I am a 65 year old christian. I have been agnostic most of my life and has been converted to Christianity by atheists. Never met ONE atheist who was happy, non stop ridiculing and sure of their disbelief of any form of anything. Simply put I choose to listen to and be around kind, happy people who rarely bother anyone with their love, faith and beliefs. I wish all of you happiness and joy.
Roy: It took me longer than perhaps it should have to come to Christianity because I had met very few Christians throughout my life up to that point who were living loving and giving lives I wanted to emulate. Since coming to Christ at least thirteen years ago, however, I have met many amazing followers of Jesus. I even basically had a car donated to me not long ago. Even if I had not found a decent fellowship, I would still be a Christian, because it is about Jesus and His doctrine of ultimate Love and sacrifice, not the abuses and hypocrisy put forth by His very imperfect people--including myself. Bless you in your continued journey with the Savior.
@@megalopolis2015 I agree with 90 percent of what you said, however, I think a "creator god" who is good is contradicted by evil "acts of god" (hurricanes, fatal illness, birth defects etc.) I believe in a God who is "only" spirit but what a spirit!
@@johnstewart7025 He is quite a Spirit, indeed. It took me a few years to come around to accepting God as the Trinity, the reasons I did being too numerous to get into much, save multiple sources of evidence and personal experience. 1. Our free will to be as gods is the source of evil in the world AKA the Fall, combined with the enemy once known as Lucifer. 2. We cannot save ourselves from ourselves. 3. A Man without sin had to live a perfect life, die a perfect death, and rise again as our Savior. 4. Jesus had all of those attributes, claimed to be God, and was seen by many people after the crucifixion; it was written hundreds of years beforehand what He would do. 5. In the Book of Genesis, it was written "...WE created them". 6. Jesus said He was sending a Helper, referring to the Holy Spirit.7. Saul's conversion to Paul after talking to Jesus.
Excellent lecture punctuated all throughout with fascinating insights. The more I hear Ross Douthat speak the more affection I have for him as an intellectual, as well as a Catholic of some notoriety. Thank you to the Veritas Forum.
The truth is not the church where you worship. The Truth is the One we’re supposed to worship. I, for one, have enjoyed his conversations on the Veritas Forum with various intellectuals. Shalom😊
Why was this guy selected for this Veritas Forum? He does not seem to make any real case for the Christian faith. He seems to be calling people to religion.
Faith is a side show. What a great metaphor. That is exactly what it is; a bunch of miracles and promises that humans have fooled themselves into believing. Their need, desire and feelings of being special trick their own minds into believing the unbelievable. They believe that God gives purpose to life; that is a delusion as well.
Dean Brunson It appears that you didn't really pay attention to and reflect on what Douthat talked about. Religion, especially the Christian faith, is not just miracles and promises.
Dean: I can't speak for everyone, but there are things that have happened in my life that are difficult to explain, at best. Two family members experienced falling from high places and surviving with minimal injuries. One person I attend Bible study with gave me money he said God called him to give me; that very night, my car was towed, and the price to retrieve it was almost exactly the amount he gave. I was driving on an empty tank late at night on the highway. My debit card was frozen (that is one of many reasons to also carry emergency cash, but anyhew), so I had no way of refilling the tank. I was praying for many miles, and had my daughter in the car. I saw a flashlight or flare on the side of the road, so I stopped, pulled over, and cautiously approached the stranded people on foot. They needed a car jack and had everything else. I had the jack. When they asked what I needed in return, I simply said "a little money for gas", not mentioning any specific amount. They happened to provide exactly what I needed to get to my brother's, who, in turn, happened to have money (which he rarely had) in the exact amount I needed to get home--another state away. Not only did I make it home, but my daughter made it to her first day of school on time. People can get a superiority complex if they wish to feel they are in charge of their own destinies without God, but as for me, I will cling to the hope only Jesus Christ provides.
@@alexk48 Alex that comment was 6 years ago. I now understand that heaven doesn't exist so all supernatural beliefs are just dreams founded on superstition. GROG.
