 20 years my Vintech X73, (3) X73I and 273 will sound more like the original. Dallas has made a fine product but I can hear the difference in the shootout like night and day. Even my pair of BAE 1073 doesn't sound the same as the original.
How much closer does the bae sound to the Neve compared?
I’ve heard bae might be using the same L01166 Neve output transformer...
@@caminglis53 I own two BAE 1073 with eq and they sound closer to the Neve but the age of the Neve changes over time and most units don't sound the same. Vintech is a high quality clone.
@@giugnete yes true. I have the stereo 1073 Neve (no EQ) I’ve also owned the Vintech at the same time, I thought they sounded some what similar but really not the same at all. I would use it for the EQ and other features.
The main thing that’s really different between Vintech and Neve 1073s is they feel way different! To my brother and I we would always call the Vintech a tube sound because of the different feeling it would involve 👍
The Neve 1073 always sounds like a normal recording, and that fact is amazing really ))
@@caminglis53 Most of the time I wouldn't use the EQ just engage it for a bit more color to the sound. In the age of digital recording the extra coloration and harmonics I can get always helps in my recordings.
Listening to this on ProAc monitors through Naim amplification, I can tell you that I did hear a difference. The vintage sounded warmer, and more buttery-smooth, while the new one sounded cleaner, more detailed, more tonally neutral, and had more authoritative bass. The new preamp definitely seemed to be more resolving on the decay, which might just mean it's less noisy than the vintage gear.
I prefer the vintage 1073 a little bit more than the vintech. I'm very skeptical that the vintech an the vintage neve completely phased out. There's no way that it can be possible. That being said, they are extremely close, and this video is extremely helpful. Thanks!
Vintech sounded clearer and more brighter but thinner, whereas the Neve sounded warmer and more dense. I like the neve better, the sound just melts in my ears like butter. There was a clear difference to me.
Golden ears through youtube compression - that exceeds gold, that's a dream come true. If you'd like to actually listen to the high resolution files, you might feel differently.
It's really easy to say one is better than the other when you know the results as you are hearing them... it's a lot more difficult to listen blind and feel the same way.
We've heard shootouts with 3x Vintage Neves, and a single Vintech, and not one of the 4x grammy-award winning engineers guessed the vintech!
Thanks. That's really interesting that you found there to be a big difference - we've tested numerous 1073 (originals) against the Vintechs, and found that the 1073's can differ from one another quite a bit. In fact, in one test we had 3x vintage 1073's with a Vintech, and no one could not pick out the Vintech, even knowing that it was one of the 4x recordings. Very interesting stuff... a lot of people don't realize how much difference can exist amongst older units themselves!
I didn't expect such a HUGE difference. But there it is.
The original sound warmer, smoother and big! Lost of low end and depth on the X73! The tonal balance is not the same!
Hey thanks. We love them, and actually we have a lot of visiting engineers and producers who say "what are those speakers" because they are so impressed with the detail and precision, but also the fact that they keep sounding great and don't fatigue the ears, even in longer sessions.
Thanks for the support. We were pretty excited about the results (as it was probably obvious from the reaction part of the video!)
That sounds great! The 273 has an identical preamp circuit as the X73i (which is what we tested), just a slightly more limited EQ, but in these videos we didn't test that portion. The 273 does give some extremely useful high and low shelving curves which are perfect for tracking situations. The more powerful EQ on the X73i is also powerful in mixing or mastering scenarios, if you are also concerned about a great EQ. We will shoot you a private message about picking one up...
Sounds like a pretty decent little lineup of gear that you've got. Just used a U5 on a major recording project that we finished yesterday. Honestly, we help studios of all shapes, sizes, and budgets, not just the huge record-label ones... in fact, most of our clients are home studios these days. The big boys just don't have the budgets to keep upgrading... let us know if we can help with anything you are doing at all. Thanks for the comments, we really enjoy the feedback!
See comments @ Beast 1333. Purpose of test was sound, and they nulled to the point where the two sat within the noise floor and did not register on the console meters... for the purpose of a listening test, it doesn't get any closer than that. We do appreciate the comment, we just don't want the focus to become something that it is not on this particular video. From a scientific standpoint, you are exactly right. The only nulling to true -infinity can occur with the same signal.
