Total thumbs up OCA!!! I've learned so much by watching and working through your videos. I thought the SOTA walkthrough was good. But this was unbelievable the different that I could both hear and measure. Thank you so much.
Two quick notes: In REW export all to text, if you change setting 'Export Text Delimiter' to Tab, the numbers will go directly into Excel columns without having to monkey around with the Excel delimiter. Also, if you adjust distances and levels in the Audyssey MultiEQ app instead of in the receiver web portal, although more cumbersome, they will be saved into the .ady file and you won't lose them if you change between different calibrations. Cheers and thanks for another great tutorial!
Ernie, I'm guessing you mean make the adjustments in the the json editor? There are six decimal places for both trim and distance. For trim, did you try entering something other than half dB increments? Wondering if it will accept levels that aren't .5 or whole dB steps.
@@vincentdemarco6374 no I meant inside the audyssey muiltEQ app on your iPad or other device. When you open your calibration file, one of the submenus is (something like) Speaker Results, inside you’ll find crossovers, distances, and levels. If you input the values here they’ll be saved into your calibration .ady file
Here is my feedback having completed this process. Firstly great learning experience. Going through things a few times makes them easier to follow and dots start connecting. The graphs looking stunning and I was able to follow each step all the way. Then I gave it a listen. My first impression was that the speakers seemed to have come alive a lot more and sounded more immersive but sounded a bit harsh in some instances and the bass seemed weaker to me and also little exaggerated in the upper bass frequencies. I went back and forth with my old settings and the new ones. Since I have a minidsp and a Denon 4700 which has two speaker presets, it was a lot easier to compare. I found the bass sounding better in my old setting so I went back to it but applied some of the learnings from this tutorial to it especially the correction of the impulse responses. That made a big difference and everything sounds better than before. So I ended up with new settings using my old and new and it sounds great. What was interesting was that the FR between the latest REW and the early access differ. Not sure why but they do. Also for others the controls to see IR distances on IR tab is Ctrl + right mouse key and drag. Thanks OCA
First of all thank you and congrats on your achievement. REW has been going through an extensive development stage recently and some trace arithmetic basics have been changed although there would not be a difference in the final filters produced.
I have a Denon x3700h andI ended up doing the same as you admittedly, after praising this mothod so much. My results were similar - the mid bass was way too exaggerated and the rest of the speakers sounded like they were crossed over at 200hz, ie; no bass even where the speakers can handle 60hz or even 80hz. I applied the impulse response to all speakers and now my original Audyssey calibration sounds much better. Surprisingly though, the biggest improvement came from turning Loudness Compensation off in the now perfected original calibration. However, after finding the original calibration sounded better, I still learnt so much from this tutorial! I feel like I am now an advanced REW user! Thank you OCA! I hope you can find why the calibration (after following this tutorial) ended up sounding the way it did. I followed it exactly as instructed. I can't wait to try your next tutorial....:)
You're channel is really exceptional in regards to range and depth of the topics. But also practical and precise. Awesome work and I hope you get a much bigger audience soon. Thanks!
Hello. First of all, thank you very much for providing the calibration file. I wanted to make a comment about how to use it: I was trying to use the Audyssey mic to check the frequency response of my system playing pink noise and using REW's rta. And I believe the calibration file for the Audyssey mic you provided has the positive and negative values inverted. My system was already calibrated following the avr's built in audyssey setup procedure. First I measured with no calibration file at all, and I saw a frequency roll off starting at about 7KHz as expected according to what you showed in your other video about the hidden calibration file of the Audyssey mic. Then I loaded your provided calibration file and took another measurement. Instead of getting a flatter response, the frequency roll off starting at 7KHz was stronger. So I opened your calibration file in notepad texteditor, changed all negative values to positive and changed all positive values to negative, and saved with a new name. I loaded this new calibration file into REW, took a new measurement and got an almost flat frequency response. (The system was set to "flat" multeq profile, not "reference"). The calibration file for REW should show the mic output level at each frequency, not the required compensation. That is to say, if the mic's response is rolling off after 7khz, the values in the calibration file after 7khz should be negative. I hope my comment to be useful for other users who are in the same situation as me: not having a calibration mic and wanting to use the audyssey mic in REW. (Forgive me if I did something wrong, perhaps there is a way to load the provided file in REW so that it works as it should and I am not aware of it. I found that the file works inverting the values and I wanted to share it. Also forgive me if you or another user already said the same thing about the calibration file before).
You were right, it was having the inverse effect on the measurement. I've now updated the calibration file in all videos with the inverted one. Thanks for your attention!
I spoke to John about the inversion with [A] / [B] magnitude division and it is working correctly. What threw me off was that the calculation in REW displays as the differences on a 0db line. I was expecting it to visually invert the response. However, If you export an inversion and pick an area that looks off in REW. For me its was 16K. Look at the difference in the measure response vs the target curve. Mine was -2.5db in REW. This means that the inversion should be +2.5db and in the text file it was. The biggest thing is the way REW is displaying the correction. It only displays it as the differences on the 0db SPL graph. I had to get my head around this. In the end, A / B magnitude division does work as intended, and the 0db line becomes the target curve.
Thank you OCA; great video again🙂 i want to try that; in the beginning you mentioned that also MultEQ-X user can apply this method. But how to do this, because the .mqx-files are different and not JSON formated (the Data-section is another format i think)!?
I don't use mqx and not sure what the format of an mqx file is but at the final stage of this method instead of inversion, you can apply REW'S auto EQ to the responses and transfer these filters to multeq-x.
@@ocaudiophile Okay, thank you! But then i think better be careful with statements like this: 'We don’t need ‚MultEQ-X‘, but MultEQ-X users can also easily implement the method', because as it turns out the method can not be used!
@@didi_p7756 There's nothing too wrong with that statement. The method can be implemented for mqx with REW's auto EQ instead of inversion.I have detailed videos on how to use REW's auto-EQ with these receivers.
@@ocaudiophile What do you think about the following workflow for MULTEQ-X users (assuming, as part of the measurement process, MULTEQ-X gets the speaker distances/levels correct) 1. Set REW preferences as prescribed in this video 2. Take all measurements (I.e. three measurements per speaker) with Audyssey enabled how without any Audyssey filters applied (note: MULTEQ-X allows any Audysseyfilters to be disabled via excluding’ ALL measurements in the app 3. Take RMS Average of each set of speaker measurements (I.e. RMS average of the three measurements) Question: Is Vector averaging preferred??? 4. Use REW to EQ the response of each speaker’s RMS average 5. Import REW correction/eq filters into MULTEQ-X app 6. Upload to receiver and call it a day!
With the instructions of the Dolby Atmos 9.1.6 video I was able to get also a measuring of the Atmos speakers for my 7.1.4 setup on a MacBook Pro, using VLC media player on my Mac. Afterwards quit simple choose the wav file of the sweeps in REW, start measuring and play in VLC the speaker you are needed, every speakers has is own chapter, great work. Now this evening I can go further with the instructions of this video with my 36 measurements. Great to do this job with a Mac, I am not an experienced windows user.
Very strange that Mac users too much problems have with REW. And there is more an advantage for a Mac because you need no special drivers. I use Ventura or on another system Sonoma, and the latest REW from the REW-website. On every mac will plays VLC plays and you give the right files and sweeps in you 9.1.6 video, maybe you can these also add to this video. Furthermore a Mac User must setup his mouse as a secundary mouse. So you can speak more optimistic in your videos for Mac Users!!!
Your username is absolutely Perfect Sir. Excellent instructions and great job describing what you are doing and why. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us.
OCA, thank you for this detailed info. I'm completely new at this hence have a question relating to the beginning of your video where you transfer the Default.ady file to your phone then send it to the AVR, I assume via the MultiEQ editor. I did this and my AVR asked to save it to one of the two presets (I saved to preset 1). I assume this is correct? My real question comes at 6:48 of the video when you then use some sort of in web interface protocol to interact with your AVR. What is the purpose of this? Or can this all be done by directly using the AVR menu via the remote control? Are you using this web interface to simply show your viewers the changes or is there something more behind this action? When I selected my new preset 1 setting and viewed via the AVR (using my remote) the changes you note were there except all my distances were not changed to 0.04m ... they remained at the original Multi EQ actual speaker distance measurements. I apologize for this newby question.
You can use whichever preset you like. I keep one preset for full manual calibration and one preset with Audyssey and Dynamic EQ using this method. The web interface commands can all be done from the receiver menu/remote, this is just a short cut but also a lot easier to change settings from your PC instantly. Some newer receiver models use a different setting in the ady for speaker distance. You can manually reset them in the reciever setup menu or in the online Json editor before you save the ady file.
Thank you!! With all the videos on your site which one do you recommend I use to maximize my 7.2.4 system (2021 AVR Denon X6700H)? I first experimented by adding the Harmon Curve (as outlined in one of your videos) … which achieved a much improved response. Of course I now want to see what more we can do with the system. Cheers and thanks again for all your sage advice.
FYI, I tried numerous times to download the REW V5.20.14 file, it appears to work, however it never includes the “house curve” tab under preferences? When I download the REW V5.20.13 it does include the “house curve” tab under preferences. Am I missing something? Can I use the .13 version and still successfully work thru your video(s)? Keeping in mind I’m a REW infantile. 😂
Last questions and I won't bother you anymore. 😁 I decided to try your "Supreme Audyssey Calibration" video (assuming that might be what you advise further to my question above?). I've updated all the preference tabs info. per your video including adding the mic calibration file as I'm using the original Audyssey mic. At 14:00 in the video I'm trying to run the measurement but it gets hung up at "10% Waiting on timing reference" and the graph at the bottom left corner simply keeps scrolling? When running the Check Levels I get the message "Ready to measure..." with the the message "Level Low, -61.2 dBFS, 78db SPL" . FYI, given the Level Low message I tried turning the AVR volume up and still got the message "Level Low, -41.7 dBFS, 98 dB SPL" but it did not help. I then also experimented in the Preferences area "Soundcard" Tab to see about calibrating my soundcard (not sure if I even needed to do that?) and could never get the Input and Output levels even close to matching one another as the volume was waaaay to loud at the original Sweep Level setting of -12 dBFS. I had to adjust the Sweep Level setting to -30 dBFS, in order to turn up the AVR volume enough to match the input/output reading and not blow my speakers (which level was still very loud). Lost in REW Space ... hope you had a great day today and can help.
i got stuck at the default.ady file transfer at 6:37. multeq app says "the specified file is not located in the devices local storage or is not a proper curve file". Windows sees it as a ady-file but nothing helps here. could you maybe help with this?
Finally! My system is a new one with you. Especially with my low end Denon 1700h without multieq xt32 the difference is huge in bass management. Thank you so much. Somebody needs to take the method and create a blog post out of it. Because a video sometimes is not the ideal medium while working on such things . Much love ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉
i have started writing down from your video the steps to do. but still ongoing. a nice blog post on medium or somewhere with nice tables regarding settings in REW, direct download links, hint blocks and so on would make it much better to understand. it would be also possible to make first a 1:1 tutorial out of it without any deep knowledge background which can be collapsed from special blocks. what you think? @@ocaudiophile
You've my full support but some techniques have evolved and there are automation scripts in the immersive audio and especially Audyssey ART videos. You might wanna take a look at them as welll.@@Squizzy911
Hey man. I finally got around to giving this a shot. My results were pretty good. Only thing I changed was I made the target curve give me way more bass (about 10db to match the uncorrected curve of my speakers) and I made Audyssey not do any correction after 10khz because the boost of highs was way too fatiguing in my room. Using this method has made my home theater sound like a real theater. It doesn't sound like speakers, it sounds like sound. No it's not perfect but nothing will ever be perfect in audio. Thanks for the video!
@@ocaudiophile Yeah man you are doing some really good work. Do you take your measurements with sofa cushions on or off? I think the high end boost might be because I measured with my sofa cushions on but I saw another video from HD MOVIE SOURCE saying to measure with the cushions off.
@chadkirk925 The differences are too small to measure precisely. I'd rather put effort to place the mic tip where your ears will exactly be during measurements and leave the room exactly as it will be during film watching for better results.
Thank you very much for taking the time to do this. My receiver only has multeq (not 32 or xt) so I was intrigued by this video. Unfortunately, after completing the process, I got no frequency response below 120hz whatsoever. My sub was set at -12db to hit the target curve and even after boosting it to +12db in the audyssey settings and turning the gain on my amp up an additional 30%(maxed out) there was maybe 1-2mm of travel from my subwoofer and no bass from my bookshelves. I intend to redo the process from creating new corrections forward, potentially with another curve, but I am curious if maybe multeq does not have the resolution that multeqxt32 has and as a result, some numbers may not transfer to my avr. For instance, when adding the 241 points to the custom “target curve points”, could audyssey be ignoring 100 of them or something to this nature because it is the lesser audyssey version?
I don't think number of custom target curve points is a problem for the type of MultEQ as long as the app accepts them (I think the limit is somewhere near 65,000 points). However, MultEQ uses significantly less number of FIR taps compared to XT32 while generating FIR filters which will effect LOW BASS correction very much. In other words, Audyssey may not be able to correct properly to the target curve it's pointed at especially below 100Hz.
@@ocaudiophile Quite appreciative that you took the time to reply. I hope i dont seem as though i am asking for help diagnosing my own issues here. I am simply trying to contribute issues i am having in the event someone else runs into these problems. I am now concerned that the measurements i took with REW were being influenced by the existing Audyssey profile's corrections ( i had a traditional audyssey correction applied prior to starting this guide). I will start from scratch with a factory reset and report back. Once again, thank you.
At 12:00, you describe how to set up the room curve. The settings you give will yield A Harman room curve. To generate that Harman curve, is REW changing the test tone output to be higher at 20 Hz, then decreasing the amplitude all the way out to 20,000 Hz?
I don't understand, yet. When I look at your response curves, they look like they drop about 7 dB from 20-20,000 Hz. I guessed that the sweep amplitude decreased at the slope you entered in the equalizer preference panel, and level matching is how the response fit the Harman curve. If the sweep volume is constant through that range, what drives the response to a constant negative slope?
@@ronaldippolito6785 The low frequencies are always boosted by the room walls and there's also usually additional downward slope intentionally given by the manufacturers if you check their anechoic response because we tend to hear these frequencies higher than they actually are so in fact it's flat to our ears.
At about 26:10, you change the speed of sound in the 'preferences' pane from 343 meters per second to 300. Can you please explain what you are doing, and why that works? Thank you...
That's the constant used is the Sound United (Marantz/Denon) receivers to convert time delays to distance and the reason Audyssey will get them all wrong. At some very recent models, they might have fixed this.
@@leo180811 I am not sure. They say all models 2022 upwards were fixed with a firmware upgrade. You can compare the real distance of a speaker which you can manually measure with the Audyssey calculated distance and undrestand.
@18:02, if the default is set to my Marantz AVR, is there any special way that Windows Media Player (or anything else) needs to be setup in order to play the height channels? Or will it play them natively?
@@ocaudiophile Thanks! How about when I select the configuration for the Marantz in Windows? 7.1 or do I choose another option? I think there's one that shows up as Atmos, but the diagram disappears when I select it.
@@ocaudiophile This is definitely still not working for me. My default is set to the Marantz AVR and stereo configuration, but the height files are playing out of fronts left and right.
I'm enjoying going through the process! However, with my Denon x3800 I've seen a few issues after uploading the .ady file back to the receiver and trying to make your changes in the "Cheating Audessey" stage: 1. When I used MultiEQ to create the Original file it knew I had Top speakers... but after uploading the new one the web interface listed them as Front and Rear Height speakers. I changed them to Top Front and Rear under Speakers--Speakers Layout, but wanted to make sure you didn't think there was some other issue. 2. After uploading the Default.ady, in the Distances it did not default the Top speakers to 0.04 like the others. It had a pretty high number on them (like 6 or 8 meters). I manually changed them to 0.04 3. Similarly, my Subwoofer 1 "Level" was -2, whereas all the rest were at 0. 4. When I go to Audio - Sound Parameter, it does not show the same options. It only offers Effect Level, Room Size and Speaker Select... none of which your screen has. Most concerning for me is I don't see where to lower the LFE by -10. Is it OK that I had to manually update my items 1-3 or did something go wrong when I made by "Default" file? What are your thoughts on #4? If the Denon interface is different, how do I handle the FLE adjustment? Lastly, when I was editing the .ady file, it showed 13 channels (7.2.4) as 0-12... but channel #12 (I'm assuming Sub 2) did not have any recorded Response Data for me to be able to edit. Is that how it should be? Thanks in advance!!!
