I went to a non-denominational evangelical Biblically based Church that was an incredible blessing to me as I started attending as a new follower of Christ. I would certainly consider them more conservative (no female elders, pastors, and I don’t remember a female speaker in my year of attendance before I moved), but they really encouraged women discipling women and I had a phenomenal experience being discipled through a weekly discipleship course with a seasoned sound Christian sister that lasted for about 3 months. Our church also held regular “Bible 101” courses that were encouraged for everyone, going over biblical fundamentals. I received such a strong foundation through these experiences! I wish these types of ‘programs’ were more commonplace in the Church.
I have experienced this on a very low level because I’m not a speaker, or author, or a human with a platform. I am a Godly woman who has hated the stigma of a human with a voice. Thank you for sharing this and thank you for speaking up!!!!
Preston, I would love to have a conversation with you about this topic. I am 38 years old, and have been involved in ministry since I was five. I think I would be labeled a traditional Christian conservative, which I might mostly agree with, even though I don’t like labels regarding these things. I’ve been a pastor for nearly 12 years, and have talked with my wife about every sermon I have prepared. I have tried to make eye contact with every person, from the youngest to the oldest, during each sermon. I have not had a consistent group of men who are available to go over my sermons with me, but have initiated every experience I have had with someone going over my sermons. I have had the blessing to preach on a speaking team a few times. I serve within a small Sabbatarian denomination (Church of God Seventh Day or CoG7 for short). Both congregations I have served are small congregations. This video hit on so many things that I have been praying about, and studying about, really over my whole life, but more specifically within the last eight years.
Great insight and assistance with the path God has me on currently. I am an Ordained Pastor, Seer, and Senior Pastor along with my husband. I'm ever learning and gaining insight as I study God's word and being led by the Holy Spirit.
When I read Embodied, I read the endnotes too! It really helped me to appreciate all the research and the wide scope of sources that you drew from to present the information.
I stumbled across this interview while looking for resources for a couple of young men I know whom (due to reasons that are probably primarily medical / developmental) fall quite "far" outside of the conventional interpretation of "masculine". Both of whom lack what I'd venture to guess (with one; yet known with the other) would be well rounded, balanced and emotionally mature fathers in their lives. Thus the trolling / bullying Aimee talked about coming from OPC "leaders"..... Wow...been there; been on the receiving end of that myself. At least now I know... it wasn't just me! So, the other side of this equation is that I (the mother of one of these young men) am also a thinking Biblical "theological junkie" myself. Aimee Byrd asked the question of where do women find discipleship in the church? Of which she brought up the idea of seminary. Well, my experience of discipleship has been basically a Bible in one hand and a concordance in the other. (I also do a fair amount of research on multiple topics.) But yeah, I can certainly concur that a shared space for female theologians is hard to come by. I too was in an OPC for 10 years, in which I was on the receiving end of a lot of suspicion.... (for what... studying the Bible)??? So here I am now, left in a space (publishing on the Internet) that is filled with "neurodiverse" teenage and young adult males trying to figure out who they are suppose to be in Christ; because the men who should be raising them with compassionate understanding, seem to lack the skill to guide their "outside the box" sons into an adulthood that fits the unique challenges of these young men. (Which I think there are multiple factors affecting Gen Z in general; but that's a whole other pile of complicated sociological and ideological stresses.) Which has brought me to: recovering from "Biblical" manhood and womanhood. As per the question of the role of biological sex in theology? Of course we realize from Genesis that both Adam and Eve were together "created in God's image". And God as "He" exists outside of our current course of history is consequently neither and both "male and female". Personally, I've come to a certain "theological conclusion" that the human nature of Christ represents a metaphoric "feminine side" of God. After all Christ had both a Divine and a human nature and since he didn't have a biological "Eve"; "that which the Father gave" him, was His/his because that "bride" was purchased with his own blood. So though it's true, no man "hates his own body" yet He/he "laid down his life for a friend". For after all, Christ's humanity came through the line of the female elect of Eve. I.E. he was the son of his own bride! (Let's all try to wrap our brains around that!) Anyways, interesting interview. This is the first time I've ever heard of Aimee Byrd. I'm looking forward to doing a little more research into her books. I'm hoping to find something resources wise that's useful for the fellows who come across my own writings and ask for help. I write a lot about issues surrounding sexual abuse and encounter a lot of fellows looking for help with p**n addiction and LGBTQ++++ agenda driven issues. Please pray for us.
I love how she says she doesn't consider herself a complimentarian becuase that word is a new one and it speaks of a particular movement in a particular corner of the Christian community. That is how I feel. I have no problem at all with the Biblical nor the traditional mandate of male presbyters and episkopos- I see it more of men being called to these positions out of duty and less about them "getting to be" leaders. BUT- this movement that has been obsessed with female subordination in all things, and this obsession with patriarchy, is unbalanced, weird, and ahistorical. All throughout church history (at least in the Catholic and Orthodox spheres) there have been women religious, women saints, women theologians, who have had influence in the church, even if they were not presybyers or episkopos.
