Awesome video! I've been working with the D850 now for some 13 months myself, and I would second every word you said. This is certainly the most versatile camera I ever owned.
The only way any camera is going to give good results is if you shoot, shoot, shoot. It's not the price! Camera's are like guns, practice and patience produce the best results. Before you buy any camera think about what you want to do with it and what you want it to do, then research out the camera that gives you what your looking for. If you will do this, then you won't worry too much about the expense because you will be very happy with your purchase. Good photo's are made in the camera not on a computer. If your sensor didn't capture it, no computer is going to be able to fix what you missed.
I have just bought one and is to be delivered tomorrow after trading in my D810, which I loved. Great video and you have really made me feel that I have to get out there as soon as possible and doing more landscape photography.
I have it, and although I'm still getting the hang of this BEAST (talk about a Pro body), I'm loving it! I don't see it going obsolete (for stills) for another 3-5 years. It let's me concentrate on buying glass while I wait for its successor!
I have been using the D850 in combination with the Nikkor 200-500 mm for bird photography for a year now and it is a beast! You cannot go wrong with this combo for still bird or wildlife photography.
You always deliver the highest grade videos. Thank you for the advice and just the plain entertainment. I always learn so much from your videos to improve my own wildlife and nature photography. You are definitely one, if not my best wildlife photographer on UA-cam. You think like I do and do what I do or well would like to do. I also like Mortan Hiler a lot. He makes his videos in such wild nature and I like that isolation, if I were him. But he is also a great photographer.
The D500 is an exceptional camera and my main backup body?primary for certain situations - the AF coverage is really nice and the 10FPS can be super handy sometime, Add some good glass and well its a highly capable camera thats near perfect for most wildlife shooters! Thanks for watching, Tom
Tom Mason Hello Tom, have you ever had a problem with the D8 50 buffer filling up too quickly as compared to the D 500 , ( Including whilst using an xqd card) ? If so has it adversely affected any shooting sequences that you have made.? For instance with birds in flight where you may wish to get a long sequence of the bird coming towards you et cetera you often find that you have exceeded your buffer capability just when the best view of the bird is in the viewfinder?
I must admit that I have watched this a couple of times now, I have been tossing up between a used D4s and a used D850. I think that the decisions now been made. The D850 will be taking up realestate in my camera bag. Thanks again Tom.
I will be getting my new Nikon D850 soon! :) I been shooting with a Nikon D800 and I started with a Nikon D90 a while ago, so I am so excited to get it and go to test it into the forest. Nice video! Pura Vida and Greetings from Costa Rica.
I shall, many more on route and in the pipeline, thanks for watching them all and commenting! Cheers, Tom
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I´m currently using the Fujifilm X-H1 but I´m thinking about switching to the D850. I shoot a lot in auto ISO, how important is an EVF when your shooting in auto ISO... The camera will hopefully give you the correct exposure in this mode. The EVF on the X-H1 is very good but still there is some lag when shooting fast moving objects like surfers and birds etc... Never tried an OVF, but some how I think it would suit my style of shooting better. Tanks for great videos and have a nice day.
For myself viewfinder Lag is really one of the biggest problems when it comes to shooting fast action wildlife and its why the D850 and D500 are still my mainstays in terms of cameras for wildlife - Ill probably also get another DSLR in the future as well. The D850 is superb in the way if focuses, locks on and tracks subjects. OVF's will take getting used to if you've only had EVF, but remember that of course you won't see the changing exposure, easy with Auto ISO as you don't need to worry as much, however the learning curve will still be there. The thing is for the problem your having/Lag tracking etc, the D850/D500/D5 with OVFs and there simply class leading AF will certainly be a major help. I do very much love those cameras.
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@@TomMasonPhoto Thank you the reply, both systems has it's pros and cons. I use auto iso because of the constantly changing light when I'm shooting wildlife and surfing by the sea. Even with the evf it's hard too tell if the exposure is right sometimes. Maybe I'll keep my Fuji and use both systems, but for fast action ovf seems too be the best option.
I must admit I haven't really compared but now you say it yes it is slightly louder. I mean I haven't had an issues frightening anything off, but certainly worth keeping in mind! Cheers, Tom
That it is, and the D810 as well. However, like Tom mentions, it has been a rare occasion when the sound of the shutter has caught the attention of any wildlife I've captured. If it does present a problem for you, then you might try either of the silent shutter modes (which are completely silent). The downside of those is the total blackout you experience while depressing the shutter button.
Hi Tom I own a d7500 and really push it to its limits getting amazing images but I’ve seen the images and I drool I shoot landscapes ...seascapes ....some family portrait stuff ...I use tripod in low light I’m not a professional photographer...maybe I don’t need it but I work hard and will use it Should I sell my Nikon d7500 to get extra lenses
I also do wildlife photograph with the sweet d850 and d500 and if you upgrade to the nikon en el 18c battery the battery life lasts for days and days, so well worth the extra costs not always having to check you battery life, and yes the d850 is the best dslr on the market and will never be beaten
Sounds good. I shoot 4k sometimes with my D500 and added a grip to help with the battery life on it. Now I'm thinking about buying a D850 to replace my aging D800. I don't think the fps will be an issue but I'm thinking about going with the grip anyways to help with battery life. Thanks.
Is the D850 far superior to your D500? For wildlife photography is the 850 worth an extra 1400 dollars? I'm kicking around getting one of them to compliment my awesome D750.
I sold a D600, D750, and a D500 and purchased a used D850 and battery grip. Best decision ever! One camera that does everything I want. The battery grip gives me 9fps which is fine for BIF. The higher resolution gives me beautiful detail. For me this is the best DSLR I have ever used.
Great video Tom, I wonder if you still have your 300f2.8 and how does that perform with the d850, I imagine image quality would be pretty amazing! Cheers and all the best for xmas, wish you all the best too for 2019.
The D850 and the 300 2.8 together is simply awesome. The AF speed and consistency is better than ever and the images that come out of it are just perfection. Very happy with the combination together.
I'm looking for a camera to compliment my D750 (which I love). The 750 produces great files but I'm looking into a more dedicated camera for wildlife. For those who have the 500 and 850, is the 850 worth twice the cost of the 500? I know there is noise to deal with from the crop sensor 500 but is it that much of a decrease to warrant an extra 1400?