1. When using MultEQ Editor app (or the receiver's own setup menu) for calibration, user needs to tell the app the correct speaker configuration with amp assign. The method will not change that configuration. I haven't tried manually changing them in the AVR after sending the ady file to the receiver so I am not sure but I wouldn't risk it. I guess it's safer to run a new calibration with the MultEQ editor app with the correct configuration. You can stop it after only 3 measurements. 2. That could also be related to manual speaker configuration change. 3. Levels always came up 0 initially in my tests but I have seen odd volume adjustments in the later stages after re-sending calibrated ady files. Manually correcting them is fine. 4. x3800h has LFE setting in the menu according to this: manuals.denon.com/AVCX3800H/EU/EN/GFNFSYvdfworfs.php#OKNRMLxabcenvo You might need to send an LFE signal to the AVR to bring it out.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for your quick response. I started from a new file. It still changed it to Heights instead of Top.... but when I made the change everything else worked properly, so I'm good with that stage! Now 4 questions/issues with Measuring: 1. I'm now having an issue with the .mp4 files not playing properly. I checked and my AVR is showing as the default audio device. I do have the Windows Sound settings set to Atmos and I can play the Dolby Test Tones perfectly fine and the Denon shows Atmos. When I play the .mp4 files it shows Multi-channel-in instead of Atmos... and plays all the recordings as Stereo. 2. Should the volume on the laptop be up to 100 for these tests? At first the volume was very low until I did that. Just want to make sure that's right. 3. I normally watch movies around -20db. When I ran Left and Right tests at that level I received an error message that the signal was not high enough. I then raised it to -10 and it seems to work, although that is higher than I normally play it. 4. Even when at -10, I receive an error message that the signal to noise ratio is too low. I've even turned off the air conditioning when doing the test and still get the message. The room is pretty quiet except for the sound of my laptop's fan. Is there something I need to correct, or do I just tell it to stop giving me that message? Thanks again!
1. Windows sound settings should NOT be set to Atmos, setting to "Stereo" should work fine(AVR set as default playback player, L&R set to Large, all enhancements disabled, give exclusive control to other apps, etc. all ticked, 16 or 24 bit but definetely 48000Hz sampling rate selected). Windows Media Player at default settings, reinstall it if need be. The AVR should be in Movie/Multch-in or stereo mode. Try until you see the AVR switching to Atmos when you double click and play any of the mp4 files with WMP (you don't need to play them through REW). 2. All volumes should be at 100 3. Sounds like you microphone input level is too low, REW should normally easily measure levels as low as -40dB. Check your microphone input levels in Windows sound settings. 4. You may want to switch to Java EXCL drivers instead of ASIO, usually they're easier to set up.
Hi OCA, In the video at 43:57, I don't see the category "customTargetCurvePoints" in my .ady file in the JSON Editor. Using a Marantz Cinema 50. So I'm not sure where I should input the REW response. Thanks in advance for your help.
Is your MultEQ Editor app up to date? Custom curve points should definetely be there. There have been people who applied this method successfully with Marantz CInema 50.
@@ocaudiophile it was some bug with the exported .ady file. I exported again and the setting was available in JSON Editor. Finally finished all the steps in this method and I can immediately notice a significant improvement in the height channels. However, the bass response seems to very low. I have double checked that LFE level is set to 0 and not at -10. Still can't figure out what's causing this. In REW, the subwoofer response looked fine.
Loudness management is on in most models by default. It could be a reason but best way is to remeasure speakers and sub with the new settings active and check in REW what's going on.
@@ocaudiophile thank you! When measuring sub impulse response, the distance adjustment from Center Channel peak impulse to Subwoofer peak impulse is showing to be 12 meters (!!). Obviously this cannot even be configured. So I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong. Is there any other way to time align the sub?
@@ElectroPineapple are you using minidsp for the sub? It usually introduces such delays causing 12m distance requirements. You can align subwoofers first peak rather than the highest peak with the acoustic reference speaker instead.
So i finished the calibration and it all sounds excellent. Thanks Subwoofer is still not perfect and is difficult to integrate because i have a pretty big peak around 25hz and my line is nowhere near as straight as yours Hmm maybe i messed up the subwoofer measurements / eq? ill try doing the sub again later I might just need a second sub And the crossovers are surprising.. Front and surround back 110hz looks the best, center and side surrounds 60hz looks the best Maybe it has to do with my room (My fronts are Polk R200 bookshelfs, should go down lower just fine)
Subwoofer response is the hardest one to get right and unfortunately the most dominant on good overall sound. DEQ changing bass boost for every volume level doesn't help either. Still, Audyssey should be able to kill that boost at 25Hz (unless you have XT rather XT32) and remember that after heavy EQ is applied sub's impulse peak might move a little bit and may need distance readjustment. You can try and XO every speaker at their specs (ie -3dB roll off frequencies). If your speaker pairs are relatively symmetric, this might give even better results.
Please a little clarification for me, At around 51:00 I made copies of the sweeps, applied Align Spl (for speech), and then compared sweeps with their copy and applied Spl Offset. Do the new Spl offsets replace the AVR Speaker Levels previously set or do you add the Spl Offsets to the AVR Speaker Levels? I tried both and the results were no better than the first applied inversion (before 51:00). I've previously aligned my subs following your tutorial. Got them flat. The distance from the sub to the center speaker measures between 7-9 meters depending if you measure from the bottom or top peaks. The center speaker distance to the MLP is 1.91 meters. So my total distance is approximately 11 meters to add to the subwoofer distance in the DENON AVR!? 7.90 meters is the highest distance that can be entered. I'm confused.
I understand the confusion. Actually REW now shows the SPL offset applied to a measurement during "Align SPL" process in the Info window under "Align Offset:" so you don't need to make copies. just check these for each measurement. I explained this method in detail around 08:35 minutes into the following video: ua-cam.com/video/4gVUdArG7oA/v-deo.html
@@ocaudiophile In the Audyssey calibration for Dolby Atmos Music video you apply Cross correlation alignment with the Vector Avg Sweeps and Actual Time(distance) Aligned measurements is that new? Should it be employed here also?
@@CarlosGomez-THX_1138 It takes the precision one step further and helps in finding the correct crossover points. As you cannot adjust speaker distances with high accuracy in the reciever, this extra step helps REW to use the actual speaker distances and calculate phase interactions with the sub better. It's up to you to try and test the results.
In REW, after applying Align SPL @1000Hz and entering the Levels in the AVR, can we then apply, in REW, Align SPL @200Hz and adjust the Levels in the AVR? or do we apply the Align SPL as depicted in this video?
At 8:20, you tell us how to use the control protocols to set the maximum volume to that which you use for watching movies. I watch movies at a lower volume than you do. How did you convert your listening volume into the value you sent for maximum volume?
Once we set the max volume ( with the protocol command) that volume that we watch movies, should we make all our measurements at that volume on the preamp?
@@ronaldippolito6785 Yes, especially if you intend to use dynamic eq or dynamic volume because Audyssey will apply different levels of boost to different channels depending on the volume of the amp.
This is all really great, but I am confused about a discrepancy between the Speaker Level settings at two points in your video. At 36:58 you show values for, say, the LCR at -1.0/+2.5/-1.0, but at 46:00, after explaining to take a note of the Speaker Level and distances settings before uploading the curve-edited .ady file, you enter values of -4.0/+0.5/-4.5 for the same three speakers. How/why do those values differ when they should have been the same as the noted values prior to uploading the curve-edited .ady file indicated at 36:58?
:) Your attention to detail is amazing and you're right but in the middle of the calibration during recording the video, I figured I forgot to take a note of the levels so I used levels from another measurement. Just ignore the differences and follow the method!
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for that info - good to know, and now my brain can rest easy :) I did have another question after giving this process some thought: If one doesn't like what Dynamic EQ does to the sound in one's system, does this method work without having that enabled? I find that DEQ really bloats the bass, and makes it sound too overbearing, so I personally turn it off.
@@discostu668 I never turned DEQ on myself for the exact same reasons but this method tames all its disadvantages at the usual volume level you listen to your system and makes use of its boosts at lower volume levels. If you still don't want to use DEQ or DV then you can do a manul calibration with Graphic Equalizer. You'll find two videos on that in my channel.
@@ocaudiophile That is also very good to know. Once I get around to the small re-arrangement of my HT system, I'm definitely going to try this method out. Thankfully, I'm only running a 3.1 system, so I won't have to go through so many measurements! I'm looking forward to seeing how this method changes the sound in my space. The thing that struck me the most was the method used to determine the speaker crossovers.
At the 23:30 point in your video, you are going to vector average front left three measurements. You also included the copy of the time-aligned measurements. Why did you include the three original measurements, if you had the time -aligned version?
All 3 measurements were already time aligned with cross correlation. The 4th is a copy of the central measurement and a copy of of a time-aligned measurement is also time-aligned. The reason I added the central measurement twice to the average is to give it more weight in the average. The reason for evarging them is to find the true speaker response in a larger area.
Hey OCA, hope you wouldn´t mind that I am asking for your valued support (and knowledge). Attached you will find the link to my measurements (mdat), all full range (Subwoofer measured 0 -250 hz when I remember correctly). What I am looking for is an idea of how I should set my Subwoofers polarity. At the moment they are not inverted yet and sound louder than when I am switching polarity (tested with various music / movie snippets). When looking at my measurements all impulse peaks pointning downwards although the connetions are correct. Step responses showing a typical 3 way speaker response as far as I learned. I am using a Umik 1 for the measurements and the REW "invert" button in the soundcard preferences window was not ticked. I thought my soundcard may be polarity inverted which I not yet checked by measuring with ticked REW "invert" button in the soundcard preferences. I tested to invert the subs polarity in REW (SPL&Phase) and this seems to look ok when viewing impulse responses (all pointing downwards). I cannot reach the main impulse of the sub due to the 6m limitation of my AV7706. Thanks so much Sir. drive.google.com/file/d/1DgIdAJkFkqyax5kh589favqCipH6qZBy/view?usp=sharing
Your speaker and subwoofer polarities are corrrect (based on the "no audyssey" measurements, didn't check presets). Subwoofer delay required is above 6m so you are right that you'll need to compromise. These are the volume and time (distance) alignment settings you need: Speaker SPL Distance (m) FL 0.5 -0.014 C 1.0 0.000 FR 0.5 0.013 SL -1.0 0.001 SR -1.0 -0.009 SW -7.0 3.438 I also created your custom PEQ filters ready to be exported in the mdat: drive.google.com/file/d/1zpyRESa4r-0ROVOo3in9vMsaSlnXioVk/view?usp=sharing Just use these filters with the above volume/distance settings and you should be golden. I leave crossover selection to you.
@@ocaudiophile, thanks so much Sir. Can you let me know why the polarity is correct although subwoofers impulse is pointing upwards while the others pointing downwards (100%)? How did you know that the polarities are correct (would like to understand how to read the impulse graph -> pointing upward vs downward). Besides that, I appreciate the knowledge you gain with your videos, learned so much since I started watching your videos and testing with my system. Best content for anyone interested in getting the best out their sound systems.
@@ocaudiophile, the volume and time differences you mention should be added to the actual distances I set in the processor (and have been used for the measurements) ? My subwoofer distance is already 7.31 meter vs the shortest being SR = 1.45 (SL 1.51) meters. FL, C, FR 2.93. So I assume there is no way adding more distance to the sub. What do you think? Thanks Sir.
@saschawehde8072 I had no way of understanding this from your mdat file. I thought no aud measurements are also taken with equal distances setup. You need to find out what's adding so much delay to the sub then,
@@ocaudiophile i have the x3700 denon BUT in the web interface i don't HAVE the setting "LOW frequency effects" !! am i doing something wrong or maybe some models don't have it ?! update : i had to play a movie with LFE to be able to SEE that setting !
I have taken measurements at the three points, and am now ready to time align them. At about 20:30, you mention a new REW feature called something like 'copy selections to other overlay graphs'. How are you getting that pop-up that contains that new feature?
@@ocaudiophile I must not be on the same version of REW as you, since that command is not available when I right-click on that bottom window. I am on the released Mac version of REW, version 5.20.13.
Hello and big thank you for the great tutorial. After following the steps I finally hear my Dolby Enabled Speakers reflecting from the sealing. The sound in movies is impressive, compared to the sound the system does with just Audyssey. I don't know what the people at Audyssey tought when inventing the correction curves for the Atmos speakers, but it is not working well. The Atmos effect with my 4 Dolby Enabled Speakers is now, implementing your method, great. I now understand why people think, the "bouncing" speakers are crap. Audyssey cuts them in such a way they really sound as crap. One thing, that makes me think that I might have made a mistake at some point through the tutorial is the fact, I still have to adjust to the high pitch of the sound. With Audyssey it is somehow warmer...And my correction curve in MultyEQ app after finishing your method looks like a zigzag with multiple zigzags... Don't know if this should be the outcome...If you can share your MultyEQ curve after implementing your method I would be glad to compare to main, just to be sure, main is OK...I cannot actually call my outcome a "curve" :) Big Thanks for your time and the comprehensive why of taking me trough the tutorial.
Don't worry, it's gotta be a zigzag. The method uses Audyssey curves to apply the actual correction. The zigzags you see are the equalization applied to each speaker. I didn't undertstand what you mean by adjusting high pitch of the sound?
@@ocaudiophile If I compare the sound of the outcome now with the sound of audyssey, then I feel like the sound is much more "sharper" (almost scratching my ears form time to time), less "warm", and voices come out "thinner", thinner perhaps because of the presence of the high frequencies, which were not there before...For me now, it is as if I have different speakers, and I have to get comfortable with them first... When I look for the crossovers with your method, my crossover for the Dolby Enabled Bouncy Speakers comes out at 90 Hz. What would you recommend me to do with this relatively low frequency. Should I crossover them higher like 150 hz? Somewhere in your video you talked about high speakers and crossing them also at 80 hz, to avoid hearing the top sound out from the subwoofer on the ground. Or perhaps I misunderstood something...Of course my dolby enabled speakers are not high speakers...Perhaps thatswhy I should choose the higher crossover? Front speakers have the option for 60 hz and 90 hz Center comes out on 40 hz or 80 hz Surround at 60 hz , 90 hz or 120 hz What frequency would you choose in my place? Now I am mrunning Front @ 90 hz; Center @ 80 hz; Surround @ 90; Dolby Enabled Modules @ 150 hz Thank you in advance!
@@ocaudiophile I have only one Sub (SVS SB 2000 the older version, not the pro version) at the present moment. My room is small 6,50 m to 5,05 m to 2,47 m. My speakers are Heco The New Statement as front, Heco Celan GT 42 as center, Heco Revolution 3 as surround, Heco AM 200 as Dolby enabled speakers in a 5.1.4 configuration. All of this is connected directly to my AV-Receiver Marantz SR 8012. Appreciating your help. Thanks.
@@miroslavpetkov9895 Ok, if you don't use MiniDSP for your sub you can time align the sub properly with the receiver's distance settings. MiniDSP causes extra processing delays which makes this very difficult. When the sub is time aligned, it will be very easy to see where the crossover frequencies should be. For the treble problem you're having, suggest you follow the method in the Dolby Atmos Music video. I used Dolby's own target curve there which is much softer at the high frequencies.
Hello. I did the JSON editing part. I opened it back in JSON to make sure it was showing the new values. Still after importing it into my AVR, I checked the levels and distances and they were not as expected. Any idea what could be wrong? Thanks!!
Then it should work fine. Some XT users encountered similar problems. Have you converted responses of ALL speakers including the subwoofer to perfect (1,0,0,0....)?
Thank you! I've waited a long time for someone to do a tutorial manually tuning HT/atmos speakers. Bless you! .....Initially, I tested the sweep files on all my speakers and determined that two of my Atmos speaker's high frequencies dropped precipitously around 1000Hz. Thank you for the files to test them. In the Denon AVR-X4700H Low Frequency Effects are displayed when "This item can be selected when a Dolby Digital or DTS signal or DVD-Audio is played." I did not set this initially and continued with the tutorial with 7.1. Should I have played a DTS movie and then set this at the beginning? What do I set the Reference Level Offset given I did not set Low Frequency Effects? Thank you for bringing my Home Theater to life. My 7.1 sounds so good I wonder whether I needed Atmos.
I suggest you use Denon's web interface to change its settings. WHen you start palying any of the sweep files with Windows Media Player, all these settings will sho up in the web interface and you can adjust them. RLO has nothing to do with LFE. LFE -10dB offset is just a temporary setting to see the sub response where it really is relative to other speakers. RLO is a setting which adjusts the strength of DYnamic EQ.
