Micky Flanagan Takes On Modern Art - Class Dismissed - BBC Two
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
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Watch the BBC first on iPlayer 👉 bbc.in/iPlayer... More about this programme: www.bbc.co.uk/p... Micky Flanagan, like many people, doesn't get the appeal of modern art. Can Will Gompertz, the BBC's Arts Editor, change his mind when they meet at an art gallery?
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I'm 71 years old and I remember a guy on TV way back in the 50's his name was Gilbert Harding and he had his own talk show. One particular evening he put this scenario to the test. He welcomed on stage four very prominent art critics to give their version of a piece of art. Every one of them gave their expert opinion of what the artist was trying to say to the viewing public. On that he said 'Gentlemen, please stay where you are and I will introduce you to the artist who has created this masterpiece'. He went backstage and came back on with a chimpanzee. Nuff said.
Bloody right ,it's a load of old bollocks 👍🙄
😂😂😂
The skill isn’t with the artist nowadays, it’s with the critics making up all the insane twaddle.( which should be spelt twoddle.. but some other intellectual has had to mess with that as well)
haha love it
He's completely right. It's bollocks. The Emperor's New Clothes.
That story reflects Modern Art.
*pollocks
I Drew a Cock on them!
No one's waiting for Gardot to produce a real work of art.
You couldn’t have said it better!
"d'you know what, I don't think you'd get anywhere near" - seriously? anyone could do this. Literally anyone.
Why then you don't do it?
Don't you want for your work to hang there for a decent amount of money?
I think you should do it if you can.
Maybe I also can, but you know why I still can't bring myself to actually do it? Because I don't have the art skill of BEING DARING ENOUGH.
But those people did. And they won.
I suspect not being daring enough - it's why 90% of people don't do such things although they can and don't have big success in life generally.
Although almost everyone could.
Daring enough? They're just think they can get away with it that's all, no intelligence, thought or talent goes into it. They copy some other buttmunch and if they're lucky they strike gold. Just like those so-called talented 'painters', who are children, from India. Another child, same age, different time, nothing.
I don't think a dead dude could do it.
@@Walperion_Music people don't dare to do it because the fine art world is a very well disguised money laundering operation and the artists are predetermined within that circle already. It's a genius way of saying 'look how good this tosh is' mixed with 'I need to move some money around tax free'
And when did you last produce a work of art, however bad, Apple? Never? And when have you ever had an original thought? Also never?
"Do you know what, I don't think you'd get anywhere near."
Oh have a day off, tweed boy.
It's almost embarassing how little the BBC art guy has in the way of justificaiton for that sort of 'art'. When you don't know that much about this sort of thing, you just assume that there MUST be something you're not getting about it. But everytime you hear someone try and justify it, they've got nothing. An entire sub-section of the medium has essentially created a perpetual motion machine of self-confirmation. What we can make of that, I don't know. But what's 100% clear is that it's nothing to do with the piece of art itself.
So, in a nutshell, Gompertz is a ponce?
I went to art school and failed miserably because I have no talent. However I did learn a lot. When given an assignment to paint a ton of abstract paintings I handed it off to the little brother of my then girlfriend, he was two and a half at the time. He loved it and I actually got good grades on them, after having made up bullshit about what they meant. My teacher had a meltdown when I told her the truth when she had finished grading my work. She had a masters degree in art... And although anecdotal it does confirm what Micky is saying. It's just bullshit that sells these things. Not saying every artist makes shit up but you only have their word to take for it and considering the prices they charge... Well you get the picture :)
Lol, ive just stumbled across this comment now but its comforting hearing you say you have no talent, I feel like im so BAD bro and everyone else in my class is good, do i just give up or make up some bs?
@@bronwynmarshall404 I can't tell you what to do but I guess it depends on how bad you want it.
A lot can be made up for with hard work so that is an option.
For me personally, I only went to art school because I thought it was an easy way to get my high school diploma.
So yeah, if you love it then don't compare yourself to the other students but compare your current work to your previous work.
