This was reloaded with the correct second 'black' amp where it should be... in the video! :) but alas this was the only other section of video I had left... in any case, even then you can tell that the 'Black' head had substantially more drive than the purple head with the 5751 tube fitted... see what you think.
RCA blackplate 5751 in V4 (phase inverter) in my 67' BF Princeton Reverb. It opens up the sound and softens the landing leading into the power amp section. Less strident, and I have tried all the vintage good stuff 12ax7s in there too! More gain doesn't always = better tone!
Good lord! The Bogner with the normal 12ax7 tube in it sounded sooo much louder than the other one. You only need it to be so loud! The 5751 amp sounded great! Really cleaned things up, just the right amount. Great demo!
Yes the 5751 is one of those tubes I never gave a second thought to... but the Bogner Brixton amp is a very high gain amp so I just thought I would try it. It is surprising about the difference and the 'feel' when playing. Thanks and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial - I thought the black amp sounded brighter and grittier than the Purple amp. Much harsher sound to it. I have a bunch of those 5751 tubes here. Maybe two dozen NOS and some used ones. The last time I sold tubes on Ebay they went quickly. Those were Westinghouse 5751's. The ones I have now are RCA, GE, and Jan.
Interesting video. I have always said that, I want VERY clean yet, heavy overdrive. For example: You CAN have all the gain in the world, and still hear the notes, if you have your rig set up right. Thanks for the upload! Excellent information!
Yes sometimes a 'clean' driven channel is good, but this little amp has so much gain from just two 12AX7 tubes its ridiculous... if you love drive then find one of these Bogner Brixton's - more drive than any amp I own... hence the messing about with the pre-amp tube. Either way you use this amp you would win :) Thanks and stay safe.
Thanks Tony - having seen this I bought myself a 5751 for V1 in my Marshall SV20. Encouraged, I then also replaced V2. Great sound and a more versatile amp, and.... since I now have to turn up the volume controls a couple of extra notches, the treble channel isn't as piercing as the bright cap is dialled out more. Double win !!
Great to know you 'gained' from the video (not) :) and yes the tubes do make a difference... in the little Bogner Brixton's it was immediately obvious in the room and you can tell in the video too. Glad to have been of help and thanks for watching.
Good point... I think its 'just enough' to change things a little with that tube and I'm surprised how few amps use that 5751 as standard (I don't know one! - but I've had a sheltered life) :) Great that you use the tube as a standard too and I'm sure others could learn from that. Stay safe.
Yep…I bought one recently for a Tone King Imperial MK2. Some say this amp has to much high end sparkle on the clean given bright cap. Using Humbuckers and wanted a bit more fine tune on the breakup, and smooth the top end a little when it breaks up. Put one in the V1 on my amp and left the rest of the amp stock. They def went up in price, have the same GE and was about $50 for one. But def worth it if you are breaking up too much at 2-3 volume on a clean channel, or you may feel the gain is too spiky and bright. Or if you have issues with your amp and pedals. I encourage most to try this, before snipping a bright cap. You may find a simple tube like this in V1 or V2 does the trick for you. They are rated at 70% gain vs the 12ax7 100% gain. Some will argue it pointless and will just change the volume knob dial placement, while making no difference to the gain, headroom or tone. But you have to judge that for yourself! In some cases it may not be the ticket. But in vintage style amp circuits I find they work very well. And may be the right thing to smooth out a harsh top end of a bright cap, and make pedals more friendly.
A ecc823 in v1 on the Marshall dsl is great for same amount of gain on clean channel and cut the gain on the red channel can actually turn the gain past 4 now
Great point and one I did not know - so thanks for posting this snippet. I did look online after your comment as I was intrigued a bit and Eurotubes said 2In the ECC823 the first half of the tube (pins 1, 2 and 3) are the high gain 12AX7/ECC83 spec and the second half (pins 6, 7 and 8) are the low gain 12AU7/ECC82 spec. So the ECC823 can be used in amps like the Mesa DC series in V1 to keep the clean channel stock and drop the gain down in the drive channel." Very interesting point and one for V1 especially if both stages of V1 are used in the amp. Thanks for this info really appreciated and thanks for watching.
My favorite tube. It really reduces compression. It worked wonders in my TH30 Orange. The dirty channel was too compressed and this tube made the dirty channel sing. I also used one in my Orange OR50 with sccess. I think i liked it best in PI.
Yes ive a 7 month old 1990 infinium and its harsh a brittle on the clean and got suddenly dark on the gain channel. Ive seven pedals. So ive recieved some 5751's and 12 wd7's and 6ca7 to change to. But yes i had a marahall that after a mixmatch of tubes it came alive
Tubes or valves as they say often here are interesting and easy to generally drop in and out - they can make a huge difference. I wanted to make a video that sort of showed an example so here it is. Thanks for the info of your experience too - its all useful info.
Very interesting. The Blue amp was warmer sounding to my ear where the black amp sounded harder/more solid. I didn't hear as much of a gain difference as I did a volume difference and the character of the tone difference. I preferred how the blue amp sounded. I've been swapping various 12AX7 tubes in the V1 position of my '72 Super Lead after I had the amp recently retubed and biased with Tung-Sol EL34B power tubes and new preamp tubes. None of the 12AX7's seem to be getting me to where I want the amp to sound. It sounds harder and not as warm as it did before the retube, but it is louder. Let me say that my amp tech noticed that there was a GE and an RCA 5751 in V1 and V2 before the retube. I thought that very strange when he told me that. After watching your vid, I may have to try a 5751 tube in V1 and maybe in V2 too. The 5751 might soften the character of the amp, make it warmer sounding and allow me to dial in more volume to get the power tubes cooking a little more. FYI, my Super Lead has a PPIMV modification.
The 5751 usually effectively reduces the drive a little (if I remember its about 70% of the 12AX7 or something around there) so it changes things a little for sure. When you play with those in you can 'feel' the difference IMO too. Hope it helps... and thanks for watching.
The black amp sounds brighter and harsher in a great way. The blue amp seems to have more dimension in the tone, both great but if I had to choose one for the tone it would be the purple one.
Thanks for watching and for the comments of your thoughts of the difference in tone. Yes I agree that the purple one was certainly different and other than the tube they were the same amp. It was surprising just how different they really were...
Thanks this may come in handy for my dsl 20h I can't wait to try it as the gain is too much on it and if i operate it on that channel with the gain low its seems to choke my sustain a fair bit and the clean channel sucks on it 🤟🤟🤟🤟 One thing you didn't mention unless I'm daft is what position you put the 5157 in sir v1 v2 or v3 ?????? Nice amps and Les Paul you've got there sir !!!!!
I love a 12ay7 in V1 of my amps, blues deluxe, blues jr, 57 champ, champion 600 & now EC Twinolux and soon a Tube Amp Doctor 5e3 clone. The tone is much nicer with these tubes, more fuller and rounded, you still get a good amount of gain but it's much less harsh and easier on the ears
Great point and from personal experience is what I like to hear too. It's surprising how many guys don't try other tubes in the V1 of the preamp and the results can be very surprising. I was surprised about this in the video. Thanks for watching and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial yeah I find an ax7 can be too harsh and 'fizzy' but the ay7 rounds the tone out before sending it to the output tubes so the overall sound isn't so clipped and jarring
Thanks for the video! The comparison is not quit fair because there is a large volume increase when going to the 12AX7, which is as is expected since you get approximately 30% more Wattage out of the amp with that setting. To make a fair comparison you need to change the volume setting as you switch between the to tubes to keep the volume stable and thereby to be able to distinguish the tonal differences.
Thank you for this! Had no idea the sound of an amp could be altered so much with a 5751. Loved the sound of the blue one. Going to try this in my 6505+ combo. Thanks🙌🏾
I dug a couple out of my tube box gen e 5751 put in my little supro super wow the tone is improved no end gain cleaner smoother oh I brought mine 6 years ago 12.50 each the price on ebay is mad now nos gen e 5751 is a great match for my amp and pocket
The black amp sounded more raspy and high pitched. So much more annoying than the blue/purple amp!?!. I'd definitely go with the first amp you played. Might be change of camera view and the mic on the video recorder picked up on the tone differently! Thanks fir the review.
The black was the original and that amp can be very aggressive - hence the 5751 tube change to show the difference. I'm sure other things contributed but there was a clear difference. Stay Safe!
Another worthy point regarding the 5751, especially if using the JAN versions of either GE or Philips, is their longevity, and of course improved tonality + staging. I’ve personally used them for a long time in both my Marshall and Boogie. Each of those is 100+ . . Don’t like quiet 🤩
They both went through exactly the same equipment... and used the same settings... there was no 'direct' output on those two amps. The Black was brash for sure... stay safe.