Right now with the price drop of the D850 it’s so worth it. You’ll need to get the D5 batteries to get the 9FPs (if you need that - I’d highly advise it) that adds some cost but the D850 is the all round best camera I’ve used for wildlife photography! Files are gorgeous, DR and ISO are great, size for cropping and the AF and exposure is always bang on. Personally I’d say it’s well worth the extra!
It does but TBH I very rarely use face detection for stills, in Video mode it isn't a great AF performer. The eye AF I know is something lots of people rave about!
Hi Tom, really helpful video! I have a Nikon D5100- it's served me really well over the years but I'd like a faster camera body for focusing on birds- also I'm beginning to notice that the auto-focus is quite slow. I'd be interested to know which Nikon camera body you would recommend? The D850 sounds incredible, but are there more affordable Nikon bodies you'd recommend? An advice would be great, thanks!
Cheers Sarah, Glad you enjoyed the video. The D850 is certainly an incredible camera but in the £3k-4k bracket its not cheap! Depending on your budget there are a number of good options both new and secondhand. First you'll have to choose if you want to go FX or DX..FX upgrade will require additional spend on lenses to get the best of the sensor and so that might be a consideration if you already have DX kit. >£500 - Here I would look for a USED Nikon D3 or D700. Both FX bodies, although older now, they still have excellent AF, good ISO performance to 3200 and PRO build quality. You'll need a few FX lenses to make the most of them like the 300 F4 AFS (£500) a great place to start + a wider 18-35 (the new one is awesome £500) Staying DX so you don't have to trade up the lenses look for the D7200 - a great all round body, semi pro build, better handling that the D5100 and performance + AF. £500-1000 FX - look for a used D750, great all round camera with excellent AF and ISO performance. Nice layout and design, also lighter weight than the heavier dude cameras. DX - a New D7500 however id skip for the option below. £1000-1500 A great allrounder is a USED Nikon D500 - DX camera again however top class performance in terms of AF and ISO, speed and performance. Build is amazing, handling truly fantastic and the viewfinder is simply wonderful. I own one. FX - the Nikon D810 - used price around £1300 for a good one - can be found cheaper, but is the best allrounder in terms of cost price and performance. In had one of these pre the D850 and loved it. 36mp FX sensor, great ISO and AF, handling wonderful, lovely viewfinder. The AF is a little older than the D500 however the sensor and resolution makes up for it in my mind. A true great second to the D850 at less that 1/3 £. Hope that helps, let me know if you need any more info! Cheers, Tom
I've been watching review after review about this camera, and so far it seems like the perfect camera to upgrade to, however, seeing as it's a at least a year old now, are there better cameras out there now? I mainly do nature and macro photography.
It's a hard one because in reality a better model could come out, however how much will is surpass the D850 for practical use, not much ( in regards to stills) I certainly don't need to upgrade the D850 as my flagship anytime soon, Ill add a Z6 for video and then I really don't need anything more. Higher res versions will come, but right now 45MP is huge for the clients and places I supply images too + large prints, so I don't see a need for an upgrade. I doubt Nikon will make a D860/D900 in 2019 so in reality its still a great investment, especially with the offers on at the moment with £450 in cashback etc. I can't see me needing to upgrade for a good 2/3 years now. Cheers, Tom
@@TomMasonPhoto Yea, it really does seem like an incredible camera. I've been using my only DSLR for about 7 years, and I'm still impressed with the amount of detail I can get in some shots (18MP), so 45MP is just mind boggling. I've been saving for a few months specifically for the D850 and a few lenses, and am now ready to get it, I just want to make sure that I don't feel like I missed out on a possibly better option after getting it. Thanks for the info, it definitely seems like a great investment.
@@Xiox321 Its a hard one buying new gear especially a while into the cycle, however the thing is the D850 is an incredibly capable camera that I cant seen any major flaws with that I need solved. Yes new cameras come out and they will, but getting one that will last for many years as the D850 will and then going out and shooting is far better than constantly thinking of what could happen. I know Nikon will make some excellent mirrorless cameras in the next few years and I'd think they might replace my D850 eventually, but right now, I'm picking it up and shooting images. When I feel a new options truly surpasses it enough I might look for a new camera, however that won't be at least until 2020 I would have though. A z6 will be purchased for video and being a lightweight backup/hiking camera, but the D850 will be primary for a long time to come!
I own the D 810 & I will stay with Nikon. For me ( wildlife, landscape, macro ) the D850 & for u also first last, I would consider the medium format Fuji cameras for what you shoot. For just 1 do it all camera , the D850 is it !
Really good information about the d850. thank you so much for the review. I would like to know if is it posible to use a tamron 150-600mmg2 with d850 and how good is the imagen quality. Thanks for your answer.
Great vidd! would love a video about the best budget options for wildlife photography, although I know that «budget» is kind of relative, because telephoto lenses are always quite expensive
I am a professional wildlife photographer from Costa Rica willing to test it on the fields in mostly extreme rainy conditions, bright sun light and off course low light. According to your video this camera shall be a better buy than D5? Correct?
It depends what you’re after - for myself I work all over the place in varied conditions with my key requirement the image quality and love the larger file size. The weatherproofing is excellent and worked will in the jungle however for ultra long term applications / if you prioritise ISO over megapixels and want the best weatherproofing possible the D5 might be a better fit for you. However that’s down to your personal and professional judgement, hope that helps, cheers, Tom
Personally for a beginner I think the D850 is a demanding camera to start on that’s too expensive for those starting out as they won’t get the best out of it / have the experience to make the most of it, also you’d need the budget for the best glass otherwise you’ll just be limiting the camera. The d4 right now is a great price point £600/800 rather than £1800/2000 of the D850 that frees up a lot of extra ££ for good lenses
Hi Tom, so what is the performance with the D850 and a 300mm f2.8 with teleconverters ? im not sure if i should buy a 300mm with converters or a 500mm f4.
Personally I love it. I’ve used the 300 2.8 for years with the 1.4 Tc and the performance is excellent for wildlife - fast AF, great IQ etc. It’s also very handholdable that the 500/4 isn’t making it highly adaptable. With the D850 the flexibility has improved even more, the AF is better than ever with TCs and the sharpness and IQ is just stunning. I’m going to do a full review of the 300mm 2.8 in the first few weeks of Jan. I’ve used he 500/4 often as well however for me the 300 is far better for me, travel friendly, gorgeous IQ, handhold wise, and the 2.8 for low light. Hope that helps! Cheers, Tom
Tom Mason but I wonder if is still a great option for birding with a 2x teleconverter. A handholdable at 600mm at f2.8 lens would be great and you have options with teleconverters. Watts you think?