And just work your ass off 😊
I'm not gonna say this isn't art, because I believe art is a subjective matter. The problem is, these art critics think it's their business to decide what objectively is and isn't art. So, if a critic says an overturned dust bin, a few random splats of paint, or a slash in a canvas is art, then it's art and it will sell for hundreds of thousands of pounds. Their decision in assigning the artistic label is often influenced by the creator of the piece - if a prestigious artist puts a blank sheet of paper in frame, then it's artistic, but if me or you were to do that I doubt they'd come to the same conclusion.
Pykadon h
Pykadon listen to this mate 'The Life & Death Of Art' by MURRAY LACHLAN YOUNG
This reminds me of the story of the couple in the modern art gallery who stood and stared at a fire alarm call point for a few minutes. After about 15 minutes there was a rather large crowd gathered around all staring at it too 😂
Love Micky Flanagan and this is such a fantastic reprosentation of what "normal" people think of art.
How did art move from the paintings in the Sistine Chapel to a slash in canvas, or a cow cut in half? Really sad.
recently, first prize in a modern art competition was actually the light switch in the room and not part of the competition
The editor of this segment needs a medal for 2:06
Lol, that was just brilliant editing.
Masterful
Most people actually agree with Micky Flanagan. Modern art is pretentious, lack of skill and elitist. It is a big hole dugged by the 'art establishment' and failed to connect with the general public, who sensibly do not subscribe to their vision of art. Art should mostly (but not necessary) about beauty and emotion, which are lacking in Modern Art. It takes a lot of courage to say it is a load of rubblish.
modern art is full of beauty & emotion, look closer
***** Thanks for your advice. There are beauty & emotion in Modern Art but you have to look deep. Occasionally, we maybe able to find one. I use Modern Art is the generic sense of the word.
there is more category of music then art .
modern and contemporary are some of the widest known forms of art people understand or not,so its successful.
in the past people said van Gogh and turner was shit 150 years ago we see them as classic works of art now the bullshit gets sived out over time (whatever bullshit mean's)
Let's be clear, when you say "modern art" what you're really thinking of is conceptual art. Not all modern art is like this.
Lol, it takes no courage
Micky’s spot on. No notion of beauty, truth, goodness; no relationship with context or history or tradition; no discipline. Same goes for architecture now.
I agree. I think he's right. He could go home and slash up his sofa and take a picture of it, get the picture printed and framed and then hang it on a wall as a piece of art just like the other one with that one line. He could say the picture represent domestic frustration emphasized by the need to destroy furniture as a counter productive reaction to just go buy a new sofa if you do not like the old one
Funny, when I was about 13 I pretty much said the same thing to this artist whilst at an art exhibition. Been to the Portrait Gallery in London and it is jaw dropping.
Basically, if i can do it myself, it isnt art. I cant carve out david, no matter how many lifetimes you give me....that is art.
I’m an art enthusiast but this was BRILLIANT❤Love Will Love Micky Happy Easter All 💐🇬🇧🏴💕
when the Brits some up with a word for something, it truly has earned it's moniker, witness, ''twat''....synonym for 'art critic'.....well done. and Mickey is right, modern art is rubbish until it gets about 5 or 6 zeroes added to it's bottom line....
I once saw a video of a guy sat at a piano. He contemplated playing something then hit his head off the keys. That, to me, represents modern art.
I'm with Micky, this type of 'art' is total nonsense
+Ireland1984 Thats probably because you are like the billions of other people who are Not artist or have not been college educated in Art or art history to understand what is being shown. You don't see the general public arguing with Mathematicians and calling their work nonsense. Yet you assume to understand a subject which dates back 35 thousand years just by using your common sense.... This is no good
+Tada Asatoorian Explain to me how framing a blank canvas with a slash down it requires skill? Surely ANYONE can do that?!
+Ireland1984 id rather not walk you through it like a child. If skill is all you look for in what distinguishes "art" from not art then your focusing on just the surface. Everyone can paint or draw what they see like Rembrandt or Picasso, skill take time, nothing more. It's the concepts and ideas that these people were commenting on which make them who they are. It's what separates Art from illustration... And as for your "anyone can do it!" Comment, I'll say but you didn't do it. And even if you did, could you argue and justify your reasoning with critics and art historians who hate your slash painting (because that's exactly what happened when that painting was first displayed) if you could "sell" your idea and justify the importance of how much space your work takes up on the wall, don't you think it's ok to keep it up? Art is more then what looks nice and how it looks (that's childish) it's like reading philosophy as a 3rd grader and concluding that all philosophy is nonsense..