Despite the nomenclature, the 5751 is inherently a more suitable, compatible lower-gain replacement than a 12AT7 for a lower-gain variant of a 9-pin 12AX7 tube. The 5751 is a lot more likely to sound good and musical in a circuit designed for 12AX7. And you can believe me because I've been building and modifying tube HiFi and guitar amps for over 20 years. And I have a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering. And I never lie. Oh, and I'm always right :o) 🤣
The blue/purple one sounded more "blues-ey", the black - more rock-ish. It's not only the distortion but the overall tone, which in the first case is darker and more rounded. I would suggest you level match them for such comparisons though as the louder sound may distort the playback in the viewer's headphones as well. Good suggestion though!
Yes I get it. I did try hard with those knobs etc. on the two amps but that was best I could muster for the video. The 5751 took away some of the 'edge' I think and felt a bit better, whereas the 12AX7 did push it further. Thanks for the info and thanks too for watching...
I Like to build my own amps for clean, I’m mostly a bass player. I like to use tubes with even less gain, especially in the phase inverter, tubes like 12AU7 or 6SN7.
The preamp gainoutput obviously drives the main power tubes. They remain at whatever output they should be... but of course if you drive the output tubes less then they wont achieve the same 'output' but you will be hard presed to hear the difference... thanks for watching.
I thought the blue amp sounded much warmer and a bit cleaner . I prefer that fuller sounding distortion over The Black Amp, and what I thought was high gain and more compressed sounding .
Yes the amp by default is highly driven when you buy it. Great for me, but giving it thought I wondered what the 5751 might do to change things. There is a difference for sure so the overall outcome of the video is that the 5751 is worth a try if you have any amp with 12AX7 (ECC83) etc. Thanks for watching and for the post...
I have an older version of the fender 5150 III 50 watt head. I love the blue and green channel unfortunately they share the same controls. The volume drop going from clean green channel to the rhythm blue channel is not acceptable. I was hoping I could turn the red channel into a clean channel and use the blue channel as my distortion. Is that possible?
Well the 5751 tube reduces the drive a little. But amp techs likely can reduce the drive/volumes on the amp - sorry I don't really have much experience on the Fender amp so I don't mind admitting I'm not sure of amp mods for it. But great question and if anyone has an answer for MTTF that would be great to hear.
Significant differences - 12ax7 had more trebly harshness - it was more “ painful” , 5751 had less gain but less frequency spikes , more balanced and “ musical” - at least to my ear- thanks for sharing experiment
@@tonymckenzieofficial i have 2 , 5751 in my 6505 as we speak - less freq spikes and better quality gain! ( i did multiple experiments and did leave in 1 ,12ax7)
Black amp 12ax7 more gain and more sizzle in the top. Pretty much my experience as well. I usually go for a 5751 when playing my les Paul’s and still wanting some clean headroom. Only downside is losing some chime in the top
The Brixton has so much gain it's unreal... so the 5751 in THIS amp does make sense really. An unusual amp for sure though and would I fit a 5751 in to a Marshall? Not really... and it's all subjective really. Interesting stuff though... and thanks - stay safe too!
the black one definetely kills the music :-) the blue one was without doubt more musical and coherent, thanks for the interesting comparisions:-) very helpful as i soon will try to tube roll in my hifi pre amp with 5751 instead of 12ax7 in v1 position, and have ordered GE black plates 3 mica ,the same spec tube for the v2 12at7,also buy a pair Sylvania black plate 50s 12av7 to test with, i would rather have a distortion free and coherent tone than a blasty nervous and distorted one cant wait to try it out :-) thanks again sincerely Ivan
You can replace other 12AX7's in the amp but I'm not too sure about the 'PI' one. And there are other tubes as Tommy on here has said also... always worth a go. I don't know the 12AV7 that you mentioned? Yes I thought the blue was best too :) Stay safe.
Tony, I have a VOX Night train 15W . Is a 5751 compatible ? I mean are there consequences in amp reliability when you make this swap . What I mean is aren’t these high gain amps designed for 12ax7 ? Will they be more likely to break using a different tube like 5751 ?
If you have a 12AX7 or ECC83 then its VERY likely you can try a 5751 tube. I did review a Vox night train some years ago and unfortunately I have been asleep since :) but if you have the 12AX7 tube or the ECC83 (basically the same) then try it. I doubt you will cause damage with a tube that is pretty much compatible in any case. As you might know inside a !"AX7 are basically TWO stages. Some makers on V1 only use one stage for example, while many 'modders' of original designs use the second stage of V1 to 'hot rod' the amp - to drive the amp more with effectively 'extra' stages of gain. I have tried 5751 tubes in a number of amps and never had any issue. I can't say every amp is like that, but my guess is most by far would test fine. Great question... and thanks for watching.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Thanks for your response. I did put one of these in an EVH LBX (the original black and white one) and, I must say, am quite pleased with the results. No volume reduction, unfortunately, but it gave a much better taper to the gain knob on both channels. I actually got a pretty decent clean from the blue channel with the gain way down (about at 1/2 up). Now I wonder if I should put one in the V2 slot as well to see if that will reduce the gain even further. I'll keep you updated if I do. I really like the results so far.
I would like to try this with a JCM2000 TSL122 combo amp similar to the nice red "head" version behind you in the video. Should I do the swap with both V1 and V2 to affect the crunch and lead channels, or in this case would i just look at changing V2 since the clean channel is already quite clean? Also how do you know which tubes are V1 and V2?
I believe the TSL100 122 is the combo? I would try it in V1 first. If it has too much reduction then flip it to V2 instead and try it there. It should be fine in either place. On the tubes (download the manual) check the manual and they are shown in it... the manual is here: www.manualsdir.com/manuals/114710/marshall-electronic-tsl100-tsl122.html and let me know if it works for you... stay safe.
FYI.... I tried in v1 first... it made the clean channel too clean ( lost the Marshall character) but seemed to help the crunch and lead channels some. I swapped the 5751 to v2 and it was great.. clean channel character restored, and crunch and lead channels much nicer! I love it! Thanks.
Very noticeable the black amp has appreciably more gain than the purple one. A very useful tip that you can reduce the gain with a valve change without losing the tonal qualities of these fabulous amps. Great video as usual Tony, thanks for the painstaking way you go about these reviews, much appreciated.
Absolutely a huge difference. I much prefer the tone with the 5751's installed. It was a much more pure tone and less raspy. I have also owned that amp.. its a snarling little beast. Thanks Tony I hope you and family are well
Agreed. Ah you owned a Brixton... not many of us around :) Indeed it IS snarlier for sure with so much drive on it hence the idea about the 5751. Thanks and stay safe.
Thank you😎👍🏼 Exactly the answer I was looking for! Took apart for cleaning a custom made amp and noticed two tubes in it weren’t exactly as labeled to be there. Had me worried some orangutan had gotten a hold of it….lol The other tube is a GB-6201 replacing a 12AT7…. Any thoughts? Original lineup: 4- 6L6 2- 12AT7 1- 12AX7 1- 7025 Mod: 4- 6L6 2- GB 6201 1- 5751 1- 7025 Great Demonstration, much appreciated. 😎👍🏼🎶
Glad it helped! and I did not know that tube, but I checked and here's the answer: Sylvania 12AT7 GB-6201 gold pin preamp driver tube basically a 12AT7 but old one. Maybe they wanted to get very clean with the amp by using the 5751 - it does make a difference especially if you have a 12AX7 in there and switch that out for the 5751. Thanks for watching.
Escuse me do you know if I are any difference between use a tubes with different gain than ones with the same gain??? I bought separately two tubos, But I don’t know if can I use them like this or maybe those can affect my sound quality one is gain A: 94.7 gain B 97.5 and the other is gain A: 104.4 GainB 94.1.
tonymckenziecom no problem . And definetly in real life it sounds so much better than in my headphones on youtube. Thats that ! Love your chanell . keep it up !
If you want to 'tame' the amp a little fit the 5751 in V1. Don't bother putting it in the PI. It will change the sound a little but you might like it better. Or indeed a 12AT7 works with less drive too. The 5751 seemed to sound better in this amp to me. Let me know if you try it and what you thought Antonio. Thanks and stay safe.
