Interesting . I’ve heard some of this story before. But not in depth. I was born/raised in St.L. so spent all summers at Lk. Ozark, and also all over the Ozarks. I don’t remember how old I was but my cousin [ 10 years my senior] , had a petition to stop the damming of the Meramec River . I had him give me one. I got more signatures on it than ANYONE. Must have worked, they did not build it. My favorite river - Niangua. I canoed down it a number of times at summer camp. That whole area is just so beautiful, naturally. 📻🙂
My grandma lived in the Ozark valley. My Grandpa was from the West Coast and came out to Missouri to build Bagnell Dam. My Grandma brought him sandwiches every day to woo him while he built the monstrosity that would destroy her home. I used to water ski on the Lake at my aunts place when I was a kid. Wild world.
I was friends of Helen and Charlie Robb. They were party to the lawsuit to stop Truman Dam. Charlie's familiy had owned a Fish Camp on the Osage River for many years and Charlie run a commerciail catfish business. The walls of his house were plastered in photo's of giant catfish that had been caught thru the years. Sad that all that history was lost.
My grandparents had a small 113 acre farm in Humansville MO. It was too rocky to grow crops of any big substance but there was enough grass and brush creek for cattle. I remember going there as a child until my grandfather died in 1972. I remember old 7 and 13 highway driving down there and it seemed like days as a child. Now it is divided 4 lanes all the way to Branson. The old farm house is still there, but dilapidated. I love being able to drive from Kansas City to Branson and Table Rock and a few other places down there in 4 hours or better if I drive a little faster, but I do miss the old winding route and dozens of little gas station towns along the way. Progression are all natural and sadly will be the end of us one day. With the political divide now I think that day is not far off.
I’m 32, have been going there since birth and remember gravel roads for miles, lot has changed lol😂 live at 45th MM just off 7 in Roach. Find the history of the lake fascinating but *extremely* sad
Just ordered the book and will get is soon. In honesty I think there needs to be a balance, but I will wait until I read the book to make any real comments.
It's cool to look back from a historical perspective, and being able to see what a great decision it was to build the dam. Shows you can't live in fear. A good reminder.
I’m not sure exactly how the Bagnel Dam changed the Ozarks, but I do know how it is now. Most of the towns that exist in the Lake of the Ozarks area are dependent on tourism. It’s even worse now that the pandemic has basically walled people away and made them less likely to go out, though I can’t really blame them. Personally, I think the greatest tragedy that occurred because of the damming of the Ozarks was the loss of Old Linn Creek. An entire town is in that lake and all of the people who lived there were displaced... There’s a real shame in that, ya know? To suddenly lose your home cause some 20 miles away somebody walled up a river.
Covid lead to the beat year the lake ever had. No One wants to wear masks or live under the governments thumb so they went to the lake where no one does.
Sad but true, I remember those days quite well, at least the Truman Lake project. One question & I hope someone here can answer, was river boat traffic up as far as Deepwater Missouri on the Osage?
I can't find my book right now, but in The Osage Indians in Missouri, it says the farthest a steamboat got was not quite to modern day 71, I think near Schell Osage wildlife area
We don't know of any steamboats that went up the South Grand River. There are records of steamboats reaching Papinville where Harmony Mission was located very, very occasionally. There was one incident of a steamboat going further during a flood but they had to dig out the bank of the river frantically to turn it around before the water went down and stranded it. Before the Civil War Osceola was visited fairly often by steamboats. Warsaw had more commercial boat traffic. After the Civil War Tuscumbia and Linn Creek were visited by steamboats fairly often, but mainly the Osage was used to float railroad ties in the early 20th century.
Many thanks, as I couldn't find out much on this subject.....I've yet to hear back from the Corps of Engineers about this & a few other minor questions. Thanks again, J.G.
I appreciate the video and the book but I got to be honest with you. I'm not sure the facts match up. The paddlefish are doing great and although many farms were definitely flooded we also have to consider the fact that we can now control one of the worst rivers in colonial America when it came to flooding and people being killed or property being lost. I guess it's the better of two evils but not a perfect scenario of course. My opinion is that the biggest loss is ancient artifacts.
Truman Dam eliminated the known paddlefish spawning in the state of Missouri. All the paddlefish that are snagged are artificially raised and stocked. This is extremely expensive and if there is a severe downturn in the economy it's a program that would likely be dropped. Many scientists worry that artificial spawning will ultimately cause genetic damage. As for flood control, flood damage is increasing yearly in the United States. All the flood control projects do is control minor flooding which encourages floodplain development. Once reservoirs are full of water they add to flood crests. It's a recipe for disaster that has just begun. We share your concern for the archaeological damage caused by reservoirs. No archaeology was done in the Lake of the Ozarks basin. There was extensive research on Truman but it was far from complete.
Glaciers did not come this far south in Missouri. Archaeologists believe these are definitely man-made, although they're unsure who constructed them and for exactly what reason. As we said in the book there were more of them at one time. They're definitely some kind of storage pit, probably dug by French fur traders.
Very grateful that they decided to this a long time ago. The benefit it has had for Missouri economically and recreationally is immense. And it will continue to be a huge part of Missouri culture for decades to come. Who doesn’t like going to the lakes?