+Tada Asatoorian If I pissed on a wall, took the brick work out, framed it and then waffled on about how it's a comment on humanity's disregard for it's surroundings you're the kind of idiot that would be like; wow man, amazing! Jog on you stuck up prat. xx
+Tada Asatoorian Haha!!! I thought of the stupidest thing to top my head and you tell me it's already been done!! Haha! Talk about proving my point!!
WELL, I FOUND IT AMUSING... WALKED INTO SURREALIST EXHIBITION, SAW A PICTURE PAINTING OF A WALL - AND BURST OUT LAUGHING REALLY LOUDLY.. LIKE A MASS OF STRESS HAD BEEN EXPELLED...
It's reminding me of Harry Enfield's 'Tim nice but dim' explaining why the pic, (a mirror) is good art...
I’m with Micky. I went to the Saatchi gallery once and was crying with laughter all the way round.
I'm with Mick all the way, it's total bollocks.
To quote 10cc . Art for Art's sake , money for God's sake. !!!
“...this is a mirror...”
😂😂😂
People appreciate effort and talent. I could get on board with the first one, the second one I’d be like “yeah nice idea, it’s not art though, it just a quirky ornament.” Then the last I would just sigh and leave
That hairstyle is a work of modern art
‘Destroyed something to create something’........priceless
“What’s art about that?!” -Karl Pilkington
What a load of tosh. Nice one Micky, I've just had to increase my home insurance premiums because of all my blasted mirrors!!!
well, they asked for an honest opinion... he's spot on with his idea of what they all were!
There’s a Tracey Emin ‘Art’ show near me at the moment. What a load of absolute bollocks it is...
hahahahaha, I'm with Micky on this one. And I'm a fine art painter.
Mickey should win the Turner Prize, if he wasn't too lazy to enter his mirror artwork.
Why is slashing a canvas art in that case but not when I do it?
loodlebop: Because you're not a famous artist that pretentious students are desperate to suck off at every opportunity. Literally the only difference, hah.
Why do you think your slashed canvases can't be works of art? Good news for you: they can.
And that's a good thing. You just need to think of some way of convincing people that your slashed canvases are works of art.
And THAT's what is extremely hard. That's what art sometimes is. To be daring and convincing.
I also have many slashed canvases at home but I don't posess the skill or inventivness to convince people theat they worth a fortune. But some of those people do.
That's why they are bigger artists than me.
Ye, because everyone has the expectation that the artist in this situation was going to produce a drawing/painting/etc. What he/she did was to create something by destroying it. It only works because there is context. The context when you slash your sofa is not interesting to many people, if anyone.
A lot of art is so because, in some critics' views, someone was the "first" to do something. So if I paint a beautiful garden with a bridge over it and a pond with water lilies, it is not art because Monet already did it 150 years ago. There lies a conundrum. So Tracy Emin is apparently a valid modern artist because no-one presented an unmade bed as art before, and if anyone did so now, they would be accused of plagiarising Emin. Artists are obsessed with being original, which is probably why they produce more and more bizarre and absurd works, often out of a DESPERATION to be "original". But being just original is not "art". It needs other attributes.
@@fingerhorn4 so it's more to do with actually claiming it's art than it actually having any creative or meaningful merit? So the first person to shove an iron bolt through their cock and call it art is going to be a millionaire? Even it was accidental? Lol
Totally agree Mickey, none of that was art!!!😂
He’s on to something, a small percentage is clever the majority is just about class divide.....in other words total bollocks.
Okay, but I could do anything and someone would come up with a interpretation that would qualify it as art. I think art pieces should have a little explanation next to them, but covered, so that you can try to figure it out and guess if it was correct.
OR! They could just make something that actually is Art.
I would like to have guys the one that showing Mickey around to give an explanation of an art piece and than have him uncover what the artist had actually meant. I bet, 9 out of 10 and yes, I realize that I'm being quite generous to the "art interpreters" here, would be wrong most of the times. There are things that certain parts of our society does these days that's just so pretentious and modern art, fashion show etc. are few examples.