I'm stuck at importing txt file into Excel "Audyssey Curve editor". Somehow I have commas instead of dots in dB values..And then when I apply "convert text to colums" with Space ticked, the excel erases commas in dB values or example : from -3,965 i get -3965, and this of course don't work later in JSON. EDIT : I found the solution - when export I needed to tick "Use computer's number format"
Hi d1234 I have the same issue as you have (or had) - but you have found a solution. Unfortunately I still have the problem. When I have the raw text in Notepad it wil say ex -3.965 but as soon as I paste it into Excel it converts to -3,965 so comma instead of dot - and I can't get JSON to accept this format. Have you succeded in that d1234? I can't for the life of me find out what the heck I'm doing wrong?! Still hopeful regards
It's related to your Windows regional settings which effect use of . or , for decimals. You can fix that either through Windows settings or by simply editing the formula in XL.
First, thank you very much for this guide. I am eager to try this for myself. I have one questions: can I do this process without using DEQ? Different movies are mixed differently and for compressed audio I have to turn up the volume which would mess up DEQ, right? And dont we have to SPL all speakers to about 75db or so if not using DEQ? And can I measure and EQ two subs with REW and MiniDSP before wallthrough this guide? Or is it better to use your Sub Alignment and cross corelation video?
You should measure and create filters for your system at the volume you like to listen to it. If you take these measurements with DEQ on, DEQ will then adjust the calibration for louder or dimmer volumes on the go so it's useful for the problem you mention. It has some odd adjustments for surround and height speakers, etc. but still, it's better than nothing. If you are using multiple subs with a MiniDSP, it's better to time align the subs first using the sub alignment video and dial in the delay settings in MiniDSP.
Can't get started. The MultEQ editor crashes when adding (+) Default.ady . The file is uploaded but crashes when chosen to Send to AVR. I've downloaded, and edited it twice with the same result. Have gotten great results with the addition of the Target curves to each speaker. I had to lower the volume on the subs since I have a miniDSP 2x4 HD for my 4 subs all time aligned and EQed flat. Thank you for all the tutorials. Even if I don't resolve the crashes my home theater sounds fantastic!
The original ady file should be produced in your own app and for your own receiver or else the I'D numbers don't match and might be causing the crashes
Just deleted the MultEQ Editor after moving the curves. Re-install the app and add the Original and Default files with the same result (crash on Default). I'll re-run Audyssey tomorrow and perhaps try to edit an existing 8-position curve.
@@ocaudiophile I made a mistake copying the excel column 1 cell 1 into Original.ady. The transfer was successful! I can now proceed with the rest of the goodness!
amazing tutorial. many thanks! my 2 subs on mini-dsp seem to arrive much later than receiver can set (+6.8m to center). in this case would I just set to maximum available distance? or is there anything smarter I can do?
Million dollar question ;) There's not much you can do to compensate for the time delay introduced by MiniDSP in the reciever. *Play around with bass sync setting if you've a Denon (Marantz don't have it), that might add some delay compensation. *You can switch to IIR filters (biquads) in MiniDSP if you are using FIR filters (taps) which introduce delays to the system. *And last resort: You can align subwoofer's previous impulse peak instead of the highest peak to the center channel
Hey, thanks for this great tutorial. I noticed that the amplitudes of FL and FR are exactly opposite to the rest of the speakers. Do I need to change the plugs on my speakers? Is this the fabled wrong phase? I use a down fire subwoofer which according to impulse response should have a distance of 11 meters and the curve looks more like a mountain without a plane like yours. Is the sub wrong or should I try it in frontfire? I can not set 11 meters distance in the receiver nor do I know later how I want to set the level with the curve of the subwoofer it looks like a mountain with a peak as I said. Thanks in advance for your help
Compare the overlays/phase graphs of front speakers inverting polarity of one of them (REW can do that with one click) and phases match better inverted, then do so physically. It's uncommon front speakers having opposite impulse peak direction but not impossible.
Thanks for your answer. I have switched the cables and now every amplitude shows in same direction. Or is it ok when some speakers have inverted amplitudes? I thought this causes bass problems
@@ocaudiophile I don’t think I have the capability to to extensive manual eqs on my onkyo rz50. It as accuEQ and Dirac. The results you are able to achieve are second to none! I’m always impressed with your knowledge on the subject!
Yet another rookie question : whats more important, setting your avr to - 24.5 and check levels are around 70-71 for C (with 0 db all across the board in the avr volumes) or, raising the level on your avr to hit 75 db in check levels?
Hi, how to use these protocols and what will be the benefits. I couldn't understand the use and benefits and how to apply. I've gone through the document but couldn't understand the application.
When playing sweep file from media player, the response curve capture by REW is 15 db lower than the response curve captured by playing sweep directly from REW. What should be done?
Turn off loudness in the receiver. The menu comes up only during Atmos signal playback so can be hard to find. If that doesn't help then your receiver is one of the few models which applies dialnorm setting to Atmos signals and you cannot do much about it.
Dear sir, Hope u are in good health. I have no word to express for this supreme audyssey calibration tutorial. After complete this , it provide magical improvement of my system . thanks again for this great tutorial. One things I am close but unable to align subwoofer with others speaker from distance setting. When I set right distance for subwoofer by increasing others speaker distance and after set the subwoofer distance then I try to back to set right distance by decreasing others speaker distance but value are not set for distance. Is there any others way to fix . cordially seeking the advice to fix. I am using: Denon X3700h and MINI DSP 2X4 HD Kind regards, Asif kallol
There is a hardware limit of maximum 6 meters you can dial in between subwoofer distance setting and the shortest speaker distance in the group of remaining speakers. If you are not using MiniDSP or a wifi dongle both of which cause extra delays to the signal, you should be able to achieve sync between the sub and the speakers though. Check what is causing the extra delay. If all else is consumed, try to maych another, closer impulse peak of the sub to the main speakers.
Dear Sir, Thanks a lot for ur advise. Still I have need to know little more . Cordially seeking your advice as below point: 1. I aligned subwoofer by following your “optimal subwoofer alignment” tutorial. My system has two subwoofer controlled by MINI DSP 2X4 HP. And final setting of MINI DSP delay value are, one subwoofer is 6.54 and others is O. Now can I increase same delay value for both sub step by step to fix , is it technically logical? 2. My knowledge is very limited , have any advice how I check to find out extra delay causing? Kinds regards, Asif kallol
The delay causing the problem is not the delay between the subs. MiniDSP itself introduces a system delay even when subwoofer distances are all 0 due to the electronic filters in it and your AVR cannot apply enough speaker distance to compensate for it.I ditched my MiniDSP after years because of that. If you share your REW measurements file (.mdat), I can see what can be done best.@@kallolkollol1702
This is really great. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge!! Quick question - do you recommend doing this for 2.1 channel music listening? I have a 5.1 system with Audyssey default calibration. I disabled the mid range compensation using the app because that sounds better to me. I use it for movies. But for music I switch to L/R Bypass and 2.1 stereo mode because that sounds better to me. It comes close to Pure Direct on the Marantz 5015 receiver but a bit better due to the SVS sub filling in. I would love to improve the music experience but I need to set up REW and buy the umik-1 microphone
You can use Audyssey's microphone and REW is free. I extracted the calibration file for it (check my latest video's description link) and its results are quite satisfactory and timing is better than a USB mic. With proper sub-main time alignment and graphic EQ, you can get nice stereo sound.
Thanks for the idea@@ocaudiophile. Unfortunately I cannot connect the Audyssey mic to my Macbook Pro as it does not have a mic input. Neither does my Windows Thinkpad for that matter. I will order the umik-1 in a few days. So you do recommend doing a good calibration for stereo listening
Especially if you have easy to drive mains, you could get good results. With higher end stereo speakers, these AVRs are not powerful enough in general. Good speaker placement and descent DSP always prevails though.
@@ocaudiophile I have B&W 683 towers rated for 89dB sensitivity in the front. Marantz 5015 driving them. I will get external amp later. 80% music 20% movies. I am happy with music just want to see how it can get better
very impressive, thank you very much, another step up to the moon :) by the way, for the LFE cut off at 120Hz, it is not related to setting into the AVR (LPF for LFE) ? and an other thing for the filter curve generation, MultEQ-X app offer the possibity to import REW fiters, it say "EQ is limited to 10hz to 20khz, -10db to +10db, and Q 0.1 to 10" do we have to make sure that the generated filter curve is not going above that ? and thinking if it is better to create a filter curve from the EQ by using a generic filter that match this parameters ?
No, it's not effected by the LFE cut off in the receiver (that was also my first thought and I tried increasing it to 250, no change in response!) You can't replicate these inverted responses accurately with EQ but you don't need to. In REW EQ filter types, choose "Generic" as manufacturer and "Configurable PEQ" as model. Then you can set all these limits for MultEQ-X you've mentioned in the configuration and REW's auto-EQ will "match response to target" within these parameters. Then you can export them to MultEQ-X. Don't forget to keep the target level same for all speakers after initially calculating it as explained in the method.
@@ocaudiophile one little tip about REW zooming, it focus on the cross in the graph, so make sure to clic on the impulse start before cliquing on zoom+. I say that because it hapen to me and now I figured out it helps
I am afraid no. Macbooks don't support bitstream output of DD+ over HDMI, they can only decode to LPCM. I heard that some people managed to do it with some paid software but you need to check the forums. I really am not a Mac guy.
You can however switch speaker cables (not so hard if you're using banana plugs) and use one of the surround channels to play from all the Atmos speakers. The correction files will be accuarte. For timing, you will need to do a calculation based on the distance of the speaker you used
Excellent tutorial. I am in the process of doing the whole thing. Since i have 5.2.4 system, i have 2 questions; how i deal with th le two subwoofers? How indeal with the 4 atmos? Finally it would be nice to show a full frequency response after younadjusted the crossover and see how the suns integrate with the mains
Thanks. If you don't have a minidsp, to manage two subs, remember that Audyssey has only one correction filter for subs. It time and volume aligns each sub and then corrects the sum of the two subs as one.
Can you share the channel order by which we have to paste the numbers from Excel to Json ? My Top front Right and Top rear Right response curve seems far deviated from the target curve. So I had this doubt. 0 - FL 1 - C 2 - FR Like this, can you share the correct order?
Hello and thank you for sharing your knowledge and work. One question so far: You changed low frequency effects to -10db due to Atmos db bosst. Does this apply to a standard 5.1 sytem like I have too or should I leave this option untouched ? Thanks again
Great video, while thinking this through I wonder how you adapt for custom curve in the bass region. Will you just create a target which will not be just "flat" harman curve, but will rather have a little bassboost around 20-100hz? I remember the harman curve you used in your "Audyssey hacks for epic Dolby Atmos" Video had a slightly different harman curve with a little bass boost. So what is the correct harman curve, or to rephrase it, did you edit the harman curve in the former Video more towards your taste in the bass region?
The one in the video is standard, only with extended frequency range. The bass boost will depend on the windowing and to some extent smoothing used on the response. The method in the video yields a very satisfactory bass when applied.
Another great video, thanks again. I can't seem to get audio out of my front height speakers using any of the "Atmos sweeps" files, any ideas? I have double checked all settings for my receiver in windows, made it default device, no enhancements, etc When using the dolby-test_tones_9_1_6 file it does match correctly for all speakers so I'm a bit confused. It's a 5.2.2 system and a denon x4400H (should it be in "Multi Ch in" mode?)
Some things to try: Select "Movie/Stereo" or "Movie/Mult ch in" in the receiver, reinstall Windows Media Player, with default settings, Check sample rates to be all at 48kHz in Windows sound settings, Denon should be the default player, if all else fails try with VLC media player with Windows direct sound and HDMI bypass option active.
Thank you for the excellent video. In the narration you state midrange compensation should be off, but in the JSON editor it shows midrange compensation box as checked (true). Should the box be checked or unchecked? Thank you
Uncheck it for every channel except for the subwoofer channel where it's irrelavant but may help reduce noise in the upper frequencies. The much newer Audyssey ART video is easier to implement btw.
Awesome tutorial. I have questions regarding mic positions measurement for 3 seats first row and 3 seats second row. Where mic positions should be place and how many measurement
Mic positions are easy, at ear height for each of the 6 seats. I guess main position will have to be the middle seat position in the row where ear height is equal to speaker tweeters' height if the rows are inclined, where you regularly sit if floor is flat. You can give increased weights to positions depending on how frequently that seat is occupied.
@@ocaudiophile thank you for the reply. I am not really understand about the main mic position (first measurement mic position). Shall it in the middle between two rows? To get everyone pretty much equal time delay dan volume level? Thanks.
@@1psxpat I'd choose the location that I sit but you can of course choose the central point between rows. That location will sound the better than all others.
Hey OCA, I would like to ask if the „merge b to a“ method to determine the crossover for each pair of loudspeakers is still valid or if you have a newer tip than the method you used in the A R T video (finding intersection points for each loudspeaker which then is entered into the excel file)? I ask because when I use this method (vector average -> merge b to a), set the crossover accordingly (in my case 110 hz) and remeasure, the bass went up from approximately 70 hz to 100 hz showing a huge suckout at the 110 hz crossover point. Any useful tip on this one? Thanks Sir.
I believe, the very best crossover frequency is the frequency your speakers' spec -3/-6dB roll off frequency. This is usually given in the speaker manual. There's no way to phase align speakers and the sub with Audyssey (time alignment is not exactly the same thing) so it's a bit of a hit and miss really. If you want to go through the burden, measure your speaker pair with each possible crossover over frequency when Audyssey is on with REW and pick the flattest response.
@@ocaudiophile, thanks Sir. With Java Excel one can measure LR but cannot with the other speaker pairs, would then measure each speaker with the different crossovers and then vector average the pairs provide the requested solution and is the merge b to a tool still useful? My fronts go down to 26 hz (Nubert Nuvero 140), Center goes down to 36, Surrounds to 36 as well and Atmos speakers 113 hz. So fronts will be fullrange, Center and surrounds 40 (probably 60), atmos 110? Wouldnt that be too many bass sources in the room as I have a huge null in the right front speakers response due to floor or table reflection (I think). What is your opinion on that? If you are interested I can provide my REW file (already corrected speakers) via google drive so that you can have a look, what do you think?
You are right about too many bass sources to manage especially with Audyssey's limited adjustments. I choose to select 40Hz XO for my full range speakers for that reason just to leave bass management to subs. There's really not much you can do for the dips after carefully time aligning subs and speakers. I could have a look but when it comes to crossover frequency selection there's nothing I can do better by looking at measurements. You may try measuring speakers+sub at 40Hz crossovers when sub has customtargetcurve loaded and the speakers are not and regenerate customcurvepoints for speakers. @@saschawehde8072
Awesome! Do you recommend investing $80 for calibrated UMIK-1 microphone for setup or ok to use the mic that comes with Audyssey (I just purchased Denon x4800h receiver that have Audyssey multiq 32x with mic)?
Congrats on your purchase, that receiver has the same processor inside as the top models and is made in Japan. You can use the Audyssey mic that came with the receiver but make sure you use the calibration file with it while measuring speakers in REW. You can find the the link to the calibration file of these mics in this video: ua-cam.com/video/KIozAzQH3CM/v-deo.html
@@leo180811 No, you can even use Audysssey mic with REW to measure your speakers. The tutorial should be showing how. If not that one, definteley the earlier ones on manual tuning.
Hi OCA -Thanks for all your videos, but this one I can't wait to get started on! 2 questions that might be very stupid so please forgive me I have the Marantz SR-6012 - it does have the Audyssey app but I just can't get the web interface to work. I get Error 403 - Forbidden/Access forbidden. 1) should I have the option use the web interface at all? If not I might just have to use setup via the remote control - will work but takes much longer 2) but when I access the setup from the remote control - under audio/surround parameter I don't have "low frequency effects" at all Will that give me problems? Kind regards
I had 6011 and now have 6014 and both have Web access, maybe network control is off in your receiver menu setup. Certain setup parameters only come out when there's an audio signal being fed. Play an atmos track and try reaching that setup menu item.
Hey OCA, how have you been? I've noticed that A over B magnitude division is overcorrecting on the EQs I'm doing. Do you have any idea why? I've seen that treble sometimes needs an increase of 1.5db, but the A over B is increasing by more. Like 2db. What could be causing higher numbers than needed? Is it also taking into account reflections in the sweep? Can I remove that? Or just measure with an RTA?
I guess these deviations are caused by the complicated maths behind the division operation between two FFT's especially when it's not over a flat line but a target curve. The beginning and the end needs some mathematical gizmo to be handled. I use direct 1/A inversion lately over a flat line for that very reason.
Regarding the "Speed of sound" value setting/correction. What is your reference when determining whether your AVR is using 300 or 343 m/s? Do you measure it with a tape/ laser, or do you measure with both Audyssey mic and Umik at the same position and compare?