@Metalshad0 Thanks for your critical and careful listen. The reality is that we probably could have found a different pair of Neves that behaved a bit differently than these two, and the results could have been even far closer. We just had an experience here recently with a 1073 we rented for a job, and it was way "off." The old ones do have some variance, so it's likely that the differences here wouldn't be more than you would expect from two different sourced original vintage 1073s. Thanks!
So true! Although on reason to ask us for the files is for mobility - a lot of people enjoy taking those high resolution audio files to their preferred location for listening - car, ipod, home stereo, etc. The biggest mistake people make reviewing comparison videos like these (particularly where the results are so incredibly close), is trying to listen on their laptops at 360p!
I notice with these comparisons, it heavily depends on the source material. Drums behave differently then a piano, the transients are different, and you can start to hear the differences a lot more. But they both sound very nice. I also find the vintage gear is smoother.
Fantastic. If you want pristine clarity the vintech was perfect. If you want (slightly) lossy but AMAZING vibe and ear gold the 1073 is just...it’s beautiful. Great demo guys.
@RockHardPianist Thanks for the comment. We actually think that many people are so obsessed with the concept of "vintage" that they won't even consider the possibility that a new piece could replicate it. We don't hate vintage gear, in fact we love the sound. Problem is that we are looking for ways to create a sustainable future for gear, and the sustainable future lies in being able to clone sounds that we love so much- bottom line is that gear ages, and not always well. Thanks for posting!
@whitepapagold The engineers were not pretending to move faders and push buttons, they were simply solo-ing or muting the outputs of the two signals they were comparing. Thats called A/B-ing, which is what the guy said they were doing. Not everyone can afford or wants to deal with upkeep of vintage gear, so videos like this are a lot of help when choosing gear for a new studio.
Great guys! Wonderful test. Great to see knowledgeable people doing these test and its even greater that you can shut people down who are over technical and miss the topic of these type of test (SOUND).
We don't have a video on it [at least not yet]... but there are 3 main gain sections to these units. There is the main output amplifier [in the original its the B283] and two input gain amplifiers... one that is setup to take you to about 40db of gain and another for the rest of the gain scale. The output gain knob sits in the same place a fader would have sat on an old console... which will give you a fair margin of latitude in terms of crafting your sound vis a vis how hard you drive the amp
@headbagger63 Unfortunately, we have not made the test ourselves, but one of our very serious clients has made the test- he reported that the 1073 replica made by the new Neve is audibly different than a vintage 1073. He told us he was very disappointed given the price and actually sent it back. HE actually ended up with 4x X73i's. For most people when it gets down to the hair splitting, they'd rather have the sound "covered" than all their money tied up in something with the Neve badge on it
what a sweet job to have, great job on the test guys, I agree both preamps sounded more or less identical
@soundpurestudios Good point, yes a new sound vs the sound of older equipment. I was thinking there is something to the whole noise thing that's "needed" since Slate Digital decided to emulate it in the Virtual Console Collection. They talk about it in the behind the scenes as being the glue for the mix by using it on each channel over some mix bus ultra summing algorithm. With the Vintech, I'm sure they can come close with some digital plugin or analog method/tape saturation or something.
The Vintech has a little more high end making it a little brighter. The original 1073 sounds much richer and warmer/more natural extraordinarily beautiful sound.
Listening in my studio on good monitors. I am surprised all these guys in their studio couldn't hear the difference. I wanted to like the Vintec but OMG the 1073s are sooo much better! They sound similar but they feel so different. The Neves have a dimension and harmonic content that melts that piano into my brain. I could listen forever. The Vintecs sound great, clean and nice. Great Piano micing in general though. Nice comparison, but I still don't know what to buy now lol.
Exactly 💯✔️
@completeinssolutions Thanks for listening and commenting. Interesting take. The variations from one VINTAGE 1073 to another can be enormous. We have done this test many, many times, and have found a substantial variation accross the modules that we have encountered. The only real difference between the Vintech X73i and any one 1073 that you choose will be differences based on THAT 1073. The Vintech's remain far, far more consistent from unit-to-unti given that their parts are brand new.
@147xxx ?????? We are highly confused by your comment- did you watch the video? The comparison was against a Vintage Neve rack unit. This comparison was about a Vintage Neve 1073, as compared to the Vintech X73i replica. We were not comparing it to a console, nor a preamp sitting in a console. However, the Neve 1073's do come out of consoles, typically. I hope this clears up your confusion- perhaps you should take another watch of the video.