+nikoincroatia Most artwork has some description next to them, or a name. but if you are going to an exhibition why would you not study alittle bit before hand. Google the artist, their life, what they have to say about their work. You're not going to go watch a movie without seeing the trailer beforehand, so why does the general public think art is something they inherently need to understand without research? Art has a huge history, and most people are ignorant of that history. They use words like "expression" or "subjective" without understanding what they mean or where art is in relation to them.
" Yep". There. The start of a novel.
"Sort yer Barnet out Will yer" 😂😂😂
The art itself is quite good, it engaged a reaction out of Micky making it interactive & sociable,
If that was the case all Modern Art would be comedy shows.
no it wouldn't though would it, im sure you could display a comedy show in a gallery space, this would be fantastic :) Acey
But provoking a derisory impression is not impressive nor a reason for something to be worth doing.
Thought provoking is the best thing/only thing this kind of art is good for.
+Retrovirus
You obviously intended for your comment to be derogatory but ironically what you just said is the greatest compliment. We have to think about why we have art and it's use in modern society. It's no longer used as a mere decoration. It's something that causes us to think, and evaluate and philosophise. So if the only thing art is good for, is to provoke thought, then I would say it's doing a bloody good job.
The ONLY difference between art and non-art is a big white room. Dog poo on the pavement is dog poo. Put it on a white plinth, in a white room and it immediately becomes art. That’s all there is to it. It’s all about location and context.
'Modern art'...........it's all a bit Emperors New Clothes.
Flanagan for President! Thanks for the clip!
If you put a mirror on the ceiling above your bed, it says something different to the bathroom mirror.
The mirror itself is just a mirror.
In a gallery, the content inside the frame is to be looked at and pondered over. With a mirror there we become the artist. What we wear. The make up we may wear. We are looking at our own image through the eyes of the world. Through the eyes of the gallery visitors we meet every day. The mirror has a different context in a different setting.
Bollocks
My recommended feed is full of Micky
Speaking as a middle-class art student..... I have to agree 100% with Micky. XD Stuff like that makes me wonder why I'm even bothering aiming for an artistic career, haha.
When I see the Tate Modern I think - what a waste of a good power station.
I think - what a waste of a run-down, beat-up, derelict eyesore of a power station.
@@loveleyday Run-down, beat-up, derelict eyesore sounds more interesting than all the sh*t inside it.
Nobody ever heard of Mick Flanagan!
read the book 'Painting for Profit' by James Starkey. It will blow all this Modern art crap out the window. One of the UKs most successful art dealers, knew he wasn't too well and not going to last long so wrote a book about how all this bollocks is just made up and designed to make money out of the rich and stupid. If you can get a copy you'll be doing well as most have been bought up by other art galleries and dealers to get them off the market asap!
There is a distinction that must be drawn between "art" in terms of culture, and the market surrounding it in terms of dealers, galleries, etc. A lot of modern art is made without the intention of being sold. The book you mentioned is more a criticism, and a fair one at that, at the galleries surrounding the art world. It is by no means a comment on modern art in terms of whether or not it is "good", something which is decided by the people.
The emperor’s new clothes. But you’ve got to admire how inventive and creative these art critics are in describing the artwork, and that in fact is what it’s all about, nothing to do with the actual art, which means bugger all to anyone who sees it and doesn’t thinks the emperor is wearing new clothes.
I think the alienation people feel when faced with modern art is not really class related, it's that primarily modern art is an esoteric conversation between fellow artists.
I'm telling you now. This is a mirror... hahahahha
Spot on !
I didn't feel Will Gompertz really explained anything beyond directly arguing - he says slashing a sofa is just a bloke who slashed a sofa, but a canvas with a slash in it is art. Why?
It's like you draw a kiddys basic painting, as long as you can put a twisted complicated intellectual explanation behind it, that's it!! You've just made a modern piece of art
"I'm tellin ya naw, dis is a miwa" 😂🤣😂
Is there anywhere I can watch the whole episode of this?
Walking through the "Walker Gallery." in Liverpool The modern art gallery had a painted egg box on the wall... "What the fuck.!!!!" Yes someones taking the piss !!!
Micky Flanagan is a Comedy Giant and he is saying what we havebeen thinking for years.