What's the deal with God having a son? For me, it's more evidence that Christianity has taken parts of other ancient cultures where Gods have offspring. You only have to look at Greek, Roman, and Egyptian religions where their Gods had sons and daughters. It begs the question who is Jesus's heavenly mother?.. or did Jesus only come about via the immaculate conception?
Do remember that Christians believe Jesus is both the Son of God and God himself. He is fully human and fully divine. not a pagan demi-God. not semi divine like Hercules but fully divine, eternal and all present. and the immaculate conception is about Mary being conceived without original sin not the Virgin birth of our Lord.
blablabubles Yes indeed, the father, the son and the Holy ghost, quite a threesome!, all separate, yet the same.It's very difficult to get one's head around that. So when Jesus is dying on the cross and he utters those words, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do", he was just talking to himself. He sacrificed himself to himself.. then he died and went to heaven, after he came back to life after 3 days. The dictionary definition of a sacrifice is to give up something of value to you, not to be returned. How is it a sacrifice if Jesus ends up in heaven?.. now if he ended up in eternal Hell, I would agree, that indeed would be a mighty sacrifice, albeit a sick insane sacrifice, for how could Jesus,God, the Holy spirit end up in eternal hell?.. that really would be a paradox. And yet, for my unbelief, I'm told by many Christians that I will suffer eternal damnation in hell. Yet, somebody like Jeffrey Dahmer, genuinely accepts Jesus as his Lord and savior, he gets eternal heaven. Now I'm not saying Jeffrey Dahmer deserves eternal punishment instead of me, I don't think *any* sentient being deserves such a sentence, let the man die and be gone with him. I believe my morals ( and yours) are far superior than Gods. I don't know of *any* civilization on the planet that has a justice system whereby people are made to suffer without end without any sleep or rest. Even the Nazi's allowed their prisoners to sleep at night.
***** Hmmm, not sure if I understand your logic George, why can't something be easily explainable, I live a few miles from the ancient Stonehenge monolith circles in Wiltshire England. It was built about 5000 years ago by people who worshipped the sun, in a way, that seems a far more rational and logical reason to worship a visible ball of light in the sky that they could actually see, .. it gave them warmth, it grew their crops, it gave them life, they even worked out it's trajectory in the sky during the seasons and it's summer and winter solstice. For them, it was fully explainable in both it's simplicity and it's complexity ( just as today we have a limited knowledge of our universe and it's complexity),.. I can totally understand why they believed in it. With respect, your God is invisible and seems to have been built on the old Jewish God Yahweh who was also invisible. The whole Jesus story makes no sense to me. What happened to the millions upon millions of people who lived and died *before* Jesus's so called sacrifice for us?, were they offered salvation? And what about the millions upon millions of people who lived and died after Jesus who lived in other continents who knew absolutely nothing about Jesus's sacrifice for all mankind, countless generations would know nothing about him for hundreds upon hundreds of years. I wouldn't say Hitler got away with his crimes, he died like a rat in a sewer, like you say, he blew his brains out. But lets consider this, the absurdity of Christianity means that if he had repented and *genuinely* accepted Christ into his heart, Christian doctrine tells us all those who accept Christ receive redemption and salvation, so he would go to heaven. Whereas a non believer such as myself would go to hell. As I said George, my morals ( and yours) are far superior to Gods. No society I know of would allow people to suffer for eternity. I would hate to think of even somebody like Hitler suffering for infinity. Think about this George, lets suppose for every person who died in WWII, Hitler is given one million years suffering. Even when you add up that number going into billions and billions, .. it's a mere drop in the ocean compared to eternity. It's a sick thought. When he blew his brains out, let that be the end of him. Time for humanity to move on.
In Christ Hi In Christ, well, you are free to believe that if you wish, I choose not to, .. not out of any defiance of God and a wish to sin, as many Christians have told me, but because I don't believe the stories in both the Old and New Testaments.
I am a 65 year old christian. I have been agnostic most of my life and has been converted to Christianity by atheists. Never met ONE atheist who was happy, non stop ridiculing and sure of their disbelief of any form of anything. Simply put I choose to listen to and be around kind, happy people who rarely bother anyone with their love, faith and beliefs. I wish all of you happiness and joy.
