I really wish companies would spend more time advertising the cool features of their quartz movements with the same amount of hype as mechanical movements. It's weird how a lot of movements like the Precionist or HAQ ones are hidden away and not really talked about on product pages. I remember I was on the watches subreddit and people were digging into the background of the movement inside a Tissot Seastar, and how it was actually a HAQ movement but Tissot literally doesn't talk about it or mention it anywhere!
Exactly. Even now, nobody really knows that many of those little Seiko Dolce gold dress watches from the 1980s are HAQ. I bought one about four months ago, set it then, just checked it, and it’s still bang on. I think they were spec’d at +-20spy. Under $200, readily available. But small.
It actually goes much deeper than that. The crystals cannot be trimmed 100% accurate to 32768 Hz (or whatever their base frequency might be), so they make them slightly faster on purpose, and in the factory, they measure a constant for every watch on a oscilloscope, or similar counter. This gets set into every watch as a correction factor. You'll never see it happen, but every hour, or few hours the quartz watch actually delays one of the seconds by that much to get it accurate again. Even the very best ones do this, albeit less regularly perhaps. On most quartz watches it can even be changed with a small potentiometer. But its incredibly hard to regulate accurately yourself, because you have to wait a month or so every time to see the effect of your adjustments. So, its best left alone. You're not going to do better than the factory.
I have a plug-in alarm clock with a backup lithium cell and automatic time change for DST. It gains several minutes a year because its quartz crystal oscillates too fast. I’ve had it for maybe 12 years and it seems to be getting slightly faster over time.
32768 Hz quartz crystals are typically trimmed (or tuned) by laser during the manufacturing process to be 32768 Hz. Yes, they may end up being off by a fraction of a Hertz which can be compensated for by tuning the watche's oscillator during the watch manufacturing process (if the watch manufacturer desires to make a more accurate watch). P.S. an oscilloscope is not a counter (although many scopes do have that function built in)...
I really wish they made that black Bulova chrono in a smaller version. I tried it on my wrist and its a huge watch in every dimension. I would buy a 38mm or under version in a heartbeat.
Except the movement itself is 40.5 mm, so it wouldn't fit into your 38mm case. Bulova has done a great job of making the 43mm case efficiently wrap around the movement.
They do have women’s watches that look more or less unisex, and those are smaller. Don’t know if those include any chronographs in a smaller size: possibly not.
I have a Grand Seiko SBGV245 with the 9F quartz movement. I set it to atomic time and it remains accurate to the second +/- 0 per 6 months until I have to change it for DST twice a year. Only downside is the battery only lasts 2-3 years. I use it to set the time on my mechanical watches.
My latest Seiko Prospex Solar Diver is running better than -1 seconds per month, or around 10 seconds per year. For a movement that is only guaranteed to within 15 seconds per month, I regard that as outstanding accuracy. It is up there with the Bulova, The Citizen or Grand Seiko at several times the cost. Of course a radio controlled movement would have zero error over a year.
I'm a quartz guy, less rabbit hole than non imho which works for my time and wallet, the Oceanus line is my grail territory, but my collection of Casio and Timex with a few others splashed in keeps me happy for now. I spin a wheel on my phone that chooses which watch to match with which strap for the day. Very fun combos I wouldn't have thoight to try... Anyway, I Love it when you visit Urban Gentry, you guys are both great at what you do, have an Awesome day!
Thanks. I have a long lasting aversion against the 1 second clicking that kept me awake at night and kept me from buying quartz watches. Now I see there are others and will be more open to quartz watches again.
Thanks for the explanation Mark. I knew the Precisionist from Bulova was different and more accurate than other quartz watches, but didn't really know why. I really like that chrono from Bulova!
Great video Marc, i wish there wasnt so much snobbery against Quartz, i have some Autos, Omegas, Christopher Ward, but i love my Citizens, G-Shock and Pagani Desighn Moonwatch too.
It would be cool if you could do this again but explain the idea behind certain quartz movements like the Seiko 7548/7C movements which, from my understanding, are basically an automatic movement that has been adapted to quartz. And so people often say they are very good because they can be serviced and adjusted in a way that more contemporary quartz movements cannot. Not sure if that’s true or not, but it would be neat to see the difference. I have a 7548 id be willing to send along for the video lol!
More info if you want to nerd out: Accuracy in Quartz oscillators is a culmination of things. Quartz crystal cut (XT or AT), the stability of the capacitors that makes up the resonant tank and the stability of the amplifier that makes up the oscillator.
As a retired engineer and adjunct faculty member of an engineering college, I would stress to my students the difference between precision and accuracy. I told them a voltmeter with a 10 digit display could precisely measure an incorrect value. I have an assortment of various movements in my collection. My Rolex Air King was never more than 2 secs off in six years. I would set it down overnight (crown up/down, dial up/down, etc.) in whatever position required to keep it within specs. The mechanical movements are truly highly engineered, but the quartz movements are light years ahead of the mechanical movement. My favorite watch is neither mechanical nor quartz, it's a Bulova 218 Accutron. I gifted myself that watch for my 30th birthday. That was in 1974. Fifty years later, I only wear it for special occasions. I've kept it in pristine, like new condition. (For my 80th birthday, I gifted myself a Tisas 1911 Commander size Carry 45.)
I have a number of Precisionist watches and love them. Bulova has tended to put them in large cases which is a bit off putting, but the Chronograph you showed is a marvellous watch which I also own. I also have a number of Maurice Lacroix quartz watches and they have lovely well built movements. I wish people saw the quartz for what it is, a marvel of technology!
I luv it when an engineer makes and sells watches because the engineering and science elainations of said timepieces are so good. Rock on,er time on, Island Watches!
Again, great presentation. Funny you should mention mechanical movements: I'm trying to prepare a few vintage Hamilton watches (1960s-70s vintage) for sale. both the dress watches beat at 18,000 mph, and, in spite of their age, both measures rather well on the ol' timegrapher, and in more than one position. By contrast, a Seiko 5 I bought used (loved the dial and case details) has a 21,600vph movement whose current operating state is "all over the place", likely due to a seriously-hard drop at some point. (The fact that I *did* recently buy a timegrapher might call my mental state somewhat into question, bu that's an entirely different matter.)