It's caused by the AVR so it's mic independent. I measure with laser just one of my speakers and compare with Audyysry's own finding. The difference is usually too large and even with tape measure you would understand your receiver is using 300m/s. Btw, after a recent update my Marantz sr6015 now uses 343m/s. Many other models have been fixed but not all.
Hello, could you please tell me the order of videos i should follow. For example, do i first do the sub alignment qnd house curve before doing the steps in this video? Or do this then align the subs?
Hey, thanks a lot for this excellent tutorial! With this I got a very nice calibration for my setup. These changes are applied to all HDMI inputs of the receiver, which is great. However they are not applied correctly to the ARC audio coming back from my TV. Every audio signal coming via ARC from the TV sounds noticable different/worse. I am using a Denon X3400H. Does anybody else have this problem and maybe a solution?
Thanks for your answer. That's a good idea. I will measure all inputs to see what the actual difference looks like and then probably create separate profiles and switch them via the audyssey app. All the best to you!
Hello OCA. After - Pinpointing crossover frequencies for each speaker... I get following error - Error: Speaker has no bass response according to your measurement file. Please check! - program execution has stopped! Please let me know what I might be doing wrong.
Thanks again for your work! Really enjoy how my system is sounding now on my Denon x4400. If I upgrade to an x6700, can I just import my saved profile from my old x4400 to the new x6700? Or do I re-do calibration to the new receiver?
You can manually edit the ady files side by side and copy/paste objects in json online editor but 6700 is a different beast and probably has different crossover rolloffs etc. I'd re-do the measurememts.
Oca for subwoofer crossover how we know where we have to cut our subs i mean in 120 hz or 150 or 200 -250 and also how we know if we need to apply lfe + main or only lfe... Please explain me thank you
That can only be done using exhaustive search algorithms, not possible manually (unless you want to try alignment tool for all possible frequencies). Try Nexus, that will do it all for you.
Hey mate! Sorry, i have another question. Im following this guide to a T, using MultiEQ. Ive noticed that, Im getting a 10db difference in the LFE channel when using the REW sweep vs. The sweep you provide (this sweep is 10db hotter). I verified that I have Low Frequency Effects set to -10 in the AVR. I also verified that this only occurs with the LFE channel (the other sweeps match perfectly.) When I move the LFE effect back to 0, the LFE sweep from REW matches the provided sweep at -10 perfectly as well. Any ideas? And if i cant figure it out, which one would you recommend i use? I have peaks with the provided sweep oved 90db. When using the REW sweep I have peaks over 80. If I move the LFE Effects back to 0, the provided sweep is hitting over 100db.😊 Thanks!
ALways use REW's LFE sweep because Atmos LFE sweep has a low pass filter and introduces extra delays due to that. If you download the latest early access version of REW, there're now measurement settings specific to LFE channel so you don't have to tamper with receiver LFE volume settings.
@Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile hey - I tried using the -10lfe option in REW. I then set up LFE Effects back to 0. The results between selecting the -10db REW LFE option, and not, are nearly exactly the same. There is a slight 3db boost at about 80hz when not using the -10db option in REW, but it doesn't appear to be reducing the LFE channel by 10db. I'm wondering if it's a bug? I'm using ASIO and channel 4. Just wondering if I should stick with the AVR option if the results in REW do not appear to change much when using the new LFE option.
@@thecrlghs The volume depends on the frequency range measured. If you measure LFE from 0hz to 24000hz like other speakers, the volume will not be boosted. If you measure 0hz-200hz for example, receiver will think it's an LFE signal and will boost it. Whether you use REW or dim it in the reciever or simply measure everything 0-24000 without chnaging any volume setting is up to you. They are the same thing.
Hello buddy ... i have a problem with rew... why i cant produce sound from surounds?? I only produce from left and right ... and i have it to asio... theres something i can do???
Did you delete a video (similar to this one) you previously had on your channel? I remember you sharing a file to input in json editor specifically for 80hz (you also had one for 120hz). That procedure worked great for me. I moved my seating & was hoping to use that video as a reference again but can't find it. I've tried this video, but every time I try to import the "dummy" ady file (after using the json editor) into MultEQ, it states that the file is corrupt.
Starting down the path and already have a question. JSON is new to me. I was cutting and pasting and something happened in the editor that collapsed the tree view to one location. The editor just shows an error with 16384 items. How do I go back to see the full tree and continue my work??
Fixed by switching to text mode then back to tree. Uploaded the new audy file to the file (had to change extension from json to audy) but the measurements aren't .4 and the levels are 0 like you show. Whats up??
Just click "New" in the top left menu and drop the .ady file in it again. It will be refreshed. Also check your MS Office regional settings. Some Excel versions can replace , and ; which might be causing the error.
@@ocaudiophile Appreciate that, sir. New to REW and looking forward to getting things dialed in and learning along the way. Already subscribed and appreciate the content!
Just an idea. Create the PEQ in REW, import in Rephase, export impulse response of the filters back in REW, create division of the imported filter versus a flat impulse. This would get the FIR filters from the PEQ. Just tested and seems to be working very well. You can also further PEQ the result and apply another bank of filter correction in Rephase for even further refinment of the initial response. Do you see any issues with this approach?
It should work but with one inversion in REW, you already create the required PEQ settings as custom curve edit points for Audyssey. Besides in general leess is more in digital correction . Too much eq especially in high frequencies will cause boxy sound. Try the method in Audyssey for Dolby Atmos music video where there's less correction and you might prefer that one for movies as well.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you! I will. I learned so much from your videos. I looked at one of my first measurements after Audyssey automatic calibration and it's night and day versus what I got following your methods!
I tried downloading the multeq base measurements to ny pc and turning them into the 0 measurement base file, but no matter whether i try to upload the original or the modified curve, multeq will not accept the file and gives an error with "not right curve file". What can i do, i checked file ending, removed returns in the json editor, copied to windows editor, etc, it will not accept the ady uploaded back to my phone. Any ideas? It seems to work when I use Google drive directly. Don't know what I was doing wrong, but as long as one way works...
Yeah, I found those and they are highly practical. But nevertheless they, too, didn't work until I accessed them from Google drive. Looking forward to proceed the next few days. I plan on aligning the 2 subs as per your multiple sub video first and then I believe I have to Eq them together, right? Merry Christmas.
I am stuck at the ASIO4ALL mic driver issue beyond logic (red exclamation). Trying to resolve the past 2 days. Any help regarding this ?? Can I use the JAVA driver instead ??
I have never seen a better approach to improving the response from our audio components: thank you for sharing this with us. There are multiple references in the comments to your website. Would you share your website url with us, please?
Hey OCA, trust you are well. Got a question on the „determine crossover frequencies“ part of your video. I own 2 pairs of atmos upfiring speakers and I am wondering how to find the correct crossover. Should I vector average TFL and TFR and then trace arr. (merge A to B) with the vector of FL and FR or with the sub? As far as I experienced the atmos effect is better when using a high crossover (e.g. 180). I read somewhere that some bass management systems route in a 2 step way. E.g. Front Height speakers signals below crossover 180 being routed to fronts which are crossed over at 110 hz from there to the subwoofer as usual. What do you think, thanks Sir?
Normally, they should been crossed over with the sub and the method you explained shluld work well. I haven't heard an information on two step crossover for height speakers. What receiver are you using?
Thanks. I use a Marantz 7706 processor. Have read somewhere about the 2 step crossover in an older interview with Andrew Jones since he was working with Pioneer. Besides that I found out measuring the heights as „large“ it’s bass response is kinda same than the front/rear speaker it sits on (measured as large as well -> only looking at the bass region below 200 hz or so). This tells me that the processor is allegedly doing some internal crossover to avoid overdriving the height speakers. When measureing the heights crossed over there is surprisingly no big difference between the frequency responses comparing 200/180/150, weird. As there is no big difference between 120 and 150hz I chose 150 hoping that supports the bouncy effect better.
Makes sense. But if your upfiring speakers are separable, I would suggest trying to hang them up in the front wall and use them as front height speakers. The reflection atmos effect is will always be compromised relatively.
Thanks, this yoúll need to tell my better half 😂, I guess I need to live with that relatively good result. Thanks for your support and that great stuff.
Thanks for that great tutorial. In a previous video you also used parametric eq filters (for yamaha), but i am using multeqx on my denon. Can i also use paraeqs with this tutorial and do i meed the hassle with python and excel, when i can use multeqx?
Denon does not have parametric EQ, it has only a graphic eq with fixed frequency bands but of course you can use that insetad of Audyssey. I have one preset with Audyssey and one preset with GEQ in my Marantz set up.
@@ocaudiophile thanks for the answer. Since multeqx support the usage of parametrics eq i will try my luck. You can also apply them without measuring your speaker wirh audyssey, thats what i want to try with rew then according to yout videos.
I am having an issue where my front left and right mains have a huge null at 120hz when doing the vector average. REW says at ~123hz the phases of L and R are off by 180 degrees. Any ideas?
180 deg difference between phases of left and right speakers is indeed the reason for the drop in VA and it will be audible (or rather inaudible) when both speakers play that frequency, too. Probably different SBIR effects due to asymmetric speaker placement. Check for 70/140cm extra distance travelled from a speaker to LP reflected from surrounding walls that the other speaker doesn't have. Either move the speakers /LP elsewhere or direct 123Hz and below to the subwoofer with a high crossover.
@@ocaudiophile bumping up the xo is one of the things I tried. You are right, my living room has no wall to the left, so the speaker setup is asymmetrical. I also have 2 subs of differing sizes, both on the right side, in opposing corners (Front Right & Rear Right). It's the position where I get the smoothest blending - with the caveat that there is a null right at, you guessed it, 120hz lol. For trying out combinations in REW, I measured each speaker as large and I also measured the subs using the LFE channel with my LPF for LFE set to 250hz so I could get the maximum range. Here is the link to that .mdat file: drive.google.com/file/d/1Yt9Ml_EA3Op8J8suJxTuAHYPex8VvzCT/view?usp=sharing
Adjust FL -0.5dB, FR +0.5dB, SW -1dB. EQ 1/48 smoothed versions of all from 20Hz to 200Hz with 5dB boost for a Dr Toole curve with target level at 52.62dB. Export all 3 filters to the ady and cross over the mains (FL & FR) with your sub @150Hz. That seems to be the only way you can fix taht huge hole around 120Hz without moving speakers or using heavy passive absorption.
I have done the process twice on my SR6015. The second time after calibrating Subs with Mini DSP and treating the Room with some Absorption/Diffusion. However this time my Polk RTi A7 sound very bright? Since the Audyssey App Room Correction Results and Curve Editor graphs are kind of unique after calibrating, I am not sure If I could/should edit them to reduce the brightness. Any recommendations on how to adjust the sound of the Mid Brilliance frequencies w/o going through the trace arithmetic speaker correction process?
You should Switch the “Network Control” setting to “Always On" in the receiver menu. You can leave the sound profile at stereo, it will change automatically.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks :) Network Control was already ON but I saw on forums that Web Control for SR7012 is no longer available (only for SR7015), I have to rollback the FW, but no idea how to hack the AVR FW for this So for stereo I leave Movie Stereo or Pure Stereo ?
@@Mitholman73 I don't change this setting at all, it automatically switches depending on the incoming signal. Stay away from pure direct modes as they bypass the subwoofer and Audyssey settings.
Total thumbs up OCA!!! I've learned so much by watching and working through your videos. I thought the SOTA walkthrough was good. But this was unbelievable the different that I could both hear and measure. Thank you so much.
Glad to hear it!
Thanks! Your tutorials and videos are a must for any HT enthusiast. You should be required reading!
Thank you!
Two quick notes: In REW export all to text, if you change setting 'Export Text Delimiter' to Tab, the numbers will go directly into Excel columns without having to monkey around with the Excel delimiter. Also, if you adjust distances and levels in the Audyssey MultiEQ app instead of in the receiver web portal, although more cumbersome, they will be saved into the .ady file and you won't lose them if you change between different calibrations. Cheers and thanks for another great tutorial!
Ernie, I'm guessing you mean make the adjustments in the the json editor? There are six decimal places for both trim and distance. For trim, did you try entering something other than half dB increments? Wondering if it will accept levels that aren't .5 or whole dB steps.
@@vincentdemarco6374 no I meant inside the audyssey muiltEQ app on your iPad or other device. When you open your calibration file, one of the submenus is (something like) Speaker Results, inside you’ll find crossovers, distances, and levels. If you input the values here they’ll be saved into your calibration .ady file
It only accepts 0.5dB trim adjustments
Thank you again for the wonderful tutorials and amazing help and support!
My pleasure!
Here is my feedback having completed this process. Firstly great learning experience. Going through things a few times makes them easier to follow and dots start connecting. The graphs looking stunning and I was able to follow each step all the way. Then I gave it a listen. My first impression was that the speakers seemed to have come alive a lot more and sounded more immersive but sounded a bit harsh in some instances and the bass seemed weaker to me and also little exaggerated in the upper bass frequencies. I went back and forth with my old settings and the new ones. Since I have a minidsp and a Denon 4700 which has two speaker presets, it was a lot easier to compare. I found the bass sounding better in my old setting so I went back to it but applied some of the learnings from this tutorial to it especially the correction of the impulse responses. That made a big difference and everything sounds better than before. So I ended up with new settings using my old and new and it sounds great.
What was interesting was that the FR between the latest REW and the early access differ. Not sure why but they do. Also for others the controls to see IR distances on IR tab is Ctrl + right mouse key and drag.
Thanks OCA
First of all thank you and congrats on your achievement. REW has been going through an extensive development stage recently and some trace arithmetic basics have been changed although there would not be a difference in the final filters produced.
I have a Denon x3700h andI ended up doing the same as you admittedly, after praising this mothod so much. My results were similar - the mid bass was way too exaggerated and the rest of the speakers sounded like they were crossed over at 200hz, ie; no bass even where the speakers can handle 60hz or even 80hz. I applied the impulse response to all speakers and now my original Audyssey calibration sounds much better. Surprisingly though, the biggest improvement came from turning Loudness Compensation off in the now perfected original calibration. However, after finding the original calibration sounded better, I still learnt so much from this tutorial! I feel like I am now an advanced REW user! Thank you OCA! I hope you can find why the calibration (after following this tutorial) ended up sounding the way it did. I followed it exactly as instructed. I can't wait to try your next tutorial....:)
You're channel is really exceptional in regards to range and depth of the topics. But also practical and precise. Awesome work and I hope you get a much bigger audience soon. Thanks!
Thanks 👍🙏
WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MASSIVE DIFFERENCE !
Hello.
First of all, thank you very much for providing the calibration file.
I wanted to make a comment about how to use it:
I was trying to use the Audyssey mic to check the frequency response of my system playing pink noise and using REW's rta. And I believe the calibration file for the Audyssey mic you provided has the positive and negative values inverted.
My system was already calibrated following the avr's built in audyssey setup procedure.
First I measured with no calibration file at all, and I saw a frequency roll off starting at about 7KHz as expected according to what you showed in your other video about the hidden calibration file of the Audyssey mic. Then I loaded your provided calibration file and took another measurement. Instead of getting a flatter response, the frequency roll off starting at 7KHz was stronger. So I opened your calibration file in notepad texteditor, changed all negative values to positive and changed all positive values to negative, and saved with a new name. I loaded this new calibration file into REW, took a new measurement and got an almost flat frequency response. (The system was set to "flat" multeq profile, not "reference").
The calibration file for REW should show the mic output level at each frequency, not the required compensation. That is to say, if the mic's response is rolling off after 7khz, the values in the calibration file after 7khz should be negative.
I hope my comment to be useful for other users who are in the same situation as me: not having a calibration mic and wanting to use the audyssey mic in REW.
(Forgive me if I did something wrong, perhaps there is a way to load the provided file in REW so that it works as it should and I am not aware of it. I found that the file works inverting the values and I wanted to share it. Also forgive me if you or another user already said the same thing about the calibration file before).
I'll check that when I can (I'm away on holiday). It's remotely possible that cal file I've shared is reversed but I hope you're wrong ;)
You were right, it was having the inverse effect on the measurement. I've now updated the calibration file in all videos with the inverted one. Thanks for your attention!
Please do a moving microphone technique with Audyssey next.
Sure thing!
I spoke to John about the inversion with [A] / [B] magnitude division and it is working correctly. What threw me off was that the calculation in REW displays as the differences on a 0db line. I was expecting it to visually invert the response. However, If you export an inversion and pick an area that looks off in REW. For me its was 16K. Look at the difference in the measure response vs the target curve. Mine was -2.5db in REW. This means that the inversion should be +2.5db and in the text file it was. The biggest thing is the way REW is displaying the correction. It only displays it as the differences on the 0db SPL graph. I had to get my head around this. In the end, A / B magnitude division does work as intended, and the 0db line becomes the target curve.