@VintecFreak They were reversed for verifying the audio indeed phase-cancelled to ensure we were at the same volume within .1dB or so. The purpose was to ensure that volume differences did not leave a lasting impression confusing the listening, and the phases weren't reset- funny thing is that despite the phase difference, people are having trouble discerning any differences! After a year and 10,000 views you are the only 1. Thanks for pointing this out. Guess they are even closer in sound!
@gclef101 Thanks for the comments! The OneQ is a great entry into outboard EQ and Compression. While the preamp and other components aren't going to be as good as the Vintech or Vintage Neve, you are getting a LOT of bang for your buck for under $1k. Depending on your needs, the OneQ will certainly get the job done. I'll PM you and we'll discuss this more at length.
The Bricasti M7 is probably the best, most natural sounding reverb, that has ever been created. We hope to have some clips of it live on youtube next week. Casey, yhe designer of Bricasti was just here, and we caught some video with him, and ran a few tracks through the Bricasti... it is stunning. It gets used on every session here at Sound Pure. We can't (and won't) go without one!
@mrmichaellpenman Right, agreed. That's why Vintech replicated it in a more logical layout that made them easier to reproduce. The signal path of those old circuits was copied- that's why the Vintech is such an authentic recreation. One thing is for sure Mr. Neve was a genius that was way ahead of his time! The good news is that now, compliments of Vintech, you don't have to be a museum to own a piece of that historical sound- thanks for the comment!
@starchildExcalibur Thanks for the comment, and the careful listen- with all honesty, that hasn't been our experience at all, nor the experience of the others who have done the direct side-by-side comparison. Have you listened to our high resolution audio files? We will gladly send them your way! If you listen to the high resolution audio files blindly, your ears will probably play tricks on you the way that they have with the others around here! More shootouts coming. Thanks for posting!
@didubz Thanks for the idea- unfortunately we don't have those EXACT Vintage 1073's to do that sort of testing, and the Vintage ones really do differ from one to another. When we are able to get things this close in comparing a brand new piece (with consistent components that are new), and we have various originals that are 40 years old, if we repeated the expirament over and over again (with different originals), you'd probably hear subtle differences each time- that's been our experience.
@VintecFreak The purpose is to listen to the file, purportedly still phase inversed, in-phase, so that any phase differences or anomalies that you are hearing are eliminated from your ability to listen to the two files in-phase with one another.
All this being said, the real test is owning the X73i's side-by-side vintage 1073's and using them interchangeably on lots of applications, and finding yourself blindly wondering which is which, as we have done, and many other engineers have as well.
@SteveBrownOfficial Thank you Steve for the comment, it is our pleasure! Please let us know if we can help in any way with any gear needs that you might have, or any recording suggestions that you may need.
@Whyrendog Well, this is a common misconception- there is nothing about idle-based (no signal), pure hiss, noise floor that is desirable or worth emulating. There is, however, the type of "noise" that is a harmonic distortion associated with an input signal, and the Vintech actually has every last bit of that, on the spot. Vintech could have easily manufactured a noisier unit, but no engineer would desire that- even vintage boxes, when refurbed or racked are designed to reduce idle noise.
The 1073 sounds so much better.
4:26 NEVE 5:40 VINTECH 4:40 NEVE 5:55 VINTECH Have to admit the vintech had much more cleaner upper mid tone compared to the neve although the neve kicked ass its clarity was not there as good.
Correct.
Listen to how clear and musical the sustain is singing on the first Neve 1073 recording. And I own two vintech x73i so I wish but the Neve sounds like a different decade for sure.
@Embowafa2004 Thanks for the great post here. Unfortunately we are in NC, but if you are in the area, you are more than welcome to participate in any of the many shootouts that we are doing on all sorts of instruments. We can only afford to release a small handful of the shootouts that we actually conduct, but we are constantly testing and comparing... constantly! If you need any opinions, advice, etc. please don't hesitate to give us a ring.