Very interesting video. The Bulova is a very impressive watch for the price. I’ve been into this hobby 6 years now and find myself turning to my Seiko quartz chronograph much more than all my other automatic watches these days. I appreciate the convenience of not having to keep resetting the time due to mechanicals stopping when you stop wearing them and also the far superior accuracy of quartz (which also means far less adjusting of the time)
@@dyslexicbien It’s actually an alarm chrono - model SNAF09P1 which has been discontinued. Lovely green dial with gold hands and markers. A UA-cam channel called 2stime did a good visual only video of it a few years ago.
@@lewisham Yes buying watches although of course watches are practical tools but I’ve bought too many over the past few years. Maybe an addiction is a better word than hobby.
Basically, people need to think about the hands just like a display. They totally belie what's going on in the circuitry of the movement. It's just how the designer of the movement decides to sample the beat of the crystal and update that more often as a position change on the hands. The best example is a solar quartz. Certain solar watches stop the hands entirely in darkness to save power, but internally they're still keeping time until you bring it back into the light. A brilliant watch and learn Marc 👍
Just for fun, you might explain just how clock accuracy is determined. It might be interesting to many to note that the traditional average and standard deviation do not apply to clocks. An explanation of the Allan Variance method could be very enlightening. Cheers.
I have a Citizen eco-drive (BN0085-01E) which runs at +8 secs per year. Amazing for such an inexpensive watch - I realize that I got lucky with a particularly well made unit. Much respect to Citizen though.
Thanks for a very informative video Mark. I have a1980 7548 0N3451 Quartz Seiko (looks like an SKX009) and I find this extremely accurate. I’ve been enjoying wearing it instead of my auto watches lately. Basically set and forget.
@@islandwatch haha true 😭 watch and learn is nothing new. I just hear your engineering background come out in this one and I loved it. quartz resonators and piezo electric effect are really cool. Maybe you can talk about atomic clocks and how the watches that sync with them all works, unless that's been covered!
Bulova Precisionist is an amazing technology. Sadly, my Bulova Sea King with Precisionist movement died on me recently. However, my Bulova Lunar Pilot with Precisionist movement is still going strong!
I own a Lunar Pilot for more tahn 1 year now and i have to say it was a great purchase, extremely accurate, you can trust the tme it says it is, it's a really set anf forget watch.
I never realized that the LP was actually a precisionist movement, as well. I knew they both ran at 262kHz but I didn't think that made them both precisionists. I bought another precisionist just to get that super smooth sweep that it does. Great watches, great company! thanks for the video!
Very cool video Marc, and great explanation of everything. As you talked about the big battery in the Bulova, I'm wearing a G-Shock Mudmaster GG-1000 right now which holds 2 batteries! It's a 1 tick per second seconds hand but in the year I've owned it, it's gained around 15 seconds and I just recalibrated it today.
I wish you would've talked about how whether or not the seconds hand hits the marks on the dial has absolutely nothing to do with the movement's accuracy.
I understood your demonstration without any accuracy in my mind but it s fascinating, love it. I have a strange question here: is it possible that quartz watches being mostly non sweeping a cultural bias? Like people, except watch nerds, kinda freak out looking at time like a fluid unstoppable movement rather than a more reassuring ticking.
Mostly battery is my guess, starting a motor is much more demanding than running it for a little longer. Moving the seconds hand 3x per second probably takes nearly as much energy as moving it once per second for 3 seconds. Many analog quartz watches now stop moving the hands entirely when no movement has been sensed for 72 hours, then they spin the hands into position when you wake them up. Based on seiko “kinetic” movements that do this you could probably get a general idea how little the crystal is actually using, but I think not moving the hands makes the battery last at least 10x longer
Iv'e been moving into the quartz side lately, the Bulova Jet Star Precionist is on my radar at the moment. It's not that i wouldn't buy another automatic but it would have to be pretty special for me to do so.
I had a lot of trouble getting a cheap thermocompensated quartz watch. I finally used two cheats: 1) buy a unisex-looking watch sold as a women’s model 2) look for something with an ETA Precidrive movement. A few Certina watches actually have “Precidrive” written on the dial. That really helps. Tissot and others seem ashamed of it. A quartz COSC-certified watch will be thermocompensated, though not necessarily cheap. I have a couple of Precisionist watches and the motion of the seconds hand is cool but they don’t act like thermocompensated watches and I assume they’re not. Usually not accurate enough.
I love my two Precisionists. The other watches in my collection are 6 manuals and 10 Quartz. I have noticed some of my cheaper Quartz are not super accurate but the nicer ones are. My mechanicals need resetting several times a day.
I have a multitude of quartz and mechanical watches, love them both. But I cannot imagine a single advantage of a quartz second hand ticking more than once per second. To my eye, doesn’t even look “more accurate”.
Great video, full of stuff we like to hear about. Love my Bulova lunar pilot! It's in my short list of 'daily' wears. I really enjoy the mechanicals, the movements have always been a source of fascination for me. But the no hassle ready to go of quartz watches keeps them on my wrist a lot. My fav lately is Tissot prc chrono, most legible / easy to read watch I have. Looks great, feels great. Thanks lots for another great watch and learn, this was especially informative IMHO!
I have several Citizen Ecodrive watches and they are quite accurate. I've set them against an atomic clock and they are good for 3 seconds a month accuracy, pretty good even by quartz standards.
I get it, thanks for this helpful video. Question: why do quartz watches often have second hands that move at one second intervals, or possibly a bit more rapidly, while quartz clocks have second hands that seem to sweep smoothly?
Those are running on an ac current and are regulated by the frequency of the electrical grid. A quartz watch uses a stepper motor one once per second to save battery. You could get a smoother sweep on a quartz but it would drain the battery. I wonder how long the Hemel battery lasts compared to others. Maybe you are taking about different wall clocks
Because quartz clocks that have continuous sweep are powered by AA cells, which have FAR more power than button batteries. Still, though, DC wall clocks with continuous sweep do not have long batt power
@@islandwatch thanks for adding to my answer! I was talking about really old school clocks, which work in a similar way to outlet timers (and are not quartz)
That's an important and critical point about the Bulova's Precisionist movements: The energy cost of having all this extra work means larger batteries with shorter lifespans, and the larger case sizes to accommodate those larger batteries. There are going to be trade-offs between mechanical and electronic power consumption: A digital LCD is the "sweet spot" for efficient timekeeping because has no moving parts. However, liquid crystal displays are function over form (they're not beautiful).