So you want humans to not advance or do anything at all because someone or something inevitably suffers while many prosper. The dams have brought much more prosperity to the area than not and you cannot deny it.
We’re not sure what specific dam you are referring to, but the idea that dams all represent human advancement is an outdated belief. Since the big dam building era in America, few have been found to deliver their promised benefits. An incredible amount of good farmland has been lost, and flood damages increase every year. Missouri gets less than 3% of its electricity from hydro power. Studies by the University of Missouri reveal counties with artificial lakes are not more prosperous than surrounding counties - some are less. Tourism creates seasonal, low paying jobs. Not everyone finds stagnant water backed up behind dams to be an ideal vacation land. Obviously you haven’t read Damming the Osage, our book which details dam building scams, unfulfilled promises, and environmental disasters caused by damming one American river.
Less than 3% of electricity from dams and ~77% of its electricity from coal. Lots of people like reservoirs. That's why lakeside property is valuable and heavily developed. Emissions free power is always a benefit. Damaging flooding happens on streams without dams as well. Oh, it is retarded to say: "Not everyone finds stagnat water backed up behind dams to be ideal vacation land." The first reason for which is it's not stagnant. Farmland is also fucking irrigated by that water and drinking water is provided to people.
And yes, counties near reservoirs are often more prosperous. Benton, Washington, Carroll, and Madison counties in Arkansas as well as Stone and Taney counties in Missouri are proof of this. As it is, modern environmentalism is dreadfully anti-human (especially anti-prosperity) and anti-progress. Aren't lakes like the Great Lakes or Crater Lake just stagnant, ugly pools of water? Wouldn't it be the same with natural damming from a rock slide (or in areas where it happens), a lava flow?
@@Jemalacane0 - The Great Lakes are one of most prolific fisheries in the world. The rivers in Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. are full of trout, salmon, steelhead, etc. The Great Lakes also are the largest freshwater lakes in the world. Crater Lake in southern Oregon is the most beautiful clear mountain lake you could imagine since it sits in the crater of an extinct volcano the water is so clear you can see for 50 feet or more down into it. There is only one motorized boat allowed on the lake to take tourists to/from Wizard Island. There is one hotel in the drainage of the lake and it is still as pure as it was thousands of years ago since no building is allowed and no septic tank drainage or forest spraying is done to cause lake contamination. Obviously you have never visited there as I consider the lake one of the wonders of the world since it is not spoiled as they have done to Lake Tahoe in California and Nevada. There has been so much building of homes, ski lodges, casinos, etc. around the lake that algae is growing the lake and it is not nearly as clear as it used to be 60 years ago when I first saw the lake.
It's interesting. I've read all the comments and the majority of them are for the dams. I'm all for progress. But so many of the people don't really know what's going on. I would call lake of the Ozarks a success. It's brought electricity and tourism to that area. The 2 worse things it did was stop the sturgeon from migrating up the river and force out the people of a low population area. Truman however is an utter failure. Let's start with the dam it's self. It is supposed to be a hydro electric dam to produce power. Out of the 6 turbines at any given at most they run is 2. This is because the dam was built incorrectly. The turbine shafts where put in at the wrong angle. They can only run for about 2 months because the vibration is so bad it blows out the bearings and it takes months and lots of money to fix. Because of the design of the dam it can't be fixed, so will never produce what was promised. The low water dam that was in Osceola put out more than Truman. So the dam it self is a fail. Like most dam projects all the people got forced out of their homes. But it also forced out several large industries. Canneries cheese plants plus several others. Which had a huge impact. Not to mention the obvious farming. People like to mention that the lake brought recreation and tourism which "created jobs" not really it did the opposite. It covered hundreds of fishing camps all along the river. These had people coming from all over the world. These would be completely filled with people and and all the hotels also. The banks would also be lined with just the day people. The people never came back after the lake came, only one hotel is left and it was empty for decades. Most of the businesses that are designed around recreation and tourism generally only last a year or two. The people just don't come to support it. Most of the towns are dead. Osceola is dieing fast and Clinton is pretty stagnant. The only one kinda growing is Warsaw. But most of the people who go there go on lake of the Ozarks and not Truman. So much for recreation and tourism. The lake it self is filling with sediment because it's a muddy river. It's basically a filter for lake of the Ozarks. The Corp of engineers have also permanently lowered the water level. So with that they now have lots of new land and less lake. With little power being produced and less recreation and tourism than there was, they didn't stand up to their promises and is a huge failure. As for flood control when it floods it stays flooded for months because they can't let the water out as is really needed and that is because bagnal dam is on it's last leg and can't handle the influx of the extra water. It's in bad shape it's cracked and leaking to the point no one should live down stream of it. As far as the book I couldn't say. I heard a bit of misinformation in the video that bothers me and don't how much more is in the book.
