Immense respect for deliberately bringing on guests like Milo and Menno to discuss evidence that directly undercuts RPs practice. Even more respect for modifying your thinking with the research.
Was thinking about that, like the 1-2 second pause at the bottom of a squat or a pressing movement. But the guest did mention he's not considering hypertrophy only, as far as I understood.
how tf did what they say undercut rp? He said pretty much what they always do. Fast concentric, slow eccentric, pauses don't rly matter, probably don't do it at the top
I guess the secret is to only the control the ecentric to the point where it feels challanging to control if that makes sense. Anything slower than that dosen't add anymore challange.
I found the answer by Menno and response to the answer by Mike not satisfactory. It evens out obviously in terms of getting to failure either way, but if you pause and squeeze at the stretched position then relatively more of the fatigue is spent in the lengthened more stimulating range, rather than being evenly distributed over the ROM.
@@joddden Sounds logical, but if at the moment the research doesn't suggest that they will not say so. Don't know if that is the case, just a possible reasoning.
Huge respect to Dr. Mike for bringing guests on that directly challenge Dr. Mike's ideas on training and the fact that he keep his usual self in check and just lets Menno speak!
@@lazydictionary yeah they literally have the same approach just with tiny differences in the amount of slowness in the eccentric and the pause at the bottom
They are not so different, just complementary. Very slow negatives might not generate more hypertrophy but its a very good way to make your workout harder and shorter by achieving failure faster, with less reps and more weight. In the end we know building muscle is about taking it to failure under contraction, the variables of doing involved in doing is what changes, not the main formula.
Dr Mike I really want to applaud you for being a true scientist. It seems of the newer studies don't fully support what's always pushed here on this chanel, mainly pausing (I slow eccentric and love it - won't change). Still you accepted the research and shared it with everyone. Having been subbed to you for a long time, I'm sure you'll post some videos about the newer studies to update everyone on the latest knowledge. Thanks for being a credible source of information.
@@Schacal6666Nothing was contradicted, but ideas were definitely challenged. Slow eccentrics and pauses at the bottom are not necessary for muscle growth. However, they can help people avoid injuries.
Given adaptions are the same, but slower eccentric + pause lowers risk of injury, slow eccentric + pause is preferred. Sooner or later, if you’re really pushing yourself, you’ll get injuries, and they don’t heal perfectly (scar tissue etc).
This video and guest seems to go TOTALLY AGAINST the proven results of ISOMETRIC (STATIC HOLDS with plent of time under tension) and SUPER SLOW training (20-30sec concentric with 30-40 sec eccentric) and the famous High Intensity Training that also goes pretty slow with only one set of about 10 seconds concentric and 10 sec eccentric. Therefore with ISOMETRIC, SUPER SLOW and HIT all provide great results with much less overall time in the gym! Reply
The sit-downs you've done with Milo and Menno are some of my favorite videos. Love hearing Dr. Mike have reasonable, educational discussions with other experts that have slightly opposing views.
Also that tempo makes you psychologically feel in control and this promotes confidence. Something that majority of us need, a sense of self confidence.
One thing I became more aware of, is that I really don’t care about how much weight I’m lifting. Strong is fun, but injury prevention and a 100% focus on hypertrophy, even at the expense of strength adaptations are currently way more fun! I know, preferences may change, but I’ve always followed the “philosophy” menno presented here (majority hypertrophy, but also strength), but the RP approach of unapologetically going for 100% hypertrophy is so much fun, and it’s a nice benefit that it reduces injury risks
Not only does it reduce injuries but I believe it rehabilitates past injuries. My shoulders have never felt better lifting than they do following the RPapp. The slow eccentric and pause increases the mind muscle connection and makes me very aware of any pain or tightness. I often stretch or lengthen the muscle between lifts now and don’t just jerk out reps to meet my rep goal. I am aware of any pain and can lift around the specific injury to strengthen all of the stabilizer muscles.
@@Jim-sn7hw that’s great to hear, I hope you can continue to workout around and prevent and even “cure” some of your injuries. I 100% agree that the benefit the slow eccentric gives in regards to feel is insane. While it may be, that mind muscle connection per se, is not a requirement for hypertrophy, its indirect benefit of allowing me to target, a specific muscle or muscle group, much more precisely gives me pumps and soreness like I have never seen and felt ever before in my many years of lifting, - similar to what you described regarding the superior control and targeting! Wish you all the best, and massive gains!
Doing strength+power and hypertrophy is fun in your twenties, but in your forties and beyond, injury prevention is paramount. A weight you can do 15-25 reps. No sudden forces (i.e. acceleration). Prehab of shoulder. Etc
For me best episode so far. Because you both seem to see things almost the same but explain it differently, thus people can truly understand what is important and what you mean. This really brought alot of insight about stuff I was having questions about and also confirmed my own thoughts about this.
This channel is fitness on platinum level. So many guys are afraid to say anything even slightly contrary to what they have said before. Dr. Mike is just out here searching for the truth. That is real science. Super thankful.
Personally, on most lifts, I do around 1.5 to 2 seconds lowering phase then a split second pause to remove the bounce and momentum and then explode on the way up then a split second pause. This makes the exercises much harder and you are forced to lower the weight quite a few.
@@Junglebtc Facts. I try to make every rep a 5-count rep. Up one, down 4, maybe a natural 1- or 2-second pause at the bottom while getting the stretch.
Thanks Dr. Mike, i had a girl that i help train and that uses your app ask why sometimes Jared does the reps a bit faster the than i tell her to do. This video has cleared that up and i understand fully now. Keep up the good work and totally interesting and relevant content - you guys are the beast (best) >>> (Jonny Willis, New Zealand)
I’ve been doing the RP app training and I slow down the eccentric to about a 4-5 count. Lighter weight so less wear and tear in joints and the GNARLIEST pumps I’ve ever gotten.
@@lazydictionaryIt does at first observation. People can easily get lost in translation when you hear go left or go right it's easy to understand since they are different but they go to the same goal but still different since this video changed my perspective of things as well. Now I'm gonna focus less on milking the eccentric and more on explosive concentric when I know I got my form correctly since back then I've been focusing on the eccentric too often but with this video my understanding of it is now broader so I'm thankful but that doesn't mean Mike was wrong coz the eccentric thing did keep me safe ABIT since if he focused on the concentric I'd be riddled with injuries now coz you can easily get injured exploding the the concentric if you just willy nilly do it since you need alot of control to do it right so you need to really steel yourself with the concentric unlike bro reps since bro reps you have less control but more explosive movement and the difference is you DO NOT let go of the control and flex while going for an explosive concentric.
Jeff Nippard showed a study where you get more muscle activation by attempting to do the concentric as fast as possible, being explosive, even if you cannot move the weight fast, the act of mentally attempting to be explosive causes more activation
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:58 💡 *Training tempo consists of eccentric speed, pause length, concentric speed, and stability at the top, with controlled movement yielding similar adaptations regardless of tempo.* 03:17 🏋️ *Explosive concentric movements enhance performance and strength gains, potentially benefiting long-term muscle growth, especially when training for strength.* 04:42 🛑 *Limitations of pausing during lifts include turning sets into cluster sets, potentially reducing tension, and increasing stress on connective tissue, making it less ideal for hypertrophy.* 07:02 🧠 *Slower eccentrics can serve as a coaching tool for improving technique, emphasizing control, and targeting specific muscles, beneficial for injury prevention and variation in training.* 10:15 💡 *Emphasizing slow eccentrics may improve the stimulus-to-fatigue ratio for muscle growth, potentially reducing injury risk, and has a track record in physiotherapy for rehabilitation.* 14:40 🤔 *Body dysmorphia is common in fitness, with individuals often comparing themselves unfavorably on social media, but clinical body dysmorphia is relatively rare in bodybuilding.* 16:00 🍽️ *Opting for familiar, everyday foods underscores the importance of consistency and practicality in nutrition, promoting macro-pragmatism for meeting dietary needs effectively.* Made with HARPA AI
Makes total sense - fast or slow, doesn’t matter so long as you reach the same fatigue end point I’ll continue doing lower weights with slower controlled to help my joints / neck have the best shot of staying healed
This! I've been going close to failure/to failure with lower weights ever since I got 2x herniated discs off deadlifts, and I've still been having fun in the gym, getting decent results.
