The thing is Sayyids should not be treated differently to other tribes when they claim a certain lineage. The question is how does one prove he belongs to any lineage?. A better example than that of Prophet Adam (ع) is other contemporary tribes. If somebody belongs to a Pathan lineage for example, then there are Shar'ii mechanisms to determine as to whether he is one or not. These things include their fame as being Pathans in history, testimonies of historians, inherited items, family trees, local and national testimonies, the presence of ancestors' graves(if not lost), other emerging branches from forefathers with the same claim amongst others. These people are considered Pathan according to Islamic law. What would caste a doubt is the lack of these things. Why should Sayyids be treated differently? If a pathan is not able to prove his genealogy name by name for example, then he would still be accepted as a Pathan according to his fame as one in the country he lives in. The bottom line is if somebody's genealogy is verified by Shar'ii principles then it is not open to criticism for whatever reason. This is a shared concept within Islamic schools of law and sects. Even if tomorrow, there was an influx of false Pathans those principles should not change. The problem is for some reason, we are held to a different standard than others.
@@fuego670 Ja'far bin Isma'il bin Ja'far bin Imam Ali al-Hadi bin Imam Muhammad al-Jawad bin Imam Ali ar-Ridha bin Imam Musa al-Kadhim bin Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq bin Imam Muhammad al-Baqir bin Imam Zayn al-Abidin bin Imam al-Husayn bin Imam Ali (عليهم السلام)
Please read : 1) The answer to Bilal Philips was from the Islamic Law perspective. 2) Genealogical testing has its benefits. However, there is a whole separate discussion concerning it. In any case, Islamic law does not permit the use of such testing to disprove Sayyids who are unanimously accepted as such in their country/locality based on Islamic legal conditions. 3) Nor can genealogical testing be used to prove that a non-Sayyid family, not accepted by Shar'i conditions, are infact Sayyids. 4) Islamic Law is more lenient with regards to one proving one's ancestry and more stringent with regards to claims from families with no prior fame as Sayyids.
I am from India and my forefathers were Sayyids and we used to have the aima properties gifted to us as we were Sayyids. It is in record in the National Library in Kolkata before it used to be called the Imperial Library.
Saayids who are true descendants are gifted with tremendous resourceful knowledge that can make this world a better place to live in . Even in the modern times. However this gene pool is vulnerable and susceptible to corruption and wrong doing. The Shaitan is in all of us it can make us or break us. However, the bloodline was very strong and camouflaged until the British arrived in this subcontinent.So, they were kind of a dajjal ic force that worked on it to destroy this lineage. They were successful in creating many distortions and malpractices that led to the downfall of the Muslim in this part of this subcontinent.
The Question about the genealogy of Sayyids is akin to asking how many people can trace their lineage back to Prophet Adam. I think nobody can do that. Just as all humans are considered descendants of Adam unless proven otherwise, a person who has been recognized as a Sayyid for several generations is generally accepted as such unless there is evidence to the contrary. The focus should be on the principle that lineage claims, especially those upheld for 3 to 4 generations, are typically respected. It’s not practical or necessary to trace every individual’s genealogy back to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to validate their claim. As for the percentage of South Asians who can name their genealogy all the way back to the Prophet, it’s indeed a challenging task. Historical records and oral traditions vary greatly, and many genuine Sayyids may not have complete genealogical records due to the passage of time and historical events. The key point is to approach this topic with respect and understanding, recognizing the limitations of historical documentation and the importance of community and family traditions.
The thing is Sayyids should not be treated differently to other tribes when they claim a certain lineage. The question is how does one prove he belongs to any lineage?. A better example than that of Prophet Adam (ع) is other contemporary tribes. If somebody belongs to a Pathan lineage for example, then there are Shar'ii mechanisms to determine as to whether he is one or not. These things include their fame as being Pathans in history, testimonies of historians, inherited items, family trees, local and national testimonies, the presence of ancestors' graves(if not lost), other emerging branches from forefathers with the same claim amongst others. These people are considered Pathan according to Islamic law. What would caste a doubt is the lack of these things. Why should Sayyids be treated differently? If a pathan is not able to prove his genealogy name by name for example, then he would still be accepted as a Pathan according to his fame as one in the country he lives in. The bottom line is if somebody's genealogy is verified by Shar'ii principles then it is not open to criticism for whatever reason. This is a shared concept within Islamic schools of law and sects. Even if tomorrow, there was an influx of false Pathans those principles should not change. The problem is for some reason, we are held to a different standard than others.