In the book, we don't contest that Lake of the Ozarks could be considered, as you say, a tourist "success." When it was built, the electricity was not available locally--it was delivered to lead mining in the St. Francois Mountains. Even today, only a little over 2 percent of the electricity used in Missouri comes from hydroelectric dams. What we point out in our book is Lake of the Ozarks was a scheme to enrich a corrupt banker and the corrupt management of Union Electric Company. Both of these personalities would end up doing time for their business practices in federal penitentiaries. As tourism has inherent economic problems, it is not a complete blessing either. Bagnell Dam didn't block the sturgeon, as Lock and Dam No. 1, built many years earlier near the mouth of the Osage, did that job long before Bagnell. (co-author of the book, Damming the Osage)
There is no conflict with intelligent people. Think about the flooding we currently have and add the amount of water held by Bagnel to the floods along the Mississippi in spring. I do enjoy the pictures but the percentage of Missouri covered in water by all the big lakes in the area is pretty small.
If we listened to every enviomenleist there would be no progress made in this world. Unfortunately, we all have to make some sacrifices for our needs. Electricity this damn produces , benefits many thousands if not millions of people. In addition, the creation of this lake has created whole new industries and tourism dollars to this area.
I love how these "types" of people tell the public how bad this is... I live in Clinton....I've never heard anyone say anything bad about about the opportunities brought by the project. Example... You say the paddlefish breeding grounds are gone.. The paddlefish are thriving... The fishing at the reservoir is second to none...people come from all over the country to fish here... We have a beautiful area ....many great things have developed from this project. You want to always tell people how to look at nature...what to do and how to do it... You never take part in anything that is not tainted in controversy..its what drives you... You look at things through clouded eyes.. Actually...I feel sorry for you.
the Cleanest method of energy and an attraction that ultimately helped people thrive in the area. The only people who were conflicted were Hillbillies.
Hydroelectricity is indeed "clean" but in an area of relatively low relief like Missouri, it's a trivial source of electricity, amounting to only 1.32 percent of all the consumption of electricity in the state. Many studies by the University of Missouri have concluded that these dam projects do not show improvement for the local economy. Jobs are seasonal and low paying. Tourism is an unstable business overall. As for conflicted hillbillies - count my husband in!
What hypocritical drivel this is. You say that old towns are a relic of American history and culture. You longingly gaze at old bridges over the tributaries to the Osage river. You know, back in their day, towns going up where farms used to be, and bridges over rivers, degraded the natural environment just like you say the dams do. On the other hand, millions benefit from the lake(s) - from recreation, to power to flood control. How can you discuss Truman reservoir and Bagnell Dam without even mentioning clean renewable power and the thousands of lives saved by the flood control? This is one-sided nonsense with no supporting facts.
We are honored Brian that you took the time to share your deep thoughts about water resource management with us. Many of your assertions that this is “one-sided nonsense with no supporting facts” might be abated if you would read our 304-page book, Damming the Osage (available on Amazon). In it we quote numerous experts, most of whom are college professors with advance degrees. The fact is that low head dams on rivers with modest all-year water supplies are not a good investment. Hydropower from the Osage River is less than 1 percent of the state of Missouri’s power usage. If you think Corps of Engineers multipurpose dams are effective flood control why is the yearly cost of flood damage rising? As for the economics of reservoirs-numerous studies have concluded that the economies of counties that don’t have reservoirs are often healthier than the economies of counties that actually have reservoirs. When you look into how “millions benefit from the lakes” you will find tourism is unstable, seasonal and is characterized by low paying, service industry jobs. Populations of retired people who move to these lakes use more services than their taxes put back into the economy. Tourism is notoriously fickle. Shallow, turbid, aging artificial lakes in the Midwest are not competitive with destinations with spectacular scenery, better accommodations and amenities, bigger advertising budgets or with widely recognized cultural assets. Condo sales pitches, souvenir shops, fast food, fishing tournaments, and Jet Ski rentals are not everyone’s idea of a vacation paradise. Of course then, there’s party cove!
You didn't address the key points to my response. You lovingly reported the old bridges you saw, but don't like the dam. Environmentalists find fault with any human activity, but you are picking and choosing here. You also did not address the power output of the dam. 1% of Missouri's power output is quite significant. After a quick search, Amren UE says they make 678,000 MWh. According to eia.gov, power in Missouri is 9.44 center per KWh. That means the dam makes about $64,000,000 in power revenue per year. Considering the dam's low cost back in the 1920's, this is a very economic and environmentally friendly source of power. How do you say its not a good investment? Bagnell is not a Corps of Engineers dam. Its also not a flood control dam. Why would you bring that up, unless you are mistaken about what Bagnell dam is? When I state the fact that millions benefit from the lake, from tourists to local jobs, your response of tourism being unstable, seasonal or whatever is irrelevant. The dam has been here over 80 years and people choose to visit, and live at the lake. People are running businesses there. In fact, business is booming at the lake. Some of the largest boat dealers in the US are at the lake. Multi-million dollar mansions with heli-pads on the roofs are at the lake. Some of us think the lake IS spectacular scenery. Who cares if some mountain top or island is different scenery? Btw, the lake is close to many of us., making it far superior to more remote destinations. Party cove is as relevant to the lake as Bourbon Street is to New Orleans or gay districts are to San Francisco. You've really lost your train of thought. If you wan to engage in real thought about dams like this one, get the facts straight and think of each issue from all sides.