@Whyrendog Fair enough... but keep in mind, Neve 1073's do absolutely have differences from one another- that's just due to the age of the units, recaps, etc. If you put two 1073's under a microscope you would find exactly the same thing. We certainly aren't making the claim that these exact x73i's are exactly the same as the Neve 1073's, just that they are as close to those 1073's as any old 1073's would be to another. Noisefloor/hiss really is the only difference, not something to replicate
@Beast1333- when the units sum to the point that they don't register on the audio meters, and the audio sits at the noise floor and only contributes to the perception of noise/interference, in our opinion, for the purposes of a listening test, that is as good as it can and will get. Agree, unless the signals are actually the same, null to minus infinity is impossible, but for the purpose of a listening test, they "null to zero" as much as we have ever experienced-well sufficient for this
There are all kinds of fun things you can do with this style amplifier in terms of creating harmonic distortions that are musically pleasing. Driving the intermediate gain stage's tantalum capacitors [which have a constant DC voltage sitting on them] can create an "air" that goes very pleasantly with the character of the low frequency phase shift caused by the input and output transformers. The low frequency saturation characteristics of the LO1166 output transformer is also a consideration.
@TheDelicateOFFICIAL Are you serious? The piano gets tuned before every session by the top Steinway Technician in the area. It is regulated and voiced to concert caliber, and is praised by every major label pianist that comes in here to do work. If you are talking about the fact that the piano is out of tune when we did this shootout, your are Right! No, we did not tune the piano before the shootout, but I don't quite see how that is relevant in determining the comparison between two preamps?
@michelepellino Sure, thanks... it's a tough balance- I think our videos have gotten a lot better, this one was posted over a year, but the challenge is appealing to such very diverse backgrounds... some of our subscribers barely know what a mic preamp is, and some are grammy-winning engineers, so it's really tough... perhaps this one has a bit of that "appealing to the least common denominator" to it. But, we certainly support beginners as well... thanks for watching and supporting us!
@KingforadayBand I recommend that you ask for the high resolution files, which we will gladly send. Anything that you heard through youtube is completely unreliable !!! Not that it won't be "in the ballpark" if you are at least listening through at 720p... but many engineers have heard the original files here in our acoustically tuned rooms without coming to that conclusion, just FYI. But yeah, you really can't trust youtube sounds- anything is possible listening through their compression !
@CoGnAcDiPpEd1 Thanks for commenting- we can definitely help you when you are ready to grab your X73i, we try to keep them in stock at all times! We happen to also like the ADL600. They are quite different sonically, but both wonderful sounding, and both very musical and versatile. What type of music and instruments are you recording? In a perfect world you could own both of these amazing things. The 1073/x73i is something very special for sure.
@Embowafa2004 Thanks for the comment. We agree with what you are saying. Vintage, New, whatever, the sound is the ultimately importance. The worst part from our perspective is that when we actually A/B compare gear here, we do it blindly, and that's probably the way it should be presented on youtube. If you tell people what they are listening to, many people, even great engineers become biased by this fact.
there i virtually no difference. And if there is a difference it isn't gonna be the reason your song is gonna be a hit or not.
I imagine the differences you were hearing might be due to the slightly higher noise floor on the vintage units, which can make it sound like a shimmer, but really it is a subtle additional amount of hiss. This test has been done all over the world in world class studios with top engineers, and no one can definitely articulate that the differences are larger than the differences between one Neve to another. Would you like the high res audio versions? With you tube audio compression, not idea.
@ghaibboy We tested this on a lot more than just piano, but since the piano had the largest range, has fast articulation, and tons of harmonic information, out of all of the tests that we did, this one seemed to say the most. In our more recent tests we do attempt to demonstrate comparisons in more than just one context. Thanks for your comment-we have many more of these coming, and will take your advice into account. Let us know if you want to chat about these, since we have done more tests
@aandiee Well, It is a "clone" of the audio path, but the original parts are no longer manufactured. The X73 actually even clones the point-to-point wiring which is kind of unnecessary, hence they created the X73i which is a clone of the audio path, and transformers, but done with the use of come ciruit boards to drastically reduce the cost of labor, which Vintech is able to pass along to their customers. For those that want "clone" they can pay more for the X73, but the sound is identical.
@jujufactory We didn't forget- actually we tested it that way too. On a LOT of different sources, loud, quiet, fast, slow- the results are the same. We couldn't do a video on every single iteration, sorry. The range of the piano makes it a great test for preamps in general, not just Neve-clones. There are pres that claim to be Neve-style, that you are right, don't handle being pushed harder, but they don't sound identical on quiet passages either. This one handles all of it, no joke.
@Zack8133 Oh, that should have been more clear! Dallas Upton is the owner of Vintech, responsible for reverse engineering the 1073 and ultimately the creation of what is the X73i.
@MrArmen1157 Thanks for watching, posting, and for the critical listen! If you want to discuss any of the options that are out there, we are always here for you.