I can’t stand amps that break up at a low volume, especially when the preamp is on 3.5 and below, it drives me crazy. I have as my old Marshall my stock Marshall Major 200w head, no preamp, which you really have to turn up to 5 and above to start hearing the slightest amount of breakup... Even the new Marshall 1959 heads are waaay more distorted than the originals. If you wanted gain back in the day you either used a treble booster or you got the amp modified, PERIOD, and it still wasn’t distorted or crunchy. It just had punch, and tone for days. Today amps are so distorted that you loose whatever character the amp has and you definitely can’t hear any of the woody-ness of your guitar. Even Randy Rhodes used a distortion + with his 1959 head. That’s why his signature head is bullshit, his head was fckn clean man. You gotta start with a clean palette IMHO, you might have to try 10 distortion pedals before you find the one you like, but I can guarantee you that you will have your OWN sound, not the same sound everyone else does. As far as the two Bogner’s I get what your trying to do and I’m hipper, but I would love to hear them both with the volume on 10 and the preamp dialed in from zero. But you have got the right idea, not enough guitar players experiment with different tube types...they should, they just might be surprised. Thanks for the heads up on the tube, I’m gonna try it on a couple of overly distorted amps I have.
The Bogner is an amp with barely any tone stack and I believe designed to be dramatic :) The 5751 is a very useful tube re 30% less drive. I'm with you on the Marshall gear (did you check my recent series on those?). As Tommy said somewhere on here the 12AT7, 12AU7 are also contenders... stay safe.
randy ferri excellent points, my favourite amp was a modified 50 watt Fender Tremolo head. The old fellow I bought it from had pulled out the trem, speed and depth hardware and replaced it with a preamp. It would go from super clean to warmly broken up overdrive that was smoother than silk. I had a spinal cord injury and that cost me the use of my hands, fingers-“fine motor skills”-I sold it, (and the Marshall 4*12 cab it pushed through), to a friend for a song. In hindsight, that was a terrible mistake! I’ve since taken up using a slide on the guitars I kept and would love to have that amplifier back. Sometimes you get perfect "tone", but it takes quite a chase to find it. I really enjoyed reading your post, thanks for sharing it.
Hey Randy. Great point. I agree with you. I was all Marshall back in the day. Even the original 25/50 jubilee Broke up early and that was back in 87’. That’s how I wound up with a bunch of cleaner smaller amps that gave me a much later break up. I settled in with a Fender 68’ Deluxe reverb. It’s got all the cleans on one side and a bassman tone circuit. I get all my breakup from a good MATCHED Fuzz and MATCHED OD/Boost. That’s it.
Het Tommy I watched a video this morning about an ex fender guy and how he took a reissue deluxe reverb and made it like the original. A very informative video - he did not say exactly what he did, but he did show the amp that they modified and played a bit at the end. It's on YT somewhere...
Does the 5751 tube also mellow the tone a little? Prosumably Tony the overall volume of the amp is lower,? So you could drive the power amp tubes harder for breakup?
interesting .. the difference between them for me was how bright and brittle the 12ax7 sounded compared to the 5751. I've never heard of a 5751, where can you get them and what amps are they usually used in? thanks
Very difficult to tell online but I thought the black one sounded a little more alive, there again I might change my mind if I experimented with it on my own with various drive pedals. It would be great if you ever get opportunity to review the 5150 Van Halen signature head at some point 👍
Well the idea of the video is to make guys think about other pre-amp tubes and it might be that they did not even know you can do that. On the 5150 its all down to what I have or can borrow for a short time. If I get one then it gets reviewed... unlikely Eddie will 'pop around' and loan me his any time soon. But hey Eddie... if you're listening :) Stat safe.
OH I know, it's like watching one of those B type movies... and we're the stars in it! Horrible situation, but I also think there will be more to follow. Seems everyone (governments) walks while it really needs a sprint!. Thanks.
An AX7A is rated at 100 typical factory spec for total preamp gain in V1 AT7A (5751) rates 63 AY7A rates 45 the AT, AY 5751 all allow more headroom, smoother volume increase can go to 6-7 with a Blues Deluxe or Deville at clean preamp volume, much better tone for Blues, jazz, any one of the three is adequate With the AX7A you can't run those amps at 3-4 without earplugs or losing small bar gigs or church
Hi Matthias, Well you could do that, but that will LOWER the gain of the amplifier. In the case of the 1959HW I have I would want to increase it myself... but maybe that's what you are looking for? Everyone does not always want more :) Thanks... and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Hi Tony, thanks for your answer! I'm just curious if low gain crunch would sound better than with the stock V1 tube. Maybe I will order one and try, they're not expensive. Stay safe too!
I changed my preamp tubes for jj, low gain, in my DSL1. I wanted more clean headroom, it did work out, I play anything from shadows to Gary Moore. I might try the 5751, but you did not demo a clean sound with humbuckers. On Utube they always swap to a fender for cleans. I need to do it all with one guitar. P.s. I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work.
Sorry I did not demo the 'clean' sound. The amp is generally a very highly driven amp (Bogner Brixton) and the object for me was to reduce that a bit. It does work though and should help. Try it and see if it is enough... 12AT7 also reduces gain too... hope it helps and do let me know. Thanks for watching.
@@tonymckenzieofficial thanks Tony, I didn't say, but I'm 68 and have been playing since I was 10. I'm a big Marshall fan and met Jim a few times. Had my heads serviced at the Bletchley factory. Unfortunately I can't pick up anything heavy anymore. I do open Mic nights to keep my hand in. The Dsl1 is loud enough with my vintage 30 loaded cab, and if not di I to the pa. Most new amps have too much overdrive for me, lve blown a few big Fenders up so I stick with Marshall. I had one of the 1st 100 watt, master volume heads, it had a big clean sound with an SG2000, I had at the time. Working with Dave Berry and the cruisers. Hayho . Nidge.
Ha I'm similar age and I know what it can be like as we get older for sure. That MV if you still have it is worth good money these days - I had them too but now only have the reissue... great amps.
There's no question that will help! The 12AT7 is lower output I think than the 5751 but just check it online. There are also some other 12**7 tubes that are low out and compatible. Hey let me know if you find one that really works for the MT15... that's a very driven amp. Stay safe.
That was not even close. Im wondering, if the Black amp was clipping mics, or speakers or what. It was waaay over the top. The Blue was very nice, tight, chunky sound, The Black was all over the place, with very strange clipping (probably mic/recording preamp clipping). Imo, tubes are best tested at 1 tube amps, like Fender Champions and similar. If someone goes to you, to say "all 12AX7 sounds the same", lets try it first with such amp. Not to talk about 5751, 7025, 10AU7s and so on. Good video, thank you.
I do believe the black amp DID appear to have 'more' of everything and although the settings were exactly the same (as far as could be determined) my reckoning is that the 12AX7 drove the power amp further than the power amp was driven in the 5751 tubed purple amp. This model amp has huge gain in it and I think really the 5751 'tamed' the amp just a little... and that was really the emphasis of the video. Thanks for all the info and your post - Ha... don't think all 12AX7 sound the same either - I have tried so many different tubes... for example on the H&K Grandmeister 36 I specifically flipped the preamp tubes out and fitted different brand to quell the overly toppy tone of the original tubes here: ua-cam.com/video/I7UxJ8Rb19A/v-deo.html where you can see out came those standard ones... Thanks for watching.
I find it hard to believe that the mic placement wasn't changed between the two clips. I can hear a LOT more "room" in the second one. The second one actually sounds more like the mic on your computer or phone than a close-mic'd amp.
Yes I could have done that, but honestly they are pretty much identical sounding when with the same setup. But a good point! I thought the blue was nicer sounding too :) Stay safe.
:) well I can guess I'm past my sell by date but thankfully I have a wife that sees through all of that :) Hard to find one that would actually like me :) and my musical mess :)
I have got the opposite problem :) Id like to make my cornford roadhouse more "gainy" without sticking OD pedal in front. There is already 12ax7 in v1. I was thinking about chinese 12ax7b, or old rft nos tubes. I heard the old nos tubes like to overdrive faster than new production 12ax7. Any other mods ideas i could try? Peace!
Not too easy... does it have a loop? I know this sounds silly but you could try putting a ts808 in the loop with the gain backed off... but the level high... alternatively look for a pedal like this: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seymour-Duncan-SFX-91-Pickup-Booster-V1-Clean-Boost-Guitar-Effect-Pedal-READ-/223923120552?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10 which I know will help... stay safe....
Try this one too: www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/12031312140432--tc-electronic-spark-line-booster?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhZTmgeS46AIVw7TtCh10MQo1EAQYAiABEgLo7_D_BwE it also has 26Db of CLEAN gain...
@@petkopeet Hey, I think I mentioned to you about the Seymour clean gain pedal? It might be worth watching a new review I'm going to be doing some time this next week of that TC electronics pedal (that I linked to) that is exactly that pedal and I bought for about $49 (£38 or so) because of the comments I made at the time. Should be interesting and stay safe.
