Thank you Mr. Richard Gere for shedding light on Buddhism for our western friends. Only compassion and deep understand can bring peace and harmony to all sentient beings. Anger, violence and war will only bring suffering....we will get trap in darkness for years, lifetimes and eons.
On this Buddhist path and like Richard began with Zen. It is the only practice that has brought stability to my life after years of confusion and suffering
No matter what page or channel you go to on UA-cam. No matter what your watching whether its birds song on a meadow or race car driving. the comments made by people always end up being threatening and hateful. Now that really says a lot about us as fearful beings. lol
This is not a religon this is mental medicine. this is just reality......sadly some people don't want reality. it is too much for them mentally.So they need something that will take them somewhere more "better" than this life. While they destroy their world. this is it....Embrace it.
I am so thankful that I want it again & again. I have always loved animals but in this life am a banker - i dearly hope in my next life to be a Vet - work with animals every living day Wow! That to me would be the ideal life There is so much goodness to life but it won't land on top of our heads - we have to fight for it, make it happen
Yes, I was raised by Catholics. For the past six years I've studied Buddhism & Hinduism, etc. I now have a degree in religious studies. Shiva and the other gods grant favors to people after "kalpas" of "tapas," thousands of years of spiritual suffering. It's little different from Christianity, only that for the Christian all this pain and atonement is squeezed into one lifetime instead of an indefinite chain of lives. The universe, in your belief, is run by karma. We have no choice in criteria.
"torture" is only a state of mind because you were clinging to your ego, to what you think belong to you, to what you think suppose to hapend..it is about accepting and brought that experiences to positive one :)
paying forward is how credit systems work, which for most people I've encountered (my college town of Asheville is very East-oriented, as Albequerque is in New Mexico) is the idealized Western view of how Eastern wisdom works. Credit is not binding because it is forward-looking; debt is by definition past-oriented. Paying back is how debt works, paying forward is how salvation and revivalism works, values espoused by Christians and Buddhists.
YES they are saying the same thing. And what I have been saying this whole time is that if you insist that life is a blessing, as Christians also do, it comes loaded with the assumption that it is because it is given by God and that God's choice of how to give it to us is entirely justified by his own whims of how he wants to. If caste and species or general lot in life (amount of suffering) is not payback for sins or grace, it's an arbitrary situation which your God(s) is still responsible for.
You seem to answer your own question. If a computer is just a box, it has no component to feel, no way to sense loss if it has no delicate parts to lose. Though now with quantum computing it's becoming possible that someday a computer may eventually dawn on a sense of vulnerability & irony. I don't dream too much about that possibility, but we don't have a real definition of consciousness so there doesn't seem to be much reason to talk about it. Is a plant conscious, when it grows towards light?
"Is a plant conscious, when it grows towards light?" I don't know - we don't have all the answers - but from our own experience, there is more to us than mind & body, whether animals & plants have it is still being debated
I am talking about the cost that the samaritan might have incurred by helping you - the hospital stay & any of the medicines, doctors treatment etc. These things need to be reimbursed & paid back What Hinduism is saying is that even after such cost, if u end up dying before u get a chance to pay back the money, u must come back to repay
Now that you are an earning member - tell me, you have worked hard at your job, after the month is over, your company is indebted to you - how would you feel if they don't pay? They don't honor the debt? Now you are on the other side, you sing a diff tune?
"What purpose does academic research serve if it is not supposed to be an offering of grace to all society and future generations?" correct, but don't forget that research should not be based on altruism - the person who works hard & invents something that benefits everyone, should be rewarded - that is how capitalism works & it is the best system by far
show compassion show understanding they did it to us because we did it to them its so simple compassion understanding then wisdom your blokes missed it but you got it i watched them boo you i will always remember and i will take your comments to death
My explanation is that we will be born in ALL ways! It is like being in class - one class we love, others we hate, one Teacher we love, others we may not like. Each & eveyr life will be like sitting in class - each & every life is teachig us something. U are so besotted with debt, u forgot the reason u sit in class Tell me, why do u go to school? Sit in class? To pay off a debt?
Don't patronize me, I am an adult and I make a living, nobody else pays my bills. My point about student debt is it's a corrupt industry. The stock market is always a gamble, it doesn't promise you a career, it doesn't have bureaucratic marketing schemes that say one thing and practice another. I presented my research at conferences and did more work than virtually anyone else there. I've studied abroad, been stiffed, seen all kinds of things. The problem is systemic coercion, not personal debts
this is about realization. when that person realize what he she did was wrong, that is when she he was free, enlightenment :) That realization that what he she did was bad from the bottom of her his heart ad move forward from that make her his free...this is what i think about what Buddha teach..That is why do not act based on ill will, or hurting someone..The basic is that
...inner circle of academia where it was revealed that progress is secondary or even less important than keeping existing employment/power structures in place. This is the story in government and academics equally, both shaped by billions of dollars spent by corporate industries that make insane profits, commit fraud, and are merely taxed a small percentage of a year's profit for said fraud--and in that case only if it is visibly catastrophic to the lives of people on the ground, lower classes.
"U can't claim to present gifts, then turn around and demand debts" yes the gift is education, employment - then if u recieve such a gift, you are duty bound to pass it on - that's how you repay your teacher, it is not a one-to-one transaction As for the good samaritan - it's just common sense - no problem in someone stopping & helping u to the hospital but some hospital demand payment before admitting even the heavily injured. If u are unconcious & the good samaritan pays the bill to admit u...
What if I miss opportunities to pay back debt, or don't even know if I'm in debt? What if I genuinely believe there's no reason for the debt I'm held to? In Christianity the same optimism holds. God only demands immediate payments in the Old Testament, but Christians have split into a million directions on how God offers little ways to become intimate with him and dissolve debts. I think both systems of cosmic debt are insane. What could I possibly do that would put God at a disadvantage?
contd..understand if you don't repay. Basically then if he comes across a similar sitaution this time he may stay away. So, if next time u hear one of ur loved ones in a sticky situation but no one steps up to help, then u understand why These things are not that complicated
contd...it's just common sense & a nice thing to do for you is to pay back the good samaritan the hospital bill that he paid i would recommned taking an economics class - search on wikepedia on Adam Smith - they should have a condensed version on what he wrote - it is an eye-opener on what commerce really does
...example. What purpose does academic research serve if it is not supposed to be an offering of grace to all society and future generations? I received no payment for the research I did in college, but painstakingly spent years summarizing and following through arguments presented to me all through college and elsewhere. My payment would have been some career pathway or appreciation for that work that offered steps toward publishing. But only at the point of graduation was I allowed into the...
