I got a Jazz III from Andy Timmons at a concert and had never seen one as a kid. Burned through that pick in a week but found some more in a store (late 80s) and never looked back.
I use to Tortex Flow pick - nice combo of Jazz III point, 351 grip, and with the .73 gauge I prefer, is perf Still like a Jazz III from time to time, but these are Perf for me
I've also found that string gauge matters to me. I tend to go with a heavier pick when I go with lighter strings. I always thought of it as trying to maintain a constant feel of tension or resistance.
It's also worth mentioning that if you like the Jazz III size, but want less point, the Jazz II is more in-between, and the Jazz I is pretty much rounded.
I have a few packs of the II and the I. It's a weird little family. It was really the III that hit that magical balance the maybe hadn't quite existed prior.
then there is the evolving pick, like the one I use. It starts pointy then quickly rounds off. then after a week or two you really cant tell which is the true edge of the three angles. SUPER CHEAP
when I was getting into metal I changed lots of picks and realized the pointy ones are the ones I was most comfortable, and now with this video I realize I play with an edge out of habit, it just feel natural for my wrist, thanks for the realization!
TROY GRADY is truly trying to educate & properly inform the guitar community; I don't know anyone else who recommends skipping their own videos for the sake of being unimpeded with too much info. This channel has all my commendation.
Frankly we could stand to use it more than we do - but we're always swamped with improving the instructional stuff, and those videos just aren't often that exciting from an edu-tainment perspective. But helping people / instruction is really the business we're in, so it is what it is!
I've said it before a few times but man, Troy, the free content you've uploaded alone is outstanding and you've vastly changed the guitar-playing landscape. You've demystified so many concepts, thanks for your analytical approach and being willing to put it together in such a digestible manner. What's terribly underrated is your ridiculous ability to switch between every technique, picking style and equipment style with a degree of relaxation I've never witnessed before. PS: Pick chirp is such a curse when you hear it in a song. You'll never unhear it.
I gotta rep the FLOW picks here though. I've become a convert after being a Jazz 3 guy for years. Also now I have to look at my edge picking and try some rounder edged picks.
Flow are the shit! They take the best of two worlds! Love me the 88. mm Greenie! I can finally go fast like a jazz 3 but don't have to sacrifice my rhythm playing.
Just want to thank you for improve my technique a thousand fold. I didn't know about pickslanting until i watched your video on it. Thank you soo much!
This channel is my go-to for going way deeper than anyone else will go on the subtleties of guitar. But it REQUIRES going this deep to fully appreciate and refine your technique. Really appreciate this content, guys! 🤘🏻
(1) String gauge, (2) tuning, (3) guitar scale length, (4) if you hold the pick in a more fisted position or with extended thumb and index finger ["circular picking"] and/or other mechanics and techniques beyond the wrist, (5) how you anchor/or if you anchor also contribute to the equation. A master play can use practically anything and accommodate, then you enter the realm of Placebo. Pick material also affects tonal qualities and response, of course in conjunction and reliant on the 5 things listed.
I am definitely an edge picker. I have experimented with various shapes and thicknesses. I generally prefer fairly thick and pointy picks, but no matter what kind of pick I use I get a massive amount of chirp.
This is so cool and insightful! I have always used a regular Fender heavy 351 pick and it works perfect for my picking technique and I do not use much edge picking at all when I play….it is pretty flat against the string….just liked you described in this video.I wondered why the Jazz three never felt as good and you laid it all out in this video why that is….because I do not use much edge picking It is super cool and awesome that you figure this stuff out and share it with all us players. Great work, Troy!
I wish this information was available when I first started playing (40+ years ago). I've rode this roller coaster over and over trying to discover what pick and strings are the best combination for my playing. Troy is the first person I've seen that explains the science behind picking technique and pick design. For years I've been trying to design and make my own custom guitar picks to suite me and this solved the mystery for me. Thank you Troy for doing the research and answering all my questions!
A third factor that is very important is how fast the pick wares down and is subject to getting nicks. Great video Troy - accurate and concise, just like picking should be. 😎
This has been my main shower thought for the past few months, wondering if I could find something to help me alternate pick single-note-per-string-chords more comfortably. Go figure Troy brings me yet another fantastic and thoroughly explained answer so even I can understand it. Keep up the great work, guys!
IVe been a fingerpicking for 25 years, maybe used a pick for 10 mins in that time, but determined to learn flatpicking, been heading down that road for a couple months now and have been a little lost as to actual pick and how to hold it; so that's much for all this info, it was helpful for sure.
Nice! Flat picking is for sure prohibitively complicated in terms of all the variables. If there's one piece of advice I can give you, the most important first step is actually getting a smooth / fast tremolo. You can always slow down fast technique, but speeding up slow technique won't work if the technique is wrong. So "going fast" is often the only test we have for knowing if it's working. Don't try to build up or work up speed - just keep trying different picking motions until it starts to go fast right away, even if it's sloppy. Slow it down / clean it up later.
@@troygrady Thanks for the comment! For two months ive been on Facebook groups for Flatpicking and asking people for advice and nothing was as helpful as you vid, so thanks for making it. Cleared up a lot of subtle things that make a huge difference.
I was using the Petrucci J3 for years, but when I started playing Mandolin the I was catching a little too much, the same point with a rounded edge works perfect. Dunlop Flow shape is where I've landed, but then had Blue Chip make one with that shape but their material. Perfection.
Here's a technique that you didn't mention and one that I almost exclusively use - I use a 351 style pick (Dunlop Tortex .53) and play the rounded edge, not the pointy edge. I love both the feel and the tone. It's great for strumming, but I also use it for lead work. I've not run into anyone else who plays this way. There is way more contact with the pick against the string and has a great rich sound, especially with my Martin DC16 GTE and heavier gauged strings.
I've tried every pick under the sun and I have a pretty good ear for tone. For me, the Dunlop Primetone Jazz III XL .88 was the eventual (and clear) winner. The primetone material lasts forever. The Jazz III XL shape feels faster and more modern for my picking style, and the .88 struck the right tone/stiffness balance, the .73 being too "fwappy" and the 1.14 being too dark. This is paired with a trio of Martin mahogany backed acoustics. For electric, I can use this pick or just a nylon Jazz III max grip. Nice video Troy. Your exploration of right hand technique has been really really fascinating and illuminating. thanks for producing great content.