Your vehement criticism of the content of our book, Damming the Osage, which you haven’t read, is paralleled by your painful unfamiliarity with the history of water resrouce development and its hydrological, economic, ecological, and societal impacts. Thanks, however, Brian, for tipping us off that Bagnell Dam is not a Corps of Engineers project. It’s not for flood control-you’re kidding!
If you want to debate what the purposes are for the Bagnell dam, and who the owners/operators are, that is very important, so let's see if we can resolve that simple misunderstanding. According to Wiki, "Bagnell Dam impounds the Osage River ... for the purpose of hydroelectric power generation as its Osage Powerplant." AmrenUE, who own and operate the dam, have a history page, and on it, it states, "In 1912, Ralph W. Street of Kansas City first proposed damming the Osage River to generate electricity." Why would a private company provide flood control to unassociated and unidentified strangers in the middle of Missouri? If you check into the USACE, the USACE has a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with AmrenUE where, between them, they request and negotiate water releases from Truman and Bagnell. Of course, AmrenUE has final say for handling flood inflows and can release whatever they need if necessary. www.nwk.usace.army.mil/Portals/29/docs/lakesites/BasinOperations.pdf In contrast to Bagnell, USACE built and operates Truman, whose primary purpose is flood control for the lower Osage. Have your scholars noticed the difference? www.nwk.usace.army.mil/Portals/29/docs/lakesites/BasinOperations.pdf If you look at water levels, Truman fluctuates significantly, while Bagnell does not. Your standard "anti-government flood control dam" rhetoric is fully misplaced when used against Bagnell. A very key point against your rhetoric is your statement that dams like this are "not a good investment". Investment means, "the action or process of investing money for profit or material result". Its like you want public policy changed against all dams. But, Bagnell was not a public project and it is profitable. When discussing arguments and conclusions like presented in the book, the premise for those arguments must be dam solid (pun intended) ground. Bagnell is a solid investment for over 86 years and AmrenUE has put $52M more into it this year. This is a major over site by the scholars. Many of the premises on which your arguments are based, are incorrect, which invalidates the major conclusions. If you want to criticize Bagnell, you'll have to consider profit, tax, clean energy, cooperative flood control (with Truman), recreation, quality of life and other factors, to compare with the faults you identified. Your book failed to do so.
Here is an article written yesterday, identifying who operates which dams and how Bagnell floods down stream at its convenience. www.lakeexpo.com/weather/lake-of-the-ozarks-crests-as-bagnell-dam-floodgates-release/article_ecb17364-2de6-11e7-9f04-73c77d8d4199.html I'm not sure how the scholars got this arrangement so confused.
Was ok ! But the mid Missouri take down of the dams in the Meremac basin and especially the Big River Irondale area and Union Bourbese rivers were a huge mistake! Today many acres and homes could have been saved by daming the Big River, and Bourbese at their previous locations
The problem with the Corps of Engineers multipurpose dam program was that there simply isn't enough storage of water to protect developments from really large ain events. What the flood control projects do is protect floodplains from small floods, thereby encouraging development that is catastrophically damaged by major floods. The Corps of Engineers has had its way with dams on the Mississippi system and yet flood damage continues to mount. These realities were well known by Corps hydrologists but ignored by the political and economic dam-building juggernaut.
Not sure why you all are giving this subject any of your time! I believe the dams are built, people are using the area for recreation, floods have been controlled(mostly), and you all benefit from renewable power! Good lord you all need to adjust to something, and move ahead! Your forefathers moved on with the changes in their world!
Recreation built around artificial reservoirs is a mixed bag. Some projects do have heavy usage but other aquatic deserts. Flood damage in the Mississippi system increases annually. These multipurpose dams do control minor floods, which encourages encroachment on the floodplains. Then when a major rain event occurs the damage is catastrophic. When reservoirs are full they add to the flood crest and duration. These simple hydrologic truths are not well understood.
I am sorry but this is also dishonest journalism. Trying to selectively show only one side of an issue and in so doing only appealing to the feelings of the viewer/reader is dishonest.
Interesting .
I’ve heard some of this story before. But not in depth.
I was born/raised in St.L. so spent all summers at Lk. Ozark, and also all over the Ozarks.
I don’t remember how old I was but my cousin [ 10 years my senior] , had a petition to stop the damming of the Meramec River .
I had him give me one. I got more signatures on it than ANYONE.
Must have worked, they did not build it.
My favorite river -
Niangua. I canoed down it a number of times at summer camp. That whole area is just so beautiful, naturally.
📻🙂
My grandma lived in the Ozark valley. My Grandpa was from the West Coast and came out to Missouri to build Bagnell Dam. My Grandma brought him sandwiches every day to woo him while he built the monstrosity that would destroy her home. I used to water ski on the Lake at my aunts place when I was a kid. Wild world.
pretty nice lake nonetheless
I could definitely be woo'd with sandwiches
I was friends of Helen and Charlie Robb. They were party to the lawsuit to stop Truman Dam. Charlie's familiy had owned a Fish Camp on the Osage River for many years and Charlie run a commerciail catfish business. The walls of his house were plastered in photo's of giant catfish that had been caught thru the years. Sad that all that history was lost.
