I really hope the survivors of the attack are encouraged to reach out to accredited mental health counselling, even just a couple times, to decompress and process what happened. It's a horrifying traumatic thing to happen and I hope they all recover with as little long-term effects as can be hoped for.
A quote Mr. Rogers gave in the wake of the death of John Lennon, I think. "My mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.' To this day, especially in times of disaster, I remember my mother's words, and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers, so many caring people in this world."
I hope this encourages authorities to look more into the organization. And look into how they handle matters. You're so right. There are a lot of good people in the organisation who just want to strengthen their faith. The evil is mostly from the top, the GB. This needs to be urgently addressed.
Darth Magog, thanks for all you do. It people like you who free people from the clutches of these scams. I was freed from Mormonism a little over a year ago now, and I can’t even express how thankful I am. Keep doing what your are doing! *Also first comment 😂
Welcome to the free world! I hate to see the attacks, but I'm glad people are getting away peacefully. Really hoping the families can find some healing soon :(
Thank you George. I felt it was important to comment on. It's easy to forget that these folks are our loved ones, trapped in this cult. I hope no one has to go through this again, there's never a reason for violence to be the way you protest Jehovah's Witnesses
Yes, indeed. German laws concerning weapons are already very strict but unfortunately this strictness is not consistently applied to all dangerous weapons. And there are also some not very dangerous weapons (especially kid's toys that can be used for sportive activities) that are unnecessary harshly regulated. So according to many professionals more realism is needed for German weapon laws - which also includes stricter laws for some weapons but not for all of them.
I love your closing statement. It just saddens me that the only members that would ever watch that are the ones already on the way out. It’s the ones still deep inside that need to hear that most.
I'm always so thankful to see a new video from you, even with such painful and difficult topics; you have a unique way of gently guiding your viewers through dark subjects while also informing us. Thank you for making this; i can tell it wasn't easy. Please be sure to self-care; sometimes when i hear news that hurts, it helps me to hug a plushie and cry. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but i figured i'd put it out there anyway just in case.
Very kind words Mr Magog, I agree with you that many many jws desperately need therapy but are told to pray etc. Also all that hate instilled since childhood causes immense stress on one's mind...so very sad 😭
Sending out thoughts and my heart to those who lost their loved ones because of the senseless violence I give a thousand condolences! I may not be a Jehovah witness but this act of violence is not tolerated
Agreed. I fully support protest. I make fun of the policies. Hell I've made plenty of jokes about the Governing Body myself. But this is completely wrong, no one deserves to be hurt like this
It's not about mental health or else all people who kill and then commit suicide are mentally ill. NO, the desperation of some people can cause tragedies. If the policy of ostracism institutionalized by the Watchtower causes the despair of certain EXJW to the point of committing the irreparable then this person is not mad but his despair reaches a paroxysm. All followers who support this policy are also guilty. Unfortunately, all the victims are collateral victims of this policy of avoidance.
This happened here! I live in Hamburg, so does my family, almost all of whom are JW, luckily no one I know personally attended that meeting (for context: I was raised as JW, but luckily never got baptized so that after I left while enrolled in college my family is still in touch with me). Needless to say that this tragedy makes me feel incredibly conflicted. Like you said Darth, I do not wish harm on any JW and can't even imagine the trauma and loss these people must have gone through and probably still go through. My brother (non JW) has a co-worker (JW) who was close friends with one of the men killed in the shooting who was unable to come to work for weeks after the incident, and my parents' neighbors (All JW) were also friends with people from that congregation, so the JW community here in Hamburg is deeply shook by this. That being said, I just know that this senseless act of violence ultimately won't make them question their practice of shunning and disfellowshipping and that this tragedy will ultimately be twisted and interpreted as 'yet another sign' of them living in the last days, and them having to cling even tighter to their belief system. I couldn't bring myself to attend the JW service of the shooting or talk much to my JW family members about it. My mother was almost beaming with pride when she once mentioned how often JW were namedropped and discussed here on the local news (conveniently ignoring that many reports were critical of the JW belief system etc) and all that just felt so wrong to me. There was another grand memorial service co-hosted by different Christian branches here in HH that offered a space not only for JW but also for the police, their staff, first responders, chaplains etc, to process the event and their grief. As far as I know no JW attended that one, although they had been explicitly invited.The city also had a book opened for people from our city to write in their codolences. That book was later handed over to JW as a gift (which they publicly acknowledged and appreciated). Ironically this shooting incident triggered me to finally look back and to start processing my JW upbringing and what this has done to me (after 6 years of strictly looking ahead and focusing on building my own life post-JW) which is how I stumbled across this lovely channel! Thank you Darth for doing the work of presenting information and context so that people like me can recover and heal from this organization
You nailed it!!! I'm a former jw.. and this very sad there are going to be more to come please be safe out there to ALL MY BROTHERS & SISTERS if u r still in the kingdom hall or ex jws pleae be safe
Same here, i hate what it does to people and how it magnifies all thats wrong. I wonder if proper mental health care was provided and encouraged, could these lives have been saved?
Has anyone investigated his social media, my lord? This sort of attack, no matter the reason, turns my stomach. Whether it be anger at a religious organization or anger at an individual or anything in between, it’s just senseless and evil. Uvalde and Sandy Hook broke me inside…
According to Spiegel he had his own website advertising his business coaching services. He had college degrees and described himself as growing up in a protestant family. He seems to have been a later in life convert but couldn't find any more on that yet. He released his own book that was filled with his fanatic religious views (like his own end time prophecies and deeply misogynist views) . Also Authorities seem to have received an anonymous message about his hate towards jws that would make him unfit to own a weapon. Sadly he seemed mentally fit when they checked on him.