These tutorials are brilliant
Thank you.
Thank you for all the work you put into this!
Thank you OCA; great video again🙂 i want to try that; in the beginning you mentioned that also MultEQ-X user can apply this method. But how to do this, because the .mqx-files are different and not JSON formated (the Data-section is another format i think)!?
I don't use mqx and not sure what the format of an mqx file is but at the final stage of this method instead of inversion, you can apply REW'S auto EQ to the responses and transfer these filters to multeq-x.
@@ocaudiophile Okay, thank you! But then i think better be careful with statements like this: 'We don’t need ‚MultEQ-X‘, but MultEQ-X users can also easily implement the method', because as it turns out the method can not be used!
@@didi_p7756 There's nothing too wrong with that statement. The method can be implemented for mqx with REW's auto EQ instead of inversion.I have detailed videos on how to use REW's auto-EQ with these receivers.
@@ocaudiophile What do you think about the following workflow for MULTEQ-X users (assuming, as part of the measurement process, MULTEQ-X gets the speaker distances/levels correct)
1. Set REW preferences as prescribed in this video
2. Take all measurements (I.e. three measurements per speaker) with Audyssey enabled how without any Audyssey filters applied (note: MULTEQ-X allows any Audysseyfilters to be disabled via excluding’ ALL measurements in the app
3. Take RMS Average of each set of speaker measurements (I.e. RMS average of the three measurements) Question: Is Vector averaging preferred???
4. Use REW to EQ the response of each speaker’s RMS average
5. Import REW correction/eq filters into MULTEQ-X app
6. Upload to receiver and call it a day!
With the instructions of the Dolby Atmos 9.1.6 video I was able to get also a measuring of the Atmos speakers for my 7.1.4 setup on a MacBook Pro, using VLC media player on my Mac. Afterwards quit simple choose the wav file of the sweeps in REW, start measuring and play in VLC the speaker you are needed, every speakers has is own chapter, great work.
Now this evening I can go further with the instructions of this video with my 36 measurements. Great to do this job with a Mac, I am not an experienced windows user.
Glad to hear that. You're one of the very few who could play the Atmos sweeps with a Mac!
Very strange that Mac users too much problems have with REW. And there is more an advantage for a Mac because you need no special drivers. I use Ventura or on another system Sonoma, and the latest REW from the REW-website. On every mac will plays VLC plays and you give the right files and sweeps in you 9.1.6 video, maybe you can these also add to this video.
Furthermore a Mac User must setup his mouse as a secundary mouse. So you can speak more optimistic in your videos for Mac Users!!!
We love your stuff!
thanks!
Your username is absolutely Perfect Sir. Excellent instructions and great job describing what you are doing and why. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us.
You are very welcome
OCA, thank you for this detailed info. I'm completely new at this hence have a question relating to the beginning of your video where you transfer the Default.ady file to your phone then send it to the AVR, I assume via the MultiEQ editor. I did this and my AVR asked to save it to one of the two presets (I saved to preset 1). I assume this is correct? My real question comes at 6:48 of the video when you then use some sort of in web interface protocol to interact with your AVR. What is the purpose of this? Or can this all be done by directly using the AVR menu via the remote control? Are you using this web interface to simply show your viewers the changes or is there something more behind this action? When I selected my new preset 1 setting and viewed via the AVR (using my remote) the changes you note were there except all my distances were not changed to 0.04m ... they remained at the original Multi EQ actual speaker distance measurements. I apologize for this newby question.
You can use whichever preset you like. I keep one preset for full manual calibration and one preset with Audyssey and Dynamic EQ using this method. The web interface commands can all be done from the receiver menu/remote, this is just a short cut but also a lot easier to change settings from your PC instantly.
Some newer receiver models use a different setting in the ady for speaker distance. You can manually reset them in the reciever setup menu or in the online Json editor before you save the ady file.
Thank you!! With all the videos on your site which one do you recommend I use to maximize my 7.2.4 system (2021 AVR Denon X6700H)? I first experimented by adding the Harmon Curve (as outlined in one of your videos) … which achieved a much improved response.
Of course I now want to see what more we can do with the system. Cheers and thanks again for all your sage advice.
FYI, I tried numerous times to download the REW V5.20.14 file, it appears to work, however it never includes the “house curve” tab under preferences? When I download the REW V5.20.13 it does include the “house curve” tab under preferences. Am I missing something? Can I use the .13 version and still successfully work thru your video(s)? Keeping in mind I’m a REW infantile. 😂
Last questions and I won't bother you anymore. 😁 I decided to try your "Supreme Audyssey Calibration" video (assuming that might be what you advise further to my question above?). I've updated all the preference tabs info. per your video including adding the mic calibration file as I'm using the original Audyssey mic. At 14:00 in the video I'm trying to run the measurement but it gets hung up at "10% Waiting on timing reference" and the graph at the bottom left corner simply keeps scrolling? When running the Check Levels I get the message "Ready to measure..." with the the message "Level Low, -61.2 dBFS, 78db SPL" . FYI, given the Level Low message I tried turning the AVR volume up and still got the message "Level Low, -41.7 dBFS, 98 dB SPL" but it did not help. I then also experimented in the Preferences area "Soundcard" Tab to see about calibrating my soundcard (not sure if I even needed to do that?) and could never get the Input and Output levels even close to matching one another as the volume was waaaay to loud at the original Sweep Level setting of -12 dBFS. I had to adjust the Sweep Level setting to -30 dBFS, in order to turn up the AVR volume enough to match the input/output reading and not blow my speakers (which level was still very loud). Lost in REW Space ... hope you had a great day today and can help.
It's moved to EQ window.@@bradmcneely4745
Even though I run Dirac, I've learned something from every one of your videos. Thank you!!
Great to hear!
Even just getting the distances and sound levels corrected does a lot to improve the cohearency (intended)
i got stuck at the default.ady file transfer at 6:37. multeq app says "the specified file is not located in the devices local storage or is not a proper curve file". Windows sees it as a ady-file but nothing helps here. could you maybe help with this?
Android apps need to use Google drive for transfer for some reason.
@@ocaudiophile thank you so much for the quick reply! i'll try that.
Thanks for your work!
Welcome!
Finally! My system is a new one with you. Especially with my low end Denon 1700h without multieq xt32 the difference is huge in bass management. Thank you so much. Somebody needs to take the method and create a blog post out of it. Because a video sometimes is not the ideal medium while working on such things . Much love ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉
Thanks
Could you do the blog post pls @Squizzy911
Noted!
i have started writing down from your video the steps to do. but still ongoing. a nice blog post on medium or somewhere with nice tables regarding settings in REW, direct download links, hint blocks and so on would make it much better to understand. it would be also possible to make first a 1:1 tutorial out of it without any deep knowledge background which can be collapsed from special blocks. what you think?
@@ocaudiophile
You've my full support but some techniques have evolved and there are automation scripts in the immersive audio and especially Audyssey ART videos. You might wanna take a look at them as welll.@@Squizzy911
Hey man. I finally got around to giving this a shot.
My results were pretty good. Only thing I changed was I made the target curve give me way more bass (about 10db to match the uncorrected curve of my speakers) and I made Audyssey not do any correction after 10khz because the boost of highs was way too fatiguing in my room.
Using this method has made my home theater sound like a real theater. It doesn't sound like speakers, it sounds like sound. No it's not perfect but nothing will ever be perfect in audio. Thanks for the video!
Cheers!
@@ocaudiophile Yeah man you are doing some really good work. Do you take your measurements with sofa cushions on or off? I think the high end boost might be because I measured with my sofa cushions on but I saw another video from HD MOVIE SOURCE saying to measure with the cushions off.
@chadkirk925 The differences are too small to measure precisely. I'd rather put effort to place the mic tip where your ears will exactly be during measurements and leave the room exactly as it will be during film watching for better results.
@@ocaudiophile thanks. That is my thought process too.
Great video, loved it. Learning a lot from your videos, I appreciate all the hard work that you've put into this video.
Glad to hear it!
Thank you very much for taking the time to do this. My receiver only has multeq (not 32 or xt) so I was intrigued by this video. Unfortunately, after completing the process, I got no frequency response below 120hz whatsoever. My sub was set at -12db to hit the target curve and even after boosting it to +12db in the audyssey settings and turning the gain on my amp up an additional 30%(maxed out) there was maybe 1-2mm of travel from my subwoofer and no bass from my bookshelves. I intend to redo the process from creating new corrections forward, potentially with another curve, but I am curious if maybe multeq does not have the resolution that multeqxt32 has and as a result, some numbers may not transfer to my avr. For instance, when adding the 241 points to the custom “target curve points”, could audyssey be ignoring 100 of them or something to this nature because it is the lesser audyssey version?
I don't think number of custom target curve points is a problem for the type of MultEQ as long as the app accepts them (I think the limit is somewhere near 65,000 points). However, MultEQ uses significantly less number of FIR taps compared to XT32 while generating FIR filters which will effect LOW BASS correction very much. In other words, Audyssey may not be able to correct properly to the target curve it's pointed at especially below 100Hz.
@@ocaudiophile Quite appreciative that you took the time to reply. I hope i dont seem as though i am asking for help diagnosing my own issues here. I am simply trying to contribute issues i am having in the event someone else runs into these problems. I am now concerned that the measurements i took with REW were being influenced by the existing Audyssey profile's corrections ( i had a traditional audyssey correction applied prior to starting this guide). I will start from scratch with a factory reset and report back. Once again, thank you.
At 12:00, you describe how to set up the room curve. The settings you give will yield A Harman room curve.
To generate that Harman curve, is REW changing the test tone output to be higher at 20 Hz, then decreasing the amplitude all the way out to 20,000 Hz?
No, REW's sweep volume is fixed throughout the frequency band. Most speakers naturally have this slope towards the high frequencies
I don't understand, yet. When I look at your response curves, they look like they drop about 7 dB from 20-20,000 Hz. I guessed that the sweep amplitude decreased at the slope you entered in the equalizer preference panel, and level matching is how the response fit the Harman curve.
If the sweep volume is constant through that range, what drives the response to a constant negative slope?
@@ronaldippolito6785 The low frequencies are always boosted by the room walls and there's also usually additional downward slope intentionally given by the manufacturers if you check their anechoic response because we tend to hear these frequencies higher than they actually are so in fact it's flat to our ears.
At about 26:10, you change the speed of sound in the 'preferences' pane from 343 meters per second to 300.
Can you please explain what you are doing, and why that works? Thank you...
That's the constant used is the Sound United (Marantz/Denon) receivers to convert time delays to distance and the reason Audyssey will get them all wrong. At some very recent models, they might have fixed this.
@@ocaudiophile Is the 1700h very recent for you?
@@leo180811 I am not sure. They say all models 2022 upwards were fixed with a firmware upgrade. You can compare the real distance of a speaker which you can manually measure with the Audyssey calculated distance and undrestand.
@18:02, if the default is set to my Marantz AVR, is there any special way that Windows Media Player (or anything else) needs to be setup in order to play the height channels? Or will it play them natively?
No change needed in WMP default settings
@@ocaudiophile Thanks! How about when I select the configuration for the Marantz in Windows? 7.1 or do I choose another option? I think there's one that shows up as Atmos, but the diagram disappears when I select it.
I leave it at stereo
@@ocaudiophile This is definitely still not working for me. My default is set to the Marantz AVR and stereo configuration, but the height files are playing out of fronts left and right.
@@vincentdemarco6374 How about when you shut down REW and play these files from WMP?
I'm enjoying going through the process! However, with my Denon x3800 I've seen a few issues after uploading the .ady file back to the receiver and trying to make your changes in the "Cheating Audessey" stage:
1. When I used MultiEQ to create the Original file it knew I had Top speakers... but after uploading the new one the web interface listed them as Front and Rear Height speakers. I changed them to Top Front and Rear under Speakers--Speakers Layout, but wanted to make sure you didn't think there was some other issue.
2. After uploading the Default.ady, in the Distances it did not default the Top speakers to 0.04 like the others. It had a pretty high number on them (like 6 or 8 meters). I manually changed them to 0.04
3. Similarly, my Subwoofer 1 "Level" was -2, whereas all the rest were at 0.
4. When I go to Audio - Sound Parameter, it does not show the same options. It only offers Effect Level, Room Size and Speaker Select... none of which your screen has. Most concerning for me is I don't see where to lower the LFE by -10.
Is it OK that I had to manually update my items 1-3 or did something go wrong when I made by "Default" file?
What are your thoughts on #4? If the Denon interface is different, how do I handle the FLE adjustment?
Lastly, when I was editing the .ady file, it showed 13 channels (7.2.4) as 0-12... but channel #12 (I'm assuming Sub 2) did not have any recorded Response Data for me to be able to edit. Is that how it should be?
Thanks in advance!!!
1. When using MultEQ Editor app (or the receiver's own setup menu) for calibration, user needs to tell the app the correct speaker configuration with amp assign. The method will not change that configuration. I haven't tried manually changing them in the AVR after sending the ady file to the receiver so I am not sure but I wouldn't risk it. I guess it's safer to run a new calibration with the MultEQ editor app with the correct configuration. You can stop it after only 3 measurements.
2. That could also be related to manual speaker configuration change.
3. Levels always came up 0 initially in my tests but I have seen odd volume adjustments in the later stages after re-sending calibrated ady files. Manually correcting them is fine.
4. x3800h has LFE setting in the menu according to this:
manuals.denon.com/AVCX3800H/EU/EN/GFNFSYvdfworfs.php#OKNRMLxabcenvo
You might need to send an LFE signal to the AVR to bring it out.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for your quick response. I started from a new file. It still changed it to Heights instead of Top.... but when I made the change everything else worked properly, so I'm good with that stage!
Now 4 questions/issues with Measuring:
1. I'm now having an issue with the .mp4 files not playing properly. I checked and my AVR is showing as the default audio device. I do have the Windows Sound settings set to Atmos and I can play the Dolby Test Tones perfectly fine and the Denon shows Atmos. When I play the .mp4 files it shows Multi-channel-in instead of Atmos... and plays all the recordings as Stereo.
2. Should the volume on the laptop be up to 100 for these tests? At first the volume was very low until I did that. Just want to make sure that's right.
3. I normally watch movies around -20db. When I ran Left and Right tests at that level I received an error message that the signal was not high enough. I then raised it to -10 and it seems to work, although that is higher than I normally play it.
4. Even when at -10, I receive an error message that the signal to noise ratio is too low. I've even turned off the air conditioning when doing the test and still get the message. The room is pretty quiet except for the sound of my laptop's fan. Is there something I need to correct, or do I just tell it to stop giving me that message?
Thanks again!
1. Windows sound settings should NOT be set to Atmos, setting to "Stereo" should work fine(AVR set as default playback player, L&R set to Large, all enhancements disabled, give exclusive control to other apps, etc. all ticked, 16 or 24 bit but definetely 48000Hz sampling rate selected). Windows Media Player at default settings, reinstall it if need be. The AVR should be in Movie/Multch-in or stereo mode. Try until you see the AVR switching to Atmos when you double click and play any of the mp4 files with WMP (you don't need to play them through REW).
2. All volumes should be at 100
3. Sounds like you microphone input level is too low, REW should normally easily measure levels as low as -40dB. Check your microphone input levels in Windows sound settings.
4. You may want to switch to Java EXCL drivers instead of ASIO, usually they're easier to set up.
Hi OCA,
In the video at 43:57, I don't see the category "customTargetCurvePoints" in my .ady file in the JSON Editor. Using a Marantz Cinema 50. So I'm not sure where I should input the REW response. Thanks in advance for your help.
Is your MultEQ Editor app up to date? Custom curve points should definetely be there. There have been people who applied this method successfully with Marantz CInema 50.
@@ocaudiophile it was some bug with the exported .ady file. I exported again and the setting was available in JSON Editor.
Finally finished all the steps in this method and I can immediately notice a significant improvement in the height channels. However, the bass response seems to very low. I have double checked that LFE level is set to 0 and not at -10. Still can't figure out what's causing this. In REW, the subwoofer response looked fine.
Loudness management is on in most models by default. It could be a reason but best way is to remeasure speakers and sub with the new settings active and check in REW what's going on.
@@ocaudiophile thank you! When measuring sub impulse response, the distance adjustment from Center Channel peak impulse to Subwoofer peak impulse is showing to be 12 meters (!!). Obviously this cannot even be configured. So I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong. Is there any other way to time align the sub?