I have never said anything about stealing objects, we are talking about the general concept of debts which is problematic over time, by treating people as outsiders to a game of debt that they have to buy into and play well in order to survive among humans. It's purely transactional, and this creates myriad loopholes in actual practice (hence history) of something logicians call the fallacy of forced choice. Competition is the imaginary solution but you can't transcend if you are reactionary.
#1: It means we're held accountable according to standards that are ambiguous and interpreted by the upper class. #2: What makes it a gift if we have no choice but to go through the whole thing (without memories), suffer and offer more and more devotion to Brahman until finally being snuffed out? #3: The sadistic torture chamber is part of the gift of life; it's evolution, and lower species/social classes pay just as much as damned souls. #4: "earn" according to unquestioned divine expectations.
Karma & Rebirth means We are ACCOUNTABLE for our actions. We take Responsibility. Karma & Rebirth means that we enjoy the Gift of Life, over & over again! Karma & Rebirth means there is no place for a Hell, no sadistic God running a torture chamber Karma & Rebirth means that We EARN everything. A Hindu must never beg nor take anything that is unearned Karma & Rebirth means we Hindus earn Praise FROM God! Anyone fool can praise God, but Blessed are the Hindus that aim to earn Praise FROM God!
The simplest way to explain it to someone who has not seen this for themselves or read anything about the history of worker rights, the problem of debts is the extent that most of the binding ones are dressed up in rhetoric that makes them all sound like personal debts when they actually originate from premises that are made up, namely property or knowledge ownership--property and knowledge are not always false claims, but 25+ year felony sentences for academic copyright infringement is an...
The thing about what I am saying is that it doesn't matter what they do, it matters what you do. YOU took the debt, YOU used the money, now YOU need to pay it back - it wasn't unfair when you were taking the money, now you have to pay it back, looks like u are looking for an excuse to get out of repaying the debt
"What if I miss opportunities to pay back debt, or don't even know if I'm in debt? What if I genuinely believe there's no reason for the debt I'm held to?" see that's the problem, u are so focused on this debt - u do not see the opportunity. It is like someone forces u to go work with animals in an animal shelter to pay off ur debt. U love it so much u forget about the debt, even when they say ur debt is paid off, u can go now, u beg to stay See the opportunity here, not the debt
Whether it is one person or a hundred, a debt is a debt - you are an adult, you took the money or the service with open eyes - now it comes to repayment, how does paying it back to a corporation make a difference? If the debt owed is to your own father, you will be happy to pay but if it is a stranger that you don't like, you can weasel out? That's the diff between Hinduism & other religions-for other religions, God, a 3rd party will make the decision. In Hinduism it is YOU - it is your decision
1:21...there is no me to be mine about...when you feel this like the Buddha does, the whole universe changes, nothing to protect, you want this, here take it 3:10...I really felt like these rescue workers, cops, firefighters, etc. were behaving like Bodhisattvas...they didn't say who are the good guys and bad guys here, they didn't care who was Jewish, Muslim, etc. they helped everybody even cats....
well, ma friend..if only you and i can read the book of karma, maybe we can understand all of this. Karma works in a complicated form but your way of dealing with it, it always up to you :) Don't stressing the world problem my friend, find a small thing you can do to your surrounding to make it a better place for all :D there, you can make your most impact
I think i posted this before, the story of Bheeshma the grand uncle of the Pandavas makes a terrible vow to stay celibate because that would allow his father to marry - the emperor - a Fisherwoman! There are many instances in Hindu texts of so-called lower castes marrying so-called upper castes But we get selective readng from westerners, christians - who want to mock & abuse every religion that they run into & these seem to be ur guides
"Karma would say so" please Karma is NOT a spiritual pay back system. Karma means work, action. You study hard, sacrifice, put in the "work", Karma, & u get rewarded with good grades. Very simple - the idea got a bit distorted in the west
Yes life is harsh, life is difficult - so u latch on to some Sugar Daddy who will keep u in comfort In fact, that's what a lot of people do in life - they find working hard for a living unappealing, so they find a Sugar Daddy - a rich guy & become his yes men or hit men Is that what you aspire to become? What Hinduism is saying is obvious - u have to work at life, yes, it is bad, but running away won't solve anything. A Quitter never wins
You're also not paying attention to the reason we got onto this long tangent out of this page. My response to you is over the notion that morality can be based on debts. A lawsuit is a process of levying a debt which is not contractual, it involves arguments that can be twisted to hurt either a company or an individual unfairly--but it renders debts, which you suggest countering by racking more debts in anxiety-fueled hording of reserve capital. Paying things "forward" doesn't enter this picture
Say someone dies without paying off his debts. In the christian or muslim religion, God will either make them pay or nicely forgive them & off they go enjoy! In the Hindu faith, you have acquired bad Karma, it is YOUR Debt, YOU must pay it back, no begging or groveling or crying, no back door way out. Come back & repay - but that repayment is not forced - one will be given an opportunity to pay the debt back - one must watch out for it
contd...Life OR Death? Those who seek the pleasures of the flesh, the easy life choose Heaven & they get Death - Eternal Death Hindus are blessed - we choose Life - Life is a Great Gift from God & we get to savor it over & over
"Life is not preparation for anything unless you worship Yahweh and believe in an afterlife. Being born with horrifying defects, into abusive homes, into war-torn societies, is not like a bad class" ah, I get you now. That's the carrot of religion, that's how they get you. Life is bad, life is harsh here, see that nice mountain waaaay over there? See how smooth it is? our mountain? see how craggy it is Heaven is that far-away smooth mountain, a myth, a fantasy
contd..then that shirt would be shipped to shops - which means transportation - lorries, trains. Then in the shop u need lighting, salesmen, doors, windows, glass, cement - the govt must step in & lay roads. Finally the shirt lands on ur back but u may have used a credit card - just count the number of jobs in the whole process! U needed the farmer, the workers making the fertilizer, workers making the tractor, drivers, middlemen, workers making cement, glass, doors, workers in the shirt factory
i obviously do not personally know about what you do or did in your life - my comments were based on what you posted, your feelings about debt owed to corporations The problem is not the debt, it is the greedy corporation & their insane profits but sometimes they have to make them - u do know about the old lady who sued mcdonalds for the coffee being too hot? Retail stores lose billions due to stolen merchandise - the costs of which they HAVE to pass on to the consumer
Your case for souls is an argument from ignorance: "I can't think of any other way to distinguish myself from a computer." The brain is more complex than the average computer, it doesn't have to have some ghostly thing in it. A computer can't compute irony, mostly because its not equipped to but evolved brains do--human and not human--because we've had to go thru millions of years of fear, hunting, survival, etc. which require irony and a combination of hypothetical imagination with experience.