Great video Marc! I love the Bulova precisionist movement but just wish they had a WAY better design team. I purchased a used Bulova Precisionist 98B267 several years ago, but ended up selling it as the design - once I had it my hands - didn't win me over after a day or two; kind of boring. It was a simple 3-hand but man...the second hand ticked at 16 ticks/second and was so close to a smooth sweep that it was almost imperceptible to see the individual ticks and I would just stare at it for 20-30 seconds several times a day as it was a bit mesmerizing. It also helped that it was a reasonable 42mm and a solid every day watch if you liked the style.
Quartz is unfortunately unloved by so many in the watch world. The precisionist movement (back when it was 10 seconds a year!) Seiko 9F, Citizen Chronomaster, and the hand built Yamagata Casio’s are truly phenomenal watches. I wish more companies would make really impressive quartz movements. Great video 👍
I wish more quartz watches had this feature I've found in YES watches (the Equilibrium and V7) - you can input an offset in a menu and make your watch more accurate.
I have by now collected 3 HAQ watches, a Bulova Precisionist, a Longines Conquest VHP GMT, and a Grand Seiko GMT. The Longines is the most accurate. The Bulova looks cool with its 16 beats per second.
You could mention thermocompensation as the best way to increase accuracy of the quartz. My ETA 251.264 with normal 32 kHz to this day gained about 1, maybe 1.5 sec since February 2022, when the crown was pulled out last time.
@@e28forever30 It has sort of quick set date on 1 crown position where it doesn't hack (GMT-like jump hour hand). So no reason to stop and reset the movement.
my only nickpick about my lunar pilot is that for the same 15 positions ob every hour the minute hand isn't aligned the same way, but goes back to following the minute indices after that time. wonder if it's a gear issue.
Nice one Mark. Disassembled an inexpensive quartz clock a couple of weeks ago , could see the tuning fork and it had a small magnet at its centre that drove a set of (plastic) cogs for Second ,Min and Hour. i presume that must be the absolute cheapest type of quartz movement? (:
Anyone who knows anything about radio signal generation knows about quartz oscillators which existed a long time before quartz watches. I often wonder if radio engineers who had somehow become involved in the watch industry were first to see how an electronic oscillator could control watch timing. There is a crossover with Seiko Spring Drive too. The first time I got the basic explanation of how it works I immediately thought of velocity feedback in servo mechanisms. Thanks for the info Marc.
"I often wonder if radio engineers who had somehow become involved in the watch industry were first to see how an electronic oscillator could control watch timing." Not exactly, but sort of. Since period and frequency are basically the same thing (just the reciprocal of each other), the quartz oscillator as a precision frequency standard and a timebase was invented by the same guy, physicist Walter Cady. Quartz based timing equipment was in use well before quartz's introduction into watches. That was more a matter of figuring out how to make the technology sufficiently small/light/low powered. Getting it into watches required microelectronics technology to mature to a point where it would be practical. The guys who took the microelectronics technology and demonstrated that it could be used in watches were watch guys. Although it would be more accurate to say that they were a group of researchers/scientists/engineers working in a watch research and development organization. www.quartzwristwatch.org/history-of-the-first-quartz-wristwatch
that door knob protector to the 4 o clock of your logo sticker, needs a 4 o clock blue hand painted (to resemble your logo) and then you can retire the sticker.@00:32😂
To paraphrase the late Deng Zheoping....." it does not matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice"....so if a watch clicks or ticks, it does not matter so long as it's accurate. And 262 kHz is bloody accurate, better than any clockwork driven mechanism.
How is the temperature coefficient of the crystal dealt with? I recall radio transmitters had their crystals in little chambers called "ovens" which kept the crystal at a constant temperature of around 125° F. Even so, I noticed that AM radio stations on the same channel typically had a beat frequency of 3 to 15 Hertz, which meant the inaccuracy was around ten parts per million (≈25 seconds/month). I wonder how crystals could be made more accurate over a wide range of temperature.
Electronics engineer here. It doesn't make any difference what the frequency of a crystal is. All "common off-the-shelf" crystals are +/-20 to +/-50 ppm. That goes for every frequency, whether it is 32,768 Hz (the most common watch crystal), the 262,144 Hz in the Bulova or a 10 MHz crystal. The frequency is divided down to whatever step rate is required for the second hand and but the accuracy remains the same. An electronic temperature compensation can be desgined-in, adjusting the crystal frequency over temperature. Well designed, it can bring the accuracy down to 1 pmm. A well designed oscillator circuit also has a trimmer capacitor to adjust the frequency. But there will always be drift caused by ageing of the crystal. Translated to seconds per day or per month: +/-50 ppm equals 4.32 s/day +/-1 ppm equals 0.0864 s/day or 2.7 s/month. Long story short: you cannot judge the accuracy of a watch by simply looking at its crystal frequency. You need to know the accuracy specification of the crystal that's being used, if it is temperature compensated and if a trimmer is used to adjust the frequency to specification.
I have the lunar pilot and love it. It is not a precisionist though. According to bulova it is as accurate though. I have been looking at some precisionist chronographs the last week. They tick 16 times per second so appear to sweep rather than tick. They can also time to 1 thousandth of a second where the lunar pilot only times to 1 twentieth of a second.
Thing is, highest quality quartz movements compensate for temperature differences and whatnot. While quartz in general are quite accurate, there are differences among them.
Hi mark I have a question.. quartz is more reliable accurate and cheaper than automatic, so why do navy and army often opt for the auto version? Like the gsar. Any ideas?
6:58 The weirdest thing I’ve ever heard about resonant frequencies is that there was, many years ago, a factory in, I think, France. They ventilated the shop floor with a huge fan, which turned very slowly. Workers started getting violently ill at the company and they realized that the fan, even though it was moving very slowly, was moving with the same resonant frequency as the workers’ guts! It was literally breaking up their intestines.
It’s too good a story for me to go read some factual article that debunks it. (It probably claims those workers were eating bad escargot from a food cart.)
I’ve never heard anyone, let alone everyone, say that a quartz movement that tics more times per second is what makes one more accurate. However, the only time I hear anyone talk about quartz accuracy is when I have searched UA-cam for how quartz watches work. Can someone give me an example of when they have encountered everyone being wrong about quartz accuracy?