Hi Tony, I prefer the Blue amp; It was far less harsh and a lot more warmer and rounded than the Black amp. The difference was night and day. Nice mod Tony. 👍🏻
Hi Kalvin, that's a really great comment that I had to think about... well at least for a moment! :) But you can't make the blue one sound like the black one with that 5751 tube in there :) Ha even as I type - that really is a great comment. Stay safe.
Hi @@tonymckenzieofficial - and thanks. I guess it's hard to differentiate 'drive' (pre-amp distortion) and volume, because the Black amp is just so much louder anyway. Notwithstanding you're not making videos for me specifically, I'd have liked to see what happened when you volumed down on the guitar... I'd expect that 'cleaning up' the sound of the Black amp would require more decrease in guitar volume.... and a completely different sound from the Blue amp (less volume decrease to get clean) because it would have less preamp gain. I guess I'd like to also see how much extra master/output volume you could dial in to get the same volume, but cleaner out of the Blue as well... not just in reference to these types of high gain amps, but with a view to adding the lower gain preamp (V1) tube to e.g. a Deluxe Reverb do it stays even cleaner when turned up loud... i.e. to make it even more responsive to dirt pedals because of more headroom.
@@MikeSadlerAU Hi Mike... great comments and I should have done a bit more on camera for sure. Those two before the change were exactly the same BTW. The Brixton IS a very aggressive amp with virtually no tone stack to speak of IMO and just a couple of switches to contend with. Great point on the 'pedal' use too and I think that would make a difference. While the gain is reduced with the 5751 tube it's not a divide by ten situation but you can tell. I could come back to this again later and who knows I might but not currently as work is pressing and I'm so short of time right now, but great points and thanks for watching. Stay safe too.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Thanks for the response! Maybe the ball's in my court now... I guess I should *just buy the bloody valve* and try it in my '65 DRRI (before and after)... though it's a very different amp to those brutes you have, they principle should hold true... reducing the preamp gain *should* allow a cleaner sound at higher volume before breakup. If I do, I'll vid and post. You stay safe out there too... here in AU it's pretty easy by being sensible; elsewhere it seems like some sick roulette wheel. Break a leg!
Ha the penny only just dropped on your screen name :) Yep buy a valve they are cheap enough. Yes it would be great to know what you think of the 5751 tube. There are others with even less gain, but that was an older one I had lying around... worth a try in any case.
wow. just observing... while the tube difference is noticeable. this helped me otherwise: I was looking at the very amp for purchase, and it sounded like crap, either way... Thanks!.
The purple one was tamer... and that worked quite well in real life. But also remember that there are a number of switches on the Brixton that affect the tone in a big way, so a bit unfair on the amp from this recording... check my full review (inside and out) on my channel if you want to know lots more about the Bogner Brixton here: ua-cam.com/video/ZCgWXGNDciw/v-deo.html and hope it helps... thanks. Stay safe...
tonymckenziecom One of the reasons I subscribed to your channel was that you took-what must be a LOT of-time to reply to the many comments you receive. You’re the ‘real deal', Tony. Thanks very much for sharing your videos, and replying to the questions et cetera...👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks for the sub. I'm not always right as this general subject covers so many skills overall. But I do believe that if someone takes the time to write something on a video, then at the very least they deserve a reply. The time these days is not as bad as it once was and is manageable now (especially in this difficult time with the virus thing - I have weeks of basically nothing to do - on lock down) but I guess I'll make some more videos :) Thanks... and stay safe right now...
Ha I'm always getting out of tune :) so apologies for that. Sometimes its not OOT but over pressing on very light strings depending on which guitar I'm using. Yes the two are quite different really thanks to that 5751 tube... Thanks for watching.
Yes I would say that most guys do. The Bogner Brixton has huge gain and is toppy (no real tone controls to speak of) and the 5751 smooths things a bit. Thanks and stay safe.
This was reloaded with the correct second 'black' amp where it should be... in the video! :) but alas this was the only other section of video I had left... in any case, even then you can tell that the 'Black' head had substantially more drive than the purple head with the 5751 tube fitted... see what you think.
I like the idea of higher headroom before the gain. Helps to run effects in the front of the preamp without it turning to noise.
The 5751 certainly helps.... stay safe.
Me too
RCA blackplate 5751 in V4 (phase inverter) in my 67' BF Princeton Reverb. It opens up the sound and softens the landing leading into the power amp section. Less strident, and I have tried all the vintage good stuff 12ax7s in there too! More gain doesn't always = better tone!
Thanks Ian for that information and I'm sure many will be interested - me too :) Thanks for watching.
Good lord! The Bogner with the normal 12ax7 tube in it sounded sooo much louder than the other one. You only need it to be so loud! The 5751 amp sounded great! Really cleaned things up, just the right amount. Great demo!
Yes the 5751 is one of those tubes I never gave a second thought to... but the Bogner Brixton amp is a very high gain amp so I just thought I would try it. It is surprising about the difference and the 'feel' when playing. Thanks and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial - I thought the black amp sounded brighter and grittier than the Purple amp. Much harsher sound to it. I have a bunch of those 5751 tubes here. Maybe two dozen NOS and some used ones. The last time I sold tubes on Ebay they went quickly. Those were Westinghouse 5751's. The ones I have now are RCA, GE, and Jan.
Interesting video. I have always said that, I want VERY clean yet, heavy overdrive. For example: You CAN have all the gain in the world, and still hear the notes, if you have your rig set up right. Thanks for the upload! Excellent information!
Yes sometimes a 'clean' driven channel is good, but this little amp has so much gain from just two 12AX7 tubes its ridiculous... if you love drive then find one of these Bogner Brixton's - more drive than any amp I own... hence the messing about with the pre-amp tube. Either way you use this amp you would win :) Thanks and stay safe.
Thanks Tony - having seen this I bought myself a 5751 for V1 in my Marshall SV20. Encouraged, I then also replaced V2. Great sound and a more versatile amp, and.... since I now have to turn up the volume controls a couple of extra notches, the treble channel isn't as piercing as the bright cap is dialled out more. Double win !!
Great to know you 'gained' from the video (not) :) and yes the tubes do make a difference... in the little Bogner Brixton's it was immediately obvious in the room and you can tell in the video too. Glad to have been of help and thanks for watching.
I've been running 5751 in all my vintage Fender amps for years , my clean sound is oh so sweet !
Good point... I think its 'just enough' to change things a little with that tube and I'm surprised how few amps use that 5751 as standard (I don't know one! - but I've had a sheltered life) :) Great that you use the tube as a standard too and I'm sure others could learn from that. Stay safe.
me too. love em' especially rca
Yep…I bought one recently for a Tone King Imperial MK2. Some say this amp has to much high end sparkle on the clean given bright cap. Using Humbuckers and wanted a bit more fine tune on the breakup, and smooth the top end a little when it breaks up. Put one in the V1 on my amp and left the rest of the amp stock. They def went up in price, have the same GE and was about $50 for one.
But def worth it if you are breaking up too much at 2-3 volume on a clean channel, or you may feel the gain is too spiky and bright. Or if you have issues with your amp and pedals. I encourage most to try this, before snipping a bright cap. You may find a simple tube like this in V1 or V2 does the trick for you. They are rated at 70% gain vs the 12ax7 100% gain. Some will argue it pointless and will just change the volume knob dial placement, while making no difference to the gain, headroom or tone. But you have to judge that for yourself! In some cases it may not be the ticket. But in vintage style amp circuits I find they work very well. And may be the right thing to smooth out a harsh top end of a bright cap, and make pedals more friendly.
Thanks for that run through of your experience and for watching...
A ecc823 in v1 on the Marshall dsl is great for same amount of gain on clean channel and cut the gain on the red channel can actually turn the gain past 4 now
Great point and one I did not know - so thanks for posting this snippet. I did look online after your comment as I was intrigued a bit and Eurotubes said 2In the ECC823 the first half of the tube (pins 1, 2 and 3) are the high gain 12AX7/ECC83 spec and the second half (pins 6, 7 and 8) are the low gain 12AU7/ECC82 spec. So the ECC823 can be used in amps like the Mesa DC series in V1 to keep the clean channel stock and drop the gain down in the drive channel." Very interesting point and one for V1 especially if both stages of V1 are used in the amp. Thanks for this info really appreciated and thanks for watching.
The blue amp had a warmer sound, and given a choice I would definitely choose it over the black one with the 12ax7s
There is a difference but thankfully the 5751 can be used on either :). Thanks...
Manythank for the demo. Just got a Peavy Valveking 11 50w combo. I'll try it on that to cream it up a bit.i find it a bit harsh.
Yes just make sure the ones you pull out have compatible sockets.. if 12ax7 then generally OK. Thanks.
