What's your favorite movie with Arnold? Don't forget to check out my patreon for bonus content, early access and uncut reactions: www.patreon.com/c/PennyisWatching
Of Arnold Schwarzenegger's fifty-one movies I think my favourite is "True Lies" (1994), though there are occasions when I would say "Conan the Barbarian" (1982). "Predator" (1987) is second, and "Commando" (1985) a distant third that is only included at all here because it is so ridiculously over the top with the guns and explosions.
15:57 You are the only person that has ever reacted to this movie, that spotted Marc Alaimo, that played Gul Dukat. Instant subscribe! Definitely going to check out all of your content, and go over to Twitch too, to see you there.
Is what is happening to Quaid just a fantasy taking place in his head while he is strapped in a chair at Rekall? I was long resistant to the idea myself. But over the years, I've become persuaded that this is almost certainly the case. Even so, the film is sufficiently ambiguous that people can argue back-and-forth about it and never resolve the question absolutely.
Hello Penny, nice to see you!😊 I hope everything is going well in Italy!😉 I am very glad you are concluding your Verhoeven trilogy of futuristic violent films. I think if he knew how appreciative people would be for these films years later he may of made more of them. Great reactions to this fun Verhoeven film, Penny!!!!🎬👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This movie's red pill for awakening came before the red pill in "The Matrix." "Total Recall" is based on a story by writer Philip K. Dick, whose stories also provided the background for "Minority Report" and "Blade Runner." You may have recognized Cohaagen from "Robocop" (as Dick Jones). Another movie from this era in which he plays a role is "Beverly Hills Cop." Great that you've now seen the Verhoeven scifi trilogy; excellent films! He's also known for "Basic Instinct" with Sharon Stone.
And "Screamers" (1995), "Impostor" (2002), "Paycheck" (2003), "Next" (2007), "Radio Free Albemuth" (2010), and "The Adjustment Bureau" (2011). But not including french non-science fiction movies.
I'm so glad that you liked this great film, Penny, I loved seeing your reaction to it. Arnie films which I recommend are: "Conan the Barbarian" 1982 Fantasy/adventure, "Conan the Destroyer" 1984 Fantasy/adventure, "Commando" 1985 Action, "Predator" 1987 Action, "Twins" 1988 Comedy, "Kindergarten Cop" 1990 Comedy/crime/thriller, "True Lies" 1994 Spy/action/adventure, "End of Days" 1999 Horror/adventure. These are my favourites, but there are many more, Penny.
Thank you. I love the fact that for every argument that Douglas Quaid is living happily on Mars there is a counter argument that he is laying in a hospital bed in a coma, dying. There is no way to tell from the movie which is true.
Hello! Glad you enjoyed TR. You need to watch Mel Gibson's APOCALYPTO 2006. Best film of the year with an incredible cinematography. Just beware some scenes are very disturbing and haunting but a must see! Have a great day
There's a huge amount of water on Mars [and the Moon] but there are lots of other reasons this wouldn't work even with alien tech. Doesn't matter, it's a fun film. Great reaction, Penny.
Great reaction! Don't be too upset--the overall theme of the film is the ambiguity of reality (something that Philip K. Dick often explored in his writing). There are clues which point to Quaid's adventure being real and other clues which point to it being unreal. The whole idea of implanting memories calls into question the reality of experience, and then the film takes it to a meta level with the ambiguity of Quaid's adventure. It's brilliant, in my opinion. The first thing we see is Quaid's dream with Melina, which may have occurred with Quaid as Hauser, except for the fall which turned it into a nightmare. That happened before he went to Rekall, so it can point to Quaid's experience being real. However, then we see Melina's image when Quaid is selecting his love interest in the memory implant, which doesn't seem possible in reality. In the end it's intended to be ambiguous... From a technical point of view, it's highly unlikely that the reactor could produce enough 'oxygen' in a such a short time to save Quaid and Melina, so that makes it seem unreal. Note that simply heating ice (frozen H2O) produces water and then steam (water vapor), not oxygen. To produce oxygen it is necessary to liquify the ice and then use an electric current to separate the hydrogen and oxygen (electrolysis). It did not appear that this was being done, but I'm not going to fault the film for this because it's too technical for this type of movie. Alien technology can always be made to do anything we want it to do, so maybe it was more sophisticated than what was depicted. However, you can't simply let the hydrogen and oxygen mingle as an atmosphere because it would explosively recombine. There is only a trace amount of hydrogen in our atmosphere--the majority of air is nitrogen (78%) and oxygen (21%). So the alien apparatus would also have to capture the hydrogen as it was being produced, or combine it with some other element to prevent it from being released as a gas. It would then be an essentially 100% oxygen atmosphere, which is not healthy for humans long term (astronauts breathe pure oxygen in their spacesuits, but inside the International Space Station they breathe a nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere).