Society runs on credit, debt is a hardened version that treats people with skepticism and less like equals. It's more necessary in some circumstances with certain people, but not as necessary as your politicians or religious leaders may lead you to believe. Giving my word means much to me, but if I promise you repayment and a tornado destroys all my possessions and my home the next day, how strictly will you still require payment? You are rigid in your thinking if there is no change.
I think at this point we have kicked this around & I am not sure we are moving forward much. I need you to become an adult, go out into the working world, earn a living, get stiffed by someone after u have done a lot of work for them to realize what I am talking about "I have $11K student loan debt, an unfair trade from an industry that pretends" well, they didn't force u to get that debt. I had debt also about 30K - money lost in the stock market - took me about 6-8 years to pay it off
Your generalizations of East vs. West attitudes toward debt is also a caricature, especially in our internet age where nearly every possible combination of (often contradictory) religious views exists. Christians often do not believe in a forgiving God, millions believe His rules have been set out and we're indebted to him as the creator. "It's all plainly written in the Bible," fundamentalists say, and they are somewhat right. If you and I meet Yahweh after death we certainly have unpaid debts.
Why would the Samaritan go out of his way to help the man if he expected full repayment--there's money, time, knowledge that he employed. That's actually imposing a cost on the victim that because of a natural sense of mercy actually cost less to the Samartian to give than it would be to repay. If you describe Hinduism correctly, it contradicts how you described it earlier. Mercy, gifts, grace require no repayment by definition. U can't claim to present gifts, then turn around and demand debts.
Exploitation isn't removed from debt. Often exploitation is precisely leveraging debt aggressively against someone who you deem in debt. Jacked interest rates, for example, can happen with little to no reason. I still hold you in debt of answering my questions: what makes Reality TV a useful enterprise to anyone? How does one repay one's mother, teachers, for things they do that are intrinsically altruistic--not as Ayn Rand would describe it, but as humans do with an expanded sense of "self".
"People like u" freethinkers? Have I demonstrated that I will default on loans? Do I have bad credit? Have I missed a single payment on my three outsourced government loans? No, and there's no case to be made based on an individual like me. The reason companies have to set aside profits to cut losses of theft, etc. often enough because they already keep so much. But if employees felt it was in their best interest to feed the company, they would protect its assets since they are commonly owned.
Why must I pay that man or woman back? I am not against the idea of debts on principle, I am not a religious man who generalizes about necessities etched in stone or in cosmic law. It is up to the "samaritan" whether I have to pay him back or not, that is the point of the parable in many ways. Others don't stop to help the man because they need no credit, but the Samaritan gives charity willingly and for free, and leaves the man without information for reuniting later.
Most of your comments make little sense. Indefinite means you don't know where it ends. School has a definite end--graduation. Nirvana, you'd say...which is extinguishing of the soul, which is Death. Enlightenment and knowledge require Life, attachment to the world where pleasures, etc. exist. This is what Buddha pointed out. I never mentioned money, have no value for money except that having some makes it so I don't have to worry about survival--in the one life I know I have.
YES THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM WITH CAPITALISM. Reducing decisions to self makes individuals participate in corruption because no individual can undo corruption. If my options are limited by that, choice is not some magic key. What did Krishna say to Arjuna? Do you come from India? I've studied abroad there, encountered all kinds of people on a spectrum of peddlers, gurus, and beggars. It's quite chaotic & lacking social infrastructure--religious doctrine is a superficial & expedient remedy.
it's not good when it's not clear why or if I'm in debt. The Samaritan who helped me is deserving payment because, and only because, his charity costs him what will keep him living well and preventing his own hardships. Gods need nothing from me, why would I have a debt to them? If karma only concerns getting us to treat one another well on Earth, why do we need gods to get involved? Secular humanism does a better job of setting priorities straight in social morality and awareness.
Please read your own responses to me before posting them, they are missing my points and contradicting yourself. "You study hard, sacrifice...and u get rewarded. Very simple." That is a pay back system. If bad choices are not met by direct punishment (if that's what you meant), then it still is a payback system because you get reincarnated as another species or caste in a vast hierarchy. An atheist can see through that, see the chain of rebirth in DNA and the poor creatures we live with.
No , Buddhism is not a way to escape reality . Buddha taught we have to face the harsh reality so we can find the way to solve it . People who live but alway dream after death , they can go to live happily in heavenly country of God , are those who want to escape reality
"The brain is more complex than the average computer" yes now, u didn't get the context - i said what if in the FUTURE computers get better & better & become superintelligent - will they develop consciousness? Wiill they be hurt, will they have feelings, will they know that they are but a box?
yes, I'm younger than you, no I'm not dumb enough not to know how debts work. Dollar bills are "legal tender" for debts, etc. But how? Do you believe law fundamentally comes from decree, or by democracy? Even in case of decree, it's enforced by a premise of democracy, that things could change if needed. My point on credit is u can have bonding relations without chains. I have $11K student loan debt, an unfair trade from an industry that pretends to reward creative research instead of obedience.
How do we come back though? What is it that comes back? To believe in a soul/atman that's reincarnated is to believe in supernatural mini-gods, a system of conserving & redistributing those units of conscious "energy" into bodies again. That is what Hinduism implies, and in Hinduism there are Gods which are all essentially one in Brahman. If I owe debt to society, I owe it to Brahman and a system that can't be reformed the way society can. Repaying debt to society is impossible for individuals.
contd...rewarded with a better society. A society that doesn't obey the law, doesn't help each other out, turn a blind eye to the crimes within their neighborhood, get burdened with a poverty Why some countries are rich & others poor is no mystery Why are two countries born at the same time - Pakistan & India are so divergent? India always had democracy, Pakistan is always fighting off dictators & generals - again no mystery here
The simple analogy of how corporations exploit workers, and how any capitalist does to some extent, is it works in the same way a street performer does. Have you seen one of those old fashioned accordion players who has a monkey on a rope, that dances to the music and holds out a cup for money? The monkey only receives enough payment for food, accordion player takes majority simply because it was his idea--accordion skills don't pay without a cute gimmick up front. As retail clerk I'm the monkey
My point about karma and the necessary implication that Brahma is allowing a continuous cycle of divine selection ties to your idea of law. If I break unjust laws, I make no contribution to poverty. India did not always have democracy, most of its history has been a change of empires. The British Empire didn't leave until 1949, from Gandhi's independence movement. Your mind is a mystery to me. Pakistan was born in that movement because of mutual religious intolerance between Muslims & Hindus.