People think that because a watch, like the precisionist, has a second hand that moves smoothly, it is automatically more accurate. That is not true. If you don't believe it, that's fine. I'm saying that most people do believe it. Sure, 'everyone' is hyperbole.
@@islandwatch my comment was too pugnacious. I’m actually never around anyone talking about watches in real life. I was wondering if this was more of a UA-cam watch reviewer thing or just casual watch conversations in day to day life.
A lot of people who don't know about watches will never believe that a $20 Casio at least twice as good as a $20,0000 Rolex, and more than likely closer to an order of magnitude better.
Hello! Frequency is not the best gauge of timekeeper accuracy. Rather, it is the quality factor of the timebase oscillator. Quality factor is essentially the number of free oscillations that the timebase can achieve before stopping. English engineer Douglas Bateman showed that there is a good correlation between timekeeper accuracy and the quality factor of its oscillator timebase. The quality factor of a mechanical watch is about 200, while quartz watches have quality factor going up to 100,000. For example, the most accurate pendulum clocks have frequency 1/2 Hz, but have similar accuracy to the best quartz watches, and have similar quality factor.
I have many casios, and they don't defer more than 10-15 seconds a year. I suppose casio understates it's accuracy so they don't have to deal with complains (and it's probably not only casio that does that)
Is bounce back considered bad? I’ve often wondered how to visually tell high quality vs low quality 1bps quartz ticks apart. Some seem to move snappy and fast, others slow, some bouncy and others firm. Etc
That's because the lower beat rate causes less wear and tear on the parts. Thus, all things equal, said watches will have a longer life. As a bonus, the oscillations of the balance wheel are more pleasing to the eye (open case back).
I picked up a Longines VHP GMT in the summer, super bit of kit +/- 5 seconds per year with some very clever technology, pity it’s being discontinued, although it was half price so good for me. Also the family have Certina Precidrives (one COSC, one not) these are +/- 10 seconds per year. Citizen calibre 0100 is the only more accurate watch than the longines but costs a whole lot more…running at 8.4 MHz
Yeah, but some people want to know if higher frequency makes more precise watch. Ignoring the running seconds, does 262kHz makes it more precise than 32 kHz quartz, and Citizen Chronomaster that works on 8,400 kHz is even more precise because of that frequency? I know there are compensators and what not to make it work better, but if we ignore all that technology, does the frequency makes more precise watch? I had a debate about that many times, I would like a professional opinion :D
Would be cool to do the math on how much the accuracy changes from when the battery is full and nearly empty in different quartz movements, as the frequency in the tuning fork will change as the voltage changes, and the lower voltage output of a more depleted battery makes the watch run slower, probably with a very unoticable amount. But enough for solar movements that stay topped off to get a average higher accuracy than their battery counterparts
@islandwatch yes, it's more towards when it gets quite low and falls below the voltage used to keep time, you get a somewhat noticeable change, it won't do anything as long as it can deliver the desired voltage. Measured with a multimeter on a few batteries and voltage is a pretty consistent output of the range of charge you will have most of the time. So, if calculated for, it would be minor, I'd assume.
@@AnirossaFWIW I recently had a battery die in a Vaer w/ an Aneriquartz 6130 HT movement. I’ve been tracking it long term and the last data point was at 250 days, three days before it died. There was no deference. It maintained +0.048 until it stopped completely. It maintained that rate over a two year span which was really surprising. I have many quartz watches that vary greatly just by wearing them.
I really wish companies would spend more time advertising the cool features of their quartz movements with the same amount of hype as mechanical movements. It's weird how a lot of movements like the Precionist or HAQ ones are hidden away and not really talked about on product pages. I remember I was on the watches subreddit and people were digging into the background of the movement inside a Tissot Seastar, and how it was actually a HAQ movement but Tissot literally doesn't talk about it or mention it anywhere!
Most people don't buy watch as an instrument, sadly. Brand and hype is more important than accuracy for them.
Exactly. Even now, nobody really knows that many of those little Seiko Dolce gold dress watches from the 1980s are HAQ. I bought one about four months ago, set it then, just checked it, and it’s still bang on. I think they were spec’d at +-20spy. Under $200, readily available. But small.
I'd kill to have more high quality quartz (and especially solar watches). I'd never own a mechanical if I could. Sadly few options with high quality.
This is a really good point, but I think it's because the market for quartz is just a different customer (mostly)
@@TheGreektrojan
Who needs HAQ when there are radio controlled watches?
It actually goes much deeper than that. The crystals cannot be trimmed 100% accurate to 32768 Hz (or whatever their base frequency might be), so they make them slightly faster on purpose, and in the factory, they measure a constant for every watch on a oscilloscope, or similar counter. This gets set into every watch as a correction factor. You'll never see it happen, but every hour, or few hours the quartz watch actually delays one of the seconds by that much to get it accurate again. Even the very best ones do this, albeit less regularly perhaps. On most quartz watches it can even be changed with a small potentiometer. But its incredibly hard to regulate accurately yourself, because you have to wait a month or so every time to see the effect of your adjustments. So, its best left alone. You're not going to do better than the factory.
I have a plug-in alarm clock with a backup lithium cell and automatic time change for DST. It gains several minutes a year because its quartz crystal oscillates too fast. I’ve had it for maybe 12 years and it seems to be getting slightly faster over time.
32768 Hz quartz crystals are typically trimmed (or tuned) by laser during the manufacturing process to be 32768 Hz. Yes, they may end up being off by a fraction of a Hertz which can be compensated for by tuning the watche's oscillator during the watch manufacturing process (if the watch manufacturer desires to make a more accurate watch). P.S. an oscilloscope is not a counter (although many scopes do have that function built in)...
I really wish they made that black Bulova chrono in a smaller version. I tried it on my wrist and its a huge watch in every dimension. I would buy a 38mm or under version in a heartbeat.
Maybe one day.
Except the movement itself is 40.5 mm, so it wouldn't fit into your 38mm case. Bulova has done a great job of making the 43mm case efficiently wrap around the movement.
They do have women’s watches that look more or less unisex, and those are smaller. Don’t know if those include any chronographs in a smaller size: possibly not.
Ah. Professor Marc returns. Always enjoy watching and learning. Thank you sir.
no problem
I have a Grand Seiko SBGV245 with the 9F quartz movement. I set it to atomic time and it remains accurate to the second +/- 0 per 6 months until I have to change it for DST twice a year. Only downside is the battery only lasts 2-3 years. I use it to set the time on my mechanical watches.
