prindy 14- It’s been said that Dr. Manhattan is the one that “pushed” Barry to “make” Flashpoint I agree with that because there is no real way he could have done it which in turn creates The New 52.
Honestly the way everything turned out in rebirth and everything after dark knights metal and no justice, the timeline isn't needed. Just knowing that everything after those 2 events is the direction of all the comics.
This is why Crisis of Infinite Earths happened. The multiverse confuses everything and nobody (not the readers, writers or executives) knows where everything fits in. As I read a new comic, my thoughts always go towards “which universe does this fit in?” Yeah, sure, there are 52 universes in this new multiverse and they’ve touched on many of them, but not all of them. They shouldn’t have capped them at 52. That way they could put stories together that go together, instead of leaving things the mess that they are.
My guess is that Rebirth, because of the whole "time was stolen" thing, caused some really wierd, Doctor Who style, timey-wimey... thing. All parts of time happened, but some parts were never experienced. Despite that, some people remember the things they never experienced because it still happened. Kinda like Deja-Vu. You remember something having happened, even if it hasn't yet.
Yeah, like the old school Teen Titans happened. Wally I West was the Barry's first sidekick. But Iris' visions about her wedding with Barry and her children didn't happened, are just Flashpoint's remnants
Rebirth kicked things off as a prologue. I'm guessing that when the Doomsday Clock run is over, we'll get some sort of new understanding / change in the DCU. This would be the time to fix things.
@@tomleonard830 it won't make things better, it makes even worse because you have two wally west on one earth, i'm pretty sure the specter should have come by right now
I think it would be cool to see a single series or even novel from an outside perspective of one character who has been through it all just filling in the missing pieces and giving a clear definitive perspective on everything that has happened
I remember what a nightmare it was to get into comics via Batman a few years ago. The recommendations I got were so contradictory that I just winded up buying three collections from different time frames: Year One, Hush and The Return of Bruce Wayne. After that, I got wise and just bought New52. Now, I just recommend recent series that I know my friends will like the atmosphere of.
Yep. I got into DC with the New 52. I loved it, but I went back to reading the old stuff and realized just how crazy and unprepared the whole thing really was. I love DC, but they really put themselves in a corner and just go into a panic for things they can easily fix.
Lol yea it's weird, I'm a big Starfire fan and I actually liked new 52 Starfire. Very sexy yes, but actually a complex character with a good healthy relationship with arsenal. But in the Starfire solo series she acts completely different and doesn't seem to have the 52, history. Even blackfire seems different. In rebirth she seems more similar to new 52 version. So yeah feels like they pick and choose which history happened depending on how much it was liked. And since ppl seem to think new 52 Starfire was a hollow character so that history with the Outlaws doesn't exist
I like all your videos in general. But this one is so thought provoking, with great back & forth w/o stepping over, this is easily 1 of my faves. Thanks!!
This conversation about continuity just took like an hour... my point... the real problem with comics and why it’s so hard to get people into comics IS continuity. Continuity is the Achilles Heal of the American comic book
Wrong! Imo the Achilies Heel is cause now their FREE & there's To MANY, Like 8 Bat titles, to many Avngrs titles & also Its People getting their comics FOR FREE! Right Here & elsewhere Online. All of which devalues comics in general.
5 Fold Understanding, I don’t know if I would agree with there being too many because that’s kinda redundant to point out and I feel like that aspect could be better explained by the massive continuity, but I definitely won’t argue with you on your second point. However social media is kinda the Achilles Heal for everything. Plus there are still reasons to go buy hard copies, a lot of people are just into the novelty of having the paper backs, single issues, graphic novels, etc. But your point still stands, and that’s why I think now you’re seeing both DC and Marvel move to there own digital media services. If comic books are going to stay alive then they are going to need to get easier for average people to get into. The two ways you do that... start making stories that can gain critical acclaim on their own merit, that don’t rely on other stories to make sense (fixing your continuity problem)...(DC BLACK LABEL 🧐) and move to digital media so that people can get their comics instantly just like all their other books, and shows. It is truly the digital age everything and everyone that doesn’t want to get left behind needs to hop on the wagon and quick.
Its cool if you know it all though. Having the longest real world time connected universe every written in Fictional history is a pretty cool achievement.
I thought about this about 8 months ago catching up on some Batman comics. I like to think fans can pick and choose some of the events that happened. You can choose your own events depending on what story you are reading. Obviously some of the events are more concrete points in the universe.
Bascially its the New52/rebirth timeline. They just adding things they need from the pre52 timeline and say it happened here also. There alot of hints to this and it makes the most sense. This is how i see it and everything that comes now makes perfect sense to me
i think dc struck gold with rebirth and metal. it really gives them a chance to choose what they want to keep in continuity and also make new stories like sideways and silencer. its really remarkable. now i can't wait for the new young justice comics.
I was born in '71. I'm a second generation comic book reader, both my parents did read comics (both Marvel and DC); but that's not a guarantee to be a reader too. What hooked me into comics wasn't "fresh starts" or "understanding everything that was happening", just the opposite. I met, face to face, with a world that extended wide in time and space, connected... stories inside a History. Independent stories can be great, like in Elseworlds and similar stuff, but I can't live reading just that. But if you did read and really enjoy Robinson's Starman as I did, you understand me.