The point of class is to prepare us for life. Life is not preparation for anything unless you worship Yahweh and believe in an afterlife. Being born with horrifying defects, into abusive homes, into war-torn societies, is not like a bad class. "Besotted" doesn't even belong in this conversation. If someone says something I hold them to it. Then you turn around and say I'm obsessed with something you say, but I only am to the extent that you said it was true. That is what being a skeptic means.
"you get reincarnated as another species or caste" you are reading too much into this - saying we get reincarnated into another species or caste is like saying someone is keeping score & dishing out punishment If you study, u will get good marks or grades & move on up. If you don't u get stuck, stay the same - there is no punishment except u lose out on Life, Enlightenment The Buddha said that if a society does good, help each other out, follow the rule of the law - see Japan - then they will be
No, Christians will say the same thing about their religion, that Easterners misinterpret it. That was what I was pointing out with God's opportunities for forgiveness--still, of debts I think are insane to begin with. Why would Bheeshma have to make a vow on his own part so his father could marry a fisherwoman? First of all, all religions have stories where their own rules are broken because God decides to grant a favor or deal. But the terms of that deal are loaded by God from the beginning.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I believe in zero gods, no sugar daddys to levy or repeal debts, no magic mountains in the distance. I make a point and you seem to respond to me as if the point was my finger. Running away never solves anything unless what you are running away from is uneccessary pain. But the basic point that you can't always run away is more of a Buddhist point. Either way, Hinduism and your opinions of me still seem entirely irrelevant in all of this.
It is here that you are on the path to Nirvana - sorry there is no graduation, I was speaking generally - Knowledge is a never ending path - Moksha is not a goal that one reaches, it is a Journey, a never ending Journey, with God as our Guide & fellow traveller Without Life you have Death - that's it There is nothing "out there" - it's either Life OR Death, that's it
You assume much about the one-sidedness of wisdom. I know who Adam Smith is, I have read his work, I own a copy of his theory of sentiments. I presume you've never read any other economist, or one who disagreed with him. I have also read Hayek, Marx, Schumpeter, the anthropologist David Graeber... It's common sense to show a debt of gratitude and make promises to repay the fees. But we're a long way off from where we started with your divine worldview of having to pay back for sins/karma.
If debts owed to people are similar to debts owed to companies, why do no companies offer their credit "forward"? The point is HOW insane profits are made, and who is actually indebted to who in the long run. I repeat, the basic critique Marx made (which is not refuted but ignored as acceptable by establishment economists). Greed is the leveraging of debt systems in power to your benefit. In what way do they sometimes "need" to make them? McDonalds was beyond rich ages before that lawsuit.
So there's no choice of changing how life goes? No freedom to have social relations, type of government we choose? No freedom to supersede religious laws w/ secular morality? Some gift. Not sure how you interpreted #3, but the point is simple: we are reincarnated until obedience in religious practice leads us, through reincarnations, to nirvana. That means each of those lives contain torture, moreso if you don't follow the rules. It could potentially go on forever, but so can Catholic purgatory.
How do you repay a "milk debt," repay your mother for raising you? How do you repay your favorite author for writing a book published before you were born? The concept of debt to society is only metaphor, we contribute to society but can't calculate the surplus good that comes from us all contributing. You're Hindu, correct? Brahman is no single thing, it's all things. If I owe debt to society, why not all nature? I'm not running from particular debts, just you taking them for granted.
My complaints are only half for myself. Your logic is simple, needed skills are rewarded, irrelevant skills are not rewarded and so the onus is on an individual to practice demanded skills. Hence there is more demand in a market for polishing a rich man's shop or dancing for money than doing work that applies to and lasts longer than one trend cycle. Your logic/morality begins and ends in the market. Tell me why tens of thousands of people work in (useless but profitable) reality TV.
No I am not, you are simply avoiding any other way to look at it. Who do I owe the debt to? people who buy and sell debt between firms that exchange it for pennies on the dollar. My debt isn't to one person who needs repayment, it's a bond to whatever firm wants to have my obedience. The point is it's also an unfair trade---have you never returned an item to a store for a refund? Debts have been cancelled in history with no negative outcome, especially when they are this type. Rollingjubilee,org
I need those people in the chain of things simply because I've been born into the middle of the situation. This says nothing about working conditions of any of those people along the chain, the coffee farmers who are underpaid by Starbucks for products sold at inflated prices to consumers. The fact that we need different jobs is a truism in society. What we're talking about is the nature of those relationships in society. You're stuck in the ahistorical drawing board of "I do this, you do that"
People are not cut and dry, pain does not conform to yours or anyone's vocabulary. This is the crux, the fundamental problem of all religions, their attempt to capture things in their vocabulary and presume this justifies judgments and re-packaging of nature. A criminal is someone who owes a "debt to society." Criminals arent born wholesale or created by evil spirits. Theyre often victims of delusions or responses to bad social conditions. Not always, but your generalizations exclude exceptions.
"It's common sense to show a debt of gratitude and make promises to repay the fees. But we're a long way off from where we started with your divine worldview of having to pay back for sins/karma"??? it's the same thing - all Hinduism is saying is that we need to pay back our debts, i don't see a problem with it Other religions teach that one can beg our way out - nice God will forgive Not Hinduism - we hold people accountable for thier mistakes & debts - i see it as somethig good
youre not seeing because its not a matter of principles, by which all kinds of relations can be manipulated. Problems with debt and capitalism are historical, experiential, they are not contained in speculation until you look back on experience and see how certain fundamental assumptions are problematic. The chain of debts is EXPEDIENT for trade, obviously useful and in some circumstances necessary but not as system. Those who control trade control producers, wage laborers, etc. Unequal debts.
The idea is that you owe a debt & u must pay it back even after death - the emphasis here is that you don't leave your creditors & those that u have given ur word with empty hands. Fact is, computers are getting better & better, but will the day come when a computer gets so intelligent that it will realize that it is just a box built by humans? I don't see it - that's the diff - we have a soul, we are conscious - we are more than a computer
So wise and handsome, way to go Sir Richard Gere. Great and happy to be a Buddhist. :)
Thank you Mr. Richard Gere for shedding light on Buddhism for our western friends. Only compassion and deep understand can bring peace and harmony to all sentient beings. Anger, violence and war will only bring suffering....we will get trap in darkness for years, lifetimes and eons.
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Mr Richard Gere you have done good looking for Buddhism. Thanks
Richard Gere has got a very good grasp of being a buddhist, I'm very very suprised!
So amazing to watch and thanks for sharing that with us 🙏🙏🙏
Wisdom is the key. then uncondtional love. then a huge dose of humour to round it off.