You are teaching me so much.
Thank you Mark.
My latest Seiko Prospex Solar Diver is running better than -1 seconds per month, or around 10 seconds per year. For a movement that is only guaranteed to within 15 seconds per month, I regard that as outstanding accuracy. It is up there with the Bulova, The Citizen or Grand Seiko at several times the cost. Of course a radio controlled movement would have zero error over a year.
that's awesome!
That's fantastic! What's the movement number? Thanks.
What solar diver it is?
You got a lime, in essence, you got lucky. You could easily buy another of the identical watch and it's 15 sec/month.
I’ve got a battery Seiko diver and it’s also running at better than -1 seconds per month! It’s the sbbn045.
I'm a quartz guy, less rabbit hole than non imho which works for my time and wallet, the Oceanus line is my grail territory, but my collection of Casio and Timex with a few others splashed in keeps me happy for now. I spin a wheel on my phone that chooses which watch to match with which strap for the day. Very fun combos I wouldn't have thoight to try... Anyway, I Love it when you visit Urban Gentry, you guys are both great at what you do, have an Awesome day!
I have the Oceanus T200. Two Rolexes and an IWC are in my safe box. I’ll probably sell the, some day.
I’ve got the Oceanus Manta S7000 with the 5701 movement. I’ve measured its accuracy at 3.4 seconds per month fast.
Thanks. I have a long lasting aversion against the 1 second clicking that kept me awake at night and kept me from buying quartz watches. Now I see there are others and will be more open to quartz watches again.
Love the Atmos clock!
Thanks for the explanation Mark. I knew the Precisionist from Bulova was different and more accurate than other quartz watches, but didn't really know why. I really like that chrono from Bulova!
Great video Marc, i wish there wasnt so much snobbery against Quartz, i have some Autos, Omegas, Christopher Ward, but i love my Citizens, G-Shock and Pagani Desighn Moonwatch too.
Thanks for commenting, and I agree
It would be cool if you could do this again but explain the idea behind certain quartz movements like the Seiko 7548/7C movements which, from my understanding, are basically an automatic movement that has been adapted to quartz. And so people often say they are very good because they can be serviced and adjusted in a way that more contemporary quartz movements cannot. Not sure if that’s true or not, but it would be neat to see the difference. I have a 7548 id be willing to send along for the video lol!
interesting, I'll check it out
More info if you want to nerd out: Accuracy in Quartz oscillators is a culmination of things. Quartz crystal cut (XT or AT), the stability of the capacitors that makes up the resonant tank and the stability of the amplifier that makes up the oscillator.
As a retired engineer and adjunct faculty member of an engineering college, I would stress to my students the difference between precision and accuracy. I told them a voltmeter with a 10 digit display could precisely measure an incorrect value.
I have an assortment of various movements in my collection. My Rolex Air King was never more than 2 secs off in six years. I would set it down overnight (crown up/down, dial up/down, etc.) in whatever position required to keep it within specs.
The mechanical movements are truly highly engineered, but the quartz movements are light years ahead of the mechanical movement. My favorite watch is neither mechanical nor quartz, it's a Bulova 218 Accutron. I gifted myself that watch for my 30th birthday. That was in 1974. Fifty years later, I only wear it for special occasions. I've kept it in pristine, like new condition.
(For my 80th birthday, I gifted myself a Tisas 1911 Commander size Carry 45.)
I have a number of Precisionist watches and love them. Bulova has tended to put them in large cases which is a bit off putting, but the Chronograph you showed is a marvellous watch which I also own. I also have a number of Maurice Lacroix quartz watches and they have lovely well built movements.
I wish people saw the quartz for what it is, a marvel of technology!
I luv it when an engineer makes and sells watches because the engineering and science elainations of said timepieces are so good. Rock on,er time on, Island Watches!
I love my GS 9F, facory star version, with improved accuracy to 5 seconds per year, but it real life actually better!
My Casio Edifice is running at minus 12 seconds/year and it looks good, and I payed 85 euros for it. I'm so happy .😊
Excellent video! It helped to understand more about how quartz watches work. That Bulova is amazing. Thanks Marc. Have a great day!
same!
I love your watch and learns. I learned a lot from them over the years as a new watch enthusiast❤
Another “easy to understand video” Mark. Thanks.
Fantastic watch and learn episode Marc. I enjoy these immensely!
thanks!
Again, great presentation. Funny you should mention mechanical movements: I'm trying to prepare a few vintage Hamilton watches (1960s-70s vintage) for sale. both the dress watches beat at 18,000 mph, and, in spite of their age, both measures rather well on the ol' timegrapher, and in more than one position. By contrast, a Seiko 5 I bought used (loved the dial and case details) has a 21,600vph movement whose current operating state is "all over the place", likely due to a seriously-hard drop at some point. (The fact that I *did* recently buy a timegrapher might call my mental state somewhat into question, bu that's an entirely different matter.)
Very interesting video. The Bulova is a very impressive watch for the price. I’ve been into this hobby 6 years now and find myself turning to my Seiko quartz chronograph much more than all my other automatic watches these days. I appreciate the convenience of not having to keep resetting the time due to mechanicals stopping when you stop wearing them and also the far superior accuracy of quartz (which also means far less adjusting of the time)
thanks for watching
What is your seiko chrono solar?
@@dyslexicbien It’s actually an alarm chrono - model SNAF09P1 which has been discontinued. Lovely green dial with gold hands and markers. A UA-cam channel called 2stime did a good visual only video of it a few years ago.
What hobby? Buying watches?
@@lewisham Yes buying watches although of course watches are practical tools but I’ve bought too many over the past few years. Maybe an addiction is a better word than hobby.
Thank you! As always another excellent and educational video. I have learned soooooo much from you. Much appreciated.
Basically, people need to think about the hands just like a display. They totally belie what's going on in the circuitry of the movement. It's just how the designer of the movement decides to sample the beat of the crystal and update that more often as a position change on the hands. The best example is a solar quartz. Certain solar watches stop the hands entirely in darkness to save power, but internally they're still keeping time until you bring it back into the light.
A brilliant watch and learn Marc 👍
Just for fun, you might explain just how clock accuracy is determined. It might be interesting to many to note that the traditional average and standard deviation do not apply to clocks. An explanation of the Allan Variance method could be very enlightening. Cheers.