I think that when they do another reboot, they should only have one title per character, and then when the Justice League is formed, all of the titles for those characters are either cancelled, or they have a different protagonist
I like your idea on an "The End" where they could end the pre-52 storylines. I always thought that DC and Marvel should reboot like every 10 -15 years where the heroes age along with the sidekicks. Spiderman gets married and have kid and the issue of being Spiderman and being Father. Superman age a little and Connor Kent slowly taking the mantle where there are 2 Superman. Bruce aging and has to choose his predecessor. People die where others keep living. I would love to see Marvel and DC do this then they keep have a huge universe problem where things have to get rebooted.
I miss the Else Worlds Era, Superman being raised like Tarzan, Gotham By Gaslight, those are the ones that stuck in my mind, but I would love more of those stories. On another note, what about Joker as an Ultraviolet Lantern..... scary.
I really like New 52 a lot. I liked the new take on Superman and Wonder Woman and I liked Superman's costume. I just missed Connor Kent in the new 52. Although Rebirth is good.
The lack of continuity is largely what has kept me from reading DC. I really enjoyed Sinestro Corps War/War of Light/Darkest Night/Brightest Day, but everything else has been really confusing to me. Like where in the timeline does Dark Nights Metal take place, especially in regards to Doomsday Clock.
I think DC rebirth doesn't seem to have a timeline at least not yet anyways but I think DC is using a lot of Hypertime which Hypertime is like the DC multiverse except its where EVERY story ever made in DC's history exists and they can pull from it because I believe in rebirth like in dark knights metal they referenced hyoertime....idk I could be wrong.
I think there HAS to be a definitive timeline (maybe not hard-line, but there's always our own headcanons lol) in DCs' main universe, because of several reasons: - The constant crises and retcon would be completely rendered obselete. After all, Rebirth fixed a lot of the issues with the New 52, so if there's no timeline, why bother? - Eaglemoss are currently publishing a "Legends of Batman" graphic novel series, which is collecting a ton of well-known and obscure stories into a chronological order, both stories are Pre-Final Crisis and New 52 (not sure if they'll do the same with Rebirth). These two reasons pretty much make me refuse the idea of a lack of a timeline. Also, Marvel needs their own Rebirth, BADLY lol
honestly the only DCYOU book i liked was superman lois and clark series which gave us Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy who is so awesome and adorable and that was about it, all of the other DCYOU books were so boring and useless in my opinion that i was so happy with DC rebirth gave us back the real wally west flash which made me so happy and now that he's gone i am worried for the future of DC rebirth.
I don't mind an idea of no timeline, except that DC continues to have huge events in which the whole universe is involved somehow. If there is no timeline, then each book should just have its own timeline and events should happen in isolation. If tie-ins need to happen, make them special issues like annuals are special issues. I don't think it is fair to readers to have a timeline and not have a timeline at the same time, especially if they are readers who like following characters in different books, like reading JL and JLD because Wonder Woman is in it. If those books were stated to be isolated, then we could choose to fit them into the timeline as we wished.
+Comicstorian here's an insane out of my ass theory: - Darkseid's motherbox is given the ability of time travel. - Travels to Earth and takes Vandal Savage's immortality. - Further back in time and tricks the Guardians of the Universe and absorbs the power battery. - Possesses all the new Forces, no strain due to immortality. - Travels to his own past and fights alongside himself. - Due to multiple aberrations, Rebirth, New 52, & old continuity combine. Rebirth is able to bring in old continuity.
Also the new bendis line is called wonder comics which has Young justice featuring Tim drake robin Bart Allen Impulse and finally the return of Conner Kent superboy and Cassie sandsmark wonder girl also we are getting the return of the wonder twins within this new wonder comics line
I'd be interested in seeing DC do an Ultimates style run. An alternate/parallel universe/timeline and just completely reinvent everything. Just jump right into it each character with Parallel [Character Name] #1 and then every so often do #-1 and #-2 etcetera and through the character's history backwards.
I think the simple answer to the question is no, DC has no timeline. However, a non simple is yes, we just don't completely know what that timeline is. Because of Hypertime, everything kinda happened, but the Hypertimeline the main DC Universe seems to exist in has been created thanks to the machinations of Doctor Manhattan, & because of that there is a timeline. But what is on that timeline? I have no fucking clue. Take Batman for example (btw check out The Real Batman Chronology Project for the best possible Batman timeline in The New 52 & Rebirth timelines, as well as Pre-Crisis Earth 2 & Earth 1 timelines & Post-Crisis, Pre-Flashpoint timeline). Batman's origin isn't even concrete anymore. Between Crisis On Infinite Earths & Flashpoint, Year One was THE Batman origin. Then The New 52 overwrote it with Zero Year, which has been the canon origin ever since until recently with Peter J. Tomasi's current Detective Comics run, which seems to ignore Zero Year & re-cement Year One as the current origin. Tom King's current Batman run confusingly seems to have Zero Year & Year One having both happened at once, despite that not making sense, as they contradict each other in several major ways. Questions like "What is Two-Face's origin?" & "Which different costumes did Batman wear?" are interesting to think about, but will probably never have an answer. There is & isn't a timeline. So really it just comes down to your personal headcanon.
Since you guys are the so called experts on comic books from this discussion it seems there isn’t one and they are just throwing ideas at a wall. I agree with Sal I LOVE continuity.
I personally think that the best stories for DC are those that don't have to fit in continuity: Superman Red Son, Injustice, the Dark Night Returns,...