Never read the book, but I feel they intentionally left it for the audience to wonder if the events of the film were an implanted memory or real. I lean to implantation.
24ish Time travel. The movie is stealing Penny's jokes! 9 39 Penny says she would be disappointed if Sharon Stone was not her wife. Male viewers: Cool, tell us more ... 9 43ish Penny, "I don't think I like women". Male viewers: Ah, damn it.
While I lean towards strong blonde women with blue eyes after a dark haired and eyed woman burned me, Penny does has a sexy voice I could enjoy. I wouldn't trust Sharon Stone either.
I think it has to be real because if Recall was trying to make it look like a genuine memory, they would avoid using their brand name inside his dream otherwise what's the point, when he wakes up he will definitely know it was a fake dream. that is one of many reasons.
You can confirm either hypothesis. The clincher for me is that we're dealing with Arnie and Shazzer Stone. Of course it must be real, when you think about it 😏❤️
Verhoeven said his movie has evidence for both it really happened, and it didn't happen because it was a dream. The evidence is contradictory so there's no correct answer. I like to think it really happened.
I have seen this movie probably over twenty times and I still don't know if it was a dream or not because the entire plot is exactly what he was sold in rekall at the beginning and remember Melina was the image of athletic woman he chose for his implant. I will forever be confused on this matter 😊
If it all where a dream, wouldn't be the entire movie from Quaid's point of view? Usually you don't dream what others do in the dream that are outside your perception. He wouldn't dream his pursuer's talking to each other or Richter talking to Lorie and Cohagen. That's my proof for everything being real. Mind I also heard about the book the movie is loosely based on, which has an apparently even crazy story.
Out of all of Arnold's movie that I have seen, this is my favorite of the bunch, but I would also say he has better overall films than this one. But this having a Sci-Fi and mistaken identity level story, it was a merging of two great genres I didn't know I needed until watching this movie. This is a true classic, that has withstood the test of time, and do yourself a favor Penny, and don't bother watching the reboot, as I couldn't even stay awake while trying to watch it.
For it to be real the first dream would have to be real but he died in that dream. Plus his wife was planted to make sure he didn't remember anything, but apparently having dreams about Mars every night and having a strong desire to go there wasn't worth reporting?
If you like the "cheesyness" of Arnold Schwarzenegger (like I do), you also gonna love Silvester Stallone's roles in *Judge Dredd* (the original one from 1995, not the copy from 2012) and *Demolition Man* from 1993. Oh, another Schwarzenegger movie to recommend: *True Lies* from 1994.
Penny and Total Recall for breakfast! YES! Just in time for cornflakes! One of the best reactions to this film. My admiration when the Dr. from Recall and Sharon Stone tried to fool him. Many reactors started doubting at this point. You did not. I saw it coming when you made the ‘divorce’ joke and Arnie stole your thunder. I just burst out laughing! The way you responded to the ending! Bravo! The first time I saw this in theater, I was content for the happy ending and left it at that. But years later, many have come to look at the ending the way you did. Your jokes go beyond the films you react to. I will now hear them whenever I see Kane go near the ALIEN egg. “How romantic. Now kiss me through the helmet.”🤣🤣
That's IT finally I reckon it in fact was his rekall implant, everything happened as advertised and the blue sky at the end finalised it for me and as for the doctor showing up was part of the adventure. In other words he is Howser for real, a construction worker married to Sharon stone and he would have woken up with everything going back to normal and with a new memory of the adventure he just had ( implanted ).
Another brilliant story from Phillip K Dick. It wasn't a dream. He discovers his real identity when he goes to Rekall so not a dream within a dream. If you want that watch "Inception" As always brilliant deadpan comedy Penny! Someone in the comments said see "Dredd" and I couldn't agree more. Great film.