Don't be a pussy bra, stack on the weight & toss it around all willy-nilly like. What if someone's watching you?? Lift as hard & fast as you can, just in case someone's watching you...if you get injured, then you know you were doing it right. I'm stupid.
@@ditz3nfitness I've seen too many walking/limping wounded in the gym, or friends who have totally screwed themselves by going too heavy too long. Made me realize lower weight/higher reps was a better option to minimize damage, working well for me.
There is such a thing as too fast. I see guys just using gravity on the eccentric and using the tight tissue bounce to get 1/3 to 1/2 of the concentric. Total shit form destined for injury.
FSSD: FOCUS. STRICTER. SLOWER. DEEPER. Always hear Dr. Mike’s husky voice in my ear during hypertrophy work. Gruesome and encouraging at the same time.
As a non-practicing exercise scientist your channel has rekindled my interest in how the body works before, during and after exercise. Your presentation style is beyond reproach. I only wish my professors were as dynamic and off color as you. Thank you Dr Mike for what you do.
I really appreciate the data-driven guidance I get from your channel. Subscribed. Keep up the good work. I'm in my 50's and it seems that slower eccentric allows me to reach the same fatigue/hypertrophy endpoint with less overall reps and less joint irritation.
A terrific discussion! My takeaways: 1. Confirms that minor variations in lifting techniques as detailed by Dr. Mike and Menno Henselmans will yield similar to identical benefits in hypertrophy and strength. 2. Confirms that Dr. Mike’s philosophy that a slow, roughly four second eccentric, with a pause at the bottom leads to improved technique which in turn helps ensure that the target muscle(s) are properly worked for optimal hypertrophy. 3. Slow eccentric reduces the likelihood of injury which over the long term leads to improved hypertrophy and strength gains. If you’re not injured your gaining! Great stuff Dr. Mike and Menno!
I love this format. Great video, the back and forth with another expert just makes so many things clearer. Getting more than just one viewpoint is worth a lot.
The great thing about weight training…you can try different approaches on yourself, and just stick with whatever seems to be working. I’ve come to understand, the pause at the bottom is really just there to eliminate momentum. So if you are doing curls, you aren’t just heaving with your back, but calling for the biceps. If you have a good mind muscle connection. You might not need to do it.
This is so great to watch. Im 50. Ive been training slow and controlled to keep injury free but I have noticed that my muscle gains have been huge as well. I feel the pumps more and I dont get hurt and i feel more flexible and athletic now when I do martial arts. All that and actually getting bigger. Its been amazing...
@@ryanleal1764 which kinda makes sense, we know static isometric exercises don't give you much gains in general. I do agree it helps eliminate that bounce and encourages good technique. so limiting that hold at the bottom to like half a second would probably work just as well
@@ryanleal1764 Pausing at the bottom still has a place just like they said here. Rehab, "prehab, and learning the form because it helps with mind-muscle connection. I've been using it for squats to rehab my quad tendons.
Yeah, people hear something isn't better at hypertrophy or strength or some other quality, here we are talking about hypertrophy, and their takeaway is it's bad or something, doesn't have other good qualities like you listed and same or similar results for hypertrophy but also other benefits, like you mentioned, that doesn't register with them. I'd also mention the advantage of getting more out of less weight not just for your reasons but as someone with limited equipment, limited weights, that's a consideration for me. That's a reason some might chose to do slower repetitions, up to a point and higher repetitions, up to a point, not because it works better but because it works better with lower weights if still in the hypertrophy rep range and speeds still associated with hypertrophy in the literature.
Since watching this channel, and dropping weights, slowing down movements, pausing at the bottom I have enjoyed my workouts much more. The slowdown really allows for better mind muscle connection and quality of movement. Meanwhile, I am way more sore after training than when I was lifting heavier and lifting for power. So thanks to Dr. Mike.
This channel is far and away the best in its category simply because Mike and his guests usually get to the point very quickly, following-up with more detail, opposed to vice versa. It makes the content more engaging and easier to process.
This entire video can be summed up into three sentences (7:20): Dr. Mike: “But who cares how many reps I do if I get to the same failure endpoint and have higher quality reps?“ Guest: “So it seems to even out.” Dr. Mike: “Ok, cool.” Simply put, slower reps force you to lift moderate weight and yields more of a controlled movement which in return reduces the likelihood of injury. As long as the muscle is fatigued enough (tine under tension) and more motor units recruited… the stimulus for growth will be produced.
I appreciate the nod to the difference between hypertrophy and sports performance. I learn more about lifting mainly for sports performance but it's so hard to find information for sports that aren't barbell sports or football.
Ive been focusing on the stretch under load, and slow eccentric with a pause with less weight and less rest in between sets. So far, i dont get as sore or deal with shoulder pain. I just hope ill get good growth. Ive always lifted as heavy as i can with fast reps. It made me sorer, stronger, but not incredibly bigger.
To summary, factors such as slow eccentrics and deep stretches seems to even out as long as you are reaching near or to failure in a optimally (not overly) controlled repetition.
9:35 This is my tactic. Do strength training, reach a nice strength threshold, then pump out hypertrophy at that range. Then a few weeks or months later, do strength training again to reach a higher strength peak, then pump out that hypertrophy again. Rinse and repeat until gorilla.
Greek yogurt, unflavored whey powder, vanilla, and a tiny bit of heavy cream can make a very high protein food which, with a little effort, one can pretend tastes like ice cream. (Works better if you haven't eaten fructose/sucrose in at least six months.)
My go-to protein pudding - 200g greek yoghurt, 15g peanut butter, 20g honey, 1 scoop chocolate whey protein. Comes out pretty close to no-bake cheesecake.
If you don’t mind sugars, I use 400g fage Greek yogurt (I’m Greek, that brand is the only one straining the yogurt enough to actually make it legit greek yogurt). I add 30g breitsmeir forest honey and 30g raw walnuts. I do the chocolate protein powder as well. 400g fage greek yogurt, I scoop protein. If you can, add a few hundred grams of fresh strawberry and/or pineapple. You could add almond butter to this too. Such a versatile, easy to eat high protein food. I eat it almost everyday.
i keep my protein powder for shakes only...its a taste/texture thing. I mix a bit of mango keifer with plain greek, max protein, minimum sugar, some extra help on the gut health..usually my first thing i eat or last thing before bed with vitamins
I like Oikos protein greek yogurt. They make a Key Lime flavour in Canada. I'll add a scoop of protein and some strawberries or blueberries. Good stuff.
Nice to see DrM and Jeff in my latest issue of Men’s Health… imagine my delight!! Preaching that SLOOOOWWW STRRREEEEEEEEEEEETCH and looking damn handsome doing it!
There was a TV serie in the Netherlands about 2 brothers who run a business in funerals ceremonies. One episode goes about a bodybuilder funeral. The family and friend did everything to make the corpse looks at the best, they even manage to use a kind of pump device to inject the muscles with air ......
Bottom line is no one really knows what they are talking about so just eat protein do 3 to 4 sets of 12 reps 5 times a week rest 2 days and start over ! Thats how i grew my 21's i followed just those things i mentioned! No roids just time ! They are always changing and saying do this do that it's just humorous at this point just do old school training. Time folks time nothing is 123 .