This melted my heart
Wonderful program
On this Buddhist path and like Richard began with Zen. It is the only practice that has brought stability to my life after years of confusion and suffering
As an Actor, also on a path, this is important to hear.
No matter what page or channel you go to on UA-cam. No matter what your watching whether its birds song on a meadow or race car driving. the comments made by people always end up being threatening and hateful. Now that really says a lot about us as fearful beings. lol
Cheers for the upload cavorland!
Buddhism form peaceful world🌏
This is not a religon this is mental medicine. this is just reality......sadly some people don't want reality. it is too much for them mentally.So they need something that will take them somewhere more "better" than this life. While they destroy their world. this is it....Embrace it.
buddhism is a great ideology but to say all people in thailand are buddhists is wrong because most are obsessed with material wealth like chinese.
I'm not a Buddhist but I like a lot of their teachings.
"How does one repay one's mother, teachers, for things they do" easy, you pay it forward
I am so thankful that I want it again & again. I have always loved animals but in this life am a banker - i dearly hope in my next life to be a Vet - work with animals every living day
Wow! That to me would be the ideal life
There is so much goodness to life but it won't land on top of our heads - we have to fight for it, make it happen
Such a wise man
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🌹🌹🌹🌺🌺🌺❤️❤️❤️
Èn nagyon tisztelem, hogy ő Buddhista!! Nagyon ragyogó¡! EmbE
Yes, I was raised by Catholics. For the past six years I've studied Buddhism & Hinduism, etc. I now have a degree in religious studies. Shiva and the other gods grant favors to people after "kalpas" of "tapas," thousands of years of spiritual suffering. It's little different from Christianity, only that for the Christian all this pain and atonement is squeezed into one lifetime instead of an indefinite chain of lives. The universe, in your belief, is run by karma. We have no choice in criteria.
May all beings be happy and secure
"torture" is only a state of mind because you were clinging to your ego, to what you think belong to you, to what you think suppose to hapend..it is about accepting and brought that experiences to positive one :)
INSPIRING!
Good richard🙏😔
Eres mas hermoso que el sol
paying forward is how credit systems work, which for most people I've encountered (my college town of Asheville is very East-oriented, as Albequerque is in New Mexico) is the idealized Western view of how Eastern wisdom works. Credit is not binding because it is forward-looking; debt is by definition past-oriented. Paying back is how debt works, paying forward is how salvation and revivalism works, values espoused by Christians and Buddhists.
YES they are saying the same thing. And what I have been saying this whole time is that if you insist that life is a blessing, as Christians also do, it comes loaded with the assumption that it is because it is given by God and that God's choice of how to give it to us is entirely justified by his own whims of how he wants to. If caste and species or general lot in life (amount of suffering) is not payback for sins or grace, it's an arbitrary situation which your God(s) is still responsible for.
You seem to answer your own question. If a computer is just a box, it has no component to feel, no way to sense loss if it has no delicate parts to lose. Though now with quantum computing it's becoming possible that someday a computer may eventually dawn on a sense of vulnerability & irony. I don't dream too much about that possibility, but we don't have a real definition of consciousness so there doesn't seem to be much reason to talk about it. Is a plant conscious, when it grows towards light?
"Is a plant conscious, when it grows towards light?" I don't know - we don't have all the answers - but from our own experience, there is more to us than mind & body, whether animals & plants have it is still being debated
this is really important there is no destinction between the good guys and the bad guys in this complex equation , why is it so ?
I am talking about the cost that the samaritan might have incurred by helping you - the hospital stay & any of the medicines, doctors treatment etc. These things need to be reimbursed & paid back
What Hinduism is saying is that even after such cost, if u end up dying before u get a chance to pay back the money, u must come back to repay
Now that you are an earning member - tell me, you have worked hard at your job, after the month is over, your company is indebted to you - how would you feel if they don't pay? They don't honor the debt? Now you are on the other side, you sing a diff tune?
"What purpose does academic research serve if it is not supposed to be an offering of grace to all society and future generations?" correct, but don't forget that research should not be based on altruism - the person who works hard & invents something that benefits everyone, should be rewarded - that is how capitalism works & it is the best system by far
show compassion show understanding they did it to us because we did it to them
its so simple compassion understanding then wisdom your blokes missed it but you got it i watched them boo you i will always remember and i will take your comments to death
My explanation is that we will be born in ALL ways! It is like being in class - one class we love, others we hate, one Teacher we love, others we may not like. Each & eveyr life will be like sitting in class - each & every life is teachig us something. U are so besotted with debt, u forgot the reason u sit in class
Tell me, why do u go to school? Sit in class? To pay off a debt?
Don't patronize me, I am an adult and I make a living, nobody else pays my bills. My point about student debt is it's a corrupt industry. The stock market is always a gamble, it doesn't promise you a career, it doesn't have bureaucratic marketing schemes that say one thing and practice another. I presented my research at conferences and did more work than virtually anyone else there. I've studied abroad, been stiffed, seen all kinds of things. The problem is systemic coercion, not personal debts
this is about realization. when that person realize what he she did was wrong, that is when she he was free, enlightenment :) That realization that what he she did was bad from the bottom of her his heart ad move forward from that make her his free...this is what i think about what Buddha teach..That is why do not act based on ill will, or hurting someone..The basic is that
Truth compared to fragility
...inner circle of academia where it was revealed that progress is secondary or even less important than keeping existing employment/power structures in place. This is the story in government and academics equally, both shaped by billions of dollars spent by corporate industries that make insane profits, commit fraud, and are merely taxed a small percentage of a year's profit for said fraud--and in that case only if it is visibly catastrophic to the lives of people on the ground, lower classes.
"U can't claim to present gifts, then turn around and demand debts" yes the gift is education, employment - then if u recieve such a gift, you are duty bound to pass it on - that's how you repay your teacher, it is not a one-to-one transaction
As for the good samaritan - it's just common sense - no problem in someone stopping & helping u to the hospital but some hospital demand payment before admitting even the heavily injured. If u are unconcious & the good samaritan pays the bill to admit u...
What if I miss opportunities to pay back debt, or don't even know if I'm in debt? What if I genuinely believe there's no reason for the debt I'm held to?
In Christianity the same optimism holds. God only demands immediate payments in the Old Testament, but Christians have split into a million directions on how God offers little ways to become intimate with him and dissolve debts. I think both systems of cosmic debt are insane. What could I possibly do that would put God at a disadvantage?
contd..understand if you don't repay. Basically then if he comes across a similar sitaution this time he may stay away. So, if next time u hear one of ur loved ones in a sticky situation but no one steps up to help, then u understand why
These things are not that complicated
contd...it's just common sense & a nice thing to do for you is to pay back the good samaritan the hospital bill that he paid
i would recommned taking an economics class - search on wikepedia on Adam Smith - they should have a condensed version on what he wrote - it is an eye-opener on what commerce really does
...example. What purpose does academic research serve if it is not supposed to be an offering of grace to all society and future generations? I received no payment for the research I did in college, but painstakingly spent years summarizing and following through arguments presented to me all through college and elsewhere. My payment would have been some career pathway or appreciation for that work that offered steps toward publishing. But only at the point of graduation was I allowed into the...