It is very difficult to say. But I am from the family that has gifted with the knowledge of the Qur'an and certain part or very little parts of Mysticism and the nuances that help us to understand psychology, cosmology and applied physics.
@@alamshwab9065 Sallam. Please present why you believe it is weak based on his arguments. Thank you. He claimed that 99.99% of Sayyids can not show their lineage accurately to Rasulallah (ص) due to a huge number of them having claimed to be Sayyid 3-4 generations ago. It was demonstrated that simple verified attested paper records destroy this argument, fame as being Sayyids over centuries destroys this argument. Tell me where the argumentation was flawed.
Bilal Philip is talking absolutely Rubbish, and only those people who don't have a working brain or paid propagandists will only support him because his narrative is without any proof n logic.
The Question about the genealogy of Sayyids is akin to asking how many people can trace their lineage back to Prophet Adam. I think nobody can do that. Just as all humans are considered descendants of Adam unless proven otherwise, a person who has been recognized as a Sayyid for several generations is generally accepted as such unless there is evidence to the contrary. The focus should be on the principle that lineage claims, especially those upheld for 3 to 4 generations, are typically respected. It’s not practical or necessary to trace every individual’s genealogy back to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to validate their claim. As for the percentage of South Asians who can name their genealogy all the way back to the Prophet, it’s indeed a challenging task. Historical records and oral traditions vary greatly, and many genuine Sayyids may not have complete genealogical records due to the passage of time and historical events. The key point is to approach this topic with respect and understanding, recognizing the limitations of historical documentation and the importance of community and family traditions. Bilal is only being biased in this case, as majority of the Sayyids do not belong to his sect.
I personally have no beef against Any saying they are sayyids even if they can prove it my problem is that many use it to make thems3lves stand out from the rest which is not part of Islam. Abu lahab was the prophet's uncle but he was not righteous and ended up in hell. So being sayyif does not make any onr more special. This is like the Hindu caste system where some casts make themselves better than the rest
@@ohpeopleofthebook6679 Brother, I understand what you are saying takkabur (in its entirety) and fakhr (in its negative connotation) is not permissible in any circumstance. A sayyid by himself is not special, however, his connection is to the most special person in all of existence. We have many narrations which demonstrate that a Sayyid's respect is not for him himself pe se but it is for their ancestor Rasulallah (ص). The narrations for this are numerous. I hope this puts things in to perspective.
@@ohpeopleofthebook6679 An example would be like the mosque of Rasulallah (ص), it is honored as it has a connection to him ( ص), otherwise it is made of building materials like any other building. The building itself is not special, the special one is in the premises.
@@SadatAlAshrafInstitute my issue is that they use it against others like many will noy marry outside that cast amd they always say I am sayyids I am saying to stand out against others. That is not islam
@@SadatAlAshrafInstitute I dont know if you are a sayyid or not that is why you feel targeted? Some people say they are sayyid but have no evidence for it. If you can trace your lineage back all good and well but it should not affect the way you interact in your everyday life as a muslim. If you look in matrimonial websites for example muslims have become like the hindus by putting their caste there in the ads seem to be very important. When in Islam there should not be any distinction. I am sure our sisters or brothers have rejected very good marriage proposals because the prospect was not sayyid. So if you or who ever else claim you are sayyid would it not be better to follow the sunnah of the prophet saws than just using his lineage as lip service. The prophet saws never said to distinguish your self out from the rest amd even reject marriage becaise you are from my lineage. So dr bilal os coming at it from deen angle.
The thing is Sayyids should not be treated differently to other tribes when they claim a certain lineage. The question is how does one prove he belongs to any lineage?. A better example than that of Prophet Adam (ع) is other contemporary tribes. If somebody belongs to a Pathan lineage for example, then there are Shar'ii mechanisms to determine as to whether he is one or not. These things include their fame as being Pathans in history, testimonies of historians, inherited items, family trees, local and national testimonies, the presence of ancestors' graves(if not lost), other emerging branches from forefathers with the same claim amongst others. These people are considered Pathan according to Islamic law. What would caste a doubt is the lack of these things. Why should Sayyids be treated differently? If a pathan is not able to prove his genealogy name by name for example, then he would still be accepted as a Pathan according to his fame as one in the country he lives in.