@@RobJorg 2.0 TC slows the AF down compared to the 1.4 thats hardly noticeable but I haven't done too much testing with the 2.0 and the 300mm since the D850 update because cropping with the high MP I feel leads to better IQ. Ill do more testing to be sure but Its an improvement over the 2.0 on any other camera I've used.
@@RobJorg I've been using the 300 f2.8 with the 1.7x with solid results. It It's f4.5, which still leaves plenty of light for fast focus. I pair it with the D500 to get the extra boost. Very hand holdable and the image quality is better than my 200-500 f5.6.
Sorry I didn’t make it clear in the vid! Indeed ISO 64 was introduced on the D810 /D850 style cameras (high MP performance bodies) and this is one of the flexibilities that was great contrasted with the D5/D500 that only base to ISO 100. One of the reasons the D5 was less appealing to me. The low ISO is often overlooked for wildlife shooters as an advantage. Cheers Tom
Very useful informative stuff Tom...at what sort of shutter speeds are you finding combo of 45mp and mirror slap making it tough to get sharp images? Several friends disappointed with having to crank iso right up due to having to say 1000th with a 300mm lens...Agree with you totally re the creative possibilities and brilliant AF etc in good light but in UK we are so often in poor conditions...I do a lot of Barn Owl photography and high iso/lowish shutter speeds meant I used my D4s over my D810 all the time even though I'd have loved the 36mp potential and I'm guessing D850 just can't be used handheld in low light with any consistency? or am I missing something?
TBH it depends on the situation, style of image etc. The old "rule of thumb" was at least your shutter speed, so 1/200th for 200mm etc, but I just double that basically. So a 1/600th for 300mm etc. I don't usually have to crank the ISO too high, often 800 or so is easily high enough, especially as often I work with shorter focal lengths and try to be in optimum conditions - but ISO 3200/6400look great anyway. The D850 can handle low light well, you just need to think about how noise looks good and get the exposure nailed. If you under expose too much and lift in post you'll see more noise. However in the most part, even working on some night stuff, it looks good. For barn owls etc, the D4s/D5 probably will be cleaner at the high ISO however when the light is right and those owls come out as the perfect time...I'd rather have a shot on the D850 for printing etc, so I suppose it exercises patience even more, when everything comes together the D850 will give the best performance, however if you need to make the most of a situation, a D5 or camera with lower MP can help. Cheers, Tom
Cheers Tom...it's that age old conundrum that there's no perfect option ! We are now just spoilt when compared with D3/D300 days !! For now I suspect I'll stick with D4s/D810 combo I've got as each got real merits. Hope channel continues to grow...(thinking about resurrecting mine this winter but they are time consuming !!
@@nigelmorley8092 Cheers Dude, yeah the D810 and D4s are a pretty darn decent combo! The funny thing is the D3 is still and excellent camera and for £500 odd now Used I think they make an excellent first camera for wildlife photographers, Super fast, great AF and ISO performance, yes newer cameras have better DR and MP but the D3 is one hell of a work horse! Cheers Dude
Although it is a factor, I am not sure its mirror slap that is the main reason for cranking the shutter speed up Nigel. It's more a result of the D850's sensor's pixel density/size which show any subject movement and/or poor technique. Tom is spot on in that there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to shutter speed v focal length, the stability of the support used and the movement of the subject are also factors. A shutter speed of 2 or even 3 times the focal length is a safe bet when using the D850 but I have used it at much lower shutter speeds. With the D850 there are a couple of other tricks you can use to mitigate this issue. One is to shoot in live view, this is particularly useful for landscapes but I have also used it for fairly stationery wildlife when using a 600mm with 2x teleconference locked down on a heavy tripod with a cable release. Another trick is to down-size the D850 images, eg from 46mp to 20mp. Downsizing may seem counter intuitive but what it effectively does is to reduce noise and to increase image sharpness, this roughly equates to noise levels you would obtain from using the same iso with a D5.
Thanks Andrew...I'm well aware of the high pixel count creating a need for critically good technique and equally the potential solution of downsizing because these two are the exact same issues with the D4s vs D810...The D810 in low light at high iso's on moving subjects is pretty poor but of course it's not really designed for that. Obviously for all my landscape work I use live view (so mirror up) and the self timer/cable release and always have. . But that's not my point. On majority of wildlife shoots, using live view isn't practical and could certainly result in missed shots and also whilst downsizing to 20mp is a solution it totally mitigates a key point for buyers of the D850. On all the D800 series mirror slap has been an issue and definitely contributes to disappointing images in real world situations. A flying Barn Owl/running Fox etc at dusk in the UK with iso6400 at f/4 struggling to get 1/1000th is a real world situation where you just follow/focus and fire and I know of several people who've been disappointed as unsurprisingly D850 struggles to process the 45mp's in these situations ...I've done several in-the-field comparisons with D810 with a 300mm cropped down to DX (so 450mm effective at 24 mp) vs D4 and 500mm in tricky light and the D4 images are way more usable with much higher rate of keepers (obv AF system/fps can effect that but I made tests similar) ... I think my point is that D850 is brilliant for creative wildlife stuff (and no brainer for landscapes though £2k more than a secondhand D810 is questionable if just for landscapes) within it's limitations especially when in decent light but it's no panacea ... of course there is ZERO incentive for any maker to produce the "does everything well" camera !! :-) .
TBH it depends on the sport and how you shoot. Fast action, where you're taking many thousands of images in a day.. needing the ultimate buffer etc, the D5 would be better. Especially if you're shooting under artificial light etc in sports halls or pitches. However if you do setup stuff, portraits of athletes as well as action the D850 might give you more options, and especially if crop factor is a consideration the D850 will offer more scope for cropping in on the action etc.
hey Tom just wanted to say thank you so much for making your videos, its really helped me understand different aspects of wildlife photography and inspired me to start documenting and teaching on you tube next year. would love to be able o talk on Instagram some time
No worries dude! Yeah drop me a message, I can be awful at replying but ill try my best! So nice to hear you've found the content helpful and useful. Lots more on route in 2019, loads of ideas and plans in place to give everyone more info and help! Cheers, Tom
@@TomMasonPhoto cant wait, really hard to find photographers who actually love what they do and are able to reciprocate their knowledge these days. awesome ill send u a message (Motswiri_Photos)
Motswiri Photos Tom was one of the first photographers I found when exploring wildlife photography. Inspires me to push and try new ideas. :) Thanks Tom
The rated specs maybe, but in use the D850 battery is drained faster. This isn’t a spec sheet review ,it’s from using the two cameras in the field for over a year / two years with the D810. Cheers, Tom
I'll take you word for it since I didn't use the D810. I moved from D700 to D850 and for me it's a huge leap. Most people are saying D850 has a great batter life but it probably also depends on the shooting style.