In the German media there is already a lot about his background. He came from a strictly religious evangelical (maybe Lutheran Protestant) family in a more rural area in Southern Germany. But so far I wasn't able to clearly find out whether his family are Jehova's witnesses or whether he joined the organization later on. He worked as a business consultant and tried to build up his own business but didn't seem to have had any clients yet. He also seemed to have had some delusion of grandeur since he asked for 250.000€, just for one commission. Before his own business he did a sabbatical to be able to write a book in which he claimed to be the first to really explain the interactions between heaven and earth: „The Truth About God, Jesus Christ and Satan: A New Reflected View of Epochal Dimensions“. (Through the book title you can still find out about his full name. I think it's a typical German thing not to officially release someone's last name in situations like this.) So I'm not sure whether he found the JWs because of this new found stronger religious convictions or whether he left them because of it. He also talks about religious topics quite a lot on his website and linkedin, he offered services incl. controlling and theology. But seems like German authorities already took down his bizarre website and social media, often to not foster imitation. Police and government won't look more into the ongoings at JW congregations, beyond tangible complaints about crimes. But the German public already is getting educated about the reality of being a JW 😊 I've seen news reports with titles like: "Complete isolation." In this one an Ex-JW tells his story what leaving the organization meant for his social life. And what growing up as a JW was like. He also stressed that all of his Ex-JW acquaintances are shocked to hear about the event. And there was even information about self-help groups for Ex-JW and how to find help if you want to leave👍 So at least more people learn about the organization even if it's a sad occasion 😓
@@Myladyinred999 He was brought up a JW not evangelical. Belongs to a devout JW family. You tuber wife knows the family. J_Traum(a)welt_W is the channel it’s German but through subtitles can be changed to English. His name is Jason Wittmann. Rest of what you stated is correct. The book was published in December and situation went downhill after that. A very sad tragedy
My heart goes out to them I am against the organization but I don't anyone die for there Faith because it only pulls them Deeper into there blind mindset against others of the outside world master Magog. ♥️😥😢😨😰😨😿💔
I just started Phone therapy a two weeks ago for my Anxiety & has been on medication & my fur baby helps me to handle it & on Anti Depression medication to treat voices of Self harm never to something so hateful master Magog. 😥😢😰😨😿💔♥️
I can ask some JW members that is outside my favorite Library on Tuesday about any Fund Raising Charity that is going to be put together for the victims & survivors & there Families Master Magog & Commander Fives but so my cover isn't blown I won't mention you though. 😿😢😥😇♥️💔💰
Omg that's really awful. Those lives lost and the poor woman who lost her baby it's really tragic. JW or not no and I mean no one should have go through something like this. It always sickens me knowing people like that man exist and don't care about who they harm💗🥺
I agree with you. Most ordinary JWs are really lovely people. The evil is those 9 men in New York. They are to blame for all this. The shunning is evil.
We need to bring AWARENESS to the government and to the public about Watchtower's cover up of child SEXUAL ABUSE and SHUNNING PRACTICES that rob people of free will and break up 💔 of family. PROTEST PROTEST PROTEST. OCTOBER 31ST 2023 IN WASHINGTON D.C AT THE WHITE HOUSE. WE MUST SAVE THE LIVES OF OUR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS. PLAN TO ATTEND THE PROTEST. THIS PROTEST IS PERMITTED AND APPROVED. LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD
Thank you for your words of comfort and providing the truth. This is such a horrible thing that happened. Words can never describe it fully. One can only hope for the future
I've been copying my grandma's recipe notes into a book lately to save them, so I was over at her house working on that tonight and this was on the TV. She said, "Well you can tell who the shooter is bc he won't be in a suit!" Like... You're possibly/probably right Gma but technically nothing was stopping the guy from doing the shooting in a suit... And also, you can tell who the shooter is bc he'll be the one with, yanno, a gun... Anyways though senseless violence sucks and no point is ever made by it. Let's use our Big Boy and Girl Voices instead.
This was a very balanced summary at a difficult time. I would like to add my voice to yours and those of all decent people condemning this senseless violence. I call on Watchtower leadership and elected Governmental representatives to take real steps to reduce the likelihood of future incidents, starting with enforcing the right to freedom of religion by ending the unnecessary and indefinite mental torture of former believers through shunning.
It is my belief that these tragedies are caused by shunning. Either due to not having to support needed to get help or, more than likely, going off the deep end because all of the only support they have ever known has been ripped away. Shunning wasn’t always doctrine and it doesn’t need to remain that way. There is no solid biblical backing for it. It designed solely to keep people in the cult, and people who are in away from people who might take them away.
Agreed on both counts. We have some hope, if the branch in Norway is being honest about no longer disfellowshipping it's members, then we may see it applied across the organization.
A part of me wishes I could reach out to a local chapter to show support for the people since I know this affects the entire JW community, but I also know now is probably not the time since I'm sure there are plenty of congruent members around the world who are scared by this. If you happen to know of any charities to help the victims, I would love to know. No one should ever be made to feel unsafe, regardless of their religion.
I live very close to where it happened but only heard of the event in through the people around. It was really shocking to me since these kinds of instances involving guns are rare in Germany. Furthermore, I watch a lot of your and Telltales videos on the topic of Jehova's witnesses but have rarely encountered the topic in day-to-day life. At first, I wasn't quite sure what to make of the news aside from that it was tragic. I wonder if the religions rules on shunning have something to do with the actions of the attacker (not that ist justifies them of course!). I'm glad that you bring attention to this. I didn't think it would make international news yet.
Thank you for this statement. Unfortunately, these violent incidents will fuel the persecution complex JWs must have always felt and increase resentment of apostates like yourself. I will release my own statement about this matter when I am ready.
I feel you on the sentiment Veggie, but I disagree. There were literal children in there, and I can tell you from personal experience that these kids do NOT get any say in their beliefs. Not without consequences. I want to see these Kingdom Halls shuttered, but only for lack of attendance and funding. Violence isn't the way.
@@DarthMagog a sith lord actually being reasonable? it appears you might yet still have a bit of jedi left in you, but nonetheless, i would of course hope those churches were empty or at most only had elders and other higher ups like that at the time of the bombing. it would indeed be abhorrent if any innocent children got harmed or killed as a result of these violent crusades against the org
This is just so awful and horrifically sad. I had a paragraph to write, but when I went to write it the words just vanished, there really aren't words for this. I just hope all of the people effected by the tragedy, especially survivors, are encouraged to get help. That they are able to heal eventually. I hope and pray that those trapped in that cult can get out and get help.