The part of the usage river that runs through central Kansas is named Maris Des Cygne (French meaning River of the swans).
My grandparents had a small 113 acre farm in Humansville MO. It was too rocky to grow crops of any big substance but there was enough grass and brush creek for cattle. I remember going there as a child until my grandfather died in 1972. I remember old 7 and 13 highway driving down there and it seemed like days as a child. Now it is divided 4 lanes all the way to Branson. The old farm house is still there, but dilapidated. I love being able to drive from Kansas City to Branson and Table Rock and a few other places down there in 4 hours or better if I drive a little faster, but I do miss the old winding route and dozens of little gas station towns along the way. Progression are all natural and sadly will be the end of us one day. With the political divide now I think that day is not far off.
Well said John, you seem smart so I hope the last part doesnt come true, there is hope for the future, just a strange transition period for us
I’m 32, have been going there since birth and remember gravel roads for miles, lot has changed lol😂 live at 45th MM just off 7 in Roach. Find the history of the lake fascinating but *extremely* sad
Leland, Jacob Snell agrees with you!
This comment deserves more recognition
As a child back in the 60's, my aunt and uncle owned a fishing camp upstream from Osceola. They were bought out by the building of Truman.
my aunt was forced out of her home over this BS. yes I said it
@@romanstarrtattoos beautiful lake
My great-uncle's farm was flooded by the Truman lake.
what it leads to is that truman is a holding pond for lake of the ozarks
Just ordered the book and will get is soon. In honesty I think there needs to be a balance, but I will wait until I read the book to make any real comments.
I have been reading the book, it is fairly good.
It's cool to look back from a historical perspective, and being able to see what a great decision it was to build the dam. Shows you can't live in fear. A good reminder.
I’m not sure exactly how the Bagnel Dam changed the Ozarks, but I do know how it is now. Most of the towns that exist in the Lake of the Ozarks area are dependent on tourism. It’s even worse now that the pandemic has basically walled people away and made them less likely to go out, though I can’t really blame them. Personally, I think the greatest tragedy that occurred because of the damming of the Ozarks was the loss of Old Linn Creek. An entire town is in that lake and all of the people who lived there were displaced... There’s a real shame in that, ya know? To suddenly lose your home cause some 20 miles away somebody walled up a river.
Covid lead to the beat year the lake ever had. No One wants to wear masks or live under the governments thumb so they went to the lake where no one does.
Sad but true, I remember those days quite well, at least the Truman Lake project. One question & I hope someone here can answer, was river boat traffic up as far as Deepwater Missouri on the Osage?
I can't find my book right now, but in The Osage Indians in Missouri, it says the farthest a steamboat got was not quite to modern day 71, I think near Schell Osage wildlife area
We don't know of any steamboats that went up the South Grand River. There are records of steamboats reaching Papinville where Harmony Mission was located very, very occasionally. There was one incident of a steamboat going further during a flood but they had to dig out the bank of the river frantically to turn it around before the water went down and stranded it. Before the Civil War Osceola was visited fairly often by steamboats. Warsaw had more commercial boat traffic. After the Civil War Tuscumbia and Linn Creek were visited by steamboats fairly often, but mainly the Osage was used to float railroad ties in the early 20th century.
Many thanks, as I couldn't find out much on this subject.....I've yet to hear back from the Corps of Engineers about this & a few other minor questions. Thanks again, J.G.
After Truman silts up, it could be a powder keg above Lake Of the Ozarks. Time will tell.
From 7:24 to 7:33, you fleshed out your regressive agenda.
I appreciate the video and the book but I got to be honest with you. I'm not sure the facts match up. The paddlefish are doing great and although many farms were definitely flooded we also have to consider the fact that we can now control one of the worst rivers in colonial America when it came to flooding and people being killed or property being lost. I guess it's the better of two evils but not a perfect scenario of course. My opinion is that the biggest loss is ancient artifacts.
Truman Dam eliminated the known paddlefish spawning in the state of Missouri. All the paddlefish that are snagged are artificially raised and stocked. This is extremely expensive and if there is a severe downturn in the economy it's a program that would likely be dropped. Many scientists worry that artificial spawning will ultimately cause genetic damage. As for flood control, flood damage is increasing yearly in the United States. All the flood control projects do is control minor flooding which encourages floodplain development. Once reservoirs are full of water they add to flood crests. It's a recipe for disaster that has just begun. We share your concern for the archaeological damage caused by reservoirs. No archaeology was done in the Lake of the Ozarks basin. There was extensive research on Truman but it was far from complete.
@@crystalpayton589 paddlefish still spawn naturally in the Osage.
Correction...the part of the osage river....
2:16, those look like potholes, the kind drilled into limestone by harder stones tumbled in glacial wash. They may have been used as caches as well.
Glaciers did not come this far south in Missouri. Archaeologists believe these are definitely man-made, although they're unsure who constructed them and for exactly what reason. As we said in the book there were more of them at one time. They're definitely some kind of storage pit, probably dug by French fur traders.
Them there holes was bored out by ancient machines driven by the Annunaki and pulled by Bigfeet (plural of Bigfoot, I think). Bigfootses?