Modern art, I think I've just found a new source of comic material. If I ever need a laugh, I best just go down to my local gallery.
I think Mickey Flanagan concert would still be funnier.
I just love Mickey. Calling bollocks on pretensions.
Will Gompertz looks like the "Balloon Man" Morgan in David Firths 'Dating Video'
The idea that someone destroyed something in order to create something ... hmm, isn't that a million other pieces of art before it? The Statue of David saw Michaelangelo destroy a piece of stone to create a sculpture of a man.
Just exactly what I think !!!! If that is art, then every thing is art. So shit could be art as well ?
I guess you don't know shit about Art. That question as been answered years ago by now. Yes, there are some works of art are are just... shit.
Esteban Larrea in the MONA an art gallery in Tasmania, Australia they actually have a artists statement of art being up its own arse, it is a very clever and technological marvel but in is essentially a shitting machine. They feed it scraps from the cafe and it mimics the human digestive tract producing shits several times a day!
David Clark That can be a great machine but for me it is not art. It could actually be really useful as a tool for teaching but not some work that expresses the essence of artistic work.
I porcelain framed a masterpiece this morning.
Apparently it is - particularly elephant shit. What a carry-on!
2:21 burst out laughing looool. Micky is the man
Well done Micky I’m an amateur artist and I cannot get modern art, it’s just lazy, I spend hours trying to get things to look like what they are, although abstract can be good if done well.
There is, and cannot be, a definition of art that can be applied universally, since art is inherently subjective. One is entitled to opine that all modern art is "a load of bollocks", but to impose or define such an opinion as a general rule denies the right of artistic expression. No one is an arbiter of 'standards' in art - including art critics - since there are no criteria, technical or otherwise, that the artist is required to obey, and that is as true of painters in the 15th century as it is of artists today. Most of the commentators here would probably agree that 19th century impressionist paintings have validity as works of art, even though they were ridiculed in their day. Over time, artworks that were considered unacceptable often become acceptable, particularly when their unconventional approach becomes conventional. When it comes to art, indignation and acceptance often reflect social mores of the day.
If that 'slash' was done by any random person it wouldn't be considered art. They're just indulging their classness by buying/admiring the 'artists' rather that the so called art.
People of my generation on here may remember a TV presenter/journalist called Gilbert Harding. Many years ago he put this same scenario to the test with four eminent art critics of the day. He displayed several abstract art images for them to analyse. Each one, in turn, gave their own personal spiel on what the artist was trying to portray. They all went into elaborate explanations on what the artist was trying to convey to the viewer. Gilbert Harding then said, "Gentlemen, please give a round of applause to the artist who painted these images". He went into the wings and came back on with a chimpanzee. This proves the point beyond any shadow of a doubt, that yes it's all bollocks.
I couldn't agree more with Micky!!!
Micky Flanagan is art.
That curator could be a modern art masterpiece
The guy Micky is speaking to is Skeletor!!!!!!
Micky you are A legend.
Everyone says 'I could've done that' but the point is, you didn't!
"Ist das 'Kunst' - oder kann das weg?"(is this supposed to be 'art' - or can I chuck it out?)
Omg .. totally agree with Micky !
The first time I saw a Hockney 'piece' I genuinely believed it had been painted by a (not very talented) 10 year old. School halls and classrooms are filled with pictures very similar to Hockney's very best. Who remembers the 'Unmade bed'? Or the empty room with the light bulb being switched on and off? Modern 'art'? LOL
To be fair to Hockney and without trying to sound
To pretentious I love the desolation of the paintings it's almost surreal.
I would agree some of his work is not amazing though .
I heard a story that in some art gallery they wanted to display a national flag for some sort of holiday and day before they have found one in storage but it was dirty and looked like rag, so they washed it and let it hang to dry on old coaghanger. You can guess what happened - acidentally it was spotted by art critics who spend next few hours discussing this new exciting piece of art... Old wet rag on a coathanger... Only because it was in gallery...
I can actually understand it even without being funny, sometimes art is just WHERE it's presented or how it's presented. Not just what it is or how skilled it is.
Modern art is just one of those things I love to hate.
As I was looking around an exhibition last year, I saw a piece that just baffled me, I asked the guide to explain it and apparently it represented the 'spark of creativity' that comes with the initial strokes of a new painting.