Any guilt you bear over your past actions under Jehovah's brainwashing is far outweighed by your dedication to advocation and education in the present, in my humble opinion. I hope those affected by this can find the peace and help they need.
Exactly! Learning, growing and changing is what life is all about. Everyone has said and done things in the past that don’t line up with who they are now.
This saddens me. I dislike the org. and some specific members with all my might and with good reason and I’m sure many of us feel the same. However, this level of violence is unacceptable and has to be called out. My heart goes out to all those affected. I sincerely hope those affected receive qualified medical and psychological assistance. Reaching out to the elders or the org leadership is not a substitute for actual mental and physical assistance. Thanks Darth for also clarifying this is not what the exjw community advocates for, ever. Violence is not part of this community.
According to German media reports he owned the gun due to his sportive acitivies, so it was his hobby. People around him also tried to get him in therapy but he refused. That's why the police got notice about him potentially not having the mental stability needed to legally own a gun in Germany. But the police showed up, checked whether he stored his weapon and cartridges safely - he did - and talked to him to try to figure out if he was fit to own a gun. They came to the conclusion that his mental health was fine. But German police is not trained psychologically or anything like this. So I'm not pleased to learn that mental fitness checks because of legal gun ownership are not carried out by psychological professionals ...
@@humanwolf1984 always Josh. I'm gonna be just like you and put my mental health at the forefront! Anxiety doesn't have to rule us, we can find peace 💙
@@DarthMagog master we can't take back what we have said or did all we can do is to just try make sure that we use our Mistakes of the past to make us both stronger & better people master Magog. ☸️🕉️
Question is what's going to happen to the ones in critical care .....HLC is probably running a mock..... tragedy begets tragedy.....and they will praise them for sacrificing themselves for Jehovah... SMH 😭
@@DarthMagog - It didn't ... and it is very sad that it did. I am out of the Charismatic Evangelical order, and just like the JWs, they think mental health issues are spiritual issues. Spiritual issues can be resolved with God's word and magic, when in reality, this can be addressed with proper medical attention.
Places of worship should be a safe place to be like schools, hospitals, etc. I'm glad Germany has way stricter gun laws than the US and will likely tighten them more as a result of this (which on the surface shows how far Germany has come since the 40s). I'm sure Jews, Muslims, and other Christians who fear this type of thing happening have shown solidarity and support for this congregation and JWs around the world. At the very least I hope even the most devout JWs see that and know that people with different beliefs aren't evil and taboo. Hell, I'm sure there are people in Germany that would be willing to donate blood to any of the injured even tho they'd have to reject it.
_Any_ place that isn't specifically set up as "unsafe" (e.g. shooting ranges when it comes to actual firearms, martial arts schools, paintball arenas, ...) should be safe from violence. And in general, they are over here - sure, there are a few areas (mostly the scummier parts in some big cities) that are exceptions, but unlike apparently all over the USA, people _do_ feel about as safe when walking the streets here as they would in a hospital. _Can_ something horrible happen? Sure, but that goes for any place or building, including hospitals and schools and churches and ... just as much as any random street. (okay, kind of hard to get hit by a drunk driver in a building, we're talking about intended violence anyway ;)
@@Wolf-ln1ml I know shit is unexpected sadly but my main point is being safe from someone coming in and shooting up the place or anything that can be prevented.
@@sarahenchanted There is no way to prevent that with absolute certainty. At least not without losing any and all freedoms we enjoy, possibly to the point where actual survival would be impossible (say, by literally locking everyone into separate rooms and melting down the keys). What we _can_ do is take care of each other and show, through example, that living _together_ instead of against one another leads to a better life for everyone. That way, we'll minimize the number of people who'll want, let alone feel any need, to turn violent - _and_ if we indeed take care of each other, we'll notice far more easily when someone starts acting weird and might need help. Hell, as the reports on the shooter from Hamburg say, friends of his actually said that he may be a little mentally unstable and might benefit from some therapy. The sad thing is that they couldn't really do much about it, and the ones who _could_ have done something about it (the police officers who visited and interviewed him a little to check whether he could be issues a weapons permit) didn't have the personal knowledge or expertise to see any need for help. That's one flaw in the system that we need to get rid of somehow. Preferrably _before_ it leads to the loss of any further lives...
Very well said. I do not agree one bit with the wt beliefs, and I think they're satanic, but I don't wish anything to happen to anyone. My condolences do go out to the families of the victims, and I hope that the survivors search for a professional therapist to help them understand this tragedy and to work through it. Thank you commander! Have a great weekend.
It is important to know that a bad organisation does not make bad people. Bad leadership does not necessarily mean there will be bad followers. Humans just want to feel welcome in something, and usually, that is translated into religion, which also helps to give them a sense of purpose. Though the leaders of the religion are not doing anything good for the religion, as has been shown by many ex-JW members here on UA-cam, the members of the religion themselves are doing what they think is right, if they don't look for anything outside of the organisation, they are going to continue to follow. The shooters were probably hurting a great deal, I don't know if they willingly left the religion or were shunned and forced out, but the way that the organisation handles its members being curious about everyone else isn't right. Many of the people in the organisation also don't know a way out, or are afraid of what would happen to them if they leave, and what would happen if the end of the world does come. I can only extend my well-wishes to the families, and friends, of the victims of all the violence. These incidents only further isolates the followers, making them think that what the organisation says about worldly people and ex-witnesses is true, rather than helping them to see that the organisation is not as holy as it claims to be.