Shut the fuck up you lunatic
The Cross-Dressing ones are "BigTootsies"
Very grateful that they decided to this a long time ago. The benefit it has had for Missouri economically and recreationally is immense. And it will continue to be a huge part of Missouri culture for decades to come. Who doesn’t like going to the lakes?
I'm Pooping in one, right now. Pull my Finger (Lakes.)
So you want humans to not advance or do anything at all because someone or something inevitably suffers while many prosper. The dams have brought much more prosperity to the area than not and you cannot deny it.
We’re not sure what specific dam you are referring to, but the idea that dams all represent human advancement is an outdated belief. Since the big dam building era in America, few have been found to deliver their promised benefits. An incredible amount of good farmland has been lost, and flood damages increase every year. Missouri gets less than 3% of its electricity from hydro power. Studies by the University of Missouri reveal counties with artificial lakes are not more prosperous than surrounding counties - some are less. Tourism creates seasonal, low paying jobs. Not everyone finds stagnant water backed up behind dams to be an ideal vacation land. Obviously you haven’t read Damming the Osage, our book which details dam building scams, unfulfilled promises, and environmental disasters caused by damming one American river.
Less than 3% of electricity from dams and ~77% of its electricity from coal. Lots of people like reservoirs. That's why lakeside property is valuable and heavily developed. Emissions free power is always a benefit. Damaging flooding happens on streams without dams as well. Oh, it is retarded to say: "Not everyone finds stagnat water backed up behind dams to be ideal vacation land." The first reason for which is it's not stagnant. Farmland is also fucking irrigated by that water and drinking water is provided to people.
It is not all about Human beings, you know.
And yes, counties near reservoirs are often more prosperous. Benton, Washington, Carroll, and Madison counties in Arkansas as well as Stone and Taney counties in Missouri are proof of this. As it is, modern environmentalism is dreadfully anti-human (especially anti-prosperity) and anti-progress. Aren't lakes like the Great Lakes or Crater Lake just stagnant, ugly pools of water? Wouldn't it be the same with natural damming from a rock slide (or in areas where it happens), a lava flow?
@@Jemalacane0 - The Great Lakes are one of most prolific fisheries in the world. The rivers in Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. are full of trout, salmon, steelhead, etc. The Great Lakes also are the largest freshwater lakes in the world. Crater Lake in southern Oregon is the most beautiful clear mountain lake you could imagine since it sits in the crater of an extinct volcano the water is so clear you can see for 50 feet or more down into it. There is only one motorized boat allowed on the lake to take tourists to/from Wizard Island. There is one hotel in the drainage of the lake and it is still as pure as it was thousands of years ago since no building is allowed and no septic tank drainage or forest spraying is done to cause lake contamination. Obviously you have never visited there as I consider the lake one of the wonders of the world since it is not spoiled as they have done to Lake Tahoe in California and Nevada. There has been so much building of homes, ski lodges, casinos, etc. around the lake that algae is growing the lake and it is not nearly as clear as it used to be 60 years ago when I first saw the lake.
'Order *an* copy'?
lol
It's interesting. I've read all the comments and the majority of them are for the dams. I'm all for progress. But so many of the people don't really know what's going on. I would call lake of the Ozarks a success. It's brought electricity and tourism to that area. The 2 worse things it did was stop the sturgeon from migrating up the river and force out the people of a low population area.
Truman however is an utter failure. Let's start with the dam it's self. It is supposed to be a hydro electric dam to produce power. Out of the 6 turbines at any given at most they run is 2. This is because the dam was built incorrectly. The turbine shafts where put in at the wrong angle. They can only run for about 2 months because the vibration is so bad it blows out the bearings and it takes months and lots of money to fix. Because of the design of the dam it can't be fixed, so will never produce what was promised. The low water dam that was in Osceola put out more than Truman. So the dam it self is a fail.
Like most dam projects all the people got forced out of their homes. But it also forced out several large industries. Canneries cheese plants plus several others. Which had a huge impact. Not to mention the obvious farming. People like to mention that the lake brought recreation and tourism which "created jobs" not really it did the opposite. It covered hundreds of fishing camps all along the river. These had people coming from all over the world. These would be completely filled with people and and all the hotels also. The banks would also be lined with just the day people.
The people never came back after the lake came, only one hotel is left and it was empty for decades. Most of the businesses that are designed around recreation and tourism generally only last a year or two. The people just don't come to support it.
Most of the towns are dead. Osceola is dieing fast and Clinton is pretty stagnant. The only one kinda growing is Warsaw. But most of the people who go there go on lake of the Ozarks and not Truman. So much for recreation and tourism.
The lake it self is filling with sediment because it's a muddy river. It's basically a filter for lake of the Ozarks. The Corp of engineers have also permanently lowered the water level. So with that they now have lots of new land and less lake.
With little power being produced and less recreation and tourism than there was, they didn't stand up to their promises and is a huge failure.
As for flood control when it floods it stays flooded for months because they can't let the water out as is really needed and that is because bagnal dam is on it's last leg and can't handle the influx of the extra water. It's in bad shape it's cracked and leaking to the point no one should live down stream of it.
As far as the book I couldn't say. I heard a bit of misinformation in the video that bothers me and don't how much more is in the book.