My favorite tube. It really reduces compression. It worked wonders in my TH30 Orange. The dirty channel was too compressed and this tube made the dirty channel sing. I also used one in my Orange OR50 with sccess. I think i liked it best in PI.
It certainly has its place for sure... and thanks for watching...
Yes ive a 7 month old 1990 infinium and its harsh a brittle on the clean and got suddenly dark on the gain channel. Ive seven pedals. So ive recieved some 5751's and 12 wd7's and 6ca7 to change to. But yes i had a marahall that after a mixmatch of tubes it came alive
Tubes or valves as they say often here are interesting and easy to generally drop in and out - they can make a huge difference. I wanted to make a video that sort of showed an example so here it is. Thanks for the info of your experience too - its all useful info.
Very interesting. The Blue amp was warmer sounding to my ear where the black amp sounded harder/more solid. I didn't hear as much of a gain difference as I did a volume difference and the character of the tone difference. I preferred how the blue amp sounded.
I've been swapping various 12AX7 tubes in the V1 position of my '72 Super Lead after I had the amp recently retubed and biased with Tung-Sol EL34B power tubes and new preamp tubes. None of the 12AX7's seem to be getting me to where I want the amp to sound. It sounds harder and not as warm as it did before the retube, but it is louder. Let me say that my amp tech noticed that there was a GE and an RCA 5751 in V1 and V2 before the retube. I thought that very strange when he told me that. After watching your vid, I may have to try a 5751 tube in V1 and maybe in V2 too. The 5751 might soften the character of the amp, make it warmer sounding and allow me to dial in more volume to get the power tubes cooking a little more. FYI, my Super Lead has a PPIMV modification.
The 5751 usually effectively reduces the drive a little (if I remember its about 70% of the 12AX7 or something around there) so it changes things a little for sure. When you play with those in you can 'feel' the difference IMO too. Hope it helps... and thanks for watching.
The black amp sounds brighter and harsher in a great way. The blue amp seems to have more dimension in the tone, both great but if I had to choose one for the tone it would be the purple one.
Thanks for watching and for the comments of your thoughts of the difference in tone. Yes I agree that the purple one was certainly different and other than the tube they were the same amp. It was surprising just how different they really were...
I am considering a 5751 in V1 for my JTM50 build. That's a cleaner Marshall than the Super Leads though.
5751 will tame it a bit more... thanks for watching.
Thanks this may come in handy for my dsl 20h I can't wait to try it as the gain is too much on it and if i operate it on that channel with the gain low its seems to choke my sustain a fair bit and the clean channel sucks on it 🤟🤟🤟🤟
One thing you didn't mention unless I'm daft is what position you put the 5157 in sir v1 v2 or v3 ??????
Nice amps and Les Paul you've got there sir !!!!!
I would put it in V1 but you could also in V2...
I’m going to experiment with 5751 and 12at7 in my already clean amp soon. Vox ac30c2. Will share my experience.
Yes do let me know how you go with it and thanks for watching.
I love a 12ay7 in V1 of my amps, blues deluxe, blues jr, 57 champ, champion 600 & now EC Twinolux and soon a Tube Amp Doctor 5e3 clone. The tone is much nicer with these tubes, more fuller and rounded, you still get a good amount of gain but it's much less harsh and easier on the ears
Great point and from personal experience is what I like to hear too. It's surprising how many guys don't try other tubes in the V1 of the preamp and the results can be very surprising. I was surprised about this in the video. Thanks for watching and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial yeah I find an ax7 can be too harsh and 'fizzy' but the ay7 rounds the tone out before sending it to the output tubes so the overall sound isn't so clipped and jarring
Well thanks for the post Matt.... and stay safe.
Thanks for the video! The comparison is not quit fair because there is a large volume increase when going to the 12AX7, which is as is expected since you get approximately 30% more Wattage out of the amp with that setting. To make a fair comparison you need to change the volume setting as you switch between the to tubes to keep the volume stable and thereby to be able to distinguish the tonal differences.
Thats a fair enough comment of course. But there is a tonal difference still can be seen. Thanks for watching!.
Thank you for this! Had no idea the sound of an amp could be altered so much with a 5751. Loved the sound of the blue one. Going to try this in my 6505+ combo. Thanks🙌🏾
I was surprised also at the time... interesting stuff for sure...
It works!
I dug a couple out of my tube box gen e 5751 put in my little supro super wow the tone is improved no end gain cleaner smoother oh I brought mine 6 years ago 12.50 each the price on ebay is mad now nos gen e 5751 is a great match for my amp and pocket
Thanks for the info on your experiences with the 5751... and others should take note about this tube... thanks for watching...
The black amp sounded more raspy and high pitched. So much more annoying than the blue/purple amp!?!. I'd definitely go with the first amp you played. Might be change of camera view and the mic on the video recorder picked up on the tone differently! Thanks fir the review.
The black was the original and that amp can be very aggressive - hence the 5751 tube change to show the difference. I'm sure other things contributed but there was a clear difference. Stay Safe!
I had a Blackstar two channel tube drive pedal a few years ago and swapped the 12AX7 for a 5751.
Thanks for the info... all useful for anyone reading this stuff... and stay safe.
The Browns ...and were you pleased that you made the swap? I’m interested, can you elaborate?
Another worthy point regarding the 5751, especially if using the JAN versions of either GE or Philips, is their longevity, and of course improved tonality + staging. I’ve personally used them for a long time in both my Marshall and Boogie. Each of those is 100+ . . Don’t like quiet 🤩
Thanks for this extra info! its all useful stuff and I'm sure many will read it.... thanks and stay safe
tonymckenziecom every little bit helps 🤘🏻
Stay at Home 🙏🏻
The black amp sounded like it was going through a room mic. What happened there? The blue one sounded great.
They both went through exactly the same equipment... and used the same settings... there was no 'direct' output on those two amps. The Black was brash for sure... stay safe.
It's got a ton more gain! It's louder! Probably overdrove the sm57 and mic preamp
Despite the nomenclature, the 5751 is inherently a more suitable, compatible lower-gain replacement than a 12AT7 for a lower-gain variant of a 9-pin 12AX7 tube. The 5751 is a lot more likely to sound good and musical in a circuit designed for 12AX7. And you can believe me because I've been building and modifying tube HiFi and guitar amps for over 20 years. And I have a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering. And I never lie. Oh, and I'm always right :o) 🤣
Ha I don't have any of those qualifications :) but I can tell the difference immediately just listening to them. Thanks for the post and for watching.
The blue/purple one sounded more "blues-ey", the black - more rock-ish. It's not only the distortion but the overall tone, which in the first case is darker and more rounded. I would suggest you level match them for such comparisons though as the louder sound may distort the playback in the viewer's headphones as well. Good suggestion though!
Yes I get it. I did try hard with those knobs etc. on the two amps but that was best I could muster for the video. The 5751 took away some of the 'edge' I think and felt a bit better, whereas the 12AX7 did push it further. Thanks for the info and thanks too for watching...
Yeah replaced the tubes in one of my preamps with 5751 to tame it a little. I like gain when I want it, but it was too much in that case.
Thanks for letting me know - and proves it works! Stay safe...
The black amp is way louder and has way more bite. Thanks for the video
Yes and thanks for watching this - I was surprised by how much different it was.
I Like to build my own amps for clean, I’m mostly a bass player. I like to use tubes with even less gain, especially in the phase inverter, tubes like 12AU7 or 6SN7.
Good points and thanks for listing what you recommend. It does surely make a difference and many guys should try these tubes... thanks and stay safe.
Hi, italian noob here. Does less gain mean same volume power anyway? Thanks for experimenting.
The preamp gainoutput obviously drives the main power tubes. They remain at whatever output they should be... but of course if you drive the output tubes less then they wont achieve the same 'output' but you will be hard presed to hear the difference... thanks for watching.
I thought the blue amp sounded much warmer and a bit cleaner . I prefer that fuller sounding distortion over The Black Amp, and what I thought was high gain and more compressed sounding .
Yes the amp by default is highly driven when you buy it. Great for me, but giving it thought I wondered what the 5751 might do to change things. There is a difference for sure so the overall outcome of the video is that the 5751 is worth a try if you have any amp with 12AX7 (ECC83) etc. Thanks for watching and for the post...
I have an older version of the fender 5150 III 50 watt head. I love the blue and green channel unfortunately they share the same controls. The volume drop going from clean green channel to the rhythm blue channel is not acceptable. I was hoping I could turn the red channel into a clean channel and use the blue channel as my distortion. Is that possible?