Somehow, the algorithm sent me down a “guitar pic” rabbit hole the other day… But this is the best one I’ve seen out of probably 15 or so. Really appreciate the in-depth explanations. New subscriber also
this is gold!! i have been using pointy picks for years because everyone said so including guthrie but that havent worked still but watching this video helped me a lot. I just played with a rounder pick and it works for me. IK its gonna take some getting used to but i think this should work and maybe when my wrist movement becomes smoother I will again try playing with a pointy pick maybe that will work. anyway thanks a lot. You are in every guitar players prayers who watches this channel. youve already made our lives easier.
I mostly use traditional jazz iii’s but always keep an assortment at my desk for optimization for what ever I’m playing. If I’m strumming big chords I’ll use a thin large and round nylon, if I’m alt picking or riffing, a straight jazz 3, and weirdly anything involving string skipping or sweeping I’ll opt for a large, but still pointed and think pick to give myself a little bit more of a forgiving edge so I don’t miss notes or flub the attack. there really isn’t any perfect pick, and the smart move is always using the best tool for the job.
You didn’t talk about pick rotation. I actually like to rotate the pick and avoid the pointy end when I want a darker tone instead of using a different pick.
For most guitar players this is one of those things you just never examine. A bit of discovering your own “sound”. That said, I admire Troy for dissecting pick attack and attempting to bring mechanics to the masses.
You can totally still do that discovery, it’s just a little easier when you know sort of what to expect. And of course the material choice, there’s a lifetime of that for those who want to experiment.
Cool, I found Jazz 3's way too tiny for me, I loved the Tortex for a long time then tried a Tortex Sharp, sanded sharper when needed as they dull over time, I prefer the way a super sharp tip almost hooks the string in a way and allows me to feel where my pick is better than a normal pick. I use the 1.14mm as its thick enough to not bend, but thin enough to not really chirp at all which gets very loud when using higher gain and a loud amplifier. The Tortex sharp is perfect, and the purple colour with the cute little tortoise on it is pretty iconic to me.
Need an episode on the 351, but rounded corner. Robben Ford, SRV, Larry Carlton, Reggie Young, Guthrie Trapp, and many other famous players. Why is this always overlooked?
Right on. It's cool that we can make these kinds of sophisticated choices at an intuitive level without always being completely conscious of why we do so.
I learned on a jazz pick. when I wanted more bite and dynamics I switched to a bigger pick, but I rarely use the pointed edge to pick the string. instead I hold the pointed edge facing up and pluck with the rounded edge. currently using Dunlop 71mm 471p gator grips. This was fascinating. been playing off & on 30 years. now I will go buy a bunch of different picks and experiment!
I'm a jazz player and my quest for the ultimate pick may be over. I discovered the Dunlop Kirk Hammett signature... lol... The purple ones with the V shape carved out on the top. I don't know why but this missing piece is magical! Thanks Kirk, even though I don't listen to you at all...
Really interesting and thought provoking! I’ve been using Chicken Picks Shredder 3, which is 3.5mm thick and maybe a little bigger than a jazz3… all edges are beveled and the point is a bit more rebated than a jazz3. It seems to have a nice compromise between tone, chirp reduction and ease of flow.
I play with a lot of edge and mostly downward pick slanting, the John Pertucci signature is the best pick for me (it's a slighly larger and harder jazz 3)
Awesome video, and I think the summary at the end for beginners who have no idea what they need is a great way to finish! Well done, once again, Troy and the gang at CTC!
I have been having a lot of chirping problems. I use a 1.14mm sharp. Didn't know why it was happening. This was a recent development. Been using the same picks for 25 plus years. Will try to a lighter gauge to see if that helps. This channel has taught me more about speed picking then any other source bar none.
Massive picks chirp the most, especially when edge picking. Bluegrass players use picks over 1mm but tend to play flat so they have less chirp. If you want pretty much zero chirp, you can try a Dunlop Nylon 1mm. Reasonably rigid and very low chirp.
This channel hipped me to Jazz III picks and I've found them to be strictly better than the .72s I was using for years, but for one technique - fast strumming. I'm talking about the kind where your fret hand is muting every string you don't want to sound while your pick hand is basically flailing with the occasional accented strum. Something like Cory Wong or Dave Matthews but like, 16th notes at 160bpm. The Jazz IIIs just feel like they're getting caught, like they're pulling too much string or something. For pretty much everything else though, they're great. They kinda enabled some things I couldn't play before! It might be a fair trade tbh.
Wish there was one pick for all. For electric, a hard pointy pick like a jazz III and its larger versions are great for speed but kinda suck for strumming. For acoustic though, hard thick picks , rounded or pointy, really dampen the acoustic volume, especially single note playing. Thin picks on acoustic make it sound louder and brighter, but suck for single note playing being they're too floppy. I've tried so many different picks over my life. I've tried pointy picks in the past numerous times but never could get on with them and , no matter how many pick styles I tried, I'd always wind up back with tha standard rounded edge style Dunlops , 1.5 - 2mm. But back earlier last year, I had this dream where I was using a jazzII! and I was flying all over the place! So I then figured, maybe the dream's telling me something and tried them again for real. Amazingly it worked and have been sticking with the Dunlop jazzIII and its larger sized variants and type of materials. Still kinda suck for strumming though, heh.
Wow, just subscribed a few minutes ago!! Love the nerdy physicist/scientific approach, but it all makes sooo much sense (science aficionado here). Thanks for all your posts, they certainly will be helping (I hope) to my picking technique. Cheers!
Thank you - Really! I am a C19 guitar starter and struggled a lot with my tremlolo picking. I bought ten different picks and and saw what you are talking about. So I went the pointy path with a Flow made of Ultex. My buddies always talking about the tonal impact of different OD pedals - I am totally into the "pick thing". And why? Because you are explaining it dead simple while be really deep within the topic. Double thumbs up!
Awesome video! It was always easier to pick my nose than to pick a pick, but thanks to your very informative video, I have stopped doing the former. And the loaf of bread thanks you as well... Cheers!