The bottom line is if somebody's genealogy is verified by Shar'ii principles then it is not open to criticism for whatever reason. This is a shared concept within Islamic schools of law and sects.
Even if tomorrow, there was an influx of false Pathans those principles should not change. The problem is for some reason, we are held to a different standard than others.
Am from india and am sayyid with proof of lineage..alhumdulillah no one can deny my lineage becs it's authentic .
Which Sayyid lineage are you from?
@@SadatAlAshrafInstitute hazrath imam Ali al uraidhi bin jafer assadiq raziallahu anh (brother of imam moosa kazim ra).
@@fuego670 Ah Ali al-Uraydhi. Welcome brother.
@SadatAlAshrafInstitute thank u brother, which sayyid leanage r u from?
@@fuego670 Ja'far bin Isma'il bin Ja'far bin Imam Ali al-Hadi bin Imam Muhammad al-Jawad bin Imam Ali ar-Ridha bin Imam Musa al-Kadhim bin Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq bin Imam Muhammad al-Baqir bin Imam Zayn al-Abidin bin Imam al-Husayn bin Imam Ali (عليهم السلام)
Please read :
1) The answer to Bilal Philips was from the Islamic Law perspective.
2) Genealogical testing has its benefits. However, there is a whole separate discussion concerning it. In any case, Islamic law does not permit the use of such testing to disprove Sayyids who are unanimously accepted as such in their country/locality based on Islamic legal conditions.
3) Nor can genealogical testing be used to prove that a non-Sayyid family, not accepted by Shar'i conditions, are infact Sayyids.
4) Islamic Law is more lenient with regards to one proving one's ancestry and more stringent with regards to claims from families with no prior fame as Sayyids.
I am from India and my forefathers were Sayyids and we used to have the aima properties gifted to us as we were Sayyids. It is in record in the National Library in Kolkata before it used to be called the Imperial Library.
What do these people who are hateful have to do with libraries, Sayyid?
@@samsunnabi4453 Which family do you belong to ?
Saayids who are true descendants are gifted with tremendous resourceful knowledge that can make this world a better place to live in . Even in the modern times. However this gene pool is vulnerable and susceptible to corruption and wrong doing. The Shaitan is in all of us it can make us or break us. However, the bloodline was very strong and camouflaged until the British arrived in this subcontinent.So, they were kind of a dajjal ic force that worked on it to destroy this lineage. They were successful in creating many distortions and malpractices that led to the downfall of the Muslim in this part of this subcontinent.
The Question about the genealogy of Sayyids is akin to asking how many people can trace their lineage back to Prophet Adam. I think nobody can do that. Just as all humans are considered descendants of Adam unless proven otherwise, a person who has been recognized as a Sayyid for several generations is generally accepted as such unless there is evidence to the contrary.
The focus should be on the principle that lineage claims, especially those upheld for 3 to 4 generations, are typically respected. It’s not practical or necessary to trace every individual’s genealogy back to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to validate their claim.
As for the percentage of South Asians who can name their genealogy all the way back to the Prophet, it’s indeed a challenging task. Historical records and oral traditions vary greatly, and many genuine Sayyids may not have complete genealogical records due to the passage of time and historical events.
The key point is to approach this topic with respect and understanding, recognizing the limitations of historical documentation and the importance of community and family traditions.
The thing is Sayyids should not be treated differently to other tribes when they claim a certain lineage. The question is how does one prove he belongs to any lineage?. A better example than that of Prophet Adam (ع) is other contemporary tribes. If somebody belongs to a Pathan lineage for example, then there are Shar'ii mechanisms to determine as to whether he is one or not. These things include their fame as being Pathans in history, testimonies of historians, inherited items, family trees, local and national testimonies, the presence of ancestors' graves(if not lost), other emerging branches from forefathers with the same claim amongst others. These people are considered Pathan according to Islamic law. What would caste a doubt is the lack of these things. Why should Sayyids be treated differently? If a pathan is not able to prove his genealogy name by name for example, then he would still be accepted as a Pathan according to his fame as one in the country he lives in.