Personally I’ve always only used pro Nikon glass, the 24/70 2.8 G is excellent, although I have the older version without VR, used around the world, works like w champ. The new one I know from friends is exceptional however the price is of course quite significant. I don’t know about the Tamron lenses really as I’ve only used Nikon for the past 5 years or more
I am indeed. No banding, exceptional build and ergonomics, XQD, gorgeous optical viewfinder, huge lens selection of native optics and IQ that outperforms pretty much every other FX cam on the market. 20fps is needed for those who often can’t pick the decisive moment to hit the shutter.
The only camera I can think of having that speed would be the Sony A9, sure it has good autofocus, and it is fast. but it is not rugged enough for this kind of work, the body is too small and fiddly, and if you need fill flash, that actually is quite useful for birds that doesn't seam to care much, you only get 5 frames/second a good flash can do much better than that. Besides its only 24 Megapixel and I would say croppability and detail is far more important than that many frames/s. Sony also lacks lenses like 600/4 that is quite popular among wildlife photographers. If I could get something better than D850 I would be much more interested to see a camera with 100 Megapixel 16 bit RAW and 10 fps than 24 Megapixel 12 bit RAWs at 20 fps. Frame rate is not everything, after all we get quite a few wildlife shots at 4 or 5 fps back in the film days.
Ive ordered my Z6 after testing mainly with the specific use of video in mind, my D850 and D500 will be my go to for most of my work. Although looking at the images from the Z6 I’m sure I’ll use it a lot too! What features would you like to see added? I think as a first gem they are excellent
I’ve recently subscribed to your channel and I’m glad I did so. But I have one ☝️ constructive criticism; YOU TALK TOO DAM FAST !!!! Sometimes I have too rewind the video two and three times to catch and understand what your saying. Please slow down with your speech. Thank You
I currently have a D500 & am thinking about upgrading to the D850 & would love to hear your thoughts. I shoot mainly wildlife & tend to crop my images on the odd occasion to get a frame filler. The lenses I currently have are the; Nikon 70-200 f/2.8E, Nikon 500-200 f/5.6 but hope to take the plunge next year & get a 600f/4E super telephoto. My only reservations are the file sizes of the D850? What size XQD card do you use in a D850? I currently use a 32gb & that sees me through the day with the D500.
I must admit since having the D850 I’ve hardly picked up my D500. The look of the FX files I prefer and the detail is amazing. The viewfinder AF coverage is better on the D500 however is of course the same if you use DX crop on the D850 - so it comes down to a) how / what you shoot, and b) cost. If you shoot small birds mainly and would crop often you’d see little difference, if you shoot landscape, macro, details as well as wildlife in the environment shots it’s a great upgrade. Cost wise if you have all the FX lenses and the costs isn’t too much then I’d say it’s a wonderful step up, however if not the D500 is a fabulous camera!
Get some macro tubes, reverse ring and aperture ring, $20 all together. Youre going to need a speed light/difusser also, even in full sun. Its all manual, but its probably the cheapest and best way to start. My advice on a macro lens,Tokina 100mm f2.8 hands down.
Personally I have the 105mm 2.8 VR you can pick them up used for £400 odd now, however a cheaper option is a 60mm that you can find for £200 wish. The probable with the 60mm is shorter working distance however they do offer a more 3D look. I rarely shoot as much macro as others but the 105 is excellent in use. Cheers, Tom
Thanks Tom for one more terrific vid. Will surely keep referring back to this vid to reinforce my thoughts for buying D850 :-)
Awesome video! I've been working with the D850 now for some 13 months myself, and I would second every word you said. This is certainly the most versatile camera I ever owned.
The only way any camera is going to give good results is if you shoot, shoot, shoot. It's not the price! Camera's are like guns, practice and patience produce the best results. Before you buy any camera think about what you want to do with it and what you want it to do, then research out the camera that gives you what your looking for. If you will do this, then you won't worry too much about the expense because you will be very happy with your purchase. Good photo's are made in the camera not on a computer. If your sensor didn't capture it, no computer is going to be able to fix what you missed.
Love the effort you put into this review! Quality content!
I have just bought one and is to be delivered tomorrow after trading in my D810, which I loved. Great video and you have really made me feel that I have to get out there as soon as possible and doing more landscape photography.
I have it, and although I'm still getting the hang of this BEAST (talk about a Pro body), I'm loving it! I don't see it going obsolete (for stills) for another 3-5 years. It let's me concentrate on buying glass while I wait for its successor!
I have been using the D850 in combination with the Nikkor 200-500 mm for bird photography for a year now and it is a beast! You cannot go wrong with this combo for still bird or wildlife photography.
Yes its still one of the greatest cameras ever made and a truly excellent lens for the price!
You always deliver the highest grade videos. Thank you for the advice and just the plain entertainment. I always learn so much from your videos to improve my own wildlife and nature photography. You are definitely one, if not my best wildlife photographer on UA-cam. You think like I do and do what I do or well would like to do. I also like Mortan Hiler a lot. He makes his videos in such wild nature and I like that isolation, if I were him. But he is also a great photographer.
Thank you very much, really appreciate your kind words! I’ll do my best to keep the content coming and sharing my thoughts and advice!
D500 owner here for the exact reasons you mentioned. I put the money in lenses as oppossed to just a body and I'm pretty happy.
The D500 is an exceptional camera and my main backup body?primary for certain situations - the AF coverage is really nice and the 10FPS can be super handy sometime, Add some good glass and well its a highly capable camera thats near perfect for most wildlife shooters! Thanks for watching, Tom
Tom Mason Hello Tom, have you ever had a problem with the D8 50 buffer filling up too quickly as compared to the D 500 , ( Including whilst using an xqd card) ? If so has it adversely affected any shooting sequences that you have made.? For instance with birds in flight where you may wish to get a long sequence of the bird coming towards you et cetera you often find that you have exceeded your buffer capability just when the best view of the bird is in the viewfinder?