Troy, I'm hear from Ben eller and your videos are amazing. I'm actually a dunlop flow player now. I actually found they are a good blend of curved and pointy for how I play.
I’ve been an edge picker for most of my guitar life, but lately I am engaging my thumb more - in a fixed, static way - to flatten the pick against the strings. I just prefer the tone of it flatter on the high, uncoated strings. On the coated strings and for lower riffing I prefer the sound of the edge pick.
I have been using Fender 355 size picks (the big triangles) for over 60 years. What varies is the thickness and the composition (material) of the various picks I use (never the size or shape). I strike the strings in many different ways, and yes a lot of edge picking is part of that.
As of late, I've found that I play best using a rounded shoulder of the pick. Also, growing up, I gravitated towards tilting my hand up rather than down, and it still feels more comfortable to me than the usual down-slant approach.
@@codylucas4634 I don't know. It's not his black Jazz 3 small, pointy pick. This current one is called 'John Petrucci Flow". It's thick and pointy, but rounded on all sides and it's really smooth, creates less friction when playing.
@@markototev I think his latest pick is the Trinity which the same shape on all three points of the triangle. The one you speak of is his second one. His first was the ultex Jazz. The Trinity is meant to combine the best bits of his Jazz (the tip) and the best bit of his flow (the more rounded edges for comfort). Personally my favourite is the JP Ultex Jazz
I shave down the points of Tortex picks, usually Blue or Purple; with 100 grit sandpaper or an emory board. The ones they sell with a sharp point are way too long, so to get the exact aspect I want, I gotta make em myself. I also use the orange one for fluid strumming, though that one dosen't need any shaving
Amazingly, I suck at logic tests and brain teasers. It's my secret instructional superpower - if it's not explained really simply, I can't understand it! That's the clarity we're trying to bring to everyone else.
I want a hybrid pick , a 346 crossed with a jazz 3. In ultex as it has a nice grip to it. The 346 has a great secure feel in the hand but too rounded on the tip for high speed Jazz 3 and Jazz 3 XL are fantastic but I want more pick to hold onto . I’ve emailed jim Dunlop and requested they consider making a jazz3 XXL , XXXL and XXXXL ! You can only sow the seed
@@YaleCrane actually that did just recently catch my eye , but now you mention it again that sounds very similar to what I want to try. Only problem is sometimes you can’t get thinner ones.
As bass who picks , I tend to for 1.5ish primetone on flats well flat wound , and for metal I go for .60 tortex edge picking , now it makes sense why :)
Awesome video! I really like Dava picks, which have a variable gauge depending on how close to the tip you hold the pick. Thanks for the great breakdown!
The Dunlop flow picks are a good combo of round....I go back and forth between the John petrucci jazz nylon and gravity triangle picks. I love my picks thick and pointy
For me, it's picks that are pointed at a wider angle, such as Dunlop Flow and my favorite as of late, V-Picks Pointed. Has that pinpoint accuracy of a Jazzer but with a smoother glide for effortless playing.
For myself, I found the "Dunlop Flow" shape makes things easy, and so does the sharper "Big Stubby", but I hate the divot. I tried "Jeff Loomis's Sharp" picks, and I get caught all the time, even though I like how the sharp shape gets rid of a lot of the chirpiness. The best compromise I found was the "Jazz III XL Series". However, I didn't buy enough of these so I keep forgetting how awesome these picks are. This video was a good reminder.
I love the flows but they wear extremely quickly. The Petrucci jazz II’s ( the slightly larger black ones with his JP shield logo) are also good. But I finally found what I think are best of both. Chicken picks badazz III. I’ve used 3 picks over almost two years and they wear extremely slow. I play a lot too,
Very interesting “points” 😂 as a bebop jazz type player with a. Clean sound and full treble knob I am going for the closest to that Wes Montgomery thumb sound. Will never quite get there but slanting is the way and I tend to like teardrop picks. Dunlop is definitely easier to play fast but doesn’t let me dig in for the fatter sound. Wonder if there’s something I’m missing. I tend to hold my wrist off the bridge like a Gypsy player but don’t economy pick and after your wonderful video today about limiting one’s vocabulary I think you are exactly right- I owe it to myself to do economy picking as well. I’m sure I do at times. George benson does combine the two for sure.
When you say teardrop do you mean the slightly smaller ones that are more rounded than the more common "351" style? If so, that makes total sense for the preferences you're describing. The roundness will be higher there, so when you use that kind of pick with edge picking, you'll get more of that bass-oriented sound that you're looking for. It won't be as bass heavy as a thumb, of course. But as far as bass response with a pick, round and with edge picking is the way to get it.
I thought I was the only one who liked guitar picks and was interested in understanding them more, every time I tried to talk to other people I knew who played the guitar, they looked at me like "It's a guitar pick, man, either choose a thin one or a thicker one, duh"
I've been using the TIII (Tortex 3s) for about a year or so, and had difficulties changing strings through economy picking (especially upwards. I'm learning two-way pickslanting + economy) I thought going thicker would help me solve the problem, so i went from .73 to .88, but it didn't help. I've been trying going thinner and i'm getting decent results, so i'm gonna practice with the .60 for some time to see if it works
I recommend to people trying thicknpointy picks that they try something like a tortex 3 before jazz 3. The slick material and mini size scared mecaway from pointed picks for years. But those are sepatate traits.
There have been so many 'honorary doctorates' handed out for bullshitters. Troy Grady's extensive research actually deserves a doctorate for his detailed scientific studies. Thank you Troy!!!
Troy Grady: Well, Malmsteen's signature (Dunlop U.S.A)) picks are not asymmetry on both edges and each side has a tempered edge. It more looks like the same plectrum/pick 's been used for many years. I felt Malsteem's pick is good for Down slanting with a pick Tip and long run on circular picking style .
One thing I didn't see mentioned is about flexibility and pick gauge. For fast leads you don't want too flexible of a pick ( 1.0mm). A thinner gauge pick is more flexible and makes the strumming action easier, smoother and also sound less 'bity'. I like something in the 0.5 - .75mm range. The .75mm is my fav all round gauge because its also stiff enough for some lead work. Particularly, in country, folk and bluegrass you will play rhythm accomp most of the time and leads only part of the time,, so strumming should take priority.