I have never said anything about stealing objects, we are talking about the general concept of debts which is problematic over time, by treating people as outsiders to a game of debt that they have to buy into and play well in order to survive among humans. It's purely transactional, and this creates myriad loopholes in actual practice (hence history) of something logicians call the fallacy of forced choice. Competition is the imaginary solution but you can't transcend if you are reactionary.
#1: It means we're held accountable according to standards that are ambiguous and interpreted by the upper class.
#2: What makes it a gift if we have no choice but to go through the whole thing (without memories), suffer and offer more and more devotion to Brahman until finally being snuffed out?
#3: The sadistic torture chamber is part of the gift of life; it's evolution, and lower species/social classes pay just as much as damned souls.
#4: "earn" according to unquestioned divine expectations.
Karma & Rebirth means We are ACCOUNTABLE for our actions. We take Responsibility.
Karma & Rebirth means that we enjoy the Gift of Life, over & over again!
Karma & Rebirth means there is no place for a Hell, no sadistic God running a torture chamber
Karma & Rebirth means that We EARN everything. A Hindu must never beg nor take anything that is unearned
Karma & Rebirth means we Hindus earn Praise FROM God! Anyone fool can praise God, but Blessed are the Hindus that aim to earn Praise FROM God!
The simplest way to explain it to someone who has not seen this for themselves or read anything about the history of worker rights, the problem of debts is the extent that most of the binding ones are dressed up in rhetoric that makes them all sound like personal debts when they actually originate from premises that are made up, namely property or knowledge ownership--property and knowledge are not always false claims, but 25+ year felony sentences for academic copyright infringement is an...
The thing about what I am saying is that it doesn't matter what they do, it matters what you do. YOU took the debt, YOU used the money, now YOU need to pay it back - it wasn't unfair when you were taking the money, now you have to pay it back, looks like u are looking for an excuse to get out of repaying the debt
"What if I miss opportunities to pay back debt, or don't even know if I'm in debt? What if I genuinely believe there's no reason for the debt I'm held to?" see that's the problem, u are so focused on this debt - u do not see the opportunity. It is like someone forces u to go work with animals in an animal shelter to pay off ur debt. U love it so much u forget about the debt, even when they say ur debt is paid off, u can go now, u beg to stay
See the opportunity here, not the debt
Whether it is one person or a hundred, a debt is a debt - you are an adult, you took the money or the service with open eyes - now it comes to repayment, how does paying it back to a corporation make a difference? If the debt owed is to your own father, you will be happy to pay but if it is a stranger that you don't like, you can weasel out?
That's the diff between Hinduism & other religions-for other religions, God, a 3rd party will make the decision. In Hinduism it is YOU - it is your decision
No I just like saying that
1:21...there is no me to be mine about...when you feel this like the Buddha does, the whole universe changes, nothing to protect, you want this, here take it
3:10...I really felt like these rescue workers, cops, firefighters, etc. were behaving like Bodhisattvas...they didn't say who are the good guys and bad guys here, they didn't care who was Jewish, Muslim, etc. they helped everybody even cats....
well, ma friend..if only you and i can read the book of karma, maybe we can understand all of this. Karma works in a complicated form but your way of dealing with it, it always up to you :) Don't stressing the world problem my friend, find a small thing you can do to your surrounding to make it a better place for all :D there, you can make your most impact
I think i posted this before, the story of Bheeshma the grand uncle of the Pandavas makes a terrible vow to stay celibate because that would allow his father to marry - the emperor - a Fisherwoman! There are many instances in Hindu texts of so-called lower castes marrying so-called upper castes
But we get selective readng from westerners, christians - who want to mock & abuse every religion that they run into & these seem to be ur guides
"Karma would say so" please Karma is NOT a spiritual pay back system. Karma means work, action. You study hard, sacrifice, put in the "work", Karma, & u get rewarded with good grades. Very simple - the idea got a bit distorted in the west
Yes life is harsh, life is difficult - so u latch on to some Sugar Daddy who will keep u in comfort
In fact, that's what a lot of people do in life - they find working hard for a living unappealing, so they find a Sugar Daddy - a rich guy & become his yes men or hit men
Is that what you aspire to become?
What Hinduism is saying is obvious - u have to work at life, yes, it is bad, but running away won't solve anything. A Quitter never wins
You're also not paying attention to the reason we got onto this long tangent out of this page. My response to you is over the notion that morality can be based on debts. A lawsuit is a process of levying a debt which is not contractual, it involves arguments that can be twisted to hurt either a company or an individual unfairly--but it renders debts, which you suggest countering by racking more debts in anxiety-fueled hording of reserve capital. Paying things "forward" doesn't enter this picture
Say someone dies without paying off his debts. In the christian or muslim religion, God will either make them pay or nicely forgive them & off they go enjoy!
In the Hindu faith, you have acquired bad Karma, it is YOUR Debt, YOU must pay it back, no begging or groveling or crying, no back door way out. Come back & repay - but that repayment is not forced - one will be given an opportunity to pay the debt back - one must watch out for it
contd...Life OR Death? Those who seek the pleasures of the flesh, the easy life choose Heaven & they get Death - Eternal Death
Hindus are blessed - we choose Life - Life is a Great Gift from God & we get to savor it over & over
"Life is not preparation for anything unless you worship Yahweh and believe in an afterlife. Being born with horrifying defects, into abusive homes, into war-torn societies, is not like a bad class" ah, I get you now. That's the carrot of religion, that's how they get you. Life is bad, life is harsh here, see that nice mountain waaaay over there? See how smooth it is? our mountain? see how craggy it is
Heaven is that far-away smooth mountain, a myth, a fantasy
contd..then that shirt would be shipped to shops - which means transportation - lorries, trains. Then in the shop u need lighting, salesmen, doors, windows, glass, cement - the govt must step in & lay roads. Finally the shirt lands on ur back but u may have used a credit card - just count the number of jobs in the whole process!
U needed the farmer, the workers making the fertilizer, workers making the tractor, drivers, middlemen, workers making cement, glass, doors, workers in the shirt factory
i obviously do not personally know about what you do or did in your life - my comments were based on what you posted, your feelings about debt owed to corporations
The problem is not the debt, it is the greedy corporation & their insane profits but sometimes they have to make them - u do know about the old lady who sued mcdonalds for the coffee being too hot?