I am struck in a number of ways by this sort of discussion… I find these “controversies” to be the sort that would melt away with but a bit of difficulty in our lives… these strike me as division born out of extreme comfort. Probably on both sides of the discussion. We have a low-cost Christianity and this allows for a hyper focus on minutiae. I also think that men must do a better job of modeling Christ-like leadership and that, in many cases, that we elevate doctrinal accuracy above loving and respectful servant leadership. We need both but it can be easier to get the knowledge whereas the servant leader character is much more difficult to come by. The male / female role debate might just disappear if men did love and lead and teach like the Lord would have us to do. I suspect that Godly women would truly line up behind Godly men were they to appear.
Weird how these guys are so intimidated and petty towards this feminine and intelligent sheologian who's just writing books and public speaking. In regards to men's and women's study Bibles I think this is really just a symptom of a larger focus of the publishing houses worshiping Mamon. Also as a complementarian I'm a little baffled by her distancing from the term given how she then goes on to articulate distinctly complementary ideas, maybe it's being used differently in her context and I'm confused by that. To me the things she has critiqued aren't consistent with what I would say fits the definition of men and women being complementary; the very point of complementarianism is to resist mysogyny/chauvinism on one hand while resisting the flattening out of egalitarianism on the other, while taking Scripture seriously on the topic.. Hoping Preston will go deeper on this topic as it seems Complementarian in the usage here really means Patriarchal and that's just not it.
I’ve followed and read her stuff. To me, it’s men in her former church that keep the controversy going. I see them trolling her videos and posts, making up none sense that she clearly never says. She has shown how hurt she is at times, but I could see a person finally getting used to it.
Man. "Im a thinking woman in the church just trying to find a place." That hits hard for me.
I went to a non-denominational evangelical Biblically based Church that was an incredible blessing to me as I started attending as a new follower of Christ. I would certainly consider them more conservative (no female elders, pastors, and I don’t remember a female speaker in my year of attendance before I moved), but they really encouraged women discipling women and I had a phenomenal experience being discipled through a weekly discipleship course with a seasoned sound Christian sister that lasted for about 3 months.
Our church also held regular “Bible 101” courses that were encouraged for everyone, going over biblical fundamentals. I received such a strong foundation through these experiences! I wish these types of ‘programs’ were more commonplace in the Church.
@Sarah Hodgins fair enough but they still we're not elders 🤷
@Sarah Hodgins Where did she say there were no female workers or deacons in this church?
“There is a systemic problem with addressing abuse.” Spot on!😭
I have experienced this on a very low level because I’m not a speaker, or author, or a human with a platform. I am a Godly woman who has hated the stigma of a human with a voice. Thank you for sharing this and thank you for speaking up!!!!
I’m so impressed with how kind Aimee has been to the Geneven Commons crowd. Her love for the church shines through.
Preston,
I would love to have a conversation with you about this topic. I am 38 years old, and have been involved in ministry since I was five. I think I would be labeled a traditional Christian conservative, which I might mostly agree with, even though I don’t like labels regarding these things.
I’ve been a pastor for nearly 12 years, and have talked with my wife about every sermon I have prepared. I have tried to make eye contact with every person, from the youngest to the oldest, during each sermon. I have not had a consistent group of men who are available to go over my sermons with me, but have initiated every experience I have had with someone going over my sermons. I have had the blessing to preach on a speaking team a few times.
I serve within a small Sabbatarian denomination (Church of God Seventh Day or CoG7 for short). Both congregations I have served are small congregations.
This video hit on so many things that I have been praying about, and studying about, really over my whole life, but more specifically within the last eight years.
Great insight and assistance with the path God has me on currently. I am an Ordained Pastor, Seer, and Senior Pastor along with my husband. I'm ever learning and gaining insight as I study God's word and being led by the Holy Spirit.
When I read Embodied, I read the endnotes too! It really helped me to appreciate all the research and the wide scope of sources that you drew from to present the information.
I stumbled across this interview while looking for resources for a couple of young men I know whom (due to reasons that are probably primarily medical / developmental) fall quite "far" outside of the conventional interpretation of "masculine". Both of whom lack what I'd venture to guess (with one; yet known with the other) would be well rounded, balanced and emotionally mature fathers in their lives.
Thus the trolling / bullying Aimee talked about coming from OPC "leaders"..... Wow...been there; been on the receiving end of that myself. At least now I know... it wasn't just me!