The Bulova Precisionist movements are truly amazing. I have the Lunar Pilot. The only watches more accurate are atomic clock syncing watches!
very true!
I have a Citizen eco-drive (BN0085-01E) which runs at +8 secs per year.
Amazing for such an inexpensive watch - I realize that I got lucky with a particularly well made unit. Much respect to Citizen though.
Thanks for a very informative video Mark.
I have a1980 7548 0N3451 Quartz Seiko (looks like an SKX009) and I find this extremely accurate.
I’ve been enjoying wearing it instead of my auto watches lately. Basically set and forget.
Marathon watches are so so good thank you so much sir all the knowledge
thanks for checking it out
Love the explanations! You actually understand the technology you sell. Please do more like this!
I've done 90 others!
@@islandwatch haha true 😭 watch and learn is nothing new. I just hear your engineering background come out in this one and I loved it. quartz resonators and piezo electric effect are really cool. Maybe you can talk about atomic clocks and how the watches that sync with them all works, unless that's been covered!
Nice synopsis Marc...thanks...👍
welcome
Mark, as always another great video. Could you expand and talk about digital quartz ?
Yes I've questioned before. Is a digital quartz watch inherently more or less accurate than analog quartz?
Tackle is deep question for us Marc. 😊
Great explanation Mark
Bulova Precisionist is an amazing technology. Sadly, my Bulova Sea King with Precisionist movement died on me recently. However, my Bulova Lunar Pilot with Precisionist movement is still going strong!
Do you mean that the battery died or the actual movement?
@@RogueAgentX movement (date doesn't work)
I own a Lunar Pilot for more tahn 1 year now and i have to say it was a great purchase, extremely accurate, you can trust the tme it says it is, it's a really set anf forget watch.
I never realized that the LP was actually a precisionist movement, as well. I knew they both ran at 262kHz but I didn't think that made them both precisionists. I bought another precisionist just to get that super smooth sweep that it does. Great watches, great company!
thanks for the video!
It is remarkable that a basic Seiko movement may lose 11sec when a day has over 80,000.
Great video
Very cool video Marc, and great explanation of everything. As you talked about the big battery in the Bulova, I'm wearing a G-Shock Mudmaster GG-1000 right now which holds 2 batteries! It's a 1 tick per second seconds hand but in the year I've owned it, it's gained around 15 seconds and I just recalibrated it today.
Hello,Marc love your videos I am making my own watch company and was going to ask you for any knowledge you may have or willing give!!!!
My GS has gained 1sec since March 1st. I genuinely cannot believe it. Quartz is truly amazing.
Amazing!
Great explanation. Thanks!
thanks for watching
I wish you would've talked about how whether or not the seconds hand hits the marks on the dial has absolutely nothing to do with the movement's accuracy.
I like the hands of your islander on the right at the beginning of the video. I haven’t found them on your sight yet.
Amazing and educational videos like always. Thank you very much!!!
Good information. Thanks for posting!
You bet!
I understood your demonstration without any accuracy in my mind but it s fascinating, love it. I have a strange question here: is it possible that quartz watches being mostly non sweeping a cultural bias? Like people, except watch nerds, kinda freak out looking at time like a fluid unstoppable movement rather than a more reassuring ticking.
I think the coolest quartz have no seconds hand at all!
Mostly battery is my guess, starting a motor is much more demanding than running it for a little longer. Moving the seconds hand 3x per second probably takes nearly as much energy as moving it once per second for 3 seconds. Many analog quartz watches now stop moving the hands entirely when no movement has been sensed for 72 hours, then they spin the hands into position when you wake them up. Based on seiko “kinetic” movements that do this you could probably get a general idea how little the crystal is actually using, but I think not moving the hands makes the battery last at least 10x longer
I have learned so much from watching your videos. Thanks
I went mechanical with the Marathon GSAR as I have a soft spot for traditional movements
sweet! Me too
Iv'e been moving into the quartz side lately, the Bulova Jet Star Precionist is on my radar at the moment. It's not that i wouldn't buy another automatic but it would have to be pretty special for me to do so.
awesome
I had a lot of trouble getting a cheap thermocompensated quartz watch. I finally used two cheats: 1) buy a unisex-looking watch sold as a women’s model 2) look for something with an ETA Precidrive movement. A few Certina watches actually have “Precidrive” written on the dial. That really helps. Tissot and others seem ashamed of it. A quartz COSC-certified watch will be thermocompensated, though not necessarily cheap.
I have a couple of Precisionist watches and the motion of the seconds hand is cool but they don’t act like thermocompensated watches and I assume they’re not. Usually not accurate enough.
I love my two Precisionists.
The other watches in my collection are 6 manuals and 10 Quartz.
I have noticed some of my cheaper Quartz are not super accurate but the nicer ones are.
My mechanicals need resetting several times a day.
So you know the deal!
Surprisingly some of the most accurate quartz in my collection are the Casio AE1200 which can be had for $30. Running at about +2 seconds per month
@@w3therby All digital I think are the most accurate, regardless of price
I have a multitude of quartz and mechanical watches, love them both. But I cannot imagine a single advantage of a quartz second hand ticking more than once per second. To my eye, doesn’t even look “more accurate”.
thank you professor
ha, you are welcome
Great Video! ❤
Great video, full of stuff we like to hear about. Love my Bulova lunar pilot! It's in my short list of 'daily' wears. I really enjoy the mechanicals, the movements have always been a source of fascination for me. But the no hassle ready to go of quartz watches keeps them on my wrist a lot. My fav lately is Tissot prc chrono, most legible / easy to read watch I have. Looks great, feels great. Thanks lots for another great watch and learn, this was especially informative IMHO!
Very informative and educational video Marc, thanks.
My respect to you señor. This video is a gem!
thanks!
Thanks! This is very informational 👍
Glad you think so!
I have several Citizen Ecodrive watches and they are quite accurate. I've set them against an atomic clock and they are good for 3 seconds a month accuracy, pretty good even by quartz standards.
Great video
I get it, thanks for this helpful video. Question: why do quartz watches often have second hands that move at one second intervals, or possibly a bit more rapidly, while quartz clocks have second hands that seem to sweep smoothly?