They can still do Dc the end series. But it would have to be after Dr. Manhattan restores their memories. And then we get to see them remember what happened just before Manhattan wiped their minds.
As a kid I wasn’t really allowed to just sit and watch tv and I wasn’t into comics cause I thought it was all anime type dbz and I’m not a fan of that stuff but it wasn’t until I was about 18-19 I’m 24 now that I got into that stuff so here I am now really getting into comics and hero’s and I just really want to say thank you to Comicstorian Comicsexplained I know I’m years late but this has been the best like 6mo catching up on literally everything I couldn’t be more happy honestly thank you guy so much man 🤝🏾🤝🏾
I'd love a definitive clean continuity but for the most part I take each story I'm reading and take whatever continuity it's telling me exists as what I need to know to understand and get or enjoy that story. For the most part I have my own head canon for continuity because it's just as legitimate as what Marvel and DC have established by not having something coherent and clean. I absolutely love Cosmic Ghost Rider and I don't like Fank Castle or Ghost Rider in general. I don't care how or where or why or when anything that happens in that book or in the previous Thanos run interacts or means for the rest of the universe and characters referenced in it. If another book came out next week that dealt with the same point in time as that book takes place and in the same universe and it contradicts everything about it that wouldn't be how I decide if I like that story. I think we all need to realize that as much as we like this stuff for creative reasons at the end of the day it's a business that needs to sell and make money and they have to take care of that as priority #1 and everything else comes second.
Im with you.. i feel like thats who dr. Manhattan sees punching him before everytging goes black... the old "retroactive continuity punch" from good ol SuperBoy Prime.... gonna hit him so hard that everything Manhattan did is undone and all the dead heroes will return.
I actually got into comics because my local library had some new 52 floppies for green lantern, green arrow, and batman. Then my first event was the throne of atlantis.
Snyder's Swamp Thing was awesome. Accidentally bought the first one in a batch of Cable comics. My only exposure to Swamp Thing before this was a bad movie I saw as a kid. Thankful that I decided to read it.
Captain Atom was supposed to be Monarch, and it leaked out, so they made Hawk Monarch(In Armageddon) fans got upset because Wave Rider had already visited Hawk and Dove both, and said in all possible futures they had fought Monarch.
I like the idea of a "THE END" event where everything gets hard reset, but knowing DC like I do, there will be some continuity leakage neccesitating another reboot in 5-10 years. I would rather they do a time jump like with 52, except longer so that we are now dealing with the next generation of heroes, but not so far that the existing heroes are not still out there in semi-retirement. For me the big problem is that allow some characters to age and evolve while keeping Superman, Batman and a few others perpetually around the same age (35-ish) And because they are not allowed to age, we are stuck with all the in-continuity events being squished into a 5-10 year time line. I want to see Dick become Batman. I want to see Jonathan become Superman. I want to see Donna / Cassie become Wonder Woman. And I want this to stick for more than a storyline or two. And this requires that we allow the timeline to progress - if Bruce has only been batman for 10-15 years perpetually, of course he'll never permenantly retire. But if time actually progresses and he's been Batman for 30 years, then we get to see that happen.
I like to think of it as different universes in a multiverse... Year one The man who laughs Long halloween Dark victory Catwoman when in rome Robin and batgirl year one New 52 Rebirth
Benny, did you do a video on the Green Arrow story arc "Quiver"? If not could you or would you do one? It was a great story and involved many of DC's best. And I do get that it comes down to profit margin and popularity or continuity. Keep up the good work.
when comes to time lines in Comics it very subjective. Things change and there's no getting around that I have seen that in everything I love. It can be bit pain butt when it comes old school vs New school. In some circles this is very toxic but can be positive too. When it comes down to it.. what matters to the reader is what goes. Otherwise nothing has any meaning at all. To me it all relevant even crazy cross over with looney toons or other stuff.
Also i meant to add this is one of the best conversations about comics in a while. Not a dig at anything or anyone, just showd how much i liked this one.
I think both of the theories are right although I think they had/have plan or timeline but because of the doomsday clock delay they are trying to fill in the blanks or whatever with new stories and events
@@maymay5600 oh i get that I'm just saying with them picking and choosing what they're keeping in continuity from new 52 and some characters keeping their memories and the new 52 supes coming back, it just seems like they're rolling things over instead of completely rebooting the universe.
As someone just getting into DC comics, I am just relieved that I am not the only one not making sense of the timeline as a whole, I just am reading a few events and side characters that I like right now. And if anyone happens to read this comment, can you let me know why is Mera part of the Justice League now?
My issue is w/ the whole perpetuia debacle. Did Flashpoint by all technicality create perpetua and Perpetua create the new 52? In other words was perpetua always there, in the source wall? Because if not, theres a whole can of mythos that they could explore considering they just announced that the old pre crisis on infinite earths multiverse still exists.