So, the other side of this equation is that I (the mother of one of these young men) am also a thinking Biblical "theological junkie" myself. Aimee Byrd asked the question of where do women find discipleship in the church? Of which she brought up the idea of seminary. Well, my experience of discipleship has been basically a Bible in one hand and a concordance in the other. (I also do a fair amount of research on multiple topics.) But yeah, I can certainly concur that a shared space for female theologians is hard to come by. I too was in an OPC for 10 years, in which I was on the receiving end of a lot of suspicion.... (for what... studying the Bible)???
So here I am now, left in a space (publishing on the Internet) that is filled with "neurodiverse" teenage and young adult males trying to figure out who they are suppose to be in Christ; because the men who should be raising them with compassionate understanding, seem to lack the skill to guide their "outside the box" sons into an adulthood that fits the unique challenges of these young men. (Which I think there are multiple factors affecting Gen Z in general; but that's a whole other pile of complicated sociological and ideological stresses.)
Which has brought me to: recovering from "Biblical" manhood and womanhood.
As per the question of the role of biological sex in theology? Of course we realize from Genesis that both Adam and Eve were together "created in God's image". And God as "He" exists outside of our current course of history is consequently neither and both "male and female".
Personally, I've come to a certain "theological conclusion" that the human nature of Christ represents a metaphoric "feminine side" of God. After all Christ had both a Divine and a human nature and since he didn't have a biological "Eve"; "that which the Father gave" him, was His/his because that "bride" was purchased with his own blood. So though it's true, no man "hates his own body" yet He/he "laid down his life for a friend". For after all, Christ's humanity came through the line of the female elect of Eve. I.E. he was the son of his own bride! (Let's all try to wrap our brains around that!)
Anyways, interesting interview. This is the first time I've ever heard of Aimee Byrd. I'm looking forward to doing a little more research into her books. I'm hoping to find something resources wise that's useful for the fellows who come across my own writings and ask for help. I write a lot about issues surrounding sexual abuse and encounter a lot of fellows looking for help with p**n addiction and LGBTQ++++ agenda driven issues.
Please pray for us.
i'm glad people are challenging that pro domestic abuse book by John Piper.
Excited about reading the book.
In some ways, doesn't Father, Son and Holy Spirit have different roles?
I love how she says she doesn't consider herself a complimentarian becuase that word is a new one and it speaks of a particular movement in a particular corner of the Christian community. That is how I feel. I have no problem at all with the Biblical nor the traditional mandate of male presbyters and episkopos- I see it more of men being called to these positions out of duty and less about them "getting to be" leaders. BUT- this movement that has been obsessed with female subordination in all things, and this obsession with patriarchy, is unbalanced, weird, and ahistorical. All throughout church history (at least in the Catholic and Orthodox spheres) there have been women religious, women saints, women theologians, who have had influence in the church, even if they were not presybyers or episkopos.
I am struck in a number of ways by this sort of discussion…
I find these “controversies” to be the sort that would melt away with but a bit of difficulty in our lives… these strike me as division born out of extreme comfort. Probably on both sides of the discussion. We have a low-cost Christianity and this allows for a hyper focus on minutiae.
I also think that men must do a better job of modeling Christ-like leadership and that, in many cases, that we elevate doctrinal accuracy above loving and respectful servant leadership. We need both but it can be easier to get the knowledge whereas the servant leader character is much more difficult to come by.
The male / female role debate might just disappear if men did love and lead and teach like the Lord would have us to do. I suspect that Godly women would truly line up behind Godly men were they to appear.
No.
This is to a minor point, but I want footnotes, not endnotes.
Weird how these guys are so intimidated and petty towards this feminine and intelligent sheologian who's just writing books and public speaking.
In regards to men's and women's study Bibles I think this is really just a symptom of a larger focus of the publishing houses worshiping Mamon.
Also as a complementarian I'm a little baffled by her distancing from the term given how she then goes on to articulate distinctly complementary ideas, maybe it's being used differently in her context and I'm confused by that. To me the things she has critiqued aren't consistent with what I would say fits the definition of men and women being complementary; the very point of complementarianism is to resist mysogyny/chauvinism on one hand while resisting the flattening out of egalitarianism on the other, while taking Scripture seriously on the topic.. Hoping Preston will go deeper on this topic as it seems Complementarian in the usage here really means Patriarchal and that's just not it.
"I dont want to use a title that is going to make everyone hate me". HAHAHA!
i want thank you you intellgent an aBILITY TO THINK THE LACK OF BACKING UP BLESS YOU AND YOURS
To me, every bit of her demeanor says she likes the controversy. She even laughs while saying she doesn’t like controversy. She has pride issues.
I’ve followed and read her stuff. To me, it’s men in her former church that keep the controversy going. I see them trolling her videos and posts, making up none sense that she clearly never says. She has shown how hurt she is at times, but I could see a person finally getting used to it.
Damn if anyone has problems its likely you. Petty jealousy most likely. People laugh when they are nervous.