Retail stores lose billions due to stolen merchandise - the costs of which they HAVE to pass on to the consumer
Your case for souls is an argument from ignorance: "I can't think of any other way to distinguish myself from a computer." The brain is more complex than the average computer, it doesn't have to have some ghostly thing in it. A computer can't compute irony, mostly because its not equipped to but evolved brains do--human and not human--because we've had to go thru millions of years of fear, hunting, survival, etc. which require irony and a combination of hypothetical imagination with experience.
Society runs on credit, debt is a hardened version that treats people with skepticism and less like equals. It's more necessary in some circumstances with certain people, but not as necessary as your politicians or religious leaders may lead you to believe. Giving my word means much to me, but if I promise you repayment and a tornado destroys all my possessions and my home the next day, how strictly will you still require payment? You are rigid in your thinking if there is no change.
I think at this point we have kicked this around & I am not sure we are moving forward much. I need you to become an adult, go out into the working world, earn a living, get stiffed by someone after u have done a lot of work for them to realize what I am talking about
"I have $11K student loan debt, an unfair trade from an industry that pretends" well, they didn't force u to get that debt. I had debt also about 30K - money lost in the stock market - took me about 6-8 years to pay it off
Your generalizations of East vs. West attitudes toward debt is also a caricature, especially in our internet age where nearly every possible combination of (often contradictory) religious views exists. Christians often do not believe in a forgiving God, millions believe His rules have been set out and we're indebted to him as the creator. "It's all plainly written in the Bible," fundamentalists say, and they are somewhat right. If you and I meet Yahweh after death we certainly have unpaid debts.
Why would the Samaritan go out of his way to help the man if he expected full repayment--there's money, time, knowledge that he employed. That's actually imposing a cost on the victim that because of a natural sense of mercy actually cost less to the Samartian to give than it would be to repay. If you describe Hinduism correctly, it contradicts how you described it earlier. Mercy, gifts, grace require no repayment by definition. U can't claim to present gifts, then turn around and demand debts.
Exploitation isn't removed from debt. Often exploitation is precisely leveraging debt aggressively against someone who you deem in debt. Jacked interest rates, for example, can happen with little to no reason.
I still hold you in debt of answering my questions: what makes Reality TV a useful enterprise to anyone? How does one repay one's mother, teachers, for things they do that are intrinsically altruistic--not as Ayn Rand would describe it, but as humans do with an expanded sense of "self".
"People like u" freethinkers?
Have I demonstrated that I will default on loans? Do I have bad credit? Have I missed a single payment on my three outsourced government loans? No, and there's no case to be made based on an individual like me. The reason companies have to set aside profits to cut losses of theft, etc. often enough because they already keep so much. But if employees felt it was in their best interest to feed the company, they would protect its assets since they are commonly owned.
Why must I pay that man or woman back? I am not against the idea of debts on principle, I am not a religious man who generalizes about necessities etched in stone or in cosmic law. It is up to the "samaritan" whether I have to pay him back or not, that is the point of the parable in many ways. Others don't stop to help the man because they need no credit, but the Samaritan gives charity willingly and for free, and leaves the man without information for reuniting later.
Most of your comments make little sense. Indefinite means you don't know where it ends. School has a definite end--graduation. Nirvana, you'd say...which is extinguishing of the soul, which is Death. Enlightenment and knowledge require Life, attachment to the world where pleasures, etc. exist. This is what Buddha pointed out. I never mentioned money, have no value for money except that having some makes it so I don't have to worry about survival--in the one life I know I have.
YES THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM WITH CAPITALISM. Reducing decisions to self makes individuals participate in corruption because no individual can undo corruption. If my options are limited by that, choice is not some magic key. What did Krishna say to Arjuna?
Do you come from India? I've studied abroad there, encountered all kinds of people on a spectrum of peddlers, gurus, and beggars. It's quite chaotic & lacking social infrastructure--religious doctrine is a superficial & expedient remedy.
it's not good when it's not clear why or if I'm in debt. The Samaritan who helped me is deserving payment because, and only because, his charity costs him what will keep him living well and preventing his own hardships. Gods need nothing from me, why would I have a debt to them? If karma only concerns getting us to treat one another well on Earth, why do we need gods to get involved? Secular humanism does a better job of setting priorities straight in social morality and awareness.
Please read your own responses to me before posting them, they are missing my points and contradicting yourself. "You study hard, sacrifice...and u get rewarded. Very simple." That is a pay back system. If bad choices are not met by direct punishment (if that's what you meant), then it still is a payback system because you get reincarnated as another species or caste in a vast hierarchy. An atheist can see through that, see the chain of rebirth in DNA and the poor creatures we live with.
It's a way to escape from reality.
No , Buddhism is not a way to escape reality . Buddha taught we have to face the harsh reality so we can find the way to solve it . People who live but alway dream after death , they can go to live happily in heavenly country of God , are those who want to escape reality
"The brain is more complex than the average computer" yes now, u didn't get the context - i said what if in the FUTURE computers get better & better & become superintelligent - will they develop consciousness? Wiill they be hurt, will they have feelings, will they know that they are but a box?
yes, I'm younger than you, no I'm not dumb enough not to know how debts work. Dollar bills are "legal tender" for debts, etc. But how? Do you believe law fundamentally comes from decree, or by democracy? Even in case of decree, it's enforced by a premise of democracy, that things could change if needed. My point on credit is u can have bonding relations without chains. I have $11K student loan debt, an unfair trade from an industry that pretends to reward creative research instead of obedience.
How do we come back though? What is it that comes back? To believe in a soul/atman that's reincarnated is to believe in supernatural mini-gods, a system of conserving & redistributing those units of conscious "energy" into bodies again. That is what Hinduism implies, and in Hinduism there are Gods which are all essentially one in Brahman. If I owe debt to society, I owe it to Brahman and a system that can't be reformed the way society can. Repaying debt to society is impossible for individuals.