I enjoy using an extra pointy pick in practice (Dunlop Big Stubby 2mm) it gives me good feedback when my fretting and picking hands are in tight synchronization.
The jazz iii max grip (small one) is what I use now. Suits me as I have smaller fingers and hands. They make a bigger version as well. I was using the petrucci picks for a while which were also good. The smaller jazz iii max grip just better for me.
Troy, I think for chirp the pick material is more a factor than thickness. I've got 2mm thick delrin picks that make less chirp than 2mm and also 1mm polycarbonate Big Stubbys. The polycarbonate picks are almost like hitting the string with a metal slide, you can do bird calls like in live versions of Free Bird with those things. Fun to play with...can't record with them.
For sure, different materials will chirp more or less. For our super nerd-out on this topic, you can watch nearly 17 minutes of picks chirping on strings here ( ua-cam.com/video/IdQ-Yn6k-To/v-deo.html ). Ha. But for any given material you choose, more massive picks and more edge picking will produce more chirp. I think that was what I was getting at here. This is true across all common pick materials we've tested.
Don't sleep on those Dunlop FLOW picks. White 1.5 flow picks are god tier for me. Has the same through-the-string feeling of a red jazz 3 but with a normal matte dunlop texture.
I wasted a tonne trying heaps of picks lately and settled on the slightly thinner 1.14 purple flow..perfection to me in terms of tone, feel and attack. I have to give those white 1.5s a go
Hey Troy! Love the channel. I'm interested in difference in pick materials. So many "substitutes" for tortoise shell, yet they all sound so vastly different! That makes no sense to me, and I was hoping you would make a video on it. Cheers!
We did several hours on this, along with just about every other pick-related concept you can think of. It was a little much, but it's a nice reference to have and we learned a lot. They're all part of our main instructional product, but you can see the chapter title list here ( troygrady.com/primer/choosing-a-pick/ ).
If I can add to the equation and this is such a deep rabbit hole but string lubrication may help in the cooperation of any pick and any player style- Just a thought
I've never been one for thinking about picks too much but I actually use a pick horizontal with the point towards my palm. I use picks similar to the nylon Dunlop 1mm. I feel like the point of a pick has me chocking on the strings so I guess I prefer a rounded style pick.
After playing with loads of picks, one of the things that makes the jazz 3 so good is the sharp bevel on the edges. The shape and size also are a big part of the ingredients
@@troygrady on my recent hunt for the ultimate plectrum , I thought I was getting close when buying jim Dunlop’s ultex sharp... but it was a bit of an anticlimax . I wondered why , then it clicked in my brain , it’s because there is no bevel. Tried the primetone jazz 3 with the slanted “worn in bevels “ too but not sure . I don’t think it beats the red jazz 3. The red jazz 3 just seems to have the right thickness and flex , the right shape and right size .... and the sharp bevel. Tried the flow pics but a bit too thick and too lightweight for me. I am keen to try some custom made picks that have been recommended to me by the pick channel and store “heavy repping “ BHL handmade the following models Ben eller custom pick : The wizard ergonomic (without slanting bevel) The wizard ergonomic (with slanting bevels) The wizard pro ( heavy duty version) The antagonist scalpel (extra thick pick with very sharp point ) made of ultem or other materials I like another British company called Zen The zen katana (costs £18 ) heavyrepping.com/shop/?_sort=date_desc
Troy is going to be lauded as a seriously influential guitar scientist in the annals of history. Awesome dude.
Love that description: guitar scientist. Agreed.
true
I got a Jazz III from Andy Timmons at a concert and had never seen one as a kid. Burned through that pick in a week but found some more in a store (late 80s) and never looked back.
anals
more like a guitar wanker lol
For those holding off on the Jazz III because it's just too tiny, there is an XL version I heavily recommend.
XL are the perfect size. Took me almost 30 years to work it out
is there an XXL version because xl is still way too small
I've used the XL for over 6 years straight, love it
I never knew....
I use to Tortex Flow pick - nice combo of Jazz III point, 351 grip, and with the .73 gauge I prefer, is perf
Still like a Jazz III from time to time, but these are Perf for me
I've also found that string gauge matters to me. I tend to go with a heavier pick when I go with lighter strings. I always thought of it as trying to maintain a constant feel of tension or resistance.
Good point
It's also worth mentioning that if you like the Jazz III size, but want less point, the Jazz II is more in-between, and the Jazz I is pretty much rounded.
I have a few packs of the II and the I. It's a weird little family. It was really the III that hit that magical balance the maybe hadn't quite existed prior.
then there is the evolving pick, like the one I use. It starts pointy then quickly rounds off. then after a week or two you really cant tell which is the true edge of the three angles. SUPER CHEAP
Just buy a chicken pick or something
Keep a foam sanding block in you guit case and sharpen that pick like I do
Celluloid picks suck
@@pbot6593 nah
@@fugginchuggin5604
Yah
This is high quality knowledge, no perfect pick for everything grab one that suits the song, or even the riff if you can
when I was getting into metal I changed lots of picks and realized the pointy ones are the ones I was most comfortable, and now with this video I realize I play with an edge out of habit, it just feel natural for my wrist, thanks for the realization!
TROY GRADY is truly trying to educate & properly inform the guitar community; I don't know anyone else who recommends skipping their own videos for the sake of being unimpeded with too much info. This channel has all my commendation.
Always trying to streamline!
I noticed and appreciated this, as well. I really appreciate how Troy uses UA-cam well, rather than "doing UA-cam".
Frankly we could stand to use it more than we do - but we're always swamped with improving the instructional stuff, and those videos just aren't often that exciting from an edu-tainment perspective. But helping people / instruction is really the business we're in, so it is what it is!
I've said it before a few times but man, Troy, the free content you've uploaded alone is outstanding and you've vastly changed the guitar-playing landscape. You've demystified so many concepts, thanks for your analytical approach and being willing to put it together in such a digestible manner.
What's terribly underrated is your ridiculous ability to switch between every technique, picking style and equipment style with a degree of relaxation I've never witnessed before.