Very much so. I can only imagine the trauma in stepping back into that Kingdom Hall. I don't want them thinking they've become "Apostates over night" and having a breakdown themselves
I need to make this clear: We do not condone this path of action, nor do we condone violence in general against the Witnesses or any group. Darth Magog, ultimately, is playing a persona of a member of the Sith Empire. This channel is primarily for the sake of informing the populace on how the Witnesses function from someone who was once inside the group. I know I don't speak for anyone beyond myself, but honestly, the path taken was not the right one. This will likely radicalize the Watchtower and the more zealous members against outsiders. I feel for the families affected by this attack. They may be in a twisted organization, but ultimately they are still humans, still your average Johns and Janes trying to find something to make the world more bearable. I hope the affected Kingdom Hall can find healing and peace in these trying times.
I may not agree with a majority of what Jehova witnesses believe but I would never condone shooting and killing innocent people. Also, mental health awareness needs to be more prioritized to all groups of people, especially for religious ones.
Your right, valance isn't the answer. and by attacking the jw will only make them believe that the origination truly is the truth. And as much as i feel for anyone with mental illness, i do believe there is a line you can cross when none of that matters anymore.
yes the ones who taught me were lied to also,i struggled with the fact people i love lied to me especially when i asked about 1975& CSA...hope they WAKE soon
My condolences to all. This organization is dangerous and evil but i never wished this on the brothers and sisters. I wish them peace. I hope some of them wake up knowing that even the so call Jehovah’s house is not safe!!
Eh, I struggle to say that. You could make an argument for the leadership i suppose, but rank and file members have very little power. And the children that die certainly didn't have it coming
I will say this though, while my condolences do go to the victims, I now doubt believe the Watchtower Org are going to use this as "proof" that they are right. That's honestly why you should never act violently towards cults in general. They LOVE being oppressed because it gives them fuel for their beliefs.
No this proof that they are wrong because they always let us know that Jehovah’s house is the safest but now the members know it’s NOT. Where are the angels and Jehovah’s spirit!
@@DarthMagog 😆 Yes evil but you're live! Wonder how watchtower will spin this tragedy? The congregation had lost favor with jehovah? The angels were off duty atm? What do you think?
@@markreyes3117 If anything. Just more fuel for the persecution if they do spin it. I hope that they just acknowledge it as the great tragedy that it is, and just leave it at that
@@DarthMagog now that they've experienced this type of tragedy... will they practice active shooter drills or recommend zoom as a safer alternative to in person?
Just to say it You need to be in an Assoziation for 1 year Do your so called Bedürfnisse to even apply for a firearm A friend of my actually was deployed as an Police sharpshooter there German Police counclors are on call for cases like this
I get why you say this is cringe, but you get that this whole star wars persona stick is done for the differentiation between the private person who does this and the topic that effects them as well as simply anonymity? This way neigher face nor voice is easy recognizable.
I really hope the survivors of the attack are encouraged to reach out to accredited mental health counselling, even just a couple times, to decompress and process what happened. It's a horrifying traumatic thing to happen and I hope they all recover with as little long-term effects as can be hoped for.
We can only hope and advocate for them 💔
Jesus christ sent churches including exjws apostate to preach about the Jehovah's witnesses???????????
@@DarthMagog Jesus christ sent churches including exjws apostate to preach about the Jehovah's witnesses?????????????
I don't want to deffend them, I am an ex myself, but jw accept psychiatric treatments.
@@simona_ab That's good! I wasn't sure on that point, I'm glad they'll get help then, Germany probably has resources available
A quote Mr. Rogers gave in the wake of the death of John Lennon, I think. "My mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.' To this day, especially in times of disaster, I remember my mother's words, and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers, so many caring people in this world."
Truly wise words 💙
Nailed it with the Mr. Roger's quote
I love Mr. Rogers. His words are so relevant today
that's one of my fave quotes in the whole world too 😭💗
That quote has been on my cubicle wall since the beginning of the pandemic. Still relevant.
My heart goes out to those in, those out and those affected. Thanks for bringing understanding and some insight to this tragedy.
Certainly. Hate the policies, love the people.
I hope this encourages authorities to look more into the organization. And look into how they handle matters.
You're so right. There are a lot of good people in the organisation who just want to strengthen their faith. The evil is mostly from the top, the GB. This needs to be urgently addressed.
We can only hope and keep encouraging authorities to look into these things
Darth Magog, thanks for all you do. It people like you who free people from the clutches of these scams. I was freed from Mormonism a little over a year ago now, and I can’t even express how thankful I am. Keep doing what your are doing!
*Also first comment 😂
Welcome to the free world! I hate to see the attacks, but I'm glad people are getting away peacefully. Really hoping the families can find some healing soon :(
Beautifully done Darth. This set just the right tone in the face of an unspeakable tragedy. Thank you for all you do.
Thank you George. I felt it was important to comment on. It's easy to forget that these folks are our loved ones, trapped in this cult. I hope no one has to go through this again, there's never a reason for violence to be the way you protest Jehovah's Witnesses
Interesting detail: This is the first shooting in all of Europe in a long time and Germany is already discussing even stricter gun laws.
Yes, indeed. German laws concerning weapons are already very strict but unfortunately this strictness is not consistently applied to all dangerous weapons. And there are also some not very dangerous weapons (especially kid's toys that can be used for sportive activities) that are unnecessary harshly regulated. So according to many professionals more realism is needed for German weapon laws - which also includes stricter laws for some weapons but not for all of them.
I love your closing statement. It just saddens me that the only members that would ever watch that are the ones already on the way out. It’s the ones still deep inside that need to hear that most.
Sometimes we're lucky and run across some that are pretty close to the center. There may be some hope yet
@@DarthMagog Honestly I had no idea. That’s great to hear!
I'm always so thankful to see a new video from you, even with such painful and difficult topics; you have a unique way of gently guiding your viewers through dark subjects while also informing us. Thank you for making this; i can tell it wasn't easy. Please be sure to self-care; sometimes when i hear news that hurts, it helps me to hug a plushie and cry. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but i figured i'd put it out there anyway just in case.
Thanks Dis. Yeah sometimes the Watchtower topic is rough on the mental health. Doing my best to pace myself
Cat hugs are my go-to 😉😸
That closing statement was so loving. Thank you.