If you'd like to see this award winning (not joking it actually won an award) piece, go to Google Images and search 'John Moores Painting Prize Mineral 9', it should be the first result.
hahaha Micky is SPOT ON!
Brilliant.
My 5 year old does that every day with his paints and its far better than that shite
But your 5 year old doesn't make millions of it. That is the true work of art.
Good on the wee man
@@AienAristeuein Never say never Sturla lol
@@AienAristeuein You're close to something here. In a world obsessed with money, the definition of art is being shifted towards "can make millions".
@@AienAristeuein The art of the con artist.
So according to Gompertz, slashing a canvas is art but slashing your settee isn't?
My family is middle class, my mother likes modern art, whilst my father and I go round the gallery taking the piss out of it, observe;
"Katie, what do you think this 'master piece interprets?"
"How modern artists are the greatest conmen of out time, dear father!"
*The piece of 'artwork' was a blank canvas with a red square on... are you fucking serious?*
Oh and that type of modern art, specifically the canvas titled "Spatial Concept, Waiting" is precisely the thing that started Pete Townshend of The Who to smash his guitar. I didn't hear the lower and middle class say, "that's not performance, that's demolition ... anyone could break a guitar."
Try it mates, and I guarantee you, it won't look as good as watch?v=IB-rTJiajjM
Expert haha walking round with that comb back hair do, he's having a laugh
@borednerd74 tell me about it I went to some gallery like this in Manchester and one of the pieces was a blank canvas and I'm thinking a million people could produce this, yet the first guy to hand over a blank canvas to an art gallery gets recognised
I come from the same place as Micky Flannigan, Bethnal Green, This is not art, it's taking the piss that what it is. A slash on a canvas, do me a favour. Didn't some woman get out of her bed once and this was in the gallery and a pile of bricks. My 4 year old grandson paints me a picture, now that's art.
He's spot on
quality!
"This art is rubbish, I could have made that."
"Why didn't you?"
You’ve obviously got to be a certain type of person that modern art snobs would accept.
I.e. If that daft red painting at the beginning hadn’t existed, and all of a sudden I’d made it, turned up to the gallery and said; “here you go, put that on display”, they’d laugh in my face and tell me to go away.
@@runawayplane6166 yep, same with the mirror and slashed canvas, but we're all to thick to get it. We are not allowed in their world. Load of pretentious nonsense.
Mickey’s slashed sofa isn’t art but Tracey Emin’s bedroom is.
If that so-called artist slashed his sofa and hung it on an art gallery's wall, I bet that geezer would love it.
Completely agree. Most modern art is just people taking the piss who have run out of ideas.
Mickley is right a slash in a canvas is not art a mirror is not art .Because there's no skill involved. Where as paintings by Turner constable and sculptures by Moore are very hard to replicate
As an artist who was born and raised on a council estate I'd say it's more to do with narrow-minded philistinism than class!
Chris Lewis-Jones: Or intelligence versus pretentious, sycophantic idiocy and an overwhelming desire to appear more deep than you actually are by sucking off whatever 'artist' art galleries tell you are good. Not that I think you have the intellectual range of a cactus, of course. I wouldn't want to insult you.
Art doesn't require the linear delivery mechanic of being on a 2D surface and hung on a wall any more than music needs only be created by one instrument and listened to only on one speaker.
Art is creativity. The way it is consumed matters not.
James Green mate I'm sorry but swirling a brush round a wall is hardly art, if anything it's an insult to the proper artists.
No, I agree. What I mean is, just because it's by a recognised name and strung up in a museum doesn't make it any better than any other art. Art comes in many forms. Subjectivity determines what's "good". Some dipshit's critical opinion is utter bollocks imo. The same as music, you like what you like regardless the so called critical acclaim.
But it was just a (probably) shop purchased mirror. If I approached that building with a slashed canvas I would be laughed out the door. I can even agree with the expression and meaning etc but it only seems to count when certain people do it and that's what people don't like.
Spot on Micky
To all those people that moan about 'modern art doesn't need skill".
But isn't that good news?
That means YOU can be a successful modern artist.
So what are you complaining about?
Just stop moaning and take the opportunity!