PS: Pick chirp is such a curse when you hear it in a song. You'll never unhear it.
This ended being an interesting explanation of why I like the picks that I like. I use a lot of edge, so I gravitate towards pointy picks.
That’s it - the “modern” pick, with heft and bevel and point, is for the most part an edge picking tool
I gotta rep the FLOW picks here though. I've become a convert after being a Jazz 3 guy for years. Also now I have to look at my edge picking and try some rounder edged picks.
Flow are the shit! They take the best of two worlds! Love me the 88. mm Greenie! I can finally go fast like a jazz 3 but don't have to sacrifice my rhythm playing.
I wish they could be a bit more durable, but very cool picks, buttttt try also the Jazz III XL version, it's the best for me...@@eldirtyfaygo5395
Just want to thank you for improve my technique a thousand fold.
I didn't know about pickslanting until i watched your video on it.
Thank you soo much!
This channel is my go-to for going way deeper than anyone else will go on the subtleties of guitar. But it REQUIRES going this deep to fully appreciate and refine your technique. Really appreciate this content, guys! 🤘🏻
(1) String gauge, (2) tuning, (3) guitar scale length, (4) if you hold the pick in a more fisted position or with extended thumb and index finger ["circular picking"] and/or other mechanics and techniques beyond the wrist, (5) how you anchor/or if you anchor also contribute to the equation. A master play can use practically anything and accommodate, then you enter the realm of Placebo. Pick material also affects tonal qualities and response, of course in conjunction and reliant on the 5 things listed.
I like my placebo pick!
I am definitely an edge picker. I have experimented with various shapes and thicknesses. I generally prefer fairly thick and pointy picks, but no matter what kind of pick I use I get a massive amount of chirp.
Have you tried plectrums with different material? Chirp more common with Ultex
This is so cool and insightful! I have always used a regular Fender heavy 351 pick and it works perfect for my picking technique and I do not use much edge picking at all when I play….it is pretty flat against the string….just liked you described in this video.I wondered why the Jazz three never felt as good and you laid it all out in this video why that is….because I do not use much edge picking It is super cool and awesome that you figure this stuff out and share it with all us players. Great work, Troy!
Yep I can attest that you are almost perfectly flat most of the time!
@@troygrady this has seriously changed the way i play.. thanks dude.. i was wondering what pick works good for sweep picking??
@@sirspongadoodleFrank Gambale uses the 346 heavy
I wish this information was available when I first started playing (40+ years ago). I've rode this roller coaster over and over trying to discover what pick and strings are the best combination for my playing. Troy is the first person I've seen that explains the science behind picking technique and pick design. For years I've been trying to design and make my own custom guitar picks to suite me and this solved the mystery for me. Thank you Troy for doing the research and answering all my questions!
Nice! I edge pick. My favorite pick it Gravity Gold Series Mini Sunrise 1.0mm
It's pointy.
A third factor that is very important is how fast the pick wares down and is subject to getting nicks. Great video Troy - accurate and concise, just like picking should be. 😎
What an underestimated and overlooked issue by zillions of players. Thanks for creating awareness.
This channel has been an invaluable source of information. Thank you for your hard work.
This has been my main shower thought for the past few months, wondering if I could find something to help me alternate pick single-note-per-string-chords more comfortably. Go figure Troy brings me yet another fantastic and thoroughly explained answer so even I can understand it. Keep up the great work, guys!
This is the first video I've come across that nicely explains pick types without defaulting to "choose what feels right" mentality. Thank you!
IVe been a fingerpicking for 25 years, maybe used a pick for 10 mins in that time, but determined to learn flatpicking, been heading down that road for a couple months now and have been a little lost as to actual pick and how to hold it; so that's much for all this info, it was helpful for sure.
Nice! Flat picking is for sure prohibitively complicated in terms of all the variables. If there's one piece of advice I can give you, the most important first step is actually getting a smooth / fast tremolo. You can always slow down fast technique, but speeding up slow technique won't work if the technique is wrong. So "going fast" is often the only test we have for knowing if it's working. Don't try to build up or work up speed - just keep trying different picking motions until it starts to go fast right away, even if it's sloppy. Slow it down / clean it up later.
@@troygrady Thanks for the comment! For two months ive been on Facebook groups for Flatpicking and asking people for advice and nothing was as helpful as you vid, so thanks for making it. Cleared up a lot of subtle things that make a huge difference.
I like the Gravity sunrise pick in 1.5 mm. I believe they are acrylic. The attack is awesome.
I was using the Petrucci J3 for years, but when I started playing Mandolin the I was catching a little too much, the same point with a rounded edge works perfect. Dunlop Flow shape is where I've landed, but then had Blue Chip make one with that shape but their material. Perfection.
If y'all haven't tried the Dunlop "FLOW" pick yet it is awesome!
You can pick AND strum with it!!!
Jazz III is my go-to, but I like a rounder, traditional pick for acoustic strumming.
Here's a technique that you didn't mention and one that I almost exclusively use - I use a 351 style pick (Dunlop Tortex .53) and play the rounded edge, not the pointy edge. I love both the feel and the tone. It's great for strumming, but I also use it for lead work. I've not run into anyone else who plays this way. There is way more contact with the pick against the string and has a great rich sound, especially with my Martin DC16 GTE and heavier gauged strings.
I've tried every pick under the sun and I have a pretty good ear for tone. For me, the Dunlop Primetone Jazz III XL .88 was the eventual (and clear) winner. The primetone material lasts forever. The Jazz III XL shape feels faster and more modern for my picking style, and the .88 struck the right tone/stiffness balance, the .73 being too "fwappy" and the 1.14 being too dark. This is paired with a trio of Martin mahogany backed acoustics. For electric, I can use this pick or just a nylon Jazz III max grip. Nice video Troy. Your exploration of right hand technique has been really really fascinating and illuminating. thanks for producing great content.
The ultimate channel for technical aspects of picking.
Somehow, the algorithm sent me down a “guitar pic” rabbit hole the other day… But this is the best one I’ve seen out of probably 15 or so. Really appreciate the in-depth explanations.