Roy: It took me longer than perhaps it should have to come to Christianity because I had met very few Christians throughout my life up to that point who were living loving and giving lives I wanted to emulate. Since coming to Christ at least thirteen years ago, however, I have met many amazing followers of Jesus. I even basically had a car donated to me not long ago. Even if I had not found a decent fellowship, I would still be a Christian, because it is about Jesus and His doctrine of ultimate Love and sacrifice, not the abuses and hypocrisy put forth by His very imperfect people--including myself. Bless you in your continued journey with the Savior.
@@megalopolis2015 I agree with 90 percent of what you said, however, I think a "creator god" who is good is contradicted by evil "acts of god" (hurricanes, fatal illness, birth defects etc.) I believe in a God who is "only" spirit but what a spirit!
@@johnstewart7025 He is quite a Spirit, indeed. It took me a few years to come around to accepting God as the Trinity, the reasons I did being too numerous to get into much, save multiple sources of evidence and personal experience. 1. Our free will to be as gods is the source of evil in the world AKA the Fall, combined with the enemy once known as Lucifer. 2. We cannot save ourselves from ourselves. 3. A Man without sin had to live a perfect life, die a perfect death, and rise again as our Savior. 4. Jesus had all of those attributes, claimed to be God, and was seen by many people after the crucifixion; it was written hundreds of years beforehand what He would do. 5. In the Book of Genesis, it was written "...WE created them". 6. Jesus said He was sending a Helper, referring to the Holy Spirit.7. Saul's conversion to Paul after talking to Jesus.
Excellent lecture punctuated all throughout with fascinating insights. The more I hear Ross Douthat speak the more affection I have for him as an intellectual, as well as a Catholic of some notoriety. Thank you to the Veritas Forum.
The truth is not the church where you worship. The Truth is the One we’re supposed to worship. I, for one, have enjoyed his conversations on the Veritas Forum with various intellectuals. Shalom😊
Prosperity gospel: bad things happen to bad people.
I don't know if he is deliberately miss understanding Osteen or not but it is a gross mischaracterisoing that can only be from a full stomach
Why was this guy selected for this Veritas Forum? He does not seem to make any real case for the Christian faith. He seems to be calling people to religion.
"once a near universal faith" sorry what!?
Delusion?
Faith is a side show. What a great metaphor. That is exactly what it is; a bunch of miracles and promises that humans have fooled themselves into believing. Their need, desire and feelings of being special trick their own minds into believing the unbelievable. They believe that God gives purpose to life; that is a delusion as well.
Nice just-so story.
Dean Brunson It appears that you didn't really pay attention to and reflect on what Douthat talked about. Religion, especially the Christian faith, is not just miracles and promises.
Dean: I can't speak for everyone, but there are things that have happened in my life that are difficult to explain, at best. Two family members experienced falling from high places and surviving with minimal injuries. One person I attend Bible study with gave me money he said God called him to give me; that very night, my car was towed, and the price to retrieve it was almost exactly the amount he gave. I was driving on an empty tank late at night on the highway. My debit card was frozen (that is one of many reasons to also carry emergency cash, but anyhew), so I had no way of refilling the tank. I was praying for many miles, and had my daughter in the car. I saw a flashlight or flare on the side of the road, so I stopped, pulled over, and cautiously approached the stranded people on foot. They needed a car jack and had everything else. I had the jack. When they asked what I needed in return, I simply said "a little money for gas", not mentioning any specific amount. They happened to provide exactly what I needed to get to my brother's, who, in turn, happened to have money (which he rarely had) in the exact amount I needed to get home--another state away. Not only did I make it home, but my daughter made it to her first day of school on time. People can get a superiority complex if they wish to feel they are in charge of their own destinies without God, but as for me, I will cling to the hope only Jesus Christ provides.
Dean, you haven't fooled yourself? You seem quite adamant in your belief in yourself, to the point of proselytizing really.
@@alexk48 Alex that comment was 6 years ago. I now understand that heaven doesn't exist so all supernatural beliefs are just dreams founded on superstition. GROG.