In the book, we don't contest that Lake of the Ozarks could be considered, as you say, a tourist "success." When it was built, the electricity was not available locally--it was delivered to lead mining in the St. Francois Mountains. Even today, only a little over 2 percent of the electricity used in Missouri comes from hydroelectric dams. What we point out in our book is Lake of the Ozarks was a scheme to enrich a corrupt banker and the corrupt management of Union Electric Company. Both of these personalities would end up doing time for their business practices in federal penitentiaries. As tourism has inherent economic problems, it is not a complete blessing either. Bagnell Dam didn't block the sturgeon, as Lock and Dam No. 1, built many years earlier near the mouth of the Osage, did that job long before Bagnell. (co-author of the book, Damming the Osage)
There is no conflict with intelligent people. Think about the flooding we currently have and add the amount of water held by Bagnel to the floods along the Mississippi in spring. I do enjoy the pictures but the percentage of Missouri covered in water by all the big lakes in the area is pretty small.
The effect of water storage in dams is to stop minor floods, which encourages floodplain development. Full reservoirs increase and prolong flooding.
If we listened to every enviomenleist there would be no progress made in this world. Unfortunately, we all have to make some sacrifices for our needs. Electricity this damn produces , benefits many thousands if not millions of people. In addition, the creation of this lake has created whole new industries and tourism dollars to this area.
I love how these "types" of people tell the public how bad this is...
I live in Clinton....I've never heard anyone say anything bad about about the opportunities brought by the project.
Example...
You say the paddlefish breeding grounds are gone..
The paddlefish are thriving...
The fishing at the reservoir is second to none...people come from all over the country to fish here...
We have a beautiful area ....many great things have developed from this project.
You want to always tell people how to look at nature...what to do and how to do it...
You never take part in anything that is not tainted in controversy..its what drives you...
You look at things through clouded eyes..
Actually...I feel sorry for you.
The paddlefish breeding grounds ARE GONE. The paddlefishery is sustained by stocking artificially bred fish. There is no natural reproduction.
"You always" and 'You never" comments are unanswerable in person and online. When you begin with those phrases you are not looking for an answer.
the Cleanest method of energy and an attraction that ultimately helped people thrive in the area. The only people who were conflicted were Hillbillies.
Hydroelectricity is indeed "clean" but in an area of relatively low relief like Missouri, it's a trivial source of electricity, amounting to only 1.32 percent of all the consumption of electricity in the state. Many studies by the University of Missouri have concluded that these dam projects do not show improvement for the local economy. Jobs are seasonal and low paying. Tourism is an unstable business overall. As for conflicted hillbillies - count my husband in!
Many dams in low relief areas consume a tremendous amount of energy to build vs. what they generate. Hillbillies = self-sufficient people.
@@mo-rfduck em we get a bad ass lake lol guess they can move over to kansas
What hypocritical drivel this is. You say that old towns are a relic of American history and culture. You longingly gaze at old bridges over the tributaries to the Osage river. You know, back in their day, towns going up where farms used to be, and bridges over rivers, degraded the natural environment just like you say the dams do. On the other hand, millions benefit from the lake(s) - from recreation, to power to flood control. How can you discuss Truman reservoir and Bagnell Dam without even mentioning clean renewable power and the thousands of lives saved by the flood control? This is one-sided nonsense with no supporting facts.
We are honored Brian that you took the time to share your deep thoughts about water resource management with us. Many of your assertions that this is “one-sided nonsense with no supporting facts” might be abated if you would read our 304-page book, Damming the Osage (available on Amazon). In it we quote numerous experts, most of whom are college professors with advance degrees. The fact is that low head dams on rivers with modest all-year water supplies are not a good investment. Hydropower from the Osage River is less than 1 percent of the state of Missouri’s power usage. If you think Corps of Engineers multipurpose dams are effective flood control why is the yearly cost of flood damage rising? As for the economics of reservoirs-numerous studies have concluded that the economies of counties that don’t have reservoirs are often healthier than the economies of counties that actually have reservoirs.
When you look into how “millions benefit from the lakes” you will find tourism is unstable, seasonal and is characterized by low paying, service industry jobs. Populations of retired people who move to these lakes use more services than their taxes put back into the economy. Tourism is notoriously fickle. Shallow, turbid, aging artificial lakes in the Midwest are not competitive with destinations with spectacular scenery, better accommodations and amenities, bigger advertising budgets or with widely recognized cultural assets. Condo sales pitches, souvenir shops, fast food, fishing tournaments, and Jet Ski rentals are not everyone’s idea of a vacation paradise. Of course then, there’s party cove!
You didn't address the key points to my response. You lovingly reported the old bridges you saw, but don't like the dam. Environmentalists find fault with any human activity, but you are picking and choosing here. You also did not address the power output of the dam. 1% of Missouri's power output is quite significant. After a quick search, Amren UE says they make 678,000 MWh. According to eia.gov, power in Missouri is 9.44 center per KWh. That means the dam makes about $64,000,000 in power revenue per year. Considering the dam's low cost back in the 1920's, this is a very economic and environmentally friendly source of power. How do you say its not a good investment? Bagnell is not a Corps of Engineers dam. Its also not a flood control dam. Why would you bring that up, unless you are mistaken about what Bagnell dam is?