Part II 😁 "Do you think the ACTUAL story was ACTUALLY true"??? 🤣 WOW! You are the only one I know of that thought that! I think the actual is the actual! ☯️☮️
Is it a dream or is it real? There's the third option: he was lobotomized. But the interesting thing is, if the events are real then the character -- Quad -- is only a dream. If Quad is real, then the events are a dream. So regardless of what side you're on: the main protagonist or the events are a dream.
It's not a matter of holding your breath. The pressure is so low on Mars, there is very little atmosphere, that your insides will boil outward. We are under pressure here on Earth, and as you go down into the ocean, the pressure increases so that if you shake a can of Coke and open it inside a submarine, it won't explode out because the pressure is higher than in the can.
If this was a dream that Recall implanted, then why would they have him fighting and killing his wife? That's not gonna work out well when he goes home to his wife who he remembers shooting in the head
You talk a bit too much for my taste but at least your comments are usually kinda funny and not just repeating whatever is happening or constantly asking questions. And your accent is very appealing.
Wow! You did Steve Buscemi dirty!!! Still, you truly crack me up with your golden quips. Please, Penny, please . . . I’m begging you . . . do me one real big favor . . . never, NEVER watch the “Total Recall” remake from 2012!!! It was an amazing cast: Colin Farrell, Bryan Cranston, Jessica Biel, Bill Nighy, and the beautiful Beckinsale . . . but it’s also a Total Disaster that’s no where near as good as the Arnie version. DS9 is the best!!! You know your stuff. Caio! 😉👍
Not a fan of this movie. Great idea just many bad decisions. I like the new one visually, technically and Kate Beckinsaleee 💕❣️🌹 Have you seen the UNDERWORLDS?? Kate as a Vampiress! 😍 Peace 🕊️☮️♾️
@clh35 Didn't say I "LIKED" the new one!! BTW the newer one is newer than the old one!! I said it was V I S U A L L Y more appealing and I am a Kate Beckinsale fan! Why do dudes in their 30's (?) need to be spoon fed? Formula versus Tit is my guess?
What's your favorite movie with Arnold?
Don't forget to check out my patreon for bonus content, early access and uncut reactions: www.patreon.com/c/PennyisWatching
You are Israeli, not Italian.
Terminator II: Judgement Day
Have to go with Terminator 2 and I like Kindergarten Cop!!☯️☮️
Of Arnold Schwarzenegger's fifty-one movies I think my favourite is "True Lies" (1994), though there are occasions when I would say "Conan the Barbarian" (1982). "Predator" (1987) is second, and "Commando" (1985) a distant third that is only included at all here because it is so ridiculously over the top with the guns and explosions.
The Last Action Hero.
0:58 Penny, you are the queen of deadpan comedy. On the occasion that I come up with a line like that, I can't help but giggle at my own joke.
Good eyes! I seen DS9 and Total Recall countless times, and I never recognized Gul Dukat
15:57 You are the only person that has ever reacted to this movie, that spotted Marc Alaimo, that played Gul Dukat. Instant subscribe! Definitely going to check out all of your content, and go over to Twitch too, to see you there.
Recognizing the actor who plays Gul Dukat will make any Trekkie watching fall in love with you.
It did!!! 😍
"Now he looks like Steve Buscemi" 😅😅😅😅😅😅
The Steve Buscemi crack was spot on. 🤣🤣🤣👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾Great reaction!
Is what is happening to Quaid just a fantasy taking place in his head while he is strapped in a chair at Rekall? I was long resistant to the idea myself. But over the years, I've become persuaded that this is almost certainly the case. Even so, the film is sufficiently ambiguous that people can argue back-and-forth about it and never resolve the question absolutely.
Hello Penny, nice to see you!😊 I hope everything is going well in Italy!😉 I am very glad you are concluding your Verhoeven trilogy of futuristic violent films. I think if he knew how appreciative people would be for these films years later he may of made more of them. Great reactions to this fun Verhoeven film, Penny!!!!🎬👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This movie's red pill for awakening came before the red pill in "The Matrix." "Total Recall" is based on a story by writer Philip K. Dick, whose stories also provided the background for "Minority Report" and "Blade Runner." You may have recognized Cohaagen from "Robocop" (as Dick Jones). Another movie from this era in which he plays a role is "Beverly Hills Cop."