I hate how this company passively bashes older analogue stuff. "It will break" "it's unreliable". This is the second video I've seen where they've done this.
its true! like any old piece of gear. They don't make them anymore what else can you expect! something or someone needed to replace them at some point
I have been looking at preamps for awhile and i think i will build my studio around a couple of these x73i's! I agree with the gentleman who stated the transients seemed more focused on the original but for the price difference and reliability i can certainly live with such a small difference! I really like the Peluso P12 paired with the x73! Thanks again and nicely done!
@VintecFreak Are you listening to these clips using the 720p (HD) youtube setting? If not, things can definitely be very phasey. Are you referring to the two clips sounding out of phase to each other, or the microphone positioning inside the clip sounding phasey? Perhaps you would like to hear the high resolution audio samples for yourself- you know those are always available- you just have to e-mail us and we will send them right out to you... lots of these have sent for critical listen!
Thanks a lot for the comment! Interesting to hear- we tried the same test on several different sources (including a snare), and even matched the EQ's on some material. I know that there can be major differences among the vintage 1073's due to their age... but we weren't able to recreate and major differences. Do you think that the differences could have to do with the 1073 you tested, or did you try multiple units? We only had the one pair here and they were spot-on in all tests that we did.
@soundpurestudios logical and obvious point...thanks for putting this shootout up and have a great day
@KingforadayBand Thanks for listening. If you heard real differences you are one of a tiny %! Are you saying that through UA-cam, or did you request the high resolution audio files? Not sure what your listening environment is, but you will be one of the only people that have heard and posted hearing any real articulated differences. Not saying you didn't hear something, but in a year of having this posted, and a year of sending out high res audio files, few came to the same conclusion.
@Kazerecords That's interesting... the reality is that if we had a lineup of 6 old NEve 1073's and stuck this one in the middle, in a blind test, you can't tell which one is the Vintech. I've done that test too! They are so close, that really, they are as close to one 1073 as an old 1073 is to another... in the end, we completely agree. Both sound incredible. Our argument of course is that one costs a fortune, the other affordable and comes with a warranty and a maintenance free promise!
Yeah. My brother works for a friend of ours that used to carry Focal. Those beryllium tweeters are awesome. We're actually working on recording with our small time home recording studio. We've got a couple RME preamps. An Avalon U5, Dynaudio monitors. It does the job.
@soundpurestudios thanks for the reply.. and thanks for guiding us into the right option of a thousand gear ou there..
keep the clean sound and video quality guys.. you are the best i guess :)
we wait here...
greetings from bali-indonesia
Thanks for the comment though... while you are speaking in mathematical truths, we are talking about "nulling completely" for the purposes of conducting a test between the two- and for that purpose they nulled to the point of imperception. Sonically (the purpose of the test) resulted in hearing that the two were closer than 5x very experienced engineers could distinguish! Pretty good given these were exposed tests (not in a mix) The focus of this test is on sound. Thanks again for the comment.
@Metalshad0 There are actually a large number of factors that relate to the sound, including the circuit, the pots and switches, but yes, the transformers play a really huge role in these things- but they are not the only role. The reality is, largely due to how remarkably wonderful the various Vintage Neve preamps sound, people like Vintech have done a fabulous job replicating it- be sure and check out our video on the 573 (Vintech's 500-series module) against a vintage 1073.
Lynx "Aurora" converters... there is 32 I/O of them at SoundPure Studios. We have tried a bunch [and I do mean A BUNCH] of others and these keep winning shoot out after shoot out after shoot out.
They're absolutely fantastic little boxes that do their job in a wonderfully competent manner!!
@ghaibboy It's our pleasure... also, you should know, if you don't have a good pro audio dealer in your area, we can ship most of the equipment that we sell internationally (with manufacturer permission), and would be glad to help in any way that we can.
Neve just automatically hits the sweet spot, for me the Vintech is slighly colder and less focused, and bit boxy, though quite a good copy. You need good headphones to tell the difference, and for me a "small" variation in the sound might not seem so big of a deal, but it's fundamental in a sense of getting the sound right.
And how much of what youre hearing is conformation bias?