@@ElectroPineapple are you using minidsp for the sub? It usually introduces such delays causing 12m distance requirements. You can align subwoofers first peak rather than the highest peak with the acoustic reference speaker instead.
Excellent video with excellent results, I congratulate you for the great work and for the dissemination
Thank you very much!
Tak!
First ever DKK asset I have in my life ;)
@@ocaudiophile well..we are almost neighbors so :D
@@_shogun_gaming_ 😅
So i finished the calibration and it all sounds excellent. Thanks
Subwoofer is still not perfect and is difficult to integrate because i have a pretty big peak around 25hz and my line is nowhere near as straight as yours
Hmm maybe i messed up the subwoofer measurements / eq?
ill try doing the sub again later
I might just need a second sub
And the crossovers are surprising..
Front and surround back 110hz looks the best, center and side surrounds 60hz looks the best
Maybe it has to do with my room
(My fronts are Polk R200 bookshelfs, should go down lower just fine)
Subwoofer response is the hardest one to get right and unfortunately the most dominant on good overall sound. DEQ changing bass boost for every volume level doesn't help either. Still, Audyssey should be able to kill that boost at 25Hz (unless you have XT rather XT32) and remember that after heavy EQ is applied sub's impulse peak might move a little bit and may need distance readjustment.
You can try and XO every speaker at their specs (ie -3dB roll off frequencies). If your speaker pairs are relatively symmetric, this might give even better results.
@@ocaudiophile yeah I saw the peak and thought maybe I didn't perform the room correction step properly on the sub
Gonna redo it 🙂
Please a little clarification for me, At around 51:00 I made copies of the sweeps, applied Align Spl (for speech), and then compared sweeps with their copy and applied Spl Offset.
Do the new Spl offsets replace the AVR Speaker Levels previously set or do you add the Spl Offsets to the AVR Speaker Levels? I tried both and the results were no better than the first applied inversion (before 51:00).
I've previously aligned my subs following your tutorial. Got them flat. The distance from the sub to the center speaker measures between 7-9 meters depending if you measure from the bottom or top peaks. The center speaker distance to the MLP is 1.91 meters. So my total distance is approximately 11 meters to add to the subwoofer distance in the DENON AVR!? 7.90 meters is the highest distance that can be entered. I'm confused.
I understand the confusion. Actually REW now shows the SPL offset applied to a measurement during "Align SPL" process in the Info window under "Align Offset:" so you don't need to make copies. just check these for each measurement. I explained this method in detail around 08:35 minutes into the following video:
ua-cam.com/video/4gVUdArG7oA/v-deo.html
@@ocaudiophile In the Audyssey calibration for Dolby Atmos Music video you apply Cross correlation alignment with the Vector Avg Sweeps and Actual Time(distance) Aligned measurements is that new? Should it be employed here also?
@@CarlosGomez-THX_1138 It takes the precision one step further and helps in finding the correct crossover points. As you cannot adjust speaker distances with high accuracy in the reciever, this extra step helps REW to use the actual speaker distances and calculate phase interactions with the sub better. It's up to you to try and test the results.
In REW, after applying Align SPL @1000Hz and entering the Levels in the AVR, can we then apply, in REW, Align SPL @200Hz and adjust the Levels in the AVR? or do we apply the Align SPL as depicted in this video?
@@ocaudiophile it works!
At 8:20, you tell us how to use the control protocols to set the maximum volume to that which you use for watching movies.
I watch movies at a lower volume than you do. How did you convert your listening volume into the value you sent for maximum volume?
İ use 55 which is equal to -24dBfs, just replace 55 with a lower number
Once we set the max volume ( with the protocol command) that volume that we watch movies, should we make all our measurements at that volume on the preamp?
@@ronaldippolito6785 Yes, especially if you intend to use dynamic eq or dynamic volume because Audyssey will apply different levels of boost to different channels depending on the volume of the amp.
Thanks
Many thanks!
@@ocaudiophile
Only fair with a the help you have given me!
This is all really great, but I am confused about a discrepancy between the Speaker Level settings at two points in your video. At 36:58 you show values for, say, the LCR at -1.0/+2.5/-1.0, but at 46:00, after explaining to take a note of the Speaker Level and distances settings before uploading the curve-edited .ady file, you enter values of -4.0/+0.5/-4.5 for the same three speakers. How/why do those values differ when they should have been the same as the noted values prior to uploading the curve-edited .ady file indicated at 36:58?
:) Your attention to detail is amazing and you're right but in the middle of the calibration during recording the video, I figured I forgot to take a note of the levels so I used levels from another measurement. Just ignore the differences and follow the method!
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for that info - good to know, and now my brain can rest easy :) I did have another question after giving this process some thought: If one doesn't like what Dynamic EQ does to the sound in one's system, does this method work without having that enabled? I find that DEQ really bloats the bass, and makes it sound too overbearing, so I personally turn it off.
@@discostu668 I never turned DEQ on myself for the exact same reasons but this method tames all its disadvantages at the usual volume level you listen to your system and makes use of its boosts at lower volume levels. If you still don't want to use DEQ or DV then you can do a manul calibration with Graphic Equalizer. You'll find two videos on that in my channel.
@@ocaudiophile That is also very good to know. Once I get around to the small re-arrangement of my HT system, I'm definitely going to try this method out. Thankfully, I'm only running a 3.1 system, so I won't have to go through so many measurements! I'm looking forward to seeing how this method changes the sound in my space. The thing that struck me the most was the method used to determine the speaker crossovers.
At the 23:30 point in your video, you are going to vector average front left three measurements. You also included the copy of the time-aligned measurements.
Why did you include the three original measurements, if you had the time -aligned version?
All 3 measurements were already time aligned with cross correlation. The 4th is a copy of the central measurement and a copy of of a time-aligned measurement is also time-aligned. The reason I added the central measurement twice to the average is to give it more weight in the average. The reason for evarging them is to find the true speaker response in a larger area.
Hey OCA, hope you wouldn´t mind that I am asking for your valued support (and knowledge). Attached you will find the link to my measurements (mdat), all full range (Subwoofer measured 0 -250 hz when I remember correctly). What I am looking for is an idea of how I should set my Subwoofers polarity. At the moment they are not inverted yet and sound louder than when I am switching polarity (tested with various music / movie snippets). When looking at my measurements all impulse peaks pointning downwards although the connetions are correct. Step responses showing a typical 3 way speaker response as far as I learned. I am using a Umik 1 for the measurements and the REW "invert" button in the soundcard preferences window was not ticked. I thought my soundcard may be polarity inverted which I not yet checked by measuring with ticked REW "invert" button in the soundcard preferences. I tested to invert the subs polarity in REW (SPL&Phase) and this seems to look ok when viewing impulse responses (all pointing downwards). I cannot reach the main impulse of the sub due to the 6m limitation of my AV7706. Thanks so much Sir. drive.google.com/file/d/1DgIdAJkFkqyax5kh589favqCipH6qZBy/view?usp=sharing
Your speaker and subwoofer polarities are corrrect (based on the "no audyssey" measurements, didn't check presets). Subwoofer delay required is above 6m so you are right that you'll need to compromise. These are the volume and time (distance) alignment settings you need:
Speaker SPL Distance (m)
FL 0.5 -0.014
C 1.0 0.000
FR 0.5 0.013
SL -1.0 0.001
SR -1.0 -0.009
SW -7.0 3.438
I also created your custom PEQ filters ready to be exported in the mdat:
drive.google.com/file/d/1zpyRESa4r-0ROVOo3in9vMsaSlnXioVk/view?usp=sharing
Just use these filters with the above volume/distance settings and you should be golden. I leave crossover selection to you.
@@ocaudiophile, thanks so much Sir. Can you let me know why the polarity is correct although subwoofers impulse is pointing upwards while the others pointing downwards (100%)? How did you know that the polarities are correct (would like to understand how to read the impulse graph -> pointing upward vs downward). Besides that, I appreciate the knowledge you gain with your videos, learned so much since I started watching your videos and testing with my system. Best content for anyone interested in getting the best out their sound systems.
@@ocaudiophile, the volume and time differences you mention should be added to the actual distances I set in the processor (and have been used for the measurements) ? My subwoofer distance is already 7.31 meter vs the shortest being SR = 1.45 (SL 1.51) meters. FL, C, FR 2.93. So I assume there is no way adding more distance to the sub. What do you think? Thanks Sir.
@saschawehde8072 I had no way of understanding this from your mdat file. I thought no aud measurements are also taken with equal distances setup. You need to find out what's adding so much delay to the sub then,
@@ocaudiophile, thanks a lot, I should have mention that, sorry. And thanks for taking the time to read through my long post.
This was fantastic. Learned a lot from your videos. I'm excited to try them out on my system.
Great to hear!
@@ocaudiophile i have the x3700 denon BUT in the web interface i don't HAVE the setting "LOW frequency effects" !! am i doing something wrong or maybe some models don't have it ?!
update : i had to play a movie with LFE to be able to SEE that setting !
I have taken measurements at the three points, and am now ready to time align them.
At about 20:30, you mention a new REW feature called something like 'copy selections to other overlay graphs'. How are you getting that pop-up that contains that new feature?
Mouse right click on the bottom window
@@ocaudiophile I must not be on the same version of REW as you, since that command is not available when I right-click on that bottom window. I am on the released Mac version of REW, version 5.20.13.
I found that there is a newer version (5.20.14), early access build. I installed that one, and it has the command that you use in your video.
@@ronaldippolito6785 Google "REW early access version"
Hello and big thank you for the great tutorial.
After following the steps I finally hear my Dolby Enabled Speakers reflecting from the sealing. The sound in movies is impressive, compared to the sound the system does with just Audyssey. I don't know what the people at Audyssey tought when inventing the correction curves for the Atmos speakers, but it is not working well. The Atmos effect with my 4 Dolby Enabled Speakers is now, implementing your method, great. I now understand why people think, the "bouncing" speakers are crap. Audyssey cuts them in such a way they really sound as crap.
One thing, that makes me think that I might have made a mistake at some point through the tutorial is the fact, I still have to adjust to the high pitch of the sound. With Audyssey it is somehow warmer...And my correction curve in MultyEQ app after finishing your method looks like a zigzag with multiple zigzags... Don't know if this should be the outcome...If you can share your MultyEQ curve after implementing your method I would be glad to compare to main, just to be sure, main is OK...I cannot actually call my outcome a "curve" :)
Big Thanks for your time and the comprehensive why of taking me trough the tutorial.
Don't worry, it's gotta be a zigzag. The method uses Audyssey curves to apply the actual correction. The zigzags you see are the equalization applied to each speaker. I didn't undertstand what you mean by adjusting high pitch of the sound?
@@ocaudiophile If I compare the sound of the outcome now with the sound of audyssey, then I feel like the sound is much more "sharper" (almost scratching my ears form time to time), less "warm", and voices come out "thinner", thinner perhaps because of the presence of the high frequencies, which were not there before...For me now, it is as if I have different speakers, and I have to get comfortable with them first...
When I look for the crossovers with your method, my crossover for the Dolby Enabled Bouncy Speakers comes out at 90 Hz. What would you recommend me to do with this relatively low frequency. Should I crossover them higher like 150 hz? Somewhere in your video you talked about high speakers and crossing them also at 80 hz, to avoid hearing the top sound out from the subwoofer on the ground. Or perhaps I misunderstood something...Of course my dolby enabled speakers are not high speakers...Perhaps thatswhy I should choose the higher crossover?
Front speakers have the option for 60 hz and 90 hz
Center comes out on 40 hz or 80 hz
Surround at 60 hz , 90 hz or 120 hz
What frequency would you choose in my place?
Now I am mrunning Front @ 90 hz; Center @ 80 hz; Surround @ 90; Dolby Enabled Modules @ 150 hz
Thank you in advance!
@@miroslavpetkov9895 Do you have one or two subs and how are they connected(ie MiniDSP or directly to the receiver)?
@@ocaudiophile I have only one Sub (SVS SB 2000 the older version, not the pro version) at the present moment. My room is small 6,50 m to 5,05 m to 2,47 m. My speakers are Heco The New Statement as front, Heco Celan GT 42 as center, Heco Revolution 3 as surround, Heco AM 200 as Dolby enabled speakers in a 5.1.4 configuration. All of this is connected directly to my AV-Receiver Marantz SR 8012.
Appreciating your help.
Thanks.
@@miroslavpetkov9895 Ok, if you don't use MiniDSP for your sub you can time align the sub properly with the receiver's distance settings. MiniDSP causes extra processing delays which makes this very difficult. When the sub is time aligned, it will be very easy to see where the crossover frequencies should be. For the treble problem you're having, suggest you follow the method in the Dolby Atmos Music video. I used Dolby's own target curve there which is much softer at the high frequencies.
Hello. I did the JSON editing part. I opened it back in JSON to make sure it was showing the new values. Still after importing it into my AVR, I checked the levels and distances and they were not as expected.
Any idea what could be wrong?
Thanks!!
Are you on MultEQ-XT or XT32?
@@ocaudiophile XT32
Then it should work fine. Some XT users encountered similar problems. Have you converted responses of ALL speakers including the subwoofer to perfect (1,0,0,0....)?
@@ocaudiophile Yes I checked a few times and all of them are showing the correct numbers including the subwoofer. Bummer :/
Thank you! I've waited a long time for someone to do a tutorial manually tuning HT/atmos speakers. Bless you! .....Initially, I tested the sweep files on all my speakers and determined that two of my Atmos speaker's high frequencies dropped precipitously around 1000Hz. Thank you for the files to test them. In the Denon AVR-X4700H Low Frequency Effects are displayed when
"This item can be selected when a Dolby Digital or DTS signal or DVD-Audio is played." I did not set this initially and continued with the tutorial with 7.1. Should I have played a DTS movie and then set this at the beginning? What do I set the Reference Level Offset given I did not set Low Frequency Effects?
Thank you for bringing my Home Theater to life. My 7.1 sounds so good I wonder whether I needed Atmos.
I suggest you use Denon's web interface to change its settings. WHen you start palying any of the sweep files with Windows Media Player, all these settings will sho up in the web interface and you can adjust them. RLO has nothing to do with LFE. LFE -10dB offset is just a temporary setting to see the sub response where it really is relative to other speakers. RLO is a setting which adjusts the strength of DYnamic EQ.
I'm stuck at importing txt file into Excel "Audyssey Curve editor". Somehow I have commas instead of dots in dB values..And then when I apply "convert text to colums" with Space ticked, the excel erases commas in dB values or example : from -3,965 i get -3965, and this of course don't work later in JSON. EDIT : I found the solution - when export I needed to tick "Use computer's number format"
Hi d1234
I have the same issue as you have (or had) - but you have found a solution. Unfortunately I still have the problem.
When I have the raw text in Notepad it wil say ex -3.965 but as soon as I paste it into Excel it converts to -3,965
so comma instead of dot - and I can't get JSON to accept this format. Have you succeded in that d1234?
I can't for the life of me find out what the heck I'm doing wrong?!
Still hopeful regards
It's related to your Windows regional settings which effect use of . or , for decimals. You can fix that either through Windows settings or by simply editing the formula in XL.
Thanks!
So, in the preferences section of REW, keep ‘decimate IR’ ticked? I thought you had previously advised against such?
Decimate IR should ideally be unticked but it has no effect on this correction method. I just tried to keep it as simple as possible.
Got it. Thanks!
@@ocaudiophile I get it. Definitely understand your desire to only focus on the things that matter.
First, thank you very much for this guide. I am eager to try this for myself.
I have one questions: can I do this process without using DEQ? Different movies are mixed differently and for compressed audio I have to turn up the volume which would mess up DEQ, right?
And dont we have to SPL all speakers to about 75db or so if not using DEQ?
And can I measure and EQ two subs with REW and MiniDSP before wallthrough this guide? Or is it better to use your Sub Alignment and cross corelation video?
You should measure and create filters for your system at the volume you like to listen to it. If you take these measurements with DEQ on, DEQ will then adjust the calibration for louder or dimmer volumes on the go so it's useful for the problem you mention. It has some odd adjustments for surround and height speakers, etc. but still, it's better than nothing.
If you are using multiple subs with a MiniDSP, it's better to time align the subs first using the sub alignment video and dial in the delay settings in MiniDSP.
Can't get started. The MultEQ editor crashes when adding (+) Default.ady . The file is uploaded but crashes when chosen to Send to AVR. I've downloaded, and edited it twice with the same result.
Have gotten great results with the addition of the Target curves to each speaker. I had to lower the volume on the subs since I have a miniDSP 2x4 HD for my 4 subs all time aligned and EQed flat. Thank you for all the tutorials. Even if I don't resolve the crashes my home theater sounds fantastic!