Great that you've now seen the Verhoeven scifi trilogy; excellent films! He's also known for "Basic Instinct" with Sharon Stone.
And Richter was in Starship troopers
Movies based on Philip K. Dick stories,
Total Recall
Blade Runner
Minority Report
A Scanner Darkly.
And "Screamers" (1995), "Impostor" (2002), "Paycheck" (2003), "Next" (2007), "Radio Free Albemuth" (2010), and "The Adjustment Bureau" (2011). But not including french non-science fiction movies.
Poor Michael Ironside (Richter). He keeps losing arms in the movies.
Penny, you would be a great Morticia Addams for Halloween!
I'm so glad that you liked this great film, Penny, I loved seeing your reaction to it.
Arnie films which I recommend are:
"Conan the Barbarian" 1982 Fantasy/adventure,
"Conan the Destroyer" 1984 Fantasy/adventure,
"Commando" 1985 Action,
"Predator" 1987 Action,
"Twins" 1988 Comedy,
"Kindergarten Cop" 1990 Comedy/crime/thriller,
"True Lies" 1994 Spy/action/adventure,
"End of Days" 1999 Horror/adventure.
These are my favourites, but there are many more, Penny.
I would REALLY like to see her Conan reactions, yes.
Don't forget other Verhoeven classics such as Basic Instinct, Showgirls and Hollow Man.
"I am crazy, not in this way..." So in which ways are you crazy? Asking for a friend.
While Quaid was out cold, the red-headed assistant at Recall said they never implanted the memories. That part can't be a memory of his.
"think about it. we can go and die there." 🤣 SO FUNNY, love your humour! 😂 what a GREAT REACTION, really enjoyed it! 👍☺
Great Reaction 👍👍👍. I love how fast you understand the plot points.
Thank you.
I love the fact that for every argument that Douglas Quaid is living happily on Mars there is a counter argument that he is laying in a hospital bed in a coma, dying. There is no way to tell from the movie which is true.
I see the fade to white at the end, instead of a more conventional fade to black, as a sign it was a dream/implanted memory.
I love this movie! By the way you look like Baroness! :)
Cobra!
You are amazing Penny! Love the reactions!❤
Hello! Glad you enjoyed TR. You need to watch Mel Gibson's APOCALYPTO 2006. Best film of the year with an incredible cinematography. Just beware some scenes are very disturbing and haunting but a must see! Have a great day
I saw this movie as a teenage boy and never recovered from that triple sight either.
There's a huge amount of water on Mars [and the Moon] but there are lots of other reasons this wouldn't work even with alien tech. Doesn't matter, it's a fun film. Great reaction, Penny.
This movie is way up there on my list of favorites from Arnold. The Running Man is pretty high too.
Great reaction! Don't be too upset--the overall theme of the film is the ambiguity of reality (something that Philip K. Dick often explored in his writing). There are clues which point to Quaid's adventure being real and other clues which point to it being unreal. The whole idea of implanting memories calls into question the reality of experience, and then the film takes it to a meta level with the ambiguity of Quaid's adventure. It's brilliant, in my opinion. The first thing we see is Quaid's dream with Melina, which may have occurred with Quaid as Hauser, except for the fall which turned it into a nightmare. That happened before he went to Rekall, so it can point to Quaid's experience being real. However, then we see Melina's image when Quaid is selecting his love interest in the memory implant, which doesn't seem possible in reality. In the end it's intended to be ambiguous...
From a technical point of view, it's highly unlikely that the reactor could produce enough 'oxygen' in a such a short time to save Quaid and Melina, so that makes it seem unreal. Note that simply heating ice (frozen H2O) produces water and then steam (water vapor), not oxygen. To produce oxygen it is necessary to liquify the ice and then use an electric current to separate the hydrogen and oxygen (electrolysis). It did not appear that this was being done, but I'm not going to fault the film for this because it's too technical for this type of movie. Alien technology can always be made to do anything we want it to do, so maybe it was more sophisticated than what was depicted. However, you can't simply let the hydrogen and oxygen mingle as an atmosphere because it would explosively recombine. There is only a trace amount of hydrogen in our atmosphere--the majority of air is nitrogen (78%) and oxygen (21%). So the alien apparatus would also have to capture the hydrogen as it was being produced, or combine it with some other element to prevent it from being released as a gas. It would then be an essentially 100% oxygen atmosphere, which is not healthy for humans long term (astronauts breathe pure oxygen in their spacesuits, but inside the International Space Station they breathe a nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere).