Those are running on an ac current and are regulated by the frequency of the electrical grid. A quartz watch uses a stepper motor one once per second to save battery. You could get a smoother sweep on a quartz but it would drain the battery. I wonder how long the Hemel battery lasts compared to others. Maybe you are taking about different wall clocks
Interesting and thanks, however, our quartz wall clocks are on dc battery power.
Because quartz clocks that have continuous sweep are powered by AA cells, which have FAR more power than button batteries. Still, though, DC wall clocks with continuous sweep do not have long batt power
@@islandwatch thanks for adding to my answer! I was talking about really old school clocks, which work in a similar way to outlet timers (and are not quartz)
That's an important and critical point about the Bulova's Precisionist movements: The energy cost of having all this extra work means larger batteries with shorter lifespans, and the larger case sizes to accommodate those larger batteries. There are going to be trade-offs between mechanical and electronic power consumption: A digital LCD is the "sweet spot" for efficient timekeeping because has no moving parts. However, liquid crystal displays are function over form (they're not beautiful).
Very interesting thanks and nice to have things explained, well put 👏😊
thanks!
Great video Marc! I love the Bulova precisionist movement but just wish they had a WAY better design team. I purchased a used Bulova Precisionist 98B267 several years ago, but ended up selling it as the design - once I had it my hands - didn't win me over after a day or two; kind of boring. It was a simple 3-hand but man...the second hand ticked at 16 ticks/second and was so close to a smooth sweep that it was almost imperceptible to see the individual ticks and I would just stare at it for 20-30 seconds several times a day as it was a bit mesmerizing. It also helped that it was a reasonable 42mm and a solid every day watch if you liked the style.
Fantastic video - thanks for making it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Quartz is unfortunately unloved by so many in the watch world. The precisionist movement (back when it was 10 seconds a year!) Seiko 9F, Citizen Chronomaster, and the hand built Yamagata Casio’s are truly phenomenal watches. I wish more companies would make really impressive quartz movements. Great video 👍
Have all black Bulova.. 🙂
I wish more quartz watches had this feature I've found in YES watches (the Equilibrium and V7) - you can input an offset in a menu and make your watch more accurate.
A bit of a hassle when there is an atomic signal available..
yeah but that's really for the crazy enthusiast
@@islandwatch
I suppose so..😀
Thx!!
No problem!
I have by now collected 3 HAQ watches, a Bulova Precisionist, a Longines Conquest VHP GMT, and a Grand Seiko GMT. The Longines is the most accurate.
The Bulova looks cool with its 16 beats per second.
cool!
I'll throw a plug in for my Longines Conquest. This is the regular version, not the UHP (radio) one, and mine runs
Great explanation. Can you do the EcoDrive Caliber One next
I'd have to buy one.
When will you have SOLAR Islanders?
You could mention thermocompensation as the best way to increase accuracy of the quartz. My ETA 251.264 with normal 32 kHz to this day gained about 1, maybe 1.5 sec since February 2022, when the crown was pulled out last time.
The Bulova does have some of this.
So it has a perpetual calendar ?
Or no date at all?
@@e28forever30 It has sort of quick set date on 1 crown position where it doesn't hack (GMT-like jump hour hand). So no reason to stop and reset the movement.
@@Apokathelosis 👍
I have a Tissot prc200 quartz watch that I bought in 2006. It is accurate to about 8-10 seconds a year. Far and away my most accurate watch.
that's really good
my only nickpick about my lunar pilot is that for the same 15 positions ob every hour the minute hand isn't aligned the same way, but goes back to following the minute indices after that time. wonder if it's a gear issue.
Nice one Mark. Disassembled an inexpensive quartz clock a couple of weeks ago , could see the tuning fork and it had a small magnet at its centre that drove a set of (plastic) cogs for Second ,Min and Hour. i presume that must be the absolute cheapest type of quartz movement? (:
Anyone who knows anything about radio signal generation knows about quartz oscillators which existed a long time before quartz watches. I often wonder if radio engineers who had somehow become involved in the watch industry were first to see how an electronic oscillator could control watch timing. There is a crossover with Seiko Spring Drive too. The first time I got the basic explanation of how it works I immediately thought of velocity feedback in servo mechanisms. Thanks for the info Marc.
My RC cars all have quartz resonators :)
"I often wonder if radio engineers who had somehow become involved in the watch industry were first to see how an electronic oscillator could control watch timing."
Not exactly, but sort of.
Since period and frequency are basically the same thing (just the reciprocal of each other), the quartz oscillator as a precision frequency standard and a timebase was invented by the same guy, physicist Walter Cady.
Quartz based timing equipment was in use well before quartz's introduction into watches. That was more a matter of figuring out how to make the technology sufficiently small/light/low powered. Getting it into watches required microelectronics technology to mature to a point where it would be practical.
The guys who took the microelectronics technology and demonstrated that it could be used in watches were watch guys. Although it would be more accurate to say that they were a group of researchers/scientists/engineers working in a watch research and development organization.
www.quartzwristwatch.org/history-of-the-first-quartz-wristwatch
that door knob protector to the 4 o clock of your logo sticker, needs a 4 o clock blue hand painted (to resemble your logo) and then you can retire the sticker.@00:32😂
To paraphrase the late Deng Zheoping....." it does not matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice"....so if a watch clicks or ticks, it does not matter so long as it's accurate. And 262 kHz is bloody accurate, better than any clockwork driven mechanism.
Does Bulova have a precisionist that runs with eco-drive? Seems like a logical pairing.
How is the temperature coefficient of the crystal dealt with? I recall radio transmitters had their crystals in little chambers called "ovens" which kept the crystal at a constant temperature of around 125° F. Even so, I noticed that AM radio stations on the same channel typically had a beat frequency of 3 to 15 Hertz, which meant the inaccuracy was around ten parts per million (≈25 seconds/month). I wonder how crystals could be made more accurate over a wide range of temperature.
Electronics engineer here.
It doesn't make any difference what the frequency of a crystal is. All "common off-the-shelf" crystals are +/-20 to +/-50 ppm. That goes for every frequency, whether it is 32,768 Hz (the most common watch crystal), the 262,144 Hz in the Bulova or a 10 MHz crystal. The frequency is divided down to whatever step rate is required for the second hand and but the accuracy remains the same.
An electronic temperature compensation can be desgined-in, adjusting the crystal frequency over temperature. Well designed, it can bring the accuracy down to 1 pmm.