Blind test is the only way to know for sure
@dresdenandjohnston Actually, the other notable point is that in our tests that we conducted a couple years back, the Vintech actually sounded most like the original vintage unit than did the Neve reissue... we were shocked. If differences were discernible, they were most noticeable in the reissue. However, between the Vintechs and the Neve originals that we shot out (on a lot more applications that we demo'd here), the Vintechs seems as close to any one Neve as the old pre's were to eachother
@MartinRyleOShea Thanks for the comment! We can certainly make it happen when you are ready :)
@drumlyell We appreciate your post as well. We've got no problem with anyone posting their thoughts and opinions, but when it becomes hostile, unhelpful, or some sort of personal agenda, we don't feel that it really helps anyone. Anyway, appreciate you saying something here. Please let us know if we can help you in any way!
@leparditas This is the slat wall system that is layed on top of the original concrete/brick 13" shell. They really serve as acoustics only, not as sound-proofing per se.
@VintecFreak A lot of very serious professional engineers with great names and great reputations have been enjoying this video, and asked for the high resolution sound clips. It's likely that they simply reversed the polarity of the clips when they got the high resolution versions to them, who knows. It's something we do frequently here without much thought, so not a big deal from our viewpoint. So, with the polarity reversed back on the out-of-phase clip, are these close enough for comfort?
@RAYGproductions Thanks, Ray, yes these definitely should be in your studio!
@soundpurestudios thanks SOundPure Appreciatte People and studios like you wanting to help out an better music in all its forms
@tricky717 Absolutely. Honsetly, this is what we do... that being said we will want to narrow down your applications, and primary purpose (as well as the importance of any secondary recording you plan to do with the M149 through this signal path). We own and frequently use our matched pari of Neumann M149's in our studios here with a HUGE variety of mic pres, and will definitely be able to steer you in the right direction once we know more about the kind of work you are doing-will shoot a PM
@Whyrendog We just had the pleasure of visiting an entire jazz tracking session divided accross all channels of Vintage Neve, and brand new Vintech units over at Quad Studios in New York City. There were some absolute A-list recording engineers there- they couldn't hear the difference when making the switch, accross entire mixes, nor on the individual channels... it was pretty awesome to see it done that way. There is a difference- there is more noise on the older units
@paynebabes123 Generally agree, but, there is a certain fragility associated with the gear that is of a certain age, regardless of how well maintained it is. But agreed, ANY old gear requires a certain amount of TLC and maintenance, in order to get the most of it. We aren't interested in slamming old gear (we've got a lot of vintage keyboards around here for example), just enlightening people about the proximity some new gear can be to the vintage originals without the cost, or age-issues.
@Theseventhknight Nobody said that "digital recording has ruined music" -- our studio is based around digital recording, the console is a "control surface" - we fully endorse, support and employ digital recording!!
The high price of "classic gear" has really been caused by "vintage equipment" dealer's pushing the envelop of what they can charge for the units as well as "supply and demand". The X-73i addresses this unnecessary price disparity in a convenient, rack mountable, elegant solution.
@desol333 Thanks for the comments by the way, this is why we wanted to put this out there! IF you think that our videos could be better or of more use, we are always ears. We are putting extreme efforts into making these the best that they can be, and your comments are always welcome
@kidmoonmoon Absolutely- we are here whenever you are ready to help make it happen (best prices around also!)
Sorry to say, but the art of recording doesn't really involve pushing preamps to the point of breaking up. Some are graceful, others are harsh - doesn't make one better than another. We deal in guitars- that's where the break-up/distortion counts. With preamps, the art rests in the subtlety, versatility, and musicality. We never test a preamp on a single source or a single gain setting, it's always across multiple mediums, and multiple gains. These hold their own beautifully, all accounts
Glad you were able to check it out in that environment!! When you consider the price difference between "new" and "40+ years old" the tonal difference on the transients really isn't worth the extra money [unless your accountant tells you that you need to spend a truckload of cash because you just won a Grammy]
@Wermiin To a certain degree we have to agree. Even vintage 1073's will differ from one another- anything that old is bound to have subtle differences between them. But as far as the C12, Replica means replica. I'm not sure why that is bullocks? Just as 1073 replicas differ from one another in subtle ways, so do older 1073's from one another due to the aging and subtle ways transformers will differ in the aging process. This is even more true of microphone capsules. Have you heard the P12?
Listening to the octaves in my Grados at 4.26 and 5.40, there was a pleasing low resonance in the Neve, and greater dynamic dimension, the vintech tonally was 95% identical! Yet sounded slightly covered, lacking the same life, esp in the high mids. Neve 1073LB and LBEQ are £1700 (Double) but most likely worth-it.
+Dan Joseph If you could pick out the Neve BLIND then I would be very impressed.