My thoughts exactly. I pay attention to what my body reacts to and be dynamic with my workouts. The goal is to get a pump with good techinque. You dont get a pump with reps under 5 or 10... you gets pump between 15 and 50...
It would be great if in convos like this, to visually show us like one example of what you guys mean. For us newbies who are getting into weightlifting. I'm trying to wrap my head around on how to perform how you're explaining it.
Sometimes i watch these science videos and think to myself: man im not mr Olympia, just lift properly lift heavy and eat right, do a little cardio and ill be good why do i need to change everything in my plan and routine thatll cause me to have a few percentage points higher gains. Basics still work and apply right?
I love slow reps, with pause under streach. An the last rep i prefer to do longer pause, an grind my way out. This has helpd me a tone to avoid injuries.
Or how about when you just kind of hold that last rep of that last set, maybe inching it down a little before pulling it back, basically holding onto it until you twitch and damn near start laughing? Those are that "extra" type of rep Arnold wrote about, without all the stuff about it making you feel as though you've had an orgasm, of course. 🤣
@@ajnegro2052 I go with both arms on the pulldowns, but I make sure to use the short handles rather than the bar. That way I can go down farther and deeper bc my head isn't in the way, allowing my hands to be more parallel (but not quite) with my head. Then, on that last rep of the last set, I hold it for a long time. Then I inch up slowly about 8", then maybe back down to 90 degrees, then inch up again, sort of climbing up and down a ladder, slowly, teasing out the rep. Then when extended almost all the way up, I'll bring it all the way back down for a final full rep and slowly let it back up. Another thing I've found invaluable with that movement is to NEVER wrap my thumb around the handle/bar, making the closed grip most people do. Just make sort of a claw out of your remaining 4 fingers gripping over the top of the handle/bar. I have found that it makes the movement hit my lats considerably more, and that's what we're there for. When you wrap that thumb, you're enlisting your forearms. And, let's be honest, if you're lifting often enough, you don't really need to do forearm work unless it's really a thing for you or your genetics just won't allow for much incidental growth. That said, the forearm burn you get from farmer's walks around the gym is delightful. BTW, opening the grip works on other movements as well. I've also found that if I just have my hands flat, palms up, and move the handles on the flye machine with the insides of my hands, it can greatly increase the "cone of tension" of that movement. I feel the pull much earlier and with my arms much further apart - producing a longer period of tension - than the normal, vertical gripping of those handles. As you sit there now, try it and the normal way while the other hand feels where your pec meets the shoulder. That's at least a 20-degree difference, and 2X ... Take care.
Great video and loved the very science driven approach, please bring on more guests Menno! I got the gist straight away but I found this video quite advanced (perceiving myself as intermediate) and I would have loooved some further explanations/images/videos etc to really drive home the points of what you both were saying.
I’ve been training for 10 years and have tried just about every style of training and style of the way you do your reps. I’ve gotten my best growth and my most gnarliest pumps doing Dr Mikes style of training. Not only that but my joints and tendons don’t ache and hurt like they used to and they have gotten stronger. And yes, I have worked up to using the same amount of weight that I used to.
@@jpryan90 I’ve lifted heavy for years. Competitive powerlifting and strongman. A year ago a switched up to Dr Mike’s type training. Reps went from 6 to 10-20. Absolutely blew up to the point my wife says I’m too big. She’s even a bit annoyed all the shirts she’s ever bought me just hang in the closet no longer fitting. Totally humbled that after decades still learning new things in weight training
Menno is the best guest. I actually have the reverse body dysmorphia, I look in the mirror and be like damn I'm ugly, I look away and I'm vibing feeling like a sicko. That completely irrational body confidence, it's certainly a better way to be than the negative type 🤷♂️
Intentionally slow eccentrics aren't going to hurt hypertrophy, but in some movements they're almost certainly hurting performance outside of the weight room. A good example is squats - if you're doing exaggeratedly long eccentrics with a pause at the bottom, you're weakening the stretch response and this is going to affect your jumping ability in sports like basketball. If you don't care about that bc you're all about hypertrophy, cool, have at it. And this is all weighed against the injury risk which, again, varies by movement. Do I think there's a substantial difference in injury risk between doing a long, slow eccentric squat with a pause at the bottom vs a simply *controlled* eccentric with no pause? Nah, not really, but make that call for yourself. For other movements, especially those involving the elbows, I think there definitely can be an injury-reduction benefit to slower eccentrics and less concern about performance impacts.
It touches on why real track athletes minimize actual stretching in favor of simply warming up. They need those elastic bands in their legs to snap back while competing. That doesn't happen if you've stretched them all out and loosened them up. That said, since almost no adult watching this channel is competing in anything or looking to increase "function," It's a decent principle. They can go to AthleanX if they want to pretend they're lifting to perform as an athlete. 🤣 Take care.
I just turned 60, and I have been training since I was 20. I was looking for a training routine that is intensive but doesn't hurt my joints. I've found it. Thanks RP
His advice is generally focused on experienced lifters. If you watch enough you can find the caveats for beginners. Focus on technique. Getting close to failure not as important. 2-3 days a week to avoid burnout. Choose mostly compound movements. Good luck
@@benjaminmiller3075 So I have a program aimed at beginners and it has those movements. Mostly I meant how he advises to do those movements, but I do train very close to failure or failure in the last sets because it feels good. Thanks
What I've learned: No one has any idea what's going on. Every week someone is telling me "You gotta do this!" "Don't do that!" "Studies!" They don't really know anything. I'mma just lift weights.
That's the thing, there seems to be a multitude of correct answers to getting big....which means that in general the thing that's keeping most people back is just genetics. After you try literally every peice of advice out there and find that none to any better than any others you'll start to realize that genetics make up 90% of the variability between individuals response to training.
Dude I’ve heard you say a million times on this channel that slow eccentric is better for building muscle. You’ve criticized people’s training for not going slow enough on the eccentric even when you said their form was perfect
Regardless it still emphasizes good form and he didn't double down when confronted with conflicting data. Even his guest said the research on the pause isn't as clear. When science is not settled, you go with expert consensus until new, quality research is presented AND replicated ideally. They both agreed that the pause is not going to harm anything.
@@Jabreedoesn't matter what research says it's what your own results show and slower tempo eccentrics give me more muscle and better gains rep per rep
When I started RP programs I was confused. I am on my third round and I am understanding this more and more. I had to do a lot of my own research and I am loving the knowledge I am gaining. I am 55 now and it would have been awesome to have this knowledge way back. I have real direction now and notice improvements each week. I need to continue to focus on what I am eating. I will get there.
I want to preface this comment by saying that I always take "recent studies" with a grain of salt until there is more of the same study done by different researchers showing the same results using the same conditions. I also want to know what those specific conditions are because that will impact the outcome. You just never know what the variables were or if there is a lean with the data because of who is backing the research to begin with. Moving on... Slower eccentric also means you can use less weight to do fewer reps, which also carries over into doing fewer sets. I've known about slower eccentric movement for quite awhile, but I've never really implemented it until very recently, and I like everything about it. I count to 5: 3-4 in the eccentric, then 1 on the pause before the concentric. I've gotten more of a pump and more soreness than doing it the "traditional" way. I've also used the "full-ROM," and I'd never go back. If you're flexible enough to do it, that extra depth or stretch definitely does something different compared to not doing it. How could it not? That would be a lot like saying going into the anaerobic zone isn't any different than going into the aerobic zone. The anaerobic zone "stretches" your systems more and gives you different results because it's a different type of stress. That's the way I look at it. If you just do one session, sure, you won't notice much, if any difference. Likewise, if you only look at it over a short period of time, there probably won't be much difference. What about if the study was done over a year instead of 6, 8, or 12 weeks? That would be like studying medicines and their effects for 3 months and saying they're safe because nobody shows any serious side effects in those 3 months. Yeah, but what about 1, 2, or 3 years down the line? Don't get me wrong, I trust the scientific method; I just remain skeptical of the people using it. Enough of my rambling.