I must admit that I have watched this a couple of times now, I have been tossing up between a used D4s and a used D850. I think that the decisions now been made. The D850 will be taking up realestate in my camera bag.
Thanks again Tom.
I will be getting my new Nikon D850 soon! :) I been shooting with a Nikon D800 and I started with a Nikon D90 a while ago, so I am so excited to get it and go to test it into the forest. Nice video! Pura Vida and Greetings from Costa Rica.
Hi Tom, thanks for another great video, and for so much entertainment over the last year or so, keep it coming mate PLEASE.
I shall, many more on route and in the pipeline, thanks for watching them all and commenting! Cheers, Tom
I´m currently using the Fujifilm X-H1 but I´m thinking about switching to the D850. I shoot a lot in auto ISO, how important is an EVF when your shooting in auto ISO... The camera will hopefully give you the correct exposure in this mode. The EVF on the X-H1 is very good but still there is some lag when shooting fast moving objects like surfers and birds etc... Never tried an OVF, but some how I think it would suit my style of shooting better. Tanks for great videos and have a nice day.
For myself viewfinder Lag is really one of the biggest problems when it comes to shooting fast action wildlife and its why the D850 and D500 are still my mainstays in terms of cameras for wildlife - Ill probably also get another DSLR in the future as well. The D850 is superb in the way if focuses, locks on and tracks subjects. OVF's will take getting used to if you've only had EVF, but remember that of course you won't see the changing exposure, easy with Auto ISO as you don't need to worry as much, however the learning curve will still be there. The thing is for the problem your having/Lag tracking etc, the D850/D500/D5 with OVFs and there simply class leading AF will certainly be a major help. I do very much love those cameras.
@@TomMasonPhoto Thank you the reply, both systems has it's pros and cons. I use auto iso because of the constantly changing light when I'm shooting wildlife and surfing by the sea. Even with the evf it's hard too tell if the exposure is right sometimes. Maybe I'll keep my Fuji and use both systems, but for fast action ovf seems too be the best option.
One other downside is that is loud compared to the D500. Great video Tom!
I must admit I haven't really compared but now you say it yes it is slightly louder. I mean I haven't had an issues frightening anything off, but certainly worth keeping in mind! Cheers, Tom
That it is, and the D810 as well. However, like Tom mentions, it has been a rare occasion when the sound of the shutter has caught the attention of any wildlife I've captured. If it does present a problem for you, then you might try either of the silent shutter modes (which are completely silent). The downside of those is the total blackout you experience while depressing the shutter button.
Just picked a D850 up on WEX for £1003!....grade 7 with a 200K shutter but I've seen 850s with 600k on the shutter etc
That's awesome stuff, I loved my D850 and at that price it would be hard to find a more capable camera!
I am gonna buy one in next year over Z8. Bought a D7500 in 2023. 😂😂😂😂 In a era of mirrorless.
Hi Tom
I own a d7500 and really push it to its limits getting amazing images but I’ve seen the images and I drool
I shoot landscapes ...seascapes ....some family portrait stuff ...I use tripod in low light
I’m not a professional photographer...maybe I don’t need it but I work hard and will use it
Should I sell my Nikon d7500 to get extra lenses
DONT
I also do wildlife photograph with the sweet d850 and d500 and if you upgrade to the nikon en el 18c battery the battery life lasts for days and days, so well worth the extra costs not always having to check you battery life, and yes the d850 is the best dslr on the market and will never be beaten
Sounds good. I shoot 4k sometimes with my D500 and added a grip to help with the battery life on it. Now I'm thinking about buying a D850 to replace my aging D800. I don't think the fps will be an issue but I'm thinking about going with the grip anyways to help with battery life. Thanks.
Is the D850 far superior to your D500? For wildlife photography is the 850 worth an extra 1400 dollars? I'm kicking around getting one of them to compliment my awesome D750.
I sold a D600, D750, and a D500 and purchased a used D850 and battery grip. Best decision ever! One camera that does everything I want. The battery grip gives me 9fps which is fine for BIF. The higher resolution gives me beautiful detail. For me this is the best DSLR I have ever used.
A very good review Tom based on over a year's use of the D850.
Cheers Andrew - I always think reviews should come after people have “real” experience with a camera rather than a quick week or so!
Great video Tom, I wonder if you still have your 300f2.8 and how does that perform with the d850, I imagine image quality would be pretty amazing! Cheers and all the best for xmas, wish you all the best too for 2019.
The D850 and the 300 2.8 together is simply awesome. The AF speed and consistency is better than ever and the images that come out of it are just perfection. Very happy with the combination together.
@@TomMasonPhoto Thanks for the confirmation, perhaps next year I'll upgrade to the d850 from my d810 and d500, cheers.
I'm looking for a camera to compliment my D750 (which I love). The 750 produces great files but I'm looking into a more dedicated camera for wildlife. For those who have the 500 and 850, is the 850 worth twice the cost of the 500? I know there is noise to deal with from the crop sensor 500 but is it that much of a decrease to warrant an extra 1400?
Right now with the price drop of the D850 it’s so worth it. You’ll need to get the D5 batteries to get the 9FPs (if you need that - I’d highly advise it) that adds some cost but the D850 is the all round best camera I’ve used for wildlife photography! Files are gorgeous, DR and ISO are great, size for cropping and the AF and exposure is always bang on. Personally I’d say it’s well worth the extra!
very nice Tom great review
Cheers Nino, glad you enjoyed!
Hi, nice review! What do think about the D780 vs D850? In generall but also for wildlife.
D850 has face detection (face priority AF). Works reasonably well, not as good as eye AF.
It does but TBH I very rarely use face detection for stills, in Video mode it isn't a great AF performer. The eye AF I know is something lots of people rave about!
Thank you very much Mr Tom
Hi Tom, really helpful video! I have a Nikon D5100- it's served me really well over the years but I'd like a faster camera body for focusing on birds- also I'm beginning to notice that the auto-focus is quite slow. I'd be interested to know which Nikon camera body you would recommend? The D850 sounds incredible, but are there more affordable Nikon bodies you'd recommend? An advice would be great, thanks!
Cheers Sarah, Glad you enjoyed the video.
The D850 is certainly an incredible camera but in the £3k-4k bracket its not cheap!
Depending on your budget there are a number of good options both new and secondhand.
First you'll have to choose if you want to go FX or DX..FX upgrade will require additional spend on lenses to get the best of the sensor and so that might be a consideration if you already have DX kit.