We're all fighting the same fight LOH. No more violence, only love 💙
Thanks for covering this. It's good to hear everyone's perspective and info.
Thanks dark lord of the apostates.
Glad to have you hear Ricky. It's so hard to stomach these things. No one deserves to have their life stolen
This is terrible, this only makes our job harder. I hope the affected families heal, and leave the cult.
We can only hope
Yes like I was saying those will never get a chance to wake up.
Very kind words Mr Magog, I agree with you that many many jws desperately need therapy but are told to pray etc. Also all that hate instilled since childhood causes immense stress on one's mind...so very sad 😭
Sending out thoughts and my heart to those who lost their loved ones because of the senseless violence
I give a thousand condolences! I may not be a Jehovah witness but this act of violence is not tolerated
Agreed, this was tragedy on all levels
This is so sad. I get being angry at the organization, but this...this is not the way.
Agreed. I fully support protest. I make fun of the policies. Hell I've made plenty of jokes about the Governing Body myself. But this is completely wrong, no one deserves to be hurt like this
It's not about mental health or else all people who kill and then commit suicide are mentally ill. NO, the desperation of some people can cause tragedies. If the policy of ostracism institutionalized by the Watchtower causes the despair of certain EXJW to the point of committing the irreparable then this person is not mad but his despair reaches a paroxysm. All followers who support this policy are also guilty. Unfortunately, all the victims are collateral victims of this policy of avoidance.
This happened here! I live in Hamburg, so does my family, almost all of whom are JW, luckily no one I know personally attended that meeting (for context: I was raised as JW, but luckily never got baptized so that after I left while enrolled in college my family is still in touch with me).
Needless to say that this tragedy makes me feel incredibly conflicted. Like you said Darth, I do not wish harm on any JW and can't even imagine the trauma and loss these people must have gone through and probably still go through. My brother (non JW) has a co-worker (JW) who was close friends with one of the men killed in the shooting who was unable to come to work for weeks after the incident, and my parents' neighbors (All JW) were also friends with people from that congregation, so the JW community here in Hamburg is deeply shook by this.
That being said, I just know that this senseless act of violence ultimately won't make them question their practice of shunning and disfellowshipping and that this tragedy will ultimately be twisted and interpreted as 'yet another sign' of them living in the last days, and them having to cling even tighter to their belief system. I couldn't bring myself to attend the JW service of the shooting or talk much to my JW family members about it. My mother was almost beaming with pride when she once mentioned how often JW were namedropped and discussed here on the local news (conveniently ignoring that many reports were critical of the JW belief system etc) and all that just felt so wrong to me.
There was another grand memorial service co-hosted by different Christian branches here in HH that offered a space not only for JW but also for the police, their staff, first responders, chaplains etc, to process the event and their grief. As far as I know no JW attended that one, although they had been explicitly invited.The city also had a book opened for people from our city to write in their codolences. That book was later handed over to JW as a gift (which they publicly acknowledged and appreciated).
Ironically this shooting incident triggered me to finally look back and to start processing my JW upbringing and what this has done to me (after 6 years of strictly looking ahead and focusing on building my own life post-JW) which is how I stumbled across this lovely channel! Thank you Darth for doing the work of presenting information and context so that people like me can recover and heal from this organization
You nailed it!!! I'm a former jw.. and this very sad there are going to be more to come please be safe out there to ALL MY BROTHERS & SISTERS if u r still in the kingdom hall or ex jws pleae be safe
These poor people, my mom was part of this organization.
Same here, i hate what it does to people and how it magnifies all thats wrong. I wonder if proper mental health care was provided and encouraged, could these lives have been saved?
I think the layers here are so tragic....
And soooo scary deep too man
Has anyone investigated his social media, my lord? This sort of attack, no matter the reason, turns my stomach. Whether it be anger at a religious organization or anger at an individual or anything in between, it’s just senseless and evil. Uvalde and Sandy Hook broke me inside…
Nothing on the web yet. We don't even have his full name
According to Spiegel he had his own website advertising his business coaching services. He had college degrees and described himself as growing up in a protestant family. He seems to have been a later in life convert but couldn't find any more on that yet. He released his own book that was filled with his fanatic religious views (like his own end time prophecies and deeply misogynist views) . Also Authorities seem to have received an anonymous message about his hate towards jws that would make him unfit to own a weapon. Sadly he seemed mentally fit when they checked on him.
In the German media there is already a lot about his background. He came from a strictly religious evangelical (maybe Lutheran Protestant) family in a more rural area in Southern Germany. But so far I wasn't able to clearly find out whether his family are Jehova's witnesses or whether he joined the organization later on. He worked as a business consultant and tried to build up his own business but didn't seem to have had any clients yet. He also seemed to have had some delusion of grandeur since he asked for 250.000€, just for one commission.
Before his own business he did a sabbatical to be able to write a book in which he claimed to be the first to really explain the interactions between heaven and earth: „The Truth About God, Jesus Christ and Satan: A New Reflected View of Epochal Dimensions“. (Through the book title you can still find out about his full name. I think it's a typical German thing not to officially release someone's last name in situations like this.)
So I'm not sure whether he found the JWs because of this new found stronger religious convictions or whether he left them because of it. He also talks about religious topics quite a lot on his website and linkedin, he offered services incl. controlling and theology. But seems like German authorities already took down his bizarre website and social media, often to not foster imitation.