Great video and collaboration. Everything is nuanced. I prefer lighter weight givenbmy past injuries with slow eccentric and pause. Has helped me get back into the gym and leave my ego at the door!
Also, all (or very close to all) of your videos critiquing people's workouts involve you saying that you'd like to see them slowing down on the eccentric (usually with the caveat that you're just being nit-picky).
One of Mike's recent interviews, he said "yah, slowing down in general doesn't mean much, it's that you need to control the movement and slowing down helps with injury risk by making sure you're in control the whole time." I'm paraphrasing it heavily, but yah.
@@thebadburrito1394 I feel the hypocrisy on this video, i watch a lot of mike`s content and hes constantly criticizing people forms on eccentrics and how much they promote growth. Now he plays like it was just a suggestion for good technique?
@en3525 Mike was literally asking Menno questions in a way to highlight he was wrong about long eccentrics and it just needs to be under control. I'm not sure how he was being hypocritical, he was changing his stance to fit the literature and made it apparent that he realized he was wrong.
@@thebadburrito1394 Hes being a hypocrite by downplaying how much he spouted the hypertrophic growth impact of slow eccentrics, now that the science says otherwise he backpedals his stance, it was just about good form and posture
@en3525 he's not though. Mike has told people for years (even on his "develop the muscle series" and "hypertrophy guides") that controlling thr eccentric is best (which the study found) and slower eccentric (2-5 seconds is usually what he recommends, and this video correlates that the timing doesn't actually matter for growth) helps with injury prevention. If you've watched any of his training videos with people that have been pn more than once or his own workout recordings, he is consistent on only a couple of seconds. Even pauses (like pause squats) he's detailed during quad specialization videos and his squat video were for variation. He's said as much.
Excellent video R.P., funny as hell but Always informative and scientifically correct to help ypur followers learn and understand. Thank you so much for all the effort you and your team put into every video you make.
1:41 ~ Wow! Someone in the exercise science field actually pronounced "eccentric" correctly! Well, to be fair, he said something more like "accentric," but I put that down to his accent.
I've found that with the eccentric, the most metabolic stress, and therefore growth factor, is determined by how much load you can take in the eccentric... BUT... more so how quickly you can generate enough concentric force to overcome the eccentric load. So, something like explosive/clap push ups where you are coming down fast with a LOT of load into the eccentric phase and basically as soon as you catch your body weight, you are trying to apply enough concentric force to prevent your chest from hitting the ground. It is this concentric effort to overcome the eccentric load in power movements that I have found creates the biggest growth response. Pausing at the bottom of the eccentric demonstrates full control of the weight, and therefore, stability... which is an important precursor to explosive/power-training. I never recommend anybody tries explosive lifts without being able to demonstrate that they can pause in the eccentric phase or even various transition stages to make sure there are no weak links in the kinetic chain of the movement.
I switch from Barbell close grip exercises to one arm dumbbell tricep presses. Bringing the range of motion the the center of the chest with the dumbbell. These have definitely helped my lateral tricep head.
Dr Mike, what do you call the situation where a chameleon fails to activate it's camouflage and gets eaten? A reptile disfunction! It came to my mind after listening to you talking about steroids a bunch
It's okay Mike, I'll still go slow and deep for you, no matter what others say
😂😂
💀💀💀💀
Fruitcake
thats a crazy comment
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm
Immense respect for deliberately bringing on guests like Milo and Menno to discuss evidence that directly undercuts RPs practice. Even more respect for modifying your thinking with the research.
Undergoing a Renaissance periodically, so still on brand.
Was thinking about that, like the 1-2 second pause at the bottom of a squat or a pressing movement. But the guest did mention he's not considering hypertrophy only, as far as I understood.
@@citizenz4640it did consider hypertrophy, he’s saying that there is no benefit in the literature for pauses.
@@glennvrijsen9105 nah he said there is a hypertrophic benefit it's just that you're cutting down how many reps you can get so it's a tradeoff.
how tf did what they say undercut rp? He said pretty much what they always do. Fast concentric, slow eccentric, pauses don't rly matter, probably don't do it at the top
What ive learned most from RPE: Fast concentric, slow eccentric, deep stretch, as much range of motion as you can do comfortably.
I'm pretty sure he's right as well. My quad and triceps growth is going nuts.
I guess the secret is to only the control the ecentric to the point where it feels challanging to control if that makes sense. Anything slower than that dosen't add anymore challange.
Slow eccentric doesn't make sense. You end up doing fewer reps
@@CabbageYefewer reps isn’t always bad. You can do 500 reps of the bar then was any muscle growth really happening?
Sounds like a good pump
I love how Mike stopped nodding and started blinking rapidly after Menno said he does not like pausing at the bottom.
i'm dying lol
🤣🤣🤣
I found the answer by Menno and response to the answer by Mike not satisfactory. It evens out obviously in terms of getting to failure either way, but if you pause and squeeze at the stretched position then relatively more of the fatigue is spent in the lengthened more stimulating range, rather than being evenly distributed over the ROM.
lol
@@joddden Sounds logical, but if at the moment the research doesn't suggest that they will not say so.
Don't know if that is the case, just a possible reasoning.
Huge respect to Dr. Mike for bringing guests on that directly challenge Dr. Mike's ideas on training and the fact that he keep his usual self in check and just lets Menno speak!
Because he understands that science can change our understanding of things.
@Micheldied scientific method
I love how these guys start out with differing points of view but through careful discourse they are able to create nuance.
They don't have different points of view
@@lazydictionary yeah they literally have the same approach just with tiny differences in the amount of slowness in the eccentric and the pause at the bottom
@@Schacal6666delulu
They are not so different, just complementary. Very slow negatives might not generate more hypertrophy but its a very good way to make your workout harder and shorter by achieving failure faster, with less reps and more weight. In the end we know building muscle is about taking it to failure under contraction, the variables of doing involved in doing is what changes, not the main formula.
Good point! It's very interesting
Practice the Menno pause👍🏻
hahahahahahahahah
Nice.
lmao
Brilliant.
😂😂
You’ll only lose your hair, your mind, and sweat more than Danny Dovito in San Diego
Dr Mike I really want to applaud you for being a true scientist. It seems of the newer studies don't fully support what's always pushed here on this chanel, mainly pausing (I slow eccentric and love it - won't change). Still you accepted the research and shared it with everyone. Having been subbed to you for a long time, I'm sure you'll post some videos about the newer studies to update everyone on the latest knowledge.
Thanks for being a credible source of information.
Nothing got contradicted in the video. They have the exactly same approach and Mike verifies that in the end. lol
@@Schacal6666Nothing was contradicted, but ideas were definitely challenged. Slow eccentrics and pauses at the bottom are not necessary for muscle growth. However, they can help people avoid injuries.
@@muscledoggs566 7:25 Not necessary but creates the same results. And I always take the lower injury, joint healthy route
Given adaptions are the same, but slower eccentric + pause lowers risk of injury, slow eccentric + pause is preferred. Sooner or later, if you’re really pushing yourself, you’ll get injuries, and they don’t heal perfectly (scar tissue etc).
This video and guest seems to go TOTALLY AGAINST the proven results of ISOMETRIC (STATIC HOLDS with plent of time under tension) and SUPER SLOW training (20-30sec concentric with 30-40 sec eccentric) and the famous High Intensity Training that also goes pretty slow with only one set of about 10 seconds concentric and 10 sec eccentric. Therefore with ISOMETRIC, SUPER SLOW and HIT all provide great results with much less overall time in the gym!