>£500 - Here I would look for a USED Nikon D3 or D700. Both FX bodies, although older now, they still have excellent AF, good ISO performance to 3200 and PRO build quality.
You'll need a few FX lenses to make the most of them like the 300 F4 AFS (£500) a great place to start + a wider 18-35 (the new one is awesome £500)
Staying DX so you don't have to trade up the lenses look for the D7200 - a great all round body, semi pro build, better handling that the D5100 and performance + AF.
£500-1000
FX - look for a used D750, great all round camera with excellent AF and ISO performance. Nice layout and design, also lighter weight than the heavier dude cameras.
DX - a New D7500 however id skip for the option below.
£1000-1500
A great allrounder is a USED Nikon D500 - DX camera again however top class performance in terms of AF and ISO, speed and performance. Build is amazing, handling truly fantastic and the viewfinder is simply wonderful. I own one.
FX - the Nikon D810 - used price around £1300 for a good one - can be found cheaper, but is the best allrounder in terms of cost price and performance. In had one of these pre the D850 and loved it. 36mp FX sensor, great ISO and AF, handling wonderful, lovely viewfinder. The AF is a little older than the D500 however the sensor and resolution makes up for it in my mind. A true great second to the D850 at less that 1/3 £.
Hope that helps, let me know if you need any more info!
Cheers,
Tom
@@TomMasonPhoto Thanks so much- this is all super-useful-you are a fountain of knowledge! Keep up the great work with the videos :)
I went from D5500 to D850 and it goes way over what i can do with a camera as it has everything and more, just needs a good lens, i just use 25mp
I see that you are now ironing your shirts, or just buying new!! ..(just banter) ..All the best.;
hahah
Neither... Its a flannel shirt ;) No Iron necessary! Haha, DW I do actually Iron shirt usually for things, that one T-shirt let me down! :)
I've been watching review after review about this camera, and so far it seems like the perfect camera to upgrade to, however, seeing as it's a at least a year old now, are there better cameras out there now? I mainly do nature and macro photography.
It's a hard one because in reality a better model could come out, however how much will is surpass the D850 for practical use, not much ( in regards to stills) I certainly don't need to upgrade the D850 as my flagship anytime soon, Ill add a Z6 for video and then I really don't need anything more. Higher res versions will come, but right now 45MP is huge for the clients and places I supply images too + large prints, so I don't see a need for an upgrade. I doubt Nikon will make a D860/D900 in 2019 so in reality its still a great investment, especially with the offers on at the moment with £450 in cashback etc. I can't see me needing to upgrade for a good 2/3 years now. Cheers, Tom
@@TomMasonPhoto
Yea, it really does seem like an incredible camera. I've been using my only DSLR for about 7 years, and I'm still impressed with the amount of detail I can get in some shots (18MP), so 45MP is just mind boggling. I've been saving for a few months specifically for the D850 and a few lenses, and am now ready to get it, I just want to make sure that I don't feel like I missed out on a possibly better option after getting it. Thanks for the info, it definitely seems like a great investment.
@@Xiox321 Its a hard one buying new gear especially a while into the cycle, however the thing is the D850 is an incredibly capable camera that I cant seen any major flaws with that I need solved. Yes new cameras come out and they will, but getting one that will last for many years as the D850 will and then going out and shooting is far better than constantly thinking of what could happen. I know Nikon will make some excellent mirrorless cameras in the next few years and I'd think they might replace my D850 eventually, but right now, I'm picking it up and shooting images. When I feel a new options truly surpasses it enough I might look for a new camera, however that won't be at least until 2020 I would have though. A z6 will be purchased for video and being a lightweight backup/hiking camera, but the D850 will be primary for a long time to come!
I own the D 810 & I will stay with Nikon. For me ( wildlife, landscape, macro ) the D850 & for u also first last, I would consider the medium format Fuji cameras for what you shoot. For just 1 do it all camera , the D850 is it !
Really good information about the d850. thank you so much for the review. I would like to know if is it posible to use a tamron 150-600mmg2 with d850 and how good is the imagen quality. Thanks for your answer.
Great vidd! would love a video about the best budget options for wildlife photography, although I know that «budget» is kind of relative, because telephoto lenses are always quite expensive
I shall have something like this in 2019. plans for some more budget friendly gear guides etc. Cheers, Tom
You didn't say what you mean by budget, but the D500 and 200-500 is an excellent option for relatively cheap.
Nice video mate, shame I am stuck with Olympus 🤔 keep it up! Merry Christmas
You don’t have to be ;)
Nothing wrong with that EVF being prime example ;)
I am a professional wildlife photographer from Costa Rica willing to test it on the fields in mostly extreme rainy conditions, bright sun light and off course low light. According to your video this camera shall be a better buy than D5? Correct?
It depends what you’re after - for myself I work all over the place in varied conditions with my key requirement the image quality and love the larger file size. The weatherproofing is excellent and worked will in the jungle however for ultra long term applications / if you prioritise ISO over megapixels and want the best weatherproofing possible the D5 might be a better fit for you. However that’s down to your personal and professional judgement, hope that helps, cheers, Tom
Amazing videos, do you think this is a good entry level camera or do you still stand by a D3 as the best beginner camera?
Personally for a beginner I think the D850 is a demanding camera to start on that’s too expensive for those starting out as they won’t get the best out of it / have the experience to make the most of it, also you’d need the budget for the best glass otherwise you’ll just be limiting the camera.
The d4 right now is a great price point £600/800 rather than £1800/2000 of the D850 that frees up a lot of extra ££ for good lenses
Many thanks keep up the amazing videos, maybe one on shooting with a kit lens 18-55 would be good
Best video on UA-cam
Hi Tom, so what is the performance with the D850 and a 300mm f2.8 with teleconverters ? im not sure if i should buy a 300mm with converters or a 500mm f4.
Personally I love it.
I’ve used the 300 2.8 for years with the 1.4 Tc and the performance is excellent for wildlife - fast AF, great IQ etc. It’s also very handholdable that the 500/4 isn’t making it highly adaptable. With the D850 the flexibility has improved even more, the AF is better than ever with TCs and the sharpness and IQ is just stunning.
I’m going to do a full review of the 300mm 2.8 in the first few weeks of Jan.