Well the 5751 tube reduces the drive a little. But amp techs likely can reduce the drive/volumes on the amp - sorry I don't really have much experience on the Fender amp so I don't mind admitting I'm not sure of amp mods for it. But great question and if anyone has an answer for MTTF that would be great to hear.
Check out Kruse Kontrol Amplification, they do a lot of mods and might be able to help.
It definitely improved things! It seemed like the recording level might be clipping though 🤔😊
I was a bit over on the recording of that I agree but it is possible to hear as you said. Thanks for watching...
Significant differences - 12ax7 had more trebly harshness - it was more “ painful” , 5751 had less gain but less frequency spikes , more balanced and “ musical” - at least to my ear- thanks for sharing experiment
If you get a chance do try it... I was quite surprised really... thanks for watching.
@@tonymckenzieofficial i have 2 , 5751 in my 6505 as we speak - less freq spikes and better quality gain! ( i did multiple experiments and did leave in 1 ,12ax7)
Ah good stuff... I like them too. Thanks...
Black amp 12ax7 more gain and more sizzle in the top. Pretty much my experience as well. I usually go for a 5751 when playing my les Paul’s and still wanting some clean headroom. Only downside is losing some chime in the top
The Brixton has so much gain it's unreal... so the 5751 in THIS amp does make sense really. An unusual amp for sure though and would I fit a 5751 in to a Marshall? Not really... and it's all subjective really. Interesting stuff though... and thanks - stay safe too!
the black one definetely kills the music :-) the blue one was without doubt more musical and coherent, thanks for the interesting comparisions:-) very helpful as i soon will try to tube roll in my hifi pre amp with 5751 instead of 12ax7 in v1 position, and have ordered GE black plates 3 mica ,the same spec tube for the v2 12at7,also buy a pair Sylvania black plate 50s 12av7 to test with, i would rather have a distortion free and coherent tone than a blasty nervous and distorted one cant wait to try it out :-) thanks again sincerely Ivan
You can replace other 12AX7's in the amp but I'm not too sure about the 'PI' one. And there are other tubes as Tommy on here has said also... always worth a go. I don't know the 12AV7 that you mentioned? Yes I thought the blue was best too :) Stay safe.
Tony, I have a VOX Night train 15W . Is a 5751 compatible ? I mean are there consequences in amp reliability when you make this swap . What I mean is aren’t these high gain amps designed for 12ax7 ? Will they be more likely to break using a different tube like 5751 ?
If you have a 12AX7 or ECC83 then its VERY likely you can try a 5751 tube. I did review a Vox night train some years ago and unfortunately I have been asleep since :) but if you have the 12AX7 tube or the ECC83 (basically the same) then try it. I doubt you will cause damage with a tube that is pretty much compatible in any case. As you might know inside a !"AX7 are basically TWO stages. Some makers on V1 only use one stage for example, while many 'modders' of original designs use the second stage of V1 to 'hot rod' the amp - to drive the amp more with effectively 'extra' stages of gain. I have tried 5751 tubes in a number of amps and never had any issue. I can't say every amp is like that, but my guess is most by far would test fine. Great question... and thanks for watching.
I know the 5751 reduces gain but does it also slightly lower the volume of the amp?
I did not really notice volume reduction in any meaningful way... Thanks for watching.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Thanks for your response. I did put one of these in an EVH LBX (the original black and white one) and, I must say, am quite pleased with the results. No volume reduction, unfortunately, but it gave a much better taper to the gain knob on both channels. I actually got a pretty decent clean from the blue channel with the gain way down (about at 1/2 up). Now I wonder if I should put one in the V2 slot as well to see if that will reduce the gain even further. I'll keep you updated if I do. I really like the results so far.
Hey that's a great point and one I certainly did not consider... yes do let me know how it goes... and thanks for watching.
I would like to try this with a JCM2000 TSL122 combo amp similar to the nice red "head" version behind you in the video. Should I do the swap with both V1 and V2 to affect the crunch and lead channels, or in this case would i just look at changing V2 since the clean channel is already quite clean? Also how do you know which tubes are V1 and V2?
I believe the TSL100 122 is the combo? I would try it in V1 first. If it has too much reduction then flip it to V2 instead and try it there. It should be fine in either place. On the tubes (download the manual) check the manual and they are shown in it... the manual is here: www.manualsdir.com/manuals/114710/marshall-electronic-tsl100-tsl122.html and let me know if it works for you... stay safe.
Thanks I ll do that!
FYI.... I tried in v1 first... it made the clean channel too clean ( lost the Marshall character) but seemed to help the crunch and lead channels some. I swapped the 5751 to v2 and it was great.. clean channel character restored, and crunch and lead channels much nicer! I love it! Thanks.
Good info - I'll certainly bear that in mind on Marshall gear... thanks and stay safe.
Very noticeable the black amp has appreciably more gain than the purple one.
A very useful tip that you can reduce the gain with a valve change without
losing the tonal qualities of these fabulous amps. Great video as usual Tony,
thanks for the painstaking way you go about these reviews, much appreciated.
Black distorted the mic a little but you can still hear the difference OK. It is surprising just how much difference the re was really. Thanks.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Yes,that shows it had more gain!
Internet had issues re DNS over about three hours just... its back now. Stay safe Steve...
@@tonymckenzieofficial Ah I see, You too Tony.
Absolutely a huge difference. I much prefer the tone with the 5751's installed. It was a much more pure tone and less raspy. I have also owned that amp.. its a snarling little beast. Thanks Tony I hope you and family are well
Agreed. Ah you owned a Brixton... not many of us around :) Indeed it IS snarlier for sure with so much drive on it hence the idea about the 5751. Thanks and stay safe.
The black one had a harsher sound to my ears. I like the Blue sound ... smoother. Good vid. Keep the hands clean eh !
I liked the blue one better too... :) stay safe dude...
Thank you😎👍🏼
Exactly the answer I was looking for!
Took apart for cleaning a custom made amp and noticed two tubes in it weren’t exactly as labeled to be there. Had me worried some orangutan had gotten a hold of it….lol
The other tube is a GB-6201 replacing a 12AT7…. Any thoughts?
Original lineup:
4- 6L6
2- 12AT7
1- 12AX7
1- 7025
Mod:
4- 6L6
2- GB 6201
1- 5751
1- 7025
Great Demonstration, much appreciated.
😎👍🏼🎶
Glad it helped! and I did not know that tube, but I checked and here's the answer: Sylvania 12AT7 GB-6201 gold pin preamp driver tube basically a 12AT7 but old one. Maybe they wanted to get very clean with the amp by using the 5751 - it does make a difference especially if you have a 12AX7 in there and switch that out for the 5751. Thanks for watching.
@@tonymckenzieofficial
Thanks again😎👍🏼
Now I can breathe easy with a little more confidence and knowledge.
🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶
Escuse me do you know if I are any difference between use a tubes with different gain than ones with the same gain??? I bought separately two tubos, But I don’t know if can I use them like this or maybe those can affect my sound quality one is gain A: 94.7 gain B 97.5 and the other is gain A: 104.4 GainB 94.1.
Should be OK....
Tony, have you tried the AT7 or the AU7?
They are good as well for better cleans.
Hi Tommy, do you know the reduction levels of those two? the 5751 is 30%? And hey... stay in and be safe Tommy. It's really mad out there.
tonymckenziecom the AT7 is 20-30% and the AU7 is cleaner. I love them both. The AU7 is totally unforgiving and used for Reverb or trem circuits.
OK I'll take a look at those... thanks Tommy....
The blue 5751?
Correct! and stay safe.
2nd black one is clipping the Mic. in overdrive
I can't disagree but that's the only other piece of video I have... oh well... Thanks for watching and stay safe.
tonymckenziecom no problem . And definetly in real life it sounds so much better than in my headphones on youtube.
Thats that ! Love your chanell . keep it up !
Thanks for watching Janis...
Really helpful. Thank you
Well thanks and thanks for watching.
Ive been hatin my ax7 so Ive been lookin for aw7 or a ay7 im lookin for that sing not harsh clip
Even AT7? maybe...
I've been using an exh ay7 lately. about 20 dollars usa. really good .
Huge difference in harmonics. The power section gets to sing with less preamp gain.
I agree... the 5751 tube seemed better to me too. Thanks for watching.