Reply
The sit-downs you've done with Milo and Menno are some of my favorite videos. Love hearing Dr. Mike have reasonable, educational discussions with other experts that have slightly opposing views.
Rep slow - save your joints, avoid injury. Number one reason in my book.
Also that tempo makes you psychologically feel in control and this promotes confidence.
Something that majority of us need, a sense of self confidence.
This is part of why I love this channel, bringing on guests who will challenge their own advice to some extent. Awesome.
One thing I became more aware of, is that I really don’t care about how much weight I’m lifting. Strong is fun, but injury prevention and a 100% focus on hypertrophy, even at the expense of strength adaptations are currently way more fun! I know, preferences may change, but I’ve always followed the “philosophy” menno presented here (majority hypertrophy, but also strength), but the RP approach of unapologetically going for 100% hypertrophy is so much fun, and it’s a nice benefit that it reduces injury risks
Not only does it reduce injuries but I believe it rehabilitates past injuries. My shoulders have never felt better lifting than they do following the RPapp. The slow eccentric and pause increases the mind muscle connection and makes me very aware of any pain or tightness. I often stretch or lengthen the muscle between lifts now and don’t just jerk out reps to meet my rep goal. I am aware of any pain and can lift around the specific injury to strengthen all of the stabilizer muscles.
@@Jim-sn7hw that’s great to hear, I hope you can continue to workout around and prevent and even “cure” some of your injuries.
I 100% agree that the benefit the slow eccentric gives in regards to feel is insane. While it may be, that mind muscle connection per se, is not a requirement for hypertrophy, its indirect benefit of allowing me to target, a specific muscle or muscle group, much more precisely gives me pumps and soreness like I have never seen and felt ever before in my many years of lifting, - similar to what you described regarding the superior control and targeting!
Wish you all the best, and massive gains!
I do both at the same time so it was definitely interesting to watch
Doing strength+power and hypertrophy is fun in your twenties, but in your forties and beyond, injury prevention is paramount. A weight you can do 15-25 reps. No sudden forces (i.e. acceleration). Prehab of shoulder. Etc
For me best episode so far. Because you both seem to see things almost the same but explain it differently, thus people can truly understand what is important and what you mean. This really brought alot of insight about stuff I was having questions about and also confirmed my own thoughts about this.
Watching these guys talk nerdy is a seriously good time.
This channel is fitness on platinum level. So many guys are afraid to say anything even slightly contrary to what they have said before. Dr. Mike is just out here searching for the truth. That is real science. Super thankful.
Dude sitting here, interviewing the literal Gigachad lol
😮😮😮😮
My guy is the actual template. I hope to be reborn as his jawline in my next life.
Dr. Mike is the gigachad
@paperandmedals8316 dr.mike is just gigathumb
gigathumb lmao
Personally, on most lifts, I do around 1.5 to 2 seconds lowering phase then a split second pause to remove the bounce and momentum and then explode on the way up then a split second pause. This makes the exercises much harder and you are forced to lower the weight quite a few.
4 seconds??? Man I think I’m going slow when I do a 2 or 3 count on the eccentric!
So what's the benefit?
I’m the slowest eccentric fool I know at the gym. I’m like 4 and 5 typically.
Just do what feels good. Your pump will tell you everything you need to know.
@@Junglebtc Facts. I try to make every rep a 5-count rep. Up one, down 4, maybe a natural 1- or 2-second pause at the bottom while getting the stretch.
Thanks Dr. Mike, i had a girl that i help train and that uses your app ask why sometimes Jared does the reps a bit faster the than i tell her to do. This video has cleared that up and i understand fully now. Keep up the good work and totally interesting and relevant content - you guys are the beast (best) >>> (Jonny Willis, New Zealand)
😂
I can’t find this app anywhere lol. I see the RP Diet app but has nothing for training.
@@DrewForrister it's a website, not on the app store
I’ve been doing the RP app training and I slow down the eccentric to about a 4-5 count. Lighter weight so less wear and tear in joints and the GNARLIEST pumps I’ve ever gotten.
As an old guy beginner, this is my go-to strategy as well, I've been loving it. Absurd burn, great pump, and no joint discomfort.
Honestly, I did that awhile but settled on about 2 second eccentric. Longer just cuts into recovery and later sets.
Yeah the pumps are crazy
Also props to Mike & RP / rare to see a channel upload a video that to a passive listener counters their messaging
It does not counter their messaging
@@lazydictionaryIt does at first observation. People can easily get lost in translation when you hear go left or go right it's easy to understand since they are different but they go to the same goal but still different since this video changed my perspective of things as well. Now I'm gonna focus less on milking the eccentric and more on explosive concentric when I know I got my form correctly since back then I've been focusing on the eccentric too often but with this video my understanding of it is now broader so I'm thankful but that doesn't mean Mike was wrong coz the eccentric thing did keep me safe ABIT since if he focused on the concentric I'd be riddled with injuries now coz you can easily get injured exploding the the concentric if you just willy nilly do it since you need alot of control to do it right so you need to really steel yourself with the concentric unlike bro reps since bro reps you have less control but more explosive movement and the difference is you DO NOT let go of the control and flex while going for an explosive concentric.
@@BaconManBruh learn some punctuation my man
@@lazydictionary correct it doesn’t, but to a lazy viewer to could appear that way - why I’m giving props
@@BaconManBruh Mike pushed the explosive concentric since the beginning. There are literally zero differences in their approaches
Jeff Nippard showed a study where you get more muscle activation by attempting to do the concentric as fast as possible, being explosive, even if you cannot move the weight fast, the act of mentally attempting to be explosive causes more activation
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:58 💡 *Training tempo consists of eccentric speed, pause length, concentric speed, and stability at the top, with controlled movement yielding similar adaptations regardless of tempo.*
03:17 🏋️ *Explosive concentric movements enhance performance and strength gains, potentially benefiting long-term muscle growth, especially when training for strength.*
04:42 🛑 *Limitations of pausing during lifts include turning sets into cluster sets, potentially reducing tension, and increasing stress on connective tissue, making it less ideal for hypertrophy.*
07:02 🧠 *Slower eccentrics can serve as a coaching tool for improving technique, emphasizing control, and targeting specific muscles, beneficial for injury prevention and variation in training.*
10:15 💡 *Emphasizing slow eccentrics may improve the stimulus-to-fatigue ratio for muscle growth, potentially reducing injury risk, and has a track record in physiotherapy for rehabilitation.*
14:40 🤔 *Body dysmorphia is common in fitness, with individuals often comparing themselves unfavorably on social media, but clinical body dysmorphia is relatively rare in bodybuilding.*
16:00 🍽️ *Opting for familiar, everyday foods underscores the importance of consistency and practicality in nutrition, promoting macro-pragmatism for meeting dietary needs effectively.*
Made with HARPA AI
Thanks GIGACHAD for explaining
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Makes total sense - fast or slow, doesn’t matter so long as you reach the same fatigue end point
I’ll continue doing lower weights with slower controlled to help my joints / neck have the best shot of staying healed
This! I've been going close to failure/to failure with lower weights ever since I got 2x herniated discs off deadlifts, and I've still been having fun in the gym, getting decent results.
Don't be a pussy bra, stack on the weight & toss it around all willy-nilly like. What if someone's watching you?? Lift as hard & fast as you can, just in case someone's watching you...if you get injured, then you know you were doing it right. I'm stupid.
@@ditz3nfitness I've seen too many walking/limping wounded in the gym, or friends who have totally screwed themselves by going too heavy too long. Made me realize lower weight/higher reps was a better option to minimize damage, working well for me.