I’ve used he 500/4 often as well however for me the 300 is far better for me, travel friendly, gorgeous IQ, handhold wise, and the 2.8 for low light. Hope that helps! Cheers, Tom
Tom Mason but I wonder if is still a great option for birding with a 2x teleconverter. A handholdable at 600mm at f2.8 lens would be great and you have options with teleconverters. Watts you think?
@@RobJorg 2.0 TC slows the AF down compared to the 1.4 thats hardly noticeable but I haven't done too much testing with the 2.0 and the 300mm since the D850 update because cropping with the high MP I feel leads to better IQ. Ill do more testing to be sure but Its an improvement over the 2.0 on any other camera I've used.
@@RobJorg I've been using the 300 f2.8 with the 1.7x with solid results. It It's f4.5, which still leaves plenty of light for fast focus. I pair it with the D500 to get the extra boost. Very hand holdable and the image quality is better than my 200-500 f5.6.
D810 also has a native iso of 64,
Sorry I didn’t make it clear in the vid! Indeed ISO 64 was introduced on the D810 /D850 style cameras (high MP performance bodies) and this is one of the flexibilities that was great contrasted with the D5/D500 that only base to ISO 100. One of the reasons the D5 was less appealing to me. The low ISO is often overlooked for wildlife shooters as an advantage. Cheers Tom
Tom: For better battery life - I hope you've enabled Airplane Mode. :D
I did that all the addition stuff is off!
Great vid Tom
Thanks Adam!
Very useful informative stuff Tom...at what sort of shutter speeds are you finding combo of 45mp and mirror slap making it tough to get sharp images? Several friends disappointed with having to crank iso right up due to having to say 1000th with a 300mm lens...Agree with you totally re the creative possibilities and brilliant AF etc in good light but in UK we are so often in poor conditions...I do a lot of Barn Owl photography and high iso/lowish shutter speeds meant I used my D4s over my D810 all the time even though I'd have loved the 36mp potential and I'm guessing D850 just can't be used handheld in low light with any consistency? or am I missing something?
TBH it depends on the situation, style of image etc. The old "rule of thumb" was at least your shutter speed, so 1/200th for 200mm etc, but I just double that basically. So a 1/600th for 300mm etc. I don't usually have to crank the ISO too high, often 800 or so is easily high enough, especially as often I work with shorter focal lengths and try to be in optimum conditions - but ISO 3200/6400look great anyway. The D850 can handle low light well, you just need to think about how noise looks good and get the exposure nailed. If you under expose too much and lift in post you'll see more noise. However in the most part, even working on some night stuff, it looks good. For barn owls etc, the D4s/D5 probably will be cleaner at the high ISO however when the light is right and those owls come out as the perfect time...I'd rather have a shot on the D850 for printing etc, so I suppose it exercises patience even more, when everything comes together the D850 will give the best performance, however if you need to make the most of a situation, a D5 or camera with lower MP can help. Cheers, Tom
Cheers Tom...it's that age old conundrum that there's no perfect option ! We are now just spoilt when compared with D3/D300 days !! For now I suspect I'll stick with D4s/D810 combo I've got as each got real merits. Hope channel continues to grow...(thinking about resurrecting mine this winter but they are time consuming !!
@@nigelmorley8092 Cheers Dude, yeah the D810 and D4s are a pretty darn decent combo! The funny thing is the D3 is still and excellent camera and for £500 odd now Used I think they make an excellent first camera for wildlife photographers, Super fast, great AF and ISO performance, yes newer cameras have better DR and MP but the D3 is one hell of a work horse! Cheers Dude
Although it is a factor, I am not sure its mirror slap that is the main reason for cranking the shutter speed up Nigel. It's more a result of the D850's sensor's pixel density/size which show any subject movement and/or poor technique. Tom is spot on in that there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to shutter speed v focal length, the stability of the support used and the movement of the subject are also factors. A shutter speed of 2 or even 3 times the focal length is a safe bet when using the D850 but I have used it at much lower shutter speeds. With the D850 there are a couple of other tricks you can use to mitigate this issue. One is to shoot in live view, this is particularly useful for landscapes but I have also used it for fairly stationery wildlife when using a 600mm with 2x teleconference locked down on a heavy tripod with a cable release. Another trick is to down-size the D850 images, eg from 46mp to 20mp. Downsizing may seem counter intuitive but what it effectively does is to reduce noise and to increase image sharpness, this roughly equates to noise levels you would obtain from using the same iso with a D5.
Thanks Andrew...I'm well aware of the high pixel count creating a need for critically good technique and equally the potential solution of downsizing because these two are the exact same issues with the D4s vs D810...The D810 in low light at high iso's on moving subjects is pretty poor but of course it's not really designed for that. Obviously for all my landscape work I use live view (so mirror up) and the self timer/cable release and always have. . But that's not my point. On majority of wildlife shoots, using live view isn't practical and could certainly result in missed shots and also whilst downsizing to 20mp is a solution it totally mitigates a key point for buyers of the D850. On all the D800 series mirror slap has been an issue and definitely contributes to disappointing images in real world situations. A flying Barn Owl/running Fox etc at dusk in the UK with iso6400 at f/4 struggling to get 1/1000th is a real world situation where you just follow/focus and fire and I know of several people who've been disappointed as unsurprisingly D850 struggles to process the 45mp's in these situations ...I've done several in-the-field comparisons with D810 with a 300mm cropped down to DX (so 450mm effective at 24 mp) vs D4 and 500mm in tricky light and the D4 images are way more usable with much higher rate of keepers (obv AF system/fps can effect that but I made tests similar) ... I think my point is that D850 is brilliant for creative wildlife stuff (and no brainer for landscapes though £2k more than a secondhand D810 is questionable if just for landscapes) within it's limitations especially when in decent light but it's no panacea ... of course there is ZERO incentive for any maker to produce the "does everything well" camera !! :-) .
I would like to know if the Power pack increase the rapidity of the autofocus and traking or just give 9 p/s compare to 7 p/s?. Thanks Claude
Mr. Tom do you thing D850 its best for sport
TBH it depends on the sport and how you shoot. Fast action, where you're taking many thousands of images in a day.. needing the ultimate buffer etc, the D5 would be better. Especially if you're shooting under artificial light etc in sports halls or pitches. However if you do setup stuff, portraits of athletes as well as action the D850 might give you more options, and especially if crop factor is a consideration the D850 will offer more scope for cropping in on the action etc.