The original ady file should be produced in your own app and for your own receiver or else the I'D numbers don't match and might be causing the crashes
@@ocaudiophile When compared using the Online Json Editor this is the result. Shorten on purpose
Default.ady
"responseData": {
"0": [
"Dirac",
[
"1",
"0",
|
|
|
"0",
"0",
"0"
]
]
},
Original.ady
"responseData": {
"0": [
"-0.000387435",
"-0.0003729709",
"-0.0004029804",
|
|
|
"0.0002611181",
"0.0004911968",
"0.0004621806"
]
},
"targetModelName": "Denon AVR-X4700H", on both files
Just deleted the MultEQ Editor after moving the curves. Re-install the app and add the Original and Default files with the same result (crash on Default).
I'll re-run Audyssey tomorrow and perhaps try to edit an existing 8-position curve.
@@CarlosGomez-THX_1138 No need to go for all 8 measurements, you can end in just 3 measurements.
@@ocaudiophile I made a mistake copying the excel column 1 cell 1 into Original.ady. The transfer was successful! I can now proceed with the rest of the goodness!
Just finished the calibration. What a difference!!!! How can I offer you a coffee? Where is the donate button, I need it now 🤣
Can you explain the difference from Audyssey (refined post calibration) to this method? I am starting this process soon...
This one uses Audyssey and dynamic EQ so it has better low volume equalisation. It can also be more accurate compared to manual GEQ bands
2nd question. Do you know what key and mouse strokes are used on a mac to determine the speaker distances on the impulse graph in overlays?
I don't have a Mac but should be ⌘ key instead of CTRL plus mouse right click?
Configure the mouse button as "Secondary Button," hold down CTRL and the button and click and drag. Intuitively obvious, no? 🙂
amazing tutorial. many thanks! my 2 subs on mini-dsp seem to arrive much later than receiver can set (+6.8m to center). in this case would I just set to maximum available distance? or is there anything smarter I can do?
Million dollar question ;) There's not much you can do to compensate for the time delay introduced by MiniDSP in the reciever.
*Play around with bass sync setting if you've a Denon (Marantz don't have it), that might add some delay compensation.
*You can switch to IIR filters (biquads) in MiniDSP if you are using FIR filters (taps) which introduce delays to the system.
*And last resort: You can align subwoofer's previous impulse peak instead of the highest peak to the center channel
Would love to see a video on using RTA!
Coming soon!
Danke!
Many thanks, you didn't need to!
Hey, thanks for this great tutorial. I noticed that the amplitudes of FL and FR are exactly opposite to the rest of the speakers. Do I need to change the plugs on my speakers? Is this the fabled wrong phase?
I use a down fire subwoofer which according to impulse response should have a distance of 11 meters and the curve looks more like a mountain without a plane like yours. Is the sub wrong or should I try it in frontfire? I can not set 11 meters distance in the receiver nor do I know later how I want to set the level with the curve of the subwoofer it looks like a mountain with a peak as I said. Thanks in advance for your help
Compare the overlays/phase graphs of front speakers inverting polarity of one of them (REW can do that with one click) and phases match better inverted, then do so physically. It's uncommon front speakers having opposite impulse peak direction but not impossible.
Thanks for your answer. I have switched the cables and now every amplitude shows in same direction. Or is it ok when some speakers have inverted amplitudes? I thought this causes bass problems
Great video. If you ever have the inclination, please do a Dirac video.
Thank you. I don't use Dirac. Automated calibrations are no match for a proper custom calibration.
@@ocaudiophile I don’t think I have the capability to to extensive manual eqs on my onkyo rz50. It as accuEQ and Dirac.
The results you are able to achieve are second to none! I’m always impressed with your knowledge on the subject!
@@SunnySkiesInAZ Onkyo has a better graphic equalizer than Denon/Marantz. You can apply the method in the manual atmos calibration video.
Yet another rookie question : whats more important, setting your avr to - 24.5 and check levels are around 70-71 for C (with 0 db all across the board in the avr volumes) or, raising the level on your avr to hit 75 db in check levels?
There shouldn't be any. A step is skipped in the video by mistake. It's explained in the description area.
@@ocaudiophile i switched my avr to 0-98 db scale, and at volume 55 its pretty close to 75 actually ;)
Hi, how to use these protocols and what will be the benefits. I couldn't understand the use and benefits and how to apply. I've gone through the document but couldn't understand the application.
Better try Audyssey ART video method, it has automation scripts which accelerates the manual processes
When playing sweep file from media player, the response curve capture by REW is 15 db lower than the response curve captured by playing sweep directly from REW. What should be done?
Turn off loudness in the receiver. The menu comes up only during Atmos signal playback so can be hard to find. If that doesn't help then your receiver is one of the few models which applies dialnorm setting to Atmos signals and you cannot do much about it.
Dear sir,
Hope u are in good health.
I have no word to express for this supreme audyssey calibration tutorial. After complete this , it provide magical improvement of my system . thanks again for this great tutorial.
One things I am close but unable to align subwoofer with others speaker from distance setting. When I set right distance for subwoofer by increasing others speaker distance and after set the subwoofer distance then I try to back to set right distance by decreasing others speaker distance but value are not set for distance. Is there any others way to fix . cordially seeking the advice to fix.
I am using: Denon X3700h and MINI DSP 2X4 HD
Kind regards,
Asif kallol
There is a hardware limit of maximum 6 meters you can dial in between subwoofer distance setting and the shortest speaker distance in the group of remaining speakers. If you are not using MiniDSP or a wifi dongle both of which cause extra delays to the signal, you should be able to achieve sync between the sub and the speakers though. Check what is causing the extra delay. If all else is consumed, try to maych another, closer impulse peak of the sub to the main speakers.
Dear Sir,
Thanks a lot for ur advise. Still I have need to know little more . Cordially seeking your advice as below point:
1. I aligned subwoofer by following your “optimal subwoofer alignment” tutorial. My system has two subwoofer controlled by MINI DSP 2X4 HP. And final setting of MINI DSP delay value are, one subwoofer is 6.54 and others is O.
Now can I increase same delay value for both sub step by step to fix , is it technically logical?
2. My knowledge is very limited , have any advice how I check to find out extra delay causing?
Kinds regards,
Asif kallol
The delay causing the problem is not the delay between the subs. MiniDSP itself introduces a system delay even when subwoofer distances are all 0 due to the electronic filters in it and your AVR cannot apply enough speaker distance to compensate for it.I ditched my MiniDSP after years because of that. If you share your REW measurements file (.mdat), I can see what can be done best.@@kallolkollol1702
Dear sir,
How i share mdat file? Cal i get ur mail address or if any.
@kallolkollol1702 youtube will not delete google drive links posted here
This is really great. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge!! Quick question - do you recommend doing this for 2.1 channel music listening? I have a 5.1 system with Audyssey default calibration. I disabled the mid range compensation using the app because that sounds better to me. I use it for movies. But for music I switch to L/R Bypass and 2.1 stereo mode because that sounds better to me. It comes close to Pure Direct on the Marantz 5015 receiver but a bit better due to the SVS sub filling in. I would love to improve the music experience but I need to set up REW and buy the umik-1 microphone
You can use Audyssey's microphone and REW is free. I extracted the calibration file for it (check my latest video's description link) and its results are quite satisfactory and timing is better than a USB mic. With proper sub-main time alignment and graphic EQ, you can get nice stereo sound.
Thanks for the idea@@ocaudiophile. Unfortunately I cannot connect the Audyssey mic to my Macbook Pro as it does not have a mic input. Neither does my Windows Thinkpad for that matter. I will order the umik-1 in a few days. So you do recommend doing a good calibration for stereo listening
Especially if you have easy to drive mains, you could get good results. With higher end stereo speakers, these AVRs are not powerful enough in general. Good speaker placement and descent DSP always prevails though.
@@ocaudiophile I have B&W 683 towers rated for 89dB sensitivity in the front. Marantz 5015 driving them. I will get external amp later. 80% music 20% movies. I am happy with music just want to see how it can get better
very impressive, thank you very much, another step up to the moon :) by the way, for the LFE cut off at 120Hz, it is not related to setting into the AVR (LPF for LFE) ? and an other thing for the filter curve generation, MultEQ-X app offer the possibity to import REW fiters, it say "EQ is limited to 10hz to 20khz, -10db to +10db, and Q 0.1 to 10" do we have to make sure that the generated filter curve is not going above that ? and thinking if it is better to create a filter curve from the EQ by using a generic filter that match this parameters ?
No, it's not effected by the LFE cut off in the receiver (that was also my first thought and I tried increasing it to 250, no change in response!)
You can't replicate these inverted responses accurately with EQ but you don't need to. In REW EQ filter types, choose "Generic" as manufacturer and "Configurable PEQ" as model. Then you can set all these limits for MultEQ-X you've mentioned in the configuration and REW's auto-EQ will "match response to target" within these parameters. Then you can export them to MultEQ-X. Don't forget to keep the target level same for all speakers after initially calculating it as explained in the method.
@@ocaudiophile one little tip about REW zooming, it focus on the cross in the graph, so make sure to clic on the impulse start before cliquing on zoom+. I say that because it hapen to me and now I figured out it helps
@@armagedon2B noted thanks!
Great video. Do you know if the dolby surround speaker files will work with a macbook?
I am afraid no. Macbooks don't support bitstream output of DD+ over HDMI, they can only decode to LPCM. I heard that some people managed to do it with some paid software but you need to check the forums. I really am not a Mac guy.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks.
Would it work if I copied files to USB drive and played through my Oppo dvd player?
@@djcradd I never tried but it should as long as it can decode DD+
You can however switch speaker cables (not so hard if you're using banana plugs) and use one of the surround channels to play from all the Atmos speakers. The correction files will be accuarte. For timing, you will need to do a calculation based on the distance of the speaker you used
Excellent tutorial. I am in the process of doing the whole thing. Since i have 5.2.4 system, i have 2 questions; how i deal with th le two subwoofers? How indeal with the 4 atmos? Finally it would be nice to show a full frequency response after younadjusted the crossover and see how the suns integrate with the mains
Thanks. If you don't have a minidsp, to manage two subs, remember that Audyssey has only one correction filter for subs. It time and volume aligns each sub and then corrects the sum of the two subs as one.
Can you share the channel order by which we have to paste the numbers from Excel to Json ? My Top front Right and Top rear Right response curve seems far deviated from the target curve. So I had this doubt.
0 - FL
1 - C
2 - FR
Like this, can you share the correct order?
Your assumption is correct. If you follow the much newer Audyssey ART video tutorial, there're automation scripts which ease these tasks quite a bit.
Hello and thank you for sharing your knowledge and work. One question so far: You changed low frequency effects to -10db due to Atmos db bosst. Does this apply to a standard 5.1 sytem like I have too or should I leave this option untouched ? Thanks again
Yes and yes but best way to find out to listen the result yourself
Hello oca how can i make full range calibration my speakers with evo ??? Please little help
Use the method explained in Audyssey ART video. It's the best way to do full range EQ.
Great video, while thinking this through I wonder how you adapt for custom curve in the bass region. Will you just create a target which will not be just "flat" harman curve, but will rather have a little bassboost around 20-100hz?
I remember the harman curve you used in your "Audyssey hacks for epic Dolby Atmos" Video had a slightly different harman curve with a little bass boost. So what is the correct harman curve, or to rephrase it, did you edit the harman curve in the former Video more towards your taste in the bass region?
The one in the video is standard, only with extended frequency range. The bass boost will depend on the windowing and to some extent smoothing used on the response. The method in the video yields a very satisfactory bass when applied.
Another great video, thanks again.
I can't seem to get audio out of my front height speakers using any of the "Atmos sweeps" files, any ideas?
I have double checked all settings for my receiver in windows, made it default device, no enhancements, etc
When using the dolby-test_tones_9_1_6 file it does match correctly for all speakers so I'm a bit confused.
It's a 5.2.2 system and a denon x4400H (should it be in "Multi Ch in" mode?)
Some things to try: Select "Movie/Stereo" or "Movie/Mult ch in" in the receiver, reinstall Windows Media Player, with default settings, Check sample rates to be all at 48kHz in Windows sound settings, Denon should be the default player, if all else fails try with VLC media player with Windows direct sound and HDMI bypass option active.
Thanks so much for putting this together!!
My pleasure!
Thank you for the excellent video. In the narration you state midrange compensation should be off, but in the JSON editor it shows midrange compensation box as checked (true). Should the box be checked or unchecked? Thank you
Uncheck it for every channel except for the subwoofer channel where it's irrelavant but may help reduce noise in the upper frequencies. The much newer Audyssey ART video is easier to implement btw.
Awesome tutorial. I have questions regarding mic positions measurement for 3 seats first row and 3 seats second row. Where mic positions should be place and how many measurement
Mic positions are easy, at ear height for each of the 6 seats. I guess main position will have to be the middle seat position in the row where ear height is equal to speaker tweeters' height if the rows are inclined, where you regularly sit if floor is flat. You can give increased weights to positions depending on how frequently that seat is occupied.
@@ocaudiophile thank you for the reply. I am not really understand about the main mic position (first measurement mic position). Shall it in the middle between two rows? To get everyone pretty much equal time delay dan volume level? Thanks.
@@1psxpat I'd choose the location that I sit but you can of course choose the central point between rows. That location will sound the better than all others.
@@ocaudiophile thank you
nice, but we have a lot of conntend like that. PLEASE to a video like that for the PC Software.
What PC software are we talking about?
MultEQ-X please :)
Hey OCA, I would like to ask if the „merge b to a“ method to determine the crossover for each pair of loudspeakers is still valid or if you have a newer tip than the method you used in the A R T video (finding intersection points for each loudspeaker which then is entered into the excel file)? I ask because when I use this method (vector average -> merge b to a), set the crossover accordingly (in my case 110 hz) and remeasure, the bass went up from approximately 70 hz to 100 hz showing a huge suckout at the 110 hz crossover point. Any useful tip on this one? Thanks Sir.
I believe, the very best crossover frequency is the frequency your speakers' spec -3/-6dB roll off frequency. This is usually given in the speaker manual. There's no way to phase align speakers and the sub with Audyssey (time alignment is not exactly the same thing) so it's a bit of a hit and miss really. If you want to go through the burden, measure your speaker pair with each possible crossover over frequency when Audyssey is on with REW and pick the flattest response.
@@ocaudiophile, thanks Sir. With Java Excel one can measure LR but cannot with the other speaker pairs, would then measure each speaker with the different crossovers and then vector average the pairs provide the requested solution and is the merge b to a tool still useful? My fronts go down to 26 hz (Nubert Nuvero 140), Center goes down to 36, Surrounds to 36 as well and Atmos speakers 113 hz. So fronts will be fullrange, Center and surrounds 40 (probably 60), atmos 110? Wouldnt that be too many bass sources in the room as I have a huge null in the right front speakers response due to floor or table reflection (I think). What is your opinion on that? If you are interested I can provide my REW file (already corrected speakers) via google drive so that you can have a look, what do you think?
You are right about too many bass sources to manage especially with Audyssey's limited adjustments. I choose to select 40Hz XO for my full range speakers for that reason just to leave bass management to subs. There's really not much you can do for the dips after carefully time aligning subs and speakers. I could have a look but when it comes to crossover frequency selection there's nothing I can do better by looking at measurements. You may try measuring speakers+sub at 40Hz crossovers when sub has customtargetcurve loaded and the speakers are not and regenerate customcurvepoints for speakers. @@saschawehde8072
Awesome! Do you recommend investing $80 for calibrated UMIK-1 microphone for setup or ok to use the mic that comes with Audyssey (I just purchased Denon x4800h receiver that have Audyssey multiq 32x with mic)?
Congrats on your purchase, that receiver has the same processor inside as the top models and is made in Japan.
You can use the Audyssey mic that came with the receiver but make sure you use the calibration file with it while measuring speakers in REW. You can find the the link to the calibration file of these mics in this video:
ua-cam.com/video/KIozAzQH3CM/v-deo.html
@@ocaudiophile Hey OCA, no Calibration of my soundcard necessary?
@@leo180811 No, you can even use Audysssey mic with REW to measure your speakers. The tutorial should be showing how. If not that one, definteley the earlier ones on manual tuning.
Hi OCA -Thanks for all your videos, but this one I can't wait to get started on!
2 questions that might be very stupid so please forgive me
I have the Marantz SR-6012 - it does have the Audyssey app but I just can't get the web interface to work. I get Error 403 - Forbidden/Access forbidden.
1) should I have the option use the web interface at all?
If not I might just have to use setup via the remote control - will work but takes much longer
2) but when I access the setup from the remote control - under audio/surround parameter I don't have "low frequency effects" at all
Will that give me problems?