There is such a thing as too fast. I see guys just using gravity on the eccentric and using the tight tissue bounce to get 1/3 to 1/2 of the concentric. Total shit form destined for injury.
@@paperandmedals8316 yea, just saw a guy in the gym yesterday doing alternating bicep curls exactly like you just described and it hurt my soul.
FSSD:
FOCUS.
STRICTER.
SLOWER.
DEEPER.
Always hear Dr. Mike’s husky voice in my ear during hypertrophy work. Gruesome and encouraging at the same time.
As a non-practicing exercise scientist your channel has rekindled my interest in how the body works before, during and after exercise. Your presentation style is beyond reproach. I only wish my professors were as dynamic and off color as you. Thank you Dr Mike for what you do.
16:32 “This is neither rapid nor fire” made me crack the hell up
In case anyone was wondering, the song at the end is "Flow" by Phutureprimitive
Knew I recognized his sound!
Whew!!! Now I can get to my workout...
I have never heard of them..but then I'm old...
Oh hell yeah!! Top tier channel on the tube. ❤
I really appreciate the data-driven guidance I get from your channel. Subscribed. Keep up the good work.
I'm in my 50's and it seems that slower eccentric allows me to reach the same fatigue/hypertrophy endpoint with less overall reps and less joint irritation.
A terrific discussion!
My takeaways:
1. Confirms that minor variations in lifting techniques as detailed by Dr. Mike and Menno Henselmans will yield similar to identical benefits in hypertrophy and strength.
2. Confirms that Dr. Mike’s philosophy that a slow, roughly four second eccentric, with a pause at the bottom leads to improved technique which in turn helps ensure that the target muscle(s) are properly worked for optimal hypertrophy.
3. Slow eccentric reduces the likelihood of injury which over the long term leads to improved hypertrophy and strength gains. If you’re not injured your gaining!
Great stuff Dr. Mike and Menno!
Control=lower injury risk=long term hypertrophy and strength developement!
I love this format. Great video, the back and forth with another expert just makes so many things clearer. Getting more than just one viewpoint is worth a lot.
The great thing about weight training…you can try different approaches on yourself, and just stick with whatever seems to be working.
I’ve come to understand, the pause at the bottom is really just there to eliminate momentum. So if you are doing curls, you aren’t just heaving with your back, but calling for the biceps. If you have a good mind muscle connection. You might not need to do it.
This is so great to watch.
Im 50. Ive been training slow and controlled to keep injury free but I have noticed that my muscle gains have been huge as well. I feel the pumps more and I dont get hurt and i feel more flexible and athletic now when I do martial arts.
All that and actually getting bigger. Its been amazing...
If you can get the same results utilizing lower weight and slower speeds and reduce injuries, it seems RP’s training philosophy still holds true.
I think ignoring the advice of pausing at the bottom is the only new takeaway here.
@@ryanleal1764 which kinda makes sense, we know static isometric exercises don't give you much gains in general. I do agree it helps eliminate that bounce and encourages good technique. so limiting that hold at the bottom to like half a second would probably work just as well
@@ryanleal1764 Pausing at the bottom still has a place just like they said here. Rehab, "prehab, and learning the form because it helps with mind-muscle connection. I've been using it for squats to rehab my quad tendons.
Yeah, people hear something isn't better at hypertrophy or strength or some other quality, here we are talking about hypertrophy, and their takeaway is it's bad or something, doesn't have other good qualities like you listed and
same or similar results for hypertrophy but also other benefits, like you mentioned, that doesn't register with them.
I'd also mention the advantage of getting more out of less weight not just for your reasons but as someone with limited equipment, limited weights, that's a consideration for me. That's a reason some might chose to do slower repetitions, up to a point and higher repetitions, up to a point, not because it works better but because it works better with lower weights if still in the hypertrophy rep range and speeds still associated with hypertrophy in the literature.
Lol no, it's not good for strength development, but ig this channel and it's viewers don't care about that 😆
Dr. Mike is really the man here…. Mike lets his guest speak without interrupting and comes back with sensible responses, a no bs approach.
the no pause or super slow eccentric needed is great news 😇
Since watching this channel, and dropping weights, slowing down movements, pausing at the bottom I have enjoyed my workouts much more. The slowdown really allows for better mind muscle connection and quality of movement. Meanwhile, I am way more sore after training than when I was lifting heavier and lifting for power. So thanks to Dr. Mike.
This channel is far and away the best in its category simply because Mike and his guests usually get to the point very quickly, following-up with more detail, opposed to vice versa. It makes the content more engaging and easier to process.
This entire video can be summed up into three sentences (7:20):
Dr. Mike: “But who cares how many reps I do if I get to the same failure endpoint and have higher quality reps?“
Guest: “So it seems to even out.”
Dr. Mike: “Ok, cool.”
Simply put, slower reps force you to lift moderate weight and yields more of a controlled movement which in return reduces the likelihood of injury. As long as the muscle is fatigued enough (tine under tension) and more motor units recruited… the stimulus for growth will be produced.
I appreciate the nod to the difference between hypertrophy and sports performance. I learn more about lifting mainly for sports performance but it's so hard to find information for sports that aren't barbell sports or football.
Ive been focusing on the stretch under load, and slow eccentric with a pause with less weight and less rest in between sets. So far, i dont get as sore or deal with shoulder pain. I just hope ill get good growth. Ive always lifted as heavy as i can with fast reps. It made me sorer, stronger, but not incredibly bigger.
To summary, factors such as slow eccentrics and deep stretches seems to even out as long as you are reaching near or to failure in a optimally (not overly) controlled repetition.
Mad respect for Dr. Mike for regularly invite narratives that challenge his
9:35 This is my tactic. Do strength training, reach a nice strength threshold, then pump out hypertrophy at that range. Then a few weeks or months later, do strength training again to reach a higher strength peak, then pump out that hypertrophy again. Rinse and repeat until gorilla.
Yep!
One of my favorite videos in recent times. Thanks Dr Mike.
Greek yogurt, unflavored whey powder, vanilla, and a tiny bit of heavy cream can make a very high protein food which, with a little effort, one can pretend tastes like ice cream. (Works better if you haven't eaten fructose/sucrose in at least six months.)
My go-to protein pudding - 200g greek yoghurt, 15g peanut butter, 20g honey, 1 scoop chocolate whey protein. Comes out pretty close to no-bake cheesecake.
I'm gonna try that.@@Baytowne0888
If you don’t mind sugars, I use 400g fage Greek yogurt (I’m Greek, that brand is the only one straining the yogurt enough to actually make it legit greek yogurt). I add 30g breitsmeir forest honey and 30g raw walnuts.
I do the chocolate protein powder as well. 400g fage greek yogurt, I scoop protein. If you can, add a few hundred grams of fresh strawberry and/or pineapple. You could add almond butter to this too.
Such a versatile, easy to eat high protein food. I eat it almost everyday.
i keep my protein powder for shakes only...its a taste/texture thing. I mix a bit of mango keifer with plain greek, max protein, minimum sugar, some extra help on the gut health..usually my first thing i eat or last thing before bed with vitamins
I like Oikos protein greek yogurt. They make a Key Lime flavour in Canada. I'll add a scoop of protein and some strawberries or blueberries. Good stuff.
Science is being open to new ideas that may upend your entire understanding of a topic.
Love to see it.
Nice to see DrM and Jeff in my latest issue of Men’s Health… imagine my delight!! Preaching that SLOOOOWWW STRRREEEEEEEEEEEETCH and looking damn handsome doing it!
"Control first, explosiveness second. You cannot build on a shaky fondation", I love it! 8:00
I appreciate this content a great deal. Thank you
There was a TV serie in the Netherlands about 2 brothers who run a business in funerals ceremonies. One episode goes about a bodybuilder funeral. The family and friend did everything to make the corpse looks at the best, they even manage to use a kind of pump device to inject the muscles with air ......