Hello! Any suggestion for Marshall Origin 20H ( head) ? 5751 in V1 position or V3 poistion (Phase Inverter) ? Thanks
If you want to 'tame' the amp a little fit the 5751 in V1. Don't bother putting it in the PI. It will change the sound a little but you might like it better. Or indeed a 12AT7 works with less drive too. The 5751 seemed to sound better in this amp to me. Let me know if you try it and what you thought Antonio. Thanks and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial I will do Tony. I've ordered the head as soon I will get I will try 5751 in V1 and I let you know
I can’t stand amps that break up at a low volume, especially when the preamp is on 3.5 and below, it drives me crazy. I have as my old Marshall my stock Marshall Major 200w head, no preamp, which you really have to turn up to 5 and above to start hearing the slightest amount of breakup... Even the new Marshall 1959 heads are waaay more distorted than the originals. If you wanted gain back in the day you either used a treble booster or you got the amp modified, PERIOD, and it still wasn’t distorted or crunchy. It just had punch, and tone for days. Today amps are so distorted that you loose whatever character the amp has and you definitely can’t hear any of the woody-ness of your guitar.
Even Randy Rhodes used a distortion + with his 1959 head. That’s why his signature head is bullshit, his head was fckn clean man.
You gotta start with a clean palette IMHO, you might have to try 10 distortion pedals before you find the one you like, but I can guarantee you that you will have your OWN sound, not the same sound everyone else does.
As far as the two Bogner’s I get what your trying to do and I’m hipper, but I would love to hear them both with the volume on 10 and the preamp dialed in from zero. But you have got the right idea, not enough guitar players experiment with different tube types...they should, they just might be surprised. Thanks for the heads up on the tube, I’m gonna try it on a couple of overly distorted amps I have.
The Bogner is an amp with barely any tone stack and I believe designed to be dramatic :) The 5751 is a very useful tube re 30% less drive. I'm with you on the Marshall gear (did you check my recent series on those?). As Tommy said somewhere on here the 12AT7, 12AU7 are also contenders... stay safe.
randy ferri excellent points, my favourite amp was a modified 50 watt Fender Tremolo head. The old fellow I bought it from had pulled out the trem, speed and depth hardware and replaced it with a preamp. It would go from super clean to warmly broken up overdrive that was smoother than silk. I had a spinal cord injury and that cost me the use of my hands, fingers-“fine motor skills”-I sold it, (and the Marshall 4*12 cab it pushed through), to a friend for a song. In hindsight, that was a terrible mistake! I’ve since taken up using a slide on the guitars I kept and would love to have that amplifier back. Sometimes you get perfect "tone", but it takes quite a chase to find it. I really enjoyed reading your post, thanks for sharing it.
Hey Randy. Great point. I agree with you. I was all Marshall back in the day. Even the original 25/50 jubilee Broke up early and that was back in 87’. That’s how I wound up with a bunch of cleaner smaller amps that gave me a much later break up. I settled in with a Fender 68’ Deluxe reverb. It’s got all the cleans on one side and a bassman tone circuit. I get all my breakup from a good MATCHED Fuzz and MATCHED OD/Boost. That’s it.
Het Tommy I watched a video this morning about an ex fender guy and how he took a reissue deluxe reverb and made it like the original. A very informative video - he did not say exactly what he did, but he did show the amp that they modified and played a bit at the end. It's on YT somewhere...
tonymckenziecom That’s cool. I have a stock 68’. Nothing was needed.
What about the 12 wd7 in v3?
?? I don't think I have that in there? Maybe I should look, or of not then try one :). Thanks for the info.
Does the 5751 tube also mellow the tone a little? Prosumably Tony the overall volume of the amp is lower,? So you could drive the power amp tubes harder for breakup?
Yes I think ot sort of rounds it off a little... DNS trouble this
interesting .. the difference between them for me was how bright and brittle the 12ax7 sounded compared to the 5751. I've never heard of a 5751, where can you get them and what amps are they usually used in? thanks
The 5751 is readily available even today but the older ones cost more... typically the 5751 for modern ones is similar price to 12AX7. Stay safe...
Very difficult to tell online but I thought the black one sounded a little more alive, there again I might change my mind if I experimented with it on my own with various drive pedals.
It would be great if you ever get opportunity to review the 5150 Van Halen signature head at some point 👍
Well the idea of the video is to make guys think about other pre-amp tubes and it might be that they did not even know you can do that. On the 5150 its all down to what I have or can borrow for a short time. If I get one then it gets reviewed... unlikely Eddie will 'pop around' and loan me his any time soon. But hey Eddie... if you're listening :) Stat safe.
I put a 12AY7 in my V1 and V2 in my Mesa Nomad 100. I did it to lower the gain a bit on my amp..
Exactly... sometimes its a good idea :) Stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Thanks, it is hard to believe this has happened world wide. God Bless us all to get through this.
OH I know, it's like watching one of those B type movies... and we're the stars in it! Horrible situation, but I also think there will be more to follow. Seems everyone (governments) walks while it really needs a sprint!. Thanks.
An AX7A is rated at 100 typical factory spec for total preamp gain in V1
AT7A (5751) rates 63 AY7A rates 45
the AT, AY 5751 all allow more headroom, smoother volume increase can go to 6-7 with a Blues Deluxe or Deville at clean preamp volume, much better tone for Blues, jazz, any one of the three is adequate
With the AX7A you can't run those amps at 3-4 without earplugs or losing small bar gigs or church
Great info and thanks for posting it! And thanks for watching.
Is it worth trying a 5751 in a Marshall 1959HW? Which current production 5751 is recommended?
Hi Matthias, Well you could do that, but that will LOWER the gain of the amplifier. In the case of the 1959HW I have I would want to increase it myself... but maybe that's what you are looking for? Everyone does not always want more :) Thanks... and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Hi Tony, thanks for your answer! I'm just curious if low gain crunch would sound better than with the stock V1 tube. Maybe I will order one and try, they're not expensive. Stay safe too!
I changed my preamp tubes for jj, low gain, in my DSL1. I wanted more clean headroom, it did work out, I play anything from shadows to Gary Moore. I might try the 5751, but you did not demo a clean sound with humbuckers. On Utube they always swap to a fender for cleans. I need to do it all with one guitar. P.s. I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work.
Sorry I did not demo the 'clean' sound. The amp is generally a very highly driven amp (Bogner Brixton) and the object for me was to reduce that a bit. It does work though and should help. Try it and see if it is enough... 12AT7 also reduces gain too... hope it helps and do let me know. Thanks for watching.
@@tonymckenzieofficial thanks Tony, I didn't say, but I'm 68 and have been playing since I was 10. I'm a big Marshall fan and met Jim a few times. Had my heads serviced at the Bletchley factory. Unfortunately I can't pick up anything heavy anymore. I do open Mic nights to keep my hand in. The Dsl1 is loud enough with my vintage 30 loaded cab, and if not di I to the pa. Most new amps have too much overdrive for me, lve blown a few big Fenders up so I stick with Marshall. I had one of the 1st 100 watt, master volume heads, it had a big clean sound with an SG2000, I had at the time. Working with Dave Berry and the cruisers. Hayho . Nidge.
Ha I'm similar age and I know what it can be like as we get older for sure. That MV if you still have it is worth good money these days - I had them too but now only have the reissue... great amps.
Just the dilemma I have been wrestling with. Currently contemplating a 12AT7 in my PRS MT15 as only use the clean channel
There's no question that will help! The 12AT7 is lower output I think than the 5751 but just check it online. There are also some other 12**7 tubes that are low out and compatible. Hey let me know if you find one that really works for the MT15... that's a very driven amp. Stay safe.
Seems like I once had a japanese hifi 12aw7 that I put in my marshall and it was so singin and less harsh
Guys don't consider these similar tubes much but the differences can be cool... thanks and stay safe.
That was not even close. Im wondering, if the Black amp was clipping mics, or speakers or what. It was waaay over the top. The Blue was very nice, tight, chunky sound, The Black was all over the place, with very strange clipping (probably mic/recording preamp clipping).
Imo, tubes are best tested at 1 tube amps, like Fender Champions and similar. If someone goes to you, to say "all 12AX7 sounds the same", lets try it first with such amp. Not to talk about 5751, 7025, 10AU7s and so on.
Good video, thank you.
I do believe the black amp DID appear to have 'more' of everything and although the settings were exactly the same (as far as could be determined) my reckoning is that the 12AX7 drove the power amp further than the power amp was driven in the 5751 tubed purple amp. This model amp has huge gain in it and I think really the 5751 'tamed' the amp just a little... and that was really the emphasis of the video. Thanks for all the info and your post - Ha... don't think all 12AX7 sound the same either - I have tried so many different tubes... for example on the H&K Grandmeister 36 I specifically flipped the preamp tubes out and fitted different brand to quell the overly toppy tone of the original tubes here: ua-cam.com/video/I7UxJ8Rb19A/v-deo.html where you can see out came those standard ones... Thanks for watching.
I find it hard to believe that the mic placement wasn't changed between the two clips. I can hear a LOT more "room" in the second one. The second one actually sounds more like the mic on your computer or phone than a close-mic'd amp.