New subscriber also
Awesome, thanks!
this is gold!! i have been using pointy picks for years because everyone said so including guthrie but that havent worked still but watching this video helped me a lot. I just played with a rounder pick and it works for me. IK its gonna take some getting used to but i think this should work and maybe when my wrist movement becomes smoother I will again try playing with a pointy pick maybe that will work. anyway thanks a lot. You are in every guitar players prayers who watches this channel. youve already made our lives easier.
I mostly use traditional jazz iii’s but always keep an assortment at my desk for optimization for what ever I’m playing. If I’m strumming big chords I’ll use a thin large and round nylon, if I’m alt picking or riffing, a straight jazz 3, and weirdly anything involving string skipping or sweeping I’ll opt for a large, but still pointed and think pick to give myself a little bit more of a forgiving edge so I don’t miss notes or flub the attack. there really isn’t any perfect pick, and the smart move is always using the best tool for the job.
You didn’t talk about pick rotation. I actually like to rotate the pick and avoid the pointy end when I want a darker tone instead of using a different pick.
For most guitar players this is one of those things you just never examine. A bit of discovering your own “sound”. That said, I admire Troy for dissecting pick attack and attempting to bring mechanics to the masses.
You can totally still do that discovery, it’s just a little easier when you know sort of what to expect. And of course the material choice, there’s a lifetime of that for those who want to experiment.
Cool, I found Jazz 3's way too tiny for me, I loved the Tortex for a long time then tried a Tortex Sharp, sanded sharper when needed as they dull over time, I prefer the way a super sharp tip almost hooks the string in a way and allows me to feel where my pick is better than a normal pick. I use the 1.14mm as its thick enough to not bend, but thin enough to not really chirp at all which gets very loud when using higher gain and a loud amplifier. The Tortex sharp is perfect, and the purple colour with the cute little tortoise on it is pretty iconic to me.
What an amazing video! I've been playing guitar for almost 20 years now, and I learned so much from this video!
Need an episode on the 351, but rounded corner. Robben Ford, SRV, Larry Carlton, Reggie Young, Guthrie Trapp, and many other famous players. Why is this always overlooked?
Quickly becoming addicted, every video is fantastic
You have confirmed all my suspicions about my preference towards edge picking and, thus, using pointy picks. Pretty cool!
Right on. It's cool that we can make these kinds of sophisticated choices at an intuitive level without always being completely conscious of why we do so.
@@troygrady indeed! Well said
I learned on a jazz pick. when I wanted more bite and dynamics I switched to a bigger pick, but I rarely use the pointed edge to pick the string. instead I hold the pointed edge facing up and pluck with the rounded edge. currently using Dunlop 71mm 471p gator grips. This was fascinating. been playing off & on 30 years. now I will go buy a bunch of different picks and experiment!
It's a never-ending journey!
I'm a jazz player and my quest for the ultimate pick may be over. I discovered the Dunlop Kirk Hammett signature... lol...
The purple ones with the V shape carved out on the top. I don't know why but this missing piece is magical!
Thanks Kirk, even though I don't listen to you at all...
I use the Dunlop big stubbys 2-3mm. I also drill about an 8 mm hole in the center
Really interesting and thought provoking!
I’ve been using Chicken Picks Shredder 3, which is 3.5mm thick and maybe a little bigger than a jazz3… all edges are beveled and the point is a bit more rebated than a jazz3.
It seems to have a nice compromise between tone, chirp reduction and ease of flow.
This video feels like one of those VHS tapes the substitute teacher would put on in class in the 90s and I love that
Holy shit! That Clip of Eric Johnson is soooo awesome.
I play with a lot of edge and mostly downward pick slanting, the John Pertucci signature is the best pick for me (it's a slighly larger and harder jazz 3)
My favourite too, although I can't decide if his Flow pick is best. At moment I am with the JP Jazz
I thinkg dunlop's stubby 3mm are the best picks ever devised, they are pointy and slide pretty well. Serves both styles
The stubbies are great but the Achilles heel is the material - it chips more than wears. Once it gets a nick it loses that glassy feel.
I love the JazzIII stubby 3.0mm
Try the Dunlop Flow John Petrucci model, really is the best of both worlds, especially once worn in a bit to your specific picking angle
Awesome video, and I think the summary at the end for beginners who have no idea what they need is a great way to finish! Well done, once again, Troy and the gang at CTC!
Yep this is intended as an intro that somehow experienced players and complete beginners can both watch. It was tricky!
I have been having a lot of chirping problems. I use a 1.14mm sharp. Didn't know why it was happening. This was a recent development. Been using the same picks for 25 plus years. Will try to a lighter gauge to see if that helps. This channel has taught me more about speed picking then any other source bar none.
Massive picks chirp the most, especially when edge picking. Bluegrass players use picks over 1mm but tend to play flat so they have less chirp. If you want pretty much zero chirp, you can try a Dunlop Nylon 1mm. Reasonably rigid and very low chirp.
This channel hipped me to Jazz III picks and I've found them to be strictly better than the .72s I was using for years, but for one technique - fast strumming. I'm talking about the kind where your fret hand is muting every string you don't want to sound while your pick hand is basically flailing with the occasional accented strum. Something like Cory Wong or Dave Matthews but like, 16th notes at 160bpm. The Jazz IIIs just feel like they're getting caught, like they're pulling too much string or something. For pretty much everything else though, they're great. They kinda enabled some things I couldn't play before! It might be a fair trade tbh.
Wish there was one pick for all. For electric, a hard pointy pick like a jazz III and its larger versions are great for speed but kinda suck for strumming. For acoustic though, hard thick picks , rounded or pointy, really dampen the acoustic volume, especially single note playing. Thin picks on acoustic make it sound louder and brighter, but suck for single note playing being they're too floppy.
I've tried so many different picks over my life. I've tried pointy picks in the past numerous times but never could get on with them and , no matter how many pick styles I tried, I'd always wind up back with tha standard rounded edge style Dunlops , 1.5 - 2mm.
But back earlier last year, I had this dream where I was using a jazzII! and I was flying all over the place! So I then figured, maybe the dream's telling me something and tried them again for real. Amazingly it worked and have been sticking with the Dunlop jazzIII and its larger sized variants and type of materials. Still kinda suck for strumming though, heh.