Love sal and his gang check out his page they got alot of good stuff love comicstorian and his gang alot but these guys got nothing on comicpop highly underrated
The problem is simple. Too many people write DC Comics stories. If there was a main writer for stories like Justice League and then a main writer for each individual comic like Batman, Flash etc then we'd be fine. But there are countless people who write stories on Batman, Flash, Justice League and all that
I'm prettty sure they were gonna make Rip Hunter turn into waverider in Legends but changed their mind. They had some weird thing where Rip loves the ship and the ship loves him, I thought they were gonna have them merge and he'd become waverider
So 4 years off and we (I) still have more questions. So Perpetua, was she ALWAYS there in DC mythos during like, the golden age of heroes/ comics? Before Crisis on infinite earths and Flashpoint? Cause now that DC is doing its soft reboot of sorts, they could really look into the mythos of the pre crisis on infinite earths universe, especially since they just recently established that it still exists. Thats years worth of stories right there with infinite possibilities to make shit canon. Would explain the "everything is canon" mentality.
I don't even know what's going on. I wish I could know where to start to understand the DC universe. There are so many comics, so many series, so many movies. Where to start?
No,like in the DC Universe,we saw in Harley Quinn,I believe 50 or 51,we saw her breaking the continuity and I believe her editor came in and had to stop the while mess ,also later we saw her going through the editorial staff (as DC pins with faces on top of them).So it basically confirms that the editors try their best to keep everything in check.
I started with borrowing Graphic Novels from my library, But i didn't really dive into comics tell Rebirth/Dark Metal and after Marvel Secret War Jane Thor, Wolverine X23 and Ms Marvel
I feel like the plan got lost as soon as Johns stepped down. The same old guard took over that was in charge that has the same old plans that they have been pushing down our throats for years, that we have fully lost the taste for. I feel johns fully had his finger on the pulse and knew what we the readers wanted and fought for that. I like to compare this scenario to the WWE. Vince is so out if touch with reality and keeps pushing what he wants and clearly sees what the fans don't want, yet does it anyway. DC is doing the exact same thing, They just want what they want and that'f the final say.
Barry messed up the timeline so bad it takes a college degree to explain it.
TO THE TOP WITH THIS COMMENT!
Barry did not doc manhattan did
*Doctor Manhatten
@@clarkkentwithglasses4759 No, Barry still did, Nd its what prompted manhattan to experiment with it
prindy 14- It’s been said that Dr. Manhattan is the one that “pushed” Barry to “make” Flashpoint I agree with that because there is no real way he could have done it which in turn creates The New 52.
Honestly the way everything turned out in rebirth and everything after dark knights metal and no justice, the timeline isn't needed. Just knowing that everything after those 2 events is the direction of all the comics.
At 48 seconds I dipped cause rob was gone
I'm sure I'm single in every timeline.
Agnel me too bro
me three
Wierd flex but ok
Zaim Hilmi that meme has to die soon 😑
Agnel i think theres at least one timeline where im with my ex without all the crazy mental disorder stuff
This is why Crisis of Infinite Earths happened. The multiverse confuses everything and nobody (not the readers, writers or executives) knows where everything fits in. As I read a new comic, my thoughts always go towards “which universe does this fit in?” Yeah, sure, there are 52 universes in this new multiverse and they’ve touched on many of them, but not all of them. They shouldn’t have capped them at 52. That way they could put stories together that go together, instead of leaving things the mess that they are.
My guess is that Rebirth, because of the whole "time was stolen" thing, caused some really wierd, Doctor Who style, timey-wimey... thing. All parts of time happened, but some parts were never experienced. Despite that, some people remember the things they never experienced because it still happened. Kinda like Deja-Vu. You remember something having happened, even if it hasn't yet.
Yeah, like the old school Teen Titans happened. Wally I West was the Barry's first sidekick. But Iris' visions about her wedding with Barry and her children didn't happened, are just Flashpoint's remnants
Rebirth kicked things off as a prologue. I'm guessing that when the Doomsday Clock run is over, we'll get some sort of new understanding / change in the DCU. This would be the time to fix things.
@@tomleonard830 it won't make things better, it makes even worse because you have two wally west on one earth, i'm pretty sure the specter should have come by right now
@@maymay5600 Heroes in Crisis took care of the two Wally Wests problem.
@@tomleonard830 HE'LL COME BACK I KNOW HE WILL (don't let the tears get to you DON'T LET THEM)
I think it would be cool to see a single series or even novel from an outside perspective of one character who has been through it all just filling in the missing pieces and giving a clear definitive perspective on everything that has happened
I remember what a nightmare it was to get into comics via Batman a few years ago. The recommendations I got were so contradictory that I just winded up buying three collections from different time frames: Year One, Hush and The Return of Bruce Wayne. After that, I got wise and just bought New52. Now, I just recommend recent series that I know my friends will like the atmosphere of.
Yep. I got into DC with the New 52. I loved it, but I went back to reading the old stuff and realized just how crazy and unprepared the whole thing really was. I love DC, but they really put themselves in a corner and just go into a panic for things they can easily fix.
DC Comics: Space is warped and Time is bendable.
Lol yea it's weird, I'm a big Starfire fan and I actually liked new 52 Starfire. Very sexy yes, but actually a complex character with a good healthy relationship with arsenal. But in the Starfire solo series she acts completely different and doesn't seem to have the 52, history. Even blackfire seems different. In rebirth she seems more similar to new 52 version. So yeah feels like they pick and choose which history happened depending on how much it was liked. And since ppl seem to think new 52 Starfire was a hollow character so that history with the Outlaws doesn't exist
Starfire's history with the Outlaws still exist from New52. This was confirmed in Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #2
I like all your videos in general. But this one is so thought provoking, with great back & forth w/o stepping over, this is easily 1 of my faves. Thanks!!