Police and government won't look more into the ongoings at JW congregations, beyond tangible complaints about crimes. But the German public already is getting educated about the reality of being a JW 😊 I've seen news reports with titles like: "Complete isolation." In this one an Ex-JW tells his story what leaving the organization meant for his social life. And what growing up as a JW was like. He also stressed that all of his Ex-JW acquaintances are shocked to hear about the event. And there was even information about self-help groups for Ex-JW and how to find help if you want to leave👍
So at least more people learn about the organization even if it's a sad occasion 😓
@@Myladyinred999 He was brought up a JW not evangelical. Belongs to a devout JW family. You tuber wife knows the family. J_Traum(a)welt_W is the channel it’s German but through subtitles can be changed to English. His name is Jason Wittmann. Rest of what you stated is correct. The book was published in December and situation went downhill after that. A very sad tragedy
My heart goes out to them I am against the organization but I don't anyone die for there Faith because it only pulls them Deeper into there blind mindset against others of the outside world master Magog. ♥️😥😢😨😰😨😿💔
I just started Phone therapy a two weeks ago for my Anxiety & has been on medication & my fur baby helps me to handle it & on Anti Depression medication to treat voices of Self harm never to something so hateful master Magog. 😥😢😰😨😿💔♥️
I can ask some JW members that is outside my favorite Library on Tuesday about any Fund Raising Charity that is going to be put together for the victims & survivors & there Families Master Magog & Commander Fives but so my cover isn't blown I won't mention you though. 😿😢😥😇♥️💔💰
I’m so sad to hear this. That poor mother. 😢
7 months, I couldn't imagine
Thank you for covering this, Darth.
Humans are social creatures, when you take all of that away we sometimes react very badly
This is also scientifically true.
Omg that's really awful. Those lives lost and the poor woman who lost her baby it's really tragic. JW or not no and I mean no one should have go through something like this. It always sickens me knowing people like that man exist and don't care about who they harm💗🥺
Agreed. I don't agree with 90% of JW culture and theology, but they should at least be able to gather in peace without worrying about being murdered.
@@DarthMagog Exactly I don't agree either but they still have rights as any other person
@@DarthMagog 🤣
I have many relatives that are PIMI.
This is terrible 😢
Same, worries me.
I agree with you. Most ordinary JWs are really lovely people. The evil is those 9 men in New York. They are to blame for all this. The shunning is evil.
We need to bring AWARENESS to the government and to the public about Watchtower's cover up of child SEXUAL ABUSE and SHUNNING PRACTICES that rob people of free will and break up 💔 of family. PROTEST PROTEST PROTEST. OCTOBER 31ST 2023 IN WASHINGTON D.C AT THE WHITE HOUSE. WE MUST SAVE THE LIVES OF OUR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS. PLAN TO ATTEND THE PROTEST. THIS PROTEST IS PERMITTED AND APPROVED. LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD
I'm not even a JW or Ex JW but this video really moved me. it was a really beautiful message.
WATCHTOWER NEEDS TO BE MANDATED BY THE GOVERNMENT TO STOP SHUNNING PRACTICES.
AGreed. I think Norway might have them in a corner on that.
Thank you for your words of comfort and providing the truth. This is such a horrible thing that happened. Words can never describe it fully. One can only hope for the future
That's all we have is hope my friend.
Thank you for talking about this.
💙
Well said!
💙
Okay, I know JW is screwed up, but that doesn’t justify ending their lives.
Truly horrific old friend
@@DarthMagog Indeed.
I've been copying my grandma's recipe notes into a book lately to save them, so I was over at her house working on that tonight and this was on the TV. She said, "Well you can tell who the shooter is bc he won't be in a suit!" Like... You're possibly/probably right Gma but technically nothing was stopping the guy from doing the shooting in a suit... And also, you can tell who the shooter is bc he'll be the one with, yanno, a gun... Anyways though senseless violence sucks and no point is ever made by it. Let's use our Big Boy and Girl Voices instead.
Oh Grandma tried. It's sad to see that the most dangerous enemies of Jehovah's people keep coming from within. It's depressing and somewhat telling.
May the Comfortor come to them. Amen.
This was a very balanced summary at a difficult time. I would like to add my voice to yours and those of all decent people condemning this senseless violence.
I call on Watchtower leadership and elected Governmental representatives to take real steps to reduce the likelihood of future incidents, starting with enforcing the right to freedom of religion by ending the unnecessary and indefinite mental torture of former believers through shunning.
It is my belief that these tragedies are caused by shunning. Either due to not having to support needed to get help or, more than likely, going off the deep end because all of the only support they have ever known has been ripped away.
Shunning wasn’t always doctrine and it doesn’t need to remain that way. There is no solid biblical backing for it. It designed solely to keep people in the cult, and people who are in away from people who might take them away.
Agreed on both counts. We have some hope, if the branch in Norway is being honest about no longer disfellowshipping it's members, then we may see it applied across the organization.
@@DarthMagog That would be fantastic!!!!
Well said. I hope the victims and their loved ones can find the help they need to heal.
A part of me wishes I could reach out to a local chapter to show support for the people since I know this affects the entire JW community, but I also know now is probably not the time since I'm sure there are plenty of congruent members around the world who are scared by this.
If you happen to know of any charities to help the victims, I would love to know. No one should ever be made to feel unsafe, regardless of their religion.
Definetly. I suspect the Witnesses will take care of things "in house" but I'll keep researching
@@DarthMagog As they do 😕
I live very close to where it happened but only heard of the event in through the people around. It was really shocking to me since these kinds of instances involving guns are rare in Germany.
Furthermore, I watch a lot of your and Telltales videos on the topic of Jehova's witnesses but have rarely encountered the topic in day-to-day life.
At first, I wasn't quite sure what to make of the news aside from that it was tragic. I wonder if the religions rules on shunning have something to do with the actions of the attacker (not that ist justifies them of course!).
I'm glad that you bring attention to this. I didn't think it would make international news yet.
Thank you for this statement. Unfortunately, these violent incidents will fuel the persecution complex JWs must have always felt and increase resentment of apostates like yourself. I will release my own statement about this matter when I am ready.
And here it is: ua-cam.com/video/Wz_AX5l2aPQ/v-deo.html
Hopefully we'll have more information by then too, I look forward to your wise words my friend
finally, true justice being served
I feel you on the sentiment Veggie, but I disagree. There were literal children in there, and I can tell you from personal experience that these kids do NOT get any say in their beliefs. Not without consequences. I want to see these Kingdom Halls shuttered, but only for lack of attendance and funding. Violence isn't the way.