Wow, just subscribed a few minutes ago!! Love the nerdy physicist/scientific approach, but it all makes sooo much sense (science aficionado here). Thanks for all your posts, they certainly will be helping (I hope) to my picking technique. Cheers!
Thank you! Evidence-based investigation is our thing.
Thank you - Really! I am a C19 guitar starter and struggled a lot with my tremlolo picking. I bought ten different picks and and saw what you are talking about. So I went the pointy path with a Flow made of Ultex. My buddies always talking about the tonal impact of different OD pedals - I am totally into the "pick thing". And why? Because you are explaining it dead simple while be really deep within the topic. Double thumbs up!
I've used my fair share of black Dunlop nylon standard picks back in the *coughs* I still like having them around.
The Fredrik Thordendal picks are awesome.
Awesome video! It was always easier to pick my nose than to pick a pick, but thanks to your very informative video, I have stopped doing the former. And the loaf of bread thanks you as well... Cheers!
Troy, I'm hear from Ben eller and your videos are amazing. I'm actually a dunlop flow player now. I actually found they are a good blend of curved and pointy for how I play.
I’ve been an edge picker for most of my guitar life, but lately I am engaging my thumb more - in a fixed, static way - to flatten the pick against the strings. I just prefer the tone of it flatter on the high, uncoated strings. On the coated strings and for lower riffing I prefer the sound of the edge pick.
I have been using grey dunlop .73 picks for acoustic and a JD Jazz 3 on electric also 12 gauge for over 20 years.
I have been using Fender 355 size picks (the big triangles) for over 60 years. What varies is the thickness and the composition (material) of the various picks I use (never the size or shape). I strike the strings in many different ways, and yes a lot of edge picking is part of that.
As of late, I've found that I play best using a rounded shoulder of the pick. Also, growing up, I gravitated towards tilting my hand up rather than down, and it still feels more comfortable to me than the usual down-slant approach.
I need to stock up on Petrucci's current signature pick, it's by far my favourite and the one that feels most natural to me.
Is that the ultex one inspired by andy james' but smaller? I like that one too. I go back and forth between his and andys
@@codylucas4634 I don't know. It's not his black Jazz 3 small, pointy pick. This current one is called 'John Petrucci Flow". It's thick and pointy, but rounded on all sides and it's really smooth, creates less friction when playing.
@@markototev I think his latest pick is the Trinity which the same shape on all three points of the triangle. The one you speak of is his second one. His first was the ultex Jazz.
The Trinity is meant to combine the best bits of his Jazz (the tip) and the best bit of his flow (the more rounded edges for comfort).
Personally my favourite is the JP Ultex Jazz
@@markototev you can get the same pick but with grip if you order the Dunlop Flow Standard 2.0.
Wow! this video is exactly what I have been looking for
I shave down the points of Tortex picks, usually Blue or Purple; with 100 grit sandpaper or an emory board. The ones they sell with a sharp point are way too long, so to get the exact aspect I want, I gotta make em myself.
I also use the orange one for fluid strumming, though that one dosen't need any shaving
You are the Mr. Spock of internet guitar instruction--You are--LOGICAL, Captain
Amazingly, I suck at logic tests and brain teasers. It's my secret instructional superpower - if it's not explained really simply, I can't understand it! That's the clarity we're trying to bring to everyone else.
I want a hybrid pick , a 346 crossed with a jazz 3.
In ultex as it has a nice grip to it.
The 346 has a great secure feel in the hand but too rounded on the tip for high speed
Jazz 3 and Jazz 3 XL are fantastic but I want more pick to hold onto .
I’ve emailed jim Dunlop and requested they consider making a jazz3 XXL , XXXL and XXXXL ! You can only sow the seed
Check out the John Petrucci Trinity pick
@@YaleCrane actually that did just recently catch my eye , but now you mention it again that sounds very similar to what I want to try. Only problem is sometimes you can’t get thinner ones.
As bass who picks , I tend to for 1.5ish primetone on flats well flat wound , and for metal I go for .60 tortex edge picking , now it makes sense why :)
Awesome video! I really like Dava picks, which have a variable gauge depending on how close to the tip you hold the pick. Thanks for the great breakdown!
The Dunlop flow picks are a good combo of round....I go back and forth between the John petrucci jazz nylon and gravity triangle picks. I love my picks thick and pointy
For me, it's picks that are pointed at a wider angle, such as Dunlop Flow and my favorite as of late, V-Picks Pointed. Has that pinpoint accuracy of a Jazzer but with a smoother glide for effortless playing.
For myself, I found the "Dunlop Flow" shape makes things easy, and so does the sharper "Big Stubby", but I hate the divot. I tried "Jeff Loomis's Sharp" picks, and I get caught all the time, even though I like how the sharp shape gets rid of a lot of the chirpiness.
The best compromise I found was the "Jazz III XL Series". However, I didn't buy enough of these so I keep forgetting how awesome these picks are. This video was a good reminder.
I love the flows but they wear extremely quickly. The Petrucci jazz II’s ( the slightly larger black ones with his JP shield logo) are also good. But I finally found what I think are best of both. Chicken picks badazz III. I’ve used 3 picks over almost two years and they wear extremely slow. I play a lot too,
Very interesting “points” 😂 as a bebop jazz type player with a. Clean sound and full treble knob I am going for the closest to that Wes Montgomery thumb sound. Will never quite get there but slanting is the way and I tend to like teardrop picks. Dunlop is definitely easier to play fast but doesn’t let me dig in for the fatter sound. Wonder if there’s something I’m missing. I tend to hold my wrist off the bridge like a Gypsy player but don’t economy pick and after your wonderful video today about limiting one’s vocabulary I think you are exactly right- I owe it to myself to do economy picking as well. I’m sure I do at times. George benson does combine the two for sure.
When you say teardrop do you mean the slightly smaller ones that are more rounded than the more common "351" style? If so, that makes total sense for the preferences you're describing. The roundness will be higher there, so when you use that kind of pick with edge picking, you'll get more of that bass-oriented sound that you're looking for. It won't be as bass heavy as a thumb, of course. But as far as bass response with a pick, round and with edge picking is the way to get it.