The glow about Benny is definitely the pregnancy.
Ballz Diggity 🧐HMMMMMMMM
Every time I try to watch an explanation of one of the comics, and they bring up rebirth, and reboots and stuff, I always get lost.
I loved the way batman talked about his belief and thoughts on God.
@@Charziken909 it's in the batman playlist it was just uploaded about a week ago.
What story was that?
@@aidanlavin8211 Batman cold days.
@@shaquilleexavier2613 he is kinda narcissistic now tho.
@666LaVey666 You think you sound deep and insightful, but you just sound pretentious and foolish. You cretin. You absolute idiot.
You guys do a really good job bouncing ideas off off each other. Another great episode.
This conversation about continuity just took like an hour... my point... the real problem with comics and why it’s so hard to get people into comics IS continuity. Continuity is the Achilles Heal of the American comic book
Wrong! Imo the Achilies Heel is cause now their FREE & there's To MANY, Like 8 Bat titles, to many Avngrs titles & also Its People getting their comics FOR FREE! Right Here & elsewhere Online. All of which devalues comics in general.
5 Fold Understanding, I don’t know if I would agree with there being too many because that’s kinda redundant to point out and I feel like that aspect could be better explained by the massive continuity, but I definitely won’t argue with you on your second point. However social media is kinda the Achilles Heal for everything. Plus there are still reasons to go buy hard copies, a lot of people are just into the novelty of having the paper backs, single issues, graphic novels, etc. But your point still stands, and that’s why I think now you’re seeing both DC and Marvel move to there own digital media services. If comic books are going to stay alive then they are going to need to get easier for average people to get into. The two ways you do that... start making stories that can gain critical acclaim on their own merit, that don’t rely on other stories to make sense (fixing your continuity problem)...(DC BLACK LABEL 🧐) and move to digital media so that people can get their comics instantly just like all their other books, and shows. It is truly the digital age everything and everyone that doesn’t want to get left behind needs to hop on the wagon and quick.
I think the biggest problem is that the publishers themselves don't give us any official timelines.
Commander Spyder nah I doubt that would help.
Its cool if you know it all though. Having the longest real world time connected universe every written in Fictional history is a pretty cool achievement.
I thought about this about 8 months ago catching up on some Batman comics. I like to think fans can pick and choose some of the events that happened. You can choose your own events depending on what story you are reading. Obviously some of the events are more concrete points in the universe.
Bascially its the New52/rebirth timeline. They just adding things they need from the pre52 timeline and say it happened here also. There alot of hints to this and it makes the most sense. This is how i see it and everything that comes now makes perfect sense to me
i think dc struck gold with rebirth and metal. it really gives them a chance to choose what they want to keep in continuity and also make new stories like sideways and silencer. its really remarkable. now i can't wait for the new young justice comics.
the new green lantern run is awesome too
This is was an amazing conversation and discussion about comics and the comic book industry 👏 👏 👏
I was born in '71. I'm a second generation comic book reader, both my parents did read comics (both Marvel and DC); but that's not a guarantee to be a reader too. What hooked me into comics wasn't "fresh starts" or "understanding everything that was happening", just the opposite. I met, face to face, with a world that extended wide in time and space, connected... stories inside a History. Independent stories can be great, like in Elseworlds and similar stuff, but I can't live reading just that. But if you did read and really enjoy Robinson's Starman as I did, you understand me.
I think that when they do another reboot, they should only have one title per character, and then when the Justice League is formed, all of the titles for those characters are either cancelled, or they have a different protagonist
Benny I just want to thank you for this channel you have made comics more popular. Hope become as big as pewdiepie
Comicstorian AND ComicPop together! Be still my heart!
I like your idea on an "The End" where they could end the pre-52 storylines. I always thought that DC and Marvel should reboot like every 10 -15 years where the heroes age along with the sidekicks. Spiderman gets married and have kid and the issue of being Spiderman and being Father. Superman age a little and Connor Kent slowly taking the mantle where there are 2 Superman. Bruce aging and has to choose his predecessor. People die where others keep living. I would love to see Marvel and DC do this then they keep have a huge universe problem where things have to get rebooted.
Marvel: let's make our time travel make sense
DC: flash point paradox
I think time travel "rules" in Flashpoint makes more sense than the ones in Endgame(if that's what you're talking about)
I miss the Else Worlds Era, Superman being raised like Tarzan, Gotham By Gaslight, those are the ones that stuck in my mind, but I would love more of those stories.
On another note, what about Joker as an Ultraviolet Lantern..... scary.
Red Son
Vampire batman
I really like New 52 a lot. I liked the new take on Superman and Wonder Woman and I liked Superman's costume. I just missed Connor Kent in the new 52. Although Rebirth is good.
The lack of continuity is largely what has kept me from reading DC. I really enjoyed Sinestro Corps War/War of Light/Darkest Night/Brightest Day, but everything else has been really confusing to me. Like where in the timeline does Dark Nights Metal take place, especially in regards to Doomsday Clock.
Having sal here just makes the video that much better
I think DC rebirth doesn't seem to have a timeline at least not yet anyways but I think DC is using a lot of Hypertime which Hypertime is like the DC multiverse except its where EVERY story ever made in DC's history exists and they can pull from it because I believe in rebirth like in dark knights metal they referenced hyoertime....idk I could be wrong.