When I state the fact that millions benefit from the lake, from tourists to local jobs, your response of tourism being unstable, seasonal or whatever is irrelevant. The dam has been here over 80 years and people choose to visit, and live at the lake. People are running businesses there. In fact, business is booming at the lake. Some of the largest boat dealers in the US are at the lake. Multi-million dollar mansions with heli-pads on the roofs are at the lake. Some of us think the lake IS spectacular scenery. Who cares if some mountain top or island is different scenery? Btw, the lake is close to many of us., making it far superior to more remote destinations.
Party cove is as relevant to the lake as Bourbon Street is to New Orleans or gay districts are to San Francisco. You've really lost your train of thought. If you wan to engage in real thought about dams like this one, get the facts straight and think of each issue from all sides.
Your vehement criticism of the content of our book, Damming the Osage, which you haven’t read, is paralleled by your painful unfamiliarity with the history of water resrouce development and its hydrological, economic, ecological, and societal impacts.
Thanks, however, Brian, for tipping us off that Bagnell Dam is not a Corps of Engineers project. It’s not for flood control-you’re kidding!
If you want to debate what the purposes are for the Bagnell dam, and who the owners/operators are, that is very important, so let's see if we can resolve that simple misunderstanding. According to Wiki, "Bagnell Dam impounds the Osage River ... for the purpose of hydroelectric power generation as its Osage Powerplant."
AmrenUE, who own and operate the dam, have a history page, and on it, it states, "In 1912, Ralph W. Street of Kansas City first proposed damming the Osage River to generate electricity." Why would a private company provide flood control to unassociated and unidentified strangers in the middle of Missouri?
If you check into the USACE, the USACE has a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with AmrenUE where, between them, they request and negotiate water releases from Truman and Bagnell. Of course, AmrenUE has final say for handling flood inflows and can release whatever they need if necessary.
www.nwk.usace.army.mil/Portals/29/docs/lakesites/BasinOperations.pdf
In contrast to Bagnell, USACE built and operates Truman, whose primary purpose is flood control for the lower Osage. Have your scholars noticed the difference?
www.nwk.usace.army.mil/Portals/29/docs/lakesites/BasinOperations.pdf
If you look at water levels, Truman fluctuates significantly, while Bagnell does not. Your standard "anti-government flood control dam" rhetoric is fully misplaced when used against Bagnell.
A very key point against your rhetoric is your statement that dams like this are "not a good investment". Investment means, "the action or process of investing money for profit or material result". Its like you want public policy changed against all dams. But, Bagnell was not a public project and it is profitable.
When discussing arguments and conclusions like presented in the book, the premise for those arguments must be dam solid (pun intended) ground. Bagnell is a solid investment for over 86 years and AmrenUE has put $52M more into it this year. This is a major over site by the scholars. Many of the premises on which your arguments are based, are incorrect, which invalidates the major conclusions.
If you want to criticize Bagnell, you'll have to consider profit, tax, clean energy, cooperative flood control (with Truman), recreation, quality of life and other factors, to compare with the faults you identified. Your book failed to do so.
Here is an article written yesterday, identifying who operates which dams and how Bagnell floods down stream at its convenience.
www.lakeexpo.com/weather/lake-of-the-ozarks-crests-as-bagnell-dam-floodgates-release/article_ecb17364-2de6-11e7-9f04-73c77d8d4199.html
I'm not sure how the scholars got this arrangement so confused.
Was ok ! But the mid Missouri take down of the dams in the Meremac basin and especially the Big River Irondale area and Union Bourbese rivers were a huge mistake! Today many acres and homes could have been saved by daming the Big River, and Bourbese at their previous locations
The problem with the Corps of Engineers multipurpose dam program was that there simply isn't enough storage of water to protect developments from really large ain events. What the flood control projects do is protect floodplains from small floods, thereby encouraging development that is catastrophically damaged by major floods. The Corps of Engineers has had its way with dams on the Mississippi system and yet flood damage continues to mount. These realities were well known by Corps hydrologists but ignored by the political and economic dam-building juggernaut.
Not sure why you all are giving this subject any of your time! I believe the dams are built, people are using the area for recreation, floods have been controlled(mostly), and you all benefit from renewable power! Good lord you all need to adjust to something, and move ahead! Your forefathers moved on with the changes in their world!
Recreation built around artificial reservoirs is a mixed bag. Some projects do have heavy usage but other aquatic deserts. Flood damage in the Mississippi system increases annually. These multipurpose dams do control minor floods, which encourages encroachment on the floodplains. Then when a major rain event occurs the damage is catastrophic. When reservoirs are full they add to the flood crest and duration. These simple hydrologic truths are not well understood.
@@crystalpayton589 Recreation is anything but a mixed bag. Lots of people like swimming, fishing, and boating in the lakes.
I am sorry but this is also dishonest journalism. Trying to selectively show only one side of an issue and in so doing only appealing to the feelings of the viewer/reader is dishonest.
oh boo hoo. such a shame you cant take pictures anymore...
This was a Fargin snooze fest