@@DarthMagog a sith lord actually being reasonable? it appears you might yet still have a bit of jedi left in you, but nonetheless, i would of course hope those churches were empty or at most only had elders and other higher ups like that at the time of the bombing. it would indeed be abhorrent if any innocent children got harmed or killed as a result of these violent crusades against the org
This is just so awful and horrifically sad. I had a paragraph to write, but when I went to write it the words just vanished, there really aren't words for this. I just hope all of the people effected by the tragedy, especially survivors, are encouraged to get help. That they are able to heal eventually. I hope and pray that those trapped in that cult can get out and get help.
Jesus christ sent churches including exjws apostate to preach about the Jehovah's witnesses????????????
@@vusimngomezulu2500 I am sorry, but I do not understand what you mean.
Any guilt you bear over your past actions under Jehovah's brainwashing is far outweighed by your dedication to advocation and education in the present, in my humble opinion.
I hope those affected by this can find the peace and help they need.
Exactly! Learning, growing and changing is what life is all about. Everyone has said and done things in the past that don’t line up with who they are now.
I appreciate that guys. We'll just keep at it, and maybe if we're lucky, we can contribute to the peace those affected find.
This saddens me. I dislike the org. and some specific members with all my might and with good reason and I’m sure many of us feel the same.
However, this level of violence is unacceptable and has to be called out. My heart goes out to all those affected.
I sincerely hope those affected receive qualified medical and psychological assistance. Reaching out to the elders or the org leadership is not a substitute for actual mental and physical assistance.
Thanks Darth for also clarifying this is not what the exjw community advocates for, ever. Violence is not part of this community.
It's always sad when it's easier to buy a weapon then it is to get some therapy.
Maybe do both and we all win.
Thanks Darth for covering this 🥀🥀
Of course Dan. If nothing else happens, mental health needs to be taken care of
According to German media reports he owned the gun due to his sportive acitivies, so it was his hobby. People around him also tried to get him in therapy but he refused. That's why the police got notice about him potentially not having the mental stability needed to legally own a gun in Germany. But the police showed up, checked whether he stored his weapon and cartridges safely - he did - and talked to him to try to figure out if he was fit to own a gun. They came to the conclusion that his mental health was fine. But German police is not trained psychologically or anything like this. So I'm not pleased to learn that mental fitness checks because of legal gun ownership are not carried out by psychological professionals ...
Master may you find the peace that lies within master Magog. 🕉️☸️
Please take care of yourself too master Magog. ♥️😿😢😥😇💔♥️
@@humanwolf1984 always Josh. I'm gonna be just like you and put my mental health at the forefront! Anxiety doesn't have to rule us, we can find peace 💙
I have a learning it's every step @ a time & just Breathe when things get too real master Magog. 👄🫁
@@DarthMagog master we can't take back what we have said or did all we can do is to just try make sure that we use our Mistakes of the past to make us both stronger & better people master Magog. ☸️🕉️
Question is what's going to happen to the ones in critical care .....HLC is probably running a mock..... tragedy begets tragedy.....and they will praise them for sacrificing themselves for Jehovah... SMH 😭
This just breaks my heart. It's the organization that's corrupt, not the people.
Agreed, it's very hard to watch :(
My heart goes out to those family's 💜
Great message Darth. :)
This is tragic.
💔 utterly heartbreaking. This did NOT have to happen 😔
@@DarthMagog - It didn't ... and it is very sad that it did. I am out of the Charismatic Evangelical order, and just like the JWs, they think mental health issues are spiritual issues. Spiritual issues can be resolved with God's word and magic, when in reality, this can be addressed with proper medical attention.
Places of worship should be a safe place to be like schools, hospitals, etc. I'm glad Germany has way stricter gun laws than the US and will likely tighten them more as a result of this (which on the surface shows how far Germany has come since the 40s).
I'm sure Jews, Muslims, and other Christians who fear this type of thing happening have shown solidarity and support for this congregation and JWs around the world. At the very least I hope even the most devout JWs see that and know that people with different beliefs aren't evil and taboo. Hell, I'm sure there are people in Germany that would be willing to donate blood to any of the injured even tho they'd have to reject it.
_Any_ place that isn't specifically set up as "unsafe" (e.g. shooting ranges when it comes to actual firearms, martial arts schools, paintball arenas, ...) should be safe from violence. And in general, they are over here - sure, there are a few areas (mostly the scummier parts in some big cities) that are exceptions, but unlike apparently all over the USA, people _do_ feel about as safe when walking the streets here as they would in a hospital. _Can_ something horrible happen? Sure, but that goes for any place or building, including hospitals and schools and churches and ... just as much as any random street. (okay, kind of hard to get hit by a drunk driver in a building, we're talking about intended violence anyway ;)
@@Wolf-ln1ml I know shit is unexpected sadly but my main point is being safe from someone coming in and shooting up the place or anything that can be prevented.
@@sarahenchanted There is no way to prevent that with absolute certainty. At least not without losing any and all freedoms we enjoy, possibly to the point where actual survival would be impossible (say, by literally locking everyone into separate rooms and melting down the keys).
What we _can_ do is take care of each other and show, through example, that living _together_ instead of against one another leads to a better life for everyone. That way, we'll minimize the number of people who'll want, let alone feel any need, to turn violent - _and_ if we indeed take care of each other, we'll notice far more easily when someone starts acting weird and might need help.
Hell, as the reports on the shooter from Hamburg say, friends of his actually said that he may be a little mentally unstable and might benefit from some therapy. The sad thing is that they couldn't really do much about it, and the ones who _could_ have done something about it (the police officers who visited and interviewed him a little to check whether he could be issues a weapons permit) didn't have the personal knowledge or expertise to see any need for help. That's one flaw in the system that we need to get rid of somehow. Preferrably _before_ it leads to the loss of any further lives...
Just found your channel. I appreciate your content!!!
Thank you Lord Guido, glad to have you aboard.