Only thing changed was the tube! it did change dramatically I have to say. Thanks.
I think the blue one sounded better. The test would have been more scientific had you used the same amp for the preamp tube comparison.
Yes I could have done that, but honestly they are pretty much identical sounding when with the same setup. But a good point! I thought the blue was nicer sounding too :) Stay safe.
my mexican vibro champ clone is as old as some of some of you here but has obviously not decayed as bad.
:) well I can guess I'm past my sell by date but thankfully I have a wife that sees through all of that :) Hard to find one that would actually like me :) and my musical mess :)
Thanks Tony. Quite a bit if difference. Blue here.
Yes I think the blue is 'nicer' too :) Stay safe...
I have got the opposite problem :) Id like to make my cornford roadhouse more "gainy" without sticking OD pedal in front. There is already 12ax7 in v1. I was thinking about chinese 12ax7b, or old rft nos tubes. I heard the old nos tubes like to overdrive faster than new production 12ax7. Any other mods ideas i could try? Peace!
Not too easy... does it have a loop? I know this sounds silly but you could try putting a ts808 in the loop with the gain backed off... but the level high... alternatively look for a pedal like this: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seymour-Duncan-SFX-91-Pickup-Booster-V1-Clean-Boost-Guitar-Effect-Pedal-READ-/223923120552?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10 which I know will help... stay safe....
Try this one too: www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/12031312140432--tc-electronic-spark-line-booster?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhZTmgeS46AIVw7TtCh10MQo1EAQYAiABEgLo7_D_BwE it also has 26Db of CLEAN gain...
@@tonymckenzieofficial Yep it has a fx loop. Gonna try that sd pickup booster. Thanks!
@@petkopeet Hey, I think I mentioned to you about the Seymour clean gain pedal? It might be worth watching a new review I'm going to be doing some time this next week of that TC electronics pedal (that I linked to) that is exactly that pedal and I bought for about $49 (£38 or so) because of the comments I made at the time. Should be interesting and stay safe.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Thanks man! I recently bought a copy of mxr micro amp clean boost, and it performs preety darn good in front of preamp.
can i put three 5751 in the pre of my vox ac15? He has place for three 12ax7
If you have 12ax7 in there (check V1) then highly likely you could. Thanks and stay safe.
Pardon my duh but which one had the 5751?
The purple one...
Hi Tony, I prefer the Blue amp; It was far less harsh and a lot more warmer and rounded than the Black amp. The difference was night and day.
Nice mod Tony. 👍🏻
Yes I liked the blue amp better too.... stay safe.
SanAndFe you’re not kidding! Ooh, that black Bogner was painfully..."tinny/trebly", my ears are still ringing.
So what tube will increase the gain?
Good question! Anyone know higher gain than 12AX7 that is compatible? Stay safe.
Black amp sounded more brittle
Just a tube change... it was surprising how much it did change. Thanks for watching.
5751 is a great tube in a pro junior
Thanks for the tip Klaus...
You could make the black one sound just like the blue one by rolling off the guitar volume a little.
Hi Kalvin, that's a really great comment that I had to think about... well at least for a moment! :) But you can't make the blue one sound like the black one with that 5751 tube in there :) Ha even as I type - that really is a great comment. Stay safe.
Hi @@tonymckenzieofficial - and thanks. I guess it's hard to differentiate 'drive' (pre-amp distortion) and volume, because the Black amp is just so much louder anyway. Notwithstanding you're not making videos for me specifically, I'd have liked to see what happened when you volumed down on the guitar... I'd expect that 'cleaning up' the sound of the Black amp would require more decrease in guitar volume.... and a completely different sound from the Blue amp (less volume decrease to get clean) because it would have less preamp gain. I guess I'd like to also see how much extra master/output volume you could dial in to get the same volume, but cleaner out of the Blue as well... not just in reference to these types of high gain amps, but with a view to adding the lower gain preamp (V1) tube to e.g. a Deluxe Reverb do it stays even cleaner when turned up loud... i.e. to make it even more responsive to dirt pedals because of more headroom.
@@MikeSadlerAU Hi Mike... great comments and I should have done a bit more on camera for sure. Those two before the change were exactly the same BTW. The Brixton IS a very aggressive amp with virtually no tone stack to speak of IMO and just a couple of switches to contend with. Great point on the 'pedal' use too and I think that would make a difference. While the gain is reduced with the 5751 tube it's not a divide by ten situation but you can tell. I could come back to this again later and who knows I might but not currently as work is pressing and I'm so short of time right now, but great points and thanks for watching. Stay safe too.
@@tonymckenzieofficial Thanks for the response! Maybe the ball's in my court now... I guess I should *just buy the bloody valve* and try it in my '65 DRRI (before and after)... though it's a very different amp to those brutes you have, they principle should hold true... reducing the preamp gain *should* allow a cleaner sound at higher volume before breakup. If I do, I'll vid and post. You stay safe out there too... here in AU it's pretty easy by being sensible; elsewhere it seems like some sick roulette wheel. Break a leg!
Ha the penny only just dropped on your screen name :) Yep buy a valve they are cheap enough. Yes it would be great to know what you think of the 5751 tube. There are others with even less gain, but that was an older one I had lying around... worth a try in any case.
wow. just observing... while the tube difference is noticeable. this helped me otherwise: I was looking at the very amp for purchase, and it sounded like crap, either way... Thanks!.
The purple one was tamer... and that worked quite well in real life. But also remember that there are a number of switches on the Brixton that affect the tone in a big way, so a bit unfair on the amp from this recording... check my full review (inside and out) on my channel if you want to know lots more about the Bogner Brixton here: ua-cam.com/video/ZCgWXGNDciw/v-deo.html and hope it helps... thanks. Stay safe...
tonymckenziecom One of the reasons I subscribed to your channel was that you took-what must be a LOT of-time to reply to the many comments you receive. You’re the ‘real deal', Tony. Thanks very much for sharing your videos, and replying to the questions et cetera...👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks for the sub. I'm not always right as this general subject covers so many skills overall. But I do believe that if someone takes the time to write something on a video, then at the very least they deserve a reply. The time these days is not as bad as it once was and is manageable now (especially in this difficult time with the virus thing - I have weeks of basically nothing to do - on lock down) but I guess I'll make some more videos :) Thanks... and stay safe right now...
big difference to me... way better in the blue amp
Thanks for watching and the opinion... all useful stuff and its surprising how much the difference was really. Stay safe.
I need a marshall mine was stolen. Id like to build a jcm 900 and or a clone of a silvertone medallion hifi modded into a amp head
I built a Marshall JTM45 (just 30 watts) and that's a really great sounding amp best with reactive load even at 30w.
They sound completely different. 5751 wins the game
I thought so also. Original is more shrill. Stay safe.
gearheads would consider those tube cardboard boxes to be worth more than gold.
Ha I know what you mean... just a box to me. Good tubes though :) Stay safe.
Firstly, get your guitar in tune lol.
The blue amp sounded way tighter and more articulate. The black one sounded like a mess.
Ha I'm always getting out of tune :) so apologies for that. Sometimes its not OOT but over pressing on very light strings depending on which guitar I'm using. Yes the two are quite different really thanks to that 5751 tube... Thanks for watching.
Definitely the blue sounds way better to me.
And me too :) stay safe too.
tonymckenziecom thanks. You too.
The 5751s sound great. The 12 ax7's are not to my liking.
Yes the 5751 is an interesting tube and thanks for watching.
I ll take the 5751s.....going to try those in a Marshall JVM 205H when the shop is back up and running....
They should be fine... just ensure you get decent stuff and not some 50 year old tube they insist is OK ;-) Stay Safe.
Prefer the blue amp with 5751.
Yes I would say that most guys do. The Bogner Brixton has huge gain and is toppy (no real tone controls to speak of) and the 5751 smooths things a bit. Thanks and stay safe.
wow blacl amp louder
Indeed. The sound is different too...
Go to 4:00
You’re welcome
Thanks...
Guid fegs! Tune that LP!!!
Ha I'm not perfect... :) Thanks and stay safe.
The 5751 had the better overall tone. Not as sharp as the other.
Yes I agree - it was a 'smoother' thing and a little less drive. Thanks for watching.
Too much gain is a pain.
Exactly... so the 5751 can dampen things down a little :) Thanks for watching.
I hate to breake it to ya mate but you’re guitar needs tuned bad
That's fine, sometimes it does... thanks.
Neither sounded good but, anyway . . .
That's OK - it was a test about the change in tone and how the tube affects the amp. Thanks for watching.
.. but one sounded less good....
:) exactly...