VOCE FALA EM ESPANHOL
contd...rewarded with a better society. A society that doesn't obey the law, doesn't help each other out, turn a blind eye to the crimes within their neighborhood, get burdened with a poverty
Why some countries are rich & others poor is no mystery
Why are two countries born at the same time - Pakistan & India are so divergent? India always had democracy, Pakistan is always fighting off dictators & generals - again no mystery here
The simple analogy of how corporations exploit workers, and how any capitalist does to some extent, is it works in the same way a street performer does. Have you seen one of those old fashioned accordion players who has a monkey on a rope, that dances to the music and holds out a cup for money? The monkey only receives enough payment for food, accordion player takes majority simply because it was his idea--accordion skills don't pay without a cute gimmick up front. As retail clerk I'm the monkey
My point about karma and the necessary implication that Brahma is allowing a continuous cycle of divine selection ties to your idea of law. If I break unjust laws, I make no contribution to poverty. India did not always have democracy, most of its history has been a change of empires. The British Empire didn't leave until 1949, from Gandhi's independence movement. Your mind is a mystery to me. Pakistan was born in that movement because of mutual religious intolerance between Muslims & Hindus.
The point of class is to prepare us for life. Life is not preparation for anything unless you worship Yahweh and believe in an afterlife. Being born with horrifying defects, into abusive homes, into war-torn societies, is not like a bad class.
"Besotted" doesn't even belong in this conversation. If someone says something I hold them to it. Then you turn around and say I'm obsessed with something you say, but I only am to the extent that you said it was true. That is what being a skeptic means.
"you get reincarnated as another species or caste" you are reading too much into this - saying we get reincarnated into another species or caste is like saying someone is keeping score & dishing out punishment
If you study, u will get good marks or grades & move on up. If you don't u get stuck, stay the same - there is no punishment except u lose out on Life, Enlightenment
The Buddha said that if a society does good, help each other out, follow the rule of the law - see Japan - then they will be
No, Christians will say the same thing about their religion, that Easterners misinterpret it. That was what I was pointing out with God's opportunities for forgiveness--still, of debts I think are insane to begin with. Why would Bheeshma have to make a vow on his own part so his father could marry a fisherwoman? First of all, all religions have stories where their own rules are broken because God decides to grant a favor or deal. But the terms of that deal are loaded by God from the beginning.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I believe in zero gods, no sugar daddys to levy or repeal debts, no magic mountains in the distance. I make a point and you seem to respond to me as if the point was my finger. Running away never solves anything unless what you are running away from is uneccessary pain. But the basic point that you can't always run away is more of a Buddhist point. Either way, Hinduism and your opinions of me still seem entirely irrelevant in all of this.
It is here that you are on the path to Nirvana - sorry there is no graduation, I was speaking generally - Knowledge is a never ending path - Moksha is not a goal that one reaches, it is a Journey, a never ending Journey, with God as our Guide & fellow traveller
Without Life you have Death - that's it
There is nothing "out there" - it's either Life OR Death, that's it
You assume much about the one-sidedness of wisdom. I know who Adam Smith is, I have read his work, I own a copy of his theory of sentiments. I presume you've never read any other economist, or one who disagreed with him. I have also read Hayek, Marx, Schumpeter, the anthropologist David Graeber... It's common sense to show a debt of gratitude and make promises to repay the fees. But we're a long way off from where we started with your divine worldview of having to pay back for sins/karma.
If debts owed to people are similar to debts owed to companies, why do no companies offer their credit "forward"?
The point is HOW insane profits are made, and who is actually indebted to who in the long run. I repeat, the basic critique Marx made (which is not refuted but ignored as acceptable by establishment economists). Greed is the leveraging of debt systems in power to your benefit. In what way do they sometimes "need" to make them? McDonalds was beyond rich ages before that lawsuit.
So there's no choice of changing how life goes? No freedom to have social relations, type of government we choose? No freedom to supersede religious laws w/ secular morality? Some gift.
Not sure how you interpreted #3, but the point is simple: we are reincarnated until obedience in religious practice leads us, through reincarnations, to nirvana. That means each of those lives contain torture, moreso if you don't follow the rules. It could potentially go on forever, but so can Catholic purgatory.
How do you repay a "milk debt," repay your mother for raising you? How do you repay your favorite author for writing a book published before you were born? The concept of debt to society is only metaphor, we contribute to society but can't calculate the surplus good that comes from us all contributing.
You're Hindu, correct? Brahman is no single thing, it's all things. If I owe debt to society, why not all nature? I'm not running from particular debts, just you taking them for granted.
My complaints are only half for myself. Your logic is simple, needed skills are rewarded, irrelevant skills are not rewarded and so the onus is on an individual to practice demanded skills. Hence there is more demand in a market for polishing a rich man's shop or dancing for money than doing work that applies to and lasts longer than one trend cycle. Your logic/morality begins and ends in the market. Tell me why tens of thousands of people work in (useless but profitable) reality TV.
No I am not, you are simply avoiding any other way to look at it. Who do I owe the debt to? people who buy and sell debt between firms that exchange it for pennies on the dollar. My debt isn't to one person who needs repayment, it's a bond to whatever firm wants to have my obedience. The point is it's also an unfair trade---have you never returned an item to a store for a refund? Debts have been cancelled in history with no negative outcome, especially when they are this type. Rollingjubilee,org
I need those people in the chain of things simply because I've been born into the middle of the situation. This says nothing about working conditions of any of those people along the chain, the coffee farmers who are underpaid by Starbucks for products sold at inflated prices to consumers. The fact that we need different jobs is a truism in society. What we're talking about is the nature of those relationships in society. You're stuck in the ahistorical drawing board of "I do this, you do that"
People are not cut and dry, pain does not conform to yours or anyone's vocabulary. This is the crux, the fundamental problem of all religions, their attempt to capture things in their vocabulary and presume this justifies judgments and re-packaging of nature.
A criminal is someone who owes a "debt to society." Criminals arent born wholesale or created by evil spirits. Theyre often victims of delusions or responses to bad social conditions. Not always, but your generalizations exclude exceptions.
"It's common sense to show a debt of gratitude and make promises to repay the fees. But we're a long way off from where we started with your divine worldview of having to pay back for sins/karma"??? it's the same thing - all Hinduism is saying is that we need to pay back our debts, i don't see a problem with it
Other religions teach that one can beg our way out - nice God will forgive
Not Hinduism - we hold people accountable for thier mistakes & debts - i see it as somethig good
youre not seeing because its not a matter of principles, by which all kinds of relations can be manipulated. Problems with debt and capitalism are historical, experiential, they are not contained in speculation until you look back on experience and see how certain fundamental assumptions are problematic. The chain of debts is EXPEDIENT for trade, obviously useful and in some circumstances necessary but not as system. Those who control trade control producers, wage laborers, etc. Unequal debts.
The idea is that you owe a debt & u must pay it back even after death - the emphasis here is that you don't leave your creditors & those that u have given ur word with empty hands. Fact is, computers are getting better & better, but will the day come when a computer gets so intelligent that it will realize that it is just a box built by humans? I don't see it - that's the diff - we have a soul, we are conscious - we are more than a computer