The bottom line is if somebody's genealogy is verified by Shar'ii principles then it is not open to criticism for whatever reason. This is a shared concept within Islamic schools of law and sects.
Even if tomorrow, there was an influx of false Pathans those principles should not change. The problem is for some reason, we are held to a different standard than others.
@@SadatAlAshrafInstitute True.
It is very difficult to say. But I am from the family that has gifted with the knowledge of the Qur'an and certain part or very little parts of Mysticism and the nuances that help us to understand psychology, cosmology and applied physics.
I think you should find out about your particular ancestral line from someone knowledgeable in your family. This would provide people with excuses.
I support Bilal Philip’s view and argument. The counter-argument presented here is weak and logically flawed in my opinion.
Wassalam
@@alamshwab9065 Sallam. Please present why you believe it is weak based on his arguments. Thank you.
He claimed that 99.99% of Sayyids can not show their lineage accurately to Rasulallah (ص) due to a huge number of them having claimed to be Sayyid 3-4 generations ago. It was demonstrated that simple verified attested paper records destroy this argument, fame as being Sayyids over centuries destroys this argument. Tell me where the argumentation was flawed.
Bilal Philip is talking absolutely Rubbish, and only those people who don't have a working brain or paid propagandists will only support him because his narrative is without any proof n logic.
The Question about the genealogy of Sayyids is akin to asking how many people can trace their lineage back to Prophet Adam. I think nobody can do that. Just as all humans are considered descendants of Adam unless proven otherwise, a person who has been recognized as a Sayyid for several generations is generally accepted as such unless there is evidence to the contrary.
The focus should be on the principle that lineage claims, especially those upheld for 3 to 4 generations, are typically respected. It’s not practical or necessary to trace every individual’s genealogy back to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to validate their claim.
As for the percentage of South Asians who can name their genealogy all the way back to the Prophet, it’s indeed a challenging task. Historical records and oral traditions vary greatly, and many genuine Sayyids may not have complete genealogical records due to the passage of time and historical events.
The key point is to approach this topic with respect and understanding, recognizing the limitations of historical documentation and the importance of community and family traditions.
Bilal is only being biased in this case, as majority of the Sayyids do not belong to his sect.
It is just a name. Nothing to do with lineage. Same with Sheikh
Evidence please, still waiting for evidence. Thanks.
I personally have no beef against Any saying they are sayyids even if they can prove it my problem is that many use it to make thems3lves stand out from the rest which is not part of Islam. Abu lahab was the prophet's uncle but he was not righteous and ended up in hell. So being sayyif does not make any onr more special. This is like the Hindu caste system where some casts make themselves better than the rest
@@ohpeopleofthebook6679 Brother, I understand what you are saying takkabur (in its entirety) and fakhr (in its negative connotation) is not permissible in any circumstance. A sayyid by himself is not special, however, his connection is to the most special person in all of existence. We have many narrations which demonstrate that a Sayyid's respect is not for him himself pe se but it is for their ancestor Rasulallah (ص). The narrations for this are numerous. I hope this puts things in to perspective.
@@ohpeopleofthebook6679 An example would be like the mosque of Rasulallah (ص), it is honored as it has a connection to him ( ص), otherwise it is made of building materials like any other building. The building itself is not special, the special one is in the premises.
@@SadatAlAshrafInstitute my issue is that they use it against others like many will noy marry outside that cast amd they always say I am sayyids I am saying to stand out against others. That is not islam
@@ohpeopleofthebook6679 I hope you understand my perspective better. You presented yourself as open minded and I respect that. Thanks a lot.
@@SadatAlAshrafInstitute I dont know if you are a sayyid or not that is why you feel targeted? Some people say they are sayyid but have no evidence for it. If you can trace your lineage back all good and well but it should not affect the way you interact in your everyday life as a muslim. If you look in matrimonial websites for example muslims have become like the hindus by putting their caste there in the ads seem to be very important. When in Islam there should not be any distinction.
I am sure our sisters or brothers have rejected very good marriage proposals because the prospect was not sayyid. So if you or who ever else claim you are sayyid would it not be better to follow the sunnah of the prophet saws than just using his lineage as lip service.
The prophet saws never said to distinguish your self out from the rest amd even reject marriage becaise you are from my lineage. So dr bilal os coming at it from deen angle.