That ambiguity is part of why it’s such a great movie.
Great reaction! Looking nice as always 😊
This movie is childhood memories for me I miss the 90s my childhood. Great reaction to this Arnold Sci Fi classic
Never read the book, but I feel they intentionally left it for the audience to wonder if the events of the film were an implanted memory or real. I lean to implantation.
The Author. Phillip K. Dick left it up to his readers to determine whether it was real or a dream. The movie does the same.
"Now he looks like Steve Buscemi" 🤣😂
24ish Time travel. The movie is stealing Penny's jokes!
9 39 Penny says she would be disappointed if Sharon Stone was not her wife. Male viewers: Cool, tell us more ...
9 43ish Penny, "I don't think I like women". Male viewers: Ah, damn it.
I think I leaned forward in my chair when she said that.
While I lean towards strong blonde women with blue eyes after a dark haired and eyed woman burned me, Penny does has a sexy voice I could enjoy. I wouldn't trust Sharon Stone either.
It was not a dream. It actually happened.
I think it has to be real because if Recall was trying to make it look like a genuine memory, they would avoid using their brand name inside his dream otherwise what's the point, when he wakes up he will definitely know it was a fake dream. that is one of many reasons.
Excellent reaction as always.
You can confirm either hypothesis. The clincher for me is that we're dealing with Arnie and Shazzer Stone. Of course it must be real, when you think about it 😏❤️
Verhoeven said his movie has evidence for both it really happened, and it didn't happen because it was a dream. The evidence is contradictory so there's no correct answer. I like to think it really happened.
Penny is awesome!
Definitely an awesome Woman.
Do you dream of a vacation…
Do you dream of electric sheep?🐑
(Philip K Dick)
Bladerunner next please
I choose to believe it was NOT a dream.
I have seen this movie probably over twenty times and I still don't know if it was a dream or not because the entire plot is exactly what he was sold in rekall at the beginning and remember Melina was the image of athletic woman he chose for his implant. I will forever be confused on this matter 😊
Blue sky on Mars...then it happens? Yeah. Dream.
I think you're the only reactor I've seen who's picked Gul Dukat. Based.
If it all where a dream, wouldn't be the entire movie from Quaid's point of view? Usually you don't dream what others do in the dream that are outside your perception. He wouldn't dream his pursuer's talking to each other or Richter talking to Lorie and Cohagen.
That's my proof for everything being real.
Mind I also heard about the book the movie is loosely based on, which has an apparently even crazy story.
Out of all of Arnold's movie that I have seen, this is my favorite of the bunch, but I would also say he has better overall films than this one. But this having a Sci-Fi and mistaken identity level story, it was a merging of two great genres I didn't know I needed until watching this movie. This is a true classic, that has withstood the test of time, and do yourself a favor Penny, and don't bother watching the reboot, as I couldn't even stay awake while trying to watch it.
Great reaction as always!
Hi Penny. Your reactions never disappointment. BTW, if ever you farm your voice out for SatNav, I'll be first in line. ; )
I recall 1990.
I’m I love a hot chick that can recognize Gul - Dukat mean she is a Trekkie unicorn kinda gal ❤️❤️❤️
Ouch!
For it to be real the first dream would have to be real but he died in that dream. Plus his wife was planted to make sure he didn't remember anything, but apparently having dreams about Mars every night and having a strong desire to go there wasn't worth reporting?
Schwartzenegger is at his best when falling down cliffs
If you like the "cheesyness" of Arnold Schwarzenegger (like I do), you also gonna love Silvester Stallone's roles in *Judge Dredd* (the original one from 1995, not the copy from 2012) and *Demolition Man* from 1993. Oh, another Schwarzenegger movie to recommend: *True Lies* from 1994.
Have you ever seen "Rocky and Bullwinkle"? Because, I hope that this is in no way insulting, but you remind me of Natasha. Good reaction.
You Can tell there goes a class comedian when so much of the plot involves Mars and she didn't do a single Uranus quip! 😎
Reminder: Don't stick anything up your nose.