A well designed oscillator circuit also has a trimmer capacitor to adjust the frequency. But there will always be drift caused by ageing of the crystal.
Translated to seconds per day or per month:
+/-50 ppm equals 4.32 s/day
+/-1 ppm equals 0.0864 s/day or 2.7 s/month.
Long story short: you cannot judge the accuracy of a watch by simply looking at its crystal frequency. You need to know the accuracy specification of the crystal that's being used, if it is temperature compensated and if a trimmer is used to adjust the frequency to specification.
I have the lunar pilot and love it. It is not a precisionist though. According to bulova it is as accurate though. I have been looking at some precisionist chronographs the last week. They tick 16 times per second so appear to sweep rather than tick. They can also time to 1 thousandth of a second where the lunar pilot only times to 1 twentieth of a second.
Is the Bulova Jet Star coming in?
hopefully
Thing is, highest quality quartz movements compensate for temperature differences and whatnot. While quartz in general are quite accurate, there are differences among them.
Hi mark I have a question.. quartz is more reliable accurate and cheaper than automatic, so why do navy and army often opt for the auto version? Like the gsar. Any ideas?
Probably to reduce the risk of the battery dying while the user is deployed in the field and has no access to a replacement battery.
6:58 The weirdest thing I’ve ever heard about resonant frequencies is that there was, many years ago, a factory in, I think, France. They ventilated the shop floor with a huge fan, which turned very slowly. Workers started getting violently ill at the company and they realized that the fan, even though it was moving very slowly, was moving with the same resonant frequency as the workers’ guts! It was literally breaking up their intestines.
just like construction vehicle seats!
That is surely a myth.
Recommend reading article “Why People Believe Low-Frequency Sound Is Dangerous” from The Atlantic
It’s too good a story for me to go read some factual article that debunks it. (It probably claims those workers were eating bad escargot from a food cart.)
@@johnsrabeI agree, and will add that sound can do all sorts of crap to living beings.
I’ve never heard anyone, let alone everyone, say that a quartz movement that tics more times per second is what makes one more accurate. However, the only time I hear anyone talk about quartz accuracy is when I have searched UA-cam for how quartz watches work. Can someone give me an example of when they have encountered everyone being wrong about quartz accuracy?
People think that because a watch, like the precisionist, has a second hand that moves smoothly, it is automatically more accurate. That is not true.
If you don't believe it, that's fine. I'm saying that most people do believe it. Sure, 'everyone' is hyperbole.
@@islandwatch my comment was too pugnacious. I’m actually never around anyone talking about watches in real life. I was wondering if this was more of a UA-cam watch reviewer thing or just casual watch conversations in day to day life.
A lot of people who don't know about watches will never believe that a $20 Casio at least twice as good as a $20,0000 Rolex, and more than likely closer to an order of magnitude better.
i have a seiko tuna marinemaster quartz that has a serviceable movement and i loses about a second every 3 months
Hello! Frequency is not the best gauge of timekeeper accuracy. Rather, it is the quality factor of the timebase oscillator. Quality factor is essentially the number of free oscillations that the timebase can achieve before stopping. English engineer Douglas Bateman showed that there is a good correlation between timekeeper accuracy and the quality factor of its oscillator timebase. The quality factor of a mechanical watch is about 200, while quartz watches have quality factor going up to 100,000. For example, the most accurate pendulum clocks have frequency 1/2 Hz, but have similar accuracy to the best quartz watches, and have similar quality factor.
I have many casios, and they don't defer more than 10-15 seconds a year. I suppose casio understates it's accuracy so they don't have to deal with complains (and it's probably not only casio that does that)
Is bounce back considered bad? I’ve often wondered how to visually tell high quality vs low quality 1bps quartz ticks apart. Some seem to move snappy and fast, others slow, some bouncy and others firm. Etc
Bounce back looks cheap.
Many low priced Timex watches suffer from this…don’t se it with similar priced Casios.
yeah, it looks like poop. Otherwise, it's harmless.
@@islandwatch
Unlike poop. 💩
About movements with higher beat rates being generally more refined is arguable. Many high horology movements are only 3 hertz.
That's the converse. I didn't say the converse was true.
That's because the lower beat rate causes less wear and tear on the parts. Thus, all things equal, said watches will have a longer life. As a bonus, the oscillations of the balance wheel are more pleasing to the eye (open case back).
I picked up a Longines VHP GMT in the summer, super bit of kit +/- 5 seconds per year with some very clever technology, pity it’s being discontinued, although it was half price so good for me. Also the family have Certina Precidrives (one COSC, one not) these are +/- 10 seconds per year. Citizen calibre 0100 is the only more accurate watch than the longines but costs a whole lot more…running at 8.4 MHz
thanks for watching!
Yeah, but some people want to know if higher frequency makes more precise watch. Ignoring the running seconds, does 262kHz makes it more precise than 32 kHz quartz, and Citizen Chronomaster that works on 8,400 kHz is even more precise because of that frequency? I know there are compensators and what not to make it work better, but if we ignore all that technology, does the frequency makes more precise watch? I had a debate about that many times, I would like a professional opinion :D
Would be cool to do the math on how much the accuracy changes from when the battery is full and nearly empty in different quartz movements, as the frequency in the tuning fork will change as the voltage changes, and the lower voltage output of a more depleted battery makes the watch run slower, probably with a very unoticable amount. But enough for solar movements that stay topped off to get a average higher accuracy than their battery counterparts
from what I know, the resonator is fairly constant around 1.5V, so even at high charge or low charge, there isn't much variation.
@islandwatch yes, it's more towards when it gets quite low and falls below the voltage used to keep time, you get a somewhat noticeable change, it won't do anything as long as it can deliver the desired voltage.
Measured with a multimeter on a few batteries and voltage is a pretty consistent output of the range of charge you will have most of the time.
So, if calculated for, it would be minor, I'd assume.
@@AnirossaFWIW I recently had a battery die in a Vaer w/ an Aneriquartz 6130 HT movement. I’ve been tracking it long term and the last data point was at 250 days, three days before it died. There was no deference. It maintained +0.048 until it stopped completely. It maintained that rate over a two year span which was really surprising. I have many quartz watches that vary greatly just by wearing them.
I could be wrong but I'm almost certain that the bulova lunar pilot USES the 399 battery and not the 2016 like the other precisionists.