Kind regards
I had 6011 and now have 6014 and both have Web access, maybe network control is off in your receiver menu setup.
Certain setup parameters only come out when there's an audio signal being fed. Play an atmos track and try reaching that setup menu item.
Hey OCA, how have you been? I've noticed that A over B magnitude division is overcorrecting on the EQs I'm doing. Do you have any idea why? I've seen that treble sometimes needs an increase of 1.5db, but the A over B is increasing by more. Like 2db. What could be causing higher numbers than needed? Is it also taking into account reflections in the sweep? Can I remove that? Or just measure with an RTA?
I guess these deviations are caused by the complicated maths behind the division operation between two FFT's especially when it's not over a flat line but a target curve. The beginning and the end needs some mathematical gizmo to be handled. I use direct 1/A inversion lately over a flat line for that very reason.
Regarding the "Speed of sound" value setting/correction. What is your reference when determining whether your AVR is using 300 or 343 m/s? Do you measure it with a tape/ laser, or do you measure with both Audyssey mic and Umik at the same position and compare?
It's caused by the AVR so it's mic independent. I measure with laser just one of my speakers and compare with Audyysry's own finding. The difference is usually too large and even with tape measure you would understand your receiver is using 300m/s. Btw, after a recent update my Marantz sr6015 now uses 343m/s. Many other models have been fixed but not all.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks! My Denon X4500H also received a couple of updates over summer, fingers crossed.
Hello, could you please tell me the order of videos i should follow. For example, do i first do the sub alignment qnd house curve before doing the steps in this video? Or do this then align the subs?
Align the subs first and treat them as one and correct their summed response.
Hey, thanks a lot for this excellent tutorial! With this I got a very nice calibration for my setup. These changes are applied to all HDMI inputs of the receiver, which is great. However they are not applied correctly to the ARC audio coming back from my TV. Every audio signal coming via ARC from the TV sounds noticable different/worse. I am using a Denon X3400H. Does anybody else have this problem and maybe a solution?
Sometimes you need set some Audyssey settings separetly for each input.
Thanks for your answer. That's a good idea. I will measure all inputs to see what the actual difference looks like and then probably create separate profiles and switch them via the audyssey app.
All the best to you!
Hello OCA. After - Pinpointing crossover frequencies for each speaker... I get following error - Error: Speaker has no bass response according to your measurement file. Please check! - program execution has stopped! Please let me know what I might be doing wrong.
Check your original ady file for absurd trim adjustment settings for subwoofer unless you've open baffle speakers with limited bass response.
Thanks again for your work! Really enjoy how my system is sounding now on my Denon x4400.
If I upgrade to an x6700, can I just import my saved profile from my old x4400 to the new x6700? Or do I re-do calibration to the new receiver?
You can manually edit the ady files side by side and copy/paste objects in json online editor but 6700 is a different beast and probably has different crossover rolloffs etc. I'd re-do the measurememts.
Oca for subwoofer crossover how we know where we have to cut our subs i mean in 120 hz or 150 or 200 -250 and also how we know if we need to apply lfe + main or only lfe... Please explain me thank you
That can only be done using exhaustive search algorithms, not possible manually (unless you want to try alignment tool for all possible frequencies). Try Nexus, that will do it all for you.
@ocaudiophile yeah but nexus dont make full calibration of the speakers right??
@kuriakos36 You don't need that and it can extend up to 1000hz if you customize the script.
Hey mate! Sorry, i have another question.
Im following this guide to a T, using MultiEQ.
Ive noticed that, Im getting a 10db difference in the LFE channel when using the REW sweep vs. The sweep you provide (this sweep is 10db hotter). I verified that I have Low Frequency Effects set to -10 in the AVR. I also verified that this only occurs with the LFE channel (the other sweeps match perfectly.) When I move the LFE effect back to 0, the LFE sweep from REW matches the provided sweep at -10 perfectly as well.
Any ideas? And if i cant figure it out, which one would you recommend i use? I have peaks with the provided sweep oved 90db. When using the REW sweep I have peaks over 80. If I move the LFE Effects back to 0, the provided sweep is hitting over 100db.😊
Thanks!
ALways use REW's LFE sweep because Atmos LFE sweep has a low pass filter and introduces extra delays due to that. If you download the latest early access version of REW, there're now measurement settings specific to LFE channel so you don't have to tamper with receiver LFE volume settings.
@Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile Awesome! Thanks!
@Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile hey - I tried using the -10lfe option in REW. I then set up LFE Effects back to 0. The results between selecting the -10db REW LFE option, and not, are nearly exactly the same. There is a slight 3db boost at about 80hz when not using the -10db option in REW, but it doesn't appear to be reducing the LFE channel by 10db. I'm wondering if it's a bug? I'm using ASIO and channel 4.
Just wondering if I should stick with the AVR option if the results in REW do not appear to change much when using the new LFE option.
@@thecrlghs The volume depends on the frequency range measured. If you measure LFE from 0hz to 24000hz like other speakers, the volume will not be boosted. If you measure 0hz-200hz for example, receiver will think it's an LFE signal and will boost it. Whether you use REW or dim it in the reciever or simply measure everything 0-24000 without chnaging any volume setting is up to you. They are the same thing.
Ahh. I think I follow! 😂
Hello buddy ... i have a problem with rew... why i cant produce sound from surounds?? I only produce from left and right ... and i have it to asio... theres something i can do???
Try VLC player and change receiver's sound mode to movie
@@ocaudiophile no no no im trying to make calibration with rew and i cant produce sound from surounds... what you mean with vlc???
Also you believe if i try external the samples from your file to work and not from rew .. or no?
@kuriakos36 VLC player download it
Did you delete a video (similar to this one) you previously had on your channel? I remember you sharing a file to input in json editor specifically for 80hz (you also had one for 120hz). That procedure worked great for me. I moved my seating & was hoping to use that video as a reference again but can't find it. I've tried this video, but every time I try to import the "dummy" ady file (after using the json editor) into MultEQ, it states that the file is corrupt.
ua-cam.com/video/QWFyIDTe1fw/v-deo.html
@ocaudiophile Thank you for the response back. The link you gave sent me to a video with a private setting. So I can't view it.
Video related material:
Harman target curve:
drive.google.com/file/d/1N9C7...
Online MultEQ measurement file (.ady) editor:
jsoneditoronline.org/
Harman target curve for 120 Hz crossover (as created in the video) to directly paste into json:
[
"{20, 6.382}",
"{25, 6.592}",
"{31.5, 6.892}",
"{40, 7.152}",
"{50, 7.393}",
"{63, 7.557}",
"{80, 7.153}",
"{100, 6.13}",
"{125, 4.625}",
"{160, 3.032}",
"{200, 1.946}",
"{250, 1.19}",
"{315, 0.611}",
"{400, 0.267}",
"{500, -0.137}",
"{630, -0.327}",
"{800, -0.554}",
"{1000, -0.774}",
"{1250, -0.942}",
"{1600, -1.197}",
"{2000, -1.359}",
"{2500, -1.501}",
"{3150, -1.658}",
"{4000, -1.813}",
"{5000, -1.911}",
"{6300, -1.966}",
"{8000, -1.905}",
"{10000, -1.64}",
"{12500, -0.962}",
"{16000, 1.071}",
"{20000, 8.299}"
]
Harman target curve for 80 Hz crossover to use with MultEQ Editor app:
[
"{20, 6.657}",
"{25, 6.999}",
"{31.5, 7.482}",
"{40, 7.965}",
"{50, 8.378}",
"{63, 8.538}",
"{80, 7.752}",
"{100, 6.065}",
"{125, 3.931}",
"{160, 2.025}",
"{200, 0.984}",
"{250, 0.415}",
"{315, 0.049}",
"{400, -0.113}",
"{500, -0.392}",
"{630, -0.493}",
"{800, -0.659}",
"{1000, -0.842}",
"{1250, -0.985}",
"{1600, -1.224}",
"{2000, -1.376}",
"{2500, -1.512}",
"{3150, -1.665}",
"{4000, -1.817}",
"{5000, -1.914}",
"{6300, -1.968}",
"{8000, -1.906}",
"{10000, -1.64}",
"{12500, -0.962}",
"{16000, 1.071}",
"{20000, 8.299}"
]
@@doublet147
@@ocaudiophile Thank you!
Starting down the path and already have a question. JSON is new to me. I was cutting and pasting and something happened in the editor that collapsed the tree view to one location. The editor just shows an error with 16384 items. How do I go back to see the full tree and continue my work??
Fixed by switching to text mode then back to tree. Uploaded the new audy file to the file (had to change extension from json to audy) but the measurements aren't .4 and the levels are 0 like you show. Whats up??
Just click "New" in the top left menu and drop the .ady file in it again. It will be refreshed. Also check your MS Office regional settings. Some Excel versions can replace , and ; which might be causing the error.
@@ocaudiophile Appreciate that, sir. New to REW and looking forward to getting things dialed in and learning along the way. Already subscribed and appreciate the content!
Can this method be used with multiple subwoofers?
Yes, see "Immersive audio" video.
Just an idea. Create the PEQ in REW, import in Rephase, export impulse response of the filters back in REW, create division of the imported filter versus a flat impulse. This would get the FIR filters from the PEQ. Just tested and seems to be working very well. You can also further PEQ the result and apply another bank of filter correction in Rephase for even further refinment of the initial response. Do you see any issues with this approach?
It should work but with one inversion in REW, you already create the required PEQ settings as custom curve edit points for Audyssey. Besides in general leess is more in digital correction . Too much eq especially in high frequencies will cause boxy sound. Try the method in Audyssey for Dolby Atmos music video where there's less correction and you might prefer that one for movies as well.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you! I will. I learned so much from your videos. I looked at one of my first measurements after Audyssey automatic calibration and it's night and day versus what I got following your methods!
@@horatiud.5976 Good to hear that.
I tried downloading the multeq base measurements to ny pc and turning them into the 0 measurement base file, but no matter whether i try to upload the original or the modified curve, multeq will not accept the file and gives an error with "not right curve file". What can i do, i checked file ending, removed returns in the json editor, copied to windows editor, etc, it will not accept the ady uploaded back to my phone. Any ideas?
It seems to work when I use Google drive directly. Don't know what I was doing wrong, but as long as one way works...
Why don't you try the automated scripts in Audyssey ART video links
Yeah, I found those and they are highly practical. But nevertheless they, too, didn't work until I accessed them from Google drive. Looking forward to proceed the next few days.
I plan on aligning the 2 subs as per your multiple sub video first and then I believe I have to Eq them together, right? Merry Christmas.
Im lost in the first five minutes. Perhaps this is for the advanced users. Looks amazing though, wish i had the patience to do this. 🎉🎉
I am stuck at the ASIO4ALL mic driver issue beyond logic (red exclamation). Trying to resolve the past 2 days. Any help regarding this ??
Can I use the JAVA driver instead ??
Yes but use Java EXCLusive drivers. They are as good as ASIO drivers and can do multichannel.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks for the prompt response 🙏
Does Maestro MJ do all of Supreme Audyssey Calibration settings already?
Yes
I have never seen a better approach to improving the response from our audio components: thank you for sharing this with us.
There are multiple references in the comments to your website. Would you share your website url with us, please?
Thank you. I don't have a website?
I know about your UA-cam channel: it is very informative.
Do you also have a website that contains additional information?
No but I answer all questions here in comments.
Hey OCA, trust you are well. Got a question on the „determine crossover frequencies“ part of your video. I own 2 pairs of atmos upfiring speakers and I am wondering how to find the correct crossover. Should I vector average TFL and TFR and then trace arr. (merge A to B) with the vector of FL and FR or with the sub? As far as I experienced the atmos effect is better when using a high crossover (e.g. 180). I read somewhere that some bass management systems route in a 2 step way. E.g. Front Height speakers signals below crossover 180 being routed to fronts which are crossed over at 110 hz from there to the subwoofer as usual. What do you think, thanks Sir?
Normally, they should been crossed over with the sub and the method you explained shluld work well. I haven't heard an information on two step crossover for height speakers. What receiver are you using?
Thanks. I use a Marantz 7706 processor. Have read somewhere about the 2 step crossover in an older interview with Andrew Jones since he was working with Pioneer. Besides that I found out measuring the heights as „large“ it’s bass response is kinda same than the front/rear speaker it sits on (measured as large as well -> only looking at the bass region below 200 hz or so). This tells me that the processor is allegedly doing some internal crossover to avoid overdriving the height speakers. When measureing the heights crossed over there is surprisingly no big difference between the frequency responses comparing 200/180/150, weird. As there is no big difference between 120 and 150hz I chose 150 hoping that supports the bouncy effect better.
Makes sense. But if your upfiring speakers are separable, I would suggest trying to hang them up in the front wall and use them as front height speakers. The reflection atmos effect is will always be compromised relatively.
Thanks, this yoúll need to tell my better half 😂, I guess I need to live with that relatively good result. Thanks for your support and that great stuff.
Thanks for that great tutorial. In a previous video you also used parametric eq filters (for yamaha), but i am using multeqx on my denon. Can i also use paraeqs with this tutorial and do i meed the hassle with python and excel, when i can use multeqx?
Denon does not have parametric EQ, it has only a graphic eq with fixed frequency bands but of course you can use that insetad of Audyssey. I have one preset with Audyssey and one preset with GEQ in my Marantz set up.
@@ocaudiophile thanks for the answer. Since multeqx support the usage of parametrics eq i will try my luck. You can also apply them without measuring your speaker wirh audyssey, thats what i want to try with rew then according to yout videos.
Buddy if i dont want to have dynamic eq on and put a really house curve what i have to do???
Use Audyssey's own measurements then. The technique is explained in Audyssey ART video.
@@ocaudiophile thank you that im gonna try😇
@@ocaudiophile but can i ask you why you dont give a house curve with dynamic eq off buddy and you have to do all this process???
Check equal loudness contours!@@kuriakos36
I am having an issue where my front left and right mains have a huge null at 120hz when doing the vector average. REW says at ~123hz the phases of L and R are off by 180 degrees. Any ideas?
180 deg difference between phases of left and right speakers is indeed the reason for the drop in VA and it will be audible (or rather inaudible) when both speakers play that frequency, too. Probably different SBIR effects due to asymmetric speaker placement. Check for 70/140cm extra distance travelled from a speaker to LP reflected from surrounding walls that the other speaker doesn't have. Either move the speakers /LP elsewhere or direct 123Hz and below to the subwoofer with a high crossover.
@@ocaudiophile bumping up the xo is one of the things I tried. You are right, my living room has no wall to the left, so the speaker setup is asymmetrical. I also have 2 subs of differing sizes, both on the right side, in opposing corners (Front Right & Rear Right). It's the position where I get the smoothest blending - with the caveat that there is a null right at, you guessed it, 120hz lol.
For trying out combinations in REW, I measured each speaker as large and I also measured the subs using the LFE channel with my LPF for LFE set to 250hz so I could get the maximum range. Here is the link to that .mdat file: drive.google.com/file/d/1Yt9Ml_EA3Op8J8suJxTuAHYPex8VvzCT/view?usp=sharing
Adjust FL -0.5dB, FR +0.5dB, SW -1dB. EQ 1/48 smoothed versions of all from 20Hz to 200Hz with 5dB boost for a Dr Toole curve with target level at 52.62dB. Export all 3 filters to the ady and cross over the mains (FL & FR) with your sub @150Hz. That seems to be the only way you can fix taht huge hole around 120Hz without moving speakers or using heavy passive absorption.
I have done the process twice on my SR6015. The second time after calibrating Subs with Mini DSP and treating the Room with some Absorption/Diffusion. However this time my Polk RTi A7 sound very bright? Since the Audyssey App Room Correction Results and Curve Editor graphs are kind of unique after calibrating, I am not sure If I could/should edit them to reduce the brightness. Any recommendations on how to adjust the sound of the Mid Brilliance frequencies w/o going through the trace arithmetic speaker correction process?
You can change dynamic EQ strength form 0 to 5, 10 or 15. Turning "Cinema EQ" on will also dim the HF a bit.
Omg an all in one Audyssey cal tuto
You should Switch the “Network Control” setting to “Always On" in the receiver menu. You can leave the sound profile at stereo, it will change automatically.
@@ocaudiophile Thanks :) Network Control was already ON but I saw on forums that Web Control for SR7012 is no longer available (only for SR7015), I have to rollback the FW, but no idea how to hack the AVR FW for this
So for stereo I leave Movie Stereo or Pure Stereo ?
@@Mitholman73 I don't change this setting at all, it automatically switches depending on the incoming signal. Stay away from pure direct modes as they bypass the subwoofer and Audyssey settings.