Howdy
Killing joke may have happened but on the day it stops being included in the timeline... it’s an elseworld where bats kills the joker.
I think there HAS to be a definitive timeline (maybe not hard-line, but there's always our own headcanons lol) in DCs' main universe, because of several reasons:
- The constant crises and retcon would be completely rendered obselete. After all, Rebirth fixed a lot of the issues with the New 52, so if there's no timeline, why bother?
- Eaglemoss are currently publishing a "Legends of Batman" graphic novel series, which is collecting a ton of well-known and obscure stories into a chronological order, both stories are Pre-Final Crisis and New 52 (not sure if they'll do the same with Rebirth).
These two reasons pretty much make me refuse the idea of a lack of a timeline. Also, Marvel needs their own Rebirth, BADLY lol
honestly the only DCYOU book i liked was superman lois and clark series which gave us Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy who is so awesome and adorable and that was about it, all of the other DCYOU books were so boring and useless in my opinion that i was so happy with DC rebirth gave us back the real wally west flash which made me so happy and now that he's gone i am worried for the future of DC rebirth.
Just imagine: Superboy prime comes back from the source wall to fight Dr. Manhattan. 😃😃 Do it DC.
@lordgameminator Superboy Prime is going to be in Dark Knights Death Metal comic. F**K YES.
@@chilliciouspatrioticmeatlover DC rebirth sucks because it ruined Watchmen
@lordgameminator Creators deserve rights
@lordgameminator Alan moore needs his characters back
@lordgameminatorDC needs to stop messing with Frank Miller's Batman stories
I don't mind an idea of no timeline, except that DC continues to have huge events in which the whole universe is involved somehow. If there is no timeline, then each book should just have its own timeline and events should happen in isolation. If tie-ins need to happen, make them special issues like annuals are special issues.
I don't think it is fair to readers to have a timeline and not have a timeline at the same time, especially if they are readers who like following characters in different books, like reading JL and JLD because Wonder Woman is in it. If those books were stated to be isolated, then we could choose to fit them into the timeline as we wished.
+Comicstorian here's an insane out of my ass theory:
- Darkseid's motherbox is given the ability of time travel.
- Travels to Earth and takes Vandal Savage's immortality.
- Further back in time and tricks the Guardians of the Universe and absorbs the power battery.
- Possesses all the new Forces, no strain due to immortality.
- Travels to his own past and fights alongside himself.
- Due to multiple aberrations, Rebirth, New 52, & old continuity combine. Rebirth is able to bring in old continuity.
Congrats on 2 Million!
Also the new bendis line is called wonder comics which has Young justice featuring Tim drake robin Bart Allen Impulse and finally the return of Conner Kent superboy and Cassie sandsmark wonder girl also we are getting the return of the wonder twins within this new wonder comics line
I'd be interested in seeing DC do an Ultimates style run. An alternate/parallel universe/timeline and just completely reinvent everything. Just jump right into it each character with Parallel [Character Name] #1 and then every so often do #-1 and #-2 etcetera and through the character's history backwards.
Dat ad transition tho in the middle 😆
I think the simple answer to the question is no, DC has no timeline. However, a non simple is yes, we just don't completely know what that timeline is. Because of Hypertime, everything kinda happened, but the Hypertimeline the main DC Universe seems to exist in has been created thanks to the machinations of Doctor Manhattan, & because of that there is a timeline. But what is on that timeline? I have no fucking clue. Take Batman for example (btw check out The Real Batman Chronology Project for the best possible Batman timeline in The New 52 & Rebirth timelines, as well as Pre-Crisis Earth 2 & Earth 1 timelines & Post-Crisis, Pre-Flashpoint timeline). Batman's origin isn't even concrete anymore. Between Crisis On Infinite Earths & Flashpoint, Year One was THE Batman origin. Then The New 52 overwrote it with Zero Year, which has been the canon origin ever since until recently with Peter J. Tomasi's current Detective Comics run, which seems to ignore Zero Year & re-cement Year One as the current origin. Tom King's current Batman run confusingly seems to have Zero Year & Year One having both happened at once, despite that not making sense, as they contradict each other in several major ways. Questions like "What is Two-Face's origin?" & "Which different costumes did Batman wear?" are interesting to think about, but will probably never have an answer. There is & isn't a timeline. So really it just comes down to your personal headcanon.
Since you guys are the so called experts on comic books from this discussion it seems there isn’t one and they are just throwing ideas at a wall. I agree with Sal I LOVE continuity.
I personally think that the best stories for DC are those that don't have to fit in continuity: Superman Red Son, Injustice, the Dark Night Returns,...
They can still do Dc the end series. But it would have to be after Dr. Manhattan restores their memories. And then we get to see them remember what happened just before Manhattan wiped their minds.
PHONEIX would be a real shame if one of them was just sitting on the toilet when that happened xD
That would be hilarious
As a kid I wasn’t really allowed to just sit and watch tv and I wasn’t into comics cause I thought it was all anime type dbz and I’m not a fan of that stuff but it wasn’t until I was about 18-19 I’m 24 now that I got into that stuff so here I am now really getting into comics and hero’s and I just really want to say thank you to Comicstorian Comicsexplained I know I’m years late but this has been the best like 6mo catching up on literally everything I couldn’t be more happy honestly thank you guy so much man 🤝🏾🤝🏾
*BECAUSE A PORTAL HAS OPENED!*
Dammit Benny lol
If you guys do a video about the best Stan lee comics that'd be so freaking amazing or even a small blurb in one of your podcasts lol
Batman doesn't kill,
Villains just
accidentally jump into deadly batarangs
Omg yea please make more videos like exactly this im big dc fan but I HAVE NO IDEA WHATS CANON or what actually happend ?!?!?!?