Eleves are just as likely as GOD
What's the deal with God having a son? For me, it's more evidence that Christianity has taken parts of other ancient cultures where Gods have offspring. You only have to look at Greek, Roman, and Egyptian religions where their Gods had sons and daughters. It begs the question who is Jesus's heavenly mother?.. or did Jesus only come about via the immaculate conception?
Do remember that Christians believe Jesus is both the Son of God and God himself.
He is fully human and fully divine.
not a pagan demi-God. not semi divine like Hercules but fully divine, eternal and all present.
and the immaculate conception is about Mary being conceived without original sin not the Virgin birth of our Lord.
blablabubles Yes indeed, the father, the son and the Holy ghost, quite a threesome!, all separate, yet the same.It's very difficult to get one's head around that. So when Jesus is dying on the cross and he utters those words, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do", he was just talking to himself. He sacrificed himself to himself.. then he died and went to heaven, after he came back to life after 3 days. The dictionary definition of a sacrifice is to give up something of value to you, not to be returned. How is it a sacrifice if Jesus ends up in heaven?.. now if he ended up in eternal Hell, I would agree, that indeed would be a mighty sacrifice, albeit a sick insane sacrifice, for how could Jesus,God, the Holy spirit end up in eternal hell?.. that really would be a paradox.
And yet, for my unbelief, I'm told by many Christians that I will suffer eternal damnation in hell. Yet, somebody like Jeffrey Dahmer, genuinely accepts Jesus as his Lord and savior, he gets eternal heaven.
Now I'm not saying Jeffrey Dahmer deserves eternal punishment instead of me, I don't think *any* sentient being deserves such a sentence, let the man die and be gone with him. I believe my morals ( and yours) are far superior than Gods. I don't know of *any* civilization on the planet that has a justice system whereby people are made to suffer without end without any sleep or rest. Even the Nazi's allowed their prisoners to sleep at night.
***** Hmmm, not sure if I understand your logic George, why can't something be easily explainable, I live a few miles from the ancient Stonehenge monolith circles in Wiltshire England. It was built about 5000 years ago by people who worshipped the sun, in a way, that seems a far more rational and logical reason to worship a visible ball of light in the sky that they could actually see, .. it gave them warmth, it grew their crops, it gave them life, they even worked out it's trajectory in the sky during the seasons and it's summer and winter solstice. For them, it was fully explainable in both it's simplicity and it's complexity ( just as today we have a limited knowledge of our universe and it's complexity),.. I can totally understand why they believed in it.
With respect, your God is invisible and seems to have been built on the old Jewish God Yahweh who was also invisible. The whole Jesus story makes no sense to me. What happened to the millions upon millions of people who lived and died *before* Jesus's so called sacrifice for us?, were they offered salvation? And what about the millions upon millions of people who lived and died after Jesus who lived in other continents who knew absolutely nothing about Jesus's sacrifice for all mankind, countless generations would know nothing about him for hundreds upon hundreds of years.
I wouldn't say Hitler got away with his crimes, he died like a rat in a sewer, like you say, he blew his brains out. But lets consider this, the absurdity of Christianity means that if he had repented and *genuinely* accepted Christ into his heart, Christian doctrine tells us all those who accept Christ receive redemption and salvation, so he would go to heaven. Whereas a non believer such as myself would go to hell.
As I said George, my morals ( and yours) are far superior to Gods. No society I know of would allow people to suffer for eternity. I would hate to think of even somebody like Hitler suffering for infinity. Think about this George, lets suppose for every person who died in WWII, Hitler is given one million years suffering. Even when you add up that number going into billions and billions, .. it's a mere drop in the ocean compared to eternity. It's a sick thought. When he blew his brains out, let that be the end of him. Time for humanity to move on.
In Christ Hi In Christ, well, you are free to believe that if you wish, I choose not to, .. not out of any defiance of God and a wish to sin, as many Christians have told me, but because I don't believe the stories in both the Old and New Testaments.
bonnie43uk to disbelieve is to defy God, for God wishes that you believe.