Bottom line is no one really knows what they are talking about so just eat protein do 3 to 4 sets of 12 reps 5 times a week rest 2 days and start over ! Thats how i grew my 21's i followed just those things i mentioned! No roids just time ! They are always changing and saying do this do that it's just humorous at this point just do old school training. Time folks time nothing is 123 .
My thoughts exactly. I pay attention to what my body reacts to and be dynamic with my workouts. The goal is to get a pump with good techinque. You dont get a pump with reps under 5 or 10... you gets pump between 15 and 50...
It would be great if in convos like this, to visually show us like one example of what you guys mean. For us newbies who are getting into weightlifting. I'm trying to wrap my head around on how to perform how you're explaining it.
Sometimes i watch these science videos and think to myself: man im not mr Olympia, just lift properly lift heavy and eat right, do a little cardio and ill be good why do i need to change everything in my plan and routine thatll cause me to have a few percentage points higher gains. Basics still work and apply right?
My man Menno, love his stuff. Thank you for bringing him to the channel
I love slow reps, with pause under streach. An the last rep i prefer to do longer pause, an grind my way out. This has helpd me a tone to avoid injuries.
Nothing has helped me made more gains
Or how about when you just kind of hold that last rep of that last set, maybe inching it down a little before pulling it back, basically holding onto it until you twitch and damn near start laughing? Those are that "extra" type of rep Arnold wrote about, without all the stuff about it making you feel as though you've had an orgasm, of course. 🤣
@@AJHart-eg1ysI always try to do this on my single arm pull downs. I feel like my late have grow more since I started doing this!
@@ajnegro2052 I go with both arms on the pulldowns, but I make sure to use the short handles rather than the bar. That way I can go down farther and deeper bc my head isn't in the way, allowing my hands to be more parallel (but not quite) with my head.
Then, on that last rep of the last set, I hold it for a long time. Then I inch up slowly about 8", then maybe back down to 90 degrees, then inch up again, sort of climbing up and down a ladder, slowly, teasing out the rep. Then when extended almost all the way up, I'll bring it all the way back down for a final full rep and slowly let it back up.
Another thing I've found invaluable with that movement is to NEVER wrap my thumb around the handle/bar, making the closed grip most people do. Just make sort of a claw out of your remaining 4 fingers gripping over the top of the handle/bar. I have found that it makes the movement hit my lats considerably more, and that's what we're there for.
When you wrap that thumb, you're enlisting your forearms. And, let's be honest, if you're lifting often enough, you don't really need to do forearm work unless it's really a thing for you or your genetics just won't allow for much incidental growth. That said, the forearm burn you get from farmer's walks around the gym is delightful.
BTW, opening the grip works on other movements as well. I've also found that if I just have my hands flat, palms up, and move the handles on the flye machine with the insides of my hands, it can greatly increase the "cone of tension" of that movement. I feel the pull much earlier and with my arms much further apart - producing a longer period of tension - than the normal, vertical gripping of those handles. As you sit there now, try it and the normal way while the other hand feels where your pec meets the shoulder. That's at least a 20-degree difference, and 2X ...
Take care.
alr thanks for the helpful info bro!@@AJHart-eg1ys
Great video and loved the very science driven approach, please bring on more guests Menno! I got the gist straight away but I found this video quite advanced (perceiving myself as intermediate) and I would have loooved some further explanations/images/videos etc to really drive home the points of what you both were saying.
3:26 shout out to the editor that was a smoooooth cut
"Pause at the bottom." & "Really hammer on that explosiveness" - Best relationship advice ever!!! Thanks Dr Mike!
I’ve been training for 10 years and have tried just about every style of training and style of the way you do your reps.
I’ve gotten my best growth and my most gnarliest pumps doing Dr Mikes style of training. Not only that but my joints and tendons don’t ache and hurt like they used to and they have gotten stronger. And yes, I have worked up to using the same amount of weight that I used to.
Nice case study
You mean not Metzger one working set😂. Casey Victor gained 63lbs in 30 days training every other day on only 4K-5k calories.
@@jpryan90 I’ve lifted heavy for years. Competitive powerlifting and strongman. A year ago a switched up to Dr Mike’s type training. Reps went from 6 to 10-20. Absolutely blew up to the point my wife says I’m too big. She’s even a bit annoyed all the shirts she’s ever bought me just hang in the closet no longer fitting. Totally humbled that after decades still learning new things in weight training
I love these videos. I learn new weightlifting info and I get a dose of some dark military style humor. Brings me back. Thanks for that guys.
When the guy is talking debunking Mike's training philosophy and Mike is staring at the floor I hear the music "Hello darkness my old friend"
We watched different videos. I saw no evidence for "debunking"
😅😅😅
@@kidkoopa6389Mike always tells everyone he trains to pause, sometimes he even tells them to pause longer
He goes into detail as to why. Then goes in his training on Tik Tok .
Menno is the best guest. I actually have the reverse body dysmorphia, I look in the mirror and be like damn I'm ugly, I look away and I'm vibing feeling like a sicko. That completely irrational body confidence, it's certainly a better way to be than the negative type 🤷♂️
Doctor israetel head is starting to look like Freezer from Dragon Ball Z 👌🏼
Pure knowledge. Soaking it in. This video is incredible! Thank you both.
Intentionally slow eccentrics aren't going to hurt hypertrophy, but in some movements they're almost certainly hurting performance outside of the weight room. A good example is squats - if you're doing exaggeratedly long eccentrics with a pause at the bottom, you're weakening the stretch response and this is going to affect your jumping ability in sports like basketball. If you don't care about that bc you're all about hypertrophy, cool, have at it. And this is all weighed against the injury risk which, again, varies by movement. Do I think there's a substantial difference in injury risk between doing a long, slow eccentric squat with a pause at the bottom vs a simply *controlled* eccentric with no pause? Nah, not really, but make that call for yourself. For other movements, especially those involving the elbows, I think there definitely can be an injury-reduction benefit to slower eccentrics and less concern about performance impacts.
It touches on why real track athletes minimize actual stretching in favor of simply warming up. They need those elastic bands in their legs to snap back while competing. That doesn't happen if you've stretched them all out and loosened them up.
That said, since almost no adult watching this channel is competing in anything or looking to increase "function," It's a decent principle. They can go to AthleanX if they want to pretend they're lifting to perform as an athlete. 🤣
Take care.
Old school body builder taught me and my friends to go slow… not too slow but slow as if you’re being purposeful in your sets.
I just turned 60, and I have been training since I was 20. I was looking for a training routine that is intensive but doesn't hurt my joints. I've found it. Thanks RP
I am a beginner at the gym and I try to train as Dr. Mike advises
His advice is generally focused on experienced lifters. If you watch enough you can find the caveats for beginners. Focus on technique. Getting close to failure not as important. 2-3 days a week to avoid burnout. Choose mostly compound movements. Good luck
You're on a great path
@@benjaminmiller3075 So I have a program aimed at beginners and it has those movements. Mostly I meant how he advises to do those movements, but I do train very close to failure or failure in the last sets because it feels good. Thanks
@@benjaminmiller30752-3 days a week? Are those full-body days? I want to avoid a burnout 🥴
Amazing video. I would love to see Menno on the making progress channel. A discussion, a joint lecture, or a debate, would be a lot of fun.
What I've learned: No one has any idea what's going on. Every week someone is telling me "You gotta do this!" "Don't do that!" "Studies!" They don't really know anything. I'mma just lift weights.
This is why its important to run your own experiments and observes what is and isn't working for you.
Exactly. Isn’t it exhausting?