+AdonisAiolos tons of people can. ESPECIALLY if you are in the same room. I traded my Vintechs for BAE pres a long time ago and neve-r went back lol. the vintechs wee great but not equal in any way shape or form.
The more you crank the magic red knob on a Neve, the darker, aggressive, compressed but not squashed the sound becomes, I wonder how the knob responds on the Vintech, but have no need atm.
@T74G The only reason to demonstrate the phase cancellation in this case was to match the volume levels of the two different preamps in the comparison- if one preamp was louder, even in a very slight way, one might sound better or just different than another. With the phase cancellation so tight when we tested them in this case, it was a demonstration that the volume was not only locked, but the frequencies were incredibly close to each other demonstrating their extreme similarity. Make sense?
@akos15 Thanks for your comment, gonna have to respectfully disagree. Any differences, if there are any at all, are going to have to at least be noticeable on a completely dry, completely clean recording. If you can't hear the differences on the dry and exposed comparison, you absolutely won't hear any as it finds its way into a more dense mix. I know what you mean by mediocre pieces of gear not hanging in the mix, but when two things sound identical, the mix definitely won't make things dif
The Neve sounded 3D and complex with rich tonality like a large budget recording and the vintech sounded completely flat like a bottom of the line beginner piece of equipment, it even had some ugly distortion I didn't like mixed in. To me there's just a huge difference. I could pick these out in an ABX blind test all day. I went into this wanting to believe the more inexpensive gear would do well, but it doesn't. That being said, this is a very revealing and informative video with a good source sound that revealed the difference.
@desol333 Sorry you aren't a fan of the free video that we put out there. A vocal has a much more limited range, and a lot less attack, which would make the differences if there actually were any much harder to discern- we consciously chose not to hear any. Even among many Grammy-winning engineers that have done this very shootout, no one can hear a difference, and the last thing that they can do is say that one is better than the other. Are you basing this comment on what you heard? Thx tho.
@desol333 Thanks man, will do. Not sure when we will get Vintage one back in here, totally depends on the artist/producer requirements... could be tomorrow or in a year, but we have some other things we'd liek to do with them when we get them back here next!
@TheeAldeen Heheh- thanks for saying! We're not as young as we look- a couple of us on this video have 20+ years each of recording experience. While the youngest members of our crew were the ones responsible for putting this particular video together, there are guys at SP with multiple multi-platinum records, and Grammy-award nominations. Point is, if you are looking for real battle-proven studio advice, we have plenty of real-world experience to help you through your next decision.
@Onetruthrgv Well, the Auroras are also nice, but they are not true clones of the original Neve 1073, they are sort of "twists" on the Neve design... there are a lot of companies making Neve inspired preamps- one of our favorites is the Great River MP2NV. But for the spot-on Neve thing, the Vintech is tough to argue with. And the price of the X73i is simply fantastic.
@dkillian12 We agree! Rupert is one of the greatest builders in the history of audio. We are of course a Neve Portico dealer, hope that you got them from us! We are here to help with any comparisons that you want us to help you make, and to bounce any ideas that you might have- and of course, we will beat any price to make sure that in addition to the best possible advice, we can also get you the best possible pricing!
@fiddlefolk The differences are indeed subtle- quite honestly, vintage 1073's vary from one to another, particularly those that have had work done by different techs over the years. Agree, that given the tonal proximity, the x73i is tough to argue with- we actually have another shootout coming (acoustic guitar) with the new Vintech 573 500-series module against a vintage Neve 1073. P12/x73i is a killer combo... please let us know if/how we can help and when you are ready for those x73's!
@headbagger63
They sound different than the 1073, and are generally considered cleaner (less colored), although because the 1081 in particular has a more powerful EQ section, it is sometimes used across a mix, less as much recording/tracking
There was a low output in one of the shots, that unit wasn't involved in the test. The gain scaling methodology is outlined in the video which should give you the answer to your question... but let me break this response into a couple of parts so I can go a little deeper into some Neve-esque gain scaling theory for you.
@dresdenandjohnston No problem, we will send them along. As far as "custom transformers" that sounds like some propoganda. All of the boutique audio manufacturers use custom-wound transformers. The original Neve company hadn't made transformers for many, many years so if there was some secret it would have likely been lost over the decades. Age can certainly have a very subtle effect on even solid state devices over time, which is why we shot out an original, not a reissue on this video.