I thought I was the only one who liked guitar picks and was interested in understanding them more, every time I tried to talk to other people I knew who played the guitar, they looked at me like "It's a guitar pick, man, either choose a thin one or a thicker one, duh"
The Kirk Hammett jazz 3 pick is Amazing!
I've been using the TIII (Tortex 3s) for about a year or so, and had difficulties changing strings through economy picking (especially upwards. I'm learning two-way pickslanting + economy) I thought going thicker would help me solve the problem, so i went from .73 to .88, but it didn't help. I've been trying going thinner and i'm getting decent results, so i'm gonna practice with the .60 for some time to see if it works
Wow. Great video! Great analysis. Wish I had this when i was a beginner!
You have such a great channel Troy. I love everything you do.!
I recommend to people trying thicknpointy picks that they try something like a tortex 3 before jazz 3. The slick material and mini size scared mecaway from pointed picks for years. But those are sepatate traits.
There have been so many 'honorary doctorates' handed out for bullshitters. Troy Grady's extensive research actually deserves a doctorate for his detailed scientific studies. Thank you Troy!!!
Troy Grady: Well, Malmsteen's signature (Dunlop U.S.A)) picks are not asymmetry on both edges and each side has a tempered edge. It more looks like the same plectrum/pick 's been used for many years.
I felt Malsteem's pick is good for Down slanting with a pick Tip and long run on circular picking style .
I like thin and pointy :) gives me the bright tone I like. I play metal btw.
Dont like the "dull tone" of thicker picks.
If this video was released years before, it would save 2 years of my life trying to figure out which pick to use
I love love love pointy Dunlop flows but I keep going back to fender confetti picks for looser hendrixy or fruciante type playing.
One thing I didn't see mentioned is about flexibility and pick gauge. For fast leads you don't want too flexible of a pick ( 1.0mm). A thinner gauge pick is more flexible and makes the strumming action easier, smoother and also sound less 'bity'. I like something in the 0.5 - .75mm range. The .75mm is my fav all round gauge because its also stiff enough for some lead work. Particularly, in country, folk and bluegrass you will play rhythm accomp most of the time and leads only part of the time,, so strumming should take priority.
Paul gilbert would disagree
@@Moyjgc101 Which part would he disagree on? Btw, im a fan of Gilbert. He rocks!
i also like holding the 351 medium/thin pick the other way around using the bottom part for the strings
I enjoy using an extra pointy pick in practice (Dunlop Big Stubby 2mm) it gives me good feedback when my fretting and picking hands are in tight synchronization.
Incredibly helpful video. Thank you!
The jazz iii max grip (small one) is what I use now. Suits me as I have smaller fingers and hands. They make a bigger version as well. I was using the petrucci picks for a while which were also good. The smaller jazz iii max grip just better for me.
Dunlop iii is the best pick for me! Im used to it
Troy, I think for chirp the pick material is more a factor than thickness. I've got 2mm thick delrin picks that make less chirp than 2mm and also 1mm polycarbonate Big Stubbys. The polycarbonate picks are almost like hitting the string with a metal slide, you can do bird calls like in live versions of Free Bird with those things. Fun to play with...can't record with them.
For sure, different materials will chirp more or less. For our super nerd-out on this topic, you can watch nearly 17 minutes of picks chirping on strings here ( ua-cam.com/video/IdQ-Yn6k-To/v-deo.html ). Ha. But for any given material you choose, more massive picks and more edge picking will produce more chirp. I think that was what I was getting at here. This is true across all common pick materials we've tested.
Troy Grady deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.
I cut and file the edge of my Dunlop even further to get extremely sharp and narrow pick than the jazz3, thickness 1mm.
Don't sleep on those Dunlop FLOW picks. White 1.5 flow picks are god tier for me. Has the same through-the-string feeling of a red jazz 3 but with a normal matte dunlop texture.
I wasted a tonne trying heaps of picks lately and settled on the slightly thinner 1.14 purple flow..perfection to me in terms of tone, feel and attack. I have to give those white 1.5s a go
Hey Troy! Love the channel. I'm interested in difference in pick materials. So many "substitutes" for tortoise shell, yet they all sound so vastly different! That makes no sense to me, and I was hoping you would make a video on it. Cheers!
We did several hours on this, along with just about every other pick-related concept you can think of. It was a little much, but it's a nice reference to have and we learned a lot. They're all part of our main instructional product, but you can see the chapter title list here ( troygrady.com/primer/choosing-a-pick/ ).
@Troy Grady Didn't know you had a website! Thank you for the science and research on these things. Learning alot. Cheers!
If I can add to the equation and this is such a deep rabbit hole but string lubrication may help in the cooperation of any pick and any player style- Just a thought
YOU’RE THE BEST, TROY!
I've never been one for thinking about picks too much but I actually use a pick horizontal with the point towards my palm. I use picks similar to the nylon Dunlop 1mm. I feel like the point of a pick has me chocking on the strings so I guess I prefer a rounded style pick.
Wow! great job!
After playing with loads of picks, one of the things that makes the jazz 3 so good is the sharp bevel on the edges. The shape and size also are a big part of the ingredients
The bevel! For sure
@@troygrady on my recent hunt for the ultimate plectrum , I thought I was getting close when buying jim Dunlop’s ultex sharp... but it was a bit of an anticlimax . I wondered why , then it clicked in my brain , it’s because there is no bevel. Tried the primetone jazz 3 with the slanted “worn in bevels “ too but not sure . I don’t think it beats the red jazz 3. The red jazz 3 just seems to have the right thickness and flex , the right shape and right size .... and the sharp bevel. Tried the flow pics but a bit too thick and too lightweight for me.
I am keen to try some custom made picks that have been recommended to me by the pick channel and store “heavy repping “
BHL handmade the following models
Ben eller custom pick :
The wizard ergonomic (without slanting bevel)
The wizard ergonomic (with slanting bevels)
The wizard pro ( heavy duty version)
The antagonist scalpel (extra thick pick with very sharp point ) made of ultem or other materials
I like another British company called Zen
The zen katana (costs £18 )
heavyrepping.com/shop/?_sort=date_desc