Very well said. I do not agree one bit with the wt beliefs, and I think they're satanic, but I don't wish anything to happen to anyone. My condolences do go out to the families of the victims, and I hope that the survivors search for a professional therapist to help them understand this tragedy and to work through it.
Thank you commander! Have a great weekend.
Please show me a prove from the Bible that all different churches including exjws apostate are Jesus's followers according to the Bible.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 NO.
@@terridovey7648 🤣
@@vusimngomezulu2500 You're behind me satan.
All I can offer is prayers for the victims of this horrific attack for now. If there is more in the future that can be helpful let us know. 🙏😥
Dear Darth Magog, may the ♥️ be with us.
This is the way Elizabeth 💙
this is so heartbreaking and absolutely unnecessary💔💔
Painful to consider that it even happened.
Thats awful. Hope the survivors can recover.
It is important to know that a bad organisation does not make bad people. Bad leadership does not necessarily mean there will be bad followers. Humans just want to feel welcome in something, and usually, that is translated into religion, which also helps to give them a sense of purpose. Though the leaders of the religion are not doing anything good for the religion, as has been shown by many ex-JW members here on UA-cam, the members of the religion themselves are doing what they think is right, if they don't look for anything outside of the organisation, they are going to continue to follow.
The shooters were probably hurting a great deal, I don't know if they willingly left the religion or were shunned and forced out, but the way that the organisation handles its members being curious about everyone else isn't right. Many of the people in the organisation also don't know a way out, or are afraid of what would happen to them if they leave, and what would happen if the end of the world does come.
I can only extend my well-wishes to the families, and friends, of the victims of all the violence.
These incidents only further isolates the followers, making them think that what the organisation says about worldly people and ex-witnesses is true, rather than helping them to see that the organisation is not as holy as it claims to be.
This tragedy could be exacerbated if any of the seriously wounded victims choose to martyr themselves over Watchtower's blood issue.
This is so sad. This sounds like a mental health breakdown. The survivors need real mental health care.
Very much so. I can only imagine the trauma in stepping back into that Kingdom Hall. I don't want them thinking they've become "Apostates over night" and having a breakdown themselves
I need to make this clear: We do not condone this path of action, nor do we condone violence in general against the Witnesses or any group.
Darth Magog, ultimately, is playing a persona of a member of the Sith Empire. This channel is primarily for the sake of informing the populace on how the Witnesses function from someone who was once inside the group.
I know I don't speak for anyone beyond myself, but honestly, the path taken was not the right one. This will likely radicalize the Watchtower and the more zealous members against outsiders.
I feel for the families affected by this attack. They may be in a twisted organization, but ultimately they are still humans, still your average Johns and Janes trying to find something to make the world more bearable. I hope the affected Kingdom Hall can find healing and peace in these trying times.
I may not agree with a majority of what Jehova witnesses believe but I would never condone shooting and killing innocent people. Also, mental health awareness needs to be more prioritized to all groups of people, especially for religious ones.
Agreed. I hate that mental health care is stigmatized.
Very sad did u know over 250000 have died refusing blood.
Hadn't realized it was that many cases!
Your right, valance isn't the answer. and by attacking the jw will only make them believe that the origination truly is the truth. And as much as i feel for anyone with mental illness, i do believe there is a line you can cross when none of that matters anymore.
Strickly law gun owners in Indonesia❗
yes the ones who taught me were lied to also,i struggled with the fact people i love lied to me especially when i asked about 1975& CSA...hope they WAKE soon
💙
💙 Fives!
LOVED 💝
I hate to hear about this.
Same my friend. Nobody deserves to die like this
My condolences to all. This organization is dangerous and evil but i never wished this on the brothers and sisters. I wish them peace. I hope some of them wake up knowing that even the so call Jehovah’s house is not safe!!
Right? That's what's so scary, even a house of worship isn't off limits anymore.
$ CULT $
damn
That's pretty much the word 😔
💯
They had it comin'
Eh, I struggle to say that. You could make an argument for the leadership i suppose, but rank and file members have very little power. And the children that die certainly didn't have it coming
I will say this though, while my condolences do go to the victims, I now doubt believe the Watchtower Org are going to use this as "proof" that they are right. That's honestly why you should never act violently towards cults in general. They LOVE being oppressed because it gives them fuel for their beliefs.
No this proof that they are wrong because they always let us know that Jehovah’s house is the safest but now the members know it’s NOT. Where are the angels and Jehovah’s spirit!
Heard from a PIMO friend that they did a public talk about how "Jehovah Protects his Followers From Harm." PIMO friend's wife walked out.
What horrible statements about the Jehovah Witnesses., all very untrue!!! 😡😡😡
Please what is untrue? I sincerely want to know.
Hi Mary, was there anything specific I can address?
Darth magog not into violence? Maybe jedi magog would be better character. 🤔
I'm evil, but also #EvilHasStandards
@@DarthMagog 😆
Yes evil but you're live!
Wonder how watchtower will spin this tragedy? The congregation had lost favor with jehovah? The angels were off duty atm? What do you think?
@@markreyes3117 If anything. Just more fuel for the persecution if they do spin it. I hope that they just acknowledge it as the great tragedy that it is, and just leave it at that
@@DarthMagog now that they've experienced this type of tragedy... will they practice active shooter drills or recommend zoom as a safer alternative to in person?
@@markreyes3117 that's hard to say
Just to say it
You need to be in an Assoziation for 1 year
Do your so called Bedürfnisse to even apply for a firearm
A friend of my actually was deployed as an Police sharpshooter there
German Police counclors are on call for cases like this
Oh that is information I didn't know, thank you!
💩💩🩳🩳
... this is so cringe larping star wars or something equally gay while talking about a shooting
Weird flex but OK?
@@DarthMagog 💀 good comeback
I get why you say this is cringe, but you get that this whole star wars persona stick is done for the differentiation between the private person who does this and the topic that effects them as well as simply anonymity?
This way neigher face nor voice is easy recognizable.