A Sense of Pride and Accomplishment! IKR
Lol the way I see it for DC Canon is
Pre crisis, post crisis all to Flashpoint, new 52 then rebirth.
It simplifies the timeliness for me lol
I'd love a definitive clean continuity but for the most part I take each story I'm reading and take whatever continuity it's telling me exists as what I need to know to understand and get or enjoy that story. For the most part I have my own head canon for continuity because it's just as legitimate as what Marvel and DC have established by not having something coherent and clean. I absolutely love Cosmic Ghost Rider and I don't like Fank Castle or Ghost Rider in general. I don't care how or where or why or when anything that happens in that book or in the previous Thanos run interacts or means for the rest of the universe and characters referenced in it. If another book came out next week that dealt with the same point in time as that book takes place and in the same universe and it contradicts everything about it that wouldn't be how I decide if I like that story. I think we all need to realize that as much as we like this stuff for creative reasons at the end of the day it's a business that needs to sell and make money and they have to take care of that as priority #1 and everything else comes second.
Shut up
Congrats on 2 million!!
Because they have no.1 every 6 months ..lul i cried so badly on that !!Nice vid!!
This is some really high production value for a UA-cam podcast. Most of them are just people looking at their cellphone cameras.
I liked the New 52 for the most part.
I would love a video about dc and marvel comics that aren't in continuity but are still a good read. Like kevin smiths batman run or any xmen run.
42:46 them talking about Earth One DC
43:26 Benny I'm still waiting for Volume 3 of Earth One Batman 4 years and still nothing same with Superman
Such a dramatic entrance for Sal! Lol!
That beat drop Benny, perfect start lol
Yay I loved this episode it was tons of fun
Thats coll
Rob looks better ✌👺.ooooooh Superboy prime I hope his back. I'm waiting for death of Batman story. Blame Dr.Manhattan 😐.
Im with you.. i feel like thats who dr. Manhattan sees punching him before everytging goes black... the old "retroactive continuity punch" from good ol SuperBoy Prime.... gonna hit him so hard that everything Manhattan did is undone and all the dead heroes will return.
Batman isn't dying tho there hasn't been a death of batman story confirmed.
@@ayyitshmmm9607 thought it was confirmed by the whole no batman for over 1 year
@@evilovesperry that wasn't confirmed that was just an episode of what if batman was taken away.
@@TommyBaysMusic which is going to cause more problems
I actually got into comics because my local library had some new 52 floppies for green lantern, green arrow, and batman. Then my first event was the throne of atlantis.
Snyder's Swamp Thing was awesome. Accidentally bought the first one in a batch of Cable comics. My only exposure to Swamp Thing before this was a bad movie I saw as a kid. Thankful that I decided to read it.
Captain Atom was supposed to be Monarch, and it leaked out, so they made Hawk Monarch(In Armageddon) fans got upset because Wave Rider had already visited Hawk and Dove both, and said in all possible futures they had fought Monarch.
2M strong!!! Congrats Benson
I like the idea of a "THE END" event where everything gets hard reset, but knowing DC like I do, there will be some continuity leakage neccesitating another reboot in 5-10 years. I would rather they do a time jump like with 52, except longer so that we are now dealing with the next generation of heroes, but not so far that the existing heroes are not still out there in semi-retirement.
For me the big problem is that allow some characters to age and evolve while keeping Superman, Batman and a few others perpetually around the same age (35-ish) And because they are not allowed to age, we are stuck with all the in-continuity events being squished into a 5-10 year time line.
I want to see Dick become Batman. I want to see Jonathan become Superman. I want to see Donna / Cassie become Wonder Woman. And I want this to stick for more than a storyline or two. And this requires that we allow the timeline to progress - if Bruce has only been batman for 10-15 years perpetually, of course he'll never permenantly retire. But if time actually progresses and he's been Batman for 30 years, then we get to see that happen.
28: 37 it was captain atom, the hawk to be monarch. But later in 52, captain atom later became monarch, so it came full circle
The only that confuses me right now is the Two-Face in Deathstroke and the Two-Face in Detective Comics
I’m not gonna lie, I got into reading weekly essentially because of new 52. About 7 years later I’m still reading weekly 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
I like to think of it as different universes in a multiverse...
Year one
The man who laughs
Long halloween
Dark victory
Catwoman when in rome
Robin and batgirl year one
New 52
Rebirth
How I wished rob would have been there. It would have been awesome these three explaining the DC timeline
Benny, did you do a video on the Green Arrow story arc "Quiver"? If not could you or would you do one? It was a great story and involved many of DC's best.
And I do get that it comes down to profit margin and popularity or continuity. Keep up the good work.
DC is the best! dcu is satisfying, but i liked rebirth more and darkseid war was outsatnding magnificent
If we are going to get ultra violet and infra red... does that mean we could also get Xray lanterns or better yet...... GAMMA LANTERNS
Don't forget about Microwave lanturns🤣
@@MrSHADOWfox99 LOL!
when comes to time lines in Comics it very subjective. Things change
and there's no getting around that I have seen that in everything I love. It can be bit pain butt when it comes old school vs New school. In some circles this is very toxic but can be positive too. When it comes down to it.. what matters to the reader is what goes. Otherwise nothing has any meaning at all. To me it all relevant even crazy cross over with looney toons or other stuff.