Absorb and observe but do what works best for u. A lot of these people like this guy are ignorant about lifting weights
Agree. What this guy says even goes against Mike's training. No one really knows their arse from their elbow.
That's the thing, there seems to be a multitude of correct answers to getting big....which means that in general the thing that's keeping most people back is just genetics. After you try literally every peice of advice out there and find that none to any better than any others you'll start to realize that genetics make up 90% of the variability between individuals response to training.
Educational and immensely entertaining! Thank you both!
Dude I’ve heard you say a million times on this channel that slow eccentric is better for building muscle. You’ve criticized people’s training for not going slow enough on the eccentric even when you said their form was perfect
hence this video
Yeah but new research shows that this is not the case and Mike has changed his view on this topic due to this new research. He’s a scientist..
Regardless it still emphasizes good form and he didn't double down when confronted with conflicting data. Even his guest said the research on the pause isn't as clear. When science is not settled, you go with expert consensus until new, quality research is presented AND replicated ideally. They both agreed that the pause is not going to harm anything.
@@Jabreedoesn't matter what research says it's what your own results show and slower tempo eccentrics give me more muscle and better gains rep per rep
When I started RP programs I was confused. I am on my third round and I am understanding this more and more. I had to do a lot of my own research and I am loving the knowledge I am gaining. I am 55 now and it would have been awesome to have this knowledge way back. I have real direction now and notice improvements each week. I need to continue to focus on what I am eating. I will get there.
I want to preface this comment by saying that I always take "recent studies" with a grain of salt until there is more of the same study done by different researchers showing the same results using the same conditions. I also want to know what those specific conditions are because that will impact the outcome. You just never know what the variables were or if there is a lean with the data because of who is backing the research to begin with. Moving on...
Slower eccentric also means you can use less weight to do fewer reps, which also carries over into doing fewer sets. I've known about slower eccentric movement for quite awhile, but I've never really implemented it until very recently, and I like everything about it. I count to 5: 3-4 in the eccentric, then 1 on the pause before the concentric. I've gotten more of a pump and more soreness than doing it the "traditional" way. I've also used the "full-ROM," and I'd never go back. If you're flexible enough to do it, that extra depth or stretch definitely does something different compared to not doing it. How could it not? That would be a lot like saying going into the anaerobic zone isn't any different than going into the aerobic zone. The anaerobic zone "stretches" your systems more and gives you different results because it's a different type of stress. That's the way I look at it. If you just do one session, sure, you won't notice much, if any difference. Likewise, if you only look at it over a short period of time, there probably won't be much difference. What about if the study was done over a year instead of 6, 8, or 12 weeks?
That would be like studying medicines and their effects for 3 months and saying they're safe because nobody shows any serious side effects in those 3 months. Yeah, but what about 1, 2, or 3 years down the line? Don't get me wrong, I trust the scientific method; I just remain skeptical of the people using it. Enough of my rambling.
This was well stated but soreness does not necessarily equate to gains. I've experienced it personally but it does make you feel more accomplished
Great video and collaboration. Everything is nuanced. I prefer lighter weight givenbmy past injuries with slow eccentric and pause. Has helped me get back into the gym and leave my ego at the door!
Holding at the stretch helps with my flexibility, this is important to me
Stretching doesn't need to be done under load.
@@aliendroneservices6621 The stretch feels great, getting a deep movement like incline dumbbell press
@@aliendroneservices6621it contributes to building muscle and flexibility and mobility on dips I go deep stretch keeps my shoulders bullet proof
@@aliendroneservices6621it contributes to building muscle and flexibility and mobility on dips I go deep stretch keeps my shoulders bullet proof
Renaissance - Thank you for all your high quality content always. Also your commentary between lectures are well noticed! Lol thank you
Also, all (or very close to all) of your videos critiquing people's workouts involve you saying that you'd like to see them slowing down on the eccentric (usually with the caveat that you're just being nit-picky).
One of Mike's recent interviews, he said "yah, slowing down in general doesn't mean much, it's that you need to control the movement and slowing down helps with injury risk by making sure you're in control the whole time."
I'm paraphrasing it heavily, but yah.
@@thebadburrito1394 I feel the hypocrisy on this video, i watch a lot of mike`s content and hes constantly criticizing people forms on eccentrics and how much they promote growth. Now he plays like it was just a suggestion for good technique?
@en3525 Mike was literally asking Menno questions in a way to highlight he was wrong about long eccentrics and it just needs to be under control. I'm not sure how he was being hypocritical, he was changing his stance to fit the literature and made it apparent that he realized he was wrong.
@@thebadburrito1394 Hes being a hypocrite by downplaying how much he spouted the hypertrophic growth impact of slow eccentrics, now that the science says otherwise he backpedals his stance, it was just about good form and posture
@en3525 he's not though. Mike has told people for years (even on his "develop the muscle series" and "hypertrophy guides") that controlling thr eccentric is best (which the study found) and slower eccentric (2-5 seconds is usually what he recommends, and this video correlates that the timing doesn't actually matter for growth) helps with injury prevention.
If you've watched any of his training videos with people that have been pn more than once or his own workout recordings, he is consistent on only a couple of seconds. Even pauses (like pause squats) he's detailed during quad specialization videos and his squat video were for variation. He's said as much.
Was waiting for this video for soo long.Thank you Dr. Israetel.
Dr. Mike israetel been real quiet since this one dropped....
Excellent video R.P., funny as hell but Always informative and scientifically correct to help ypur followers learn and understand. Thank you so much for all the effort you and your team put into every video you make.
I started as a couch potato 4 months ago,i built a ton of muscle only by following Dr.Mike's advice.
Once I started doing a deep stretch and pause I noticed much better results
Bring this guy back
So how many seconds should I I control?❤
1:41 ~ Wow! Someone in the exercise science field actually pronounced "eccentric" correctly! Well, to be fair, he said something more like "accentric," but I put that down to his accent.
Menno is poo-poo'ing all over your "pause at the bottom, feeeeeel the stretch" direction of your sessions. He's no fun.
I've found that with the eccentric, the most metabolic stress, and therefore growth factor, is determined by how much load you can take in the eccentric... BUT... more so how quickly you can generate enough concentric force to overcome the eccentric load. So, something like explosive/clap push ups where you are coming down fast with a LOT of load into the eccentric phase and basically as soon as you catch your body weight, you are trying to apply enough concentric force to prevent your chest from hitting the ground. It is this concentric effort to overcome the eccentric load in power movements that I have found creates the biggest growth response.
Pausing at the bottom of the eccentric demonstrates full control of the weight, and therefore, stability... which is an important precursor to explosive/power-training. I never recommend anybody tries explosive lifts without being able to demonstrate that they can pause in the eccentric phase or even various transition stages to make sure there are no weak links in the kinetic chain of the movement.
Yes! Menno is great. Always enjoyed his content.
i mean.. compare the physiques. lol
Ones juiced up and wants to be massive, the other is just a normal guy
I switch from Barbell close grip exercises to one arm dumbbell tricep presses. Bringing the range of motion the the center of the chest with the dumbbell. These have definitely helped my lateral tricep head.
Bruh just contradicted everything he built this channel on
Dr Mike, what do you call the situation where a chameleon fails to activate it's camouflage and gets eaten? A reptile disfunction!
It came to my mind after listening to you talking about steroids a bunch
i’d like to listen to him but.. he’s small
😂😂
😂😂😂
Burn unit!
I love how you listened and were respectful and didn't feel the need to stomp on his words at all.
Great video, amazing guest.
He's smart but skinny, I don't ever want to be skinny lol
This amazing info is being gifted to us! Thank you Dr.
That pause at squat KILLLS me , great tip thanks DR MIKE
Very informative video. Thank you Dr. Mike