@@RidingOverland thank you I.will try
@@RidingOverland Certainly the 9FPS is good enough, just depends if you shoot a boat load of low light stuff under floodlights a D5 might be better
hey Tom just wanted to say thank you so much for making your videos, its really helped me understand different aspects of wildlife photography and inspired me to start documenting and teaching on you tube next year. would love to be able o talk on Instagram some time
No worries dude! Yeah drop me a message, I can be awful at replying but ill try my best! So nice to hear you've found the content helpful and useful. Lots more on route in 2019, loads of ideas and plans in place to give everyone more info and help! Cheers, Tom
@@TomMasonPhoto cant wait, really hard to find photographers who actually love what they do and are able to reciprocate their knowledge these days. awesome ill send u a message (Motswiri_Photos)
Motswiri Photos Tom was one of the first photographers I found when exploring wildlife photography. Inspires me to push and try new ideas. :) Thanks Tom
great video
I think I’m going to call your stag shot……….You haven’t seen me right!!
Do you have a link to the screen protector or bumper that is on your camera? This is the first time I have seen such a thing. Thanks
It’s a Zaccuto finder attachment not a protection bumper but kinda works for that too, I’ll see if I can find a link
Thanks
With the battery grip that camera looks really strange ... :-)
For the amount of money that camera cost there should be no cons and it should be able to do everything. But that’s not the case.
D810 has 900 shots per battery while D850 has 1840. Almost double! I think you got it the other way around.
The rated specs maybe, but in use the D850 battery is drained faster. This isn’t a spec sheet review ,it’s from using the two cameras in the field for over a year / two years with the D810. Cheers, Tom
I'll take you word for it since I didn't use the D810.
I moved from D700 to D850 and for me it's a huge leap.
Most people are saying D850 has a great batter life but it probably also depends on the shooting style.
Which lens have you mounted on it ?
85mm 1.8 G
Cheers, Tom
what do you use the F6 for???
Fun! It’s a fantastic camera - must use it even more this year!
If buying new what pro lens would u buy im leaning towards a tamron g2 24-70 vc
Personally I’ve always only used pro Nikon glass, the 24/70 2.8 G is excellent, although I have the older version without VR, used around the world, works like w champ. The new one I know from friends is exceptional however the price is of course quite significant. I don’t know about the Tamron lenses really as I’ve only used Nikon for the past 5 years or more
It is now 1999 euro, bargain or not?
Bargain. Mine was far more than that and worth every single penny.
too bad I'm poor
So you are saying that nikon d850 is better than Sony A9????? Think again......
I am indeed. No banding, exceptional build and ergonomics, XQD, gorgeous optical viewfinder, huge lens selection of native optics and IQ that outperforms pretty much every other FX cam on the market. 20fps is needed for those who often can’t pick the decisive moment to hit the shutter.
8 frames per second compare to 20 frames per second... I think you are a beginner in photographing wildlife..
The only camera I can think of having that speed would be the Sony A9, sure it has good autofocus, and it is fast. but it is not rugged enough for this kind of work, the body is too small and fiddly, and if you need fill flash, that actually is quite useful for birds that doesn't seam to care much, you only get 5 frames/second a good flash can do much better than that. Besides its only 24 Megapixel and I would say croppability and detail is far more important than that many frames/s. Sony also lacks lenses like 600/4 that is quite popular among wildlife photographers.
If I could get something better than D850 I would be much more interested to see a camera with 100 Megapixel 16 bit RAW and 10 fps than 24 Megapixel 12 bit RAWs at 20 fps. Frame rate is not everything, after all we get quite a few wildlife shots at 4 or 5 fps back in the film days.
What does burst rate has to do with wildlife photography?Except to pull more money from amateurs.
Er so he is an amatuer wildlife photographer because he isn't using a faster camera? How about basing it on his work not what camera he uses.
LOL
F7 and F6 are rubbish as rushed, wait for 2nd or 3rd gen
Ive ordered my Z6 after testing mainly with the specific use of video in mind, my D850 and D500 will be my go to for most of my work. Although looking at the images from the Z6 I’m sure I’ll use it a lot too! What features would you like to see added? I think as a first gem they are excellent
Have you ever noticed how much you move your hands towards the camera while you talk lol?
I own a D850 and recently bought a Sony A7R3, the D850 feels so aged compared to it now
Two completely different systems, what is your point?
@@idahomountainlover754 1 is better than the other
I’ve recently subscribed to your channel and I’m glad I did so. But I have one ☝️ constructive criticism; YOU TALK TOO DAM FAST !!!! Sometimes I have too rewind the video two and three times to catch and understand what your saying. Please slow down with your speech. Thank You
I do speak fast I know! can't help it as I always have, Ill try and drop the tase a little!
I currently have a D500 & am thinking about upgrading to the D850 & would love to hear your thoughts.
I shoot mainly wildlife & tend to crop my images on the odd occasion to get a frame filler.
The lenses I currently have are the; Nikon 70-200 f/2.8E, Nikon 500-200 f/5.6 but hope to take the plunge next year & get a 600f/4E super telephoto.
My only reservations are the file sizes of the D850?
What size XQD card do you use in a D850?
I currently use a 32gb & that sees me through the day with the D500.
Great video Tom. Would you say it’s worth upgrading to the D850 from the D500 for wildlife photography?
I must admit since having the D850 I’ve hardly picked up my D500. The look of the FX files I prefer and the detail is amazing. The viewfinder AF coverage is better on the D500 however is of course the same if you use DX crop on the D850 - so it comes down to a) how / what you shoot, and b) cost. If you shoot small birds mainly and would crop often you’d see little difference, if you shoot landscape, macro, details as well as wildlife in the environment shots it’s a great upgrade. Cost wise if you have all the FX lenses and the costs isn’t too much then I’d say it’s a wonderful step up, however if not the D500 is a fabulous camera!
Thanks Tom. It’s tempting, the D850 looks incredible. Mark.
Hey Tom I have a Nikon d7200 and I want to get in to macro photography could you recommend any suitable lenses
Get some macro tubes, reverse ring and aperture ring, $20 all together. Youre going to need a speed light/difusser also, even in full sun. Its all manual, but its probably the cheapest and best way to start.
My advice on a macro lens,Tokina 100mm f2.8 hands down.
Personally I have the 105mm 2.8 VR you can pick them up used for £400 odd now, however a cheaper option is a 60mm that you can find for £200 wish. The probable with the 60mm is shorter working distance however they do offer a more 3D look. I rarely shoot as much macro as others but the 105 is excellent in use. Cheers, Tom