Also i meant to add this is one of the best conversations about comics in a while. Not a dig at anything or anyone, just showd how much i liked this one.
The ultimate tag-line for Marvel. "Spider-man: Clone Saga...it'll drive your comic geek/nerd to sports".
I think both of the theories are right although I think they had/have plan or timeline but because of the doomsday clock delay they are trying to fill in the blanks or whatever with new stories and events
Yeah still waiting for teen titans earth one volume 3
well i hate to break it to u buddy but i think its gonna be a bit
@@leilahai indeed, DC is a mess right now
basically new 52 isn't over. it just went over to dc rebirth
no new 52 is over, its just that half of all the characters from new 52 just suddenly disappeared for some apparent reason
@@maymay5600 oh i get that I'm just saying with them picking and choosing what they're keeping in continuity from new 52 and some characters keeping their memories and the new 52 supes coming back, it just seems like they're rolling things over instead of completely rebooting the universe.
As someone just getting into DC comics, I am just relieved that I am not the only one not making sense of the timeline as a whole, I just am reading a few events and side characters that I like right now. And if anyone happens to read this comment, can you let me know why is Mera part of the Justice League now?
My issue is w/ the whole perpetuia debacle. Did Flashpoint by all technicality create perpetua and Perpetua create the new 52? In other words was perpetua always there, in the source wall?
Because if not, theres a whole can of mythos that they could explore considering they just announced that the old pre crisis on infinite earths multiverse still exists.
Is that the legend Sal Crivelli in the cut? Automatic like 👍
Love sal and his gang check out his page they got alot of good stuff love comicstorian and his gang alot but these guys got nothing on comicpop highly underrated
The problem is simple. Too many people write DC Comics stories. If there was a main writer for stories like Justice League and then a main writer for each individual comic like Batman, Flash etc then we'd be fine. But there are countless people who write stories on Batman, Flash, Justice League and all that
Ivan Reis is currently working with Bendis on his Superman run.
I'm prettty sure they were gonna make Rip Hunter turn into waverider in Legends but changed their mind.
They had some weird thing where Rip loves the ship and the ship loves him, I thought they were gonna have them merge and he'd become waverider
Wavrider looks like a mix of Booster Gold and Silver Surfer
“No mans land”, one of my favorite comic arcs when I first really started getting into comics.
Dc editorial: (shrug)
So 4 years off and we (I) still have more questions.
So Perpetua, was she ALWAYS there in DC mythos during like, the golden age of heroes/ comics? Before Crisis on infinite earths and Flashpoint?
Cause now that DC is doing its soft reboot of sorts, they could really look into the mythos of the pre crisis on infinite earths universe, especially since they just recently established that it still exists. Thats years worth of stories right there with infinite possibilities to make shit canon. Would explain the "everything is canon" mentality.
Armageddon was my first big DC crossover too. 😂
I don’t think you have to have a completely coherent and in continuity universe to tell good stories. You just need good stories.
Dc New 52/rebirth + Injustice 2 gear sets + anthem armor sets + destiny 2 armor sets + halo 4/5 armor sets + doom armor sets + tennogen
In all honesty, yes, but when it needs to change some little details in the story, it's needed.
Ya some cosmic beings like lucifer and the anti monitor remember all of there history.
Daragh O'kane The New Gods also remember all the bullshit Crisis stuff. Then there’s the freaking Monitors. lol
@@rodney2x48 does darkside remember dying in final crisis. I thought new 52 is why there back.
Remember that Marvel is also terrified of characters aging. Peter Parker has been a young adult since the seventies.
When he was first introduced they we’re actually aging him up
@@mikejones774 Yeah they implemented the sliding timescale thing when Peter was in his mid-twenties and he hasn't left them since.
I don't even know what's going on. I wish I could know where to start to understand the DC universe. There are so many comics, so many series, so many movies. Where to start?
Just read Harley Quinn.THERE IS A CONTINUITY TEAM IN UNIVERSE.
You mean like a team of people in the DC universe that takes care of the continuity? Because if that's what you mean they need to be fired
No,like in the DC Universe,we saw in Harley Quinn,I believe 50 or 51,we saw her breaking the continuity and I believe her editor came in and had to stop the while mess ,also later we saw her going through the editorial staff (as DC pins with faces on top of them).So it basically confirms that the editors try their best to keep everything in check.
I started with borrowing Graphic Novels from my library, But i didn't really dive into comics tell Rebirth/Dark Metal and after Marvel Secret War Jane Thor, Wolverine X23 and Ms Marvel
I feel like the plan got lost as soon as Johns stepped down. The same old guard took over that was in charge that has the same old plans that they have been pushing down our throats for years, that we have fully lost the taste for. I feel johns fully had his finger on the pulse and knew what we the readers wanted and fought for that. I like to compare this scenario to the WWE. Vince is so out if touch with reality and keeps pushing what he wants and clearly sees what the fans don't want, yet does it anyway. DC is doing the exact same thing, They just want what they want and that'f the final say.
There is a website called the real batman chronology project that tries its best to estimate timelines throughout the different reboots.