Penny and Total Recall for breakfast! YES! Just in time for cornflakes! One of the best reactions to this film. My admiration when the Dr. from Recall and Sharon Stone tried to fool him. Many reactors started doubting at this point. You did not. I saw it coming when you made the ‘divorce’ joke and Arnie stole your thunder. I just burst out laughing! The way you responded to the ending! Bravo! The first time I saw this in theater, I was content for the happy ending and left it at that. But years later, many have come to look at the ending the way you did. Your jokes go beyond the films you react to. I will now hear them whenever I see Kane go near the ALIEN egg. “How romantic. Now kiss me through the helmet.”🤣🤣
Watch and review Dark City (1998), the director's cut edition. You'll thank me later. 😉
That's IT finally I reckon it in fact was his rekall implant, everything happened as advertised and the blue sky at the end finalised it for me and as for the doctor showing up was part of the adventure. In other words he is Howser for real, a construction worker married to Sharon stone and he would have woken up with everything going back to normal and with a new memory of the adventure he just had ( implanted ).
Wouldn't he be really Quaid? Quaid was married to Lori.
Another brilliant story from Phillip K Dick. It wasn't a dream. He discovers his real identity when he goes to Rekall so not a dream within a dream. If you want that watch "Inception" As always brilliant deadpan comedy Penny! Someone in the comments said see "Dredd" and I couldn't agree more. Great film.
Speaking of the ads I've been quoting "I'll buy that for a dollar" from RoboCop for over 30 years 👍
Part II 😁 "Do you think the ACTUAL story was ACTUALLY true"??? 🤣 WOW! You are the only one I know of that thought that! I think the actual is the actual! ☯️☮️
Is it a dream or is it real? There's the third option: he was lobotomized. But the interesting thing is, if the events are real then the character -- Quad -- is only a dream. If Quad is real, then the events are a dream. So regardless of what side you're on: the main protagonist or the events are a dream.
It's not a matter of holding your breath. The pressure is so low on Mars, there is very little atmosphere, that your insides will boil outward. We are under pressure here on Earth, and as you go down into the ocean, the pressure increases so that if you shake a can of Coke and open it inside a submarine, it won't explode out because the pressure is higher than in the can.
The pressure inside a submarine is roughly the same as at sea level.
If this was a dream that Recall implanted, then why would they have him fighting and killing his wife? That's not gonna work out well when he goes home to his wife who he remembers shooting in the head
Good movie reaction. May i suggest a Steven Seagal movie as your future reaction. Thanks hun. Have a blessed day.
Dredd from 2012 with Karl Urban, Olivia Thirlby and Leana Headey is BLOODY brilliant. A great soundtrack too
I respect your opinion. But in my eyes, Dredd from 2012 is just a cheap copy of the original from 1995.
@@d_mosimann I like you! You're a funny guy 👍
Beware of Artificial Intelligence.
You talk a bit too much for my taste but at least your comments are usually kinda funny and not just repeating whatever is happening or constantly asking questions. And your accent is very appealing.
Wow! You did Steve Buscemi dirty!!! Still, you truly crack me up with your golden quips. Please, Penny, please . . . I’m begging you . . . do me one real big favor . . . never, NEVER watch the “Total Recall” remake from 2012!!! It was an amazing cast: Colin Farrell, Bryan Cranston, Jessica Biel, Bill Nighy, and the beautiful Beckinsale . . . but it’s also a Total Disaster that’s no where near as good as the Arnie version.
DS9 is the best!!! You know your stuff. Caio! 😉👍
This is the good TOTAL RECALL (1990) movie. The one from 2012 is awful.
Not a fan of this movie. Great idea just many bad decisions. I like the new one visually, technically and Kate Beckinsaleee 💕❣️🌹 Have you seen the UNDERWORLDS?? Kate as a Vampiress! 😍 Peace 🕊️☮️♾️
Wow, I've never heard a single person say they liked the "new" one better. It's unwatchable, and it's a dozen years old now, btw.
@clh35 Didn't say I "LIKED" the new one!! BTW the newer one is newer than the old one!! I said it was V I S U A L L Y more appealing and I am a Kate Beckinsale fan! Why do dudes in their 30's (?) need to be spoon fed? Formula versus Tit is my guess?